No, after you.

[86GSXR]

Having been in a period of enforced inaction due to an operation, I've had the good fortune to be able to catch up on some quiet reading time. At the moment I've nearly finished reading Backblocks America, Jo and Gareth Morgan's excellent account of their biking adventure around the US, Canada, and Mexico.

One chapter that NZ lawmakers could really take heed of and entitled 'No, after you', was particulary pertinent, and having driven around most of the US myself, made me very nostalgic for the good ol US common sense approach to driving. The Yanks may have their faults, but they are polite and tend not to treat all drivers as idiots.

Here's a few examples.

One thing we noticed right away about biking in the US - the home of the automobile - is that motorist behaviour is infinitely more courteous than it is back home. While the traffic tends to move a lot faster than is permitted in New Zealand there's a notable lack of aggression in everything they do.

Then again, we've noticed the same thing in most of the countries we've travelled in.

The thing that America has in common with Germany, say, or Bulgaria and that sets it apart from New Zealand is that there is far less regulation of driver behaviour. Drivers are expected to be responsible for their own actions and dependant upon the courtesey of others. Rather than relying on a rule to tell them how to behave, they are guided by the principle of cooperation.

It's a clever discretion of the rule makers. Regulatory latitude gives rise to a 'do as you would be done by' ethos.

Drivers have no choice but to make decisions themselves and, surprise, surprise, they rise to the challenge. It turns out there's no need for a rule for every situation. People work it out among themselves.

Better yet, courtesy - like king of the road aggression - is infectious and prevails in every situation drivers encounter.

There were plenty of examples of how lightly the hand of regulation sits - and how much faith the regulator has in the capacity of individuals to make intelligent choices for themselves. If you're at a red light but you can turn to the right (left in NZ) without danger, you can go ahead and do it. On the open road a speed limit can be exceeded by up to 15 kmh without placing you at risk of receiving a ticket.

This convention had us stumped until, sick of being passed while riding piously at the limit, Jo decided to interrogate a radar gunning cop about how the system worked. Our Kiwi paranoia naturally had us thinking every mile per hour over the limit would see us stung a tidy sum in fines.

'Well little lady' CHiPs responded 'over here we like to see you get from A to B as quickly as possible. So as long as the traffic is orderly we don't worry too much about the speed. Way we figure it, highways are supposed to be of service to the travelling public. I'm just after the maniacs'.

Jo congatulated him on the sanity of this approach to law enforcement and made to leave.

'Hey!' he called after her. 'Make sure you keep up with the traffic. You'll be safe that way'.

The only time Jo did get pulled up was in Montana, by a cop who saw rain a coming and was worried that she didn't have her wet weather gear on.

'You'll get five minutes down the road' he told her, 'then them clouds are going to open right up. You'll be soaked through'.

He finished by asking if she'd like some maps of the area! Does this seem a long way from cop behaviour in New Zealand?

Motorcyclists in many states of America are free to choose whether or not to wear helmets. We wore ours most of the time but it was great having the right to shed them every now and then at our discretion and feel the wind in our hair. Remember when it was like that in New Zealand? That was before we sank into a swill of smothering maternalistic supervision.

Stifling over-regulation such as the laws that prevail in New Zealand creates automatons; morons who need rules and regulations to determine their behaviour for them. People lose the skills that the feedom to make decisions fosters. Sure, lower speeds lower the road toll - but so would banning driving altogether.

This is not to say the power of the state in America is not there, hovering in the background. Their road code has fewer rules but it also has far higher fines - and there is also the fear of being sued if you screw up. Responsibility is very much on individuals - the law treats them almost as though they're grown ups.

Marvelous, and almost makes me feel like doing 106 :yes:

[Blackadda]

Drivers are expected to be responsible for their own actions and dependant upon the courtesey of others.

Wouldn't it be nice. I think the problem we will have is turning back the clock to rid ourselves of the idiots who think the open road is Daytona speedway and who think they ARE the only ones on the road!

[quote=86GSXR;1129264] He finished by asking if she'd like some maps of the area! Does this seem a long way from cop behaviour in New Zealand? [quote]

In saying that, I got a ticket yesterday (doing 116 on an open road, light traffic, rural, a little damp) and the very nice lady cop said she would make it 115 which takes me down a level. Thanks nice lady cop.

And I didn't think I was speeding, most modern cars cruise at 110 and feel like they are standing still?

[janno]

Wow! Sounds like Utopia!

But I'd feel completely naked without a helmet - about as comfortable as riding my sickle in jandals . . . I've got visions of a skull cracking like an egg on the pavement.

Were the roads a lot different from NZ though? As in less windy and cramped? Most of Unzuds roads are like goat tracks - could that have something to do with lower speed limits and heavier policing of laws?

There does seem to be a correlation between over legislation and increased fuckwittery on the roads and in life in general.

I can definitely see a future for me as a grumpy ole codger . . . :yes:

[u4ea]

I put it down to the fact that in New Zealand we have a small population which is easier to enforce.As well our roads are different(not that Ive travelled over there).We dont have hundreds of k's of long straights or 5 lanes on either side of the road ..which would definatly get the braincells working..nor do we sue as readilly(or for silly reasons) as the Americans do.Great read tho Alister ..thankyou for the insight from a traveller.In saying all of the above I dont think I would want to be caught by a US officer if I was a bit naughty!:dodge:

[vifferman]

We went to the Sultanate of Kalifornicatia at Christmas, and on the whole, found driving there much more relaxing, due to the other drivers' behaviour. (Mebbe this is because with gun usage being rife, they're scared someone'll shoot them if they're rude?)
The first example was when we exited from the rental car place at SF Airport. I *knew* I had to keep right, but when you're lost, you tend to be looking around to see where to go, and drive instinctively, which is what I did. Straight into three or four lanes of oncoming traffic. :shit:
No big deal - everyone stopped, no-one tootled me (melodiously or vigorously), and I sorted my act out and continued.

The second revelation was on day two: I realised I wasn't sure about rules'n'regulations, so I approached a bike cop (bicycle, not motorbike, complete with cop-issue lycra gear!) in San Jose, and asked him about rules at intersections. I was amazed to learn that although there are rules that govern who gives way (yeild to the person on your left, etc.), the primary one seemed to be courtesy: whoever arrived first had right of way.

There was only one (1) time in 8 days that I saw rudeness of any kind. On Friday evening in LA, driving back from Universal Studios, I went to pull out from an on-ramp into traffic, and some mental bastidge (prolly a D'Aucklander) blasted his horns at me as he weaved through the traffic at well above the speed everyone else was doing. Generally (even in this rush hour), the traffic flowed well, everyone behaved, and it was much, much nicer than driving in D'Auckland.

Even though the speed limit is ostensibly 55 mph on the freeways in many places, cruising at up to 100 wasn't a biggie, so from time to time, we did. :niceone: The only fiercely enforced speed limits we encountered were coming down out of the Los Angeles hills after driving through Angeles Forest (largely a misnomer - it was mostly lowish scrub), there were flashing speed signs (35, IIRC), speed cameras, and cops lurking.

[MSTRS]

Responsibility is very much on individuals - the law treats them almost as though they're grown ups.


Aaah, remember when NZ was like that? Nanny state do-gooders would have been laughed out of town. The insidious nature of legislation in all areas of life is NOT a good thing.

[tri boy]

Nice post 86.:yes:
Possibly the link to considerate driving can be linked to a nations approach in handling its citizens. Example:
Travelling/riding in places like India, Turkey, etc may seem like a suicidal dance of machinery and humans...until you join the throng. Beeps on horns, and arms waving you onward are the norm, and extremely efficient. The drivers want to get to there destinations quickly and safely, so assist each other with merging, passing etc.
However if you rise above your position in the traffic food chain, chances are you will get wasted.:gob:
And this is where there society beliefs step in. Basically, they don't give a stuff. You made the call to be a fuckwit, so justice is serviced. They will push you to one side and go about their business. Not all life is cheap, just lives of the traveling morons.
I kinda like their approach.
I hav'nt travelled in the USA, so wouldn't compare my experience in Asia with that of American rules. Possibly there is a population link though.
Maybe NZ is like some short people:dodge:, always trying to get noticed, and our driving reflects this. Larger nations are like Joe average. Just getting on with getting on.

