Waioeka Gorge reduced to 80km

[Brutus]

For those who have ridden, or plan to go riding through the Waioeka gorge, transit is planning to reduce the speed limit to 80km.

The Waioeka gorge is State Highway 2 between Opotiki and Gisborne. Worth the ride and to double back again just to make sure.

Those who live in gisborne there is an open public meeting at Lawson field building on Monday the 16th July 4 pm to 7pm(?) where the public can have their say.
Transit say it'l add only 3.5 mins to the average punters trip, bah!

A few tintops go too fast around some of the corners and drop off.

Wifey said what about the children in the cars of these dodgy drivers, maybe it'll help save them. Think of the children.

I say thats just Darwinism.

[Hitcher]

I hope the Rustys take note of this for the purpose of Grand Challenge route setting!

[Sanx]

Would be interesting to see Transit explain why the road's so unsafe, it needs an 80km/h limit but not so unsafe that they need to get of their fat useless bureaucratic arses and FIX THE GOD DAMN FUCKING ROAD SURFACE!

</rant>

[Matt Bleck]

They need passing lanes thru there, not a speed restriction!

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Would be interesting to see Transit explain why the road's so unsafe, it needs an 80km/h limit but not so unsafe that they need to get of their fat useless bureaucratic arses and FIX THE GOD DAMN FUCKING ROAD SURFACE!

</rant>

Agree 100%
Beautiful ride thru there - they can stick 80kph where the sun don't shine.

Mind you I have never seen cops thru the gorge.

Teach the fkers how to drive properly.

[jonbuoy]

If this is their way of fixing the problem pretty soon we'll be bouncing along rutted cart tracks at the 20KPH blanket speed limit.

[Holy Roller]

I hope the Rustys take note of this for the purpose of Grand Challenge route setting!

An extra 3 odd minutes at 3 in the morning wont affect many I think. Except the :scooter: wait they only go that fast anyway:innocent:

[clint640]

Noooo...

That is crazy, most of the Waioeka is pretty wide & well surfaced (as NZ gorge roads go) if they reckon that should be 80k then about 25% of NZ's sealed roads & 100% of any nice twistys are probably in danger of getting the same treatment, the whole of Coromandel for a start...

Cheers
Clint

[Albino]

That is crazy, most of the Waioeka is pretty wide & well surfaced (as NZ gorge roads go) if they reckon that should be 80k then about 25% of NZ's sealed roads & 100% of any nice twistys are probably in danger of getting the same treatment, the whole of Coromandel for a start...


The gorge isn't the first road to have dropped to 80kph recently, and nor will it be the last.

[Griff]

Agree 100%
Beautiful ride thru there - they can stick 80kph where the sun don't shine.
Mind you I have never seen cops thru the gorge.
Teach the fkers how to drive properly.

mmm.. Maybe they are all in a heap at the bottom of the gorge as per the earlier post:
A few tintops go too fast around some of the corners and drop off.
Wifey said what about the children in the cars of these dodgy drivers, maybe it'll help save them. Think of the children. I say thats just Darwinism.

[Beemer]

I hope the Rustys take note of this for the purpose of Grand Challenge route setting!

Ha, they'll probably time it for 3am so there won't be any cops around!

[kiwifruit]

80km/h is fast enough

[Big Dave]

80km/h is fast enough

for second gear.

[MSTRS]

80km/h is fast enough

for second gear.

Pah. Only halfway to redline in first!!

[Clivoris]

Mmmm. This not good thing. One of our best roads reduced to a choice between boredom or loss of licence. I have seen pleecemens on that road but fortunately while halfway round a corner and under the speed limit.
What's that saying? "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing". This is too important for men to manage. Surely there are some women up that way who can stop it happening.

[kiwifruit]

Pah. Only halfway to redline in first!!

BLOODY HOON!

[clint640]

The gorge isn't the first road to have dropped to 80kph recently, and nor will it be the last.

Yeah, but most places dropped to 80 lately have been areas with high traffic volumes &/or lots of intersections & driveways. The Waioeka gorge certainly doesn't fit under those criteria.

If Joe Noddy & co are falling off the road trying to do 70km/h round a corner marked as a 35 in the gorge an 80km/h limit ain't gunna save them.

