Petrol issue

[nudemetalz]

Mrs Nudie came home from work this afternoon on the Guzzi.
First thing I noticed was it's poor idle. It was really rough and this concerned me a little.
She said it was going just fine until she filled it up with 98 Ultimate in town.
So it's obviously a bad batch of fuel. Pisses me off that the fact we pay more for it per litre and it's worse !!!

Anyone else had this issue?

[sunhuntin]

is it normally run on 98?

all i can suggest is at least ring the station and let them know they may have bad fuel.

i was talking to the tanker driver when he came in the other night... he says theres a shut off in the tank that operates the instant another type of fuel is detected [ie, diesel leaking into 91] so it doesnt get into the main tank. they may have water in there [the site tanks] and will need to test for it.

[xwhatsit]

I had something similar recently with BP 98. Died quite a few times pulling up to the lights, just switched off without even a cough. Even more difficult starting than usual, mid-throttle farting, all kinds of bad shit. I knew it was the fuel, as it started only a few kms after I left the service station, so I just drained it into the mower's fuel supply and filled up again with 95 from down the road.

Didn't think to ring the fuel station, sunhuntin, that's a good idea. Pain in the arse, though -- wouldn't buy 98 for the mower, so it's wasted money really, even though it runs fine on it. I go out of my way to fill up at BP for the 98, as it seems to make my over-advanced ignition run cooler.

[nudemetalz]

I rang the garage. They weren't overly concerned, so I rang the 0800 number.
Outside hours unfort.

I normally run it on Challenge fuel as I know that is the best fuel being part of Gull Petroleum and not Mobil. They import their own fuel.
Challenge Newlands just closed down last week :( so figured next best fuel would be 98 Ult.
How wrong I was !!
So we're going to go out to Challenge Porirua to fill up from now on.

[TKDSKIP]

I had something similar recently with BP 98. Died quite a few times pulling up to the lights, just switched off without even a cough. Even more difficult starting than usual, mid-throttle farting, all kinds of bad shit.
My bike just started doing the same thing this morning after its first taste of BP98. May have to take the tank off as it has a vacum operated tap. I wonder if BP would my labour bill.

[thehovel]

Challenge Petroleum is owned by Caltex which is part of Chevron NZ. The only independent importer is Gull. :innocent:

Quote from Challenge's web site
"Challenge was launched as a competitor in the New Zealand petroleum market in 1998. The brand was "born and bred" in New Zealand and we're proud of it!
During 2001 Caltex New Zealand acquired Challenge Petroleum. Today, Challenge is one of the brands operated by Chevron in New Zealand and it is managed as a brand that stands for kiwi independence, value for money, down-to-earth service and being genuine with our valued customers"

Now do Google search on Chevron NZ and you get Caltex which is supplied from Marsden Point,same as Shell ,Mobil & BP. Better known as the Ugly Sisters of the oil industry.Also their address is 5 Caltex House Fanshawe St Auckland.

I have had dirty fuel from Shell & Mobil. Also remember when the contaminated diesel came out of Marsden Point :shit:the only clean fuel was Gull.

[Madness]

I normally run it on Challenge fuel as I know that is the best fuel being part of Gull Petroleum and not Mobil. They import their own fuel........So we're going to go out to Challenge Porirua to fill up from now on.

What that guy above me said is correct. Best you ride to the nearest Gull from now on. That'd be Masterton by my reckoning.

Incidently, I filled up with BP 98 from Melling today, running like a dream :love:

[nudemetalz]

Ah oops, you're right. Duh me !!
Challenge is part of Caltex. I got my wires crossed. I did know that Gull is independent but Masterton is a wee way away to fill up every time.

Looks like I'll have to dump the fuel and buy another batch from another garage :angry2:

[sunhuntin]

not sure that the individual station would fit the bill, as the petrol we get is what we get. until someone tells us of a problem, theres nothing we could do. and even if we get told, i think all we could do would be to stop selling that grade until the tank is drained and refilled.
you might have to chase bp itself, or their importer to cover any major bills.

personally, i never run my bike on anything but 91. my parents use 95 in their cars.

good luck getting the bike back in order, guys!! luckily only one of the 4 bps here in town has 98... and its not the one i work at! *dances*

[NotaGoth]

Put 30 of 91 in the car I'm borrowing off my old lady.. Was so I could get to work today and fill up completely in Kerikeri..

Started mums car.. Backed up... Went to put it in 1st and drive off.. Managed to stall....

Car won't start... Filled up 2 days ago.. Drove 5 mins.. Parked up now the car does that..

Wondered if its water in the fuel which is highly likely at the moment..

Worst thing is... I'd say I'll end up with the sack..

[nudemetalz]

Just a pain in the backside having to do this. Petrol is not cheap and went it's relelgated to the mower, well, rather frustrating.

Mr Guzzi in Italy recommends a minimum of 95 for the V11 with preferred being 98 (I guess it's cause of all the old-tech in the engine :yes:).

[Brett]

Funny you say that...I put in Mobil 98 today and have had a rough idle all day...Odd.

[Wasp]

I usually use the j'ville '98 but last fill up was mana - havnt noticed anything

[R1madness]

There is a comon point being raised here.

91 is the most stable fuel because it has the least addatives to stop it detonating. The more stuff they add to the fuel the quicker it goes off due to evaperation etc.
I have been told by someone who should know (a fuel techinican) that the fuel types go something like this

91 for all modern engines cars and bikes.
95 for old stuff like HQ holdens etc
98 for lamborgini and farrari etc.

Part of the problem is the density of the fuel (as the grade goes up so does the density) making it harder for the bike to draw fuel out of the carbs. Hence it runs a little leaner. As most bikes are a little rich (due to carb wear, air filter dirty etc) the leaner running makes it look and feel cleaner.
However if your bike is not set up to run on the gas it may not burn at the correct time (remember we are talking miliseconds here) ie too late and you end up with a wet mixture in the combustion chamber as the exhaust valve opens, the plug does not have sufficent heat to dry itseld and suddenly cough cough splutter. fouled plug. Bugger.
There is no guarentee that any fuel here is any good. But it is all to do with economics, i can supply ELF motor spirit (its not petrol but a dedicated race fuel) for about $6 per litre but i bet you will not pay that for your road bike.

[Deviant Esq]

Interesting. I thought for a long time that the higher octane fuels were better for a higher compression engine... but I've found it not to be the case. For ages I ran my NZ250 on 96 (now 95) or 98, depending on the petrol station I went to. Anyway, using around 8 litres of fuel it would return somewhere between 175 and 195 km before it needed a refill.

Then I read something about the difference between the fuel octanes, I think it was on KB somewhere, a search will probably dredge it up, and thought I'd give 91 a try after that. What a difference! Suddenly the bike was running better, smoother, and seemed to be returning slightly better power. On top of that, I was getting anything from 210 to 240 km out of those same 8 litres... as well as the fuel costing less at the pump.

[nudemetalz]

Well BP rang me up and took all my details.
I said that the bike is now running okay but they still said they are going to send me a $20 petrol voucher for my inconvenience.
How's that for customer service !!! :)

[janno]

Well BP rang me up and took all my details.
I said that the bike is now running okay but they still said they are going to send me a $20 petrol voucher for my inconvenience.
How's that for customer service !!! :)

Traitor!! Hush money . . . :dodge:

[vifferman]

Just a note - like Gull's petrol, the BP 98 doesn't come from Marsden Point but comes in by tanker (unless of course, the petrol companies are lying...)

My VFR runs better on 98 than 91 or 95, except in winter, when it's a little harder to start on the 98.

My VFR750 wouldn't run on 95 at all - it fouled the plugs VERY badly, due to them having such tiny electrodes and the 95 just being 91 with more xylene and toluene (basically paint-brush cleaner!) added to boost the octane rating.

Interestingly (or not), there was a lot of fuss (and some prosecutions) in Western Australia when I was last there because some servo owners were buying cheap low octane petrol, adding xylene and toluene to it, and selling it as Premium. Funny how "The Gang of Four" can do that here quite legally and with the Gubmint's apparent blessing! It's a good wicket for them, because otherwise they'd have to spend millions on upgrading the refinery, and would have all these crap hydrocarbons there's not a huge market for...

[avgas]

I had it with 3 batches of Mobil 91. Ran rough as guts (like i was running diesel/fuel mix)
needless to say only if its the last thing on earth do i use that same fuel

[TLMAN]

Since i read this thread a week ago i have used two tanks of 91 instead of the usual 98. It seems to run and start heaps better on 91 so i think ill stick with it.

[swbarnett]

91 for all modern engines cars and bikes.
95 for old stuff like HQ holdens etc
98 for lamborgini and farrari etc.


Curious... I run the car (1994 Accord) and the GN on 98 and both get better mileage and have more power than when I ran them on 91.

[imdying]

Since i read this thread a week ago i have used two tanks of 91 instead of the usual 98. It seems to run and start heaps better on 91 so i think ill stick with it.My SV is the 06, so slightly higher compression than the earlier ones, not sure how the compression ratio/squish etc compares with the TL, but it to runs great on 91 :yes:

[Multiman]

Okay so maybe i have a problem and I don't know it??? I have run the Guzzi on 91 and 98 both BP... I can't tell the difference?? the bike runs fine on either fuel perhaps 98 is just a re badged 91 with delusions of granduer??

