Your opinion please

[FROSTY]

You are out on a saturday morning to look around for a new Bike/car/tv .
You walk into the business and the salesperson comes up to you.
Does how they are dressed affect your opinion of the premises?
Would you be more relaxed if they had shirt n tie or a polo shirt -or doesn't it really matter ??
I'd apreciate your feedback and if possible your age group

[Grahameeboy]

Doesn't really matter...as long as the salesman's attitude is right.

I am 44.

[Usarka]

Depends what is being sold and who the taget market is. if it's a lower / mid end type shop or yard i'd be more distrusting of someone in a suit (incl bike shop!). but i probably wouldnt buy my next aston martin from a guy in a t-shirt. smart polo and good attitude would be grand for me 9 times out of 11. mid 30s. aaayyyeeee.

[sAsLEX]

Don't stink. Can't buy something off someone with BO or bad breath.

[Little Miss Trouble]

As long as the sales persons general appearance is tidy I don't really care what theyre wearing, you can be wearing a shirt and tie a still look slobby.

Attitude towards customers has alot more to do with getting my business than appearance, if someone talks down to me or acts like they can't be bothered putting in an effort to help me, I go elsewhere.

[Mom]

Frosty it is all about service. Clean tidy appearance is important, but a suit and tie does not a salesman make.

Maha man and I went into a local appliance store a few years ago with the cash to purchase a surround sound system. We looked, we touched, we stood around looking at the sales staff, we fiddled about some more with the wires/mounts etc. We got ignored completely. So we walked. As we were about to leave the shop one of the sales staff thought to ask if we needed help with anything. My answer, no thanks we are off to Albany to buy a surround sound system, or words to that effect. These people were wearing corporate casual type clothing, looked smart but were offensive to the extreme.

[Little Miss Trouble]

Don't stink. Can't buy something off someone with BO or bad breath.

Or waaaaaay to much aftershave!

[Flatcap]

I like to see a branded polo shirt for a sales person - a tidy team uniform while the wearer looks prepared to get dirty hands if needed.

Shirt and tie is for accountants

Age group 36

[Big Dave]

What it 'is' doesn't matter as long as it's clean, neat and tidy.

Like they made an effort.

If they haven't got the self respect to do that, what chances they will look after you?

(Unless it's an artisan/tradesman - then whatever - it's about the job. Logo on the overalls.)

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[cowpoos]

I would like to see all salesmen wearing pink and purple stripped polo's with bow ties and white pants!!

[What?]

As long as the sales persons general appearance is tidy I don't really care what theyre wearing, you can be wearing a shirt and tie a still look slobby.

Attitude towards customers has alot more to do with getting my business than appearance, if someone talks down to me or acts like they can't be bothered putting in an effort to help me, I go elsewhere.

My thoughts precisely.
And I'm about your age group, Frosty. Old and grumpy.

[xwhatsit]

I think these days that the shirt and tie has lost relevance as a marker for `class'. Used to be that the difference between somebody who wore a tie and somebody who didn't was quite obvious and large. These days, they're just a throwaway item that cost about as much as a polo shirt anyway. You look at all the high-school kids or uni students working part-time jobs in a shirt and tie -- tie lopsided, shirt a bit crooked and needs proper tucking in, etc. It's hardly very intimidating (if you're just wearing a t-shirt) or formal.

As a result, the polo and shirt & tie have about the same impact, at least on the younger generation and in this type of situation. Overall neatness and presentation make far more of an impression.

[Colapop]

The reality is that people don't come into your shop/yard unless they are interested in something you've got. Being professional and courteous go a long way toward getting the sale. Salespersons should be;.
Clean, tidy and have a 'neutral' smell (no one smell be too strong - good or bad).
Be polite not pushy.
The customer is the most important person to you (for the brief time that they're with you) don't be a suck-up.
Be knowledgeable without being overly technical.
Able to offer options - either HP or Lay-by, extras or tailor made packages (in terms of product)
Honesty (Ha! I hear so many people laugh at this) it is actually important to believe in the product you sell.

Of course I'm not a salesperson - I'm a buyer and that's what I look for.

Male, 35-40, likes short walks on the beach and lots of sex.

[MSTRS]

Male, 35-40, likes short walks on the beach and lots of sex.

