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sAsLEX
26th September 2004, 21:32
Due to recent circumstances I am having to get my crusty old XR out of retirement and get it on the road. Its not going at the mo due to lack of spark, went when it was ridden on to trailer then didn't go when taken off same trailer later in the day (around sep last year).

A few things Motu, whats the deal with indicators, is it the same as reflectors in that they need a standard of some sort on them to pass a WOF? Oh and the likely prices of VIN etc would be cool as well if someone has that at hand.

Its and 11'84' model ME-06 6104204 or similar forgot to write down and blurry photo. Anyone out there got any knowledge on why it would of conked out? Gone through and checked for frayed/poor conections and cant seem to find anything. Was told its often the spark plug holder thing (red arrow in pic) so got a new one of them(didn't change the situation), going to get a new spark plug in the next few days and try that as well. Any more ideas, and info will be great.

Alex

Posh Tourer :P
26th September 2004, 21:44
New VIN and plate is over and above 1 years rego. COF = $150 + Rego = $370 + a little - I think it was just over $400 for the ZXR400

Did you try and clean the plug? It ought to spark anyway, even if it is cruddy. Is your coil charging up?

sAsLEX
26th September 2004, 21:51
how do you test that?? Another thing it could be is the pickup coils but again dont know how to test them.

oh and what sort of tyres can the standard wheels take?? The current front says not for highway use!

Posh Tourer :P
26th September 2004, 22:01
Is it clicking? Is there battery charge? Jam your finger in places and see when you ge a shock....

Or get some testing equipment - dunno how that works...

F5 Dave
27th September 2004, 10:30
Is it clicking? Is there battery charge? Jam your finger in places and see when you ge a shock....

Or get some testing equipment - dunno how that works...

Is it clicking? What when you kickstart it? :killingme Battery? e ess a dirt bike, e not got no battery. (these pretend mexicans don't know a double negative when they see one)

The killswitch may be shorted out, but most likely one of the ignition coils (under the engine cover) is duff, or the Ignition.

Motu
27th September 2004, 12:57
Seeing as it was running when put on the trailer I'd like to think it wasn't the CDI unit,pulse generator or trigger - but they are still possible faults.First thing is as Dave suggests - just remove the wire from the kill switch,eliminate it completly,then go over all connections,has it got an ign switch? bypass that too.To check for a weak spark that's not comming through - use an old analogue multimeter set to any voltage setting,AC/DC,whatever - put one lead down the plug connector,kick it over and look for a needle flick (you won't hurt the meter,mine is over 25yrs old and been mistreated like this for years) if you get a flick,then everything is working,you just got to find out why it's weak.

As for the indicators - the book says ''approved''....any indicator lamps off a bike will be ok,after market mini units....mmmm,dunno,that will depend upon how nasty the inspector is - be nice to him eh? Just for your information - the XR has always been in the book as not requireing indictors...this goes back to the first ones in the late 70s,early 80s when they were supposed to be competion only bikes that needed road registration - but they can't actualy remove the exemtion without a lot of hoo ha,so it stays.Whether you can exploit this fact is doubtful,you are more likely to set him into ''I'm a miserable prick'' mode.

F5 Dave
27th September 2004, 13:14
With the indicators/lights etc if it is getting VIN’d it will need to have those DOT numbers on them for some dumbarse ‘safety’ reason. Most of the cheap aftermarket stuff doesn’t. I wonder how many accidents have been caused by this omission? [Currently using a vacuum to take the piss].

Didn’t read the bit about how it went on trailer same day, I usually don’t believe people who sell or give you a bike that went just fine. Their memory is often quite selective, (like you will find bits missing etc) but it sounds like it was yours to start with.

However corrosion would be a good candidate, but sometimes coils stop working with temperature change, possibly this is what has happened & Motu’s advice with the meter should confirm this. Any decent coil rewinder should be able to check the coil.