I think you may have had a bit of water in the fuel Nudes maybe going naked causes sweat to drip in the tank??

[babyblade250rr]

i was always told that later model bike well post 88-90 run on 91 as that's what they were designed or tuned to run on

please correct me if im wrong

[peasea]

Be corrected.

Our fuel is crap and I'll tell you why.

NZ fuel companies buy cheap crude and it'll only make cheap gas.

Buy imported, like Gull (either octane) or BP's Ultimate. We feed four machines on those brews and everything's fine. When we switch, for whatever reason (out of town etc), the idle quality suffers, mileage suffers and pinking occurs. What more can I tell you? We do heaps of k's on the bikes and in the cars and I've got 30-plus years behind me as an engine builder. I know what shit gas is and we've got shit gas.

[babyblade250rr]

Be corrected.

Our fuel is crap and I'll tell you why.

NZ fuel companies buy cheap crude and it'll only make cheap gas.

Buy imported, like Gull (either octane) or BP's Ultimate. We feed four machines on those brews and everything's fine. When we switch, for whatever reason (out of town etc), the idle quality suffers, mileage suffers and pinking occurs. What more can I tell you? We do heaps of k's on the bikes and in the cars and I've got 30-plus years behind me as an engine builder. I know what shit gas is and we've got shit gas.

Right i'll have to put this to the test next fill up, I'm going to gull!! so far i've been using caltex,Shell,Mobil(The worst so far i believe) all using 91 but gull is next on the agenda

:Punk:

[xwhatsit]

Curious... I run the car (1994 Accord) and the GN on 98 and both get better mileage and have more power than when I ran them on 91.

Probably just your mind playing tricks, at least with the GN (don't know anything about '94 Accords). The GN, being carburettored, has no facility for self-adjustment to avoid detonation. Hence, the added anti-detonation abilities of 98 (not that the GN would be knocking on 91 anyway) go wasted. On a high-compression fuel injected bike which might knock at full advance on 91, the ECU will retard the spark if it detects knocking, so you will lose some power. Run it on 95/98, the knocking will not occur, ECU will run at full advance, and you'll get more power.

I run my CB on 98 as it has either an over-advanced ignition, or other carburettion issues, so runs too hot and fries sparkplugs. At the moment, in winter, and with 98, it runs cool enough to largely avoid this as long as I don't sit in traffic too long. If it was in perfect nick, I'd run it on 91, and would probably run and start better, as it's a more `volatile' fuel.<hints id="hah_hints"></hints>

[Conquiztador]

"Octane number measures whether a petrol is likely to cause knock in an engine. Knocking or pinking is caused by self-ignition in the engine's cylinders, which happens when the petrol/air vapour mixture in the cylinder ignites before the spark is passed by the spark plug. This premature ignition pushes against the crankshaft instead of with it, producing a knocking or pinging sound. Knocking causes the engine to overheat and lose power, and it can damage the engine in the long run.

The way to avoid knocking is to use petrol with a sufficiently high octane number. The higher the octane number, the more resistant the petrol is to the self-ignition that causes knocking."

[xwhatsit]

"Octane number measures whether a petrol is likely to cause knock in an engine. Knocking or pinking is caused by self-ignition in the engine's cylinders, which happens when the petrol/air vapour mixture in the cylinder ignites before the spark is passed by the spark plug. This premature ignition pushes against the crankshaft instead of with it, producing a knocking or pinging sound. Knocking causes the engine to overheat and lose power, and it can damage the engine in the long run.

The way to avoid knocking is to use petrol with a sufficiently high octane number. The higher the octane number, the more resistant the petrol is to the self-ignition that causes knocking."

<hints id="hah_hints"></hints>Exactly. Octane number has nothing to do with the amount of `power' in the fuel or anything like that. Any extra power you get is from indirect sources, like fuel injection with tricky modern ECUs.

As an aside, I filled up with BP 98 today and it seems (as usual) a very nice bit of slosh; apart from the crazy drunk old man abusing patrons and standing in front of cars so they couldn't move lol. Was really hoping he didn't come anywhere near me but he just stared :D

Forecourt staff just looked on as if it was a normal occurrence.

[Roj]

I always use 95 (96 when that was about) I get 10% better economy in my cage than compared to 91, at the moment the price difference is around 3%, so it comes down to economics, :yes:

I don't normally bother with 98 as it doesn't normally gain anything on the economy,

My bikes are older so they are better on 95 than 91, but I aslo throw some upper cylinder lube in for luck:scooter: