She's gone.

[peasea]

The little girl isn't waiting; she's gone.

Nia is now dead, I hope her tormetors rot in hell but no doubt our sick 'justice' system will label her killers as 'victims of society' and slap them over their their collective wrists with wet bus tickets.

Every time something like this happens the public cries out for stiffer penalties and that call is described as a 'knee-jerk reaction'.

Bollocks.

The general public's reaction is justified and we need stiffer penalties; having warm cells with Sky TV, three meals and what have you is an inticement, not a deterrant.

What do you do with child abusers?

[sAsLEX]

What do you do with child abusers?

I see stuff has a poll on whether kiddy fiddlers should be sterilised......

[peasea]

I see stuff has a poll on whether kiddy fiddlers should be sterilised......

Frankly, I don't think that's enough.

[Colapop]

That is, once again, news that we should be ashamed of - as a country/society/community. How long do accept noises and commotion as none of our business? RIP baby... I hope the next life is better for you.

[007XX]

How we can tolerate this as a nation is beyond me...It makes so very angry!

We need to be made responsible again as a collective. Not going through life as if it doesn't matter. Before the times of cities, in small villages things were known and dealt with immediately, as the life's balance of the community depended on it.

Sleep peacefully little one...

[chanceyy]

RIP Nia - I could rant on about this but would it ever make a difference, when will we all accept responsbility in protecting those who can not protect themselves .. we just continue to turn away, bury our heads in the sand, pretend we did not see anything, while these kiddies suffer

we all are outraged when abuse likes this happens, but its happening more & more. we know the justice system is weak, but I am worried we will all become blase as a society & this will become the norm

If you make a child then you should be protecting him/her to the best of your ability

at least Nia is no longer suffering .. but she should have never suffered in the first place

[peasea]

How we can tolerate this as a nation is beyond me...It makes so very angry!

We need to be made responsible again as a collective. Not going through life as if it doesn't matter. Before the times of cities, in small villages things were known and dealt with immediately, as the life's balance of the community depended on it.

Sleep peacefully little one...


Quite right, and those little communities had stocks, gallows and burnouts that didn't involve boy racers.

What to do?

[peasea]

RIP Nia - I could rant on about this but would it ever make a difference, when will we all accept responsbility in protecting those who can not protect themselves .. we just continue to turn away, bury our heads in the sand, pretend we did not see anything, while these kiddies suffer

we all are outraged when abuse likes this happens, but its happening more & more. we know the justice system is weak, but I am worried we will all become blase as a society & this will become the norm

If you make a child then you should be protecting him/her to the best of your ability

at least Nia is no longer suffering .. but she should have never suffered in the first place

As long as judges dish out lame sentences we will always see this. How do we obtain justice from judges? They have the power to contain these foul, infinitely offensive and abusive, dysfunctional miscreants but little seems to be done. Why? Who are these judges? Why do they not administer what the general public see as fair sentences?

[007XX]

Quite right, and those little communities had stocks, gallows and burnouts that didn't involve boy racers.

What to do?

If I knew that, I'd be running for prime minister mate. All I know, is that as a mother, I wish the world was a better place for my kid.

I started taking ownership in my own way by doing the right thing, making sure my son grows to be a good man, and not add up to the morbid statistics you read about in the papers on a daily basis.

[MyGSXF]

:shit: OMG.. poor wee babe :weep:

The angels will look after you now sweetheart :yes:


RIP Nia xxx you are free

[peasea]

If I knew that, I'd be running for prime minister mate. All I know, is that as a mother, I wish the world was a better place for my kid.

I started taking ownership in my own way by doing the right thing, making sure my son grows to be a good man, and not add up to the morbid statistics you read about in the papers on a daily basis.

On ya.

I do the same. It doesn't answer the question tho'.

Hey, the world is a shitty place, make no bones about it but kids are off limits in any way shape or form. You feed them, house them and kick them into the mire when the time is right. You don't beat them up when they're three.

Let's say a stranger beats your kid up, chucks them in a drier and they die? Then what? You have ultimate control over the offender.....What's your sentence?

[Ghost_Bullet]

There is little justice in a pc world, the victim suffered, and the accused were victims of some other social injustice. I am for stiffer penalty's up to death for all those that commit crime beyound reasonable doubt judged guilty.

As the government trys to control people, parents (the liddle smack on the bum to bring into line) etc they in-turn turn inocent into criminals while the real criminals get off smack free.:angry: Is that justice or crime?

I guess much debate will and could be had about the system that does nothing forseable to the future of the New Zealand citizen. Apart from making the future more scarey and unknown of what will become. And how little input we may have in bringing up our own due to the few that fuck up the upbringing of the minority, or cause death to those.

I hope what I write makes some sense above...

[peasea]

There is little justice in a pc world, the victim suffered, and the accused were victims of some other social injustice. I am for stiffer penalty's up to death for all those that commit crime beyound reasonable doubt judged guilty.

As the government trys to control people, parents (the liddle smack on the bum to bring into line) etc they in-turn turn inocent into criminals while the real criminals get off smack free.:angry: Is that justice or crime?

I guess much debate will and could be had about the system that does nothing forseable to the future of the New Zealand citizen. Apart from making the future more scarey and unknown of what will become. And how little input we may have in bringing up our own due to the few that fuck up the upbringing of the minority, or cause death to those.

I hope what I write makes some sense above...

I get your drift, albeit with challenging prose, but again the issue of 'who is the victim?' is raised. The stone thrower will always be the agressor, regardless of their background, and to throw stones at a three year-old (so to speak) is unforgivable./

So what is your sentence?

[Disco Dan]

Part of my job is 'supervising' child sex offenders and rehabilitating them back into the community. They are prescribed medication to lower their lebido, but that still does not stop a simple Farmers mail flyer 'setting them off'. The system is very prehistoric and needs a lot of work. What you all saw on the news... tip of the ice berg, let me assure you. I could tell you stories about how one client used to 'have his way' with dead domestic cats... well they wernt dead when he got them... and others that actually offended while under professional care - we are talking 2:1 staffing and the client still managed to offend... sexually... a young girl in a public toilet block.

There is a hell of a lot more to it that what you all saw on the news... its going on right now. Every day.

[007XX]

On ya.

I do the same. It doesn't answer the question tho'.

Hey, the world is a shitty place, make no bones about it but kids are off limits in any way shape or form. You feed them, house them and kick them into the mire when the time is right. You don't beat them up when they're three.

Let's say a stranger beats your kid up, chucks them in a drier and they die? Then what? You have ultimate control over the offender.....What's your sentence?

Death, pure and simple...and to hell with this PC BS...

I have already made that point clear on the previous thread about "death penaltie".

You touch my baby, you die. Very straight forward.

[peasea]

Part of my job is 'supervising' child sex offenders and rehabilitating them back into the community. They are prescribed medication to lower their lebido, but that still does not stop a simple Farmers mail flyer 'setting them off'. The system is very prehistoric and needs a lot of work. What you all saw on the news... tip of the ice berg, let me assure you. I could tell you stories about how one client used to 'have his way' with dead domestic cats... well they wernt dead when he got them... and others that actually offended while under professional care - we are talking 2:1 staffing and the client still managed to offend... sexually... a young girl in a public toilet block.

There is a hell of a lot more to it that what you all saw on the news... its going on right now. Every day.

You're scaring me.....

Why can't we agree on a sentence?
One that includes/starts with/ culminates in DEATH?

These freaks are NOT normal, why do we waste your time and OUR money on them? Shoot them. Society has become too 'touchy-feely' and wanting to save all the "backward-arse-country-fucks" that really should be put down.

Again, I'll ask; If that was your kid, what's your sentence???

[Ghost_Bullet]

So what is your sentence?


Sentance, a crime beyound doubt would be death... this will be the only way to get the message of zero tollerance.
Sure you might be able to put them in jail and reabilitate... what % works though????
Prison sure is not a nice place... but it is not unbearable, and certainly is no where as near harsh enough.
Would it stop others that may commit the same crime???? very hard question... there are plenty of people beyound caring about any kind of justice... getting caught maybe there glory and recognition.

The world is overcrowded by the human disease as it is... criminals of the worst kind just take up valuable space.

[peasea]

Sentance, a crime beyound doubt would be death... this will be the only way to get the message of zero tollerance.
Sure you might be able to put them in jail and reabilitate... what % works though????
Prison sure is not a nice place... but it is not unbearable, and certainly is no where as near harsh enough.
Would it stop others that may commit the same crime???? very hard question... there are plenty of people beyound caring about any kind of justice... getting caught maybe there glory and recognition.

The world is overcrowded by the human disease as it is... criminals of the worst kind just take up valuable space.

Good points.
So many thugs these days get their jollies just by being banged up, heroes to their mates etc etc.

Shoot them and the problem no longer exists. You don't have to feed them look after them or deal with their antics.

Re-habilitate? What a crock.

[Disco Dan]

You're scaring me.....

Why can't we agree on a sentence?
One that includes/starts with/ culminates in DEATH?

These freaks are NOT normal, why do we waste your time and OUR money on them? Shoot them. Society has become too 'touchy-feely' and wanting to save all the "backward-arse-country-fucks" that really should be put down.

Again, I'll ask; If that was your kid, what's your sentence???

As I am sure you are aware, as the worlds population increases the extremes become more extreme. A person touching a 17 year old girl is no longer the extreme today, now their touching babies. Same goes for any aspect of society, in this case abuse. The line will keep moving. As laws toughen, a larger percentage of the population is affected. ...you cant have the population of the majority increase without the minority increasing too... the scary thing is 99% of these horrific acts never actually make it to the news.

[peasea]

Death, pure and simple...and to hell with this PC BS...

I have already made that point clear on the previous thread about "death penaltie".

