No idle = More engine braking

[Spyke]

I was told by a bloke that when racing its good to have your bikes idle set so it'l die if 0 throttle is used, therefore when racing your getting more engine braking. is this true? or is it better to have the bike at normal idle

[roadracingoldfart]

If you do that it will make alot of other aspects of the bike very annoying . personally i wouldnt do it. Try it to see what you think and then you can decide yourself aye.

[FROSTY]

Totally the oposite. Wind up the idle.

[Spyke]

i did this on my ct125, the only downside i had was i constanly had to blip the throttle wen i was stopped. but does it give any advantage with engine breaking?

[ZeroIndex]

Why exactly would you want more engine braking? I have my idle turned up when I do stunts etc, and Frosty turns his SV up to like 3k when he goes on the track... I would imagine it would be more jerky having no idle than anything...

[Spyke]

the reason would be so when your coming into a corner where you have to brake, the brakes get helped by the motor reducing its revs and slowing acting as a rear brake in effect.

[ZeroIndex]

the reason would be so when your coming into a corner where you have to brake, the brakes get helped by the motor reducing its revs and slowing acting as a rear brake in effect.
Why not just use your brakes instead? That's what they're there for anyway... Of course engine braking does make a difference, but dropping it to 0 isn't gonna help anything...

[tri boy]

Used to set up the speedway sidecar that way. But we had no brakes. It used to help in that case.
Sealed track, not so sure.:mellow:

[Tim 39]

we do it on 125's because it does help (they have little engine braking) to slow the bike on the entry after releasing the brakes. on a four stroke a lot of people wind up the idle, so there is less engine braking so less chance of a lockup. so it depends really...

[Spyke]

Why not just use your brakes instead? That's what they're there for anyway... Of course engine braking does make a difference, but dropping it to 0 isn't gonna help anything...

the power goes through the back wheel, if the power is still there as your braking the rear brake will be working against the power, thus wasting valuable braking time?

[Spyke]

we do it on 125's because it does help (they have little engine braking) to slow the bike on the entry after releasing the brakes. on a four stroke a lot of people wind up the idle, so there is less engine braking so less chance of a lockup. so it depends really...
i see your point if you were on a big vtwin that would lock up without the revs resonably easy, i suppose it really depends on what type of bike your on.

[ZeroIndex]

the power goes through the back wheel, if the power is still there as your braking the rear brake will be working against the power, thus wasting valuable braking time?
I'm not talking about winding the idle to 4000rpm on a 11k redline... i'm talking of 1500rpm - 2000rpm max...

[GSVR]

I was told by a bloke that when racing its good to have your bikes idle set so it'l die if 0 throttle is used, therefore when racing your getting more engine braking. is this true? or is it better to have the bike at normal idle

If your braking really hard the rear wheel will have little or no contact with the ground and the engine brakes will lock the back wheel and cause it to hop. This happens especailly going into a really tight hairpin when you have to hook a low gear and are setting a low entry speed.

Also there will be no transition between being on the gas an off it so when you get to the apex or point where you hit the gas again unless you have the throttle cracked open slightly there will be a jerk from the backlash in your drivechain. This all helps to unsettle the bike and reduces the level of grip the tyres have.

I personally don't like to have my idle wound right up but would never have it too low either.

[ZeroIndex]

If your braking really hard the rear wheel will have little or no contact with the ground and the engine brakes will lock the back wheel and cause it to hop. This happens especailly going into a really tight hairpin when you have to hook a low gear and are setting a low entry speed.

Also there will be no transition between being on the gas an off it so when you get to the apex or point where you hit the gas again unless you have the throttle cracked open slightly there will be a jerk from the backlash in your drivechain. This all helps to unsettle the bike and reduces the level of grip the tyres have.

I personally don't like to have my idle wound right up but would never have it too low either.
+1 That's what I was talking about

[TonyB]

On my 2 stroke bucket racer I have the idle speed quite high so that it pushes me through the corner, I prefer riding that way. I haven't tried that with my Ducati yet, but I probably will.

[texmo]

Reducing the lag between off brakes and on gas. The moment you release the brake there will be a lag as you orient yourself to the speed you have. Focusing on that lag can shorten it.


The above quote was taken from Keith Codes web site. (http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?act=idx)4. One of the things he stresses is to get on the gas as quickly as possible.
Shaun wound the idle up on my bike as he explained its very hard to get on the gas due to mental blocks and winding up the idel helps you get over this. When he went to japan to race they did the same on his bike to begin with.
So weather or not it increases your engine braking by winding down your idle its probbalby more ideal to wind your idle up.
If you read the fourms he also talks in there some where about not to bother with engine braking as your rear brake works better.

[ZeroIndex]

Reducing the lag between off brakes and on gas. The moment you release the brake there will be a lag as you orient yourself to the speed you have. Focusing on that lag can shorten it.