Col - whilst the honest approach is always refreshing, try "...beach and nights in with that compatible person" :innocent:
Frosty - surely you've been around long enough to know that what works for one potential buyer doesn't for another? But no-one likes smarmy....

[Indiana_Jones]

Doesn't matter really what they wear, as long as they know what they're on about.

But if I'd have to choose, I'd say Polo shirt over shirt and tie.

-Indy

[James Deuce]

I absolutely HATE it when I walk into any retail establishment and get "approached" by a salesperson. Depending on mood I will either ignore the person or be engaging and pleasant, but note this bit: I will not buy anything from that establishment.

I tend to know what I'm looking for and will ask for help when I want it. If I get ignored at that point the establishment just missed out on some money.

[FROSTY]

Maha. I know what works for me but I'm making a decision for the staff
I prefer a Polo shirt with company Logo but Im not gonna jump if people think its too casual.
You guys should come down and say gidday--Im in Henderson now

[The Pastor]

smart casual is the only way to go.

You have to look like you know what your doing. People may not think about it too hard but on a subconius level first impressions do last.

A good car sales person should wear somthing nice (not a T shirt) like a smart polo shirt. the company should Idealy put a polo shirt with their logo on it so every one looks the same and looks like a properly working team.

It will help the customers identify the staff and make them slightly more relaxed in asking questions.

If your selling ferriars (some sort of fancy cage i think) or lambos (again some flash cage) then full suit is required. but for standard sales yards a nice polo and pant with the logo on it is the way to go.

but the main point is attitude.

Myself, indy and curious_aj go in to buy a bed at some furniture store.

the sales man was the most useless salesman ive ever seen, he was some punk prob 16-20 ish. Im pretty sure he didnt understand the term comission.

"can I help you"- sales dick.
"yes i'd like to buy the bed deal you had on the internet, $500 for this bed frame and matress" - indy"
"uh like do you have the brochure?"
"no it was on the internet"
"ok"
--- at this point he just walks off---
--- comes back, jumps on bed to read some lable---
---comes back---
"do you have the brochure"
"no its from the internet. do you still offer this deal?"
"let me go find out"
"my house is a 2min walk down the road, can you guys deliver it?"
"no we give all deliveries to another company"
---walks off for another 5 mins---
"so like do you want to buy it today" <-- this bit pissed me off the most.
"yes"
"yeah we will do the deal, but uh like we have the frame but we have sold out of the materss"
"when will the next lot be in?"
"don't know maybe 3 or 4 weeks?"
"can you put another materss on?"-myself
"no"
"can you sort us out at all maybe do some sort of deal?"
"no"
--- we walk out, in disbelife"

[FROSTY]

I absolutely HATE it when I walk into any retail establishment and get "approached" by a salesperson. Depending on mood I will either ignore the person or be engaging and pleasant, but note this bit: I will not buy anything from that establishment.



I tend to know what I'm looking for and will ask for help when I want it. If I get ignored at that point the establishment just missed out on some money.



I prefer to come over and say gidday then leave you to it.You know who I am and that If you need help I'm not too far away

[SlashWylde]

Depends on the nature of the business. Regardless of the situation, tidy dress is a reflection of the business ethics of the owner(s). For example:

In a bike shop I'd probably expect to see sales folk dressed in polos bearing the logos of the stores brands e.g Kawasaki, KTM etc.

In a whiteware store I'd expect to see the sales people in dress pants, tidy long sleeved shirt (with or without company logo) and possibly a tie.

But overall the attitude, knowledge and helpfulness of the staff is more important.

My age group: 30 - 40.

[MyGSXF]

Don't really care what they wear as such, as long as they are helpful & friendly :yes: If they are pushy at all, I leave! :angry:

Tis all about attitude dahhhhling :shutup:

[007XX]

Being in sales myself, I am a strong believer that it is all about attitude.
I prefer to be relaxed in the clothes that I'm in, but always tidy (ie: properly ironed clothes and a cleancut appearance).

I would tend to distrust and remove myself more emotionally from a rep who has a suit and looks over the top "american" kind of salesman. Of course, it depends on the product you're selling too, but I think that in general, Kiwis are more relaxed about the dressing code.

I'm 31.

[007XX]

I absolutely HATE it when I walk into any retail establishment and get "approached" by a salesperson. Depending on mood I will either ignore the person or be engaging and pleasant, but note this bit: I will not buy anything from that establishment.

