From a cage perspective

[Usarka]

this'll make friends bahahaha.

If i'm driving in a single lane in my workmobile and a car pulls out in front of me I will go around to the left without looking for a bike because you shouldn't be there!

pass on the right that's where every one expects you to pass. if your going to pass on the left of moving traffic then i hope the horn was a "please notice me" rather than a "fuck you arsehole" :lol: next time i'll look, but next time dont be there!

ducks and runs for cover oooma rapitti oooma rappiti ooma oooma oooma.:chase:

[jrandom]

Single lane? Yup, you're quite within your rights to swerve wildly to the left with your eyes closed. Naturally, you'd never pull over into another lane to your left without checking carefully, would you?

Good, I thought not.

Of course, one could say that relying on other road users to behave within arbitrary parameters is a doomed philosophy right from the start, but I'm sure your well-intentioned thread, here, will nonetheless do oodles of good for all the thoughtless motorcyclists reading it.

[FROSTY]

If i'm driving in a single lane in my workmobile and a car pulls out in front of me I will go around to the left without looking for a bike because you shouldn't be there!.:chase:
NO burn from me-As long as it was a single lane road I agree passing on the left is a pretty dumb move

[Usarka]

i felt pretty stink to be honest. i always check when moving right or changing lanes (incl head check learnt from riding) and was quite surprised that i didnt in this instance heading left. was a last minute thing and *assumed*:nono: that no one would be silly enough to pass on left.

my point in posting kinda was that if thats how a biker behaves in a car.........

[Grahameeboy]

Brakes???....................

[jrandom]

my point in posting kinda was that if thats how a biker behaves in a car.........

Of course.

Personally, I'd never ride past a car on the left in a single lane unless I was sure that I could do it quickly enough and with sufficient space that he wouldn't be able to swerve into me.

[Nasty]

Good post ... good points ... and no it wasn't me :)

[mbazza]

1. I have noticed an increasing tendancy for drivers (all sorts) to swerve to the right, across the centre lane when the way ahead is impeded, like by a vehicle turning left into a drive way. It is as if the swerving driver hasn't got the time to break and wait. Happens more often on the bike, but I observe it happening when I am following also.
2. On recent Aussie trip I realised that Aussie drivers are more predicatble in single and multi lanes. Makes riding the bike easier. Only problems seen were idiots with load music and a Darwinian injection.
Cheers :)

[Pancakes]

I agree that passing on the left is illegal therefore you would be in the right if you hit someone. This is no reason to not look tho! What if a child was walking onto the road? They shouldn't be there either? If you kill someone but are legally not at fault will you feel any better? Is this not looking because if someone is there they are in the wrong going to serve you well if you take the habit over to your riding? If you are insisting people don't ride illegally (pass on the left) you must do the same and be aware of all vehicles around you, if you are aware that someone is there will you pull into them anyway to proove your point potentially at the expence of their life? Follow them home and tell their wife they were 1 second away from death because they were passing illegally and that her and the kids would be dad-less and cash-less if he died breaking the law then leave it to her!!

edit, not having a go at you bro but other peoples mistakes can haunt you for a lifetime, my best friends dad is one of three brothers. His oldest bro was driving home drunk as and the other bro was driving away from the house. Big brother looses it around a corner and drivers door hits the other brothers car right in the front (big old ozzy cars, no crumples zones, no belt on). Little brother did nothing wrong, no charges laid and police said he had done waht he could to loose the speed etc but the other car was blocking the road. Still saw his brother die in some crushed tin jammed on the front of his car tho a.

[Coldrider]

I agree that passing on the left is illegal therefore you would be in the right if you hit someone.

The law never states who is in the right, only who is wrong, or who must give way. We never actually have a right of way. That's why the law is an ass, and lawyers rip us off.

[Pancakes]

Yep your right. No rights just wrongs.

[Boob Johnson]

Single lane? Yup, you're quite within your rights to swerve wildly to the left with your eyes closed. Naturally, you'd never pull over into another lane to your left without checking carefully, would you?

Good, I thought not.

