Uni lecturer sacked

[caesius]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10456446

Some won't, but I side with the lecturer. He's stating the truth, albeit in the most direct way possible. He could have been a little more tackful in the spirit of keeping his job.

I'm a student. Not particularly racist (unless I'm debating with an idiot socialist about immegration - in that case I'm pure KKK just to piss 'em off), but this doesn't strike right with me.

Thoughts?

[Colapop]

Yes. I quite often think. It helps to occupy space in my head...

[jrandom]

I'm sure that the student in question was, in fact, an annoying and incompetent little raghead, but he should have maintained his professional approach as a lecturer and not pointed that out to her so bluntly.

[caesius]

Yes. I quite often think. It helps to occupy space in my head...

Me too!

So far people argee with me, according to a Herald poll. Yay.

[Pussy]

I'm on the side of the lecturer. In this PC world now you're not supposed to tell it like it is...... well, guess what?, in life there are winners and losers. The student needs to pull finger and get over it

[Colapop]

The question seems to be asked more often these days "Why are there so few quality graduates these days?"
It's because the standards required are being allowed to slip. It's supposed to be more difficult and slightly elitist, thats why there are higher levels of attainment required. It's the same reason why honourary doctorates should not be given out. An aging once was a rock star getting an honourary doctorate for 'services to music'? WTF is that?

Make it harder - force people to achieve higher standards. The overall level improves then.

[forkoil]

What seems a twist on the saga, is that the lecturer (Buchanan) apologised after and the student accepted the apology. But whether this was before or after she reported him? And looks as if the person who sacked him, he had argued with earlier as well, which obviously didnt help his case. There are implications of uni policy encouraging foreign fee payers to boost uni $ at the expense of lowered standards of entry for these students. (its not clear whether in fact her father HAD died or not, thats at the heart of his caustic email)

[Crisis management]

Like all these incidents wouldn't it be nice to be sure we have all the facts first?
An interview on National radio yesterday indicated the student had applied for the extension one day after the essay was due, not before and I note there has not been any corroborating (big word for the day) evidence of her fathers health.
Call me suspicuious, but I'm with the lecturer on this one.

[janno]

Sounds like the dean has used this as an excuse to get rid of someone they didn't like. My pa has been a lecturer for a couple of decades and said this sort of thing is not as uncommon as you think.

Also sounds like the lecturer is a curmudgeonly old sod who has high standards and short patience for fools. I really liked being taught by those types, as when you made the effort you got it back twofold, and praise from them was definitely earned, not given out like bonus toys in a packet of cornflakes.

I wonder if he'll get snapped up with glee by some other uni who can't believe their good luck??

Be interesting to see if a loyal group of his students will protest on his behalf, or if he was genuinely disliked . . .

[Lil_Byte]

I'm on the side of the lecturer on this one.

You should have to work for a degree and not expect it to be handed to you on a plate.

Also why should we need to be PC. I am sure the students country would not cater to our cultural beliefs as we seem to have to cater to theirs. :Punk:

[ManDownUnder]

Yes. I quite often think. It helps to occupy space in my head...

Me too - and putting my pants back help to quell them - and the swelling.

Re the lecturer... I like him. I think he handled this badly and if it's the only instance of suck behaviour then a smack on the hand and send him to the library for some research ought to do it.

If it's an everyday thing then I'd suggest you look at what he lectures on... he's a strategic analyst by trade. Something tells me he'd have fully predicted the fallout of what happened... and to that end I'd be asking "why did he do it?"

Watch this space - I have a feeling the poo hasn't all hit the fan... yet...

[caesius]

I really liked being taught by those types, as when you made the effort you got it back twofold, and praise from them was definitely earned, not given out like bonus toys in a packet of cornflakes.

I'm with you on that one. Slightly different matter, but one of my lectureres actually kicks people out of the lecture theatre for talking/texting etc - which actually means I can hear the lecture. Makes a change from lectures taught by "younger" people, you wouldn't believe but I've even seen someone take a phone call in a lecture.

Too many people see uni as a way to delay the reality of being an adult. Oops gone of topics.

I wish I was born in the 70's...

[xwhatsit]

Too many people see uni as a way to delay the reality of being an adult. Oops gone of topics.

<hints id="hah_hints"></hints>Hehehe yeah -- ain't it great? :yes:

Seriously though, I have friends who have taken classes taught by Buchanan. He's well known as a bit of a wanker. Not at all out of character for him to completely disregard the advice of the medical department (I'm assuming she applied for an aegrotat?), rightly or wrongly.

The circumstances don't really look very good for the student, especially how she applied a day after the assignment was due. Not a good idea even in undergraduate studies. However you can easily understand Morrow's position -- you don't want the sort of person who shoots their mouth of like that representing your university, much less your own (very small) department.

[Street Gerbil]

Marxist asshole of a teacher vs. slacker affirmative action student? My, for the sake of the quality of graduate education in NZ I hope the Uni expells both of them...

[KATWYN]

He's tired of "excuses" legit or not. So she coped it that day

[outlawtorn]

I am so sick of people getting into shit for telling it straight. This leturer must have heard thousands of dumb exscuses, some real some not, but I am fucking fed up with this political correctness bullshit, people in this day and age need to fucking wake up to the shit our parents and grandparents had to deal with, grow a set and carry on with life.

FUCK PC!

[Steam]

This whole thing has NOTHING to do with being PC, it's about respect.

If a lecturer said I couldn't have an extension "just because my father died" he'd soon find himself with a broken nose on the floor.
I'd take that assault charge and hold it high.
Family is everything; by disrespecting that "excuse" he disrespects my father. Nobody disrespects my family.
The lecturer is a bastard and deserved to go.

It has NOTHING to do with being PC, it's about respect.

[avgas]

I think the lecturer was just having a bad day.
but yes - uni is a bitch if you don't do the work. So i suggest the student picks up this challenge and attempts to pass.
As long as u finish within 8 years your fine.
Some lecturers are just cocks.

[Dilligaf]

I have been too nice and given you too high marks all along (at C+). I do not anticipate that you will do better in the final exercise. You are already a day late.

OKay this is my problem with the lecturer. The above quote is taken from the email.
My reply to this is to call bullshit. Sorry, you don't get to bitch AFTER the fact if you've been "too nice" before. Tough titties Mr Buchanan - you should have scored her at her appropriate level.
Smacks of passive aggressive behaviour which is a real red flag to me.

[Albino]

Has anyone determined if the father has actually died or whether the lecturer is right?

I did a post grad course at auckland uni recently. They need to realise that they can boost the numbers with sub-standard students if they like (this increases the funding for "real" uni work like research), but in doing so they are sacrificing the quality of the education and devaluing the University of Auckland brand in the process. Students should have to meet pre-requisite standards for any post graduate course - both knowledge and the communication medium (english).

I can imagine how frustrating this must be for lecturers (actually I know because I talked to some of them about it). It affects their work, their happiness in the job, and ultimately the students. How would you feel working for an institution that in your eyes has "sold out".

[Hitcher]

I think that Mr Lecturer is a dickhead. One would think/hope that somebody in his position would be more skilled at crafting emails and at least review them prior to hitting the "send" command. I detect an intellectual arrogance that seems to permeate from some academics.

Should he have been sacked? No.

[caesius]

I think that Mr Lecturer is a dickhead. One would think/hope that somebody in his position would be more skilled at crafting emails and at least review them prior to hitting the "send" command. I detect an intellectual arrogance that seems to permeate from some academics.

Should he have been sacked? No.

Yes OK I agree he could have been less of a dickhead. But maybe he just lost the plot because of having to deal with this on a regular basis/the very thing he is payed to do (and probably admires) is being degraded in front of him.

[Albino]

I think that Mr Lecturer is a dickhead.........I detect an intellectual arrogance that seems to permeate from some academics.

A lot of them are and most don't live in the real world, having never left a learning institution in their entire lives. Some go into politics aftewards :innocent:. The best lecturers I had were the part-timers that had real jobs and were able to relate the theory to the real world.
One would think/hope that somebody in his position would be more skilled at crafting emails and at least review them prior to hitting the "send" command.
True but how many of us have almost done the same.... There's certainly a few posts on KB where the submit button shouldnt have been pressed!

[Skyryder]

Not the sort of thing I would expect someone to be sacked for. A rap over the knuckles just to send the message that his email was out of line.

When it comes to family deaths I think the student should have been given the benifit of the doubt, just so the lecturer can cover his arse. But sacking the guy. That's just plain dumb. Hope he wins his claim. There's more to this than meets the eye.

Skyryder

[terbang]

An un-PC and insensitive walk sox and sandal wearer..! Sheesh, whats the world coming to.

[mynameis]

Most of you aren't taking a rational approach towards this and can only look beyond your noses. There are two sides of a coin and it must be considered before you draw conclusions.

1) The whole story of the student is legit.
2) The student lied about her father's death.

Either case think about how a lecturer or anyone with a little bit of common sense should deal with this. Only "Steam" seems to have got it right in my opinion.

Whether it was legit or not his comments and approach towards the student was definitely not acceptable at all. And he has given out a big spill to the media over the fact he deals with this on a regular basis, Uni is compromising it's standards and that he was having a bad day with colleagues, excuses in general.

And everyone seems to be shadowed over these issues instead of focusing on the main issue which is his comments to the student.

His comments were outright disgusting, revolting, and racist, demeaning towards basic humanity and of very insensitive nature. I am shocked and appalled at this and thank Auckland Uni for firing him.

This sort of behaviour should never be accepted in our Kiwi culture and should not be tolerated at all. It's one of the worst stages in one's life, losing a parent and Paul Buchanan’s attitude towards the poor student is extremely unprofessional and unethical.

[Animal]

Thoughts?

Hell no! I'm under-qualified!

[Albino]

I had to fire some one a couple of years ago. Anyone who has had to do this in NZ knows how hard it can be (by the book). This guy had an excuse for everything. By the end of the drawn out process if he had used the excuse of his father dying for not having finished some work I quite frankly wouldn't have believed him unless he was obviously in distress or on a plane flying back home for the funeral.

If you've always got an excuse for something then people stop believing you. It's human nature.

While I admit the lecturer did act stupidly, I must apologise for I do see a bigger issue in the story than one student being abused. I see an underlying problem of which this may have been a symptom.

[Grahameeboy]

This whole thing has NOTHING to do with being PC, it's about respect.

If a lecturer said I couldn't have an extension "just because my father died" he'd soon find himself with a broken nose on the floor.
I'd take that assault charge and hold it high.
Family is everything; by disrespecting that "excuse" he disrespects my father. Nobody disrespects my family.
The lecturer is a bastard and deserved to go.

It has NOTHING to do with being PC, it's about respect.

I read the e-mail on the front page of the Herald and bad day or not what he said was way out of order...he was asking for proof of the Father's death etc.

Yep maybe the student was crap, however, does not give Mr B an reason to write the e-mail in the manner he did.

I am sure he will not be short of a job and maybe he did it for a reason...given that he is an expert at 'Strategy'

[Clockwork]

If the student had lied about her Father's death it would take some balls to complain about the response.

[mark247]

I agree people should at least know the language of the country before trying to study there etc etc,

But not giving a student an extention because her father died, thats just bullshit.

That lecturer deserves a smack in the face.

[Magua]

Sounds like a bit of an arsehole, but one strike you're out?

[Hitcher]

Obviously Mr Congeniality had previously ruffled a few feathers higher up the food chain.

[xwhatsit]

Obviously Mr Congeniality had previously ruffled a few feathers higher up the food chain.

Well his ex-department ain't exactly the Science or Arts faculty. They have one very small building to themselves -- it's one of the ex-cottages on Symonds St amongst the trees. Not many people in the department, typical academic story; any stirring of the pot and he was bound to get a taste of his own political medicine.

I'd say he's also fairly expendable, too. They'll fill his spot pretty quickly I should think.

Never mind all the racist stuff -- I know a good chunk of the members on KB are closet mosque-burners, so nobody will make any headway there -- but what the geezer wrote was out of line, no matter what their academic performance or language skills. If he didn't believe the fact her father was dead, then he first should've gone to the medical chaps who passed her aegrotat and disputed it with them.

I'm quite interested about what will happen in the future to him, and to papers that he's written or will write. I've never done any political science stuff at uni, but in studying a philosophy course last year the lecturer spoke about a researcher's studies. She spoke about what he'd written and produced, and then went on to mention that a lot of his research is viewed with some caution in the academic world as after his death it was found that he'd abused his wife (or something like that, I forget now). This was directly relevant to what he had espoused during his lifetime, so it cast his papers in a different light.

If this Buchanan bloke starts carrying on in a fairly racist manner (I know all you guys are cheering him on for it, but in the academic world you don't talk like that), how's that going to affect the way his studies are seen? I mean, he is in political science, which one would think (right now) has a lot to do with Islam and the middle-east and all that kind of lark. The news has probably `gone global' by now and I should think any paper with his name on it will be carefully examined from now on.

[insane1]

what"s the problem he told it how he saw it case closed to many students try to take the easy way out well tough shit hope he sues the uni will it happen wait and see.

[u4ea]

I'm on the side of the lecturer on this one.

You should have to work for a degree and not expect it to be handed to you on a plate.

Also why should we need to be PC. I am sure the students country would not cater to our cultural beliefs as we seem to have to cater to theirs. :Punk:

My sis is attending uni and she says theres a huge problem with asian students cheating!!! So the tutors are changing the way they do things to catch them out.
And I dont know of any other country which is as culterally sensitive as NZ..

[Grahameeboy]

My sis is attending uni and she says theres a huge problem with asian students cheating!!! So the tutors are changing the way they do things to catch them out.
And I dont know of any other country which is as culterally sensitive as NZ..

When did NZ start becoming culturally sensitive??

[jonbuoy]

My sis is attending uni and she says theres a huge problem with asian students cheating!!! So the tutors are changing the way they do things to catch them out.
And I dont know of any other country which is as culterally sensitive as NZ..

You have to be kidding - sensitive? You want to see PC touchy feely gone mad try the UK/Europe. WTF has her being a muslim got to do with her father dying/late assignment?

[Grahameeboy]

You have to be kidding - sensitive? You want to see PC touchy feely gone mad try the UK/Europe. WTF has her being a muslim got to do with her father dying/late assignment?

Agree.....The Land of the Long Dream Cloud...........

[Albino]

One of the better arguments that I've seen from the Herald feedback pages:

As a student you are informed of all rules and regulations in the first class of every paper taken.My view, if this student's father had been sick for a period of time and was causing her trauma, then the extension should have been requested prior to the due date. Had the student's father been killed by a bus while crossing the street(for example)the day before the assignment was due, then shouldn't she have already had her assignment completed and ready to hand in? The choice to study at university level brings with it many responsibilities. You are there because you want to be, and you have been privileged enough to be accepted. One is not spoon-fed. One's talents are not nurtured by lecturers. You are there to study, and it is up to the individual to decide the effort they wish to put in to their work. If you can't manage your time or ability then it is no-one else's problem but yours
- source http://www.nzherald.co.nz/feature/story.cfm?c_id=1501154&objectid=10456458

[90s]

I think that Mr Lecturer is a dickhead. One would think/hope that somebody in his position would be more skilled at crafting emails and at least review them prior to hitting the "send" command. I detect an intellectual arrogance that seems to permeate from some academics.

Should he have been sacked? No.

I agree with much that has been said here, but another nail in the guys coffin is that he complained the students were "very badly underperforming", ie. double negative, they were in fact doing rather well.

Now I know in Spanish (which he would be familiar with, you would think) double negatives don't apply, but English?

Sorry, you're outta here.

[90s]

I agree with much that has been said here, but another nail in the guys coffin is that he complained the students were "very badly underperforming", ie. double negative, they were in fact doing rather well.

Now I know in Spanish (which he would be familiar with, you would think) double negatives don't apply, but English?

Sorry, you're outta here.

This might also be an example of intellectual arrogance? :zzzz:

[Swoop]

...there's a huge problem with asian students cheating!!!
That is an understatement.
They are not even smart or subtle when doing it, either.:nono:

[caesius]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10456922

New information.

He was sympathetic to the idiot, even answering her questions like:

"Please can you illustrate further what does bibliographic essay? Should I do the essay on a topic which interests me?" [sic]

[Skyryder]

New information.

He was sympathetic to the idiot, even answering her questions like:

"Please can you illustrate further what does bibliographic essay? Should I do the essay on a topic which interests me?" [sic]

Yes and he instructed her in the appropiate manner of the correct procedure in how she can gain an extension for bereavement purposes.

Seems like he acted all fair and above board to me.

Skyryder

[Beemer]

I think the big problem is the way he worded his response. If he had set it out professionally and pretty much said the same but in a respectful way, there wouldn't be such an outcry. He may well have lazy students who turn in assignments late all the time and not do a very good job, but all he needed to do in this case - if she really did apply for the extension a day AFTER the assignment was due - is to say he was sorry but extensions need to be applied for in advance of the due date and under no circumstances could he allow an extension. If she still had a problem with that, she could write in and ask for a reconsideration.

I got an extension on my assignment which was due 3 August. The textbooks for the course were not available for a couple of weeks after the papers started and the ones I had out from the library were recalled only a week after I got them, so I was a bit worried about getting the assignment done in time. My tutor actually offered an extension and I took up that offer - but I handed it in on 6 August so I only took advantage of the weekend to finish it, I didn't wait until the end of the week he'd allowed and then moan I still hadn't done it.

Although I still think he went about it the wrong way, I wish people would realise university study isn't a right, it's a privilege. If you aren't good enough and can't keep up with the workload, you don't deserve to be there. That goes for whatever your ethnicity or background.

When I was completing my initial journalism studies there were several people on the course who needed a kick up the arse. All of them were young and on the day one assignment was due one of them asked the tutor if she had to hand it in today. He said yes, but he could give her another day if she wasn't finished - how much had she done? Her answer? Oh, I haven't started it yet. We'd had three weeks to do it and she hadn't even started it by the day it was due! And she got an extension! My current course material states that an extension will only be granted in the case of an emergency and if it is supported by a doctor's certificate or other evidence - and that it must be applied for before the due date. I bet this student would also have been aware of this.