Is clamping and towing theft?

[candor]

Bad bad experience today and I lost it. Never knew what my wheels meant to me.

Went to do shopping at my regular supermarket. First after parking I slipped across the road to bank to sort out a problem with my bent eftpos card.

Was there maybe twenty five minutes due to queue. Then back to supermarket, walked by my car and did my shop. It was a small one but I mucked around ages as was fatigued and slow to decide - especially on hair colour :yes:.

I come out to see my car clamped :gob:. The clamper (a young girl) does not accept I was a bona fide shopper and clearly thinks I had seen my car clamped then just gone in to make a small purchase as a way out of it!

Then she says its a hundred and fifty for release or if I can't raise that in two hours (which I couldn't as no family to hit up) then its three hundred cos they'll tow my car.

Next I felt myself get pumped and got loud and stroppy having explained my actions and still not getting anywhere. I'm feeling persecuted is the best word as I was a bona fide customer but now they want to steal my car - which I depend on as I live rural. Unfairly I think.

I feel like I'm almost out of my body (panic / adrenalin) and wish I was not being so confrontational, but something about this young tow girls calm firm approach really gets me.

Wasn't even aware of ninety minute limit and I'd say I've often exceeded it.

With current bills I'd prolly not see my car for a long time if ever (as don't they charge for storage). Bye bye car I'm thinking - prepare for a forty minute walk to the busstop thru hill country every time I want to go out I'm thinking.

Girl asks to see my receipt then judges I was not justified in being parked over the supermkts ninety minute limit for the amount I shopped for then sats she can't unclamp as "its already been entered / processed as a job anyway" (something like that).

So I go to the supermarket duty manager only slightly more calm. Me and the young tow chic get interviewed. Boss accepts I'm a genuine customer and commands release of my car. I'm accused of being abusive and aggressive(sad to say I was in - attitude tho I said nothing personal) and told it's on tape, its said by tow chic that is part why the tow chic did not spend more time talking and get my full story, as if she relented to everyone aggro she'd never get her job done.

I admit I was horrible and apologise (still feel guilty actually, as she just young and what a job)and they then ask if tow chic was professional so I say yes.

Now I know not everyone takes ninety minutes to spend bugger all so I can see why this tow girl was dubious.... but the fact is it was true...

and I had receipts from the last three weeks showing I regularly spend bugger all at the supermarket same day every week. I'm a shopper not a free parker!

Manager asks if she was professional and I must admit she was, very. She quite nicely then unclamps my car on mngers advice while I feel like crap for flippin out so.

So what is the legal situation I'm wondering - how can they justify clamping or threatening to tow shoppers who might go over ninety minute limits? To me this equates to straight out theft.

Why can people take your property and try levying any charge they like for return in this way? I'm owed thousands by a crook yet bailiffs won't touch his household effects unless I sign a waiver in case its stolen stuff etc!

[xwhatsit]

Well I have no idea -- IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer), but the impression I've always had from their little signs is this; the car park (carp ark?) is their property. They own it, yada yada, so they can evict trespassers and objects they own as well. The towing company is just a sub-contractor that they've authorised to do this work. It's like if somebody put their backpack on your driveway, you'd be well within your rights to pick it up and put it on the footpath.

The clamping I'm not sure about, though. Probably some kind of exception in the law for it, perhaps?

[Steam]

I've said it once, I'll say it again, handguns are the solution to EVERYTHING.

[MacD]

It's all to do with cows...

Distress damage feasant (http://www.ns.org.nz/13.html).

[Big Dog]

According to Target:
On Private Property they are able to charge a maximum of $150 Provided this is suitably sign posted.

Any land owner reserves the right to have a vehicle removed from their property.
They may only charge for this service where there was sufficient permanant signage and reasonable overtime has been extended.

In an unsignposted domicile for example this was 48 hours when a car was dumped on our lawn, blocking the driveway.
In a commercial premise the towies have advised me in the past that it is over by the posted time eg to get towed you need to park for 30 mins in a 15 min park.

On public roads different again. A parking warden can tow at 10 mins over meter.

[QMOTO]

Heaven help the sod if they clamp my car , I will be rude and abusive and I wont make an excuse for it. I will damage the clamp and I will change the tyre if possible. If the cops come I wont mind in the slightest, its a fucked situation and another one where money is again drained from the average NZr.
if Parking is a problem then there are other solutions besides clamping, its a rip.
The Clamping companies are seperate to the land owners business 9/10 times and they are like vultures looking for any excuse to clamp you to make money.

it aint the "kiwi way"

[MisterD]

...Angle Grinder Man.

