It happened AGAIN!!

[Sycophant]

On the way to work down the Onewa Road transit lane this morning, a cager, presumably tired of waiting in slow traffic pulls into my lane about 30-40m ahead of my. I react, and panic a little, try to emergency brake, but there's no hope really - my wheels lock, and I drop the bike (on the right side, AGAIN) and end up sliding 50m down the road.

They didn't even slow down. Presumably if he didn't see me coming up behind him in the left lane, then he was unlikely to see me sliding along behind him either.

The woman behind him in the other lane stopped, and gave me her details and his plate, so tomorrow I will be reporting the incident at the police station.

After three hours in A&E it was been decided I have soft tissue damage to my left wrist and right shoulder, and a graze on my right knee. Bike is once again missing right front indicator, right foot peg and has a bent brake pedal. And I've ruined another pair of jeans - I really should invest in better pants.

I'm normally pretty alert to people on that road, but this guy didn't show his hand - and I had actually clocked him beforehand, but he wasn't indicating, or head checking, or turning his wheels, looked like he was planning to stay where he was.

[kiwifruit]

:(

i hope you aren't in pain

[ManDownUnder]

Bummer dude... but it does sound like you need some practice emergency braking....

Owning the road too... don't let the bastards push you around. You're as entitled to that tarmac as they are... just ride it instead of rubbing yourself on it.

MDU over and under

[Sycophant]

Not too much pain, although typing is a little painful (good thing for a computer programmer!).

My braking wasn't too bad, I've managed to stop nice and short of a few other occasions, but this guy was slow and close, and I just dig it in. It's a bummer, but I feel confident I wasn't at fault - I ma have been able to come out better off, but it could easily have been worse. The woman behind was convinced I must have hit him, apparently I came very close.

I normally ride about 40-50 in that lane, and on the left, as people often change into it, and turn right from the other side through the stopped right lane.. It's a downright scary road in the wet sometimes. There's two intersections near the bottom that are especially hairy - I've seen two bike accidents at one of them.

[Kflasher]

That sux dude.

[Holy Roller]

I'm glad it wasn't more serrious and that you are OK. The bike can be fixed again but please invest in some leather, for under $100 one can pickup a half decent pr of leather trou. I do not like Onewa Rd but have to ride to visit my mum. Try turning right into Aorangi Pl, great practice for hill starts:shit: during rush hour often go to the top and turn around there. Glad I left that rat race.:yes:

[bert_is_evil]

Bad news! Hope you mend quickly
You should definitely invest in some leather, pretty lucky to get away with a graze.

[Krayy]

Hope you're not in too much pain. Bloody cagers.

Send a PM to WarlockNZ and get yourself a Stebel horn. That'll let the bastards know you're there :angry:

[Grahameeboy]

Sure you don't mean feet only 30-40 metres is 90 - 120 feet so not sure what the car did wrong.

Sorry, I am sorry you had an accident and glad you are okay, however, someone has to stump up and raise this....

[Sycophant]

Sure you don't mean feet only 30-40 metres is 90 - 120 feet so not sure what the car did wrong.

Sorry, I am sorry you had an accident and glad you are okay, however, someone has to stump up and raise this....

You're probably right really. I do suck at quantifying distance... It was about 1 and a bit car lengths, because I was just behind and to the left of the car behind him.

[The Stranger]

On the way to work down the Onewa Road transit lane this morning, a cager, presumably tired of waiting in slow traffic pulls into my lane about 30-40m ahead of my. I react, and panic a little, try to emergency brake, but there's no hope really - my wheels lock, and I drop the bike (on the right side, AGAIN) and end up sliding 50m down the road.



Fark, what speed were you doing.
I have seen noobs stop in <8m from 50kph.

This does raise some serious issues.
1) You were going waaaay too fast for the conditions.
2) You really should get to RRRS (http://www.rrrs.org.nz) on Sunday.
3) Exactly how long did you tell you GF your dick was?

[sAsLEX]

Sure you don't mean feet only 30-40 metres is 90 - 120 feet so not sure what the car did wrong.

Sorry, I am sorry you had an accident and glad you are okay, however, someone has to stump up and raise this....

umm from what he said the car turned into another lane without indicating or checking to see if traffic was coming.......

Do you do this with your daughter in the car and hope 120 feet is enough for a vehicle moving at pace to stop?

