Question about forks

[Spuds1234]

My father has a 77 Laverda 3CL. Its in pretty good nick but the dust seals on the forks have been held on with masking tape for a while now and he has finally gotten around to putting the new seals on.

He has run into a few issues though and he has asked me to post this on the "Laverda help thingy." Hes old fashioned and doesnt really understand the internets. Makes for some interesting conversations, however I waffle on. Here is his question.

"How easily should the damper assembly at the bottom of each fork leg move in the fork leg without the spring fitted? I had to drive the assembly out. I suspect this is not correct"

Any help would be appreciated in getting this classic bike back on the road.

[Coldrider]

Is that one of those 1000cc triples, jota or something, If you don't get a reply I know I guy who has what I have described, don't know if he has done fork work on it but I'll ask him. I can't imagine too many of those things being around.

[T.W.R]

The 3cl had Cerriani (sp?) forks if I remember rightly.
The separating the slider from the outer tube takes a bit of effort but shouldn't require excessive force.

also to replace the dust caps you needn't take the fork apart anyhow:nono:

[Spuds1234]

Yip. Its a thou alright.

Great bikes to ride. Pity there are no Laverda's being made now :(

It would be much appreciated if you could ask. I have a vested interest in the bike. I hope to one day inherit it lol.

My father says that the bike was on blocks before he bought it (it was imported from Italy and had done 10000 odd kms) and it is possible that the forks may have seized up or something at one stage or another. Since he has owned it, the forks have moved up and down, but not to any great benefit to the handling of the bike so he says. I didnt notice this when I rode it. It just like the bike was going to fall over around every corner. Its one heavy mofo.

[Spuds1234]

The 3cl had Cerriani (sp?) forks if I remember rightly.
The separating the slider from the outer tube takes a bit of effort but shouldn't require excessive force.

This sounds about right. He had to drop a broom handle down the forks and tap it out with a hammer.

So does that mean things are all normal and dandy then?

EDIT: Man you really know your bikes T.W.R Your correct. It does have Cerriani forks.

As for not having to take the forks apart to do replace the dust seal, I think he decided to take them apart because the bike is 30 years old and its never had any front end work done. Hell as far as I know it could have the original fork oil in. I doubt it though.

[T.W.R]

Since he has owned it, the forks have moved up and down, but not to any great benefit to the handling of the bike so he says. I didnt notice this when I rode it. It just like the bike was going to fall over around every corner. Its one heavy mofo.

:laugh: That's a Laverda for you :yes: even when set up properly they don't start working till excessive speeds are reached :shutup: they hate going slow, and at 520lbs and being fairly top heavy they take a bit to handle, this was the ultimate Bitch (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18273&d=1129879327) at anything legal :headbang:

[Spuds1234]

:laugh: That's a Laverda for you :yes: even when set up properly they don't start working till excessive speeds are reached :shutup: they hate going slow, and at 520lbs and being fairly top heavy they take a bit to handle, this was the ultimate Bitch (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18273&d=1129879327) at anything legal :headbang:

Heh that definatly sounds about right.

That pic is almost exactly like my Dads bike cept his in Laverda orange and has a custom built fairing on it.

They certainly are beautiful bikes and I nearly bought one for my first real bike. The only thing that stopped me was the fact that parts for them are next to impossible to find in NZ, and just to get the dust seals and some handle grips it cost 70 Canadian. Also right hand dice style fuel petcocks are rarer than hens teeth.

[T.W.R]

So does that mean things are all normal and dandy then?

EDIT: Man you really know your bikes T.W.R Your correct. It does have Cerriani forks.

As for not having to take the forks apart to do replace the dust seal, I think he decided to take them apart because the bike is 30 years old and its never had any front end work done. Hell as far as I know it could have the original fork oil in. I doubt it though.

without actually seeing the bike and the forks it may be just because they've never been a part.

check the link in the last post :yes:

best idea if there's any doubt on the service history is to check things thoroughly. mmm 30yr old fork oil yum:sick:

[T.W.R]

A lot of 3CLs came out in plain colours :yes: quite a few in flat green. there are a couple getting about in the area, 1 in Rolleston & another in Ashburton. my old girl lives in Oamaru now.
Getting parts was a right test back 15yrs ago so now would be a hell of a job finding things. most of the stuff I needed came ex-Australia at the time :yes:

[Spuds1234]

Yip. I found quite a few laverda sites from Aus.

All the Laverda stuff used to come into Christchurch via Eric Woods as they were the Laverda people at the time. My Dad still has a list of parts that they could get when he bought the bike printed out on about 20 pages of continuous paper that they used to use in the old Dot Matrix printers.

Also the Slater brothers over in England are still dicking around with Laverda's from what I hear.

[riffer]

30yr old fork oil yum:sick:

It's not the oil buddy. It's the shit in it...

but I think you may be right about them not being apart in yonks.

[T.W.R]

Yip. I found quite a few laverda sites from Aus.

All the Laverda stuff used to come into Christchurch via Eric Woods as they were the Laverda people at the time. My Dad still has a list of parts that they could get when he bought the bike printed out on about 20 pages of continuous paper that they used to use in the old Dot Matrix printers.

Also the Slater brothers over in England are still dicking around with Laverda's from what I hear.

Eric the Hood is where my one came from :yes: in boxes from upstairs :yes: for $8g and spent another $8-10g on it over a couple of years :innocent: went good though :niceone:

mmm Slater brothers ! Slater Brothers 120 JOTA :drool::drool::love:

[T.W.R]

It's not the oil buddy. It's the shit in it...


:second: the oil actually breaks down over time and collects the swarf from the continuous friction happening :yes:

[Spuds1234]

I have gotten a little more information about the problem that my Dad is having.

One of the dampers is moving up and down relatively easily inside the slider without a spring in fork, the other is quite stiff and very hard to move

This obviously isnt correct. What can he do to correct the stiffness in one of the forks? I suggested swapping parts over to see if that changed anything but he said that you have to keep the parts from each fork separate.

And the reason why he took the forks apart was because when he took the dust seals off, he found that some circlip or another was rusty so he had to replace those.

[Pussy]

TDC and Robert Taylor will hopefully chip in on this thread, and will no doubt have some answers for you.....

[Robert Taylor]

TDC and Robert Taylor will hopefully chip in on this thread, and will no doubt have some answers for you.....

I worked on quite a number of these gorgeous Italian stallions in the UK 25 years ago but never had any forks apart.

If someone else doesnt come forward with a plausible fix I would be happy to look at the exploded parts diagram.

[TDC]

TDC and Robert Taylor will hopefully chip in on this thread, and will no doubt have some answers for you.....

I too worked on a few of these (at the time objects of desire) bikes a long time ago.

The problem you are describing with the sticking fork leg is one I have seen before, that is if I remembering the right model forks!, but sounds about right.

The biggest problem with these forks as I remember them was the seals (main and dust) were prone to letting water in to the fork. There is a steel bushing with bronze coating at the top of the fork that the water gets in behind and starts to rust. As this progresses over a period of time the it significantly decreases the inside diameter if the top bushing. As a result the forks quickly wear through the chrome plating and start sticking at the top and very bottom of the stroke (where they have not worn off the chrome). I imagine that this bike has the same problems with different symptoms because of the time in storage.

The fix was quite difficult, firstly getting the forks apart with out causing more damage was / is quite challenging (it is VERY easy to break the retaining lip in the fork tube that holds the lower bush (don't ask how I found out!)), worse the aluminum that supports the top bushing had expanded due to the corrosion deforming the top of the slider, this meaning that a new bush was too loose in the fork slider.

Ultimately the forks were re-plated and ground to return the tubes to being parallel and the right diameter, the fork sliders were machined to take another bush from a different machine. The fork seals were replaced with Jap parts that actually work a bit better (read keep the water out) and are actually available for a price less than your first born son.

If doing this work now throwing the OEM progressive springs in the original parts bin and fitting emulators will deliver fork action that will be more in keeping with modern tyres. These bikes do not work well, on modern tyre constructions.

[Spuds1234]

I too worked on a few of these (at the time objects of desire) bikes a long time ago.

The problem you are describing with the sticking fork leg is one I have seen before, that is if I remembering the right model forks!, but sounds about right.

The biggest problem with these forks as I remember them was the seals (main and dust) were prone to letting water in to the fork. There is a steel bushing with bronze coating at the top of the fork that the water gets in behind and starts to rust. As this progresses over a period of time the it significantly decreases the inside diameter if the top bushing. As a result the forks quickly wear through the chrome plating and start sticking at the top and very bottom of the stroke (where they have not worn off the chrome). I imagine that this bike has the same problems with different symptoms because of the time in storage.

The fix was quite difficult, firstly getting the forks apart with out causing more damage was / is quite challenging (it is VERY easy to break the retaining lip in the fork tube that holds the lower bush (don't ask how I found out!)), worse the aluminum that supports the top bushing had expanded due to the corrosion deforming the top of the slider, this meaning that a new bush was too loose in the fork slider.

Ultimately the forks were re-plated and ground to return the tubes to being parallel and the right diameter, the fork sliders were machined to take another bush from a different machine. The fork seals were replaced with Jap parts that actually work a bit better (read keep the water out) and are actually available for a price less than your first born son.

If doing this work now throwing the OEM progressive springs in the original parts bin and fitting emulators will deliver fork action that will be more in keeping with modern tyres. These bikes do not work well, on modern tyre constructions.

Great post.

Fortunatly this isnt the problem.

The damper seems to be freeing up a bit, so Dad is going to bung it all back together and see how it goes.

Should be right he reckons.

Thanks guys for all the help. Its much appreciated.

[T.W.R]

When I had work done on my Mirage, Phil Payne did the the majority of the refurbishment of the forks and other bits :yes:
I don't know if Phil is still in ChCh working on bikes or not :scratch: I seem to remember hearing something about him heading back over to Europe, not sure though, he's a bit of a fickle character but know his stuff :Punk:
Head into Pitlane (Cycletreads) and have a talk to Don :yes: He may know where Phil is. As at the time when my work was done they were sharing a building on St Asaph Street, Don hadn't long started Pitlane & Phil wasn't long back from spanner twirling on the 500GP circuit :yes:

Oh :blip: something to drool over too :drool:

[desmo dave]

When I had work done on my Mirage, Phil Payne did the the majority of the refurbishment of the forks and other bits :yes:
I don't know if Phil is still in ChCh working on bikes or not :scratch: I seem to remember hearing something about him heading back over to Europe, not sure though, he's a bit of a fickle character but know his stuff :Punk:
Head into Pitlane (Cycletreads) and have a talk to Don :yes: He may know where Phil is. As at the time when my work was done they were sharing a building on St Asaph Street, Don hadn't long started Pitlane & Phil wasn't long back from spanner twirling on the 500GP circuit :yes:

Oh :blip: something to drool over too :drool:
last i heard he was over in the uk.He's the only guy ever to work on my darmah.That pic of your old laverda looks abit like darmah if you ignore the motor

[T.W.R]

last i heard he was over in the uk.He's the only guy ever to work on my darmah.That pic of your old laverda looks abit like darmah if you ignore the motor

I haven't seen Phil for ages :bye: heard something about him skipping over there but wasn't sure.
He's the only one to tinker on either the Mirage or the MHR :yes: he even used to swap parts of his RV1 onto the MHR when we were sorting it out :Punk: