The BIG C [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

Delphinus

30th July 2007, 23:17

At that stage of cancer I wouldnt bother. Had an auntie who went the chemo way, got an infection and passed away 6-12 month earlier. Not to mention the shit quality of life.

If it were really bad I'd then want the assisted suicide. Same goes for if I was in a vege state or close to it.
Alot of stress on familes during these times too... especially if you are on the brink for a while.

SARGE

30th July 2007, 23:21

Mr Merde

30th July 2007, 23:24

Always been impressed by Ernest Hemingway.

From what I understand when he was diagnosed as terminal he went to the bottom of his garden and ate the barrels of a 12 guage.

Nice and quick. Gotta beat a slow and painful exit.

I only hope that if it comes to this for me I have both the strength and the courage to follow his example.

Hitcher

30th July 2007, 23:27

If you don't buy a ticket, you don't win Lotto. Despite what the tree hugging hippies amongst us may think, modern medical treatments are one's best bet against Cancer. Yes, there are no silver bullets or guaranteed "cures", but the chances of survival/remission/quality of life are better now than even five years ago and getting better all the time.

Choose life! You'll never fail to be surprised by what it rolls up.

SARGE

30th July 2007, 23:31

Hitcher

30th July 2007, 23:36

i've had several friends go through it ..the cure is worst than the disease

There are many forms of cancer, some more extreme than others. These are not always as bad as the forms your friends may have had and many are treatable without dire side-effects.

If I were diagnosed I would ensure I fully understood the prognosis and treatment options before I took the hot bath, bottle of scotch, razorblade, Leonard Cohen option.

NighthawkNZ

30th July 2007, 23:36

My sister has cancer, (well had) and its in full remission at present, but she used all natrual treatments...

SARGE

30th July 2007, 23:39

There are many forms of cancer, some more extreme than others. These are not always as bad as the forms your friends may have had and many are treatable without dire side-effects.

If I were diagnosed I would ensure I fully understood the prognosis and treatment options before I took the hot bath, bottle of scotch, razorblade, Leonard Cohen option.

for arguments sake .. lets say " terminal" with a chance of extending a year on the lease

Crasherfromwayback

30th July 2007, 23:47

for arguments sake .. lets say " terminal" with a chance of extending a year on the lease

Rather pull the pin while I'm able! In style too.

NighthawkNZ

30th July 2007, 23:54

for arguments sake .. lets say " terminal" with a chance of extending a year on the lease

in this case since I be gonna die... I would rather have quality of quantity

Sanx

31st July 2007, 00:01

Shadows

31st July 2007, 00:22

I hope that I never have to make that decision, and until that time which I hope never comes I couldn't say for sure... but I think I'd have to fight the cunt.

12 gauge option would be a definate no-no... think of the poor bugger that finds you (maybe your missus, kid, whatever), let alone the one who has to clean it up!

blu

31st July 2007, 03:47

ok... inspired by Paul's thread ( sorry mate .. serious stuff there .. didnt want to step on it ..)

say you went to the doctor and got informed that you have advanced cancer.. you may be able to extend your life by a few months/ years by Chemo/ Radiation, but you quality of life would be shit and it would nearly bankrupt you..and your family

i think a mix of both is good, my mum had the big c she told the doctors how her treatment was going to go she used both ways made her own choices so she controled what was happening to her and told when to stick what she didnt like she is 7 yrs free from cancer.

Mrs Busa Pete

31st July 2007, 06:59

I used to say that if i was told i had the big C that i would not have chemo but then when it hits you and they say you have probley got cancer you really have to think about it.

I looked at the fact that i have 7 lovely grand children a loving husband and 3 daughters and i decided that i want a bit more time with them and esspecily with the grand kids because they are all just awsome little tresures.

So i would have to say i would try chemo and radiation

Krusti

31st July 2007, 07:39

One thing I have learnt in life is that it is very easy to say, "If that happens I am going to do this"

Once you are in that situation it is a very different story.