I tend to know what I'm looking for and will ask for help when I want it. If I get ignored at that point the establishment just missed out on some money.




Valid point...Although from my experience, when you work in retail, it is a bit difficult NOT to approach and at least say Hi...As I used to feel the same way as you, I'd leave the customers alone to browse, and the next thing I knew, half of them would come over and say things like:

"are you going to keep on ignoring me?" or:
"Can't we get any service around here??"

Trust me, it is a double edged sword...

So now, I'll just acknowledge the incoming customers with a smile, and make sure I keep an eye out for a them, were they to want help.

[nighthawk]

I prefer to see sales staff in tidy casual dress of a uniform style so they can be easily identified when needed, they should greet you or at least acknowledge you when you enter and then leave you to it until you are ready to make your purchase, at this point they should then have enough product knowledge to answer and questions, if any,.... it worked for me with great success.

In the over the hill age group

[Robert Taylor]

I distrust all salesman regardless of what they are wearing.
But as he said.. its all attitude.

I can relate to what you say. Id like to find a salesman that actually knows what hes talking about, thats increasingly rare in this ''box franchise'' world. And are they serfs to a bigger agenda? If on commission they wont care what they sell, if just on a set wage then maybe they wont care?

[R1madness]

I absolutely HATE it when I walk into any retail establishment and get "approached" by a salesperson. Depending on mood I will either ignore the person or be engaging and pleasant, but note this bit: I will not buy anything from that establishment.

I tend to know what I'm looking for and will ask for help when I want it. If I get ignored at that point the establishment just missed out on some money.




Heck Jim you make it hard. You want to be ignored but then want snappy service after ignoring (its rude to ignore people when they talk to you) the salesperson. Probibly not much point in ever comming to our shop as it is company poilcy to say hello to every customer as soon as possable. If they dont want to talk thats fine we will leave them alone to get on with it by themselves.
Happy shopping

[jrandom]

I like it when sales guys rock straight up, ask if they can help, make it easy for me to say "no, fuck off", and just generally remain pleasant.

I also like it when they know more than I do about what they're selling. I wanted to buy a fridge a few months back - the sales guy at the first appliance store I went to was unaware that F&P was an NZ brand.

I don't really care what they look like.

But I think there should definitely be more hot chicks.

[James Deuce]

Heck Jim you make it hard. You want to be ignored but then want snappy service after ignoring (its rude to ignore people when they talk to you) the salesperson. Probibly not much point in ever comming to our shop as it is company poilcy to say hello to every customer as soon as possable. If they dont want to talk thats fine we will leave them alone to get on with it by themselves.
Happy shopping

I don't think you read what I said right, and that sort of policy drives me nuts.

[Nasty]

I expect salesmen/woman .. to look and act professional ... it matters less about shirt and tie than attitude. The thing to be is not to let it become sleezy ... I had having salesmen attack me as soon as I walk on a yard .. I don't mind a 'can i help you' but when i say ' no ' or ' I will call you when I am ready" I expect that to be taken and not then stalked all over a yard. I don't know i f others have this experience .. but I guess it comes from the commission work ...

[Disco Dan]

You are out on a saturday morning to look around for a new Bike/car/tv .
You walk into the business and the salesperson comes up to you.
Does how they are dressed affect your opinion of the premises?
Would you be more relaxed if they had shirt n tie or a polo shirt -or doesn't it really matter ??
I'd apreciate your feedback and if possible your age group

Depends on the business.

Something like Noel Leemings I would be more likely to buy from someone wearing suit and tie.

Motorbike shop, as long as the person know what they are talking about it would not really matter.

Car yard, well that would depend on the area and the general appearance of the yard... a run down yard full of old cars and a salesman dressed up to the nines would appear dodgy. A more up market yard with a salesman dressed up would get a sale. But the hair cut is important... comb overs usually mean dodgy. :shutup::innocent:

(im 24)

[R1madness]

Jim2, Its not there to dirve ya mad, if you dont want to talk to us just say "its cool man i just want to have a look" I will laugh and say "sweet as feel free to have a sit as well as a look" and wander off. Give me a nob when you want me to come back.

[Paul in NZ]

I absolutely HATE it when I walk into any retail establishment and get "approached" by a salesperson. Depending on mood I will either ignore the person or be engaging and pleasant, but note this bit: I will not buy anything from that establishment.