Holy Roller
27th September 2004, 13:14
XR has always been in the book as not requireing indictors...this goes back to the first ones in the late 70s,early 80s when they were supposed to be competion only bikes that needed road registration -

Ahhhh those were the days my old 81 XR500a twin shock pathetic headlight and just stop and tail lights, what a bike took me on some adventures that bike did. I believe that the XL models had the full indicators and decent headlight... more to break when one fell off.

sAsLEX
27th September 2004, 13:27
Didn’t read the bit about how it went on trailer same day, I usually don’t believe people who sell or give you a bike that went just fine. Their memory is often quite selective, (like you will find bits missing etc) but it sounds like it was yours to start with.

However corrosion would be a good candidate, but sometimes coils stop working with temperature change, possibly this is what has happened & Motu’s advice with the meter should confirm this. Any decent coil rewinder should be able to check the coil.

it was me who rode it on to the trailer so I knows what happened.

Coil Rewinder near the Shore??

F5 Dave
27th September 2004, 13:28
Just on the site to check out something myself (seems numberplate lights have to be white (boo) kinda rules out LEDs for my special)

LTSA WOF for bikes (http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/publications/vir-manual/index.html#motorcycles)

F5 Dave
27th September 2004, 13:30
This is the only guy I’d use


J Halsey Rewinds Ltd
49 Mellons Bay Rd
Howick
Auckland
0-9-534 4161

Posh Tourer :P
27th September 2004, 18:15
Is it clicking? What when you kickstart it? :killingme Battery? e ess a dirt bike, e not got no battery. (these pretend mexicans don't know a double negative when they see one)

I wasnt talking about starter motor clicking, more about any other electrical component not charging up/discharging too soon when you turn ignition on. I seem to remember that some of them will do that if they are switching off to early or summat.

NordieBoy
27th September 2004, 19:35
Just for your information - the XR has always been in the book as not requireing indictors...this goes back to the first ones in the late 70s,early 80s when they were supposed to be competion only bikes that needed road registration - but they can't actualy remove the exemtion without a lot of hoo ha,so it stays.Whether you can exploit this fact is doubtful,you are more likely to set him into ''I'm a miserable prick'' mode.

My local inspector dude races classic mx and rides..... XR's.
I think I'll have no problem registering mine :msn-wink:

Headlight with dip, tail light, plate light, reflector and brake light working off both front and rear brake.

I've attached a zip file of all the LTSA pdf's for bikes...

sAsLEX
1st October 2004, 13:36
thanks for all the info guys.

Went today and got a new plug, and a second hand coil ( coil guy said there was no way to test so I just got another one 30$) and have taken out the kill switch.

Result still no spark, even put my finger across the terminals to see if the old finger multi meter read anything but nope.

Guy where I got the spark plug suggested the thing iniside left of engine ?stator? or something could of gone, any other ideas??

Motu
1st October 2004, 14:48
I'm not too familiar with the 250,it's about 10yrs since I was working on them,but there will be a CDI pulse generator coil in the stator,that's in the left case and the trigger is in the right side case.The pulse coming out of the alt will be a high voltage,say 250 to 600 volts,so a multimeter should pick that one up.The trigger is a lower voltage and slow,only once a rev to fire the spark - I like to use a scope to pick this one up,but you may see it with a multimeter.If you are getting the correct inputs to your CDI unit,but no out put to the coil,I'd say the CDI was stuffed.

All those exemptions in for indicators were model specific,like KT250,TY250,PE175,IT175 etc - none of those are likely to be getting WoFs anymore,so it's a non issue really - cept the XR is still a current model,and the year is not specified....heh,heh,heh... :msn-wink:

Motu
1st October 2004, 15:18
Just on the site to check out something myself (seems numberplate lights have to be white (boo) kinda rules out LEDs for my special)

LTSA WOF for bikes (http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/publications/vir-manual/index.html#motorcycles)

Choice - the VIRM online,we are alowd to use that instead if the book,we don't need hard copy on the premises - this is the first time I've seen it....bookmarked.But....for the general public? I kinda thought that was privaliged information for us with red stripes down our trouser seams,epaulets and short mustauches....

(edit) spelling is not a requirement for an AVI,a mean and uncompramising personality is.

NordieBoy
1st October 2004, 19:46
All those exemptions in for indicators were model specific,like KT250,TY250,PE175,IT175 etc - none of those are likely to be getting WoFs anymore,so it's a non issue really - cept the XR is still a current model,and the year is not specified....heh,heh,heh... :msn-wink:

But Mr Honda is phasing out the mighty XR's and giving them soft girly names like CRF and they arn't in the list.

Just got the seat vinyl for my XR today (which is going to get registered).
Red down the sides and black along the top just like the tank :cool2:

Milky
1st October 2004, 20:37
Alex - ring around for VIN and certification checks. I got quoted prices that were wildly different for the procedure. I think the maximum was $215, min $150... Could be wildly wrong though, as it was about 6 months ago that I checked it out.

sAsLEX
2nd October 2004, 13:02
I vinned my last bike without to much hassle so kinda know what to expect in that area Milky.


Tried to test what you suggested Motu, using a rather dodgy home made multimeter I seemed to get about 4-5 volts out of the stator and about 1 volt from the trigger.

wreckers on barrys point rd didn't have a CDI but the had one from a 92 CB250, anyone know if this will do the same? or of any XR250 CDIs around .

pete376403
3rd October 2004, 21:30
I undestand the first IT400s had the indicator exemption also. I'd love to bowl up on my one to have it re-registered (still has it's original number plate and a WOF dating from the late '70s on it). Is there anywhere on the LTSA site that exemptions can be verified?
Answering my own question - looked at the web site and there it is.

NordieBoy
4th October 2004, 08:05
I undestand the first IT400s had the indicator exemption also. I'd love to bowl up on my one to have it re-registered (still has it's original number plate and a WOF dating from the late '70s on it). Is there anywhere on the LTSA site that exemptions can be verified?
Answering my own question - looked at the web site and there it is.


Give it a go.
And do some enduros on it as well :cool2:

SNOman
4th October 2004, 14:44
:mad:

Oh crap, the list doesn't show my XR350. Obviously the list was compiled in the years before they made the 350. I wonder if that one could be argued

Motu
4th October 2004, 15:53
My KT250 is also exempt - but I don't think I'd be wanting to ride that on the road,although I used to ride my trials bikes to work monday mornings for the after trial service.The KT250 had a cute speedo on the fork leg.

F5 Dave
4th October 2004, 15:59
Yeah a kid at school used to ride there on one, he lived on a farm, but the school was middle of wellington so would have been a weird trip.

pete376403
4th October 2004, 16:49
Further to this registration / exemption thing - if the vehicle has been unregistered for a while (ie lots of years) when re-registered, is it to the standards of the year of manufacture or the standards of today, ie is this going to be considered as a new 2004 IT400, with all 2004's requirements?

Motu
4th October 2004, 17:58
Well that's the theory,but in practice it only has to comply with the requirements of the day - like do the brake hoses on a 1936 Ford comply? you know the answer to that one.But indicators were a requirement when the IT400 was new,the exemption was really only for racing purposes - no one expected them to be used every day on the road...but we know what happened eh? We have been told not to allow the exemption...uh...I think...maybe he was asking who wanted coffee or tea....I dunno,I'm confused now...I better have a lie down ...

