Were there seven or eight canoes (wakas)?

[Conquiztador]

Home work. No, not mine, but my boys ones. One of them needed to write down three of the names of the wakas that Maoris came to Aotearoa with (well, if you believe the myths anyhow). The homework asked him to write down three of the eight wakas. "Eight"? I said? "As far as I know there was only seven". I was even able to find a list of the seven: Tanui, Te Arawa, Mataatua, Horouta, Aotea, Takitimu and Tokomaru. But he was adamant that there was eight. And after some rummaging in his bag he came up with a eight one: Kurahaupo. I had never heard of that one.

I have been searching the web, but not really been able to find anything that clearly tells me what the original myth was stating. Even managed to find one that said there was at least eight to ten wakas.

So what is it? Is it seven (as I was made to believe) or eight or just as many as you can make up names for?

Anyone have a deeper insight then I have?

[Steam]

I think the eighth may have been the Maorioris, who they brought along for food on the voyage.

[SARGE]

sleepy, dopey, sneezy, doc....


they shoulda just done like the Samoans and waited for the 747's

[Conquiztador]

Anyone????

[Oakie]

For what it's worth, I thought there were only seven.

[janno]

The four houses at New Plymouth Girls are named after some of the canoes.

Tanui, Aotea, Tokomaru, Kurahaupo. So I guess Kurahaupo was one of them.

[Paul in NZ]

The internet is your friend....

http://www.takoa.co.nz/canoe_refpg1.htm

edit

This explains it a bit better

http://www.takoa.co.nz/canoe_refpg2.htm

[Filterer]

I have been searching the web, but not really been able to find anything .......



The internet is your friend....


Clearly they are not close friends!:dodge:

[Conquiztador]

The internet is your friend....

http://www.takoa.co.nz/canoe_refpg1.htm

edit

This explains it a bit better

http://www.takoa.co.nz/canoe_refpg2.htm

When counting all those I end up with about 20 of them...

There is the story/legend about how the Maori left Hawaiki and travelled here in their seven (I thought it was?) canoes and settled here. Then later others arrived.

That is what I am trying to establish, was it seven or eight or more wakas in that original legend how the ancestors of the Maori arrived?

[Maha]

Thinking back to school days i recall several
Wakazuki/Wakasaki/Wakamaha (which is still used today) Wakaprilia to name but a few. Interesting fact is that, in later years, motorcycle manufacturers (mostly Asian) put alot of Waka names to good use but i wouldn't let the Waitangi Tribunal in on that....:shutup:

[ManDownUnder]

How many per Waka?

I mean all you need to do is count the FOBs and divide by that number and you're sweet!

:dodge:

[peasea]

For what it's worth, I thought there were only seven.

Quite wrong; there were eight. Four pairs cruising in formation. The first four were Bayliners the second batch were Genesis II's. They were actually heading for Venice for an art exhibition but the GPS went out and here we are.......:whocares:

[peasea]

How many per Waka?

I mean all you need to do is count the FOBs and divide by that number and you're sweet!

:dodge:

Shouldn't that be SOB's?

[riffer]

When counting all those I end up with about 20 of them...

There is the story/legend about how the Maori left Hawaiki and travelled here in their seven (I thought it was?) canoes and settled here. Then later others arrived.

That is what I am trying to establish, was it seven or eight or more wakas in that original legend how the ancestors of the Maori arrived?

Read it again carefully and it'll make sense. There were eight canoes in the first sailing, and about a dozen followed after.

I guess the big trouble is that all Maori history was until fairly recently, oral only. Kinda like years and years of chinese whispers.

[peasea]

Read it again carefully and it'll make sense. There were eight canoes in the first sailing, and about a dozen followed after.

I guess the big trouble is that all Maori history was until fairly recently, oral only. Kinda like years and years of chinese whispers.

Which goes to show how accurate it is.

If this land belongs to anyone it's the Moriori's.

Face the front!

[terbang]

"...[during the 1890s]... many spurious traditions about [Maori] origins
began to gain wide acceptance. Some of these still hinder the study of New
Zealand prehistory today. One theory was the so-called 'Maruiwi myth',
which suggested that the first inhabitants of new Zealand had been a
different and probably inferior race to the later Maori. The resumption of
intensive archeological work in the South Island during the 1920s and 1930s
was partly in response to this theory.

"[this] archeological work....demonstrated the Polynesian nature of
moa-hunter assemblages and disproved the idea that the moa-hunters were an
earlier and different race from the Maori. Yet the idea of the inferior
and defeated Maruiwi or Moriori still lives on in the minds of modern New
Zealanders, confused with the Moriori of the Chatham Islands who were in
fact an isolated group of Polynesians, although very closely related to the
New Zealand Maori."

The Maruiwi was a Maori tribe (iwi) whose name is known from oral tradition
but which did not survive to the time of the settlement of New Zealand by
Europeans. Contrary to the assertions of the 19th century European
mythologizers of Maori origins, they were not a pre-Maori people. They
were probably wiped out in inter-tribal warfare during the 14th century or
later, i.e. hundreds of years after Polynesians settled what is now New
Zealand in the 9th century.

The European mythologizers of Maori origins, in particular S. Percy Smith,
who in 1892 founded the Polynesian society, noticed the similarity between
the word "Maruiwi" and the word "Moriori", the name of the indigenous
people of the Chatham Islands, which are located in the Pacific Ocean about
400 km East of New Zealand. They jumped to the conclusion that the Moriori
were the descendants of (supposedly pre-Maori) Maruiwi survivors who had
fled to the Chathams to New Zealand when Polynesians (Maori) first settled
New Zealand. Until recently, New Zealand school children were taught this
story as historical fact.

Davidson has this to say about the Moriori:
"Despite widespread popular belief that the Moriori were a vanquished group
who fled to the Chathams from New Zealand, Moriori and Maori were unaware
of each others' existence before the rediscovery of the Chathams by
Europeans in the late 18th century. Sutton has recently strongly argued
that the Chathams were settled from New Zealand between A.D. 1000 and 1200
and became completely isolated after about A.D. 1400. No archeological
sites of this early period have yet been excavated in the Chathams,
however, and the possibility of settlement from elsewhere in East Polynesia
cannot be entirely excluded."

Why did the European myth of a people in New Zealand before the Maori
arise? And why has it persisted despite clear contrary evidence? In his
book on the struggles of the Maori since the European settlement of New
Zealand, "Ka Whatwhai Tonu Matou: Struggle Without End", (Penguin,
Auckland, 1990) Ranginui Walker put it very well:

"The myth of the Moriori is essentially ideological in the sense of being a
false consciousness as a solution in the mind to conflict generated by the
colonisers' expropriation of Maori land. According to the myth, the Maori,
as a superior and more warlike people, expropriated the land from the
Moriori. Therefore Pakeha [Maori term for European settlers and their
descendants] expropriation of the same land on the basis of their superior
civilisation was in accordance with the principle of the survival of the
fittest. For this reason the false myth of the Moriori has been one of New
Zealand's most enduring myths. Pakeha need the myth for the endorsement of
colonisation and Pakeha dominance."

I can back up Walker's argument from personal experience. I have
frequently heard (usually right-wing) European New Zealanders using the
Maoris' alleged extermination of the Moriori in New Zealand as
justification of European mistreatment of Maori. I would note however,
that these days the justification tends to be in terms of a rather guilty
"The Maori were just as bad as the Europeans" rather than the more
self-confident social-Darwinist survival-of-the-fittest justification that
was prevalent at the beginning of this century.

[Lias]

It was once believed that the ancestors of the Māori people came to New Zealand in a single ‘great fleet’ of seven canoes. We now know that many canoes made the perilous voyage from Polynesia. Through stories passed down the generations, the numerous tribal groups trace their origins to the captains and crew of over 40 legendary vessels, from the Kurahaupō at North Cape to the Uruao in the South Island. Rich in conflict and drama, and blending history and symbolism, these canoe traditions form a founding narrative for Māori New Zealanders.


The Kurahaupō canoe

On arrival from Hawaiki the Kurahaupō, a later canoe, visited Nelson–Marlborough in the course of its circumnavigation of the South Island. The captain, Ruatea, was the son-in-law of Te Oro, a chief of Arapāoa Island, who had been captured by Kupe and taken to Hawaiki on the Matahourua.

The crew of the Kurahaupō included others with important connections. Whātonga, the grandson of Toi, was in charge of the canoe’s forward section. He was searching for his grandfather, who had gone missing from Hawaiki. Popoto, who supervised the middle and rear sections, was the grandson of Kupe. Three crew members who disembarked from the Kurahaupō at Te Taitapu (on the west coast of Nelson) were ancestors of Ngāti Kuia, who have the longest continuous residence in the region.

Taken from various parts of the www.TeAra.govt.nz.

If there's anything you really need answered about waka I can ask at work. I'm pretty sure that between our waka staff and the lore in the heads of our kaumatua I should be able to get anything you need. PM me.

[Colapop]

We were here first. We only needed one long boat.

[Conquiztador]

Taken from various parts of the www.TeAra.govt.nz.

If there's anything you really need answered about waka I can ask at work. I'm pretty sure that between our waka staff and the lore in the heads of our kaumatua I should be able to get anything you need. PM me.

"Originally Posted by TeAra
It was once believed that the ancestors of the Māori people came to New Zealand in a single ‘great fleet’ of seven canoes. We now know that many canoes made the perilous voyage from Polynesia. Through stories passed down the generations, the numerous tribal groups trace their origins to the captains and crew of over 40 legendary vessels, from the Kurahaupō at North Cape to the Uruao in the South Island. Rich in conflict and drama, and blending history and symbolism, these canoe traditions form a founding narrative for Māori New Zealanders."

Bling to you! The first one that tells me something that makes clear sense. And seven it was. Funny how my 10yo is now told at school that there was eight canoes.

[dnos]

How did Maui paddle more than one canoe/waka when fishing?
Or did he have a support party that he left on the island while he went home to get a bigger filleting knife?

[sAsLEX]

We were here first. We only needed one long boat.

Shhh thats not the recognised approved history!

[avgas]

We were here first. We only needed one long boat.
Sad but semi true - i heard there was 3 in total. Mainly all south. Then there were the 2 Chinese Junks up north.

[sAsLEX]

Sad but semi true - i heard there was 3 in total. Mainly all south. Then there were the 2 Chinese Junks up north.

Main fact is of two. ONe west coast of south island, the second carried on past the erupting Mount Egmount and settled west coast north island.

[peasea]

It's all bollocks.:whocares::whocares::whocares:

[What?]

The eighth canoe got lost, and ended up somewhere in Africa.
It was the Wetawhakaaui tribe.