You touch my baby, you die. Very straight forward.


We should meet, just so I can pin a medal of good community spirit on you.:rockon:

[Ghost_Bullet]

You don't have to feed them look after them or deal with their antics.

.

It costs around 60K to keep a crim in a cell, per year.. damn most of us would not even earn that much.....

[007XX]

We should meet, just so I can pin a medal of good community spirit on you.:rockon:

Thanks for the thought (re: medal), but I'll be happy to just meet and have a drink...anyday!

[peasea]

It costs around 60K to keep a crim in a cell, per year.. damn most of us would not even earn that much.....

My point exactly; a .303 bullet runs at about a buck and half I'd guess. Call me a red-neck but I still say if you wipe out a child abuser you not only save a child but you probably save the one after that too.

[NZsarge]

............:weep:

[jazbug5]

Poor wee thing. At least she is at peace now; I hope her siblings will be better protected from now on.

As for death penalties for paedophiles, as much as I sympathise with that on several levels, have you considered that they may resort to killing a child far sooner if they think its testimony might lead to a conviction - and that the consequence could be death?

Maybe we could send them to work camps for the rest of their 'naturals', though... somewhere with plenty of biting insects, for example.

[scumdog]

My point exactly; a .303 bullet runs at about a buck and half I'd guess. Call me a red-neck but I still say if you wipe out a child abuser you not only save a child but you probably save the one after that too.


A .22 will do the job even cheaper.

Or you could line them up in threes and use the one .303 for all three at once...

[scumdog]

As long as judges dish out lame sentences we will always see this. How do we obtain justice from judges? They have the power to contain these foul, infinitely offensive and abusive, dysfunctional miscreants but little seems to be done. Why? Who are these judges? Why do they not administer what the general public see as fair sentences?

You said a mouthful there bro......soft judges dishing lame sentences.:yes:

[Mrs Busa Pete]

RIP little one free from pain and more suffering. May the angles take care of you now.



This just broke my heart last night when this came out in the news. If this had been my child it would be the death sentence because i would rather go to jail than let those bastards breath another breath. But as it was not i have always thought that need to be stuck on one of the islands where they can fiddle and beat each other up for the rest of there natural with no justice for them when it happens to them.

I was sent an email the other day and these bastards got of murder and and got manslaughter fu-ken beats me and then where only given eight years and will be out in 4. These pictures are desterbing they are x rate

It is clear that our children are being let down by the legal system,
this is once again highlighted by the ridiculous sentences handed down
by
the High Court jury who found 32-year-old Maine Ngati and her partner
Teusila Faasisla not guilty of murder, but guilty of manslaughter, after
the child was beaten to death. Each was sentenced to eight-and-a-half
years in jail for the manslaughter and will be up for parole in four
years. These monsters beat this defenceless 3 year old boy for days with
an aluminium baseball bat and oar. His entire body was covered in
bruises
and his blood was found in every inch of the house.

[oldrider]

Let's say a stranger beats your kid up, chucks them in a drier and they die? Then what? You have ultimate control over the offender.....What's your sentence?

Ultimately, the most powerful is still, forgiveness, love and example!

Just to reinforce that to the rest of the community, I would kill and burn the offender!

Then I would practice, forgiveness, love and example, with those that remain!

Problem sorted, example illustrated, move right along!

If you get a new problem, eliminate the perpetrator!

(In gardening it's called weeding!)

Resort back to, forgiveness, love and example! :yes: John.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Ngatikaura Ngati was removed from a loving home and sent to live with
abusive birth parents.
Each night Ngatikaura Ngati would climb into bed and tell
his adoptive mum Kura and dad Finau that he loved them before clasping
his little hands together in prayer.He'd then fall asleep in a bedroom
full of family photos and toys, with pictures of Winnie the Pooh and
Piglet keeping watch over him from the door.During the day the
3-year-old would play his ukulele, sing on his karaoke machine or enjoy
trips to the beach or zoo with Kura and Finau who had cared for him
since he was one month old.He was a happy child. A child who was
clearly
loved.But three weeks after his third birthday everything changed in
Ngati's life.His birth mother Maine Ngati decided she wanted him back
from her cousin Kura so Ngati was plucked from the only home he'd ever
known.The South Auckland toddler was thrown into a completely
unfamiliar
environment. A new home in Otara where there were four other children,
including a newborn baby. A home where there was a mattress on the
floor
but no blankets, and no Winnie the Pooh on the door.Ngati's new family
spoke English. He had grown up speaking only Tongan so he struggled to
communicate with his siblings and parents.The toilet-trained toddler
suddenly started regularly wetting his pants and developed a weeping
ulcer the size of a man's hand on his bottom. His birth mother sought no
medical treatment, instead covering it with a sanitary pad.Ngati was
quickly transformed from a happy and confident boy to a terrified child
who would mess his pants then try to throw the evidence out of the
window to avoid the beating that would always follow.Three short months
after he moved in with his birth mother he was dead.Pathologists have
argued in court over the exact cause of his death, but there was no
dispute he was covered in injuries.Graphic photographs taken during
Ngati's post-mortem showed a body that had suffered from repeated
beatings. He had so many bruises that the officer investigating his
death stopped counting after 50.This week, Ngati's birth mother Maine
Ngati and stepfather Teusila Fa'asisila were found guilty of inflicting
those injuries. Guilty of Ngati's manslaughter.A jury at the High Court
in Auckland heard how Maine, 32, would punch Ngati in the face, strike
him with a stick and whack him around the head when he was naughty.
His 27-year-old stepfather beat him with whatever weapon was lying
nearby.Being naughty wasn't hard. Sometimes it was messing his pants.
Other times Ngati did not move fast enough or play a game the right way.
Once he didn't say "yes Mum". Another time he didn't jump like a frog.On
January 30 last year, the first of what would be the last series of
beatings in Ngati's short life occurred at 10am after he did a "kaka"
(faeces) in his pants.Maine later told police she was so angry she
picked up a stick and beat Ngati all over his body - except his head.
There she used her hand.After the beating Maine put her son in the
bath.Police say it would have been obvious at this point that Ngati was
injured and in pain. His left arm was so badly damaged that it had
swollen to twice its normal size. But instead of seeking help for her
son, Maine put him to bed.Later in the day, Ngati awoke on his mattress
on the floor needing to go to the toilet. He tried to get up but was
unable to due to his injuries, in particular his arm which had no
strength.Unable to hold on Ngati wet his pants - triggering yet another
beating from his mother when she found him.By that night, when his
stepfather showered him, police say it would have been impossible not to
have seen all of Ngati's injuries."He was beaten black and blue all over,"
said investigating officer Detective Senior Sergeant Richard
Middleton."This is as bad as anything I have seen on a child or any
human. The only thing that was keeping him alive [at that stage] was his
young heart."But Ngati's young heart could only take so much and the
following morning he received his final beatings - one from his mother
and later one from his stepfather.Fa'asisila told police that Ngati had
"kaka'ed" himself that morning.To discipline him he picked up a stick,
made the boy stand with his hands on the wall and lift up his feet. He
then he beat the soles of his feet.Police didn't believe this version of
events, saying Ngati's soles were the only part of his body that weren't
bruised.They, and the jury, believed the account other children gave
them - the one in which Fa'asisila picked up a baseball bat and beat him
with it all over his body, except his head.Physical evidence also
supported this view. When police searched the Otara home they found a
bat tucked out of site. It was covered in Ngati's blood. The child's
blood was also found throughout the house.In two rooms - the living area
and Ngati's bedroom - the blood had splattered so high it hit the ceiling.
That was impact splatter, splatter caused by an object hitting Ngati
while he was already bleeding.On the floors and walls the blood had been
diluted - a sign police say that the parents had tried to wash the evidence
away.The baseball bat beating occurred in the morning while Maine was
out at a job interview.During the afternoon, after Maine had returned,
Ngati's condition deteriorated to the point that he was drifting in and out of consciousness. At times he stopped breathing.At one point, while Maine performed CPR,
Fa'asisila suggested calling for an ambulance, but she said no because
"then they will find out".At 5pm Fa'asisila went to get his uncle who
lived nearby. The uncle arrived and told the couple to call an ambulance
immediately.On the phone, Maine told the St John operator she had beaten
Ngati with a stick but showed more concern for herself than her dying
son."She said, 'are you going to call the police?'," said Mr Middleton.
"Even at that stage she was still more worried about what was going to
happen to her than what happened to Ngati."Ngati was rushed to
Middlemore Hospital, then transferred to Starship where his adoptive
mother Kura Kaufusi stayed with him till he died. .

