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View Full Version : New toy, I think it's a keeper.



Ocean1
13th August 2007, 03:01
Last week I bought a Buell, an ’06 XB12R.
This after weeks bickering with what passes for my resident internal Voice of Reason. “It’s too small for you, too uncomfortable, twitchy, far too much like some prop for a Thunderbirds movie. You’ll kill yourself dead…” Until finally I called it names, “old coward” worked, and reason is banished to the back benches. For now.

The brother (ZZR1200) came to help me unload if from the van, “Fark, it’s tiny. Cute though. You wana go for a ride this weekend?” I mumbled something about chores, domestic felicity etc. “And the weather’s supposed to be shit…” So, Saturday, rain, chores, wind, brief hoon on the new toy to see a mate. Sunday morning, more chores, sun… SUN? Called the brother. “Coffee in Martinborough, says he, see you at my place midday.”

Now he of the ZZR has a few miles under his belt, worth listening too. “It’s wetish”, says he. Me: “So I should take it easy with these semi-slicks huh? (just to show I’m not a complete idiot). “Moss, says he. “Out in the back blocks, stay the fuck off the green shit, even when you can't see it.” Right, so, off up through Upper Hutt, trying to figure what gear best suits the oversized Briggs & Stratton as it burbles, bitches and grumbles at 50k, (none, it’s just naturally philosophically adverse to 50k). Te Marua, (dry I see), the V twin starts to sound and feel like it’s supposed to. Into the first of those big sweeping curves, down to 3rd, there’s the apex, turn it in… here, not fast understand, but brisk, enough to see what that “something weird” I’d previously noticed going on up front was. It’s almost like at a certain point the bike seems to notice that you’ve decided to change direction, begrudgingly obliges and the front wheel steps out a couple of inches to sorta brace itself. Scary. Still, it soon becomes obvious it’s not a prelude to anything nasty, just unsettling at first.

Up that last long straight before The Hill and past the only other traffic in sight… and the type of road I hoped was the reason I’d bought the bike is here, now. The Brother’s away, “sweet line mate” I think, and again. Half way up and I start to relax as it becomes apparent the machine isn’t going to spit me off unless I do something stupid… or maybe get very unlucky. It occurs to me about here that the Buell’s engine makes this bloody easy. The power’s not the homogenous stream of a 4, it comes in big congealed lumps. But perhaps because you can feel it, (yes and hear it) it’s perfectly predictable. Also, there’s very little surge as it comes onto the cam, it just keeps building, coming on with the revs. How does it handle? Wrong person to ask, I’ve got too little to compare it to. I can tell you I like the way it behaves at anything more than first gear. The steering geometry and short wheelbase means it does need a bit of pressure on the bars to keep it turning in, but the flip side is that is you can make quite serious line adjustments quite quickly. The important thing is that it seems to be predictable, and that means I can learn what makes it work. Further up now and there’s a bus, and here’s the last passing lane before the top.. oops, and there’s the rev limiter. “So what did we think of that then? I ask myself, and laugh. I think it’s going to be a good day.

A nod to the half a dozen standing around their bikes at the top, and down the other side. Traffic now, which is OK because I’m trying to stay out of a constant stream of diesel, and the rain starts again. Be easy to lose it here, between the diesel and the shiny wet lines, but that big inside-out front brake is very good, very reassuring. One of Reason’s arguments involved the riding position, and half way down I am starting to feel an old niggle in my right wrist. Luckily I can’t feel it too much, I forgot to put the liner back into my jacket and in the shade of the hill I’m bloody cold. And my legs feel fine, not too scrunched up (yet anyway). The sun comes out again as we leave Featherston, and the weight comes off my wrists at the recommended retail speed up the main drag. Out east of Geraldton a bit and we stop for a break.

Instructions about where we’re going, what to watch for, (Yes I know, you told me about the godam moss), and away around a 60k loop ending in the promised coffee in Martinborough. Managed to navigate the dreaded moss, numerous deposits of horse/cow/sheep/duck shit, great drifts of leaves, storm-broken branches and even a whole tree across the road. Successfully failed to hit a couple of stray lambs, a few cyclist and a fucking great bull on the run from what I can imagine was a life fraught with strife with his 137 heifers. There was one slight blemish, on a right hander, about 70k. In one of those long 5 minutes that you later realise was in fact 0.37 seconds the front went awol. In the time it took me to think “Fuck, I’ve got a flat” and twitch the bars a smidgeon away from the turn it was over, the front had slid an inch, recovered, slid another inch etc. etc. and within about a metre was back on the job, all sweet. The fact that it then felt fine (so not a flat at all) didn’t stop me running as wide as possible (not very) and feeling seriously miffed about the whole episode. I did go back to look but while there may have been a few semi-rotten leaves involved and the Pirelli Super Corsa’s are well into their “replace now” indicator bits it was hard to fully explain the sudden wee excursion. Brief chat with self: “You / the bike managed it OK, either get over it or push the fuckin’ bike home.”

