The time has come!!!

[Sensei]

Well we have all heard about the Mufller & sound level etc for motorbikes but it is now become a reality !! . Mate went to take has Aprilia which is fitted with a compelte Twin muffler TigCraft system on it to the local shop for a WOF so thought he'd just book it in & while doing so was told that they wouldn't give the bike a WOF or any other bike that has an after market muffler on it ?? . If it isn't standard factory fit then no WOF . They had given him a Wof 6 months ago with the same system on but no go now . He hasn't got a standard system for the bike as it had the Tigcraft on when he brought the bike . This is going to open up a massive can of Whip Arse I can see . Not to mention the fact that I have a " Not for Highway use " Akrapovic race muffler on my RSVR with no standard can to swap it over for Wof time either . So finding a standard one has now become a reality as well .

[justsomeguy]

Well what the.....?

Wof at mates places from now then? But that's a short term fix...

Can someone here who works in the industry please comment?

Hope such stuff doesn't catch on here. Luckily I have the standard gear, but still what a hassle swapping the yoshi and then....... what a waste of life. Bastiges :angry:

[Holy Roller]

Just got my WoF
States that the sound level can be no louder than standard muffler.
The bike shop has a different form than the garage for the WoF.
Nothing about how loud the stereo can go though:dodge:

[MSTRS]

Surely it is a noise issue? Not a matter of being factory original?


States that the sound level can be no louder than standard muffler.

And a WOF issuer would know the sound level for every make/model out there, how?

[Usarka]

they probably dont have the measuring equipment and dont want to be responsible for giving a warrant to a bike thats too noisey, or dont want the agro of telling the customer they need to book an expensive noise test.

who is the shop? lets kick them in the balls.

[Sensei]

Just got my WoF
States that the sound level can be no louder than standard muffler.

Sadly they say that wont cut it . There are mufflers that are quiter than standard but clearly put Factory or no WOF they don't want the hassle any more obviously .

[imdying]

Vehicle Inspection Requirement Manual

Motorcycles

11-1

Resons for rejection:

6. The noise output is noticeably and significantly louder than it would have been when the vehicle was manufactured with the original exhaust system.





This is nothing new. Aftermarket pipes are not banned. At a guess, your mates bike is loud? There's a better than even chance that the same man who said he doesn't give bikes with aftermarket pipes warrants, would have done so if it wasn't outside of the regulations outlined above, as he probably wouldn't have given it a second thought. In other words, stuff the muffler full of chickenwire mesh before you go for a warrant :Punk:

[tri boy]

Just got my WoF
States that the sound level can be no louder than standard muffler.


Sadly they say that wont cut it . There are mufflers that are quiter than standard but clearly put Factory or no WOF they don't want the hassle any more obviously .

So, what theyre saying is you have to source a genuine exhaust for say, a 1940s Vellocette to get a WOF for said bike?

Huge Tui momment.
Tell them to grow a brain cell, and stop being wankers.:angry:

[McJim]

So how is that gonna work with original parts that have been er....debaffled?

[idb]

As far as any of the garages around here know, Contis were standard fitment on all bevel-drive Ducatis......what's a bevel-drive?

A couple of months ago I had the Darmah at the Nurburgring.
You can have a couple of laps for 10 Euro (from memory, not that reliable).
The guy came out while I was lined up for my lap and wasn't going to let me go as they have a 95dB limit and they had measured mine at over 100...and I knew I might be on the limit so I had been trying really hard not to rev it too much!

After a big sob story about having brought it all the way from NZ he relented and let me have one lap only, and only if I promised not to go too hard!!!

Hehe.....100dB....I call them my "Hey, look at me everybody!" pipes.

[crshbndct]

just get a muffler quitener thiingy like what the boyracers use

theyre legal and if installed and make it quiet its ok.

[shyboy]

u really need to go to another wof place. only bikes we turn away are bike with straight pipes and no attempt the baffle the sound. anyway a wof is only good for the time of issue. boy racers swap tyres with there mates to get warrants.

[Conquiztador]

Will report back on Monday what I have found out.

[Grahameeboy]

I have Arrows on mine. Coleman's passed mine as they fitted the exhaust and I have a Certificate saying they comply with EU regs with the baffle in but it is held in by a circlip anyway so easy to put back in and you would not notice any difference in noise level, just the tone.

I think if you buy an exhaust that does not have EU compliance or a removal baffle (not one that is DIY removed) you are safer...I know EU does not have any jurisdiction in NZ but it has got to be a better defence.

[imdying]

Will report back on Monday what I have found out.

It's all online... you can find the manual for WOF rejections on the ltsa website.

[davereid]

Lots of bikes are sold new with aftermarket mufflers. All the lots of TL's and SV's came out with 2 bros pipes as an option from the NZ importer, my bike had a LV pipe as a NZ "factory" option from day 1 and got its first WOF with one. So who's to say whats the "original" ? I'd argue my pipe was !

[Grahameeboy]

http://http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/certifiers/virm-in-service/motorcycles-11-v3.pdf

[Grahameeboy]

Lots of bikes are sold new with aftermarket mufflers. All the lots of TL's and SV's came out with 2 bros pipes as an option from the NZ importer, my bike had a LV pipe as a NZ "factory" option from day 1 and got its first WOF with one. So who's to say whats the "original" ? I'd argue my pipe was !

Well you just said "After Market" so that kills that argument...sorry.

NZ Factory fitted is a bit iffy cause all NZ do is put the bikes together once received from the Manufacturer so an aftermarket muffler would be a modification to manufactures specification.

[Bullitt]

just get a muffler quitener thiingy like what the boyracers use

theyre legal and if installed and make it quiet its ok.

Theyre only legal if theyre permanently welded in though. A bolted in silencer would be a fail as testers are well aware itd come out as soon as you got home.