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Before he took his
final breath Kura leaned over his swollen and distorted body and
whispered in his ear for him to "go in peace".Kura and her husband
Finau
are still struggling with his violent death."I feel like my heart's
gone. My heart's been ripped out of my body because he was our heart,"
said Kura. "I thought I would get over it by now but I can't."Finau
spends a lot of time at Ngati's tiny grave, keeping it clean and tidy;
Kura often watches videos the couple took of his first steps, his
birthdays, all his important milestones.The couple were unable to have
children and didn't hesitate to take Ngati in when Maine Ngati asked
them to have him when he was a baby."He was a happy little boy. He
called us Mummy and Daddy. He didn't know anyone else," said Kura.Then
in November
2005 Maine wanted Ngati back despite having very little to do with him
for three years.Police were told Maine Ngati was claiming a benefit for
more children than were living with her and it was the threat of being
caught out
- and revenge against her cousin with whom she'd fought - that led to
her seeking custody."There's nothing that I have seen that showed she
wanted Ngati back for reasons of love," said Mr Middleton.A distraught
Kura fought for custody of Ngati. She now regrets doing it the "right
way"
through lawyers and wishes she had instead whisked Ngati away to a
place
her cousin would have never found him.Maybe, she says, he would have
still be alive that way."I was trying to do it the right way but as a
result he was dead within nine weeks."Kura said she tried to visit
Ngati
at his new home but no one would ever answer the door. She worries he
never knew why he suddenly had to change houses and had no contact with
the only people he'd ever known as Mum and Dad."I will always feel
guilty because in his mind when he was getting bashed he was probably
saying 'where's my mum, where's my dad?'."Mr Middleton said it was not
clear how often Ngati was beaten but it "certainly escalated" in the
last two days of his life.He believes the toileting problem was
evidence
of the boy's state of mind while in Maine and Fa'asisila's care."My
thoughts on that are that they beat him so much that he lost confidence
and he wet and pooed himself because he got so many beatings."Mr
Middleton said Ngati's final hours would have been excruciating.When
the
pathologist cut open his swollen arm they found all the tissue had died
from the beating he had suffered. There was a subdural haematoma which
was 5-10 days old as well as fresher trauma to the head from the recent
beatings.There was also an unusual patterning with bits of skin missing
from his arm, wrist and inside thigh - those injuries are from a weapon
police have been unable to find. They say Maine Ngati and Fa'asisila
got
rid of the weapon - more evidence that the couple knew what they were
doing was wrong.Kura and her husband did not see Ngati after he moved
and it is not clear if other relatives were aware of the abuse the
little boy suffered - they certainly denied any knowledge of it while
giving evidence in court. Ngati's siblings testified and are now being
cared for by others.
Mr Middleton said it was possible the beatings never occurred in the
presence of other adults, but it was hard to believe no one noticed
anything wrong.On the morning of Ngati's death one of Maine's relative
said she gave him a high-five during breakfast and everything seemed
fine.
This would have been after he suffered two serious beatings the day
before, one so bad that he was unable to use his arm."It's impossible
to
think he was 'quite happy' the morning he died."Mr Middleton believes
it
may have been a case of other relatives "wilfully ignoring" what was
going on. "The other family members at best didn't want to know."In
some
families abuse of this nature is commonplace and every now and then it
turns to tragedy as it has in this case. The answer is never hit your
kids."Kura agrees and says it sickens her to see what happened to
Ngati.
She no longer considers Maine a relative and says the only blessing in
Ngati's death is that he is now "away from the devils.""I'm glad they
got guilty . That will be justice for my little man."* Maine and
Fa'asisila were charged with murder. They were found not guilty of
murder but guilty of manslaughter. They were also found guilty of a
separate charge of manslaughter for failing to provide medical care
which could have saved Ngati's life and for wilful ill-treatment of a
child. They will be sentenced next month

It is clear that our children are being let down by the legal system,
this is once again highlighted by the ridiculous sentences handed down
by
the High Court jury who found 32-year-old Maine Ngati and her partner
Teusila Faasisla not guilty of murder, but guilty of manslaughter, after
the child was beaten to death. Each was sentenced to eight-and-a-half
years in jail for the manslaughter and will be up for parole in four
years. These monsters beat this defenceless 3 year old boy for days with
an aluminium baseball bat and oar. His entire body was covered in
bruises
and his blood was found in every inch of the house.

Not only is this case preposterous but it sets precedent for cases to
come. I believe each and every one of us should have a say and if we
stand
together on this we will make a difference. I refuse to stand by and let
these injustices go by again and again. This petition demands more
severe
punishments are to be handed out to those who abuse our children!

I do have the petion if any one wants to sign it.

[spudchucka]

It costs around 60K to keep a crim in a cell, per year.. damn most of us would not even earn that much.....

The latest figures are more like 92K.

[chanceyy]

Not only is this case preposterous but it sets precedent for cases to
come. I believe each and every one of us should have a say and if we
stand
together on this we will make a difference. I refuse to stand by and let
these injustices go by again and again. This petition demands more
severe
punishments are to be handed out to those who abuse our children!

I do have the petion if any one wants to sign it.

that is beyond horrific .. I will sign it .. can you set it up online so we can pass it to others .. plz

[Grahameeboy]

I still struggle with advocating the death penalty...sorry.

But these guys should have been put away for life. How can the Judge say 'Manslaughter'.........I always thought this was where there were mitigating circumstances but these guys had no mitigating circumstances so it was pre-meditated so 'murder'.....there is no way they could not have thought the kid may not die.........

The problem with the death penalty is that an innocent person's life may be extinguished. At least with jail they have a chance to fight their case as has been the case recently.

I watched a doco about a black guy in America on death row.....even the guards thought he was innocent....a week after he was excecuted the a witness, ignored by Police, prooved he was not guilty.

I don't believe in an eye for an eye as you know....however, life in prison for taking someones life is the way to go............they will wish they had died when they are in prison which is probably a better punishment that death..........

Agree crims enjoy the prison life..only have to watch those Worlds Hardest Prisons to see that......some of them could pay for their stay in prison...

[Paul in NZ]

that is beyond horrific .. I will sign it .. can you set it up online so we can pass it to others .. plz

I'll bloody sign it and lead the damn lynch mob to parliament as well...

Most motorcyclists have a great joy of life and love kids - the fundemental values of this country. Screw this crap - its got to stop, if caught - these people don't belong here, their citizenship should be revoked and they should be expelled from our borders if we don't have the guts to do it properly.

[janno]

I firmly believe that the incidence of child abuse and murder has not increased at all over the last couple of hundred years on a pro rata basis. It's just much harder to hide.

There is a portion of the human race that has always done this sort of thing and probably always will, so I fail to see what rehab will do to solve it. To me it seems to be a low socio economic problem, but of course that is my opinion from media reports. Someone working in the field like Disco Dan could probably put me right on this one.

I wonder what is different about our society from, say, Denmark, which to my knowledge doesn't have a big child abuse and murder problem? Is is purely a higer general education and income level?

My gut instinct is to lock the fuckers up (a la russian gulag style) and not let them out. To hell with rehab. And no entertainment. Let them be alone with their thoughts 24/7. I don't understand why prisoners should have a better life behind bars than out.

[Grahameeboy]

Sounds like as a Country we are still evolving

Interpreting 'Social wellbeing in New Zealand relative to the OECD'
Figure CO2 shows wellbeing in New Zealand relative to the OECD against 23 indicators. The circle represents the OECD median score for each indicator, and the spokes represent outcomes in New Zealand relative to the OECD median. The irregular shape outside of the median circle represents outcomes for the 75th percentile. Where a spoke falls below the circle, New Zealand is in the bottom half of the OECD. Where the spoke falls outside of the circle, outcomes in New Zealand are better than the OECD median. Where a spoke falls past the irregular shape, New Zealand makes it to the top quarter of the OECD.

SOME CAUTION IS REQUIRED WITH THIS DATA: International comparisons are frequently difficult to interpret because of differences between countries in methods used to collect, classify and record social data. We only show 23 of the 43 indicators used in The Social Report 2004 in the graph, because comparable international data is not available for each indicator.


New Zealand makes it into the top half of the OECD for roughly two thirds of the 23 indicators for which internationally comparable data is available.

New Zealand performs well in the area of civil and political rights. We consistently have one of the lowest levels of perceived corruption across the OECD, and are in the top half of the OECD both for the percentage of women in parliament, and for voter turnout.

New Zealand also performs strongly for both our relatively high employment rates and relatively low unemployment rates. New Zealand's performance has improved markedly in this area since the early 1990s.

New Zealand appears to sit around the middle of the OECD for our performance in the area of health. Life expectancy in New Zealand is similar to the median life expectancy in the OECD, though there is a relatively narrow range of outcomes across the OECD for this indicator. Our position declined over the 1970s and 1980s but improved in the 1990s. We perform well for the prevalence of cigarette smoking but have relatively high suicide rates. We are the sixth worst performer for obesity rates.

In the area of knowledge and skills, New Zealand is at or near the OECD median for adult literacy, for participation rates in tertiary education for the 20-29 year age group, and for the proportion of adults with tertiary qualifications. None of the measures used in this report enable us to look at the relative performance of children and young people. However results from the OECD's PISA study, which is designed to look at trends in student achievement across time in 32 countries, ranked New Zealand 15 year-olds near the top for their overall performance.93 However, compared to other countries, New Zealand has greater differences between the best and poorest achieving students - a pattern also reflected in other international studies of school students.

New Zealand sits below the middle ranked OECD country for Gross Domestic Product (GDP) per capita. We also do poorly for income inequality. However, we are slightly better than the OECD median in relation to the proportion of the population on low incomes.

We do not have enough comparable international data in the safety domain to make any strong conclusions. However, there is some evidence to suggest that New Zealand has relatively high rates of child maltreatment deaths, though there is some concern about the comparability of such data across countries.
Lastly, New Zealanders rate themselves highly in terms of life satisfaction and overall happiness. Out of 25 OECD countries, New Zealand has the fifth highest percentage of the population who are satisfied with their lives.

[Mom]

I am going with Disco Dans spin on this. I used to foster kids, and can assure you all that most of the really bad abuse never ever comes to the notice of the general public. In my experience this is a cross cultural problem, not just a maori or island issue.

One case for me really stands out in my memory, 3 little girls, 3 different fathers, although not tested, it can be assumed that they were close relatives of the mother. The grandmother of these girls had just had her similar aged twins taken from her due to neglect/abuse. I could not understand how any mother could treat her children the way these poor kids had been treated.

I had to take the girls for a supervised access visit with their mother, was not looking forward to meeting her as I was struggling with my own emotions around what I wanted to do to her! I was so shocked when I saw her, as I discovered that she should have been in care too!

The powers that be had been involved with this family for many years, all the help available was provided to them, but the bottom line was in testing to ascertain whether there was a chance of returning the kids to the family, this mother could not demonstrate how to construct a peanut butter sandwich, or explain how to cross the road safely!!