Of course, one could say that relying on other road users to behave within arbitrary parameters is a doomed philosophy right from the start, but I'm sure your well-intentioned thread, here, will nonetheless do oodles of good for all the thoughtless motorcyclists reading it.*And the award of 17 virgins for th e post of the year goes too.............*


lol seriously well said :niceone:


(rep on the way)

[ceebie13]

So, let me get this straight.... is it actually illegal to over take on the left on a dual carriageway? This country seems inundated with members of the RLOC (Right Lane Owners Club) and since being in NZ, I have adopted what seems to be the norm...ie: if the person in the RH lane ahead is oblivious or won't move to the left lane, I overtake him/her on the inside. What we call "undertaking" in the UK.

I'm sure the answer is in my Road Code but I can't be arsed to go look for it!

[McJim]

When a car pulls out in front of me - I slow down.

It's not a race...although most kiwi drivers seem to think that it is....odd.

[McJim]

So, let me get this straight.... is it actually illegal to over take on the left on a dual carriageway? This country seems inundated with members of the RLOC (Right Lane Owners Club) and since being in NZ, I have adopted what seems to be the norm...ie: if the person in the RH lane ahead is oblivious or won't move to the left lane, I overtake him/her on the inside. What we call "undertaking" in the UK.

I'm sure the answer is in my Road Code but I can't be arsed to go look for it!

Where there is marked lane separation it IS legal to overtake on the left. Undertaking is arranging funerals though. Overtaking on the left is illegal in the UK unless the car in front is turning right (Not saying this for your benefit ceebie13 as I'm sure you already know this).

However in the UK it is also illegal for an articulated vehicle (such as a lorry or B train) to occupy the second overtaking lane (yep they're not called fast lanes) AND a car using the centre lane of three can be charged for using the lane WHILE NOT ACTUALLY OVERTAKING ANOTHER VEHICLE.

Wish we had some of those laws here - the cops would make a fortune booking the drongos without a clue and we would be free to pootle through the countryside at a civilised 70mph.

[avgas]

Brakes???....................
Apparently not, nor following distances or driving to the conditions.
I disagree that swerving anywhere is a good strategy.
Here is a scenario for you, you are driving on a bridge, you have your same problem, would you swerve into oncoming traffic, or off the bridge?
Most of us would slow down.
You have to remember that not only could a bike be there, but some kids riding in a group, someone down on there luck hitching etc.
Piss poor driving skills mate

[Usarka]

Haha, knew this would stir things up

one thing im not sure on is how a kid crossing the road or a hitchhiker could be passing me on the left at 50kph!

Yep bad driving skills on my part. bloody useless riding skills on the biker involved imho.

but the point is that if you pass on the left you are putting yourself somewhere where you are not expected to be and therefore you cannot expect that the person to look for you. yes they should look but thats not the point. if you don't understand this as a biker then i hope luck is on your side!

[Albino]

Apparently not, nor following distances or driving to the conditions.

How do you have a following distance behind a car that's pulled out in front of you?

How many bikers wouldn't go around a car that pulled in front of them if they could? I've read many posts on KB with people saying they wouldn't use their brakes to get out of a situation if there was an option to manoeuvre and use the throttle.

Agreed he should have checked or been more aware, but I think some of the replies are a bit hypocritical and would be much different if Usarka had been on a bike in the same incident.

[James Deuce]

The vast majority of NZ car drivers are selfish arseholes, who wouldn't waste a moment's thought on anyone they hurt or killed, particularly if it was the other road user's "fault".

[Albino]

I couldn't agree more, I used to think it was like the old goofy cartoon and people change when they get into their cars but these days I think it's starting to spread outside of that into everyday selfishness (eg the chivalry thread). But I've seen just as many people on bikes with the same attitude - the only difference being they're less likely to kill someone else.

The reason we have road rules is so that all parties are travelling in a predictable manner, therefore making it safer for all involved. If someone choses to act outside of those rules while around other traffic then they need to be prepared to accept responsibility and the possible consequences, especially if they are the more vulnerable. When I speed I accept that a car driver will probably misjudge my velocity and pull out on me.

[90s]

Haha, knew this would stir things up

one thing im not sure on is how a kid crossing the road or a hitchhiker could be passing me on the left at 50kph!

Yep bad driving skills on my part. bloody useless riding skills on the biker involved imho.

but the point is that if you pass on the left you are putting yourself somewhere where you are not expected to be and therefore you cannot expect that the person to look for you. yes they should look but thats not the point. if you don't understand this as a biker then i hope luck is on your side!