[sAsLEX]

and braking is not always the answer.

Was he fully over to the left of your lane? Was the footpath clear? Could you of juiced it through the gap? Just things to think/analyse about your crash.

I used to lane split allot at pace and the throttle was often better at avoiding trouble than the brake!

[Grahameeboy]

You're probably right really. I do suck at quantifying distance... It was about 1 and a bit car lengths, because I was just behind and to the left of the car behind him.

Sounds better..........yeah that happens a lot over here and you probably did well in the circumstances but keep riding.

I look for head movements, hand movements and even a car going quickly, sometimes a sign of a gap jumper

[Grahameeboy]

umm from what he said the car turned into another lane without indicating or checking to see if traffic was coming.......

Do you do this with your daughter in the car and hope 120 feet is enough for a vehicle moving at pace to stop?

at 30mph the stopping distance is 45 feet so 120 feet does not seem too bad if traffic is moving still......anyway see last post

[ZeroIndex]

You're probably right really. I do suck at quantifying distance... It was about 1 and a bit car lengths, because I was just behind and to the left of the car behind him.
So more like 3 - 4 metres, not 30 - 40?

Don't ever sit to the left of a car that you're following... stay on the right...

I'm sure some of the Auckland Riding Training classes will teach you this: If someone jumps in, use the centre-line as your 'new' temporary lane, while you pass the bastard, while using your left hand to wave hello :finger:... :killingme

[Grahameeboy]

Ignore the boot method which is not taught in training.....no need for it, does nothing and achieves nothing...and could get you a visit from cops.

[janno]

Wow! Sounds like a close call - I'm glad you weren't hurt to badly, and REALLY glad the woman got the offenders licence plate. Green bling to her, though she wouldn't know how special that is . . . :innocent:

Time to get some Draggins or leathers, though I suppose the bank balance is going to hurt while you fix your steed. I'd put good gear first, personally. You can get great deals second hand if you snoop around on TardMe or put a wanted ad out there. Good luck!

[Grahameeboy]

Leathers with armour..draggin jeans are expensive and have no real protection for your joints etc.

[Conquiztador]

Sounds like U will survive. Good.

And I know U say he did not look. But just in case he did, do you ride with lights on?

[surfer]

Sad to hear of your off. Onewa Road sucks big time for inconsiderate aresholes that drive like cunts.

[terbang]

drive like cunts.
Driven one or two of those as well. Seems like fun to me...!

Back to the topic, bad news on the off and I also recommend leather.

[FROSTY]

Im not gonna hassle ya here dude> I will ask ya to replay the crash HONESTLY in ya head. Think what you could have done different and at what point in time. Forget blame just think "what could i have done different."
Were ya covering ya brake with your fingers knowing its a orrrible road.
Were ya wearing approrriate gear
Were you riding at an apropriate speed for the road/weather conditions.
Were the tyre pressures correct.
Did you look for possible ecape routes

[gijoe1313]

Well, glad to hear you didn't suffer anything more serious than the injuries you got. Hope your ride can be fixed up quickly and you heal up fast as well :yes:

And yes, that road can be a pain in the whatsits ... especially in rush hour.

[ZeroIndex]

Im not gonna hassle ya here dude> I will ask ya to replay the crash HONESTLY in ya head. Think what you could have done different and at what point in time. Forget blame just think "what could i have done different."
Were ya covering ya brake with your fingers knowing its a orrrible road.
Were ya wearing approrriate gear
Were you riding at an apropriate speed for the road/weather conditions.
Were the tyre pressures correct.
Did you look for possible ecape routes
+1

Did you have your vitamins today? That was a good post...

[slopster]

If you didn't hit the car while you were on your arse you would have had plenty of time to slow down or avoid him by staying upright. You need to practice your braking.

[CptSolo]

I bet it was a freaking Volvo.

#1 Rule) Do not -repeat- do not, go within 100m of a Scandanavian vehicle on a motorcycle. Scandies make the strongest cage.

[Delphinus]

Emergency braking and stopping in short distances is all well and good in an empty carpark, but its a different story in the real world where you have a split second to decide and act with cars getting closer and the heart racing.

Fast reaction times are not it, smart reactions is what we need to train.... So how do you train smart reactions in panic situations? To split second decide to swerve or brake, and when braking not to haul on that lever?