[sarahtvet]

Having been in a period of enforced inaction due to an operation, I've had the good fortune to be able to catch up on some quiet reading time. At the moment I've nearly finished reading Backblocks America, Jo and Gareth Morgan's excellent account of their biking adventure around the US, Canada, and Mexico.


Marvelous, and almost make me feel like doing 106 :yes:


sounds like you have been doing some serious work on that book :yes:

106 you, I find that hard to believe, just watch the bloody sutures :doctor:

Sounds like a real commonsense approach to traffic policing, perhaps we had better send the met a copy too.

[janno]

Maybe NZ is like some short people:dodge:, always trying to get noticed, and our driving reflects this. Larger nations are like Joe average. Just getting on with getting on.

Good point.

Or also perhaps because New Zealand has been relatively empty for most of
it's history, and only in the last 30 years have we had things such as traffic jams, so we don't have an ingrained culture on how to behave.

So we expect to get were we want to go immediately, with no hold ups or interferances, and we get irate when those things occur.

[vifferman]

I always thought it was summat to do with our pioneering heritage/spirit, but things like the aggro that occurs in passing lanes doesn't fit that idea, whereas the "short person" theory does.
It would certainly explain why it pisses some people off to be passed. But I suspect the "short person" syndrome is more a manhood than stature thing.

Maybe I should test that - next time I pass someone, hold up a sign that says "Ha ha!! My dick is bigger than yours!"

:dodge:

[slowpoke]

It's a chicken or the egg situation isn't it?
Do we have such comparatively draconian legislation because we are shitty drivers.....or are we shitty drivers because we've been dumbed down by such legislation?

[MSTRS]

Good point.

Or also perhaps because New Zealand has been relatively empty for most of
it's history, and only in the last 30 years have we had things such as traffic jams, so we don't have an ingrained culture on how to behave.

So we expect to get were we want to go immediately, with no hold ups or interferances, and we get irate when those things occur.

Or because we (were) a nation of DIYers, we are increasingly frustrated by the plethora of laws that say we can't now? Roadrage is the same as giving hell to some officious little prat with a clipboard (perhaps the one saying that you can't remove that tree on YOUR land that is dropping crap in YOUR guttering cos the RMA "says you can't"?)

[MSTRS]

Slowpoke - I suspect that your signature holds the answer

[Toaster]

That was an interesting read there 86. Cheers.

[janno]

Or because we (were) a nation of DIYers, we are increasingly frustrated by the plethora of laws that say we can't now? Roadrage is the same as giving hell to some officious little prat with a clipboard (perhaps the one saying that you can't remove that tree on YOUR land that is dropping crap in YOUR guttering cos the RMA "says you can't"?)

Well, I agree with that, too.

But how to remedy the situation?

How long would chaos reign if the various nonsensical laws were scrapped, before things got on an even keel? Considering the "it's not my fault" and "he made me do it" and "society owes me" generation that has come through?

Be interesting if we were able to give it a go and conduct some huge sort of social experiment. I'm for it, anyway.

[MSTRS]

Be interesting if we were able to give it a go and conduct some huge sort of social experiment. I'm for it, anyway.

What? You'd interrupt the one we have now? Reactionary! Shame on you. Uncle Helen is disappointed....

[vifferman]

Or because we (were) a nation of DIYers, we are increasingly frustrated by the plethora of laws that say we can't now?
Yeah, I was going to say that too, so I suspect you're right (I mean, if you and I think that, then it must be true, yes?) On the same note, I think that restrictive laws/circumstances, and too much safety are partially responsible for the rise in adventure sports, and - for those who don't want to shell out big coin for that - reckless behaviour. Speeding, breaking road laws, stunting, etc.