The above quote was taken from Keith Codes web site. (http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?act=idx)4. One of the things he stresses is to get on the gas as quickly as possible.
Shaun wound the idle up on my bike as he explained its very hard to get on the gas due to mental blocks and winding up the idel helps you get over this. When he went to japan to race they did the same on his bike to begin with.
So weather or not it increases your engine braking by winding down your idle its probbalby more ideal to wind your idle up.
If you read the fourms he also talks in there some where about not to bother with engine braking as your rear brake works better.

+1 :clap: good stuff

[Spyke]

looks like i'll be trying a few different ways of setting it up when i start racing again (try all the other ways to see the effects), thanks for the knowledge guys

[GSVR]

I think most here assumed you were talking about roadracing. Now after looking at your bike (Looking for a dirtbike project) I'm wondering if you may have been asking this question in relation to dirtbike riding.

[Spyke]

no i was asking in the direction of road racing, i did have a ct125 that i was racing at the bucket meets (didn't have a problem of the engine locking it up). but now im looking at getting a dirtbike for a cheap project so i can get some experience at the mechanical side and to learn how to do wheelies!.

[moT]

i just have my idle at the factory reccomended rpm this is fine for me.. but if you feel you can race faster with idle on 6000rpm or 0rpm then go for it

[TygerTung]

In keith codes book a twist of thr wrist, it recomended that you didn't actually use the engine for braking, as it is unpredictable.

If you're braking hard the back wheel isn't really touching the ground anyway as long as you have reasonable front brakes, so I wouldn't do it:scooter:

[sAsLEX]

In keith codes book a twist of thr wrist, it recomended that you didn't actually use the engine for braking, as it is unpredictable.

If you're braking hard the back wheel isn't really touching the ground anyway as long as you have reasonable front brakes, so I wouldn't do it:scooter:

Some of the newer engine management systems have changed this by having some of the butterflies remain open on a closed throttle to try modulate the engine braking effect.

[scumdog]

If you read the fourms he also talks in there some where about not to bother with engine braking as your rear brake works better.

There was a thread running about ten days or more back about the guy who had posted he had a faulty rear brake but was it needed anyway?.

A heap seemed to think a rear brake was just a decoration rather than something useful, maybe they should take note of THIS thread eh?.

[texmo]

There was a thread running about ten days or more back about the guy who had posted he had a faulty rear brake but was it needed anyway?.

A heap seemed to think a rear brake was just a decoration rather than something useful, maybe they should take note of THIS thread eh?.

Maby, Pushing down on the rear brake just before you brake hard on the front can help stablize the bike. But it all depends like everything on the riders style. Wehn you are braking really hard you rear wheel shouldnt be on the ground any who.

[codgyoleracer]

Adjusting the idel will depend on your riding style, type of track you are riding at and the track conditions. There can be some advantages in road racing with a higher idle speed if grip at the rear wheel is reduced. Lowering idle speed will brake the rear wheel longer into the corner - but I dont know if you could tell the differenc ebetween 1200 - 900 rpm (300rpm diff). If you set it at zero & balls up your down changing , get stuck betwen shifts or wahtever , there is a chance that the engine will stall during corner entry. This will be a pain when you let the cutch out again & stab it back into gear (especially if grip levels are low).
Typically you would increase the idle speed a little for road race use to suit your application / machine / conditons.:yes:

[DEATH_INC.]

I reckon it'd be a bitch....stalling all the time and the huge hesitation going from off to on throttle would unsettle the bike soooo much....
I run at least 3000rpm idle....and as for the rear brake being a decoration, I can hardly ride without it.....

[sAsLEX]

I run at least 3000rpm idle....and as for the rear brake being a decoration, I can hardly ride without it.....

Do use it when on the back wheel much?

[Drew]

The amount of gas the bike is getting at idle, is so low, that I dont think it would make any positive difference.

Test it, ride along at a hundred k's, and back the throttle off by fuck all, and see how much it slows down, that's the amount of help it would give.

What Death said about the hesitation would surely be a mongrell too.

If it's a fuel injected bike you try it on, it could very well cause some problems since they regulate thier own idle now'a'days anyway.

[DEATH_INC.]

Do use it when on the back wheel much?


No, not at all.....

[Spyke]

cheers guys, would any of you know about twostroke idle? whats good for a single 185 mudbug twostroke?

i know the two strokes hav no engine braking.

[ZeroIndex]

cheers guys, would any of you know about twostroke idle? whats good for a single 185 mudbug twostroke?

i know the two strokes hav no engine braking.
around 1250 never hurt my RG150, and that thing got it's neck ringed everywhere..

[Shaun P]

Just a point, modern fuel injected bikes have a fuel cut on deceleration so unless you mod it or have an adjustable ECU changing the idle makes no difference while in gear.