[ZeroIndex]

Emergency braking and stopping in short distances is all well and good in an empty carpark, but its a different story in the real world where you have a split second to decide and act with cars getting closer and the heart racing.

Fast reaction times are not it, smart reactions is what we need to train.... So how do you train smart reactions in panic situations? To split second decide to swerve or brake, and when braking not to haul on that lever?
+1 on smart reactions

[Scorpygirl]

Emergency braking and stopping in short distances is all well and good in an empty carpark, but its a different story in the real world where you have a split second to decide and act with cars getting closer and the heart racing.

Fast reaction times are not it, smart reactions is what we need to train.... So how do you train smart reactions in panic situations? To split second decide to swerve or brake, and when braking not to haul on that lever?

Yeah, good question. I had about 5 metres, I reckon. I have played the vid time and time again in the brain but there is a blank and no it's not concussion!!!! I had the right gear on, the tyres where the right pressure, I tried to brake but did not want to lock it and slide under the car and there was no where to go, believe you me!!!!!

I am only a learner - but a smart reaction in this case saved me from going over the car, sliding into other cars and ending up in hospital!!!!

I want to do the RRRS course to learn more, don't get me wrong.

[Sycophant]

I understand the backseat riding to some extent. I am not what I would call an experienced rider, but I am hardly a n00b either. I've been riding in peak time traffic for the better part of four years. I've ridden that same route every day for about a year and a half.

I always cover the brake on that road (and most other places). Yes, there were very possibly better options. Yes I probably did overbrake. Yes I have practiced emergency braking. But the reality as I saw it at the time, and the reaction I had was all I had at the time. I was traveling at a fair safe speed (45-50 max) in a clear and dry lane. I ride centre left in that lane so as to make myself more visible to the cars in the right lane, and cars turning right across the lane from the other direction.

The person who pulled our was practically stationary when he made his move in front of me. I can only presume he did not look in his mirrors well, as I shouldn't have been in his blind spot.

My riding attire is not perfect, but not completely reckless either, I wear sturdy shoes, good jeans and a proper jacket. The jeans are not ideal, but offer a good compromise for me. I will look at better clothing.

For what it's worth, the guy should never have been in my lane at all, it is for buses, bikes and 3+ occupant cars. He clearly didn't meet the criteria or he would have been in the lane from the start.

In practice, perhaps it should have been possible to stop safely in that distance, or even change direction, but in the distance and time I had to react I wasn't able, when push came to shove, affect any other option. The practice I've done, while reasonable is very difficult to call upon perfectly in a situation like that. I did everything I could in the time i had to stop safely, but it didn't work out. I did drop a fair bit of speed before the wheel locked and I went down, but in the end that's what happened.

I am not some jackass riding around in shorts and jandals and pulling monos while splitting through urban streets, I ride every day and I ride as safely as I can. Shit happens, and in this case, happened.

I'll take that I should have better pants, but as for the rest of it, I think i did reasonably well in a pretty rough situation.

[FROSTY]

Hey dude don't panic.
By playin it back in your head its not about kickin yaself its about seeing what you can change to avoid it happening again.

Give Quasi on here a yeodle for a fantastic deal on trou.

Just a thought--Isn't that section of inside lane green painted--maybee slipppery??

[sAsLEX]

So more like 3 - 4 metres, not 30 - 40?

Don't ever sit to the left of a car that you're following... stay on the right...

I'm sure some of the Auckland Riding Training classes will teach you this: If someone jumps in, use the centre-line as your 'new' temporary lane, while you pass the bastard, while using your left hand to wave hello :finger:... :killingme

Depends on the road, I would sit to the left a bit as on that road you are on the inside ie left hand side of the traffic that is stationary/ a hazard. It moves you in to a better visual range for the drivers, puts some distance between you and them and is just better.

[ZeroIndex]

Depends on the road, I would sit to the left a bit as on that road you are on the inside ie left hand side of the traffic that is stationary/ a hazard. It moves you in to a better visual range for the drivers, puts some distance between you and them and is just better.
Sounds like a badly designed road... yet another government roading screwup...

[sAsLEX]

Sounds like a badly designed road... yet another government roading screwup...

Not really , pointless having the bus lane on the right and making the bus push through traffic to get to its stops. In fact I thik you will find all bus/transit lanes are on the inside for this very reason.

There coud be some other illogical reason for it...... but I doubt it.