Roadrage is the same as giving hell to some officious little prat with a clipboard (perhaps the one saying that you can't remove that tree on YOUR land that is dropping crap in YOUR guttering cos the RMA "says you can't"?)
Yeah, WTF is up with that?!!
You can buy a tree, plant it on your property, and then if you need to subsequently remove it for some valid reason (like its roots are breaking your wall or path), you're not allowed to. :shit: Who the hell owns it? What business is it of anyone else?

[Babelfish]

Hi, you've reached the automated post of Automaton TempBJ. He'd like to answer your thread, but is unsure what ruling exists toward making either a wity or contructive comment within this context. He'd just like to point out that he agrees with pretty much anything said here, within the guidlines of of the law of both this forum and the greater community. He'd also like to comment on the proactive work towards a brighter relationship with our American friends, in line with this nations policy of being everyones mate (aside from the whole "racist bastard" policy we have).

Please let me know if I am supposed to say something else.

Your automated friend, Automaton TempBJ :drool:

[MSTRS]

Hi, you've reached the automated post of Automaton TempBJ. He'd like to answer your thread, but is unsure what ruling exists toward making either a wity or contructive comment within this context. He'd just like to point out that he agrees with pretty much anything said here, within the guidlines of of the law of both this forum and the greater community. He'd also like to comment on the proactive work towards a brighter relationship with our American friends, in line with this nations policy of being everyones mate (aside from the whole "racist bastard" policy we have).

Please let me know if I am supposed to say something else.

Your automated friend, Automaton TempBJ :drool:

Just what we need...another Yesman. Go on, dare you to have ideas of your own :dodge:

[Crisis management]

Just what we need...another Yesman. Go on, dare you to have ideas of your own :dodge:

No no no no.....we've heard his own ideas before.

My experience in the states echoes vfr's, polite and calm driving everywhere (except the south where there are some true nutters). Lose a few laws and I'm sure we are all capable of making our own decisions.

Pet hate: those bloody red arrows for right hand turns :angry:

[vifferman]

Pet hate: those bloody red arrows for right hand turns :angry:
While I don't hate them, I do on occasion ignore them if there's nothing coming.
I liked that in Mrka there were far, far fewer traffic lights than here, and no roundabouts. Intersections were mainly either uncontrolled or had stop signs on ALL roads (apart from intersections on major highways).
It seemed to work very, very well.

If "they" are going to put traffic lights everywhere (including another new one on Mokoia Road, for some unfathomable reason), at least make them sensible ones, that react to traffic volumes. It's just a tad frustrating sitting at a red light when there's nothing coming the other way.
At the lightse at the end of our street, it's quicker in off-peak times to leap out of the car (or off the bike) and push the pedestrian button than wait for the timed response. And if you're waiting to turn right into the street, it's quicker to go around the block. Now that's just pharkt.

[car]

Better yet, courtesy - like king of the road aggression - is infectious and prevails in every situation drivers encounter.

A long time ago, on a Harley ride around Arizona, I pulled out of a gas station and nearly got taken out by some dithering old fogey and his wife in their sub-compact. I shook my head at them, but we'd avoided any collision, so went on our ways.

We were heading the same way though and, sure enough, the red lights came up and we pulled alongside each other. At which point, he starts to get out of his car. I cut the engine and, to my surprise, he began to apologise profusely. I was dumbfounded, and told him not to worry about it.

I related this to some local friends later, who explained that this was probably because he was worried I might be carrying a gun. A lot of people carry guns in AZ, I was told, and it pays to say sorry. The same reason, I'd figured last time I was in the US, that no-one had so much as beeped a horn at the crazy guy wandering all over the road on Sunset Blvd.

I've been to the states a few times since, and always found the drivers courteous, and the driving easy, even in LA. Any overt expression of agression, even decisiveness, seems to go a long way on the road. People move. I've never worked out whether they were just acquiescent by nature, or whether they were worried that I might start taking pot-shots at the next intersection. The seedier the neighbourhood, the less this seems to work.