I tend to know what I'm looking for and will ask for help when I want it. If I get ignored at that point the establishment just missed out on some money.




I know what you mean but if I was in charge of any direct sales organisation I would insist my sales people have some sort of conversation with every customer that comes in.. Can i help you is not pushy - it's saying, "Hi, I work here, if you need anything, let me know".

Study after study reveals a massive increase in sales if you establish 'some' form of contact with the walk in customer..

Tony - polo or tie, it does not matter as long as it is clean and tidy and of a reasonable quality - like someone else said - looks like someone cared about getting dressed for work. I'd go for polos or open neck business shirt with a logo or something and issue new ones regularly, nice trou and proper shoes.

I'm 50

[pyrocam]

24, used to work in retail sales (white shirt and tie)
I feel the only reason to wear anything other than your casual clothes is so people can identify you from other shoppers easily, but past that point its all what you know and how friendly/approachable you are that really matters to me.

[Goblin]

Give me a nob when you want me to come back.
:laugh: Do you get many comebacks?

[ammo_alan]

I agree with every one on that one "as long as there attitude is right" and they know what there talking about with no bull sh*t.
makes me sound like a sheep I know.

aged 24

[Mystery]

You are out on a saturday morning to look around for a new Bike/car/tv .
You walk into the business and the salesperson comes up to you.
Does how they are dressed affect your opinion of the premises?
As long as they are fully clothed and tidy, no it wouldnt affect my opinion of the premises.



Would you be more relaxed if they had shirt n tie or a polo shirt -or doesn't it really matter ??
I would prefer smart casual (polo shirt, tidy jeans or trousers). It's how I dress 90% of the time so I would definitely be more relaxed but for me its all about friendly (not overbearing) service and salespeople who dont judge a cheque book by the way the holder looks or dresses.


I'd apreciate your feedback and if possible your age groupI will admit to being in the 40+ age group

[scumdog]

Expect:
Clean and tidy appearance
Helpful but no pushy
Knowledge of product
Able to speak in a language I understand that is not compossed of monosylabic grunts.
Shoes that look like shoes instead of looking like a garbage scow.

(And lady assistant with hooters and a low cut top will get my attention!!)

50-and-a-bit grumpy years. Bah humbug.

[Sanx]

I generally don't trust people in suits. I've seen far too many people for whom a smart suit is worn merely to help hide the fact they're a complete waste of space. Polo shirt with a company logo is a good idea, as it does let customers identify staff easily. Noel Leeming-esque shirts and ties are, frankly, pointless. They look scruffy 99% of the time and it's obvious they're awkward and uncomfortable.

Essentially, the salesman should be knowledgable enough to assist with enquiries, honest enough to admit he doesn't know the answer, pleasant to deal with and posess a sense of humour. Provided he's got those attributes (or most of them) I'll buy from him (provided the product's right) whether he's wearing a handmade-in-Milan suit or a pink tutu.

I'm 32, going on ten.

[Gremlin]

I would say the crucial part is what market you're in. You're selling 6 figure vehicles, then yeah, smart appearance, as thats most likely what your customers are looking like. I dare say your average saturday shopper at a normal car yard wouldn't feel very comfortable dealing with someone dressed to the nines, all slicked back etc.

With your gear you should make the customer feel comfortable dealing with you (a lot of this is the attitude and knowledge of the staff). Biggest thing is staff knowing their products, being helpful when asked, and looking like a unit (ie, same gear for everyone).

Bikes I think its slightly different. I'll deal with guys I know. Personally, amps bikes sales staff seem extremely up themselves and poncy. I don't want a polished shop, I want somewhere I feel at home (I spend enough time there anyway :mellow:)

[Spuds1234]

It depends on what Im buying but generally so long as their appearance suits the job they work at its all good.

If I go to a mechanics and they are wearing a suit it looks a bit strange. If they are wearing dirty overalls then its all good.

That said, so long as they are polite and dont talk down to you its all good.

I went looking for spark plugs for the Katana the other day. I walked in knowing what the manual says I should have as standard, know what I should have if the standard plugs were getting wet, and knew what I did have.

The guy at Stanmore Road Auto Spares gave me some good advice, asked the right questions and I was able to answer them as best I could and from that he sold me 5 spark plugs. I would happily go there again.