Generational abuse and neglect. So heart breaking! These girls were all permanently placed with new families, they had to be separated as collectively their needs were too great for one family to cope with.

I dont know the answers, but I am telling you that this sort of thing is never a once off, this is normal and acceptable in some sub-cultures in fine NZ.

[Dooly]

The winners no doubt will be the defence lawyers, who will probably be some of the best, at our cost.

The animals who did the crime will be looked after by all the support services and given the best of everything.

No doubt when it makes the telly, their court appearances, the family of the animals will be shown attacking the photographers, swearing at them etc etc etc etc, as we've seen it all before.

The usual PC arguments will be presented about their poor lifestyles being a reflection of modern society and how its not really their fault blah blah blah.

Weak sentencing will occurr.

Next horrific high profile kid killing case please........repeat again, again, again...

Death is the only answer to these vermin, the worst death the better, and preferably the victim's family/s offered the chance to deliver the punishment of their choice.
Unless of course the family is the one who did the crime!
Then I'll do it!

[Mrs Busa Pete]

that is beyond horrific .. I will sign it .. can you set it up online so we can pass it to others .. plz

I don't know how to do that can someone tell.
Thanks Wendy

[SlashWylde]

What do you do with child abusers?

What you do with child abusers who are guilty of committing a crime is really only a small part of the problem. It appeases the communities need to see justice done and punishment metered out, but it does nothing to change the culture of the society we live in, and it certainly won't act as a disincentive to the sorts of people who commit these crimes.

The most that can be done is to permanently remove them from society at the lowest cost to the taxpayer. The death penalty, whilst attractive and quick, is not a realistic solution as there will always be innocent people falsely convicted. A better system is for the guilty to be locked away on a prison farm somewhere where the inmates have to work to grow their own food, build their own shelter and fashion their own textiles.

These people are often of very limited intelligence. Rational thought and the consequences of their actions don't enter into their minds, so the notion of justice and penalties for their actions won't stop them or even slow them down. Mind altering substances also often play a part in the abuse.

Our society is still very young - less than 200 years old. We have had to grow up very quickly from a wild frontier mentality of the first settlers through huge technological and social changes. There are still many places in NZ where people think they can do as they please and that the law dosen't apply to them.

In many ways NZ is like an out of control teenager. Wild, angry, addicted to failure and substance abuse, but without really knowing why or attempting to find out why and do something about it. This attitude is perpetuated by a group of people who are too stupid and lazy to take responsibility for their own lives and those they foolishly bring into this world. Many of these people abuse a beneficiary system which is lax enough to be prone to abuse.

Cases like Nia are the symptom. Until the root causes of this cycle of behaviour are addressed, and the cycle broken, successive generations of children will continue to be born to 'parents' who don't want them but will abuse them, neglect them and effectively raise them to be like themselves, ready to breed a new crop of failure into this world.

[BarBender]

Part of my job is 'supervising' child sex offenders and rehabilitating them back into the community. They are prescribed medication to lower their lebido, but that still does not stop a simple Farmers mail flyer 'setting them off'. The system is very prehistoric and needs a lot of work. What you all saw on the news... tip of the ice berg, let me assure you. I could tell you stories about how one client used to 'have his way' with dead domestic cats... well they wernt dead when he got them... and others that actually offended while under professional care - we are talking 2:1 staffing and the client still managed to offend... sexually a young girl in a public toilet block.
There is a hell of a lot more to it that what you all saw on the news... its going on right now. Every day.


I am going with Disco Dans spin on this. I used to foster kids, and can assure you all that most of the really bad abuse never ever comes to the notice of the general public. In my experience this is a cross cultural problem, not just a maori or island issue.
Generational abuse and neglect. So heart breaking!
I dont know the answers, but I am telling you that this sort of thing is never a once off, this is normal and acceptable in some sub-cultures in fine NZ.

I dont know the answers either.

But I do know that I admire you both - and others out there -for their work and contribution made to help the few move the ambulance to the top of the cliff. Its tough...emotionally draining and the majority of the time you feel like you're on your own.
You give - they (because of their circumstances) take.

My post is in relation to sexual offenders, so a slightly different slant on the Nia case. But I'd suggest there are some similarities. I sat on the board of a non-for profit for 5 years that dealt specifically with the rehabilitation of sex offenders. It was an emotionally conflicting yet rewarding time in my life. It was difficult from a governance perspective because the organisation operated in a space where public and media perception rules and where that public perception invariably influences legislation and reinforces that perception over again. Emotionally - it wasn't a Starship or a Cancer Society where the heart strings start playing when the branding hits you on TV.

What was rewarding about the organisation was that each of the 30 staff was committed to the cause that 100 percent rehabilitation was a very real and proven outcome. Recidivism rates dropped by to almost 90 percent through specialist therapy which included families and monitored follow up.
There was never any problem filling the programmes with clients. It even got to the stage where separate programmes had to be set up in Whangarei and Hamilton to help clients identified in the far North and central North Island

What very few people realise is 85 percent of the clients who attended these programmes were children and teenages. Children as young as 4 through to kids 18 years who had been identified as sexual offenders. Tip of the iceberg indeed.
The success rates of adult programmes were dependent largely on strong and positive support post programme. But as Dan has pointed out its difficult to do with limited resourcing and when the local police and school find out you are...
I dont condone what offenders or abusers do. Like some of you - I've seen little people with their souls ripped out of them. But I would like to show you a little more of what’s under the waterline and say that not every offender needs to get shot.
I have seen too many offenders get a second chance and come through blazing and live a deserved life - Especially kids and teenages who are too young and who don’t know any more that what they know to realise what they do and effect on others.

Maybe part of the solution in dealing with the issue of abuse needs to start with our young people...

[Mrs Busa Pete]

The most that can be done is to permanently remove them from society at the lowest cost to the taxpayer. The death penalty, whilst attractive and quick, is not a realistic solution as there will always be innocent people falsely convicted. A better system is for the guilty to be locked away on a prison farm somewhere where the inmates have to work to grow their own food, build their own shelter and fashion their own textiles.

These people are often of very limited intelligence. Rational thought and the consequences of their actions don't enter into their minds, so the notion of justice and penalties for their actions won't stop them or even slow them down. Mind altering substances also often play a part in the abuse.


Could not agree more with this post.

[yungatart]

Rest in peace little one, because you certainly didn't live that way.

If you want to help, then keep a friendly eye on your neighbours kids, your neices and nephews, your friends kids. Step in when it is needed!
Our babies need protecting from scum like this.
Make sure you stand up and are counted!

[Mom]

What very few people realise is 85 percent of the clients who attended these programmes were children and teenages. Children as young as 4 through to kids 18 years who had been identified as sexual offenders. Tip of the iceberg indeed.

Yes and that would have to be one of the hardest things I had to learn to accept, when I had a family with me for 15months. 3 beautiful kids, whose mother had tried to gas them in her car, ages 10, 8 & 7. The eldest boy played the you touch this or I will do this to you, oh and dont tell your mother else I will do THIS to you. Hardest thing I ever did was not to kill him when my daughter told me. He cried when he left my home, he was a sweet little boy who did not have the benefit of a "normal" (whatever that is) childhood.

I gave away caregiving when I became increasingly frustrated and angry with a system that did not have the resources to deal with problems identified in the children I cared for.

[scumdog]

The latest figures are more like 92K.

A hit-man would be cheaper in the long run...

[yungatart]

Neither revenge, nor punishment of the offender/s do anything to protect kids!

[Street Gerbil]

No one expressed it better than Maymonides: "Merciful to the wicked is wicked to the merciful". Some crimes must carry a mandatory death sentence. Full stop.

[scumdog]

Neither revenge, nor punishment of the offender/s do anything to protect kids!

Stops reoffending - something NZ seems to have a quite abysmal record of.

[yungatart]

Stops reoffending - something NZ seems to have a quite abysmal record of.

Yeah, it stops that person offending again, (while they are in prison) but it does nothing to prevent anyone else doing the same thing, or worse!

[Paul in NZ]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4153131a11.html

sigh - if its not reported or does not make the media then thats a start. Get the media into it, DEMAND it's reported like drink driving, Don't give the fuckers a place to hide - if it runs in families - name and shame - place the cunts in all those unused 'facilities' the mentally unwell used to inhabit and don't let em out until they see the error of their ways and have the skills to cope in the real world...

[devnull]

I'm with 007XX on this - touch my child, you die.

No ifs or buts. And it won't be quick or pleasant.

[judecatmad]

As long as judges dish out lame sentences we will always see this

Heartbreaking, what she suffered through. She's better off where she is. Poor wee baby.

What I just don't get, tho, is when people say it's caused by the short sentences handed out. Surely anyone with normal morals and half an ounce of decency wouldn't do anything like that, regardless of the penalties? Think about murder - is it the prison sentence that deters you from committing the crime? I very much doubt it. What holds you back is your sense of right and wrong.

I agree that we need to be harsher with our penalties (even if just to make ourselves feel better), but I don't think that having longer sentences, or even the death penalty, will deter these freaks.

I don't, however, know how on earth you instill a sense of right/wrong and honest-to-goodness decency in these sorts. Families like these are in such a spiral of violence and abuse - the parents abuse the kids and other adults so it's all the kids learn, so they in turn become the abusers.....

I seriously feel that the only way to break the cycle is to deny individuals with a history of violence (especially domestic), or of sexual predation, the right to breed. And the only way to do that (in the absence of the death penalty) is to sterilise them. I'm not saying that should be the only penalty, but it should certainly be part of the programme. We should also seriously consider applying the same rules to those who stand by and let child abuse happen. And the right to silence? Bollocks.

