Bikes getting tickets in Wellington (8 August)

[Kendog]

If you are parked on the footpath on Boulcott Street you may be getting a ticket at the moment.

[Nasty]

Hmmm ... they are out having fun today .... and the lovely thing is they make sure that the bikes get them by using a rubber band onto the handlebar.

[Toaster]

Has there been any more news down there of the money hungry council bringing in paid parking for bikers - or did that get quashed?

[mattimeo]

Thats ONE thing in favour of Palmerston North, they certainly have plenty of free motorcycle parking.

[Kittyhawk]

Id hate to think what itd be like in Akl if they brought that law about up here!

[avgas]

Id hate to think what itd be like in Akl if they brought that law about up here!
I'd have a reason to do burnouts again

[James Deuce]

Well duh! Park on the footpath and get a ticket. Who'd have thought that could happen?

Evil Council bastards.

[Kendog]

Well duh! Park on the footpath and get a ticket. Who'd have thought that could happen?

Evil Council bastards.


There are 15 to 20 bikes parked on the footpath there every day, cause there is only one measly bike park for about two bike down the road.

I have seen the meter person walk by plenty of times without incident.

Some consistency would be nice, either you can park there or you can't.

[Maha]

Id hate to think what itd be like in Akl if they brought that law about up here!

Is parking on the footpath Legal in Muckland Thrushie?....(opps i spelt Auckland wrong :innocent:)

[Kittyhawk]

Is parking on the footpath Legal in Muckland Thrushie?....(opps i spelt Auckland wrong :innocent:)


To be honest I dont know,.....I always park on the footpath. And its usually right outside the door of the store Im going into lol!

Nuts to cage drivers, spend more time in traffic jams or trying to find a park than completing what ever the mission may be.

[bull]

I have seen the meter person walk by plenty of times without incident.

Some consistency would be nice, either you can park there or you can't.

Consider those days as lucky then, just like speeding, most of the time you can be lucky and get away with it, but once youre pulled over it is noted as an offence.

Biggest issue here is lack of bike parks so maybe a photo of all the bikes there, and labled for each day may help get a bigger bike park added to the immediate area.

[Kendog]

Consider those days as lucky then

Whats even luckier is I moved buildings last week so no longer park on the footpath there.
I now park in an actual bike park that gets so full after I arrive, that others end up parking on the footpath around it.

[xwhatsit]

Has anybody ever got ticketed for parking on the footpath in Auckland? My bike is garaged while it is at home, but I commute at least 6 days and when I do the bike is always parked on the footpath. Have never had any troubles doing that.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

If you are parked on the footpath on Boulcott Street you may be getting a ticket at the moment.

Should organise 100 bikes to park leaglly on the road each taking up one car space.

[MD]

Sorry people but it was only a matter of time. That bend on Boulcott St has been gathering more and more bikes over the last couple of years. Similar to the ANZ bike park overflowing. I wouldn't be surprised if some pedestrians complained and that's why the Council had to act. Nope correction, the Council is a money hunger monster that spotted a cash cow. Your efforts to reduce congestion, conserve the planets oil and reduce pollution are viewed as selfish behaviour because you avoid petrol taxes.

[Slingshot]

I use to park there a couple of years back...when there were only a handful of bikes parking on the footpath. I got one ticket for $40 in about 9 months so I considered it cheap parking.

Now I'm lucky and have a spot in the basement carpark of our building that only costs $20 p/m.

[merv]

If only our powers that be thought like they do in Melbourne.

Remember my earlier threads?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=297

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=39491

[BMW]

I like Melbourne as bikers are allowed to park on the foot path as long as it is not slowing down foot traffic.

[Kendog]

Melbourne rocks for motorbikes.

[merv]

Melbourne rocks for motorbikes.


.... and shopping eh, even if the Mrs is tailing along!!

Still don't think I'd like those tram tracks in the rain.