Cheers
Clint

[Big Dave]

Mmmm. This not good thing. One of our best roads reduced to a choice between boredom or loss of licence. I have seen pleecemens on that road but fortunately while halfway round a corner and under the speed limit.
What's that saying? "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing". This is too important for men to manage. Surely there are some women up that way who can stop it happening.

Radar detector time. Get your wife to buy it.

[TygerTung]

The people who are crashing are probably not obaying the speed limit anyway.

It's not the straights which you usually crash anyway, only the corners, so maybe they should put some recomended speed signs up?

[Matt Bleck]

Sounds like the local councillors are on to it!

http://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/article.asp?aid=4895&iid=409&sud=27

edit; It's the farkin Jaffas!

[fergie]

the place is so isolated im sure the coppers will put it on low priorty to police.

[Morcs]

Beautiful stretch of road. Shame the gorge section is less than 30km on the run - then the rest is boring through lowlands all the way to gizzy.

Remember doing that road at new years, at 9am, sun, clear sky with the odd clouds around the hills, and a stretch of road so damn good I wish I lived in opotiki.

[Matt Bleck]

Beautiful stretch of road. Shame the gorge section is less than 30km on the run - then the rest is boring through lowlands all the way to gizzy.

Remember doing that road at new years, at 9am, sun, clear sky with the odd clouds around the hills, and a stretch of road so damn good I wish I lived in opotiki.


From the end of the Opotiki straight to the top of Tarffids Hill is about 58k's I think or are you talking about where it really tightens up at the Matawai end? I don't mind the drive from Matawai on to Gizzy, nice flowing turns, not excatley straight. :Punk:

[clint640]

It's not the straights which you usually crash anyway, only the corners, so maybe they should put some recomended speed signs up?

The Waioeka Gorge is an absolute forest of recommended speed signs of all shapes & sizes on virtually all the corners. The only thing another sign with an actual limit on it would achieve is to make revenue gathering more lucrative on the few short straights that are the motorist's only opportunity to avoid following a smoky logging truck for 50km.

Cheers
Clint

[Stirts]

Sounds like the local councillors are on to it!

http://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/article.asp?aid=4895&iid=409&sud=27


I agree with Hemi, I have been through there countless times (in car) and the "dawdlers" are the ones that cause problems, should the police not take this into consideration and put SOME focus on "dawdlers" and not just the speeders....oh wait sorry, silly me, we are talking about the police here.

"they needed to set a limit that catered to a range of drivers, depending on their experience and how well they knew the road"
WTF......Yeah let's set the rules for the lowest common denominator YET AGAIN!

Surely if they can increase the number of passing lanes and slow vehicle bays ...problem solved...or that too simple????

[Kflasher]

For those who have ridden, or plan to go riding through the Waioeka gorge, transit is planning to reduce the speed limit to 80km.

The Waioeka gorge is State Highway 2 between Opotiki and Gisborne. Worth the ride and to double back again just to make sure.

Those who live in gisborne there is an open public meeting at Lawson field building on Monday the 16th July 4 pm to 7pm(?) where the public can have their say.
Transit say it'l add only 3.5 mins to the average punters trip, bah!

A few tintops go too fast around some of the corners and drop off.

Wifey said what about the children in the cars of these dodgy drivers, maybe it'll help save them. Think of the children.

I say thats just Darwinism.

Thats just farken wrong, i played in that gorge whist living in the G-Town.
Great ride on any bike, i would say to anyone to go and have a play.

[limbimtimwim]

It's cheaper to slap up some 80km/h signs than add some passing lanes.

[Clivoris]

Radar detector time. Get your wife to buy it.

Now that's what I call helpful advice. I will tell her that "Big Dave" said it was necessary. If only she stopped spending money on feeding our blardy kids I could get one immediately.

[SPman]

Perhaps some of the dozy twonks should start reading stuff like this

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/speedlimits.html

Speed limits do little to modify the speed of traffic, and should never be used to attempt to modify the speed of traffic. The idea of lowering a speed limit and enforcing it by camera which is so common these days is a case of falling into the "speed limit trap". It's a dangerous mistake because it shifts vital responsibility away from drivers. (click here)

I like the "unrealistically slow" comment about advisory signs - aint that the truth! I think they are all set by what a 1954 Austin A40 can comfortably lurch around ......

