Recurring acne?

[FlangMasterJ]

A ranty kind of question.

I have just finished my third course of Accutane (Isotane) which is a medication that stops the production of oil which is secreted through the pores which in turn is meant to reduce and stop acne.

The first two courses worked well while I was on it and for the following few months but then came back. This third course reduced the amount of acne but I was still breaking out throughout.

Here's the question. I have been bodybuilding for the past six years, so my hormones are always up and down. I supplement my diet with Whey Protein shakes. Now does anyone know if Whey Protein can be the cause of the acne or is it the bodybuilding itself?

The acne I experience is a pain in the ass. I don't squeeze or irritate them yet they still tend to scar up.

10 years and no real let up.

[jrandom]

It's the testosterone, dude. Are you juicing? Just be glad you're not one of those gorgeous smooth-skinned young chaps who cry themselves to sleep every night because they can't put on any muscle. The hormones have their benefits.

I always found Isotrex (topical version of Roaccutane) to work well on the nasty-arse shit that breaks out on one's shoulders and back. The pills just fucked with my mood.

[janno]

My advice - get your arse down to a good naturopath, homeopath or qualified chinese medicine doctor. Your body is out of whack somehow and I doubt conventional medicine will be able to track it down.

Although if you are taking bodybuilding steriods, which I sincerely hope you are not, acne is a major side effect of those.

If you are not doing the drugs, then your body is desperately trying to expel through your skin something it can't handle.

Taking the anti acne meds is treating the symptom, not the cause, imho.

[jrandom]

My advice - get your arse down to a good naturopath, homeopath or qualified chinese medicine doctor. Your body is out of whack somehow...

Yeah. He's got heaps of testosterone floating around in his system, which is driving his sebacious glands nuts. You can suppress the T (good lord no!), suppress the sebacious activity (Accutane, et al) or try to deal with the overload (fancy soaps).

Of the above options, only supressing sebacious activity is both effective and without unwanted effects.


I doubt conventional medicine will be able to track it down.

Jesus H. Christ. With all due respect, shut up.

FMJ, go see a dermatologist. Stat. You haven't, yet, have you?


if you are taking bodybuilding steriods, which I sincerely hope you are not, acne is a major side effect of those.

Bodybuilding steroids = testosterone, with or without a few carbon bonds shuffled around to make it more or less active in various roles. It's just like being a teenager again. Tell me, exactly why do you hope he's not on the juice? Be specific.


your body is desperately trying to expel through your skin something it can't handle.

The happy-clappy flowers and crystals shit is all good, so long as FMJ does actually get his endocrine balance checked out by a dermatologist. Don't send him off on any wild goose chases in the mean time.


Taking the anti acne meds is treating the symptom, not the cause, imho.

Nonsense. Frankly, I'd love to still have the natural testosterone levels that I had at 15. Having to use Isotrex and dealing with a few more scars on my shoulders would be a small price to pay.

[jrandom]

.. your body is desperately trying to expel through your skin something it can't handle.

This deserves further comment.

Your medical logic, here, is about on the same level as that which would bleed people to re-balance their vital humours, or sprinkle holy water on their head to expel the demons which were causing their neck pain.

You put forth pure and completely irrational speculation.

How on earth do you link infections in blocked pores due to over-active sebum production with the body 'expelling something it can't handle'?

[FlangMasterJ]

Nope juicing's for lazy cheats.

Did the isotrex work? Can you buy this from a pharmacy?

[FlangMasterJ]

FMJ, go see a dermatologist. Stat. You haven't, yet, have you?

Multiple times. He's the one that prescribes the medication. $90 to tell me I have acne (fucken genius)!

[Sanx]

My advice - get your arse down to a good naturopath, homeopath or qualified chinese medicine doctor.

There's a reason this kinda stuff's called 'alternative medicine'. It's because no-one's managed to prove it does anything. Yes, I know everyone's had a story about how conventional medicine failed and some massively diluted flower-water managed to save them, but one example does not constitute scientific proof.

Once an 'alternative medicine' is proven to work, it stops being 'alternative' and just ends up being 'medicine'.

[jrandom]

Did the isotrex work? Can you buy this from a pharmacy?

Worked way better than Roaccutane for me, but YMMV. It was over a decade ago.

Prescription only.

And I've got to admit, there's something grimly satisfying about the sharp sting of an alcohol-based gel going into the raw bloody holes that remain after you cut boils out of your shoulders in the shower. Feels like you're doing something about it, instead of just meekly waiting for the pills to take effect.