[Grahameeboy]

Theyre only legal if theyre permanently welded in though. A bolted in silencer would be a fail as testers are well aware itd come out as soon as you got home.

Are you sure.....I mean what about tyres as same could happen.....WOF is only a test on the day.

I mean it's like say a tyre with 2mm of tread, ie the legal limit but the guy decides to fail the WOF because by the time you get home the tyre tread depth is 1.99mm so below the legal limit

[davereid]

Well you just said "After Market" so that kills that argument...sorry.

NZ Factory fitted is a bit iffy cause all NZ do is put the bikes together once received from the Manufacturer so an aftermarket muffler would be a modification to manufactures specification.

Hmm maybe true, except my bike never knew another pipe.. it was born with a LV pipe. Bikes and cars have different specs in different countries, and a lot of those decisions are delegated to the local assembler.

Lots of manufacturers use "aftermarket" parts too. Look for "Brembo" components on a Suzuki near you ! (At least for some markets..!)

Thanks, the link you provided was useful... the rating is very subjective, so if you fail your WOF, take your business elsewhere.

[Chrislost]

Well we have all heard about the Mufller & sound level etc for motorbikes but it is now become a reality !! . Mate went to take has Aprilia which is fitted with a compelte Twin muffler TigCraft system on it to the local shop for a WOF so thought he'd just book it in & while doing so was told that they wouldn't give the bike a WOF or any other bike that has an after market muffler on it ?? . If it isn't standard factory fit then no WOF . They had given him a Wof 6 months ago with the same system on but no go now . He hasn't got a standard system for the bike as it had the Tigcraft on when he brought the bike . This is going to open up a massive can of Whip Arse I can see . Not to mention the fact that I have a " Not for Highway use " Akrapovic race muffler on my RSVR with no standard can to swap it over for Wof time either . So finding a standard one has now become a reality as well .

name and shame. [edit] the shop
i dont want my yoshi failing because it sounds better then standard

[imdying]

Lots of manufacturers use "aftermarket" parts too. Look for "Brembo" components on a Suzuki near you ! (At least for some markets..!)No, by that logic Tokico calipers would be in the same basket, the Brembos fitted by the factory are OEM parts.

[MSTRS]

Thanks, the link you provided was useful... the rating is very subjective, so if you fail your WOF, take your business elsewhere.

I found the relevant page after a bit of searching LTSAs site. It describes the requirements as they stand at the moment. The BUT is that sometime in the next few weeks, that rule will be replaced, meaning all who have aftermarket pipes will have to get a LVV cert. :bye:$$

[Conquiztador]

I found the relevant page after a bit of searching LTSAs site. It describes the requirements as they stand at the moment. The BUT is that sometime in the next few weeks, that rule will be replaced, meaning all who have aftermarket pipes will have to get a LVV cert. :bye:$$

Are U saying that all the guys who do WOF will know what is an original muffler and what is an after market one? Somehow I do not think so... So it will be down to interpretations.

[Grahameeboy]

Hmm maybe true, except my bike never knew another pipe.. it was born with a LV pipe. Bikes and cars have different specs in different countries, and a lot of those decisions are delegated to the local assembler.

Lots of manufacturers use "aftermarket" parts too. Look for "Brembo" components on a Suzuki near you ! (At least for some markets..!)

Thanks, the link you provided was useful... the rating is very subjective, so if you fail your WOF, take your business elsewhere.

Your bike would have started with standard pipes when it was rolled out if the Factory.

Bikes with Brembo's, Ohlins etc....well they were fitted by the Manufacturer so is standard specification for the intended market

[Chrislost]

if its anythign like what they did to cars when boyracing became mainstream(wtf) then itl be a big mess for the next 5 years!
hell its still fucked!

[boomer]

plonk the standard on when WOF time comes or take it to a bike shop;

get stopped.. take the after market of and get a copy wof and voila.. job done.

unless of course you dont have a standard pipe ;)

hey.. that reminds me; i have an '05 cbr6oo rr stock pipe for sale :D and a brand new swing arm... anyone?

[Sensei]

New Plymouth Motorcycles is the shop which declined the WOF . They just want Factory systems ! That way they don't get into a argument over what is & what isn't acceptable plain & simple . Have Standard pipe jacked up now so will take bike into LTS Wof station next week & see what happens with the Very loud Akrapovic pipe on .

[Usarka]

One would imagine that this New Plymouth Motorcycles has also stopped selling said aftermarket pipes then?

[Madness]

One would imagine that this New Plymouth Motorcycles has also stopped selling said aftermarket pipes then?

And presumably Bikes fitted with aftermarket pipes also. Sucks to be them.

[Storm]

I have two questions:
1) So what all the above means for someone like me who has a bike exhaust that isnt made anymore in Japan, and as part of an insurance claim was replaced with a Titanium muffler, I will be having to pay $300(or however much it is for a Low Volume Cert) through circumstances outside my control?

2) If the answer to 1) is Yes you do, which govt twat/LTSA fucktard is responisble for this legislation and where do I (and every other unfairly shafted for revenue biker) write/phone him/her to personally take up my concerns(at length and in great detail) ?

[sAsLEX]

I have two questions:
1) So what all the above means for someone like me who has a bike exhaust that isnt made anymore in Japan, and as part of an insurance claim was replaced with a Titanium muffler, I will be having to pay $300(or however much it is for a Low Volume Cert) through circumstances outside my control?

2) If the answer to 1) is Yes you do, which govt twat/LTSA fucktard is responisble for this legislation and where do I (and every other unfairly shafted for revenue biker) write/phone him/her to personally take up my concerns(at length and in great detail) ?

No the insurance company has to fit something fit for purpose I guess, which would probably make it uneconomically viable to repair most bikes.

[Bullitt]

where do I (and every other unfairly shafted for revenue biker) write/phone him/her to personally take up my concerns(at length and in great detail) ?
adminlvvta@xtra.co.nz

I suspect the issue is over louder than stock though rather than not stock. The fact one shop has chosen to interpret the law that way will just cost them WOF business untill they start interpreting it correctly.