[xwhatsit]

Perhaps some of the dozy twonks should start reading stuff like this

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/speedlimits.html


I like the "unrealistically slow" comment about advisory signs - aint that the truth! I think they are all set by what a 1954 Austin A40 can comfortably lurch around ......

<hints id="hah_hints"></hints>As long as they're consistent. That quote from whoever the boss of such-and-such was good -- they need to be set for such a wide variety of vehicles, all you can use them as like a `score' -- the lower the score, the slower you have to go. As long as score 25 corners are consistently marked 25 it's not a problem. You get into trouble when a 50 corner turns out to be actually a 25 corner.

[Hitcher]

I think that all of these roads where Transit feels compelled to lower the speed limit to improve their safety would be made safer if the limits were raised to, say, 120kmh. On that basis people should concentrate harder and take more care than they would nerdling along at 80kmh. I suggest they do a trial, starting with Centennial Highway.

[Holy Roller]

Perhaps some of the dozy twonks should start reading stuff like this

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/speedlimits.html


I like the "unrealistically slow" comment about advisory signs - aint that the truth! I think they are all set by what a 1954 Austin A40 can comfortably lurch around ......

Arn't the signs set to allow for the worst conditions and type of vechicle ie a truck in the wet fully loaded taking into account camber and degree of turn in the corner not for your bog standard Ford or Holden let alone a super modified sticky tyred crotch rocket singing a sweet tune from the zorst.:Punk:

[janno]

In Aus the speed signs for corners are for fully laden trucks, not meant for car drivers at all.

I thought NZ was the same.

Over 50kph signs I ad 20k. Under 50kph I find that speed fairly accurate for my style of riding and driving, unless I know the road exceptionally well and then judge it on past experience.

[rustys]

F##K, there goes my Race track practise strip, no the road backwards, best piece road in the country on a motorcycle, "as long as you ride to the conditions in there". Boy will i be at that meeting Monday night. Hate riding it at night now since they have put up all those big signs, they bloody dazzel the shit out of you with your lights on high beam, can hardly see where the road goes.
If it ends up at 80klm i'll go to sleep, probably end up over a bank somewhere, from the bottom of Traffords hill to Opotiki normally 25 min burst of fun on the R6.
Most of the accidents in there generally occur in bad conditions, and people not driving to them.
I have lived my whole life between Opotiki and Gisborne, love both places, can't understand some dumb twat trying to do this to us?
Go and give my two cents worth Monday.
Thanks "Brutus" for letting us in on whats happening:angry:

[Chrislost]

Pah. Only halfway to redline in first!!

+ 1
i think the wheel is only just coming up at that:shutup:

[rustys]

BIG DEAL THAT WAS, so much for that meeting, went down in the pouring rain, few posters on the wall etc planing on what the're proposing, couple dudes there from "Transit" and "Opus".
About 40 people in attendance, from trucking firms to general tin top drivers and a few of the two wheel lads there. In general most were opposed to the restrictions, so fill out the form, yes or no, drop it in the box, and that was it.
Local paper guys were there and got told in no uncertain terms that those who were there wer'nt happy with the way things were being done. No one from the Transport dept were there, but have been told that they are not interested anyway.
So we will see what eventuates here? Give you's a report when the paper comes out tomorrow.
Cheers

[Sanx]

I think the official response goes something like this:

"Thank you for your concerns. They have been duly noted and will be filed. We have a commitment to consult with the public and we take this very seriously. We have consulted. We do not, however, have a commitment to listen; and we haven't.

Regards,

The Mad Mullahs of Land Transport New Zealand."

[cooneyr]

Corner speed ADVISORY (not compulsory) speed signs are generally set so that the at the advised speed there is 0.2g sideways. Different vehicles respond differently to sideways G's (obviously) but using this method the corner advisory speed signs should be consistent for similar corner speeds.

I'm a Engineer and what I find interesting (worrying) about this is that in the Gizy herald there are these three points


Loss of control was generally a factor, as well as driving too fast for the conditions, poor observation, handling judgement and fatigue. (too fast for the conditions is another way of saying loss of control)


Areas with asphalt and low skid resistance had been resurfaced with chip seal and rest areas were improved.

and


The statistics showed a significant drop in accidents for 2005 and Mayor Meng Foon and Bill Burdett both asked if a reduced speed limit was necessary in light of the improved figures.

Mr Govender said crashes often hit a lull for a while after road improvements, but Transit preferred to look at trends rather than on a one off year.

I'm assuming that the chip seal was laid before 2005 in the following.

These points i.e. loss of control is a primary factor, areas of asphalt that have been chipsealed (skid resistance improved) and a drop in crashes since the chipseal has been laid.

I would seriously suggest that the skid resistance of the surfacing is a far more important factor than human error. They should be improving the skid resistance of a number of the key corners, not doing anything for 3 to 5 years , reassessing the crash rates and then if necessary looking at other measures.

Cheers R

[clint640]

Corner speed ADVISORY (not compulsory) speed signs are generally set so that the at the advised speed there is 0.2g sideways. Different vehicles respond differently to sideways G's (obviously) but using this method the corner advisory speed signs should be consistent for similar corner speeds.


Has this 0.2g level always been the mark? Over the last couple of years I've encountered some corners newly posted as 35 or 45 that seemed ridiculous - even the aforementioned 1954 A40 could do near 100 around them.

The gorge used to have only a few 35 corners, now despite many improvements there seem to be a lot more???

Cheers
Clint

[cooneyr]

Has this 0.2g level always been the mark? Over the last couple of years I've encountered some corners newly posted as 35 or 45 that seemed ridiculous - even the aforementioned 1954 A40 could do near 100 around them.

The gorge used to have only a few 35 corners, now despite many improvements there seem to be a lot more???

Cheers
Clint

It "use" to be the case but maybe they are trying to be "clever" and take into account skid resistance etc.

They uses to use a sideways thrust gauge which is two pieces of perspex with a parabolic ish curve grooved into the back of one of them then they are stuck together so that the groove is sealed except for the two ends i.e. forms a tube. The tube is filled with water, a ball bearing put in it and the ends sealed. When you go around a corner the ball bearing moves up the grove and the scale is read.

Was kinda fun trying to get the readings if you are on your own as you are trying to read the scale and drive a corner at the same time and sometimes you have no idea how fast the corner should be i.e. can be going far to fast :D

This whole saga seems a little bit weird to me.

Kaikoura coast near the tunnels went through a similar exercise but the stupid thing is that cars have no troubles but trucks keep falling off. Cant just slow trucks down cause cars end up the trucks arse worse so blank 80kph was applied. This was nothing to do with skid resistance though and I agree with the 80kph even though was lots of fun at 100kph.

Cheers R

[Clivoris]

BIG DEAL THAT WAS, so much for that meeting, went down in the pouring rain, few posters on the wall etc planing on what the're proposing, couple dudes there from "Transit" and "Opus".
About 40 people in attendance, from trucking firms to general tin top drivers and a few of the two wheel lads there. In general most were opposed to the restrictions, so fill out the form, yes or no, drop it in the box, and that was it.
Local paper guys were there and got told in no uncertain terms that those who were there wer'nt happy with the way things were being done. No one from the Transport dept were there, but have been told that they are not interested anyway.
So we will see what eventuates here? Give you's a report when the paper comes out tomorrow.
Cheers

Top marks for going anyway mate.

[Hitcher]

Kaikoura coast near the tunnels went through a similar exercise but the stupid thing is that cars have no troubles but trucks keep falling off. Cant just slow trucks down cause cars end up the trucks arse worse so blank 80kph was applied. This was nothing to do with skid resistance though and I agree with the 80kph even though was lots of fun at 100kph.

Is it a mandatory requirement that "road safety engineers" must be barking-mad twats?

Any driver/rider, of trucks or any motorised vehicle, who thinks that travelling at the legal speed limit (irrespective of road conditions) is a mandatory requirement, deserves to plummet to their doom. Simple Darwinism. Caution, may contain hot liquid.

[cooneyr]

Is it a mandatory requirement that "road safety engineers" must be barking-mad twats?

Any driver/rider, of trucks or any motorised vehicle, who thinks that travelling at the legal speed limit (irrespective of road conditions) is a mandatory requirement, deserves to plummet to their doom. Simple Darwinism. Caution, may contain hot liquid.