I must admit, though, that coming here straight after the US, I was dismayed by the lack of courtesy and road-skills that a lot of drivers showed. It was nice to be back on the right side of the road again, but not so nice getting carved up by morons who don't know how their own right of way rules work.

Of course, this may just have been because I was in Auckland.

:)


He finished by asking if she'd like some maps of the area! Does this seem a long way from cop behaviour in New Zealand?

Not a long way, no.

I've been pulled twice since I got here, both times in excess of 130kph, and both times I've been given a warning. The first time, it was 3am, and the guy gave me directions to the nearest safe spot to pull over and take a kip. That seemed like reasonable behaviour to me.

The second time, I'd probably have got a ticket if it weren't for the spectacular idiocy of a certain camper driver, but the cop did at least show some initiative by letting me off the hook so that he could deal with the more pressing matter.

But then, I've found the same in the UK, too.

I tend not to speed when the conditions aren't favourable, and so whenever I've been pulled the roads have been relatively clear and traffic light. With only one exception, I've been let off or had my offence downgraded every time.

That exception, the cop apologised to me, because by the time he'd caught me up the traffic had got heavy and I'd decided that I wasn't going to play silly buggers on a full motorway. My average speed had dropped to an almost not-worth-booking 92mph.

He apologised three times for pulling me over, but once the Vascar had started logging, he had to have a collar at the end of the shift, or so he claimed.

Who knows, he may have been lying, but that he didn't screw me for not having an MoT, nor for the entirely illegal exhaust system I was sporting, suggests that he wasn't in the mood for making trouble.


Motorcyclists in many states of America are free to choose whether or not to wear helmets. We wore ours most of the time but it was great having the right to shed them every now and then at our discretion and feel the wind in our hair.

This I agree with wholeheartedly. If nothing else, it makes the bike a hell of a lot more useful in town, where I can give a helmetless mate a lift three miles down the road, at little more than pushbike pace, without breaking the law.

Of course, over here, where I'd get busted for riding just a pushbike with no lid on, the law doesn't seem quite so much like an ass.

I'm not sure if the cops here are that much worse than they are anywhere else. When you or I get pulled overseas, we're visitors. Police are much more likely to let us off, to give us directions, to try to give us a good impression of their country.

Even if they don't want to cut the tourist some slack, they most probably want to cut themselves some slack from trying to process a speeding fine through foreign lands. I almost didn't want to get an NZ license for that very reason, but of course now that I have one, I'm in the Master Computer.

[86GSXR]

All good comments folks and I must say that I'm really enjoying the book. This was only one small excerpt from an altogether very well written piece.

I posted this as it really struck a chord as to how much NZ society has changed in the last 20 or so years and how molliecoddled we have become. I know there will be folks older than myself who'd say that this is nothing compared to how it really used to be, and I know that the younger generation won't really be able to meaningfully compare life today with how it was then.

Whatever the viewpoints and the reasons, NZ is still a great place to be and that the over-regulation is unfortunately with us for a while yet it seems. The only way to avoid it is to do your own thing anyway and try not to get caught. The key is to be safe and responsible in the process it seems to me.

Yeah, go ahead and cut down that dangerous tree, do 110 if there's nothing coming and the road is straight and dry, or whatever it may be that doesn't make sense.

Personally I would wear a helmet 99% of the time, I never speed where it's not safe, and I have little tolerance for those who endanger others.

I don't blame the police for enforcing the rules, I know they only do it because they're held accountable by a higher rule to do so and it's great when they use their common sense as they often do.

I realise that this country needs the income from taxes and fines, as we will be facing a rapidly aging population very soon and we need to invest in income generating investments for future retirement schemes.

I just wish the government would be honest about this and not try and bullshit us about how unsafe we all are and therefore need to be taxed, wrist slapped and fined at every opportunity.

Anyway, before I get all :Offtopic: I really loved driving around America and fully intend to do it again sometime by bike.

The first time was by car www.autodriveaway.com which was great except that there wasn't too much opportunity to get off the interstates.

I was living in Atlanta, Georgia and vividly remember my very first driving experience on US soil.