Dont expect a single email to lvvta to change the law, the issue is alot bigger than that.

[Storm]

Thats my thoughts at the moment too- will come down to a shop by shop basis. Also I doubt the shop that fitted it will fail thier own handiwork!

[Deano]

Well we have all heard about the Mufller & sound level etc for motorbikes but it is now become a reality !! . Mate went to take has Aprilia which is fitted with a compelte Twin muffler TigCraft system on it to the local shop for a WOF so thought he'd just book it in & while doing so was told that they wouldn't give the bike a WOF or any other bike that has an after market muffler on it ?? . If it isn't standard factory fit then no WOF . They had given him a Wof 6 months ago with the same system on but no go now . He hasn't got a standard system for the bike as it had the Tigcraft on when he brought the bike . This is going to open up a massive can of Whip Arse I can see . Not to mention the fact that I have a " Not for Highway use " Akrapovic race muffler on my RSVR with no standard can to swap it over for Wof time either . So finding a standard one has now become a reality as well .

'Not for highway use', or 'race only' seems pretty self explanatory, but at the end of the day, what criteria are they using to determine it isn't up to standard.........their ears ?

Ask for a certified test showing objective eveidence that the muffler/exhaust doesn't comply.

Pick your tester as well.

A bike mechanic at a local shop that issues warrants was heard to say that they would warrant a CBR1000RR that was VERY loud.

Some bikes have dBA levels stamped on the standard zorst that don't comply with the Traffic Regs, so is it an issue of;
who checks it out,
the testing criteria, (I bet WOF checks don't meet the Bristish Standard specified in the Traffic Regs for objective testing - it's too hard), or,

LTNZ are not going to refuse new imported bikes that don't comply, simply because of political/economic reasons.

End of the day, chuck the std shit back on for your WOF, just like Joe Boy Racer does. Boy Racers have a lot to answer for - admittedly, because of the number of them attracting attention to themselves.

We almost got away with it in my day.

[Gremlin]

End of the day, chuck the std shit back on for your WOF, just like Joe Boy Racer does.
yeup, no selling of the stock shit.

The laws are fucked. Seriously. Found out today what was going on with braided lines laws, and they are changing each 1-2 months, with LTNZ flip flopping on numbers, crimping, non-adjustable bolts etc. Its absolute hell, and no-one really knows what the fuck is going on.

How the hell can you comply when there is no consensus from the law makers themselves??

[Zapf]

oh dear... what happens when you buy a 2nd hand bike and it doesn't come with a std muffler... ! Perhaps we can all rally to the local MP

[Lias]

Could be interesting for me too.. My bike got an aftermarket pipe put on it by the insurers and its louder than stock (V&H)

[Sensei]

Mate here had his old standard can of his RSVR so have done the $$ deal & brought it off him . Will try with the Race pipe first to see how things go at Testing Station if they start to play funny buggers then I'll put to Barzoker can on .

[slowpoke]

One would imagine that this New Plymouth Motorcycles has also stopped selling said aftermarket pipes then?

They'd wouldn't be able to sell bikes or exhausts would they? I mean, they sell you a bike complete with aftermarket can, with a warrant they have given it. You rock up for the next warrant and they fail the product they have sold you. Surely they have failed in their obligations as a retailer by selling a product that is not fit for purpose.
What a bunch of nutless wonders....

[scumdog]

'Not for highway use', or 'race only' seems pretty self explanatory, but at the end of the day, what criteria are they using to determine it isn't up to standard.........their ears ?

Ask for a certified test showing objective eveidence that the muffler/exhaust doesn't comply.

Pick your tester as well.

Not for Highway Use is all very well - but in what country I would ask???

And pick your tester.

BTW I believe once your bike has failed a wof the reason it failed is logged into the inter-garage 'puter info - so that if you shoot across town and try elsewhere for a wof the info about your failed wof will pop up there.


BTW2: I have a Harley and everybody knows they don't need mufflers!!:nya::dodge:

[avgas]

Fuck so i have to go shove some goldilocks in my pipe then.
Its looks like a standard pipe - but is fractionally louder, and rediculous when the exup opens.

[imdying]

The laws are fucked. Seriously. Found out today what was going on with braided lines laws, and they are changing each 1-2 months, with LTNZ flip flopping on numbers, crimping, non-adjustable bolts etc. Its absolute hell, and no-one really knows what the fuck is going on.

How the hell can you comply when there is no consensus from the law makers themselves??There has been two changes for braided lines regarding WOFs in the last year, and that's the only changes of note in recent history. It isn't absolute hell, the WOF manual is kept up to date as required. In fact, the last change actually relaxed the rules slightly.

All lines of any repute have DOT or ADR approvals on them in any case. Regardless, non reusable screw together fittings have never been accepted by sane people for use in brake components. The numbers have never changed, they've been ADR7 and SAE J1403(2? I can't remember off the top of my head) since Adam was a cowboy.

[Hitcher]

One smells bullshit.

[MSTRS]

Mmmmm...OnRoad Napier know nothing about this imminent change. They apply the subjective ear test - "I passed that last time? Oh well, I had an argument with my wife this morning and I'm in a bad mood. I'm failing that for being too loud" Or whatever.
So I went to see the only LVV compliancer in Napier, who told me...
"They tried that a while back for the boi-racer zorsts. Too confusing, loaded with anomolies, dropped the whole thing after a month or so. Sheesh, I have used my decibel meter once and that was to check my standard ex-factory Commodore V8 and it failed. It's a fucking joke. My advice is don't worry about it. If it's brought in, it will be rescinded very quickly."

[Clivoris]

Mate here had his old standard can of his RSVR so have done the $$ deal & brought it off him . Will try with the Race pipe first to see how things go at Testing Station if they start to play funny buggers then I'll put to Barzoker can on .