In no way should this view be condoned. All responsibility is yours when you are in control of any vehicle. And you have forgotten a class of road users who may undertake you legally on the left of a single lane road and may be travelling up to 75kph and who are very poorly-protected - cyclists.

Now a cyclist who puts themselves in a situation where you can take them out is doing themselves no favours. But 100% of the moral responsibility will be yours if you kill them.

Try saying "they shouldn't have been there" and see how it helps you sleep at night.

....


An the other issues, cops have told me here there is no lane discipline in NZ on motorways. They are wrong as it is laid out in the raod code - although not clearly. Undertaking is legal in many situations (as it is in the UK when "keeping up with traffic flow", ie. heavy traffic with different lanes moving at different speeds). Bikes should be wary undertaking anywhere.
Having spent two weeks in France legally driving on the peages at 140kph, with much of the traffic doing well over 160kph, it was a joy as lane discipline was perfect. As sad as it makes me, Kiwi drivers could not handle highway speeds over 100kph because in general they lack an understanding of good driving protocols, awareness and responsibility.

And that last one starts with not assuming anything, but being responsible for all your choices.

[90s]

Haha, knew this would stir things up

Well you were on the money there ...

[Pancakes]

Wish we had some of those laws here - the cops would make a fortune booking the drongos without a clue and we would be free to pootle through the countryside at a civilised 70mph.

I understand that going slow in the "fast" lane is ticketable under the obstructing traffic umberella, up to $1300 fine?! So the law makers obviously think misplacing yourself in the traffic flow is comparable with speeding against the traffic flow. Ho the po-po have been told to enforce these rules and the priority given to each is clear.

Ursaka, dude, your bang-on that was a dumb move by the rider and is a neat way to get collected and messed up or cornered if more traffic pulls out. Going around is the first choice for most riders and I have done it too on many occaisions, did think at the time tho' "ooh, not the best choice!" In saying that I also never assume anyone has seen me and almost daily cars change lanes onto me even when I'm doing everything 100%. I think thats part of what makes riders take those risks, I do think sometimes, fuck it, people are out to hit me anyway I may as well have the benefit of doing what I want at least.

[McJim]

An the other issues, cops have told me here there is no lane discipline in NZ on motorways. They are wrong as it is laid out in the raod code - although not clearly. .

The reason the motorway protocols are not used here is that there are only about 200km MAX of real motorway in New Zealand (Don't go calling 2 lanes in each direction a motorway - that's a normal A class road not an M class!)

So it doesn't really matter. I'll bet at least 30% of Kiwis never see a motorway unless they go on holiday to a big country.

[Albino]

In no way should this view be condoned. All responsibility is yours when you are in control of any vehicle. And you have forgotten a class of road users who may undertake you legally on the left of a single lane road and may be travelling up to 75kph and who are very poorly-protected - cyclists.

Now a cyclist who puts themselves in a situation where you can take them out is doing themselves no favours. But 100% of the moral responsibility will be yours if you kill them.



1/ Cyclists are bound by the same road rules as everyone else. They are not allowed to pass moving traffic on the left.

2/ Not condoning the behaviour won't stop it happening. Don't pass on the left and it won't happen. Your putting yourself in danger - what's wrong with the right hand side?


And that last one starts with not assuming anything, but being responsible for all your choices.
Yep, that includes us bikers.

[McJim]

1/ Cyclists are bound by the same road rules as everyone else. They are not allowed to pass moving traffic on the left.

Yep, that includes us bikers.

Car drivers won't let us pass on the right - the bastards speed up. Just coz they're fat gits that need to use lots of distilled entrails of million year old dead animals in an internal combustion engine to go fast yet we hone our sleek muscular bodies into superb speed machines.

Shame we have to go splat just coz the car driver's wife ain't putting out eh?

[Kinje]

I can't cycle fast enough to pass cars on the left unless they are stationary. The cars pass me on the right. A cager could swerve back on a cyclist after passing them- I have had it happen to me as he passed me then immediately turned across my path into a driveway.

[Pancakes]

I can't cycle fast enough to pass cars on the left unless they are stationary. The cars pass me on the right. A cager could swerve back on a cyclist after passing them- I have had it happen to me as he passed me then immediately turned across my path into a driveway.

Hard out! I get that all the time, cars speed up and pull around you just to turn across you!




Try saying "they shouldn't have been there" and see how it helps you sleep at night.

....