[mdooher]

Should organise 100 bikes to park leaglly on the road each taking up one car space.

happened in Dunedin about 25 years ago. Bikes filled all the carparks on George St on Saturday morning......from memory by Tuesday they had motorcycle parks a plenty:rockon:

[Kendog]

.... and shopping eh, even if the Mrs is tailing along!!

Sharing a passion for bikes helps, got to go to all the bike shops there :yes:
Unfortunately I don't share a passion for high heels, so all the shoe shops was a little but much :zzzz:

[merv]

Yeah Nige just remember you saying you bought more than her.

[Kendog]

Yeah Nige just remember you saying you bought more than her.

I hope your not suggesting I bought more high heels :lol:

[merv]

You would have only bought good bargain priced ones though eh!

[Grub]

Well duh! Park on the footpath and get a ticket. Who'd have thought that could happen?

Well in the State of Victoria (i.e. Melbourne), they allow & expect for you to park on the footpaths, so it's not that silly at all

[bounce]

If you are parked on the footpath on Boulcott Street you may be getting a ticket at the moment.

cheers for that. I was actually thinking of putting my bike up there when the park I use is too full,. Guess it's not a good idea then.
Hey I've only been riding less than a year so I don't really know - but is it going to be nuts trying to find a park in a few months when all the fine weather riders come out to play? Parks already seem overloaded in a number of spots.

[Aerox50]

Mopeds/scooters are allowed to park on the footpath as long as it is not blocking the footpath

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-other-road-users/information-for-moped-riders.html


* You must not leave a moped blocking the footpath.

[Kendog]

Mopeds/scooters are allowed to park on the footpath as long as it is not blocking the footpath

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-other-road-users/information-for-moped-riders.html

So how do we get the mopeds to move onto the footpath so bikes can have the bike parks.

Actually, what is the difference other than a bike may be a little bit bigger. Surely the same rule of not blocking the footpath should apply.

[Aerox50]

So how do we get the mopeds to move onto the footpath so bikes can have the bike parks.

Actually, what is the difference other than a bike may be a little bit bigger. Surely the same rule of not blocking the footpath should apply.

Common sense would say the same rule applies. but it doesn't :(
Maybe start letting the moped riders at the motorbike parks know this law :)

[Kendog]

Well I just sent the following email to land transport. Probably won't do any good but no harm asking:

Hello there,

I am noticing an incredible lack of motorcycle parks in Wellington city lately. This is only going to get worse in a couple of months as summer riding kicks in.

Surely the encouragement of motorbikes to ease congestion and improve environmental conditions is seen as a good thing.

Your website indicates mopeds/scoters can park on footpaths as long as "You must not leave a moped blocking the footpath." Why does the same rule not apply to motorbikes? Having recently come from Melbourne it seems strange we don't do the same here.

There is already talk of organised days where bikers park their bikes in car parks early in the morning, to promote visibility of our situation. I can easily see 70 to 80 parks used up all at once in the CBD which I am sure you will agree would not go down well.

Regards

Nigel

[Aerox50]

They better not change our moped law because of you :bye:

:lol:

[megageoff76]

cheers for that. I was actually thinking of putting my bike up there when the park I use is too full,. Guess it's not a good idea then.
Hey I've only been riding less than a year so I don't really know - but is it going to be nuts trying to find a park in a few months when all the fine weather riders come out to play? Parks already seem overloaded in a number of spots.


Damn right mate. I guess we will just get to work a bit earlier than everyone else in the next few months.

[Kendog]

They better not change our moped law because of you :bye:

:lol:

You know you want a real bike :scooter:

[sinned]

In Wellington a motorcycle cannot be parked on a park covered by a multiple meter and that covers many parks.

18.6.5 No person shall park a motorcycle in any parking meter area controlled by a multiple parking meter, other than in any part specifically set aside for motorcycles.