I'd hired a car from the airport in Atlanta (pop 4.5 million and the 8th most congested US city) and pulled out of the single lane access road onto an 8 lane freeway. Christ what a shock! I just glued myself to the guy in front and stayed with him for the next 20 miles, until I got used to being on the right and the flow of the roads. After a day or two though it became very natural.

A couple of times I reverted back to left hand instincts, but only briefly. In fact, after returning to NZ, it seemed weird not being on the right.

I loved the first come first served intersection rule, and the 'right on red' rule is fantastic!!! If only we'd adopt it here, we could save SO much time at lights. It would have to be left at red though naturally.

And as for the highway patrol. Well, my experience was just great. I was driving through the western Texas desert about 100 miles east of El Paso, single lane interstate, and decided to stop at an isolated gas station for coffee.

As I pulled onto the off ramp the sun was in my face and I didn't see this bloody great big steel reinforcing rod that had only just fallen off a roading truck ahead of me. I spotted it just in time to swerve around it, but I unfortunatly clipped it and scraped the front guard and took a chunk of rubber out of the right front tyre.

I had to get a police report, and as this place was 60 miles from the nearest police base and it took 4 hours for the officer to arrive I passed the time by yakking to the local sherriff (blue jeans, gun holstered Mexican guy) until the 'proper' police officer got there.

I also changed the tire while I waited, and when the highway patrolman arrived he was absolutely astounded and genuinely hurt by the fact that I'd changed my own tyre.

Oh Sir, sir, he stated, you should not have had to do that, that's what we're here for.

Now that's service in my opinion :yes:

And yes, I had some pretty freaky experiences on the road in Chicago and LA. Whew, was I glad to get away from some pretty scarey dudes.

[chanceyy]

I was living in Atlanta, Georgia and vividly remember my very first driving experience on US soil.

I'd hired a car from the airport in Atlanta (pop 4.5 million and the 8th most congested US city) and pulled out of the single lane access road onto an 8 lane freeway. Christ what a shock! I just glued myself to the guy in front and stayed with him for the next 20 miles, until I got used to being on the right and the flow of the roads. After a day or two though it became very natural.



:lol: gawd that brings back memories .. my first driving experience in the states .. pulled out of a park & started driving on the wrong side of the road .. just about freaked out my passenger :killingme:
occassionally had to stop & think about what side of the road i was pulling out on .. but yeah it does not take long to get used to it

The freeways flow really well & we certainly do not have roads like that here .. mind you I still prefer the roads we have here at least most are not boring .. with exceptions of course ..

never was pulled over by cops but dealt with quite a few where I was working .. damn freaky to see them all armed up to the hilt, liked it much better when they were in mufti LOL

sounds like a good read there Al :)

[Babelfish]

Just what we need...another Yesman. Go on, dare you to have ideas of your own :dodge:

Just what we need...another Yesman. Go on, dare you to have ideas of your own :dodge:

[86GSXR]

Just what we need...another Yesman. Go on, dare you to have ideas of your own :dodge:

Oh god :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Sanx]

The thing that really pisses me off with driving / riding in this country is the length of time people take to move after a light goes green. Green means 'go'. Green does not mean put down your cellphone, put your car in Drive, and release handbrake. It means go. As in move. Now. It's usually the same people who then accelerate so damn slowly, it takes until the next bloody traffic light (in Auckland, about 4.5 metres away) to hit 50km/h.

Does this matter? Well, yes. Why do you think so many people run red lights? Lights have timed cycles. During the time the braindead amoeba at the front takes to move away, four or five alert drivers could have got through the same junction. Is it any wonder people run red lights at the end of the queue then? Considering light cycles are often too short, having only two cars go through when six could have managed it is exactly the sort of scenario that frustrates people enough to just 'nip' through the gap at the end.

And that's when bikers get taken out.