I still have my standard exhaust in storage but I have a full system. Getting that on and off generally involves several beers, at least two skinned knuckles and a four year old asking me why I've thrown my ratchet through the interior lining of the garage...again.
How can anyone find my Renegades offensive? I find the gentle massage of my kidneys rather relaxing. Surely I can bribe someone for a WOF?

[Conquiztador]

Mmmmm...OnRoad Napier know nothing about this imminent change. They apply the subjective ear test - "I passed that last time? Oh well, I had an argument with my wife this morning and I'm in a bad mood. I'm failing that for being too loud" Or whatever.
So I went to see the only LVV compliancer in Napier, who told me...
"They tried that a while back for the boi-racer zorsts. Too confusing, loaded with anomolies, dropped the whole thing after a month or so. Sheesh, I have used my decibel meter once and that was to check my standard ex-factory Commodore V8 and it failed. It's a fucking joke. My advice is don't worry about it. If it's brought in, it will be rescinded very quickly."

Got same messages. Sounds like it is all bull. (Hey, did someone already smell this??)

[pritch]

New Plymouth Motorcycles is the shop which declined the WOF .

Scott

WTF was your mate doing at New Plymouth Motorcycles anyway? Some of the staff don't seem too bright. One was quoted as telling other motor trade people that the Suzuki agency was a great one to have because Suzukis kept breaking down, the workshop had never been so busy.

The sales staff would love that.

I was recommended to use Pauls Motorsave Services, 16 Constance Street, for warrants. He is good to deal with but last time I saw him I didn't have a set of Arrow cans. I hope he's good next time too...

[Sensei]

Yea I know of Paul & he may well be getting alot more bike warrant work I can see .

[rwh]

I found the relevant page after a bit of searching LTSAs site. It describes the requirements as they stand at the moment. The BUT is that sometime in the next few weeks, that rule will be replaced, meaning all who have aftermarket pipes will have to get a LVV cert. :bye:$$

Got a reference for that?

Richard

[rwh]

New Plymouth Motorcycles is the shop which declined the WOF . They just want Factory systems ! That way they don't get into a argument over what is & what isn't acceptable plain & simple . Have Standard pipe jacked up now so will take bike into LTS Wof station next week & see what happens with the Very loud Akrapovic pipe on .

No argument? They're not allowed to make up rules to suit themselves. If they're enforcing rules that don't exist, dob them in to the appropriate authorities.

Richard

[MSTRS]

Got a reference for that?

Richard

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/certifiers/virm-in-service/general-11-v3.pdf

[rwh]

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/certifiers/virm-in-service/general-11-v3.pdf

I think that's a) the old rules and b) for other than motorcycles?

Certainly there's nothing in there requiring OEM exhausts.

I was a bit worried when I saw the stuff about exhausts on the left hand side of the vehicle, but that seems to be just for heavy/light passenger service vehicles.

What I want to see is something concrete relating to these supposed new rules requiring OEM exhausts only.

Richard

[MSTRS]

Of course it's the old rule....the 'new' is not in place yet. This is what I have been sent that covers this so-called new rule...
The rules are about to change. The shop is just getting in a bit early.

The Vehicle Equipment Amendment Rule (2007) to be released very shortly (like maybe a couple of weeks) changes the law.

In effect, if you have a non-standard exhaust you will have to get a Low Volume Certificate


---Quote (Originally by TheRule)---
Section 3 Modification and repair
3.1 Modification

Clause 3.1 is amended by inserting the following subclauses after 3.1(1):

* "3.1(1A) Subject to 3.1(1B), if a light motor vehicle in Schedule 3 is modified so as to increase the vehicle's exhaust noise output, *the exhaust system must be certified* under the Low Volume Vehicle Code in accordance with Land Transport Rule: Vehicle Standards Compliance 2002.
* "3.1(1B) Subclause 3.1(1A) does not apply if the vehicle's increased exhaust noise output is clearly below the maximum decibel level specified in Schedule 3."
---End Quote---

[rwh]

Of course it's the old rule....the 'new' is not in place yet. This is what I have been sent that covers this so-called new rule...
The rules are about to change. The shop is just getting in a bit early.

The Vehicle Equipment Amendment Rule (2007) to be released very shortly (like maybe a couple of weeks) changes the law.

In effect, if you have a non-standard exhaust you will have to get a Low Volume Certificate


---Quote (Originally by TheRule)---
Section 3 Modification and repair
3.1 Modification

Clause 3.1 is amended by inserting the following subclauses after 3.1(1):

* "3.1(1A) Subject to 3.1(1B), if a light motor vehicle in Schedule 3 is modified so as to increase the vehicle's exhaust noise output, *the exhaust system must be certified* under the Low Volume Vehicle Code in accordance with Land Transport Rule: Vehicle Standards Compliance 2002.
* "3.1(1B) Subclause 3.1(1A) does not apply if the vehicle's increased exhaust noise output is clearly below the maximum decibel level specified in Schedule 3."
---End Quote---

Only a problem if it "is modified so as to increase the vehicle's exhaust noise output".

ie more or less what we have already - except the bit allowing for a maximum decibel level, so you're allowed to make a very quiet bike a bit noisier.

Richard

[MSTRS]

Only a problem if it "is modified so as to increase the vehicle's exhaust noise output".

ie more or less what we have already - except the bit allowing for a maximum decibel level, so you're allowed to make a very quiet bike a bit noisier.