[devnull]

The risk factors are already widely known - single parenthood, low maternal education, low maternal age at birth, poor housing, large family size, and parental drug or alcohol abuse. The incidence of abuse rises sharply with poverty. Of course, that's not to say that everyone that falls in one of these categories abuses kids, these are only risk indicators, not predictors.

But the whole anti-smacking propaganda just managed to muddy the waters... Spain has the lowest child abuse rate in the world (0.1 per 100000). No anti-smacking laws there, but strong family and community ties.

Until we get a govt that works to strengthen instead of undermine communities, it'll be hard to change. Even then, I think it'll be a long road to recovery.
Overhauling sentences, having the legal system protect the victim instead of the offender (and holds offenders accountable), and creating a child welfare system that actually works to support and strengthen families would all go a long way to improving the country...

Failing that, the film "Boondock Saints" should become a training guide, rather than entertainment

[sunhuntin]

Rest in peace little one, because you certainly didn't live that way.

If you want to help, then keep a friendly eye on your neighbours kids, your neices and nephews, your friends kids. Step in when it is needed!
Our babies need protecting from scum like this.
Make sure you stand up and are counted!

id like to agree with this, but cant.

my brother and his root have just another baby. [that makes 2 for him, and 4 for her] since their first was born, she has often disappeared, for days on end. no one can track her down. so, he is left looking after 3 kids, missing work, or forcing one of my parents to miss work so they can babysit. the kids, while they arent abused, they are neglected and not fed right. we have called cyfs so many times, and the cops. none of them want to listen.

last time we had the young girl, we had her for almost 3 days. in those days, she had one bowel movement, and it hurt her bad. shes only 18 months old, and was in tears trying to rid her body of it. and the horse shit thing is, they knew she was constipated, and blamed the country water! WTF??

the youngest was born yesterday, and shes vanished already, leaving him with a list of what to buy for her. clothes for bubs, maternity pads and a bra [shes had 4 kids... did she not have a bra from previously?] pisses me right off, that my mother is being depended on to clothe kids that arent even related to her! [and shes stupid, because she permits and almost encourages it!]

the agencies that are meant to help and look after our kids, dont want to know until the kids are 6 feet under. as i say, mum has called cyfs heaps, cos she just up and leaves without warning.

it is sad that nia is dead, but she is one of the lucky ones. she doesnt have to grow up with it, and she cant do the same to her kids.

[soundbeltfarm]

reading that story just makes me want to drive and find one of those mongrels and slowly but surely kill them.
it would not stop others from offending as you say but it would fucking stop the mongrel i would've just killed from re offending.
after i read that report from busa pete i think it was.
i thought about the times i get pissed off about minute things or get worried if some one hasn't paid their bills to me.
when its just a fuckin flash in the pan with what these kids go through.
heres me worried about some one paying me for a job done and heres a poor innocent kid shitting about the beating they will get for sweet fuck all.
brings a new perspective to me.
also why do we always see ads on tv for saving kids overseas when we dont for helping our own countryies kids.?
is it because no one wants to advertise for these kids because we dont want to admit some of this country are fucking useless maggoty parents and care givers?
sorry about my spelling but now i just feel like findin some kid beater and gettin myself a murder charge , hang on with this coiuntry justice system i'd get a manslaughter charger and be out in six months . this country has a bunch of soft jelly babies running it with their heads all stuck up their fuckin arses smeelin roses.
Rant over and me out.

[Goblin]

As long as judges dish out lame sentences we will always see this. How do we obtain justice from judges? They have the power to contain these foul, infinitely offensive and abusive, dysfunctional miscreants but little seems to be done. Why? Who are these judges? Why do they not administer what the general public see as fair sentences?Our judges are all former lawyers so they love this kind of thing....helps to keep their money-go-round spinning.






Rest in Peace Nia.

[TonyB]

That poor little kid- what a way to die... what a way to live.
The justice system had better serve up some actual justice this time.

There should be special prisons for offenders like these. No TV. No comfort. No outside contact. Just the bare minimum required to live. And they should stay there until death.

[Scorpygirl]

RIP Nia. :weep: As others have said may the angels now look after you and give you big hugs.

[Mr. Peanut]

You touch my baby, you die. Very straight forward.


+ 1

Very painfully, to hell with the consequences.

[Zuki Bandit]

These sick f..kers need to be made an example of. Child abuse in this country hits the headlines with a bang and then quickly gets swept under the carpet.
I may sound like a redneck on a witch hunt, but I think the only way to make those cowardly arseholes who get off on harming the little ones, is to expose them for who they are and what they have done and let karma takes it's natural course.

They will get what they deserve, in some way, shape or form!

[Ocean1]

The risk factors are already widely known - single parenthood, low maternal education, low maternal age at birth, poor housing, large family size, and parental drug or alcohol abuse.

The correlation between the risk factors you quote and poor social performance of all sorts has been at the root of social and health funding policy for about two decades. My wife is a health pro, it’s a “discussion” we used often to have. She’d roll out reams of data demonstrating obvious links between (say) low income and (EG) poor health to prove that the one causes the other. I won’t roll out the age old beater about statistics, it’s puerile. My argument was and still is that while the links between these “risk factors” and child/wife abuse, poor health, criminal behaviour and a bunch of other general shit is accepted, obvious, it in no way means that one is causal and the others symptomatic.

Let’s apply Occam’s razor, of the explanations that effectively describe the observed effect the one that postulates the least number of entities (factors) is almost always correct. Over such a large statistical sample, where most show multiple “risk factors” it’s extremely likely that there’s one over-riding cause. If you accept that ALL of the data is the effect of a single cause outside the scope of the set it makes way more sense.

The single cause?
Lack of self discipline.
It can be (and I’d suggest almost always is) the root cause of all of the “risk factors” listed in currently fashionable social literature AND the “outcomes” supposedly cause by them.

If, as an adult you can’t be fucked maintaining a healthy lifestyle, having a job, cooking well balanced meals, managing a safe household, supporting your family etc etc then you’re likely to feel that society doesn’t appreciate you, doesn’t value you. You’re dead right, most of it doesn’t. However, while you and those who you DO feel some sympathy from are reacting to that feeling of rejection by behaving in socially damaging ways and beating the crap out of whoever’s handy the current purveyors of social policy are trying to smooth your ruffled feathers. It’s OK, not your fault, your parents were poor/ill/young/uneducated, we should have taught you better, given you more attention, love. The ugly fact is that once you find yourself faced with individuals who behave like this (for whatever reason) you simply can’t “re-educate” them. Other threads discuss what to do about them.

The children?
Any idea how difficult it is to adopt a child nowadays?
There are far more families who would adopt babies under the right conditions than there are babies available. The conditions, however, exclusively favour the birth mother, not those who want to raise the child as their own. The same policy keeps many kids exposed to exactly the teachings that resulted in the failure of their parents.

Older children and adolescents of such families I don’t know how to deal with. It takes personal resources I know I for one don’t have. There’s a few who’ve posted here already who have what it takes, how to teach self discipline. Why don’t we ask them and those like them what’s needed, and then give it to them?

Maybe then our future children will be safe.

"Goodness alone is never enough. A hard cold wisdom is required, too, for goodness to accomplish good. Goodness without wisdom invariably accomplishes evil." Heinlein.

[Mystery]

RIP Nia, you looked like a little angel and I really hope there is a better place for you to go to because if anyone deserved to feel peace, happiness and love, it is you.

As a Mother, I find this so hard to even begin to understand. I blame the Mother, she left that poor baby with a bunch of bored teenagers who had nothing better to do than torture a poor innocent child. I also blame the Mother's of the mongrels who did this. How can you not teach your children right from wrong, how can you not instill some sense of humanity and compassion.

I know a couple of men who were raised in abusive families, where both the Mother and the kids were beaten. Both were eventually raised by their Mothers only, who struggled to put food on the table. They are two of the best Fathers I know, they do not tolerate violence of any kind to their kids or their wives. So it is not a cycle that cant be broken. It is actually a choice they make.

To all the couples who would make loving and caring Parents, who struggle with infertility problems and undergo IVF and suffer the heartache and disappointment of knowing that they probably will never have the children they would love. I am so sorry, the world is definitely not a fair place.

To the bastards that did these dreadful things which killed this little girl, I hope you rot in hell! I cannot think of a punishment fitting enough for this crime or any violence inflicted on children. It truly makes me sick! :sick:

[pete376403]

Tragic for Nia. Anyone recall what the outcome of the Kahui twins case was, or has that fallen off the radar?

[spudchucka]

They will get what they deserve, in some way, shape or form!

Mmmmm, karma, lets hope there's a big dose heading their way.

[spudchucka]

Tragic for Nia. Anyone recall what the outcome of the Kahui twins case was, or has that fallen off the radar?

Its still before the courts, hence why it isn't getting much discussion in the media.

[spudchucka]

we have called cyfs so many times, and the cops. none of them want to listen.

Unless the kid is in immediate and extreme danger all the cops can do in those circumstances is make a care & protection referral to CYF. The average street cop probably wouldn't have any real experience in doing that so they would have to send a report to their local Youth Aid Section to get anything happening. If you really aren't getting any joy you could try contacting the person in charge of Youth Aid as a starting point.

[riffer]

This is one concern for me too, after a number of people and groups have said we need to look out more for our neighbour's kids.

It's all very well saying we should be nosy neighbours and speak up, but to whom should we speak, and where is the support?

We have some flats out the back of our house - there's tenants who come and go, either white or brown trash, and some are good to their kids, and some aren't. Usually the ones who have the parties aren't good to their kids.

There's no-one we know of whom we can talk to if we have concerns, and I am sure if we did we'd find that things would start going missing from our property or things would get damaged around here. It's happened before with tenants from this property. Having said that, the latest lot seem all right.