An the other issues, cops have told me here there is no lane discipline in NZ on motorways. They are wrong as it is laid out in the raod code - although not clearly. Undertaking is legal in many situations (as it is in the UK when "keeping up with traffic flow", ie. heavy traffic with different lanes moving at different speeds). Bikes should be wary undertaking anywhere.
Having spent two weeks in France legally driving on the peages at 140kph, with much of the traffic doing well over 160kph, it was a joy as lane discipline was perfect. As sad as it makes me, Kiwi drivers could not handle highway speeds over 100kph because in general they lack an understanding of good driving protocols, awareness and responsibility.

And that last one starts with not assuming anything, but being responsible for all your choices.

Fuck'n a! It's in the road rules just not the testing that people go thru to get their licence so who gives a shit really! I can drive where I want now I have my yellow card, the rest must be rubbish info I don't need anyway or it would'a been in the test!

Also in Oz if your closing up on someone and they don't move over a quick flick of the beams will have then in the next lane and a sorry wave as you go by! Not like here where passing on the left (multi-lane rd) is the other option. I'm not as old as McJim yet so I can't slow down! hahaha! But really the speed differential is so great some drivers might be going as fast as they feel comfortable going while doing a whole lot less than the general flow.

[avgas]

would be much different if Usarka had been on a bike in the same incident.
Funny that as i ride differently to how i drive.
Sort of the whole bigger hammer solution i am conscious of. A big hammer does more damage that a little one. So a big car i am more conscious of driving that a little bike.
Not to mention blind spots (or the lack of on a bike).
Lets put things in perspective, that car that pulled out, replace it with a 5 year old girl/boy chasing a ball.
What was that about following distances again?
Drive/Ride and expect the unexpected.

[90s]

The reason the motorway protocols are not used here is that there are only about 200km MAX of real motorway in New Zealand (Don't go calling 2 lanes in each direction a motorway - that's a normal A class road not an M class!)

So it doesn't really matter. I'll bet at least 30% of Kiwis never see a motorway unless they go on holiday to a big country.

I don't really care about that 30%. I drive daily mainly on SH16 and SH1 - both 'real' motorways. And so do about 1 million other people.

I wish most of those million had a clue how to drive on the motorways they are on everyday.

And totally agree with other posts about behaviour towards cycles and overtaking. Moving into the middle to overtake is suicidal. I used to be able to push 70+ kph on a flat on my 1" tyred MTB and I had cars attempt to run me off the road when overtaking them, or blocking me into the middle for a laff.

And with regards to legality Albino is incorrect. Albino is right that cycles are bound by road rules (and it makes me really angry to see cycles going through red lights and riding two abreast - both illegal). But cycles must not (see landtransit) however ride alongside cars or other vehicles. This translates as:
i) cycles must slow to less than the speed of cars, ie. be overtaken, or;\
ii) overtake
But in these real-world conditions in fact traffic can be held to be taken as lanes moving at different speeds. Within this non-fast-flowing situation undertaking within a lane, ie. for a bike on the left, would be possible, or lanesplitting on the right. It is the same approach to interpretation of the law that makes lane-splitting for motorbikes technically legal if indicating.

- note I am not advocating cycles undertake! In fact as a life-long cyclist I would NOT advise it!

[Pancakes]

Bicycles also have a speed limit of 40k's. A cop tried to ticket me one day after I did about 60 between ped's crossing at queen & Victoria, split the opposing (but stopped at the lights) traffic and then hopped on and off the fottpath a few times. He was out to get me tho for being a smartass infront of him heaps. He asked for my name after explaining he saw all that and was gonna throw the book at me, I said "hell no!" and rode off. Not long after that cycle couriers with numbers on their bags sprouted up around AK! Wasn't just me tho, there were plenty far crazier! What an awesome job, ahh! back in the old days *drifts off to memory land

[90s]

Bicycles also have a speed limit of 40k's.

What???
That is not in the NZ Road Code for cyclists. Where has this come from?

Seems the entire Tour de France would therefore be speeding as the average speed for the event is above 40kph! (25mph).

[Pancakes]

What???
That is not in the NZ Road Code for cyclists. Where has this come from?

Seems the entire Tour de France would therefore be speeding as the average speed for the event is above 40kph! (25mph).

I never looked it up, the cop seemed to think he was gonna give me a ticket for it tho. TDF is on closed roads and I'm not sure they are too worried about the NZ road rules anyway!