Richard

If brought in, it will still be a can of worms as I said earlier, as what constitutes 'too loud' will still be subjective according to the LVV guy I spoke to.
Clause 3.1 is amended by inserting the following subclauses after 3.1(1):

* "3.1(1A) Subject to 3.1(1B), if a light motor vehicle in Schedule 3 is modified so as to increase the vehicle's exhaust noise output, *the exhaust system must be certified* under the Low Volume Vehicle Code in accordance with Land Transport Rule: Vehicle Standards Compliance 2002.
* "3.1(1B) Subclause 3.1(1A) does not apply if the vehicle's increased exhaust noise output is clearly below the maximum decibel level specified in Schedule 3."
If a standard V8 Commodore fails the decibel reading there is no hope of any bike passing.

[Grahameeboy]

If brought in, it will still be a can of worms as I said earlier, as what constitutes 'too loud' will still be subjective according to the LVV guy I spoke to.
Clause 3.1 is amended by inserting the following subclauses after 3.1(1):

* "3.1(1A) Subject to 3.1(1B), if a light motor vehicle in Schedule 3 is modified so as to increase the vehicle's exhaust noise output, *the exhaust system must be certified* under the Low Volume Vehicle Code in accordance with Land Transport Rule: Vehicle Standards Compliance 2002.
* "3.1(1B) Subclause 3.1(1A) does not apply if the vehicle's increased exhaust noise output is clearly below the maximum decibel level specified in Schedule 3."
If a standard V8 Commodore fails the decibel reading there is no hope of any bike passing.

In Engleesh pleesey

[MSTRS]

In Engleesh pleesey

You Poms - can't understand your own langwidge.

*Sigh*...

If you change your exhaust to make it louder, you must get a Low Volume Vehicle Tester to certify that the result is with acceptable limits. Unless the loudness is insignificantly more than the factory original.

At this point, sanity takes a look at the official expectations and says, fuck off, that's not realistic.

Clear enough?

[Grahameeboy]

You Poms - can't understand your own langwidge.

*Sigh*...

If you change your exhaust to make it louder, you must get a Low Volume Vehicle Tester to certify that the result is with acceptable limits. Unless the loudness is insignificantly more than the factory original.

At this point, sanity takes a look at the official expectations and says, fuck off, that's not realistic.

Clear enough?

I understand 40 dialects, speak 2 of them.......and I can understand Asians....called "Patience".

I have an EU certificate with my Exhaust but with said baffles inserted it is only 2 db higher...........I know that is higher than it sounds but it is about same as the standard...............

[MSTRS]

And your point is/was ???
That Officialese is not a language that you are familiar with?

[imdying]

If a standard V8 Commodore fails the decibel reading there is no hope of any bike passing.Bikes have a higher limit than bikes, about 5 (or 6?) dB more.

These changes were made to mess with the boy racers... generally, if you're not being a prick, you'll be fine. As Sensei has shown us though, there are always exceptions.

As an aside, my SV isn't the quietest bike in the world... I have however sat at the front of traffic, and chatted to a policeman who had stopped the traffic to let a graduation parade pass over the road. I sat there with it idling angrily away for about 5 minutes, and he didn't even mention that is was quite loud, and neither did his two other colleagues who were with the parade.

In contrast, Sportzone Suzuki here in Chch who fitted the Micron cans that I had on my bike originally (maybe slightly quieter than my current exhaust if anything), said they wouldn't give me a warrant with the dB killers removed, but to be honest, I suspect they wouldn't have given me a warrant with them in either. There are of course hundreds of places you can go that are quite reasonable and realistic about such things, all you need to do when you've a non standard exhaust is ask them before you get them to do a warrant check.

I accept that people get a bit wound up about the 'test' being purely subjective... but consider the price of a certified dB meter, and keeping if certified and accurate, and how difficult it would be to setup each WOF station with a consistent test area (walls and the like make sound reverberate, increasing your 'score').

[imdying]

If you change your exhaust to make it louder, you must get a Low Volume Vehicle Tester to certify that the result is with acceptable limits. Unless the loudness is insignificantly more than the factory original.Yep, if you're declined for a warrant, or are ordered (defected?) by the police, then you must get a LVVT to certify your exhaust dB output. IIRC there are 14 certified testing devices in NZ, 1 fixed in Chch, and 1 travelling the SI. I think Donn Hoff is the man here in Chch who has the fixed one. The 12 others are in the NI. The cost iirc is $380, and the plate must be riveted to the tailpipe.

[Grahameeboy]

And your point is/was ???
That Officialese is not a language that you are familiar with?

:innocent:............................

[MSTRS]

.... all you need to do when you've a non standard exhaust is ask them before you get them to do a warrant check.


How, before they are fitted, after which they are a used item?
I agree the logistics of having sound gear in every WOF place is a biggie, but if LTSA are focussed on sound levels then they should remove the subjective component altogether or stop fucking with the 'rules'

[imdying]

How, before they are fitted, after which they are a used item?
I agree the logistics of having sound gear in every WOF place is a biggie, but if LTSA are focussed on sound levels then they should remove the subjective component altogether or stop fucking with the 'rules'If you've got them, you just need to be more selective about where you go for a warrant. Yeah that's a pain, but the option of course is to keep a standard pipe.

I can just accept that as being part of living in a country with finite resources, I can however accept why others can't... the finer the margin you run, the more you want (need) to know how closer you're running to it.

[MSTRS]

If you've got them, you just need to be more selective about where you go for a warrant. Yeah that's a pain, but the option of course is to keep a standard pipe.

I can just accept that as being part of living in a country with finite resources, I can however accept why others can't... the finer the margin you run, the more you want (need) to know how closer you're running to it.

Barring OnRoad & VTNZ, I think there is one place that does bikes in the Napier area, so not a great choice. Having never had a standard pipe on the 750, if it's been good enough in the past, why not now? What I object to is the fact that there is no consistency, unlike tread depth or disc thickness or whatever. If LTSA want under a certain dB level then they need to ensure the WOF issuers have and use a meter, not their ears

[imdying]

1 place, wow, that's a bugger.

You are quite correct, there should be consistent rule. Keep wishing for that loud enough, and you'll get it soon enough... it's called 'Only standard pipes on bikes, unless you get a LV cert, period'.