[Jantar]

Fark, what speed were you doing.
I have seen noobs stop in <8m from 50kph.

This does raise some serious issues.
1) You were going waaaay too fast for the conditions.
2) You really should get to RRRS (http://www.rrrs.org.nz) on Sunday.
3) Exactly how long did you tell you GF your dick was?

Wow, Can you get those noobs to teach me their braking technique? And what tyres are they using?

50 km/h is 14 m/s, so they are decellerating at 12.25G and stopping in 1.14 seconds (without any reaction time). The very best braking results I have seen in any test is 0.9G, so these noobs are doing 15 times better than the experts. I just have to learn this technique which somehow rewrites the laws of physics. :gob:

[sAsLEX]

Wow, Can you get those noobs to teach me their braking technique? And what tyres are they using?

50 km/h is 14 m/s, so they are decellerating at 12.25G and stopping in 1.14 seconds (without any reaction time). The very best braking results I have seen in any test is 0.9G, so these noobs are doing 15 times better than the experts. I just have to learn this technique which somehow rewrites the laws of physics. :gob:

2g would be ~18m/s/s yes?

14/18 = 0.7 seconds so travelled less than 14m


I think your math might be suspect? 12g would have you stoped very very short distance.

EDIT: some rough working at what I thiknk the G is.....

<img src=http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66006&stc=1&d=1184240834>

[Jantar]

2g would be ~18m/s/s yes?

14/18 = 0.7 seconds so travelled less than 14m


I think your math might be suspect?

EDIT: some rough working

<img src=http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66006&stc=1&d=1184240834>

V^2 = U^2 + 2 f s
V=14
U=0
s=8

So 14^2 (196) = 2 f 8
or f = 196/16
f = 12.25 m/s

So you are correct, I labled this as G rather than m/s. Its actually 1.24G which is still far better than I've seen in any braking test.

[sAsLEX]

V^2 = U^2 + 2 f s
V=14
U=0s=8

So 14^2 (196) = 2 f 8
or f = 196/16
f = 12.25 m/s

So you are correct, I labled this as G rather than m/s. Its actually 1.24G which is still far better than I've seen in any braking test.

But say 10m might make it fall in to the reals of possibility?! CAnt be arsed doing that again, not without a pen and paper and a decent calc.

[Jantar]

But say 10m might make it fall in to the reals of possibility?! CAnt be arsed doing that again, not without a pen and paper and a decent calc.
With a 0.5 sec reaction time, I'd say more like 14m. Which is close to the 15m given in the road code.

[FROSTY]

Now heres the difference between the old aproach and todays generation--
My generation--we'd Mark a start point and see how long it took us to stop.

[Macktheknife]

With a 0.5 sec reaction time, I'd say more like 14m. Which is close to the 15m given in the road code.

Jantar PM sent.

I train riders every week who manage to stop from 45-50 kmh in under 10 metres, 15 is taking it easy.

I am glad to hear the rider concerned is not badly injured but I really believe this is a serious issue for many riders. Misjudging what is the best course of action gets many of us into difficulty simply because we misread the situation and respond in ways which are not always best for us.
No-one is so good they cannot learn from going over the basics again, and I highly recommend doing so every year.

Sycophant, please feel free to make use of one of the site mentors who will give their time and knowledge to you (free of charge) and maybe help you avoid this situation repeating.
Best of luck,
Mack

[Jantar]

Jantar PM sent.

I train riders every week who manage to stop from 45-50 kmh in under 10 metres, 15 is taking it easy.

I am glad to hear the rider concerned is not badly injured but I really believe this is a serious issue for many riders. Misjudging what is the best course of action gets many of us into difficulty simply because we misread the situation and respond in ways which are not always best for us.
No-one is so good they cannot learn from going over the basics again, and I highly recommend doing so every year.

Sycophant, please feel free to make use of one of the site mentors who will give their time and knowledge to you (free of charge) and maybe help you avoid this situation repeating.
Best of luck,
Mack
This is where the quadratic nature of accelleration comes into play. Stopping in 10 m from 45 km/h is only 0.8G and is easily achievable even on poor tyres. The same stopping distance at 50km/h is almost 1 G. With the right teqnique and on a good surface this should be achievable providing there is no reaction time. Notice that a 10% increase in speed is a 21% increase in the decelleration required.