You can park on a single metered park:
# No driver of a vehicle shall park it in a parking space which is already occupied by another vehicle, provided that more than one motor cycle may be parked in a parking space.
# Where more than one motorcycle occupies a parking space only one parking fee for any authorised period shall be required. However, no motorcycle shall remain parked in the parking space while the parking meter placed at that parking space shows the authorised period has expired.

[Aerox50]

You know you want a real bike :scooter:

Not if I cant park anywhere I want :innocent:

I'll be happier once my upgrades are done, but the sound powered scooter is doing OK for now :) :Punk: :Punk:

[Kendog]

In Wellington a motorcycle cannot be parked on a park covered by a multiple meter and that covers many parks.

18.6.5 No person shall park a motorcycle in any parking meter area controlled by a multiple parking meter, other than in any part specifically set aside for motorcycles.


You can park on a single metered park:
# No driver of a vehicle shall park it in a parking space which is already occupied by another vehicle, provided that more than one motor cycle may be parked in a parking space.
# Where more than one motorcycle occupies a parking space only one parking fee for any authorised period shall be required. However, no motorcycle shall remain parked in the parking space while the parking meter placed at that parking space shows the authorised period has expired.

Damn, I don't think there are many single meter parks in the city now. In fact there may not be any.

[sinned]

I can see the need for a campaign for lots more bike parks based on that blatant discrimination against motorcycles and lovely economical little scooters.

[James Deuce]

Well in the State of Victoria (i.e. Melbourne), they allow & expect for you to park on the footpaths, so it's not that silly at all

I don't follow you. We live in Wellington NZ, not the State of Victoria, Australia. Doesn't matter how sensible parking on the footpath could be in Victoria, when you get a ticket for it in Wellington.

[bounce]

Mopeds/scooters are allowed to park on the footpath as long as it is not blocking the footpath

* You must not leave a moped blocking the footpath



hmm, I'm not convinced that the wording there provides immunity from wardens, I'm sure they could counter that if a moped is on a footpath at all then it is blocking part of it and still worth a ticket.

[Aerox50]

hmm, I'm not convinced that the wording there provides immunity from wardens, I'm sure they could counter that if a moped is on a footpath at all then it is blocking part of it and still worth a ticket.

Wardens (in wellington anyway) have to take photos of things like this, cars parked on yellow lines, etc. its built into their ticketing devices.
Had a warden ask me to move my car back a bit while I was waiting in it behind a car parked on yellow lines that he was ticketing. So I wasn't in the photo. :yes:

So you would actually have to be decently blocking a footpath for it to not be contestable. If you get back to your scoot and find a ticket, take your own pic with mobile phone :)

[Wannabiker]

Used to park there on the corner when I was working at Tourism house. The footpath gets wider on the outside of the corner, so in effect the footpath was still normal width, and there was a nice sturdy pipe fence to chain bike to if needed.Bikes were always parked indian file so as not to occupy too much room. There was also a line of bikes parked indian file hard up against the gardens on the inside of the corner, which were facing uphill and natrually leant away from the footpath so the obstruction was minimal. Methinks the council a little precious on this one and a bad judgement call.

[ceebie13]

Unfortunately I don't share a passion for high heels

You bloody liar! Ive seen you in your stilettos at that cross-dressers' conference we went to.

[Kendog]

You bloody liar! Ive seen you in your stilettos at that cross-dressers' conference we went to.

What happens on conference stays on conference.

[nudemetalz]

Who did you attention your letter to, Kendog ?

Just that, I work with the WCC person who looks after bike parks. It is something I have been campaigning for, for a long time now.
He asked me to give him a list of all of the bike parks, which I did. I have told him about the Panama Street "issue" for sure.

[pete376403]

In Wellington a motorcycle cannot be parked on a park covered by a multiple meter and that covers many parks.

18.6.5 No person shall park a motorcycle in any parking meter area controlled by a multiple parking meter, other than in any part specifically set aside for motorcycles....
That is, pay and display areas? Pretty much covers most of the CBD. WTF not? If I pay the fee, am I not renting that piece of ground for the period covered, no matter what I park on it?