As far as 'why now', you can answer that for yourself.

[MSTRS]

1 place, wow, that's a bugger.

You are quite correct, there should be consistent rule. Keep wishing for that loud enough, and you'll get it soon enough... it's called 'Only standard pipes on bikes, unless you get a LV cert, period'.

As far as 'why now', you can answer that for yourself.

Which is where this thread came in. And the only LVVT here says it's a crock so I guess that I'll just grab a stack of compliance certificates from him....wanna buy one?

[imdying]

Yep, how much?

[MSTRS]

Yep, how much?

Let me just secure the supply and we'll talk....

[Conquiztador]

The changes you guys are talking about are in place in many countries already. Germany is one of the worst. ANY change to a bike compared to original needs a certificate. ( Not allowed to change handle bars, foot pegs, wheel, U name it. No go.) If there is no paperwork, then you are out of luck. That is the reason that Germans engrave and paint their bikes and nothing else.

Sweden was going down this track over 20 years ago. But the motor cycle community got together and lobbied the rulers with some sensible alterantives. After meetings and discussion (the Sewdish way...) there was a compromise put in place. So today Sweden is still the country where customizing is king.

Maybe time to get something similar going here in NZ before it is too late??

[imdying]

Gotta be the tag that is riveted onto the tailpipe, that's the one we want (need) :yes:

[imdying]

The changes you guys are talking about are in place in many countries already. Germany is one of the worst. ANY change to a bike compared to original needs a certificate. ( Not allowed to change handle bars, foot pegs, wheel, U name it. No go.) If there is no parework, then you are out of luck. That is the reason that Germans engrave and paint their bikes and nothing else.This is actually the case here... those are all what they consider structural changes (except the wheels, although...), and all of those require at a LV cert. Of course, the law is enforced to the letter here at the moment. If we don't take to much in the give n take, we'll be fine for a good while yet. :scooter:

[Conquiztador]

This is actually the case here... those are all what they consider structural changes (except the wheels, although...), and all of those require at a LV cert. Of course, the law is enforced to the letter here at the moment. If we don't take to much in the give n take, we'll be fine for a good while yet. :scooter:

Goood. Lets take the "head in the sand" approach.

Is there any group/organisation that is working on this for bikes so that it does not turn in to a draconian nightmare like in Germany?

[imdying]

Hahahahaha, yeah right... and even if there was, we have a Labour government, so they'd simply be ignored in any case. You would be best to enjoy your freedoms before they're inevitably stripped away. You can bitch and moan all you like, but the reality is that these laws are going to become more and more rigidly enforced. And that isn't entirely unreasonable, there's no good reason why OEM exhausts aren't perfectly sufficient, and if you wish to construct your own, then a LV certification required. I can see no good reason why everybody in NZ should have to pay to have every WOF station equiped with a certified and calibrated dB meter.

[Conquiztador]

Hahahahaha, yeah right... and even if there was, we have a Labour government, so they'd simply be ignored in any case. You would be best to enjoy your freedoms before they're inevitably stripped away. You can bitch and moan all you like, but the reality is that these laws are going to become more and more rigidly enforced. And that isn't entirely unreasonable, there's no good reason why OEM exhausts aren't perfectly sufficient, and if you wish to construct your own, then a LV certification required. I can see no good reason why everybody in NZ should have to pay to have every WOF station equiped with a certified and calibrated dB meter.

There is things that can be done. By providing proper information and alternatives to strict regulations much can be achieved. But it all comes down to having someone/a group that is prepared to do it. If nobody does anything then we get what we deserve...

So again: Is there a group/organisation here in NZ that is working on this???

[imdying]

If anyone, it would be BRONZ I guess. I do think we've been given pretty good rules to work with, as the powers that be have given a reasonable nod towards bikes by giving us the extra 5dB (it's a log scale, so that's a reasonable increase).

Having said that though, it's a little off that in your area the WOF testers have taken a rather firm stance, perhaps they would be the best place to start with. I can see their point though, they pass one reasonably fruity sounding bike, someone with one not much more wants there one done too, and so on. I cannot say I envy the job of a WOF tester.

[vifferman]

Are U saying that all the guys who do WOF will know what is an original muffler and what is an after market one? Somehow I do not think so... So it will be down to interpretations.
Many of the OEM mufflers (especially Japanese ones) are stamped with summat like, "This muffler complies with blah blah regulation xxx dB..blah blah etc." to make it easy for inspection in Urp, Mrka or wherever.
When I first bought the FahrtSturm, I took it to a VTNZ place and asked them if it was OK. The FailedMechanicDude/OldPhart/Bureaucrat there stood looking at the stamp on the zorst, looked at the end of the zorst (with missing endcap), blipped the throttle, and said, "This zorst has been tampered with. You're not allowed to do that."

When I bought the VFR, I removed the factory-fitted sticker that said summat about the zorst met requirements BLAH BLAH and was marked XXXYYYZZ whatever", because the Satantune obviously didn't have any such OEM markings on it. A tester / polismun may not recognise that the Satantune wasn't standard, but in the offchance I struck one that could read, I didn't want him to connect the dots.

No the insurance company has to fit something fit for purpose I guess, which would probably make it uneconomically viable to repair most bikes.
True.
One of the reasons my (cosmetically challenged) VFR750 was written off was because the (OEM) muffler had a dent in it, and the list price for said muffler was $1200.