Kwaka-Kid
5th October 2004, 05:01
Hey Saslex - ive sent you mail mate

i get my XR500A this weekend to put the engine into my XR200R and then my dads XR600 engine will go into the XR500A frame... yay! but like i said in the PM i will get this 500 home on saturday then can leave it as a project for after the rally if u really need a hand. Old man knows gazzilions of times more then me when it comes to them as he raced them, so ill try get him around too...DONT go spending any money as i have about 50x coils, and i might have a magneto or 3 sitting around etc ill have to check with dad and see whats not needed for his bikes. They are bobby basic and rock dude! simple as so i cant see how its not starting... im just thinking i had a spare CB250RS wiring loom that went to milky, if it was a possiblity and u talked nicely to him you might be able to use it and then get the electrics for a 12v system not 6v and have a battery etc, im no expert (will ask dad) but the CB250RS was the XL250S engine which was basically the XR250A engine right? - bu tin saying that yours is the nasty model :( RFVC written on the top there, radial valve head, make sure u give it good quality oil and dont be slack about doing oil changes often! as the first of the radial valve heads i was told were grenades (i my 200 is the first of them too).

give us a bell dude, PM or email me or something like that with your address and when u want me around. YAY cant wait to make my 500A and shove it in the 200 :D

sAsLEX
7th October 2004, 21:56
Huge thanks to KK and his Dad who have isolated the prob as the magneto and have lent me onetill I get a replacement, so hopefully I will still be on the waikato rally!!!

Motu
8th October 2004, 07:01
A magneto on an XR? whatever you got,let's hope it works.

Madmax
8th October 2004, 12:22
Any bike pre77 does not have to have indicators??
kind of usefull though

Kwaka-Kid
8th October 2004, 15:02
haha Motu, thats what i call it! its the windings part that goes inside the flywheel, the coils of wire, i call it the magneto, you probably call it whatever its supposed to be called, but magneto sounded closer and better then just fufu valve.

no sweat eh alex - the EBR workshop is coming along well, and yeah dude once u get a replacement one (no pressure) i can throw it back in my XR200 and teach a mate to ride.

NordieBoy
8th October 2004, 20:28
Any bike pre77 does not have to have indicators??
kind of usefull though

Only if it was 1st registered before 1976?

FROSTY
8th October 2004, 20:59
hey salex -i work devonport way--if ya need a hand gimme a yell.
about the indicators -they must have those lil dot triangles on em to comply.
i think forbes and davies were bringing in some accessory stuff with the right standards marks

sAsLEX
11th October 2004, 21:09
This is the only guy I’d use


J Halsey Rewinds Ltd
49 Mellons Bay Rd
Howick
Auckland
0-9-534 4161

Would this be the guy to rewind my "magneto" or whatever it is???

Kwaka-Kid
12th October 2004, 04:50
stator is most likly the right word for it.

but we can go on calling it a magneto :D

sAsLEX
14th October 2004, 13:19
went to get it vinned today, and after taking the frame numbers etc to check if I could the other day he now says it cant be registered at all, so back to square one and looking for a new bike!! Cheers for all your help KK will get the "magneto" back to you after the rally.

Blakamin
14th October 2004, 13:25
went to get it vinned today, and after taking the frame numbers etc to check if I could the other day he now says it cant be registered at all, so back to square one and looking for a new bike!! Cheers for all your help KK will get the "magneto" back to you after the rally.
What was the story???

sAsLEX
14th October 2004, 14:03
Since its not on their system it cant be registered! dunno why but eh. Just had a new front put on it too

riffer
14th October 2004, 14:13
Since its not on their system it cant be registered! dunno why but eh. Just had a new front put on it too
Can't you get it revinned as a homebuilt?

Ghost Lemur
14th October 2004, 14:14
Have you tried taking it somewhere else?

Sounds a bit dodgy if you first got the ok, and now are being told no.

Blakamin
14th October 2004, 14:25
Since its not on their system it cant be registered! dunno why but eh. Just had a new front put on it too
Bastards!!!

sAsLEX
14th October 2004, 15:08
Can't you get it revinned as a homebuilt?

dont know, will have to look in to it, but wont get the indicator exemption then?

Motu
14th October 2004, 19:34
The things a heap of crap mate - doesn't even go,the owner doesn't even know how to get it running,can't be registered - you better dump it quick - I,um...I might know someone,y'know who might be interested in taking a piece of shit like that off your hands...like,um...yeah.