Fryin Finn

31st July 2007, 07:42

I watched a close friend die from cancer a couple of years ago. He passed with courage and dignity and I grew from the experience. Life is just that, from start to end - Making a contribution to those who could benefit from it. I'm comforted by his memory and when it's my time I'll try to go as peacefully as he.
Got a few more enduros and Hare scrambles to go though - and I want to do 3 laps at next years Tarawera 100 and I want a big screen telly too. (we still had plenty of laughs when he was undergoing chemo)

Nasty

31st July 2007, 08:05

Its a hard question until you are there you never know how you will react.

I know closely two people currently who are flighting cancer. One was told in January that she had two-three months to live - has soft tissue cancer .. and is still here today - not for much longer though - she wanted to see her latest grandchild born and have some time with it and she has. Yesterday she was admitted to the hospice with little hope of leaving - but she has left many times before ... keeps fighting it off.

The other is my dad was diagnosed with chronic lymphocytic leukemia 7 years ago there is no cure and it is known to have an extremely slow progression ... he had his first chemo last year .. and it almost killed him ... they somehow killed off his entire immune system .. and he has been fighting infections and crap ever since. I don't want him to die ... I want him to fight ... as a family we did have a DNR (it was a horrid decision to make but was made for the right reasons) for a while when he was so close to dying and had almost given up the fight but he rallied and fought back again.

If he ends up in chronic pain and unable to function we are abke to let him go ... it will hurt but we love him .. he surprises us constantly with his tenacity and strength (pig headedness - where did I get mine from) many times already.

So overall I think you don't really know till you are there ... and then you take so many things into account when you make the decision that you will know it is the right one.

Swoop

31st July 2007, 08:15

Might need a bit of treatment to complete the contents of the list...

deanohit

31st July 2007, 08:28

Id try and combine 2 of the options. Try and finish off the list, which will have last thing to do, pass bottle and bike keys to me (able to speed up the list to the last thing if it all gets too much)

BarBender

31st July 2007, 08:49

I'm with Mrs Busa Pete.

I'm the type that would want to go out with a bang...
However - My wife and kids constantly remind me that they have as much right to me as I do to myself...

rudolph

31st July 2007, 08:58

Last month I got Diagnosed with some weard bone tumor, after much poking and prodding it turned out to be ok. but if it was terminal I would rather hurry up and die:yes:

Paul in NZ

31st July 2007, 09:05

Every situation is unique - its far too complex for relatively simple answers and the truth is you will never really know until you personally experience it.... certainly, I would never choose for others nor judge them on their choices - when we do get to look into the face of god , we all see different things, not all of them nice.

MSTRS

31st July 2007, 09:07

One thing I have learnt in life is that it is very easy to say, "If that happens I am going to do this"

Once you are in that situation it is a very different story.

So true. And what 'you' would do, would be factored by any given day's emotional state.

janno

31st July 2007, 09:13

I would go the weirdo faith healing route because after over a decade of transplant drugs, chemo would finish me off for sure. My immune system has been suppressed for all of that time so it wouldn't handle much more mucking about with.

I'd go crystal waving hippy bullshit style just out of curiousity to see if it works. Though it probably wouldn't, considering I am fairly cynical about it all! :innocent: And you are supposed to have complete faith for faith healing to work . . .

So, I would use my last days to be a living experiment.

I wouldn't be spending thousands though, just the usual herbal remedies, lifestyle changes, meditation and positive thinking. Not interested in spending the downpayment of a house on some shonky machine operated by two inline electric toothbrushes and the like. I'd rather give the money away to a great charity, in that case.

Albino

31st July 2007, 09:15

I would be very hesitant to base a big decision like this on the opinion of people who by and large are young fit and healthy.

Sitting here in front of my PC nursing a small hangover I like to think I'd pull out my list of things to do and go hard. But in reality I have no idea what my priorities would be if it happened to me, so really my opinion is not worth shit.