[candor]

I tend to agree with some here who've said that sex offenders even paedophiles can sometimes have redeeming features.

My partner and I had a sixteen year old (pretty dull witted) kid stay with us after the whanau ran him off his marae for fiddling with young or nearly teen cousins.

This was not an evil or even mean nasty person. Simply someone continuing a family culture in which incest was normal - who really thought it was Ok - and was some what surprised to be run out of town. Quite sweet tho goofy hapless not socially skilled boy actually.

There is a big difference btw simply being a victim repeating cycles thru emotional ignorance and being a type who partakes in sadistic torture like the Nia killers! The second category are ferals / psychopaths.

Sex offender with blurred boundaries and a poor sense of normal - sometimes redeemable. Child basher / torturer who gets their kicks out of it NOT. You're looking often at genetic loading to psychopathy there.

I don't think anyone needs to worry about the Curtis scum getting their beans. Seems they've "paid it forward". Curtis senior was regularly bashed and hospitalised by gangs as a young man.

Young curtis was tossed around obviously unloved - thats how he met Nias mum and saw her as a food ticket being in "survival mode". I'd bet he received similar "punishments" to Nia but just happened to "make it" thru.

The young girl Oriwa Kemp who was involved was preggers at fourteen and seems to have had the sense regularly knocked out of her head as a girl (according to a teacher who said she wandered streets looking dazed as a kid and came to school unfed and unchanged) before proceeding to date one of the co-killers.

Who also locked her out the house overnight on cold nights while Nia was also getting crap treatment, even tho Oriwa was a young mum.

Nias mum was an alcy it appears which meant she worked hard then didnt come home as partying hard. Meanwhile Oriwa (very young mum in abusive relationship) was expected to babysit plus look after her own kid plus Nia.

An emotionally bonded mum would seek to spend time with kids not to escape the domestic hell by going out drinking. Work to drink describes the mum.

Nias mums mum had a kid every ten mths - where is the room for a close personal bond and development of any sense of individual identity there? She said she thought she did alright by bringing everyone up "to do their chores" and apparently lived by the cleanliness is godliness creed ie surface appearances.

Someone suggested putting these types back in the loony bins. A few years ago they would have gone there automatically as anything slightly "off" was immediately shipped off to the bin.

The one kid I know killed this way, the Edmonds girl - her mum was a known unwell schizo with drug problems.

This nine yr old died because of cyps INSISTING on placing the kid with her mum. Very simple - PC crap - keep them in the birth whanau, in the culture and especially with the mum.

When i began my nurse training the mum would have been permanently institutionalised. The murder therefore could not have happened.

What broke down here it seems is that Nias mum did not get the opportunity for residential alcohol treatment (to interrupt / detach and see the cycle) at a place like Hamner Springs, I'd wager.

Had she done that, if she is not nuts (she held a senior job so prolly wasn't too silly) the likelihood is that she'd have better protected and coped with her kids and life.

This is all based on media reports mind especially this one - and note Nias "mum" today said everyhing in the media so far has been wrong. Wrong? Or has she been living in a bit of a fantasy / denial like many abuse cycle women?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4153173a6619.html Warning - long family history

[spudchucka]

I was sent an email the other day and these bastards got of murder and and got manslaughter fu-ken beats me and then where only given eight years and will be out in 4. These pictures are desterbing they are x rate

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4154078a10.html

Interesting that the judge ordered the pictures to be released to the media.

[Hitcher]

Like others here, I have started being spammed by people passing on the online petition seeking stronger penalties for child abusers.

I have not signed this.

If I thought for a moment that deterent penalties would make any difference to New Zealand's child abuse epidemic, I would sign it in a heartbeat.

Baying for blood, freezing cold cells, bread-and-water rations, scalding hot pokers stuffed up offenders' bottoms, compulsory castration and signing petitions will not, in my view, make one jot of difference. I suspect that people who feel compelled to inflict physical and mental cruelty on others too small/weak/subjugated to fight back do not think of the consequences of being caught when they do. These people do not make rational decisions and therefore are incapable of being swayed by elegant or persuasive argument. They have no concept of "consequences" anyway, so more severe consequences will trouble them not.

If stiffer prison sentences make the morally outraged amongst us feel better, I guess that is one positive. But if people are really serious about looking after the lives, liberty and happiness of other people's children, then there are other forms of intervention they should be considering that may stem this growing tide. Regretably such measures are not as simple as a few strokes of a lawmaker's pen.

[007XX]

If stiffer prison sentences make the morally outraged amongst us feel better, I guess that is one positive. But if people are really serious about looking after the lives, liberty and happiness of other people's children, then there are other forms of intervention they should be considering that may stem this growing tide. Regretably such measures are not as simple as a few strokes of a lawmaker's pen.

Then, (one would ask very respectfully) what in your point of view, would be a way to make things better?

[Hitcher]

Then, (one would ask very respectfully) what in your point of view, would be a way to make things better?

There are no easy answers to this. And domestic violence doesn't appear to be the exclusive preserve of a socially deprived/neglected "under class", although some of the more recent extreme cases suggest that such folk are more at risk of doing this kind of thing than others.

Lower socio-economic groups are where many of the "ills" and illnesses in our society are concentrated. Maori are over-represented in these groups. Lower socio-economic groups are under-educated and often isolated/disconnect from families and family support measures that others in society rely on, can afford or take for granted. They don't read newspapers, listen to the news or surf the Internet, so are also isolated from the world around them.

If people are interested in causes, rather than symptoms, this is where they should be directing their focus.

Why was Nia abused to a point where she died from horrendous injuries?
How could such violence happen?
Where were her caregivers?

This violence allegedly happened over a prolonged period, rather than being just one incident.

How could such behaviour be condoned by caregivers and neighbours?
Is Nia the only child in her family to endure such treatment?

Change the name of the child and ask the same questions for any of the other recent cases.

Will inflicting painful revenge on the offenders make any difference? No.

Would early intervention by community groups or the Police a year ago have made a difference? Possibly.

Should we all be doing more to help those whose circumstances are not as priviledged as ours? Yes, but we don't want to face up to it. It's easier to donate $1 a week to World Vision and adopt an African orphan than it is to worry about what a bunch of hoodie losers are up to in Fordlands or Aranui.

[Ocean1]

H, if you believe those lower socio-economic groups are less well supported than the more affluent amongst us then your privileged access to a daily newspaper has left you no less isolate from the real world than them.

[Hitcher]

H, if you believe those lower socio-economic groups are less well supported than the more affluent amongst us then your privileged access to a daily newspaper has left you no less isolate from the real world than them.

"Support" should involve more than throwing money at people via the Department of Sexual Warfare. On that basis African orphans are definitely better off.

[ManDownUnder]

Then, (one would ask very respectfully) what in your point of view, would be a way to make things better?


There are no easy answers to this.

Quick answers no - easy answers yes. Community. Love thy neighbour, get involved. KB's probably a reasonably good example of this.

Examples I have to hand - I made the mistake of having one too many drinks at a function not so long back. MackTheKnife simply took me aside for a second and asked "You're not driving home are you?". Made it pretty bloody obvious I wasn't (and till that point I didn't realise the state I was in. He then went WELL out of his way to help resolve my self induced predicament.).

THAT is community in action. If I ever beat my kids and he found out I'm sure he's politely, respectfully let his views known and escalate things accordingly. Anyone else doing so would also get my respect.

I feel free to do that same as required in here. If I ever put people's noses out of joint then it simply highlights the fact someone (one, other, possibly both) have something more they need to explain or learn. Same as life in general. Take those same principles and live with them. Encourage others too - as I am doing right now. No such thing as "their" problem. If you know it's a problem and choose to stay out of it... you just became an accomplice.

/rant... sorry... hot topic.

[Ocean1]

"Support" should involve more than throwing money at people via the Department of Sexual Warfare. On that basis African orphans are definitely better off.

I wonder if the incidence of criminal behaviour is as high in African orphans as it is amongst social welfare recipients.

Doubt you’ll get many arguments about the need for someting other than the judicious application of cash to the problem. But have you not noticed the reluctance (locally) in most cases to accept support other than the “no strings” monetary type?

Let’s start by calling things by their proper name. The correct word for the support of the less capable members of society is charity. By it’s very nature charity is offered by one individual to another. Identifying a portion of the public purse as being available for the task is not charity. Neither is the apportioning of it by the bureau responsible for (insert currently fashionable acronym(s) here) welfare.

The giving of assistance to the needy by those capable of delivering it is a wonderful thing to witness. True charity may not always be effective in changing poor social behaviour, but the bulk-funding of unproductive and seriously anti-social lifestyle choices can never be.

Even if we fail to receive better returns for our alms the very least we “should” do is remove the constraints from those amongst us (officially sanctioned or otherwise) who would offer genuine charity. Collectively or individually the more effective type of support comes with a price tag: change.

[Hitcher]

I see that some pious self-promoting child welfare group is now advocating three minutes of silence in protest against child abuse. I guess after generations of New Zealanders standing around doing and saying nothing about child abuse, another three minutes of inaction can't hurt. Then everybody can go back to what ever it was they were doing, knowing that they've done something really constructive that will make a difference to abused children's lives.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4154918a10.html

[Winston001]

There is a fundamental discontinuity among these families. The primary drive (after survival) of all humans - all creatures - is to propagate their gene pool. That is why adult creatures care for their young.

So why do some (a few) humans miss this fundamental instinct?

I confess I have no answers. But I'm with Ocean1 in believing that it isn't simply caused by poverty. I've been fortunate to visit a few third world countries where large sections of the population live hand to mouth daily. No social welfare.

Yet these people love and care for their children. You can see it in the children's sparkling eyes, their clean (if ragged) clothes.