[sarahtvet]

Nice post 86.:yes:
Possibly the link to considerate driving can be linked to a nations approach in handling its citizens. Example:
Travelling/riding in places like India, Turkey, etc may seem like a suicidal dance of machinery and humans...until you join the throng. Beeps on horns, and arms waving you onward are the norm, and extremely efficient. The drivers want to get to there destinations quickly and safely, so assist each other with merging, passing etc.
However if you rise above your position in the traffic food chain, chances are you will get wasted.:gob:
And this is where there society beliefs step in. Basically, they don't give a stuff. You made the call to be a fuckwit, so justice is serviced. They will push you to one side and go about their business. Not all life is cheap, just lives of the traveling morons.
I kinda like their approach.
I hav'nt travelled in the USA, so wouldn't compare my experience in Asia with that of American rules. Possibly there is a population link though.
Maybe NZ is like some short people:dodge:, always trying to get noticed, and our driving reflects this. Larger nations are like Joe average. Just getting on with getting on.

Brave man if you have driven lots in india, I totally agree that everybody looks out for each other and engages in a well orchestrated dance but it would take some special riding to get into that dance :yes:

I am considering enduro india so will be looking for some tips:yes:

I notice that in London we all let people out, if you don't they come anyway!!! It is easier and smoother if we all gently feed in together. Here people rarely let drivers out which I found really strange. But we do gets loads pull over to let us past on the bikes though so not all have lost the fun in life!!!

[Swoop]

...the length of time people take to move after a light goes green. Green means 'go'. Green does not mean put down your cellphone, put your car in Drive, and release handbrake. It means go. As in move. Now.
Does this matter? Well, yes. Why do you think so many people run red lights? Lights have timed cycles. During the time the braindead amoeba at the front takes to move away, four or five alert drivers could have got through the same junction. Is it any wonder people run red lights at the end of the queue then?
We also have that amber light in the centre of the traffic lights. Completely wasted on NZ drivers.
Other countries have this amber light "illuminated" for several seconds, to warn you that the light is either going to change from green to red - OR vice versa. In NZ it flashes for a nanosecond. Might as well do away with it and just have the red and green!:angry:

[MSTRS]

... that amber light in the centre of the traffic lights. ... In NZ it flashes for a nanosecond....

Rounds these parts it exceeds the time the green is on....:gob:

[The Pastor]

Yeah, WTF is up with that?!!
You can buy a tree, plant it on your property, and then if you need to subsequently remove it for some valid reason (like its roots are breaking your wall or path), you're not allowed to. :shit: Who the hell owns it? What business is it of anyone else?


ITS NOT AS IF TREES ARE RARE IN NZ EITHER, WE HAVE WAY TO MANY TREES.

[sarahtvet]

Rounds these parts it exceeds the time the green is on....:gob:

In the UK we don't like amber it means go faster to us :yes:

[peasea]

Larger nations are like Joe average. Just getting on with getting on.

I've only been to Oz, so can't tell what other nations are like in their driving habits, BUT! I have many friends and lots of family members who have travelled extensively, they say the same thing. We are a nation of "I'm better than you's", which, when we compete in sporting events, is great. On the road; it sucks.

The road is for everyone; we take our babies on the open road; you want to race, go to a race track. The cash spent/received on things like 'Boy Racers' should/could be fed into tracks and fines increased. That way the message would get through (via lightened wallets) and there'd be more places to race (through lightened wallets).

Or is that too simple?

[86GSXR]

Yeah, and after going down to my local shop last Friday night and seeing two boy racer cars on their roofs, a lampost lying in the middle of the road, and hordes of said boy racers standing around laughing at the sight, I really don't know why we just don't make it illegal for anyone under 20 to own a vehicle larger than 1000cc and unmodified. That would slow em down a bit surely.

[swbarnett]

The real problem with young drivers in NZ is that we protect them too much when they're younger. I get the impression from what I see in the media and personally that most parents have the attitude that ANY amount of pain a child suffers is bad. If you don't allow your kids to get the odd grazed knee or even a broken limb or two before they reach driving age they don't learn the basic principle of cause and effect. When they finally have a bit of freedom to be reckless they do it in a way that has much higher consequences, both for themselves and others, than when they were younger.

A little pain is a good thing.