That said I specifically went there because I had bought things if this guy before and he seemed knowledgeable and was polite and didnt treat me like an idiot.

Computer stores are the worst for this kinda service. Treating every customer like a knob. If I was in a job like that I would start out with the newbie explanations and if the customer clearly understood them and was able to form coherent questions I would use more jargon to a point where he was asking "what that do/mean" type questions.

Bad service never gets my money. And I tend to always buy with cash. I blame my parents for this habit. I would rather pay a little bit extra for good service than get a cheap price and be treated like dirt.

[James Deuce]

Just remembered. Never proffer an opinion on KB. I forgot.

Geez, It's not right or wrong, it's just MY opinion.

[MSTRS]

I been thinking about this...
You need a point of difference, so go for the stereotypical car shark look, since all the others are trying their best not to - you know, check suit, black patent leather shoes with white spats, flashy gold watch and at least two rings, brylcremed hair, sleazy moustache and the catch-cry "Check this little beauty, have I got a deal on this one for you!!"

[ManDownUnder]

Depends entirely on the good in question but it would need to be consistant with the brand image image of the good and retailer in question (which should be in sync of course).

The goods listed - I'd say smart casual, preferably branded (i.e. a Panasonic shirt) of a prominant brand you're trying to sell. It lends some credibility as you approach and will distinguish you from just being a punter (and avoids the need for a name badge which you would possibly need to make the distinction otherwise).

Product knowledge is ever essential, as is a personable approach. Sales courses teach a variety of approaches each based on the en vogue psycho-babble of the day. If you have a personality use it. You'll soon establish a rapport with the person you're speaking to and be helping the customer to the solution that best suits their needs.

Sales lecture endeth here...

[Paul in NZ]

Just remembered. Never proffer an opinion on KB. I forgot.

Geez, It's not right or wrong, it's just MY opinion.




Can I help you with finding an opinion sir? We have a special deal on opinions this week - two opposing opinions, one for every occasion at a 10% discount or buy 5, one each for the whole family, and get an extra one free...

Cheer up Jim - its saturday and we aint dead (yet)

[ynot slow]

Valid point...Although from my experience, when you work in retail, it is a bit difficult NOT to approach and at least say Hi...As I used to feel the same way as you, I'd leave the customers alone to browse, and the next thing I knew, half of them would come over and say things like:

"are you going to keep on ignoring me?" or:
"Can't we get any service around here??"

Trust me, it is a double edged sword...

So now, I'll just acknowledge the incoming customers with a smile, and make sure I keep an eye out for a them, were they to want help.

Samething from me,in rural town,we acknowledge every customer,if they want to look we let them,and also remind them if we can help please ask,not everyone wants to be pounced on and pressured into buying,some are just looking or filling in time.

[007XX]

Samething from me,in rural town,we acknowledge every customer,if they want to look we let them,and also remind them if we can help please ask,not everyone wants to be pounced on and pressured into buying,some are just looking or filling in time.

Definitely...having been selling for quite some years now in many different industries, no other than retail taught me more about the "subtle approach". As although people come in generally with the intent to buy, they are also very much on the defensive, expecting to be pounced on.

[ynot slow]

Lets see,suspenders,g string,peek-a-boo- bra thats gotta be a great uniform,not sure what business lol.

Tight t shirt nice tits and no bra,tight pants,this was in shop in Sydney,can't think of name but a car accessories,sold shirts,go fast gear,mags,dvd.Definately NOT repco or supersheep,was for a promotion and just happened to be in area on the day,even got a shirt,mind you there were quite a few guys getting evils from the other half,luckily I was on my own .

[Cave Cleaner]

Hey, It dosent matter what they are wearing I reckon, as long as you get good honest and friendly service.
Age 59

[McJim]

I am 37.

If I'm going to spend money on a big ticket item I expect a bit of effort to be put into the appearance of the dude selling to me.

I'll buy stuff cheap and cheerful from scruffy dudes though.

Also I will haggle harder with a scruffy guy that with a suit. The suit subconciously adds authority to the negotiation.