So what did we learn today? Well, Reason’s usually right, and I often regret not listening. But not this time, I love this bike, sure it’s different but I don’t really know any better. I have ridden a few recently, in an attempt to figure out what I wanted, and on that simple basis and with a first decent ride behind me I’d chose the same one again. This bike’s tight, I like the way it’s been set up, maybe both ends could do with a hint less compression damping but I’ll wait until another ride or two before I start playing. It rolls into turns accurately once you learn to be firm with it, and that wonderful big under-square double thumper pulls it out of the turns beautifully at anything above 2000 rpm.

The coffee in Martinborough is pretty good, I’ll be back. Yeah, I think this is the bike I’d hoped it was. It’s fun. More importantly it’s also fun at sensible (even legal) velocities. Except in town, it don’t do town well, we should get on fine.

Mekk
13th August 2007, 04:16
Reason can be right about some things... but usually only the consequences of Feeling, which seduced you into buying the bike. And without that a lot of us wouldn't ride!

Bloody good write up, I enjoyed reading it.

slowpoke
13th August 2007, 04:57
Very well written Mr Twain.
Hmmmm, there's "character" and then there's "scary", that front end sounds more of the latter than the former, especially if you were only cruising. Still you enjoyed yourself, you still love the bike and stayed shiney side up, so all's good.

Crisis management
13th August 2007, 08:00
Great write up, reminds me of why I ride bikes; it's fear of dying with a list of "Things I must do before I die" before me with nothing ticked off.

Good description of the bike, it's a hell of a lot more useful than the usual does 360km/h and wheelstands for 10 km's in 7th stuff we usually get. I'm interested in the front end step out as that sounds more like a tyre squared off at the front rather than a handling foible, let us know what new tyres do for it.

Now, where's that list gone?

scumdog
13th August 2007, 08:03
Excellent stringing of words Mr O1, well done, your english teacher would be proud of you..

After riding a similar bike owned by Rashika from Ch-ch to Akkers I know exactly where you're coming from, they're a better bike than a lot give credit for.

Clivoris
13th August 2007, 09:57
Nice read mate. See you out and about, if I ever start riding on the road again.

kiwifruit
13th August 2007, 10:04
congrats on the new bike :)
nice writing

nudemetalz
13th August 2007, 10:16
Great story !!!!
Good to see someone appreciating a good old air-cooled pushrod V-twin sports bike, whether it be from Italy (as mine is ), or Yankee Land.
You don't need oodles of horsepower or oodles of revs to have fun.

007XX
13th August 2007, 11:04
As usual, a very good read sir...

But...where are the pics???? Pretty please...

Ocean1
13th August 2007, 11:24
As usual, a very good read sir...

But...where are the pics???? Pretty please...

Oh stop it with the big eyes and chin quivering... Here, your daily porn fix:

007XX
13th August 2007, 11:29
Oh stop it with the big eyes and chin quivering... Here, your daily porn fix:

Oh my...!!!!:drool:

It is my heart who is now aquiver:love:

You were right though, she's way too small for you :laugh: So I will do you the favour to take her off you for a small fee...:dodge:

ManDownUnder
13th August 2007, 11:41
Oh stop it with the big eyes and chin quivering... Here, your daily porn fix:

Vurry nice!!!!

u4ea
13th August 2007, 11:51
Very good write up.sounds like you have bonded with the blue beauty just fine..and aint it great when you can give a gal the giggles and drools aye!

tri boy
13th August 2007, 12:24
Big Dave should be along any minute now.....
Me thinks those tyres might not be the best for greasy country roads.:mellow:

Ocean1
13th August 2007, 12:53
Big Dave should be along any minute now.....
Me thinks those tyres might not be the best for greasy country roads.:mellow:

So what is the best for those greasy country roads?

tri boy
13th August 2007, 13:26
I'm not sure, maybe some tyre pro's can help out.
They seem a bit narrow focused towards dry, predictable surfaces. Not the usual seal(goat track) that we have to put up with.

MSTRS
13th August 2007, 16:11
So what is the best for those greasy country roads?

These.......

Ocean1
13th August 2007, 16:17
These.......

:laugh: N-ice.

Wonder how long they'd last on the Buell in the back roads though...

007XX
13th August 2007, 16:20
These.......

Dang...:shit: them are some nice knobs for sure!! Are they for those crazy gits doing hardcore hill climbs?

Ocean1
13th August 2007, 16:34
Dang...:shit: them are some nice knobs for sure!! Are they for those crazy gits doing hardcore hill climbs?

They're for snow/ice.

Ice speedway footwear:

007XX
13th August 2007, 16:38
They're for snow/ice.

Ice speedway footwear:

You are such a source of fascinating information! Thanks...

Now, about the meaning of life...:innocent::laugh:

*where the heck did I put that tibetan chant??*

Macktheknife
13th August 2007, 16:41
Bloody nice looking machine mate and a good write up too, well done.

MSTRS
13th August 2007, 16:56
Now, about the meaning of life...:innocent::laugh:



Including the universe and everything?
The answer is.....46.

Ocean1
13th August 2007, 17:04
Including the universe and everything?
The answer is.....46.

:laugh: Is that a white mouse I see in your sporran, or are you just pleased to see me?

smoky
13th August 2007, 17:17
It’s almost like at a certain point the bike seems to notice that you’ve decided to change direction, begrudgingly obliges and the front wheel steps out a couple of inches to sorta brace itself. Scary. Still, it soon becomes obvious it’s not a prelude to anything nasty, just unsettling at first.

Sounds like a tyre problem alright, my bandit did the same thing when i first got it - the last owner was a bit shy at leaning it over and the tyre wore into that pattern. I would be steering into a corner then all of a sudden it would drop into it and the front wheel slip out and grap a new bit of rubber to grip with. A brand new set of Pilot road 2's sorted it out - and by the way they're a fantastic tyre in all conditions, but especaily in the wet.

good write up dude - and lovely bike

Ocean1
13th August 2007, 17:39
Sounds like a tyre problem alright, my bandit did the same thing when i first got it - the last owner was a bit shy at leaning it over and the tyre wore into that pattern. I would be steering into a corner then all of a sudden it would drop into it and the front wheel slip out and grap a new bit of rubber to grip with. A brand new set of Pilot road 2's sorted it out - and by the way they're a fantastic tyre in all conditions, but especaily in the wet.

good write up dude - and lovely bike

You may be right, certainly hard to think of any way it could be a characteristic of the bike or steering geometry. Except the last owner wern't at all shy, there's less tread on the shoulders than the "sedate zone". Also, both of the others I test rode showed evidence of the same little twitch, one of them alarmingly so (I'd decided that one was set up way soft in the forks, it tended to dive a bit and "set" there going in to a turn).

To be honest I'm not that worried about it as long as it's repeatable and consistent. What does worry me a little is that unexplained lateral slither at an apex, at very reasonable speed, pretty much exactly where my brother had just used the same line. That had to be pure grip related, and yet while the surface wasn't perfect it sure wasn't very wet. So I'm struggling to blame it entirely on the big sticky Pirelli's... dunno. "Sensible" rubber is certainly not far away, Pilot road 2's huh? Noted, thanks.

smoky
13th August 2007, 18:09
both of the others I test rode showed evidence of the same little twitch, one of them alarmingly so (I'd decided that one was set up way soft in the forks, it tended to dive a bit and "set" there going in to a turn).

I've been trying to learn how to compress the suspension using the brakes when coming into a corner, keeping the bike flatter into and thru the corner - I've found it stabalises the front wheel.

Any way I'm sure you'll sort it out

Maha
13th August 2007, 18:16
Oh stop it with the big eyes and chin quivering... Here, your daily porn fix:

Wow! another blue lovely...:rockon:
Awesome colour Ocean, its a keeper alright....:yes:

Madness
13th August 2007, 18:30
I too ventured over the hill on sunday and looking at the pictures of those donuts I'm far from suprised that you had traction issues. The diesel in the southbound lane, all the fecking way over the hill was a beauty, the prick took the best line on every bend.

Nice write up. I'm going to have to test ride ne of these, see if they fit me.

Ocean1
15th August 2007, 10:40
I've been trying to learn how to compress the suspension using the brakes when coming into a corner, keeping the bike flatter into and thru the corner - I've found it stabalises the front wheel.


Sorta hard not to if you're on the brakes going in. But I know what you mean, timing when you ease off the front picks can settle the front lower and make the steering a bit sharper. Still working it out, the Buell's radically steep steering angle means feck all trail anyway, it's not slugish turning. Still haven't chacked the sag, back or front, it's possible it's riding too high in the back. Should probably talk to someone who's raced one to get some set-up tips, not that I'm going to be pushing it hard but I do like to keep things right side up.

Clivoris
15th August 2007, 11:42
Lots of people on KB have been having mid corner traction problems lately. Probably reflects that the roads are still very cold despite improvements in the weather. I've also been advised by people that know about these things and MY riding ability, that tyres like super corsas aren't the go on the road. I don't ride aggressively enough to get them up to proper temperature, even with lowered air pressures. Apparently, during the winter there aren't many people that can keep them warm enough on the road. I dunno really but it makes sense to me.
Just my 2 cents.

Ocean1
15th August 2007, 13:23
Lots of people on KB have been having mid corner traction problems lately. Probably reflects that the roads are still very cold despite improvements in the weather. I've also been advised by people that know about these things and MY riding ability, that tyres like super corsas aren't the go on the road. I don't ride aggressively enough to get them up to proper temperature, even with lowered air pressures. Apparently, during the winter there aren't many people that can keep them warm enough on the road. I dunno really but it makes sense to me.
Just my 2 cents.

Yup, was far from pushing it so I was surprised how warm they were when I stopped for coffee, probably well short of what they're designed for though. Duno what the brother had on the ZZR but he's obviously more confident with them than I had reason to be on the Buell. Tyre recommendation for sub-optimal conditions?

Clivoris
15th August 2007, 19:57
Yup, was far from pushing it so I was surprised how warm they were when I stopped for coffee, probably well short of what they're designed for though. Duno what the brother had on the ZZR but he's obviously more confident with them than I had reason to be on the Buell. Tyre recommendation for sub-optimal conditions?

This is always a hoary (sp?) old chestnut. Can't let that stop me blathering on though:zzzz: I had a set of Conti Sport Attacks that were confidence inspiring in most conditions until the rear started wearing funny, and wore out at lower than expected smileage. I suspect that the problem may have occurred because I couldn't bring myself to run the recommended pressures (4-6 psi higher than usual). Still, they were good while they lasted. I had a good run out of some Avon Vipers on my SV1000. I don't get on with Dunlops. I love the Super Corsas on my Honda 400 so am trying out some Diablos. Not enough mileage yet though to have a proper opinion. Many guys whose opinion I value rave about Michelin Pilot Powers but I didn't like some of the characteristics of the Pilot Sports ( I found them to be to unsettled by surface changes). You wont get much more than 4-5,000km out of a rear anyway so you will get to try a few combinations :yes: There must be a few Buell riders out there with suggestions?

Ocean1
15th August 2007, 21:06
This is always a hoary (sp?) old chestnut.

'Swot I like, a difinitive answer. :laugh: Tyre talk's good to start a fight with bikers every time. Cheers dude.

smoky
15th August 2007, 21:17
I don't ride aggressively enough to get them up to proper temperature, even with lowered air pressures. Apparently, during the winter there aren't many people that can keep them warm enough on the road.

I wouldn’t think you’d find a tyre that relies on the nature of compound grip (heat) to work on the open road in the wet, in winter. That’s why tyres have groves (tread), to move the water away to give the tyre a chance to work.
Dropping the tyre presser actually closes the tread and makes it more difficult to get grip out of your tyre - Just my opinion.


guys whose opinion I value rave about Michelin Pilot Powers but I didn't like some of the characteristics of the Pilot Sports ( I found them to be to unsettled by surface changes). You wont get much more than 4-5,000km out of a rear anyway

Apparently tyres with higher silicon properties grip better especially in lower temperatures, but wear out quicker.
Duel compound tyres are suppose to give you the best of both worlds, higher silicon value when you lean and need more grip, longer wear value when you’re straight up and down. I’ve already done 4000 k’s and not even half worn yet.

Clivoris
15th August 2007, 21:26
I wouldn’t think you’d find a tyre that relies on the nature of compound grip (heat) to work on the open road in the wet, in winter. That’s why tyres have groves (tread), to move the water away to give the tyre a chance to work.


For sure. I wasn't even thinking about the wet. Just thinking about cold but dry roads. If half the hype is to be believed, even those single compound pilot powers are the good stuff for fast warm-up, grip and wear.

mbazza
15th August 2007, 22:19
Thanks for a most interesing write up. Agree with what Scumdog said about the English! (That is a worry.) Very nice bike. Pity you can't keep thye KLR. Thanks again. Cheers :D

qldzxr250a
16th August 2007, 07:30
i just got some m3sportec dual compound on the gix and must say very impresed, it rained on way home (not as cold here as u guys....) but was very impressed at the performace and feedback which equaled confidence in the wet like ive never had before.


never tried pirellis or nefing but wont be in a hurry to when the time comes simply because im content with the M3's.

oh yer queensland roads are alot different to yours temp and all......but was pissin rain tonight first time in a while so all the crap came up.

bring on sunny days....
:sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:

Animal
16th August 2007, 11:13
Oh stop it with the big eyes and chin quivering... Here, your daily porn fix:

Oh yeah, that's done it for me!