[Kendog]

I didn't address it to anyone in particular. I just clicked on the contact us email link and typed away.

[rwh]

That is, pay and display areas? Pretty much covers most of the CBD. WTF not? If I pay the fee, am I not renting that piece of ground for the period covered, no matter what I park on it?

My guess: because it saves all the whinging about "but I can't display the ticket on my dashboard because it might blow away or someone might steal it!" And I can't see any other way to solve that problem.

Mind you, the same would apply to roofless cars.

Richard

[James Deuce]

Rubber band. Handlebar. Works well.

[sinned]

A rubber band may well work. However, the parking bylaw says no motorcycles. I am all for starting a bit of a campaign to get enough parks so the rule against taking a car spot is irrelevant. Is anyone interested?

[James Deuce]

I'm aware of that Dennis.

[fireliv]

I kinda understand it.....I mean it depends where on the footpath you park, as long as pedsetrians can get by its ok, but if its blocking them then you are kinds asking for trouble. Plus the more bikes that do it the more complaints you will get......
Welly has way more/bigger bike parks than chch

[rwh]

Rubber band. Handlebar. Works well.


To stop someone stealing it? They'll just take the rubber band as well.

Richard

[cindymay]

I have had trouble finding a park in Wellington as I arrive late. All are full so yes more parks are needed.

My bike doesn't have a rubber band.

[merv]

My bike doesn't have a rubber band.

So its not a rubber Bandit then :rolleyes: ?

[Cave Cleaner]

If you want bike parking in the CBD, you can park free of charge in the James Smith carpark in Wakefield Street, next to the Duxton Hotel. Check it out..AND it's under cover..

[rphenix]

I was in melbourne the other week and noticed everyone parks on the footpath! saw one bike in particular was so far from the edge everyone was having to walk around it half suprised it wasnt kicked over by some angry ped!

[pete376403]

I emailed the WCC on Friday evening with pretty much the same query as I posted here ie can bikes park in pay & display areas. Got a response today from a PR type person saying my query had been directed to the parking division and I can expect an answer in 10-15 days. I also asked how many dedicated bike parks there are and how many bikes they consider can be parked in each space.

[joehannaa]

Would be keen to know the outcome from your enquiry. Look forward to an update in..... 10 to 15 days... hopeful???

[pete376403]

Well it took a bit longer than the promised 10-15 days, and only required one reminder from me, but here is the response, recieved this morning:

Thank you for your email regarding motorcycle parking in Wellington city and apologies for the delay in our reponse.

In response to your queries:

1. Regarding Clause 18.6.5 of the Consolidated Bylaw 1991 (Part 18 Traffic).

This refers to parking at multiple parking meters such as the Pay and Display machines. Users of P&D machines are required to display the receipts in a prominent location on the vehicle, usually on the dashboard. There are no secure places on a typical motorcycle where a receipt can be displayed without fear of being blown off, damaged by rain, or even stolen. Enforcement will definitely be a concern.
On the other hand, there are other parking options available to motorcyclists. A car parking space controlled by a single parking meter can be used although a fee is required and a time restriction applies. Some car park buildings have spaces which can't be used by other vehicles. Most don't require payment and have no time restrictions. An example of this is in the James Smith's car park under the vehicle exit ramp.

2. List of areas set aside for motorcycle parking in the CBD.

Wellington has motorcycle parking in streets such as Lambton Quay, Featherston, Ballance, Mercer, Johnston, The Terrace, Grey, Vivian, among others. Unfortunately, at this time, we are unable to provide you a complete list due the ongoing changes happening in the city. In the future, we can create a map of these areas that will be made available to the public.