[FROSTY]

Have you factored in the friction coeficient of the road surface?

[Jantar]

Have you factored in the friction coeficient of the road surface?
No, here we are simply discussing the distance required to stop. The Cf of the road in itself is not that important, its the combined road/tyre Cf that can make a difference. ie poor tyres on a good road surface or good tyres on a less effective road surface would both result in greater chance of losing traction. Poor tyres on a grity or icy surface, and the distance is greatly increased.

[sAsLEX]

Have you factored in the friction coeficient of the road surface?

He did by stating 0.8G as the likely decell figure. Sprotbikes on sticky rubber might push 0.9 or closer to one on decent tarmac.

Wheres JRandom he would enjoy mspaint physics!

[sAsLEX]

I train riders every week who manage to stop from 45-50 kmh in under 10 metres, 15 is taking it easy.


A quick question is this a : 1. See cones and brake
2. or ride towards me and brake when I drop this flag?


As one removes the reaction time Frosty or Jantar alluded to. Oh and good on you for helping out the newbies!

[SARGE]

They didn't even slow down. Presumably if he didn't see me coming up behind him in the left lane, then he was unlikely to see me sliding along behind him either.


I'm normally pretty alert to people on that road, but this guy didn't show his hand - and I had actually clocked him beforehand, but he wasn't indicating, or head checking, or turning his wheels, looked like he was planning to stay where he was.

welcome to Auckland...:shit:

[daaatomic]

back on topic.... i also ride down this road every day, and have lost count of the close calls that i have had/witnessed. i'm glad that both rider and bike aren't too badly hurt, but i am worried about the emergency braking skills of alot of riders out there(including myself). what is the best way to learn these skills? should i go to the wednesday mentor ride? i am not a complete nooB but have never been shown any proper skills. for all i know, i may not be doing anything right.

[FROSTY]

Yep--go to the mentor ride--also give The stranger a pm--theresa ride rite course this weekend.
In my opinion having travelled that section of road a fair number of times there are a fair few reasons for slowing down to 30 km/h on that bit of road.
1) coming up to intersections cars turning left into a side road fromtheir enforced 10km/h grind will dive over 100 odd meters early.They DO look but you are aproaching faster than they expect you to be-even doing 50km/h
2) the left lane is always the 'dirty" one for some reason its greasier -dunno why.
3)The left lane seems more "banged around"
My personal observations

[sAsLEX]

back on topic.... i also ride down this road every day, and have lost count of the close calls that i have had/witnessed. i'm glad that both rider and bike aren't too badly hurt, but i am worried about the emergency braking skills of alot of riders out there(including myself). what is the best way to learn these skills? should i go to the wednesday mentor ride? i am not a complete nooB but have never been shown any proper skills. for all i know, i may not be doing anything right.

get some cones, cans or other markers.
Go down to an empty industrial estate in the weekend.
Practice your braking from 20, then 30 then 50 kmh etc seeing how close you can get your stopped cone to the braking cone......

[jrandom]

Wheres JRandom he would enjoy mspaint physics!

I'm here, I'm here. Yes, your physics were charming, old boy. Lovely. Straight A stuff. I'll be sure to call on you for an answer the next time you stick your hand up in class.

Might I recommend MathML (http://www.w3.org/Math/) in future, though?

;)

I'm living in Birkenhead at the moment and doing the same ride down the Onewa Rd transit lane on the Snail every morning. (Into town - I don't work at Navman any more.) With all due respect to Sycophant, I think he needs to practice his braking and swerving. It'd be pretty unusual for a car to pull out in front of you there and not leave room to filter around it. You just have to stay on the ball.

And if he braked hard, but his rear wheel didn't leave the ground, then he wasn't braking that hard...

Of course, if a car drives straight into you, it's another matter entirely. That doesn't seem to be what happened, though.

[Sanx]

With a 0.5 sec reaction time, I'd say more like 14m. Which is close to the 15m given in the road code.

15m? The LTSA claim the total stopping distance, including reaction time, at 50kph is about 38m. That's 'cos the LTSA, in their quest to adopt the lowest common denominator use a 1.5 second average reaction time. The UK's road code use a 0.7 second reaction time.