Yep, if you're declined for a warrant, or are ordered (defected?) by the police, then you must get a LVVT to certify your exhaust dB output. IIRC there are 14 certified testing devices in NZ, 1 fixed in Chch, and 1 travelling the SI. I think Donn Hoff is the man here in Chch who has the fixed one. The 12 others are in the NI. The cost iirc is $380, and the plate must be riveted to the tailpipe.
Fuck off!
No way am I riveting an ugly plate thingo to my beautiful polished Satantune!
Must get hold of a sticker from Satantune that says it's compliant (as it would be - if I put the Mk. I restrictor back in (instead of the Mk. 0 invisible one it currently sports, or the Mk.II cutdown version in my backpack pocket...) :whistle:

[imdying]

Fuck off!
No way am I riveting an ugly plate thingo to my beautiful polished Satantune!Yeah, can't say the concept gives me a hard on either :no:

[vifferman]

The powers that be have given a reasonable nod towards bikes by giving us the extra 5dB (it's a log scale, so that's a reasonable increase).
You have to consider that a bike suffers when noise tested in that it doesn't have a great big lump of steel panelling and shit around the engine to shield the mechanical noises, and doesn't have room for a large/long zorst to reduce outlet noise, so some allowance must be made. My bike's kinda fukt for noise testing anyway, as the geardrive to the cams must be about 27 bazillion dB on its own.

The crazy thing is that with trucks they basically gone, "Trucks? Pffft!! They're so pharkin noisy we won't even worry about them - just make the limit summat ridiculous, and don't enforce it anyway. Oh - and do the same with zorst emissions."

[MSTRS]

... in your area the WOF testers have taken a rather firm stance....

Where did that appear? New Plymouth is as far from Hawkes Bay as Orkland is...
I said that the WOF testers I approached would and do use the earometer which is highly subjective and prone to mood on the day.

[imdying]

Where did that appear? New Plymouth is as far from Hawkes Bay as Orkland is...
I said that the WOF testers I approached would and do use the earometer which is highly subjective and prone to mood on the day.

The rider that posted in the post above mine is in 'HB', which I assume is Hawkes Bay, and I'm pretty sure Napier is somewhere in there?

[MSTRS]

Yep. Still don't see where HB testers are hard nuts....

[imdying]

:shrugs: .

[Conquiztador]

The rider that posted in the post above mine is in 'HB', which I assume is Hawkes Bay, and I'm pretty sure Napier is somewhere in there?

I also went to the local places asking the queations. But (as I stated somewhere earlier in this thread) the answers I got was: "That is news to us" and "Can't see us being too worried as long as the bike does not wake up the dead" and: "Boy racers are what it is all about".

So can not see where the HB issue came up. This thread was about an issue in NP that is on the other side of the island. And yes, both places are below the Bombay Hills.. ;-):Punk:

[kro]

Take off the aftermarket exhaust badge, and put a Suzuki/Honda etc badge on it. Lots easier than changing muffs over.

[Clivoris]

The boys in the workshop at TSS love my Renegades. I just hope that translates into a result next warrant time.

[Sensei]

Well took my bike into a LTS Testing station today to see guy that worked at a bike shop here awhile back for a WOF on the Aprilia & left the LOUD Akrapovic muffler on it . Parked bike outside & went in to see if he was still working which he was so asked if he could take the bike through no worrys wheres ya keys . Handed over them to him & he went out & hopped onto the bike & fired it into life Holly shit it was loud ! everyone at the paying counter turned round Bugger I thought thats not a good start . When he got it round to the front he left it idling which got most of the other Testing people over to look at it as it was echoing round the building so I walked over to Nevil to see if I could turn the bike off so as not to attract any more attenion than the 4 guys looking at it , he was holding his clip board over the end of the outlet of the muffler trying to keep it quite but when one of the older testers asked to give it a Rev up to hear it thats when i knew something would be said for sure . Bike was reved everyone turned round again shaking their heads in a yes nood of approval & even the old guy said that sound Incredible but abit loud best ya get the pipe repacked before next time SWEET !!!! Nevil hopped onto my bike & road out through the station leaving me standing there with these old guys say to me thats a Beautiful looking & sounding bike ya have the , Ya thanks guys I said & walked off to get my baby from Nevil & have a chat about the new laws which are now starting to rear their heads . Have a standard can for my bike now so are ready if things get more crazy with noise levels etc . But for now another 1year WOF :Punk:

[Hitcher]

The boys in the workshop at TSS love my Renegades. I just hope that translates into a result next warrant time.

I'm hoping similarly for the TBRs.

[Clivoris]

But for now another 1year WOF :Punk:

Result! What more evidence do we need that God rides a motorcycle?

[marty]

New Plymouth M/cycles have bikes that are not up to their own WOF standard in their showroom! make an offer on the 748 with the arrow cans, the ZX10 with the micron, the bandit with the yoshi tri-oval, gsx1400 with yoshi pipe, sv650 with micron can, fuckin hell even a TL1000 with 2 Bros pipes, and see if any of them come with a fresh wof.

[Sensei]

Not to mention the brand new 07 Speedtriple with a Full Arrow system on it ! Not to worryed want be making much of an effort to head back in there again

[Clivoris]

New Plymouth M/cycles have bikes that are not up to their own WOF standard in their showroom! make an offer on the 748 with the arrow cans, the ZX10 with the micron, the bandit with the yoshi tri-oval, gsx1400 with yoshi pipe, sv650 with micron can, fuckin hell even a TL1000 with 2 Bros pipes, and see if any of them come with a fresh wof.

You have to go in and ask them what the deal is? I would love to be there to hear the response.

[Conquiztador]

Not to mention the brand new 07 Speedtriple with a Full Arrow system on it ! Not to worryed want be making much of an effort to head back in there again

I still recon they ride chinese scooters!!

[MSTRS]

... LOUD ...SWEET... WOF

Stand-out words for me. Great result. And realistically, the only one.

[imdying]

Excellent Sensei! Wonder how much the sex appeal of the Aprilia had to do with that :blip:

[Panther]

Excellent Sensei! Wonder how much the sex appeal of the Aprilia had to do with that :blip:

Aprillias are rather um sexy

[McJim]

. Have a standard can for my bike now so are ready if things get more crazy with noise levels etc . But for now another 1year WOF :Punk:

I took my bike to the garage across the road today - the guy used to ride bikes years ago but since he didn't have a crash helmet he got me to prove the brakes worked by locking up front and rear respectively while moving - good enuff for him.

My bike makes a lot more noise than it should but it still has the original Ducati muffler on it (just has no baffles in it) I thought words would be had but he just gave the throttle a friendly rev or two, smiled and gave it a big pass on the WOF.

[imdying]

Aprillias are rather um sexy

Damn right, I'd have a hard time failing Sensei's bike, too busy drooling over this that and the other thing. Mind you, I'd probably have a hard time failing an early blade too... face it, I'm a bike slut.

[Panther]

Damn right, I'd have a hard time failing Sensei's bike, too busy drooling over this that and the other thing. Mind you, I'd probably have a hard time failing an early blade too... face it, I'm a bike slut.

Yes, there are a lot of gorgeous bikes out there. It's nice to get one of them and then put your mark on it.

[betti]

As far as germany being draconian when it comes to modified bikes, it is true they have T.U.V. which is effectively a tighter form of low volume vehicle certification, but they most certainly don't just engrave and paint their bikes.
Germany has produced some of the most radical streetfighters/customs on the planet, check out

http://www.whaccessories.com/Streetfighters.htm

Just shows you, the more restrictive the legislation, the more ways people will find ways round 'em.
Individuality is a huge part of motorcycling, and modification will never die!.

[kro]

My FZR thou had an Yoshi RS3 on it, and that was pretty rambunctious in the noise dept, but the testing station guys used to rev the ding dong out of it down at the New Lynn testing station, and wait for the office lady to come out and see what the racket was, then laugh when she went back inside, and do it again. I never failed a warrant on it.

[imdying]

Why doesn't TUV do something about those rear subframes?? Oh the humanity...

[Mekk]

but they most certainly don't just engrave and paint their bikes.
Germany has produced some of the most radical streetfighters/customs on the planet, check out

Yeah I was going to point that out myself. In fact German streetfighters are renowned for their scorpion like tails.

Those would be an impressive paint job to say the least.

[Conquiztador]

As far as germany being draconian when it comes to modified bikes, it is true they have T.U.V. which is effectively a tighter form of low volume vehicle certification, but they most certainly don't just engrave and paint their bikes.
Germany has produced some of the most radical streetfighters/customs on the planet, check out

http://www.whaccessories.com/Streetfighters.htm

Just shows you, the more restrictive the legislation, the more ways people will find ways round 'em.
Individuality is a huge part of motorcycling, and modification will never die!.

As anywhere in the world there is ways to do it. My point was that in Germany you need a certification to have any change or modification done to your bike no matter how small. And that is the draconian part here. You are not allowed to do any changes without it been approved by the rulers. As this is a process in it self and also costs Euros many do not even go there.

I just hope that we never end up with same restrictions. That will be the end of us who like to not buy stuff of the shelf.

[Hitcher]

I shall be reporting back on this further later this week. I am conducting an experiment...

[MSTRS]

As a guide for dB level, I checked the 750 with the Yoshi TRS...at 5000rpm it reads 87dB @ 2.5m.
In contrast, YT's 500 with its awful cans reads 93.5dB.
So basically, they would both comply.

[pritch]

This from the LTSA:

"In July 2006, interim measures were implemented to allow the objective noise test to be introduced through the existing legal requirements of the Traffic Regulations, by means of a Gazette notice. The objective noise test is based on the international ISO 5130 Measurement of noise emitted by stationary road vehicles test methodology (the ‘stationary tailpipe’ noise test). The test measures exhaust noise using a microphone placed 0.5 metres away from the tailpipe of the vehicle. Noise levels for the interim objective noise test are required to be consistent with the current levels in the Traffic Regulations. These levels correlate to a maximum of 95dBA for light vehicles and a maximum of 100dBA for motorcycles, when tested using the ‘stationary tailpipe’ noise test."

This from Arrow:

" RPM 5250 rounds/m

Background noise 48 Db

Stock exhaust 86 Db

Arrow silencers kit/b> 91 Db "


I'll go back to sleep now.

[marty]

I shall be reporting back on this further later this week. I am conducting an experiment...



Well it's Friday Hitch.......

How much for the TL? Does it come with a WOF?

[Hitcher]

Well it's Friday Hitch?

Indeed. The TBR-festooned FJR is current at TSS for a WOF and PR2s. Sitrep later.

How's that for Acronymville?

[Hitcher]

Experiment over: The FJR now has a lovely new legal WOF which did not require the swapping of its brass section for a kazoo orchestra.

[MSTRS]

So, in short, a can has to be MIGHTY LOUD to fail

[vifferman]

So, in short, a can has to be MIGHTY LOUD to fail
... unless the person doing the test is some obnoxious, pedantic, failed mechanic cum bureaucrat with toothache and piles, who didn't get a bit last night.

[Hailwood]

I took my bike with the Screamin Eagle pipes to VTNZ for a warrant. The guy there saw the pipes and gave it a handful a few times..I thought he was going to say something he looked at me and said that sounds like it should very nice here is the warrant

[MSTRS]

... unless the person doing the test is some obnoxious, pedantic, failed mechanic cum bureaucrat with toothache and piles, who didn't get a bit last night.

Not legally, he can't. Bastard little Hitlers - should all be shot.
Develop a close friendship with a LVVT and have him rivet a compliance plate on your can. Shouldn't cost more than a doz....

[rwh]

Experiment over: The FJR now has a lovely new legal WOF which did not require the swapping of its brass section for a kazoo orchestra.

Brass, huh? That could look quite impressive :)

Richard

[Clivoris]

Experiment over: The FJR now has a lovely new legal WOF which did not require the swapping of its brass section for a kazoo orchestra.

Result. I must check to see when I'm up for the test.