Go figure.......

[ManDownUnder]

There is a fundamental discontinuity among these families. The primary drive (after survival) of all humans - all creatures - is to propagate their gene pool. That is why adult creatures care for their young.

So why do some (a few) humans miss this fundamental instinct?

A very very very good question. I have no answer to it, but it's a big question. To my mind possibly the central question here. :rockon:

[007XX]

I see that some pious self-promoting child welfare group is now advocating three minutes of silence in protest against child abuse. I guess after generations of New Zealanders standing around doing and saying nothing about child abuse, another three minutes of inaction can't hurt. Then everybody can go back to what ever it was they were doing, knowing that they've done something really constructive that will make a difference to abused children's lives.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4154918a10.html

Ok, so...I if I get your point correctly:

We are hiding behind an " ambulance at the bottom of the cliff" type of scenario, being holly horrified when we find out about such disgusting human behaviour and endeavour to give ourselves nice clean consciences by condoning revenge or paying money to charity in a Hollier than thou attempt to be decent citizens?

Please correct me if I got it wrong...and I mean that with no sarcasm...

[Ocean1]

A very very very good question. I have no answer to it, but it's a big question. To my mind possibly the central question here. :rockon:

The answer (apparently) is obvious.

Send 'em to Africa.

:done:

[Hitcher]

Ok, so...I if I get your point correctly:

We are hiding behind an " ambulance at the bottom of the cliff" type of scenario, being holly horrified when we find out about such disgusting human behaviour and endeavour to give ourselves nice clean consciences by condoning revenge or paying money to charity in a Hollier than thou attempt to be decent citizens?

Please correct me if I got it wrong...and I mean that with no sarcasm...

Spot on with your summary.

We don't want to be reminded that this sort of thing goes on in our communities. In return for paying our taxes we just want The Gummint to take care of it. Hoodie losers should be neither seen nor heard. Thank you.

We may deign to stand silently for three minutes, unless that interferes with the statutory observance of our lunch hour.

[007XX]

In return for paying our taxes we just want The Gummint to take care of it.
.

But...call me idealistic here, isn't that what it is supposed to be?Or should I perhaps review

I think that where we have gone wrong is we have gotten too big for our own shoes...A bit like a city of Babel scenario...No one knows their neighbour, so why give a hoot?

There is no accountability anymore, no need to respect people...it starts in our schools, where youngsters are no longer afraid to answer back to the teacher, as the worst they can get is kicked out of school (wooptidoo...who gives a flying fox's bum!)...

Consequences to actions...Fix things BEFORE they happen, which means make sure our future generations are brought up to be geared up to be healthy, well balanced individuals who fear what's wrong and champion what's right...

And for those that are already "grown ups", serve up the accountablity all the same...if you're not afraid of the consequence, why not do it again???

[Ocean1]

Consequences to actions...Fix things BEFORE they happen, which means make sure our future generations are brought up to be geared up to be healthy, well balanced individuals who fear what's wrong and champion what's right...

And for those that are already "grown ups", serve up the accountablity all the same...if you're not afraid of the consequence, why not do it again???

Yup, "don't sweat the small stuff" as social policy is a mistake.

[ManDownUnder]

Yup, "don't sweat the small stuff" as social policy is a mistake.

hell yes. NYC/Giuliani's "Broken Windows" policy rocked! Problemn is we'd need enough Police... and that's money fro Govt. coffer that could only come at the expense of other social (welfare) needs...

[007XX]

Yup, "don't sweat the small stuff" as social policy is a mistake.

Care to explain exactly what you mean? It sounds interesting...And I'm also wondering whether you're trying to yank my chain...:laugh:

[Zukin]

I have been thinking a lot lately about kids/children in general

The reason is that we have lost our only daughter Lani to Norway for a year (she is 16)
I don’t care what others think about it, but I miss her terribly.:bye:
When she left we cried and moped around home and we still feel that there is something missing, and the house is very quiet
We are very close, and after the past few days I feel as though our family has been ripped apart. :crybaby:

Whilst we have only misplaced her for a little while, and she will return after 12 months, my thoughts go to those parents (whether a couple or single parent), that have lost a child forever to accident or illness, or other circumstances beyond their control.:weep:
I just can’t comprehend or start to understand what these parents must be going through, as our daughter has only left temporarily to explore the big wide world, their children will never come home.
Yet there doesn’t seem too much support for these parents, only love from family and friends.

Lots of genuine people out there try for years to have children, these people for one reason or another can’t have them, and they are denied the opportunity to care, love and bring a child of their own.:weep:
Then there are those that don’t want to have children for one reason or another, people often say they are “selfish” and “horrible”, but I don’t wear that for a minute, at least they generally care about others.

:angry2:
Yet there are scum sucking f**kers out there that abuse and even kill these defenceless, vulnerable children
I don’t care what people say,
I don’t care about Human rights anymore, these scumbags don’t deserve human rights, NO in fact these scumbags don’t deserve to live, they have no rights, they should have no lives!!!
Why can these scumbags be allowed to breed when there are others that can’t but would love to?
Why do defence lawyers go out of their way to help these wa**kers to get off on a reduced sentence? Yeah I know it’s their job, but wouldn’t they feel much better if they did a better job protecting these innocent kids in the first place? Do they do it for National TV coverage, or the glory!!!
Why do Human right activists fight for these scumbags for unfair treatment in prisons etc, when they should be in the lounges, bathrooms or backyards of kids, fighting for their right to live!!
Why do these idiots get all the help they need (free legal aid, Support and counselling etc), when parents with legitimate reasons for losing their little gems get very little, or worse nothing at all?:angry2:

On the other side of the fence, there are heroes within all this carnage that we are witnessing too often, I think about the Police and what they must deal with when dealing with this scum!! They have to clean up the pieces, and then many would have to go home to children of their own.:second:

We often slag them about the amount of revenue they collect on our roads, but let me tell you I would rather them on the roads collecting revenue than in the backyards of family homes collecting abused/deceased children

And what about the hospital staff, bloody legends!!! What else can I say?:first:

The actions of a few scumbags have a huge impact on society, and it affects more people that we care to think about.
I had already starting typing this earlier today, before I saw on the news about a silent protest on Wednesday at 12.12pm, I will certainly be taking part and I encourage you to do the same if you feel the same.:yes:

Sorry for my rant, but I am pissed about this crap, and I feel much better that I can share this with whom I often refer to as my extended family :grouphug:

Regards

[98tls]

Nice post and agreed on all counts,trouble is nothing will change because theres to many do-gooders out there that scream foul play when it comes time to deal with the scum buckets,seems its ok to fuck up a childs life but heaven help you if you attempt any real measures of justice on the person who commits these crimes,theres a huge number of people out there who get there lifestyle funded by supposedly trying to help these pieces of shit.Go figure.:angry2:

[ManDownUnder]

Yeah mate.

I try to keep a level head most of the time but this shite does help me see red more quickly than normal. I'm one of those "Slow to anger" types but when I get there do not expect a rational response...

I know if this happened to any of my kids I'd be turning myself into the cop ship for fear of doing something that would se me locked up for life an beyond.

My bit is simply this. Pay it forward. Sounds strange possibly but the more I look at the world and what ails it, it seems to be the sense of collective responsibility. So if I can stick my nose in your business - only when well intentioned, respectful and with the intention of helping, you're welcome to reciprocate.

These monsters need bringing down, and the cops are understaffed (like that's a surprise) and couldn't be everywhere even if they had the numbers. It's the neighbours who are the front line. And if they are likely to be overwhelmed - THEIR neighbours need to be available to help... and so on.

I'm pissed off by this whole bloody mess too... I really am. I'm doing what I can to clean up my back yard and keep an eye on one or two around me.

The invite's there to come along for the ride if you think it can work.

I'm starting to sounds like John and Yoko "All I am saying, is give peace a chance" LOL

Anyway. Good post - I know where you are coming from... I do take issue with some of the solutions proposed, but then that's simply a difference of opinion. I daren't say any of it is wrong.

[Mom]

I have been thinking a lot lately about kids/children in general

The reason is that we have lost our only daughter Lani to Norway for a year (she is 16)
I don’t care what others think about it, but I miss her terribly.:bye:
When she left we cried and moped around home and we still feel that there is something missing, and the house is very quiet
We are very close, and after the past few days I feel as though our family has been ripped apart. :crybaby:

Regards

Mate, I can clearly remember when my daughter went to Japan at the same age.
I am a big advocate of raising independant children and did not think I would ever suffer the empty nest thing. WRONG! Interestingly now she is almost 21 I dont pine at all! Time and a place and season and blah blah!

I expected to miss her at first, but not like I actually did. I was simply not happy while Rachael was away, nothing specific, just felt something was not right. I burst into tears when I recieved a letter, pined for her dreadfully!! A wise friend of mine comforted me by saying I was not ready to let go......she was right!
My kids mean the world to me, I would be the one that you might read about facing charges of murder, should someone damage them, I have no doubt about it.

Sadly there is a culture here that is blind to the abuse of the kids of our future. I read I think in the herald today a family member of that beautiful little girl that died on Friday saying.........whanau need to own this and do something about it! Speak out if you see something, damn the consequences!

[Winston001]

We don't want to be reminded that this sort of thing goes on in our communities. In return for paying our taxes we just want The Gummint to take care of it.

Unfortunately this is all too often our attitude. Everything has become the Government's fault. "They" should do something.

In part it is the result of social democracy where the "cradle to the grave" ethic absolves individuals from worrying about their neighbours.

The other element is that there are quite simply a lot of people in the world. We no longer live in villages and it is hard to know about and intervene when towns and cities are so large.

So we expect the "authorities" to do the protecting. Of course they are just people too, with limited time and resources.