Ahhh, the joys of being a teenager. I still remember sterilising my knife on the stove before breakfast and going through the day with bandages under my shirt to stop the blood and pus from staining my clothes.

[FlangMasterJ]

Ahhh, the joys of being a teenager. I still remember sterilising my knife on the stove before breakfast and going through the day with bandages under my shirt to stop the blood and pus from staining my clothes.

Ahhhh the good ol' days.

At least on the third course I didn't get the scaly balls I did the first time round. Smelled like chicken bacon:yes:

[scumdog]

When I was a boy (just after the last dinosaur died) I used stuff called Phisohex (Or similar) and it was the only thing that worked to keep my skin oil-free and prevent acne.

[jrandom]

When I was a boy (just after the last dinosaur died) I used stuff called Phisohex (Or similar) and it was the only thing that worked to keep my skin oil-free and prevent acne.

I used the same stuff. Good cleanser, but it didn't cut the mustard when it came to controlling the scary-arse black plague shit that cropped up on the thick oily hide on my shoulders. Isotretinoin meds are the only way to go there.

[Gareth123]

DO you see a nutritionist? I went to one who recommended that i drink around 2.1L of water a day. That was worked out on my weight(i was 69kg).

Water helps out your skin BIG time! Also try using a cleanser (Nivea for men has a good range and doesn't smell girly) and afterwards moisturise. I know it sounds really gay or metrosexual to moisturise but it actually replenishes moisture lost by washing and blocks crap getting onto your skin and clogging your pores. Just wash it off at night and put it back on before bed and do the same in the morning.

Then again you could try my brothers way. He works at McDonalds, eats alot of McD's, does nothing for his skin other than wash with a damp cloth and he has no pimples at all! Also weighs 10kgs less than i do and he doesn't even do half the exercise I do! Oh how unfair!

He's even had girls ask him if he's wearing concealer?!? Some people are born with good genes. I just wish i got some of those genes too. I'd only have been fair, we are twins!

[Guitana]

Multiple times. He's the one that prescribes the medication. $90 to tell me I have acne (fucken genius)!

Fark I could've told you that for free!!!!!!!

[Toaster]

Nope juicing's for lazy cheats.


And stupid ones at that. Good on you for doing it the right way.

[janno]

jrandom - the guy asked for advice. I've given him mine, you've given him yours. Our advice is different. He will make up his own mind. What is your problem?

Don't tell me you are one of these unfortunate people who has to go on the attack every time someone disagrees with you? Life is too short for that sort of crap.

I very much doubt that you would say such things to my face if we were having this conversation around a table. By that I mean yes, you would state your views but I doubt (and I hope) you would not be so aggressively rude. It is unnecessary. It's a bit silly how people get this way behind the safety of a computer screen.

For you information, I am not particularly a tree hugging, crystal waving hippy bullshit sort of person.

I've had a kidney transplant for over twelve years - I've been through shit that you couldn't imagine, and at a much younger age than you are now - so if I was the sort of person you are implying I wouldn't get very far taking all the toxic shit and chemo I've had to do over the years, now would I? From my own experience, mixing conventional and alternative medicine has been really beneficial, and the specialists I deal with are increasingly knowlegable about both. Like someone else said, some of the alt. med. stuff I got on to over a decade ago has now found its way into mainstream and is regarded as another useful treatment.

And also for your information, my brother's friend had the same acne problem over nearly eight years of competitive body building and finally got it sorted by going to a naturopath and cutting out a few key things in his diet, changing his protein source, stopping the diet coke and taking some minerals he was deficient in. He didn't give a shit if it was alt med or what, he just wanted the problem fixed.

It's a shame that you've reacted like this - I hope it's because you're just having an off day. I still haven't worked out what you were trying to achieve from your post apart from venting your spleen. Because at the end of the day you have no more proof that you are right than I do - it's just two differing opinions and I'm sure both of us could dredge up examples to prove our point until the cows come home.

Except I'd rather do something more productive, so this is the last on this from me . . .

[canarlee]

*passes the peace pipe round*

[MotoGirl]

If you haven't done it already, I recommend getting yourself to a dermatologist.

At 24 my appalling skin hadn't buggered off so I went to the dermatologist and got Isotretinoin, the modern version of Roaccutane (but it doesn't make you want to commit suicide). I finished this course and my skin's truckloads better, unless I aggrevate it with too much sugar or caffeine.

Four of my workmates have taken either Iso.. or Roaccutane and everyone looks 100 times better.

[Hitcher]

A ranty kind of question.

A ranty kind of answer from somebody who knows way too much about acne (and worse).