Regarding the suicide option(s) - if you're concerned about the amount of money needed for the therapy and the consequences of this on your family, then you also should also carefully consider the impact it would have on your kids if their dad topped himself.

LilSel

31st July 2007, 09:29

My best friends dad (early 50's) was diagnosed with advanced pancreatic C about 2 weeks ago, himself & family told he'd be lucky to last a month.
Due to this, they are not going down the chemo/rado track. He is hooked up to a morhpine pump that doses every 4 minutes to help with the pain. This will remain untill he passes. Is at home with his family & children. I have been over there a fair bit... Its sad how quickly it has happened, in saying that however, he has been lucky to have the time to say goodbye:bye: & get things in order for when he is gone. My best friend (23) is a mess, the least I can do is be her rock.

In the circumstance above, I agree with the non treatment track.
However other cancers can be treated with more sucess, my nana's breast cancer went into remission for approx 10 years before she was diagnosed with bone cancer and passed from that in 2000. Without treatment, we would have lost her from the breast cancer a decade sooner. Im thankful for the time I had with her over the extra ten years....

Its a tough one to make a call on, I dont think I can vote on the poll as am undecided, depends on circumstances.

To all that are going thru tough times with the C monster & family & friends. My thoughts are with you.

ManDownUnder

31st July 2007, 09:31

If it was just me - I like to think I'd fight it

But having a family changes that. There's no think about it... I'd fight it, just for them. While there's breath there's hope.

And yes - I am the eternal optimist... so sue me.

Edbear

31st July 2007, 09:50

Quality of life all the way. I've always said that if I end up (for whatever reason) a vegetable in hospital, then I want the plug pulled as soon as possible. If I know I'm going to die in a few months, then fine - I can prepare for it. But what's the point in getting another twelve months at the risk of spending that entire time in constant pain and unable to do anything I enjoy.

As Sarge said, hand me the bike keys - I'm off for one hell of a ride.

Many comments along these lines here, and I understand the thinking behind it. However I recall my father, upon being diagnosed with MS, saying that if/when he reached the state of being a vegetable with no quality of life, he would want to be euthanased.

Three days before he died - a tiny, pathetic, living skeleton, riddled with bedsores, on a Morphine pump - each breath exhausted him so that he would struggle in a shallow breath and then stop breathing until he recovered enough strength to struggle in another one, speaking in an almost inaudible whisper, one word at a time, barely able to open his eyes - he was asked if he would like the nurse to stop the antibiotic drip that was warding off pneumonia and let him pass away. He gasped out, "No, keep it going!"

It is one thing to express how you would feel if you found yourself in such a position, another thing to be in that position. I have been so sick on four occaisions, the Docs are puzzled as to why I am alive, I am supposed to be dead. (I just say it proves that only the good die young...:yes:). Each time, even on the last occaision when I wanted to die to end five years of pain, I couldn't bear the thought of leaving my loved ones and considered the "easy way out" would be selfish. I fought with every once of strength I had to resist the illness that was killing me.

Ask those who are suffering serious illness or disability on this forum how they feel. :rockon:

Dad died Jan.1, '89 and I still miss him.

Toaster

31st July 2007, 11:25

Very much an individual thing in specific circumstances as far as treatment options go.

Suicide is definitely not an option. It solves nothing and only hurts more the people that love you.

Grahameeboy

31st July 2007, 11:48

If it was terminal and there was little chance of conventional medical help then I would rather just enjoy what time I have left with my Daughter and give her courage.

I would probably go for alternative medicine and use nature to decide.

When my time is up I will accept it rather than try and cheat death with Chemo etc with the likely chance that I will end my days in a Hospice or at home fed with pain relief drugs not being able to enjoy my remaing time.

I would like my Daughter to remember me as her Dad not a remnant.