I'm not a road safety engineer so I wouldn't know :D

I agree with the comments about mandatory requirement to travel at the posted limit - thats plain stupid in some situations, a challenge in others and utterly boring in others. Simple solution - learn how to read the road and "drive to the conditions if they change reduce you speed" (are we ever allowed to speed up!?)

Cheers R

[rustys]

Back on the case. Meeting a "roadshow" reports the "Gissy herald" today.

Between 1999 and 2004 Transit recorded 11 fatalities in the Gorge. Well over $3 million-worth of safety works had been done since then and there had been only one fatality from 2004 until so far this year.

Displays presented last night showed between 1997 and 2004 there were 108 crashes in the gorge. The reasons for them were,
1 LOSS OF CONTROL 77 percent
2 ICY OR WET CONDITIONS 53 percent
3 HITTING THE BANK OR RIVER 49 percent
4 INVOLVMENT OF TRUCKS 20 percent
5 FAILURE TO KEEP LEFT 9 percent

The level of local opposition did not suprise Daya Govinder Transit NewZealands central district area engineer.

Not only is the "Waioeka gorge" being targeted 80 kl per hr area so is the "Karangahape gorge " between Waihi and Paeroa.
Heaven help us.

[MSTRS]

.... targeted 80 kl per hr area so is the "Karangahape gorge " between Waihi and Paeroa.
Heaven help us.

Already is, I believe. And double yellows the whole length of it. As is the Manawatu Gorge.

[Clivoris]

How long till they target the Rimutakas?

[saltydog]

Let them do what they want, you maybe maybe might see a cop just out of Opotiki but never in the gorge. The other side however is a different story. I've ALWAYS seen a cop on the way into Gissy. So stuff it, ride as fast as you feel comfortable with, the gorge is iconic lets keep it that way.

[saltydog]

F##K, there goes my Race track practise strip, no the road backwards, best piece road in the country on a motorcycle, "as long as you ride to the conditions in there". Boy will i be at that meeting Monday night. Hate riding it at night now since they have put up all those big signs, they bloody dazzel the shit out of you with your lights on high beam, can hardly see where the road goes.
If it ends up at 80klm i'll go to sleep, probably end up over a bank somewhere, from the bottom of Traffords hill to Opotiki normally 25 min burst of fun on the R6.
Most of the accidents in there generally occur in bad conditions, and people not driving to them.
I have lived my whole life between Opotiki and Gisborne, love both places, can't understand some dumb twat trying to do this to us?
Go and give my two cents worth Monday.
Thanks "Brutus" for letting us in on whats happening:angry:


hear hear!!

[Matt Bleck]

More (http://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/article.asp?aid=10279&iid=777&sud=27) on this from the Gisborne Hearld website.

[webfoot]

Hi all,

See www.WaioekaGorge.co.nz to add your thoughts to the debate - and to see some things that you can do to let "the powers that be" know your thoughts,

Cheers and thanks
Rus
www.WaioekaGorge.co.nz

[Matt Bleck]

thanks webfoot!

[Matt Bleck]

Eastland Tourism Exc is not happy about the proposed speed restriction either.

"There is already a perception that the gorge is a barrier to visitors and we see no good reason to give that perception any more weight than it already has,"

More here. (http://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/article.asp?aid=10332&iid=781&sud=27)

[CRM]

Awesome road - went through last week. Also the road from Rotorua to Opotiki was amazing. Good to hear they've backed off taking the limit down - but those are the kind of places where you just forget about the speedo anyway and ride to the conditions which I reckon is a way safer way of riding anyway :innocent:.

[shafty]

Good pix CRM - did you use a timer and trot back to the bike?

Looks like a nice day too

[CRM]

Good pix CRM - did you use a timer and trot back to the bike?

Looks like a nice day too

Yeah - a bit of a poser eh? :innocent: But it proves I was there. It was an awesome day - the whole trip Whangarei down the East Coast to Welly then back up the middle was fantastic. The last of the good riding weather I reckon - getting too dark to do long days now.

[LBD]

I hope the Rustys take note of this for the purpose of Grand Challenge route setting!

NNNoooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

I went through there for the first time on the 10K....warm sunny day....Can't wait to go back....but not at 80 (plus a bit) Pppllllleeeaaaasssseeee


Edit 1....Just read the end of the thread...Phew!

Edit 2....Just noticed the dates of the thread and the last post....I always fall into that trap.