[puddy]

I can handle just about anything except pushy salespeople who don't know when to shut up and leave you alone. And then you are halfway through your question and they jump straight in and begin answering the question that you didn't ask.
Good honest salespeople with good product knowledge are few and far between.
What business are you in? (You are obviously asking for a specific reason)

[puddy]

Sorry............ I'm in the 39 to 40 age group (physically).......(mentally... 16 to 21 age group!):gob:

[Rockbuddy]

doesn't matter to me what they wear as long as its clean and tidy, the most important thing is service , I was looking to buy a bike just over a year ago ,i went into a bike shop on barrys point rd (no Names) and the guy couldn't even be bothered to get off his butt and see if he could help me needless to say i purchased me bike elsewhere

[FROSTY]

THANKS FOLKS--- Just taken over as Manager of a non franchise car yard in west aucks. The owner has a thing about staff being in Colar and tie.
I'm of the opinion its intimidating but you folk have me thinking its not so intimidating as long as they are personable

[mbazza]

I'm now to be worried by what the salesman / women / person wears?
'One senior owner' ! Cheers.:dodge:

[DEATH_INC.]

I think the whole shirt 'n tie is just stereotypical carsalesman dress, slimey and dishonest ( I deal with enough of 'em at work)......I'd go find the guy in jeans and a t-shirt.....

[Cave Cleaner]

I think thre is a Happy Medium (as the saying goes.) To be ignored by a salesman is just as bad as a pushy one. I had been in sales for many years, and find that just a friendly "Hi" and "let me know if you want any help" seems to be the best way. That way your not in the customers face. and they feel more relaxed and more likely to buy.

[Toaster]

I like sales girls with great tits....but then i have found the rum anf am a bad coy tonight.

[Kittyhawk]

I like sales girls with great tits....but then i have found the rum anf am a bad coy tonight.
I'd like to think I have the rack but aint a sales chick hahaha! So ya outa luck there!


The customer has a goal in mind...a specific product, or finding out more info on a product they are about to buy. You've got the skills to sell:yes:

Uniforms display pride and integrity. A tidy simple uniform is more effective than something with patterns. You want the customer to look at your product, not your uniform and start thinking about what you are wearing because its distracting them from the sale.

Polo shirts are more of a causal image, where as an open neck shirt shows a flair of relaxation but its still upmarket.

Im old - 24!

[Sanx]

I'd like to think I have the rack

No comment :innocent:

[Kittyhawk]

No comment :innocent:

Can I sponge bath your bike!? Nice and slowly, pamper it too ahhahahahaha

[Sanx]

Can I sponge bath your bike!? Nice and slowly, pamper it too ahhahahahaha

Absolutely. The Blade's a dirty little thing right now and would sure appreciate a long slow polish.

[Kittyhawk]

Absolutely. The Blade's a dirty little thing right now and would sure appreciate a long slow polish.

Well it'd have to be a long session then :dodge:

[Disco Dan]

both my kwaka shafts need a good polishing too... i'll even take off my fairings so you can see the head... :shutup::innocent:

[ynot slow]

I think thre is a Happy Medium (as the saying goes.) To be ignored by a salesman is just as bad as a pushy one. I had been in sales for many years, and find that just a friendly "Hi" and "let me know if you want any help" seems to be the best way. That way your not in the customers face. and they feel more relaxed and more likely to buy.

Right on the money there,unfortunately every sales course I've been on they always ram down your throat that people come into buy everytime,and your job is to sell to them,I get pissed off if I'm looking and they keep pestering me,if I want help will ask what is so difficult to comprehend.The big jewellery store comes to mind,mind you he's more at home on his golf course,but was just looking at a couple of items,wife was also checking out a couple of rings,and although I said no to a ring($1895),sales lady was all for hp no interest,said no,she didn't/wouldn't stop,all I bought was a couple of earings and that was what we were looking for all along.I do like pissing them off in there though,was going to buy a $300 watch but sales guy was too pushy,in the end said to him that $300 was about the most I wanted to spend stop showing me ladies and gents watches,about $450 up,asked him what don't you understand mens ,$300,waterproof,best part was he was manager, and all the staff were having a laugh afterwards,had a coffee with one girl from the shop shortly after and she said to him he was too pushy.He had lost potential sales that day of over $2000 because of not listening to customers requests,either just looking or showing wrong product.

[Sanx]

Well it'd have to be a long session then :dodge:

I'm sure the bike's got the stamina ...

Anyway, I'll stop hijacking Frosty's thread now.

[Kittyhawk]

I'm sure the bike's got the stamina ...

Anyway, I'll stop hijacking Frosty's thread now.

Lol...:innocent: