On again, off again :rant:

[Artifice]

ok i finally get my bike in working order an warranted rego'd...
then the bike dies over the other side of the hills. running on 3 backfiring dieing over 8krpm... flat battery. its an electrical fault. bugger! maybe my next bike will be a bit mor reliable.

[F5 Dave]

Sounds like charging system, kinda common on old suzis I’m afraid. In no particular order the Rectifier/Regulator dies. The system then has to deal with un controlled voltage which may get up to 20 vlts. This boils the battery, (often blowing headlight bulbs) sometimes frys the Ignition box & over stresses the alternator.

Or the alternator burns, lowering the voltage, stressing everything else out etc etc.

New battery. Buy a multimeter from Dick Smith or somewhere for about $30, put on the 20V setting. Start the bike & rev. If the voltage gets anywhere beyond sat 14.5 Volts then the rec/reg is toast. Any less than 12.5 with the lights on & a bit of a rev & the alternator is likely toast. Hopefully the ignition is ok. Let us know how you go.

[vifferman]

Sounds like charging system, kinda common on old suzis I’m afraid. In no particular order the Rectifier/Regulator dies. The system then has to deal with un controlled voltage which may get up to 20 vlts. This boils the battery, (often blowing headlight bulbs) sometimes frys the Ignition box & over stresses the alternator.

Or the alternator burns, lowering the voltage, stressing everything else out etc etc.

New battery. Buy a multimeter from Dick Smith or somewhere for about $30, put on the 20V setting. Start the bike & rev. If the voltage gets anywhere beyond sat 14.5 Volts then the rec/reg is toast. Any less than 12.5 with the lights on & a bit of a rev & the alternator is likely toast. Hopefully the ignition is ok. Let us know how you go.Hmmm.. almost. The R/R can die in two ways, depending on what part of the circuitry fails. The result can be undersupply of zolts, or oversupply. If it's undersupply, the battery will slowly drain, until the point where there's not enough ergs for ignition, and then the bike stops. If it's oversupply, it cooks things.
The alternator/stator voltage should rise with the revs, and shouldn't go above 14.x volts, but in fact, if you look at the specs of some bikes (like the VTR1000, f'rinstance), it actually states summat like "regulated between 12 and 15.5V".
You may find too that it's heat-related; as the bike gets hot, the electrics start to play up, then when it cools down, it's OK. This can be due to the components in the R/R failing when the thing's hot, or the hot oil in the engine monkeying with a dodgy stator.
Another possibility is crappy connections in the charging circuit (corrosion, loose earth(s), loose connections, chafed/broken wires. A good place to start is to check all the wires and from the stator housing or alternator, through to R/R, the battery connections, earths, etc.
It all may sound a bit complex, but it's not if you have a meter and take your time. There's a ton (or tonne) of stuff on the interweb to help with diagnosis, and people (even duffers like me) willing to help.
Good luck (not that I believe in that).

[F5 Dave]

Yes that is indeed possible that the rec/reg could fail in a situation where less voltage was supplied (the rectifier side could throw one of the phases) but I have never seen it, I do not believe the regulation could fail so as to become lower, if it did then it would need to rid itself of the heat & probably terminating in short order thus becoming unregulated, or perhaps shorted.

Strange that some suppliers have gone away from well finned regulators, this is the part that needs to shed the heat, I believe the VTR is such as a friend just had to replace his & said it was just a bare box. Ideally these things should be well finned, bolted flat to the frame & in the airstream.

Letting the oil level get too low is a killer for some alternators.

[vifferman]

Yes that is indeed possible that the rec/reg could fail in a situation where less voltage was supplied (the rectifier side could throw one of the phases) but I have never seen it, I do not believe the regulation could fail so as to become lower, if it did then it would need to rid itself of the heat & probably terminating in short order thus becoming unregulated, or perhaps shorted.Nevertheless, it's very common, and my last two R/Rs failed in this mode, for the reasons you postulated.


Strange that some suppliers have gone away from well finned regulators, this is the part that needs to shed the heat, I believe the VTR is such as a friend just had to replace his & said it was just a bare box. Ideally these things should be well finned, bolted flat to the frame & in the airstream. Honda finally showed tacit acknowledgement of the problem (even if they didn't admit to it) by fitting one of Shindengen's beefier, finned R/Rs to the 2002 VFR, after years of having them fail due to being too lightweight and mounted in a hot location. The new ones are mounted on the frame on the RH side above the radiator.
The new replacement VTR ones are still the same size and shape, but finned, and a waste of time, unless you want "plug and pray" simplicity. The standard location is too hot, and the R/R too weedy.

On my VFR, I ripped out all the wiring from the stator to the R/R and battery, then mounted my new R/R under the headstock, like bike manufacturers used to do:
http://community.webshots.com/album/35458602cOCSNv

On the VTR, I did a similar though less radical piece of surgery:
http://community.webshots.com/album/88297322swwFNk

[F5 Dave]

Cool, sent link onto friend.

[Bonez]

ok i finally get my bike in working order an warranted rego'd...
then the bike dies over the other side of the hills. running on 3 backfiring dieing over 8krpm... flat battery. its an electrical fault. bugger! maybe my next bike will be a bit mor reliable.
How old is the battery?

[badlieutenant]

You may find too that it's heat-related; as the bike gets hot, the electrics start to play up, then when it cools down, it's OK. This can be due to the components in the R/R failing when the thing's hot, or the hot oil in the engine monkeying with a dodgy stator.

It all may sound a bit complex, but it's not if you have a meter and take your time. There's a ton (or tonne) of stuff on the interweb to help with diagnosis, and people (even duffers like me) willing to help.
Good luck (not that I believe in that).

had that. bastard to find out about untill someone says something like "its failing thermaly" .
And the latter part is bang on too. Ive found heps of tweaks, fixs etc on the net.

[badlieutenant]

Nevertheless, it's very common, and my last two R/Rs failed in this mode, for the reasons you postulated.

Honda finally showed tacit acknowledgement of the problem (even if they didn't admit to it) by fitting one of Shindengen's beefier, finned R/Rs to the 2002 VFR, after years of having them fail due to being too lightweight and mounted in a hot location. The new ones are mounted on the frame on the RH side above the radiator.
The new replacement VTR ones are still the same size and shape, but finned, and a waste of time, unless you want "plug and pray" simplicity. The standard location is too hot, and the R/R too weedy.

On my VFR, I ripped out all the wiring from the stator to the R/R and battery, then mounted my new R/R under the headstock, like bike manufacturers used to do:
http://community.webshots.com/album/35458602cOCSNv

On the VTR, I did a similar though less radical piece of surgery:
http://community.webshots.com/album/88297322swwFNk
yay honda! took them 20 yrs and lots of moans before they did anything about thier r/r's. Ive got a fan but your way would be best.

[Blakamin]

i might just go out to the garage and mount a chip fan and heatsink on mine... its pretty ugly but I'm sure it's on its second and wires dont look that sh*t-hot

[TwoSeven]

The good thing is - I get free beer every time I have to go pick him up. And tomorrow is beer night :blah:

[Artifice]

ok guys thx for the help :niceone: . taunts from the flatmates... :wacko: yah im an idiot sometimes.
it was a loose connection on the battery. the neg had become undone. hence i could go along the flat without too much trouble but as soon as it got a load on the thing died. i couldnt get too the battery without an allan key anyhow.
i dont really want to start riding everywhere with a whole toolbox on the rear. but i guess the old allan key 10/12mm and phillips screwdriver are a must.

[F5 Dave]

Nice to have a cheap solution for a change. Do yourself a favour & do check the charging from time to time with a meter, they are dirt cheap, easy to use & could save you a lot of drama.

[vifferman]

Ive found heps of tweaks, fixs etc on the net.Just ignore the ones with the PC heatsink and fan fitted to your R/R, especially if it's on a bike where the R/R is still mounted under the bodywork. It's like sticking something in the oven with a fan to cool it down. Especially on a V engine, where there's significant heat coming off the rear header(s) and wafting up under the rear of the bike.:wacko:


:beer:

[vifferman]

Nice to have a cheap solution for a change. Do yourself a favour & do check the charging from time to time with a meter, they are dirt cheap, easy to use & could save you a lot of drama.Indeed. In fact, if you have a bike that's know for electrical problems, buy yourself a small voltmeter, and stick it on your dashboard. Even though I've got 2 multimeters, the digital voltmeter/clock/battery charge indicator/laptimer/stopwatch on my dash was much more helpful for diagnosing my electrical problems. Cost me $42, and gave me a handy clock as well.:2thumbsup

[F5 Dave]

Yeah the fan in my oven has stopped working.

[Motu]

I've fitted a LED voltmeter to the XLV750,fitted with velcro and bullet connectors so I can take it on or off.I cooked several stators with a faulty reg a few years ago,so I'm a bit paranoid these days.The annoying thing was that it still showed a charge,which threw me off a bit.The XLV750 reg is in one of the worse places possible,maybe a rewire and mount it external somewhere.

[vifferman]

The XLV750 reg is in one of the worse places possible,maybe a rewire and mount it external somewhere.Yeah - what's up widdat? It's like Honda stylists decided that an R/R was an ugly sumbitch, so it needed to hidden, and needed to be small so it was easy to hide. Yet I've seen quite a few bikes (esp. cruisers) where it's mounted externally, and looks kinda kewl and 'technical' with the fins and all.
On the VFR, there's a significant amount of heat on the right side under the seat (headers exit on that side), and it's a toss-up whether the R/R is transferring heat to the frame rail it's mounted on, or vice-versa...:wacko:

[Blakamin]

Yeah the fan in my oven has stopped working.
Ha bloody ha!

ok thats not a good idea then.... I might get a PC watercooling system on it... with a coupla cold cathodes and run motherboard monitor and.. and...


NO! :blank:

[vifferman]

Ha bloody ha!

ok thats not a good idea then.... I might get a PC watercooling system on it... with a coupla cold cathodes and run motherboard monitor and.. and...


NO! :blank:Well, that's been done too: the peltier element thing, and all that. It takes a bit of guts to get your sidecutters out and do some radical surgery on your wiring, and to be honest, after I rewired the VFR, up until I pushed the starter button, I had no idea whether the bike would blow up in a shower of sparks or what.

[Blakamin]

Well, that's been done too: the peltier element thing, and all that. It takes a bit of guts to get your sidecutters out and do some radical surgery on your wiring, and to be honest, after I rewired the VFR, up until I pushed the starter button, I had no idea whether the bike would blow up in a shower of sparks or what.
I had that thought every morning until i replaced half the terminals... now if i could only find out why one headlight only works when it feels like it (on low beam)... :wacko:

[F5 Dave]

Gee, laugh at my misfortune :angry: , How am I going to make those little dovecakes rise without the fanbake option. It’s only 2 years old, just out of warranty.

[F5 Dave]

Well I had an interesting problem with my new headlights, the light only worked when you wiggled the bulb holder. Drove me a bit crazy for a little while, swapped the bulb over (bulbs can fail like that) checked the looming, (which I had modified so was suspecting my own work) but it turned out that the bulb holder was corroded where it makes contact in the bayonet part. Problem solved.

Only other problem was one bulb goes on high when the other on low.
Easy mistake to make though as the insert had been pulled out & rotated around (not H4 fitting but one of those tail light types often used on smaller bikes).

[Blakamin]

Well I had an interesting problem with my new headlights, the light only worked when you wiggled the bulb holder. Drove me a bit crazy for a little while, swapped the bulb over (bulbs can fail like that) checked the looming, (which I had modified so was suspecting my own work) but it turned out that the bulb holder was corroded where it makes contact in the bayonet part. Problem solved.

Thats a thought... i sprayed half a can of crc at it and thought i solved it... a week later it returned

Will have a squiz at lunchtime... might get the dremel on to it....

How much did ya want for those boots?

[F5 Dave]

Might just chaulk them up to building up goodwill. Have no other use for them.

[Blakamin]

Might just chaulk them up to building up goodwill. Have no other use for them.
:niceone: :niceone: :niceone: :niceone:
cheers mate, I'll get you a coffee/beer oneday then

[TwoSeven]

hey - dont tell him how to fix the problems. My beer supply will dry up. :drinknsin