Italy or NZ?

[Mekk]

Here (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/9/story.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10453545) is an article by Mr Harold that provides an interesting perspective.

OK, admittedly I cracked up laughing at the thought of an angry blind person beating cars with their stick...but then I did some comparative thinking.

This is an example of what can happen when authorities are more relaxed on things like traffic regulations.

A lot of people bitch about how they got a ticket or how this law is too strict or whatever, but personally I'd prefer our system to theirs after reading things like this.

Their attitude towards pedestrians no doubt extends to motorcyclists, so I thought it'd be interesting to get your thoughts on it. Would you prefer their system with an increased risk to your safety and having to battle for the road, or ours where the regulations are much stricter?

[Romeo]

Here (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/9/story.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10453545) is an article by Mr Harold that provides an interesting perspective.

I was wondering why the link went straight to Wikipedia, turns out you have two <b></pre>http://Http://</pre></b> in your link.

Anyways, the story seems pretty grim I must say, they all seem pretty barbaric over there ;s!

[Mekk]

Oops! Have fixed.

[MVnut]

Italy's rules are quite relaxed but they work better than here. :rockon:

[mbazza]

At least our seatbelt stats are bit higher than reported here! Cheers

[Mekk]

Italy's rules are quite relaxed but they work better than here. :rockon:

You reckon that article's just another over-hyped Harold attack?

[swbarnett]

At least our seatbelt stats are bit higher than reported here! Cheers

That's one law I'd like to see removed completely. Although I would never drive a cage without one who am I going to hurt if I crash without it? Comes down to personal choice about one's own safety (the same applies to helmets).

[MaxCannon]

Having just come back from Italy a month ago the traffic over there is total chaos.

but - I didn't see any accidents, plenty of near misses.

You certainly need to pay attention crossing the road as drivers almost never stop at pedestrial crossings .

[Katman]

Comes down to personal choice about one's own safety (the same applies to helmets).

No, it comes down to trying to lower the cost to the country (i.e. taxpayer) from serious injury caused by motor vehicle accidents.

[Brian d marge]

No, it comes down to trying to lower the cost to the country (i.e. taxpayer) from serious injury caused by motor vehicle accidents.

yup I would agree with that ,, we have insurance ,,no insurance no picky uppee the pieces

our police do sweet FA

they do a speed check the same place every week

Stephen

[swbarnett]

No, it comes down to trying to lower the cost to the country (i.e. taxpayer) from serious injury caused by motor vehicle accidents.
We have a sad lack of personal responsibility in this country.

By your reckoning I should be prohibited from climbing a mountain (or riding a bike for that matter) because of the increased risk that places me in and the relative cost increase to our health system.

I have a right to partake in any activity I choice that does not directly harm others. If you choose to pick up the pieces the responsibility for that decision is yours, not mine. You may choose not to pay for any injuries sustained in a car while not wearing a seatbelt. That decision would be yours and I respect that. You do not have the right to say I must wear one. That decision is mine to make.

Would you have the government stop paying for all smoking related illnesses? Not fund hospital stays for race drivers, pedestrians crossing against the lights, suicide attempts? Where would it end?

[swbarnett]

Having just come back from Italy a month ago the traffic over there is total chaos.

but - I didn't see any accidents, plenty of near misses.
I drove in Genova a few years back (admittedly not Rome). When I first entered the city I couldn't make head nor tail of what was going on. After 15minutes of careful observation I caught the methodology and started to have fun. I found the traffic far more predictable than here. It seems to me that everyone drives to the same set of unwritten rules, unlike here where everyone seems to have their own view on how to behave on the road.

Maybe all those near misses were actually because the drivers can be trusted to act in a certain way and therefore a smaller gap is required.

[Brian d marge]

We have a sad lack of personal responsibility in this country.

By your reckoning I should be prohibited from climbing a mountain (or riding a bike for that matter) because of the increased risk that places me in and the relative cost increase to our health system.

I have a right to partake in any activity I choice that does not directly harm others. If you choose to pick up the pieces the responsibility for that decision is yours, not mine. You may choose not to pay for any injuries sustained in a car while not wearing a seatbelt. That decision would be yours and I respect that. You do not have the right to say I must wear one. That decision is mine to make.

Would you have the government stop paying for all smoking related illnesses? Not fund hospital stays for race drivers, pedestrians crossing against the lights, suicide attempts? Where would it end?


I5ts called insurance ,,, no insurance no hospital , See the kiwis who were lost in the mountains here , no insurance dispite being told ... search party didnt bother ,

The police here dont care , they do have a moan once in a while , but they basically do nothing ... why cause the government aint paying ,,,,I am ,,,

If I dont wear a seat belt and go through the window ,,,I pay the costs , If I have insurance , a few months later I get most of the money back

No insurance ,,,,I pay the full amount ,,,,which is HUGE ....

The health system here is good ...( you can call an ambulance for anything and people do !!!
My boy had a fever so we took him to the big hospital , the poor boy had EVERY test , inclucing a cat scan and spinal tap ....cost about 60 bucks after insurance

Stephen

[swbarnett]

I5ts called insurance ,,, no insurance no hospital , ...
Exactly. I lived in Switzerland for two years. There everyone is required by law to have health insurance. If you can't afford it the government pays (just for the insurance). The health system is one of the best in the world. They will even fly you free of charge to the nearest approved country for treatment if you happen to be overseas at the time (assuming you're well enough to travel).

[SPman]

Having just come back from Italy a month ago the traffic over there is total chaos.

but - I didn't see any accidents, plenty of near misses.

You certainly need to pay attention crossing the road as drivers almost never stop at pedestrial crossings .

Surely you mean plenty of near hits - if they were near misses, they would have hit each other - as in "he nearly missed".............

perhaps the chaos over there means that the drivers are more attuned to the road and conditions - they arent lulled into the "Im going slow - I'm safe - I don't have to pay attention to whats going on.
Also,most Italians LOVE motor vehicles, including bikes.......

[Lou Girardin]

What absolute rubbish. After driving 5000 km through most of Italy, I'm sure I'd rather drive there than in NZ. Italians know how to drive and know what's happening around them, two things completely foreign to most Kiwi drivers.
They kill fewer people than we do proportionally, despite driving at speeds that our cops and LTNZ consider to be certain death.
The basic rules are, give way to cars when you need to, give way to pedestrians when they walk onto the road. This works great, but you do have to be awake to practice it.
Seeing three minor accidents, (only one on the autostradas) in 6 weeks is less than you'll see in Auckland in a week.

[Mekk]

This works great, but you do have to be awake to practice it.

I like that notion. I guess it'd be akin to a filter of bad drivers (in a sick and twisted kind of way).

The Harold seems to have portrayed them all as bad drivers though.

I struggle to see the point of the article actually, is it to lull as back into a quiet acceptance that our system is best?

[popelli]

had a holiday in italy in june, rented a car an spend a week driving around the alps

the standard of driving there is a lot higher than that in nz

no amount of leglislation is going to ever compenstate for basically what is on average an appalling standard of driving in NZ

[Max Preload]

Also,most Italians LOVE motor vehicles, including bikes.......

Hit the nail on the head. Over there they keep the children off the roads so the cars can play...

[Max Preload]

no amount of leglislation is going to ever compenstate for basically what is on average an appalling standard of driving in NZ

Perhaps not legislation in itself... but far more strict levels of skill before you're let loose on the rest of the population and regular retesting would certainly go a long way. It's unbelievable that once you've got a license you can go over half a century as a menace to other road users and ignorant of changes to regulations. Most people here don't even seem to get what flush medians are for and only ever find out in casual conversation with people who do know. NZ'ers are so unobservant.

[90s]

Perhaps not legislation in itself... but far more strict levels of skill before you're let loose on the rest of the population and regular retesting would certainly go a long way.

Agree. Level of driver training - for 15-yr olds and 'new arrivals' alike is appalling. And to accept, for example, and overseas UK licence on the same level as certain other international licences is a joke.
And how many people do you know who have bought the licence tests and learned them by rote, taken their scratch&win test and have no basic understanding of the road rules at all?

Up the age limit, add compulsory insurance, teach people how to drive properly and test them adequately. And maybe 10 yrs down the line we'll see some change.

And for those who think change can't happen, in Belgium, where I got my first full, there was no driving test until relatively recently. But although Belgian drivers are fast and furious, they understand and enforce decent driving such as lane discipline and what has emerged is a strong driving culture, like Italy, that uses the law as a guide and 'common sense' and a shared expectation to make things work.

Driving culture is key thing.
In Italy a previous post was right - people drive to a set of unwritten rules.
All over Europe its the same. For example, in Italy to cross on a zebra crossing you start to cross, and the cars do not stop, but drive around you. In the UK pedestrians just step out - cars will all stop. In Belgium you are careful. Even if you are walking on a zebra crossing and are hit by a car you can be liable for the accident as the pedestrian. But its OK becuase everyone knows that.

Here no-one has any idea about what they are up to. Govt ideas to create a culture such as speed-kills etc are deluded and self-defeating because first they have not focussed on basic skills, agreed values and rules for drivers.