Do not under any circumstances waste your money on naturopaths, homoeopaths, acupuncturists, tantric yoga or any other form of quackery. All they will do is lance the swelling in your wallet and fuck with your head. Acne is a serious medical condition and you need to find yourself a good dermotologist.

Acne in men is not generally a function of diet unless you're taking large amounts of hormones, particularly testosterone.

Roaccutane is an outstandingly effective product for all but the most severe forms of acne, and is (in my non-medical opinion) worth persisting with. The worst side effects I had was when it dried out my corneas, which was no fun at all.

A good dermatologist can be expensive but they're worth nagging as they should have a comprehensive knowledge of available therapies. It's easy to get depressed and to give up, but that, unfortunately, does not help the cause of the depression.

If it's not a rude question, how old are you?

[FlangMasterJ]

If you haven't done it already, I recommend getting yourself to a dermatologist.

At 24 my appalling skin hadn't buggered off so I went to the dermatologist and got Isotretinoin, the modern version of Roaccutane (but it doesn't make you want to commit suicide). I finished this course and my skin's truckloads better, unless I aggrevate it with too much sugar or caffeine.

Four of my workmates have taken either Iso.. or Roaccutane and everyone looks 100 times better.

That's the point I'm trying to make. I have been on Roaccutane three times over the last 8 years. The acne still returns after a couple of months. I'm trying to determine whether it may be related to my whey protein consumption combined with heavy weightlifting.

Hitcher I am 23 turning 24 in August.

The acne would be tolerable if it weren't for the scarring I'm left with. It's a catch 22, I'm trying to build an attractive physique yet I feel insecure showing it off because of my bad skin.

I really enjoy weightlifting (may be addicted.....seriously) and don't want to give it up anytime soon.

[MotoGirl]

That's the point I'm trying to make. I have been on Roaccutane three times over the last 8 years. The acne still returns after a couple of months. I'm trying to determine whether it may be related to my whey protein consumption combined with heavy weightlifting.

Hitcher I am 23 turning 24 in August.

The acne would be tolerable if it weren't for the scarring I'm left with. It's a catch 22, I'm trying to build an attractive physique yet I feel insecure showing it off because of my bad skin.

I really enjoy weightlifting (may be addicted.....seriously) and don't want to give it up anytime soon.

:doh: I must learn to read... I know my skin flares up with certain foods so it wouldn't surprise me if your protein intake was screwing with you. The thing with acne is that anything could cause it - even something as simple as sweating.

It's a bloody frustrating place you're in (I've been there too) and you just need to persevere and try and figure out what's causing it. You might need to restrict certain foods and see if it improves or disappears.

[Hitcher]

The acne would be tolerable if it weren't for the scarring I'm left with. It's a catch 22, I'm trying to build an attractive physique yet I feel insecure showing it off because of my bad skin.

I really enjoy weightlifting (may be addicted.....seriously) and don't want to give it up anytime soon.

I understand what you're saying. Having a reasonably hairy physique covers a lot (kind of has too, really), but I guess that's not a good look on a weightlifter!

Again I'd recommend having a conversation with your dermatologist about whey protein, and see whether s/he thinks a referral to an endocrinologist may be worthwhile. While I note your enjoyment of weightlifting, it's going to be doing odd things to your testosterone levels, irrespective of your diet. Taking things a bit easier for a few months so as to give the roaccutane a chance to do its thing may be an option as well.

[FlangMasterJ]

You might need to restrict certain foods and see if it improves or disappears.

I think that's the key. I'm going to find a whey protein substitute and also cut down on sugarfree caffienated energy drinks like 'V' which I have heard may cause acne aswell.

[FlangMasterJ]

I understand what you're saying. Having a reasonably hairy physique covers a lot (kind of has too, really), but I guess that's not a good look on a weightlifter!

Again I'd recommend having a conversation with your dermatologist about whey protein, and see whether s/he thinks a referral to an endocrinologist may be worthwhile. While I note your enjoyment of weightlifting, it's going to be doing odd things to your testosterone levels, irrespective of your diet. Taking things a bit easier for a few months so as to give the roaccutane a chance to do its thing may be an option as well.

Thanks Hitcher and everyone else for the advice and support. I really appreciate it.

[Hitcher]

I must learn to read... I know my skin flares up with certain foods so it wouldn't surprise me if your protein intake was screwing with you. The thing with acne is that anything could cause it - even something as simple as sweating.

It's a bloody frustrating place you're in (I've been there too) and you just need to persevere and try and figure out what's causing it. You might need to restrict certain foods and see if it improves or disappears.