Instead as a nation we need to embrace teaching simple respect at primary school level. Teach that violent acts against other people are wrong. Teach that damaging/stealing property is wrong.

These concepts should come with mothers milk but these days.......uh uh.

I know it sounds all a bit Pollyanna but honestly, these basic values are needed for a civil society to function without fear.

[98tls]

Yeah mate.

I try to keep a level head most of the time but this shite does help me see red more quickly than normal. I'm one of those "Slow to anger" types but when I get there do not expect a rational response...

I know if this happened to any of my kids I'd be turning myself into the cop ship for fear of doing something that would se me locked up for life an beyond.

My bit is simply this. Pay it forward. Sounds strange possibly but the more I look at the world and what ails it, it seems to be the sense of collective responsibility. So if I can stick my nose in your business - only when well intentioned, respectful and with the intention of helping, you're welcome to reciprocate.

These monsters need bringing down, and the cops are understaffed (like that's a surprise) and couldn't be everywhere even if they had the numbers. It's the neighbours who are the front line. And if they are likely to be overwhelmed - THEIR neighbours need to be available to help... and so on.

I'm pissed off by this whole bloody mess too... I really am. I'm doing what I can to clean up my back yard and keep an eye on one or two around me.

The invite's there to come along for the ride if you think it can work.

I'm starting to sounds like John and Yoko "All I am saying, is give peace a chance" LOL

Anyway. Good post - I know where you are coming from... I do take issue with some of the solutions proposed, but then that's simply a difference of opinion. I daren't say any of it is wrong. Agreed to mate but i dont believe its about the numbers of cops..cops and the rest of NZ gets let down by the circus that follows there arrest,as i posted before theres a whole army of want to make the world a better place by talking about it tree hugging fuck ups that pay there mortgage by convincing fellow but higher up tree hugging fuck-ups that talking will make a difference.Theres a few on hear that no doubt will soon contribute some shit filled wisdom to the conversation.

[peasea]

I see that some pious self-promoting child welfare group is now advocating three minutes of silence in protest against child abuse. I guess after generations of New Zealanders standing around doing and saying nothing about child abuse, another three minutes of inaction can't hurt. Then everybody can go back to what ever it was they were doing, knowing that they've done something really constructive that will make a difference to abused children's lives.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4154918a10.html

Yeah, like putting a chip up your dog's nose will prevent dog attacks. There's another child in hospital today, dunno if the dog had a chip or not but I bet that kid doesn't care either way.

What we should do is chip all the ducks, so we could track them and shoot them all, preventing little brats from being tempted to feed them at the park.

Something else we need is three minutes silence from a few politicians.

[Zukin]

Who the hell merged my post with this one :angry2:
Here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1161320&postcount=88) is my original post, and I didn't want to respond to this thread, otherwise I bloody would of!!!!

Although it is a similar topic, it is quite different!!
I am referring to child abuse in general, not one specific case.
In my post I refer to the heroes that often go unnoticed in domestic violence and child abuse, what does this have to do with Shes Gone?

The "Shes Gone topic is sad and well written but I didn't want my post associated with it

The mods (or whomever merged it) are just like some of NZ's society, they sweep issues under the carpet

Put it back!

[Biff]

Baying for ..... compulsory castration

I do - And not because I necessarily want the perp to suffer in some misguided form of retaliation (:yes:), but because it would remove their libido (so I hear). I'm talking about sexual deviants (kiddie fiddlers, rapists etc), not your standard scumbag who appear to think it's ok to go about a small child with a bat.

Fuck the PC crap - If by removing a serial offender's nuts you remove the threat of a kiddie fiddler/rapist's urge to commit an offense then I vote yay. I'd also like to see the pervs put into a fenced enclosure with some hungry tigers. Maybe a 10 acre fenced off section. A few bushes, some small trees. The place rigged up with loads of close circuit cameras to catch all the best bits. Oh and microphones. I like tigers.

:sunny:

[Ocean1]

Care to explain exactly what you mean? It sounds interesting...And I'm also wondering whether you're trying to yank my chain...:laugh:

Common enough advice (don't sweat the petty stuff), often heard when women (in particular) discuss their kid's minor trangressions. Taken to mean "save your energy for the more serious discpline issues".

Self-defeating of course, there may be occasions where it's appropriate to refrain from attempting to correct your kids behaviour, but not many. If you don't take the natural small everyday attacks on the boundaries of authority as an opportunity to teach your kids then they don't recognise it when they really fuck up.

So, sweat the small stuff, or you'll be sweating bigger and bigger stuff.

Re chain... relax, I carefully didn't say "don't pet the sweaty stuff."

[Hitcher]

Who the hell merged my post with this one?

The mods (or whomever merged it) are just like some of NZ's society, they sweep issues under the carpet

Put it back!

I did. There are enough "child abuse hatred" threads on here. And despite its original intent, this thread too has done its share of advocating retaliatory violence and other malicious intent.

Get off your high horse and devote some of your anger to intelligent, reasoned discussion on a topical issue. There are enough Mod Bashing threads on here as well.

Let's keep this discussion in as few places as possible, OK?

[007XX]

Common enough advice (don't sweat the petty stuff), often heard when women (in particular) discuss their kid's minor trangressions. Taken to mean "save your energy for the more serious discpline issues".

Self-defeating of course, there may be occasions where it's appropriate to refrain from attempting to correct your kids behaviour, but not many. If you don't take the natural small everyday attacks on the boundaries of authority as an opportunity to teach your kids then they don't recognise it when they really fuck up.

So, sweat the small stuff, or you'll be sweating bigger and bigger stuff.



One should carefully choose his/her battles, eh? Definitely!:yes:

Nip it in the bud, I say!

[Zukin]

I did. There are enough "child abuse hatred" threads on here. And despite its original intent, this thread too has done its share of advocating retaliatory violence and other malicious intent.

Get off your high horse and devote some of your anger to intelligent, reasoned discussion on a topical issue. There are enough Mod Bashing threads on here as well.

Let's keep this discussion in as few places as possible, OK?

I agree with you most of the time Hitcher, but this time I think your wrong OK?

Again you edit the post and only quote what you want to quote!!
Edit, edit, merge, chop etc Blah Blah

I could understand if my post has something to do with the original post, but it doesn't

Why
1. First I was expressing my disappointment about my daughter leaving NZ
2. I wanted to express how I felt about parents whom have lost children for other genuine reasons
3. I wanted to share why the reasons some people that wish they could have children cant.
4. To share my personal opinion, if that involves hatred towards child abusers then that is fine by me, I really dont care what others think!

I rarely get on the high horse, so why cant I express my opinions? I have for for the most part, taken part in constructive and "intelligent" discussions, but this has been taken too far.

As for Mod bashing, that was never my intention, hence why I said "The mods (or whomever merged it)??
I dont know if mods are the only members that can change things or not

Enough
Put it back

Regards Scott

[Bend-it]

So, who's doing the 3 minute vigil to protest against child abuse? We should have a Welly KB vigil somewhere... followed by lunch...

If you haven't heard about it, it's a silent vigil where at 12.12pm tomorrow, everyone stops work, goes out to the street and stands for 3 minutes.

See article here:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/dominionpost/4156220a6030.html

I thought it might be more meaningful if we did it together, preferably visibly with bikes.

Any ideas? Post in thread here: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1162862

[peasea]

So, who's doing the 3 minute vigil to protest against child abuse? We should have a Welly KB vigil somewhere... followed by lunch...

If you haven't heard about it, it's a silent vigil where at 12.12pm tomorrow, everyone stops work, goes out to the street and stands for 3 minutes.

See article here:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/dominionpost/4156220a6030.html

I thought it might be more meaningful if we did it together, preferably visibly with bikes.

Any ideas? Post in thread here: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1162862

Sorry, but I fail to see what three minutes of silence is going to do.

It will take years (not three minutes) to reverse the trend of child abuse and while I applaud starting somewhere, to me silence isn't the right place. After all, it's most likely that silence is what the problem feeds on.

Irony comes in many forms.

[Hitcher]

Sorry, but I fail to see what three minutes of silence is going to do.

It will take years (not three minutes) to reverse the trend of child abuse and while I applaud starting somewhere, to me silence isn't the right place. After all, it's most likely that silence is what the problem feeds on.

Irony comes in many forms.

I agree absolutely. The motivation for such public grandstanding is more to do with activist groups headline seeking for their own purposes rather than any sense of concern or offering of real solutions for family violence in New Zealand.

This will not be New Zealand's last Nia death experience...

[007XX]

In regards to the 3 minute silence moment...I'll be hugging my son for that time, thanking all that is for bringing him to me and give me the strength to be the best parent I can ever be.

Silence is not what will stop malfunctionning individuals from doing what they did to children like Nia...

Silence is the opposite of what needs to be done.

[peasea]

In regards to the 3 minute silence moment...I'll be hugging my son for that time, thanking all that is for bringing him to me and give me the strength to be the best parent I can ever be.

Silence is not what will stop malfunctionning individuals from doing what they did to children like Nia...

Silence is the opposite of what needs to be done.

Quite right and I just got a glimpse on telly of the gems of our society that brought about Nia's death. They say you shouldn't judge a book by its cover but if the book is wide open you're likely to get the general idea of what it's all about.

I actually didn't say anything when I saw those miscreants; I just looked, shook my head, thought about how wonderful my kids are and how important those first few years are. Nia, whose image will never escape me, won't get to do the things my eldest and I did today; doing the dishes, painting some more of the fence, wash the cars and share a cuppa. It's true; that's what we did.

Nia won't get that chance, that opportunity, that love.

RIP Nia.

[Goblin]

Nia won't get that chance, that opportunity, that love.

RIP Nia.And the worst part of it all is that her siblings never will either. and there are many more kids in the same boat.