[Skyryder]

Heaven help the sod if they clamp my car , I will be rude and abusive and I wont make an excuse for it. I will damage the clamp and I will change the tyre if possible. If the cops come I wont mind in the slightest, its a fucked situation and another one where money is again drained from the average NZr.
if Parking is a problem then there are other solutions besides clamping, its a rip.
The Clamping companies are seperate to the land owners business 9/10 times and they are like vultures looking for any excuse to clamp you to make money.

it aint the "kiwi way"


Sadly it is now. There's been cases where the clamps have been damaged in an effort to remove it and the car owner has had to come up with the dosh for a new clamp. Losing your cool you will never win. Candor did the right thing. Went to the mall manager with her reciept and the manager acted in the best interests of 'his/her' customer. That's the best part of her post.

Skyryder

[McJim]

Solution is to buy a clamp yourself and clamp the clampers car.

Tell 'em what ever they charge you for release you'll charge them so it'll be easier all round to just mutually release the clamps.

[avgas]

Car clamping is bullshit. It doesn't remove the car from the park that they are so desperate to empty.

[Morcs]

Some towy bastard stuck a clamp on Sanx's bike whilst it was outside my shop. We discussed politely with the warden about the various ways we could damage his clamp and so forth but wouldnt give. So we ended up picking the bike up and carrying it a whole 5 metres - off their property, so it didnt get towed...

[ManDownUnder]

Get in your car. Sit down. Lock the door.. stay there and ring for help.

They're going to drive off with you in the car? No. They'll need to call the cops which is a good thing...

Re the law I have no idea. But the practical reality is they're not going to tow you while you are in your car.

[MrMelon]

We once had an issue with a towie clamping my mate's car behind my place in town. He told us it'd be $150 to take the clamp off or he'd be back in an hour to tow it... Went down with an aluminium baseball bat while he was gone, smashed the padlock off and left him with a pile of broken wheel clamp bits to pick up when he returned. It was extremely satisfying watching from our 3rd floor window as he returned and threw a hissy upon his discovery.

[vifferman]

We had a car parked on the yellow line outside our house, and it was a hazard, as it's on a bend, and there wasn't much room between the car and the pedestrian island [wish someone would clamp that and have it towed....]
So, we rang the council, they sent two (2) parking wardens, who ticketed it, but wouldn't have it towed it because it "wasn't a traffic hazard".
This despite the fact that while they were talking to us, more than one vehicle went past the pedestrian island on the wrong side of the road...
:weird:

They said to ring them if it wasn't moved soon, so after an hour or so, we did, and I think they ticketed it again, but it stayed there till the owner came back.

A gurrl I worked with had a car parked on the footpath in front of their house (actually, in their hedge) and rang to have it towed as they thought it was abandoned, but it turned out to be owned by their neighbours and so they couldn't have it towed!

There's something fuktup with our rules'n'regulations when vehicles are allowed to be clamped/towed very quickly for the purpose of generating income, but not when they're illegally parked.

On a related note: It would be very easy to start a business stealing exotic cars: just buy a crappy used-Jap import truck, slap some bogus towing business signs on the sides, steal some number plates, then away you go. When I worked in Ponsonby, cars were towed left, right and centre, usually with alarms blaring, and no-one batted an eyelid. Perfect cover for a car-theft ring.

[SPman]

Some towy bastard stuck a clamp on Sanx's bike whilst it was outside my shop. We discussed politely with the warden about the various ways we could damage his clamp and so forth but wouldnt give. So we ended up picking the bike up and carrying it a whole 5 metres - off their property, so it didnt get towed...

How the fuck do you clamp a bike?
That's the first time I've heard of a bike being clamped (or towed, for that matter)

[Mekk]

I'm accused of being abusive and aggressive(sad to say I was in - attitude tho I said nothing personal) and told it's on tape, its said by tow chic that is part why the tow chic did not spend more time talking and get my full story, as if she relented to everyone aggro she'd never get her job done.



I'm pretty sure it's illegal to record someone without their permission. At least it is with recording telephone conversations. I can't see much difference here.

Anyway, try not to feel too bad. Everyone loses it at one time or another.

[Morcs]

How the fuck do you clamp a bike?
That's the first time I've heard of a bike being clamped (or towed, for that matter)

Clamp round one of the wheels...

they clamped 4 bikes there, and one got towed...

there was a fuck up with the signs tho, 2 different companies with the new company having just put up their ones whilst the others were still there.... we were telling them we'll give our money to the other company instead... just to piss them off...

[marty]

here's an idea. buy your own clamp. clamp your car when you go shopping. when the real clamp dude comes round he'll see the clamp and think it's already been done, so he'll ignore it!

remove your clamp when you get back, and drive away! simple!

[xwhatsit]

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to record someone without their permission. At least it is with recording telephone conversations. I can't see much difference here.

Anyway, try not to feel too bad. Everyone loses it at one time or another.
No, just telephones I think (not sure of the exact NZ rules). Everyday you're under the gaze of security cameras, ATM cameras, tourists' video cameras, and Big Dave's helmet cam.

Actually no, now I think of it, in NZ it's the audio bit which is illegal. Right? So shop security cams only record video, not audio -- I gave a hand with writing some software to interface with a DV security cam set-up, and they mentioned they would record audio but they can't. Wonder how that applies to Mr Miyazaki's videos from his bus-tour around the South Island?


here's an idea. buy your own clamp. clamp your car when you go shopping. when the real clamp dude comes round he'll see the clamp and think it's already been done, so he'll ignore it!

remove your clamp when you get back, and drive away! simple!
I like it, I like it a lot :D

<hints id="hah_hints"></hints>

[Timber020]

On a related note: It would be very easy to start a business stealing exotic cars: just buy a crappy used-Jap import truck, slap some bogus towing business signs on the sides, steal some number plates, then away you go. When I worked in Ponsonby, cars were towed left, right and centre, usually with alarms blaring, and no-one batted an eyelid. Perfect cover for a car-theft ring.[/QUOTE]

Already being done.

[davereid]

Get in your car. Sit down. Lock the door.. stay there and ring for help.

They're going to drive off with you in the car? No. They'll need to call the cops which is a good thing...

Re the law I have no idea. But the practical reality is they're not going to tow you while you are in your car.

You are right. They can't tow the vehicle with you in it.

I guess if you cut the clamp off they could chase you for the damage to it, but the onus of proof would be on them, it would be a civil case not simple deb collection, and maybe "clamp man" did it anyway !

[Mekk]

*words and sentences and stuff*

I had a look at the Privacy Act and found this:



Personal information shall not be collected by any agency unless---
(a) The information is collected for a lawful purpose connected with a
function or activity of the agency; and
(b) The collection of the information is necessary for that purpose.

When an agency collects personal information directly from the individual concerned, it must take reasonable steps to ensure the individual is aware of:

* the fact that the information is being collected;
* the purpose;
* the intended recipients;
* the names and addresses of who is collecting the information and who will hold it;
* any specific law governing provision of the information and whether provision is voluntary or mandatory;
* the consequences if all or any part of the requested information is not provided; and
* the individual’s rights of access to and correction of personal information.

These steps must be taken before the information is collected or, if this is not practical, as soon as possible after the information is collected.

Sorry about the long read!

Anyway, on that interpretation I would question why the girl would tape him as I don't see it being connected with a function or activity of the agency. Or is there something I have missed?

[xwhatsit]

Forgive me, as I stated earlier IANAL, but is the `personal information' they are talking about there a recording of their speech? The knee-jerk association I have with personal information is age, demographics, buying habits, all that kind of stuff the marketers lust after. Would an audio recording of somebody fall under personal information?

If that is the case, then yes, I'd say your dead right with the part about `function or activity'. An audio tape is not necessary to clamp and tow cars.

[Mekk]

No need for apology, I'm not either. I wasn't sure also, it was worth a look.


but is the `personal information' they are talking about there a recording of their speech?"

I questioned the definition too:


``Personal information'' means information about an identifiable individual; and includes information contained in any register
of deaths kept under the Births and Deaths Registration Act
1951:

I am guessing that information about an identifiable individual would include manner, tone of voice etc. Again though, I'm no lawyer either and don't know how that'd hold up in court.

[rwh]

Taxi companies etc routinely record phone calls. I think it's legit if at least one party knows it's being recorded. After all, it's merely an enhanced version of their own memory of the event.

Richard

[Mekk]

Taxi companies etc routinely record phone calls. I think it's legit if at least one party knows it's being recorded. After all, it's merely an enhanced version of their own memory of the event.

Richard

I would say that'd fall under:

(a) The information is collected for a lawful purpose connected with a
function or activity of the agency; and
(b) The collection of the information is necessary for that purpose.

I don't see the need for a clamper to carry a tape to record people though.

[Grahameeboy]

I was wondering, do you have to be licenced to clamp a car or can anyone do it.