3. Anti-motorcycle stance of the WCC

In New Zealand there are approximately 36,000 registered motorcycles compared to 2.5 million other vehicles. This is a ratio of one motorcycle for every 70 vehicles. Based on the same proportion of parks for motorcycles as for other vehicles, the city could need to provide one motorcycle park to every 70 on-street car parks. Our Parking Services database shows there are approximately 2500 on-street parking spaces in the CBD. Based on the proportions above, 36 motorcycle spaces in the CBD would represent a 70:1 ratio. We are confident a quick count of our motorcycle spaces would exceed 36 by a considerable margin. Therefore proportionately the city is providing more than adequate parking for motorcycles.

Secondly, Wellington on-street car parks have fees and time restrictions leading to turnover of spaces. The city collects more than $10 million a year from on-street parking meters. However, motorcycle parking is free, there are no time restrictions and turnover of parking spaces is low. In fact, an initial investigation on imposing fees for motorbike parking did not get the support from the Councillors.

Finally, the Council's Infrastructure Unit proactively looks for areas in the city where motorcycle parks can be established in road spaces that are not big enough for a vehicle.


We hope that we have answered your queries regarding motorcycle parking in the Wellington CBD area. Please let us know if you have further clarifications on the matter.


Thank you.


Orencio Gueco
Property and Parking Services
Wellington City Council
101 Wakefield Street
Wellington

Phone: 04-8038287
Fax: 04-8013002

[Trudes]

Obviously written by someone who hasn't had to try and park a motorcycle in the city lately!!!
I bet they aren't taking into account all the scooters that park in the motorcycle parks either.
Good on you for trying though!!:niceone:

[Grub]

In New Zealand there are approximately 36,000 registered motorcycles ...

From LTNZ Statistics http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/statistics/motor-vehicle-registration/2006/table-39.html

Total fleet by Vehicle type to 30 June 2006
================================
1 Mopeds (under 60cc) 21,000
2 Trailers/Caravans 542,316
3 Tractors 35,240
4 Agricultural machines 1,526
5 Non-highway trailers 1,160
6 Mobile machines 14,364
7 Passenger cars/vans 2,702,485
8 Goods vans/trucks/utilities 493,910
9 Buses 18,854
10 Motor caravans 21,781
11 Motorcycles 83,904
12 ATVs 3,691
13 Special purpose vehicles 2,360
=========================
Total 3,942,591

The point is probably well made by the WCC regarding the proportions although one set of discovered porkies might mean there are others about how many parks are provided

Oh and By The Way ... 11.57% of registered bikes (9,707) are ridden by KB Members!!! :rockon:

[Sanx]

From LTNZ Statistics http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/statistics/motor-vehicle-registration/2006/table-39.html

Total fleet by Vehicle type to 30 June 2006
================================
1 Mopeds (under 60cc) 21,000
2 Trailers/Caravans 542,316
3 Tractors 35,240
4 Agricultural machines 1,526
5 Non-highway trailers 1,160
6 Mobile machines 14,364
7 Passenger cars/vans 2,702,485
8 Goods vans/trucks/utilities 493,910
9 Buses 18,854
10 Motor caravans 21,781
11 Motorcycles 83,904
12 ATVs 3,691
13 Special purpose vehicles 2,360
=========================
Total 3,942,591

The point is probably well made by the WCC regarding the proportions although one set of discovered porkies might mean there are others about how many parks are provided

For the mathematically challenged, the total number of mopeds and motorcycles is 104904, approximately 3.8% of the car 'population'. Yes, there are other vehicles but city parking spaces aren't for buses, trucks, tractors and ATVs. So, assuming their figure of 7000 car parks is correct, they should be supplying 266 motorbike parking spaces. How much room does it take the park 266 bikes? Well, assuming the average dimensions of a bike is approximately 2m * 0.75m. Allow 50cm extra width for stand-induced lean and you've got a requirement of 2.5 sq m per bike. So 665 sq m for 266 bikes.

Going by the average dimensions of the car parks in the building I'm in, each car requires 12.5 sq m. Multiply by 7000 and you get 87500 sq m reserved for cage parking. If WCC gave bikes 3.8% of that, you'd 3500 sq m for bikes, which means we could park 1330 bikes. Either way, WCC's figures are massively off and it should be pointed out to the clown that wrote the letter.

[Angusdog]

Since they admit they don't know how many m/c parks there are, let's just go "hog wild" and make some more. Bit of paint and a plastic sign, job done.

Nice calculations, by the way.

[Grub]

WCC's figures are massively off and it should be pointed out to the clown that wrote the letter.

Nice one Sanx, the letter writer's email will be Orencio.Gueco@wcc.govt.nz .... Oh OK then .... sent ...






3. Anti-motorcycle stance of the WCC
In New Zealand there are approximately 36,000 registered motorcycles compared to 2.5 million other vehicles. This is a ratio of one motorcycle for every 70 vehicles. Based on the same proportion of parks for motorcycles as for other vehicles, the city could need to provide one motorcycle park to every 70 on-street car parks. Our Parking Services database shows there are approximately 2500 on-street parking spaces in the CBD. Based on the proportions above, 36 motorcycle spaces in the CBD would represent a 70:1 ratio. We are confident a quick count of our motorcycle spaces would exceed 36 by a considerable margin. Therefore proportionately the city is providing more than adequate parking for motorcycles.

From LTNZ Statistics http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/sta.../table-39.html

Total fleet by Vehicle type to 30 June 2006
================================
1 Mopeds (under 60cc) 21,000
2 Trailers/Caravans 542,316
3 Tractors 35,240
4 Agricultural machines 1,526
5 Non-highway trailers 1,160
6 Mobile machines 14,364
7 Passenger cars/vans 2,702,485
8 Goods vans/trucks/utilities 493,910
9 Buses 18,854
10 Motor caravans 21,781
11 Motorcycles (over 60cc) 83,904
12 ATVs 3,691
13 Special purpose vehicles 2,360
=========================
Total 3,942,591

For the mathematically challenged, the total number of mopeds and motorcycles is 104904, approximately 3.8% of the car 'population'. Yes, there are other vehicles but city parking spaces aren't for buses, trucks, tractors and ATVs. So, assuming their figure of 7000 car parks is correct, they should be supplying 266 motorbike parking spaces. How much room does it take the park 266 bikes? Well, assuming the average dimensions of a bike is approximately 2m * 0.75m. Allow 50cm extra width for stand-induced lean and you've got a requirement of 2.5 sq m per bike. So 665 sq m for 266 bikes.

Going by the average dimensions of the car parks in the building I'm in, each car requires 12.5 sq m. Multiply by 7000 and you get 87500 sq m reserved for cage parking. If WCC gave bikes 3.8% of that, you'd 3500 sq m for bikes, which means we could park 1330 bikes. Either way, WCC's figures are massively off and it should be pointed out to the Council.

[Matt]

That's a pretty good response tbh from the council :gob:

[Renegade]

you guys can count me in if were going on a crusade to stick it to the man, i got stung $40 the other week, fuckers, they get $10 million a year from paid parking and their still out there dishing out tickets, fuckers!!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry2: :2guns:

[_intense_]

at least if those evil parking fascists were CONSISTANT evil parking fascists, we would know if we were safe when parked up, and im sure the bike was thoughtfully parked so as to not block access, that always my priority when doing a footpth park up.

[_intense_]

Since they admit they don't know how many m/c parks there are, let's just go "hog wild" and make some more. Bit of paint and a plastic sign, job done.


Fk yes. where and when, oh and pricks that park in mc spaces (opposite l'Affare)
fk em all

[davereid]

Orencio.Gueco

Pretty clearly the mans maths is as hopeless as his name.

I'll dash off an email tomorrow helping him add.

I'm also tempted to help him with a more appropriate name.. but I promise to avoid the temptation.