Travel expenses (IT) what do you get?

[xgnr]

Hi all

Been having a discussion/debate at work regarding travel expenses for an IT services company where staff (consultants or Support staff, permanent not contract) have to travel to a site for meetings or provide on site support etc. This work is usually done as part of a Managed Services Agreement.

The current expense policy is they get there and back at their own cost. Which I believe in unreasonable.

CFO states that if we can recover this then fine we will reimburse. CEO states this is standard practise in the industry (but he is from SA so...) My challenge is to do some research.

By the way this is Auckland... the policy states that this area is defined as any location that has 09 as a dialing prefix which effectively covers a HUGE area.

Interested in any one that works with/has worked in IT services company's and what the policy has been.

I have never struck this "policy" before. Anywhere I have worked it is claimed as mileage or as an expense (taxi etc) or even better, they provide a car.

Feedback much appreciated :yes:

BTW the employment offer states that we will pay travel costs (go figure)

Cheers

Stu

[Hitcher]

You're working for twats. The 09 calling area includes all of Northland. And what idiot would take on a job that involved attending customer call-outs at their own expense?

Is this a serious thread?

[merv]

Usual thing is if it costs money its a legitimate business expense and as Hitcher says only a twat wouldn't have that covered as part of their contract.

If you're one of the guys involved they should either supply you transport or pay expenses.

If you are using your own vehicle for work check your insurance terms.

[Toaster]

I'm not in that industry but yes.... if I have to use my own transport, I get reimbursed for travel and parking (and coffee, lunch, dinner, lap dances....)

[MotoGirl]

I work for a software development company and our situation is this: the company always pays for transport. This applies regardless of whether we catch a taxi, hire a car, or use a company vehicle. We generally oncharge the travel expenses to whichever client we're going to visit.

On the very rare occasion, we will take our own vehicle. If this is the case, we're paid 71 cents a kilometre. For me to drive from Auckland to Tauranga (return) I would pocket around $260 but the petrol only costs me $80.

[imdying]

Yikes, I work for an IT company... I just charge everything to the credit card... then they pay it all, accomodation, flights, taxis, rentals, donuts, reading material, 5 course dinners, lunch, pay per view movies, everything!

Not sure about the services guys though, I'm 100% sure they'll be reimbursed though.

[xgnr]

You're working for twats. The 09 calling area includes all of Northland. And what idiot would take on a job that involved attending customer call-outs at their own expense?

Is this a serious thread?

Indeed it is a serious thread. Issue here is that the expense policy states (and no one reads an expense policy before signing an employment contract right) that your local travel is at your own cost within the city. (defined as 09 call code).

I have staff that work for me that I have always reimbursed yet recently the CFO has spouted the policy. I leaned on him and it was paid.

I have been challenged that this is a "standard" policy. I have said "bullshit" I think it comes from previous Services manager who was a sales person (where package usually includes car/allowance).

Being totally fuked off with this bollocks I am gathering facts from a number of sources as to reality so I can present a valid argument. At the end of the day it's my business unit and any bullshit policy like this impacts my team and their morale.

Its not a regular thing but it pisses me off... :angry:

[geoffm]

Check your insurance - if you are using your vehicle for work purposes, you are not covered! Sure it is your car, and the risk is the same but those are common limits in most policies
I get 65c/km for my own car.
The company pays if I have travel expenses on the job. It is tax deductable for them and not for the wage slave, so it is 2/3 the cost you pay anyway.
G

[Quasievil]

Company reimburses the employee while carrying out Company business, end of story.
Also, watch your insurance, you might find you arent covered if using your vehicle for company business, its in the fine print or was in my AMI fine print.

[Quasievil]

Hey Geoffm....................great minds lol

[merv]

Hey Geoffm....................great minds lol

Seeing I said it first we do eh!

[MOTOXXX]

ooh that reminds me i need to fill out an expense claim for my travel.

also there are a lot of IT jobs at the moment. Just start leaving seek pages open on your desk n shit.

[xgnr]

ooh that reminds me i need to fill out an expense claim for my travel.

also there are a lot of IT jobs at the moment. Just start leaving seek pages open on your desk n shit.

I'm more worried that my staff are going to do the same. i.e. go elsewhere ..god knows its hard enough to get good IT people let alone explain to them why we cant (won't) pay their damn travel costs to a customer site.

Please post to the survey guys. It will help me have some stats :yes:

[Lil_Byte]

I'm more worried that my staff are going to do the same. i.e. go elsewhere ..god knows its hard enough to get good IT people let alone explain to them why we cant (won't) pay their damn travel costs to a customer site.

Please post to the survey guys. It will help me have some stats :yes:

I have worked for a number of IT companies including some in the Auckland area. Have always been reimbursed by the company.

An agreement was always in place with our clients and they paid all travel expenses including parking (up on presentation of reciepts). And always travel time as well.

Tell the CFO to get his shit together :scooter:

[NinjaBoy]

When I used to work for a Vendor or a consulting firm I either had a company car or my mileage between our office and the client site was always reimbursed.

If my usual place of work was at the client site ( eg. as a consultant on an engagement) then I could only claim the km's in excess of the distance from home to office.

Usually the expense policy is a clause in your employment contract so check this carefully or ask for a copy of the policy before signing.

You've described a rather unusual company policy and is definitely not an industry standard.

[mdooher]

I refuse to use my own vehicle point blank.... the reason I give is that it is not covered by my insurance.

Problems for the company are the H&S in the workplace act. Means they are resposible for your saftey when you are driving for them so they need to ensure you have a safe car etc... How can they do that if you drive your own Reliant Robin

Oh yeah, your boss needs to realise he is in fact a spanker...I bet he gets reimbursed for ALL his travel.

[Drunken Monkey]

Hmmm,

IT Covers such a broad range of specific occupations, each have generally accepted diffferent modes of operation.

Situation 1: By IT you mean "Network Engineer" or similar. Network engineers are typically expected do do a fair amount of hands on work, you can't plug in cards ands cables via a modem (not yet, anyway), so going to customers is an expected part of the job. Some companies provide a work car, other comapnies expect the engineer to provide their own car and will reimburse expenses using the IRD's km scale. It is certainly not unusual for small and medium network service providers to expect their engineers to supply their own car, but I've never heard of a place that doesn't have some sort of reimbursement scheme (until now)

Situation 2: (my sit) I provide network services as a contractor. I have to supply all my own tools, vehicle included. I don't charge vehicle expenses specifically, but as I charge time, my time begins from when I leave base NOT when I arrive at customer's site. Customers outside of greater Auckland will have travel time charges fixed at a rate negotiated by the engineer and the customer. We typically aim for somewhere around cost, so a 50% discount on time (i.e. the engineers still gets paid but the company makes no profit on the time). Where flights are required, the flight cost is on charged and discounted travel applies (travel to/from airport and flight time).

Situation 3: By IT you mean someone in software services. Usually these people aren't expected to go on site much, if at all. The times that they do, a work vehicle is normally provided if there is one available. If not, travel expenses are reimbursed using the IRD scale.

Situation 4: Network Admin types (as opposed to engineers) - typically work as a salary worker for one company only, doing internal IT support. Travel is not normally expected as all work can be carried out on site. Some companies have branches and travel is expected. The company will typically pay all expenses, i.e. taxi to airport and airfares. Again, normal practice is a km reimbursement using the IRD scale OR the engineer will drive the work car.

Those are the only 'flavours' of IT I can comment on from direct experience. There are a range of consultancy services which also sometimes fall under IT, although they may be more accurately compared to professional services. Not sure what their methods are, but are probably most likely to be the same as sit 3.

[Albino]

Mileage is a tax deductable expense up to 5,000 kilometers per year.

It all depends what's in your contract, but I'd expect a significant amount of extra $$ per annum if I was expected to pay my own mileage.

If I was you I'd find another job now while the market is still short of skilled labour.

[ManDownUnder]

LOL... nope... they're pulling a fast one on you. The expenses incurred are company expenses and you need to be reimbursed at either an agreed or the public service rate per km.

End of story.

Turn the scenario on it's head... what if your car breaks down. That means the company no longer has access to the use of your vehicle... so you're... in breach of contract? Unable to perform your duties?

errr... no. It means the company needs to find you an alternate means of getting on site... kinda confirming the fact they need to provide you means anyway. You happen to supply the means... and THEY NEED TO PAY FOR IT.

[Drunken Monkey]

Mileage is a tax deductable expense up to 5,000 kilometers per year.

That statement by itself isn't entirely correct. The whole schedule is here:
http://www.ird.govt.nz/payroll-employers/make-deductions/staff-benefits/allowances/emp-deductions-allowances-mileage.html

[Pumba]

Im not in IT but an Civil Engineer (site visits, meeting etc, etc) any way when I was placed put on loan by my work to a council I had the right to charge them for the milage over what I would normally use to get to the office.

Ok say the office is 10km from home, the council ofices are 30km from home, I had the right to claim for 20km milage.

I think think that made sense.

[The Pastor]

DUDE YOU GOT PWND, GET ANOTHER JOB, OR GET IT SORTED OUT PRONTO.

i WANNA HEAR FROM THE 4 PPL WHO PAY? WHATS YOUR DEALS?

[ManDownUnder]

DUDE YOU GOT PWND, GET ANOTHER JOB, OR GET IT SORTED OUT PRONTO.

i WANNA HEAR FROM THE 4 PPL WHO PAY? WHATS YOUR DEALS?

From Drunken Monkeys link to the IRD site

Standard rates for motor vehicles

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH vAlign=top>Annual work-related km</TH><TH>Rate</TH></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2>Banded rate</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left width="50%">1 to 3,000 km</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left width="50%">62 cents per km</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD vAlign=top width="50%">3,001 km and over</TD><TD vAlign=top width="50%">19 cents for each km over 3,000</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2>Flat rate</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD vAlign=top align=left width="50%">Any distance</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left width="50%">28 cents per km</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Standard rates for motor cycles

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH vAlign=top>Annual work-related km</TH><TH vAlign=top>Rate</TH></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD colSpan=2>Banded rate</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left width="50%">1 to 3,000 km</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left width="50%">31 cents per km</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD vAlign=top width="50%">3,001 km and over</TD><TD vAlign=top width="50%">10 cents for each km over 3,000</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2>Flat rate</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD vAlign=top align=left width="50%">Any distance</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left width="50%">14.5 cents per km</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


<TABLE style="BORDER-RIGHT: #999 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #999 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #999 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #999 1px solid" width="70%"><TBODY><TR class=oddrow><TH width="10%">Note</TH><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD colSpan=2>For more information, including examples of the rates mentioned and the flat rate formula go to Forms and guides > Motor vehicle reimbursing rates > </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Individual special rate for all vehicles

This method allows fixed costs such as depreciation, interest, insurance and registration to be better apportioned to work-related travel. The rate is based on the cc rating of the vehicle. The fixed and running costs are:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH vAlign=top width="29%">cc rating</TH><TH vAlign=top width="34%">annual fixed costs</TH><TH vAlign=top width="35%">running costs (cents per km)</TH></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="29%">up to 1,300cc</TD><TD vAlign=top width="34%">$4,214</TD><TD vAlign=top width="35%">16.7c</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD vAlign=top width="29%">1,301-1,600cc</TD><TD vAlign=top width="34%">$4,507</TD><TD vAlign=top width="35%">17.2c</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="29%">1,601 -2,000cc</TD><TD vAlign=top width="34%">$5,475</TD><TD vAlign=top width="35%">19.1c</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD vAlign=top width="29%">over 2,000cc</TD><TD vAlign=top width="34%">$6,308</TD><TD vAlign=top width="35%">22.2c</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Which rate suits you?

You will need to work out which rate is best for you.
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH vAlign=top align=left width="17%">Rate</TH><TH vAlign=top align=left width="44%">Advantages</TH><TH vAlign=top align=left width="38%">Suits....</TH></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD vAlign=top width="17%">Banded</TD><TD vAlign=top width="44%">Takes into account the fixed costs of owning a car for the first 3,000 kms, and only running costs beyond that.</TD><TD vAlign=top width="38%">people who do a smaller amount of business travel.</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="17%">Flat</TD><TD vAlign=top width="44%">Has a proportion of the fixed costs allocated to every km.</TD><TD vAlign=top width="38%">people who do a larger amount of business travel.

For more than 14,333 kms of business-related travel in a year, this rate provides a greater reimbursement than the banded rate.</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD vAlign=top width="17%">Individual special</TD><TD vAlign=top width="44%">You only use the flat rate for work-related travel.

There is no absolute cut-off distance at which the individual special rate produces a higher rate than the standard rate, because it depends on the total distance travelled and the work distance travelled. As a general guide, a low total mileage for the year (business and private), combined with a high proportion of business mileage is likely to favour the individual special rate.</TD><TD vAlign=top width="38%">people who use a vehicle almost exclusively for work purposes.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Actual expenditure option

If you believe your vehicle expenditure is higher than the rates given, you can use the actual expenditure option.
You can reimburse an employee's actual expenditure instead of using the mileage rates. For this method both the employer and employee must keep accurate records, including details of private and work-related expenditure, to justify the reimbursements.

[xgnr]

Thanks guys

Just want to mention that we are an IT Services Company (Consultants, Managed Services etc). Our people travel to site from work (consultants- frequently), (Services- infrequently) but same dumb is dumb rule applies. i.e. no travel in the 09 zone is payable...

I have been advised today that "equivalent" company's i.e. SAP/Oracle have the same policy:gob: anyone who has worked as a consultant with these guys comment please?

I am paid a good salary and "wear" it as a professional.(Although the running around 300K a week is costing me shitloads and I'm getting tired of it) Best thing about it is that I can do most of it on the bike.

Just waiting for someone up top to bitch about it... customers love it as its a great way for those that you don't talk to often to remember you (mad bastard on the bike in this weather)

Still trot out the suit and cage when building a new customer relationship :yes:

Cheers all

[What?]

...I had the right to charge them for the milage over what I would normally use to get to the office.

Ok say the office is 10km from home, the council ofices are 30km from home, I had the right to claim for 20km milage.

Same here - 70 cents/km (govt. 2000cc rate) for any distance travelled in excess of normal home to work distance.

[James Deuce]

IT Travel expenses? I have a Taxi card. I get snarled at if I use it.

[sanchez]

I am provided with a car and fuel card here in welly, anything down south I am rented a car on a company card. I end up paying for everything else but gas (food, accomodation, taxis) out of pocket and getting reimbursed, which kinda sucks, but it's a lot better than what you're getting.