Acne in women is also driven by hormones. One of the worst things a woman who is prone to acne can consume is soy products. Zitty City. Soy and some other foods are particularly high in oestrogen. You're better to use milk -- goat if you have a dairy allergy.

[jrandom]

jrandom - the guy asked for advice. I've given him mine, you've given him yours. Our advice is different. He will make up his own mind. What is your problem?

Don't tell me you are one of these unfortunate people who has to go on the attack every time someone disagrees with you?

OK, I won't tell you that. I will tell you that you would have gotten exactly the same response in person. There would, perhaps, have been an exquisitely uncomfortable silence.


It's a shame that you've reacted like this - I hope it's because you're just having an off day.

Actually, you could be right about the off day. Mild way of putting it.

Don't take the fact that I consider you to be wrong, and your position indefensible, personally. Some of my best friends are idiots, too.

[MotoGirl]

Acne in women is also driven by hormones. One of the worst things a woman who is prone to acne can consume is soy products. Zitty City. Soy and some other foods are particularly high in oestrogen. You're better to use milk -- goat if you have a dairy allergy.

:yes: Definitely hormones... I saw a dermatologist at 15 and was told I had a hormone imbalance (too much testosterone). Nowadays my skin only goes crazy when I mistreat it, e.g. by eating too much sugar and/or not drinking enough water.

One of my workmates went on Roaccutane when he was 31 so the acne may not go away with time.

[Hitcher]

One of my workmates went on Roaccutane when he was 31 so the acne may not go away with time.

One of the problems with "acne" is its name, which is loosely applied to a range of dermatological conditions from the occasional white-headed zit at one extreme (Omigod, my world has ended!) through to large supporating lesions and puss-filled tumours larger than golf balls at the other extreme. The jury is still out as to whether extreme conditions such as Hidradenitis suppurativa are caused by or related to pre-existing acne.

Many of the old-wives-tales around acne causes and cures are based on its lesser forms and, while well intentioned, are basically pointless drivel. It is also the lesser forms of this condition (it's not a disease because it is non-contagious) that also result in a myriad of zit creams and potions being advertised on television, targeted at teenage girls whose world has imploded spectacularly because of a half-dozen or so zits that may have appeared on their chins.

Not much is known medically about the causes of the more severe forms of acne other than it is possibly genetic (may run in families), affected by bodily hormones and exacerbated by other factors, such as temperature and whether the affected person is a "sweater" or not. Acne is not a function of hygiene (it's not an infection) or diet, but may be affected by both, for obvious reasons.

Teenage zit acne generally goes away in mid to late teens. More severe forms can ameliorate with age, but generally require medical interventions such as the wonder drug Roaccutane and, in the most severe forms, surgery. Untreated, bad acne will dog its sufferers for the rest of their lives.

So let's please be clear what we're talking about when discussing "acne".

[magicfairy]

And I've got to admit, there's something grimly satisfying about the sharp sting of an alcohol-based gel going into the raw bloody holes that remain after you cut boils out of your shoulders in the shower.

Ahhh, the joys of being a teenager. I still remember sterilising my knife on the stove before breakfast and going through the day with bandages under my shirt to stop the blood and pus from staining my clothes.

:sick::sick::sick:

[Sanx]

Acne is something I've never had to suffer, but I do get excema. Or Atopic excema to give it its proper title. I went to see a dermatologist by the name of David Scollay a while back, and he gave me - as well as a prescription for all sorts of interesting steroids - a nice fact sheet on the condition.

Which could be summed up as follows:

We don't know what causes it.
We don't know how to stop it.
We don't know why it appears in certain places.
We do know some things that aggravate it in some people some of the time (soap, shampoo, cosmetics, humidity, hot weather, cold wet weather, dairy, caffeine, nicotine, wool, pet hair, sugar, gluten - just about everything, really)
We do know some things that help alleviate it in some people some of the time (steroids, avoiding certain foods, avoiding pets, some chinese herbs, avoiding soap, avoiding shampoos, avoiding cosmetics, avoiding woolen clothing)
That'll be $250 please.Luckily, I have Southern Cross and the steroids do work for me.

[terbang]

Don't tell me you are one of these unfortunate people who has to go on the attack every time someone disagrees with you?


Actually you don't even have to disagree with this individual, he goes down the obnoxious path when anyone says anything contrary to his own opinion or belief. Perhaps he could set up a site called www.jrandom.co.nz (http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/) and restrict the membership to only one, himself. Now that would be a truly informative site wouldn't it with no plebs to cloud the truth..