Omega1

31st July 2007, 11:55

I watched my Mother n law die from liver cancer in the local hospice , it was just seven weeks from her diagnosis until she passed away, it wasn't pretty I can tell you and scared me how quickly cancer took her from us.

Live life to the fullest

judecatmad

31st July 2007, 11:58

Assisted suicide definitely, once I had reached an unacceptable quality of life. If it's terminal of course - some cancers (like pancreatic cancer) ARE a death sentence and completely untreatable. But there are many that are truly treatable, with very high success rates. But assuming a terminal diagnosis, or I'd already had chemo/radio and it hasn't worked.....then I'd definitely like to go on my terms and not have those I love made to stand trial for helping me.

Watched mum waste away with pancreatic and liver cancer in the space of 3 months. Even morphine wouldn't stop the pain in her final weeks.

We put our animals to sleep out of love, why therefore can the terminally ill not choose to go in peace instead of screaming agony?

A very personal view. I wouldn't expect everyone to agree and I totally understand the moral issues around it all.

Paul in NZ

31st July 2007, 12:14

Some very touching and thoughtful replies here...

What a wonderful forum this is - especially lately - and above all it reassures me that our species aint all that bad eh.. KB rocks...

bungbung

31st July 2007, 12:42

My dad was first diagnosed with colon cancer, fast forward a year to liver cancer and one more year, this time a terminal brain tumour.

I was 20 years old when he died. In his particular case, I'm grateful for the eighteen or so good months following surgeries to the colon and liver.

The final six months were gruelling for him and painful to watch.
Having such a long time to come to terms with the end is both a blessing and a curse, at times you wish you could hit fast-forward.

The Stranger

31st July 2007, 15:57

Matt Bleck

31st July 2007, 16:34

Almost 10 years ago now my Mum died from liver cancer, it started as bowel cancer, they thought they had got it, but it then started in the liver.

To watch her waste away in the 6 months it took was the hardest thing I've ever been thru. I would not wish this on my worst enemy. In the end she was so wasted on morphine that she didn't know who i was. I was glad when she finally passed, glad that her torment was over. She was 43 FFS!!!

If it happens to me, I don't want my wife and children to go thru that. I would rather dissappear, jump from a plane and not pull the chord, ride head first into a brick wall at 200 clicks..... anything to save them from the pain and angush of watching me waste away.

SPman

31st July 2007, 17:04

Whilst I would like to think I would go out in style, active to the end and farting in the general direction of death, once the Reaper is walking grimly towards you, sharpening his scythe, it's amazing how you then want to hang on to every last breath - if only to spite him!

Mom snuffed it with lung cancer. The surgeon convinced her they could take out a lung and save her, but it was an open and shut case! Luckily she went quickly after that, 2 weeks after starting to take morphine and 2 days after going on the pump. A strange twist was that a friend of hers, who came to see her 4 weeks before she died, went home,complained of feeling off colour, went to the Dr and was dead of cancer within 2 weeks!

A flying mate of mine, diagnosed with terminal stomach cancer at 40, wanted to go up in a microlight and end it all, enjoy the scenery before flutterin to earth, but by the time he wanted to do it, he was too weak to get it into the air....

scumdog

31st July 2007, 17:33

I'd give the treatments a shot if it was a real option of extending my life AND the quality of it.

Ride/shoot/drive/root until I was waay past it - then leave a tidy corpse for the undertaker with an instant 'lights-out' method..

Oh, and that is why I relish being well over 50 - I got there and treasure each day and know some on this site will never get that old, very sad.

Goblin

31st July 2007, 17:41

I watched my Grandfather, Pa, waste away to the point i didn't recognise him when I went into his room at the hospital. He was being treated for pnumonia and had been ill for three months. Only after he died, the autopsy revealed lung and liver cancer.

About two years ago my friend's dad was diagnosed with bowel cancer. He had several operations and treatments but kept getting sicker. The doctors told him and the family about an expensive ($40-50k) operation that might give him more time. Of course under this kind of emotional stress, it gave them hope so they borrowed money and paid for the op. He died on 25th September last year. Mum has had to sell her house to pay back the loan.

I have another friend in his fourties who had a lump removed from his throat a month or so ago. Now he's off to Waikato to have his thyroid removed this week. Hope he fights it and wins.

I voted for the bottle, bong and keys if it were terminal but having the balls to actually do it would be another story.

Mom

31st July 2007, 17:51

I lost my best friend to cancer 10 years ago, she was 38 when she died. She was given the "this is terminal" talk when she was first diagnosed. She had been fighting this disease for 8 long years and never gave up until about 2 weeks before she died. She gained 8 years of her children (11 & 13), but most of all we had her with us for that time also. I perhaps would have given in to it before she did, it was not a pleasant way to die.

My Mom is at the end of her struggle with it. Talking to her tonight she says another night like she had last night and that will be it for her, she will give up too. Her call, for us it is quality all the way. Her treatment nearly killed her, she has suffered horrendous side effects for the past 6 years, but has enjoyed more good than bad days so was content. The scales reversed some months ago, and now it is getting too much.

For me from a really personal point of view, take the treatment. I would want to spend as much time with my loved ones as I could.

wilber

31st July 2007, 18:10

Easy to say on here ,you dont know what you would do .
When I got told you have cancer I went through the what ifs and why the flock me ,lucky for me kidney removed the problem fixed and all clear to date .
So after that went to lifes to short thing bought the TLS and started to clear the wanted to do list ever since.

NotaGoth

31st July 2007, 19:51

I lost my dad 2 and a half years ago to cancer... We first found out after we came back from his fathers funeral.. And he ended up in really bad pain... He was given 2 months to live (if he was lucky..) I remember they operated and removed a tumour... But missed one... No one listened to him when he kept saying he was still in pain.. Eventually he had to be sent in for emergency surgery... It was what they found the 2nd time that killed him... They never caught it early enough...

Despite everything he braved it up, went through all the treatment... I never forget how sick the treatment made him... His blood thinned out really bad, to the point little cuts could be dangerous as he bled so easily..

It was the most difficult thing for him to have to go through... Sometimes when I think about how much pain he was in it breaks my heart... But every day he fought it as much as he could... Because he loved us... Despite everything there was never a day where he thought about giving up... Because with us is where he wanted to be, he didn't ever want to leave us...

He managed to spend a very precious 3 years with us.... Before his liver finally packed in... He had just turned 46.. And passed I think 12 days before my little brothers birthday.. I still love him and miss him everyday... What I wouldn't give to tell him how much I love him..

I think its easy for one to sit here and say "I'd do this" or "I'd do that" Until you actually go through it all for yourself you don't really know what you'd do..

The thing I remember most is the mess my dad was in during the 2 weeks before he past... I have bad images of the last things I seen, that I just can't get out of my head... If I knew anyone who had cancer who wanted to end their life.. I would respect their wishes.. I wouldn't think of them any differently... No one should have to ever go through that.. I would still always have as much respect for someone who ends their life because of it, as I would for someone who stood there and fought til the bitter end..

ynot slow

31st July 2007, 21:48

but the chances of survival/remission/quality of life are better now than even five years ago and getting better all the time.

Choose life! You'll never fail to be surprised by what it rolls up.

Agree there,I was told after a scan last year by doctor,you have cancer, growths in pelvic region,and couple growths in lung,had another scan and most likely scar tissue,12 mths later no growth,not every day you are told you have cancer and find out opposite.Thankfully my oncology doctor didn't rush into chemo,but wanted a couple of scans first.

Also at time my oncology doc said if I needed chemo it would be tablet,not introvenous like last time 4 yrs ago,that is the advances being made.

If I found out it was so far advanced,obviously treatment comes into it but if I thought assisted suicide was available over life of crap I'd hope family would respect my wishes,afterall I've been there before and know the effects it can have on you.