That's just awesome, Ocean1. For once, I'm even speechless.:first:

Ocean1
16th August 2007, 11:24
For once, I'm even speechless.:first:

That's 'cause you don't have the genetically conferred linguistic fortitude of the original recipient dude.

Animal
16th August 2007, 11:26
Fark, now I'm speechless AND bewildered!

marks
20th September 2007, 19:23
nice write up - thanks
One day I will own one of these...

Edbear
20th September 2007, 19:58
Including the universe and everything?
The answer is.....46.


Funny, I thought it was 42! Or did I just miss out again...

Yeah, good write up! Even if it's a bit old now. Then so'm I, so I guess we're even!:cool:

oldrider
20th September 2007, 21:24
I have only just picked up on this thread O-1, what a great write up!

I have to say that the Buell "Ulysses" has always smoked my tyres, I don't know why, it just does!

Unfortunately, my wallet doesn't smoke to that degree!

I realise yours is not a Ulysses but it is a Buell and they do have that certain appeal.

Congratulations on your new bike, I hope you have a great run with it. :niceone: Cheers, John.

Ocean1
21st September 2007, 13:27
I have only just picked up on this thread O-1, what a great write up!

I have to say that the Buell "Ulysses" has always smoked my tyres, I don't know why, it just does!

Unfortunately, my wallet doesn't smoke to that degree!

I realise yours is not a Ulysses but it is a Buell and they do have that certain appeal.

Congratulations on your new bike, I hope you have a great run with it. :niceone: Cheers, John.

Thank you John, I'm enjoying it so far.

And yes, I did look at the Ulysses but I'm from the dirt, and it's so far from what I'm used to for that purpose as to be near useless (for me). Much as the Ulysses has it's good points I think your bike is a better compromise for NZ.

I may get an old dirt beater and turn it into a silk purse, (just for the odd dirt caper), but I've never really believed there's an adequate compromise which does either job well enough to be worthwhile. The closest might be a superduke which transforms from Adv to R at the push of a button, on the fly so to speak. Maybe next season eh? If so I'll be in the queue.

Ocean1
22nd October 2007, 01:20
I'm interested in the front end step out as that sounds more like a tyre squared off at the front rather than a handling foible, let us know what new tyres do for it.


Me thinks those tyres might not be the best for greasy country roads.:mellow:


Sounds like a tyre problem alright, my bandit did the same thing when i first got it - A brand new set of Pilot road 2's sorted it out


Many guys whose opinion I value rave about Michelin Pilot Powers

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Thought you might like an update.

I had been waiting for some pilot road 2s, and in the meantime I went over the suspension set-up again. I'd already backed off the rear preload another click, and at 30mm sag the bike felt less manic. Little less surgically precise maybe, but it tracked better and that wee "step out" was gone. May well have just been a function of not enough rake/trail. Couple of rides later I decided I'd hit some reasonably hard lumps without it getting anywhere near bottomed out, (this I know because I'd marked the stancheons). I also thought it could do with squatting a little more under braking. So I went down a bit more on the compression damping, which did improve things a bit.

And then the tyres arrived, so I took the bike down and waited while they fitted them. I was well home before I noticed that they'd fitted pilot powers instead of pilot roads. Ah well, no worries, It'd been a toss-up anyway. So I spent a week and a couple of mild local trips knocking the shine off them.

First really good ride on them today, and they're definitely less skittery than the Super Corsas. More predictable too, I can feel the back working around slightly but no sign of any sudden slithers, and the front just feels better planted.

So, a couple of minor tweaks and new tyres has made things less twitchy, feels better to me anyway. However, :rolleyes: the forks still seemed... almost slightly oversprung. Tonight I decided to re-check things.

The book just gives pre-load settings for rider weight, not ideal. Bit of research and I found several references to good results with both ends at 30mm dynamic sag. OK, first things first. Static sag is... rear 12mm (OK), and the front... 24mm, (what the fuck?). I ain't no lightweight, but I'm only compressing the forks another 11mm? Shit. Now, the front preload had been higher than the book said it should be in order to get the 35mm they were set to. So either the front springs aren't standard, (doubt it) or there's a lot more oil in the forks than there orta be. And that'd explain the apparent heavily exponential spring rate too.

Guess what I'll be doing tomorrow...