I also, for a laugh, tested my crappy old 1991 non-ABS Toyota Camry. It runs on shitty half-worn tyres and I tried it out on a road surface comparable with the average surface you'll find in NZ (i.e. a goat track). I could stop from an indicated 50kph in under 7m. Using the the UK's road code reaction time, my total stopping distance is a fraction under 17m. That's a far cry from the 38m the government parrots.

The LTSA's figures, like most other things they do, cater only to the absolute lowest common denominator. For stopping distances, they work on that achieved by a fully-laden logging truck being driven by a drunk brain-dead government minister (I appreciate the terms "minister" and "brain-dead" are interchangable).

Check this out (http://www.fastandsafe.org.nz/Pages/Facts/Braking/index.htm) for more info.

[imdying]

I could stop from an indicated 50kph in under 7m.That's pretty impresive.

[onearmedbandit]

1 I could stop from an indicated 50kph in under 7m.

I take it you mean 'seconds' and not metres?

[Sanx]

I take it you mean 'seconds' and not metres?

No, I mean metres. Most cars will stop a hell of a lot faster than you think provided they've got half decent brakes and the driver has thr will to use them.

[imdying]

And the sky is what colour on the planet you did this on?

[CptSolo]

7m sounds realistic to me, put your geek goggles on..

50km/h is 13.8m/sec and if the car can brake at 0.7G then its slowing down at 6.9m/sec per sec (1G=9.8m/sec per sec)... I can't and can't be arsed remembering the formula for working out distance travelled but using my best guestimate he'll be stopping in under 10m if his initial velocity is 13.8m/s.

[jafar]

Another option (though only as a last resort) is to hit the offending car & turn it into a police/insurance matter. The chances are that you will come out of a low speed hit fairly well especially as you are both moving in the same direction.The damage to your bike should be comparable to what you have sustained by comming off .This also puts the car driver at fault as far as insurance is concerned thereby making him pay for the damage to your bike.
This will then mean that the offending car driver has to pay for his mistake via his insurance & the police.

[tri boy]

Glad your OK.:yes:
Just being nosey.... Do you ride with a headlight on?:mellow:

[Jantar]

7m sounds realistic to me, put your geek goggles on..

50km/h is 13.8m/sec and if the car can brake at 0.7G then its slowing down at 6.9m/sec per sec (1G=9.8m/sec per sec)... I can't and can't be arsed remembering the formula for working out distance travelled but using my best guestimate he'll be stopping in under 10m if his initial velocity is 13.8m/s.
I gave the formula in an earlier post:
V^2 = U^2 +2fs
In your example of 0.7G or 6.9 m/s/s and V=13.8 m/s

13.8^2 = 0^2 +2 x 6.9 x s

or s (distance travelled during braking) = 13.8 m

almost double the 7 m you claim sounds realistic. :mellow:

[sAsLEX]

No, I mean metres. Most cars will stop a hell of a lot faster than you think provided they've got half decent brakes and the driver has thr will to use them.

hear about these magic physics defying bikes all the time in my special place.

Look at my own and Jantars calculations, and compare the Gs that we used referred to compared to what you would need to stop in7m. Then go and ask Rossi et al how many Gs they can pull.

[Chrislost]

On the way to work down the Onewa Road transit lane this morning, a cager, presumably tired of waiting in slow traffic pulls into my lane about 30-40m ahead of my. I react, and panic a little, try to emergency brake, but there's no hope really - my wheels lock, and I drop the bike (on the right side, AGAIN) and end up sliding 50m down the road.

They didn't even slow down. Presumably if he didn't see me coming up behind him in the left lane, then he was unlikely to see me sliding along behind him either.

The woman behind him in the other lane stopped, and gave me her details and his plate, so tomorrow I will be reporting the incident at the police station.

After three hours in A&E it was been decided I have soft tissue damage to my left wrist and right shoulder, and a graze on my right knee. Bike is once again missing right front indicator, right foot peg and has a bent brake pedal. And I've ruined another pair of jeans - I really should invest in better pants.

I'm normally pretty alert to people on that road, but this guy didn't show his hand - and I had actually clocked him beforehand, but he wasn't indicating, or head checking, or turning his wheels, looked like he was planning to stay where he was.


seen people do all sorts of werid things around northcote!

[imdying]

So, even accepting that 7m is a crazy figure, it's also worth noting that it's an irrelevant one in this context. Unless you've got a BMW with stopping radar, your reaction times are going to increase that considerably... so it relates to the OP how?