98 octane fuels?

[KEN]

I am running all my cars,and my Suzuki 1400 Intruda on the BP Ultimate 98 Octane and thay run a lot "sharper" and smoother an it. What are your views and experences??

[Sleepr]

I been running my hornet 250 on 98 too, it seems to be running fine. I am yet to run it on 95 and see what the difference is like.

[Coldrider]

My understanding is higher octane fuels are slower burning, so as to stop pre-detonation under higher compression.
I can't tell any difference on my ZX between 91 & 95, 98 i haven't tried, but would have to be tuned for it to get any benefit, as it makes ample power anyway, I won't be bothering.

[Mr Merde]

I have been running my Suzuki 1200 on 98 for about 6 months now.

It may be me and my perceptions but I seem to be getting better milage to the tankful by abiout 50km.

possibly the fact that I seem to be running less revs top get a certain speed.

Worth the few extra cents, IMHO, for this.

[vifferman]

We try to run the cars (two Peugeots and a Fiat, all EFI) on 98 when we can, and the VFR (also EFI) at least every other fill, with 91 on the other fills.

Now I'm running a PCII map on the VFR with ignition advance, I need to run 98 so it doesn't explode.

Even before the map, the VFR seems to run better on 98, as it pinks a bit taking off when it gets hot (especially when the tank's getting low, as the fuel pump's in the tank, and warms up without much fuel to cool it). But in the winter, the 98 takes a bit more cranking to start, due to the slower burning, so I use 91 a bit more.

[Delphinus]

What is classed as high compression?
Like is 12.5 : 1?

[Brian d marge]

Its not slower burnning , all the same speed ( 30 odd ft/sec ) 98 has glue in it which makes the flame edge more stable , ( less likely to fall apart under heat and pressure )

All Jap vehicles are designed for 91

Interested in the sharper smoother comment ,, ,, What other factors were there ,,when this happened ? was it raining? damp ...

Stephen

Sorry this is a pre coffee post

[scumdog]

What is classed as high compression?
Like is 12.5 : 1?

Yep, that would be high.

My F100 is 11:1 and pinks even on 98.

Funilly enough it didn't do so on the old 'leaded' Super.

[scumdog]

I
possibly the fact that I seem to be running less revs top get a certain speed.
.

Can't be done - unless your clutch is slipping same revs = same speed.

Maybe you might have less of a throttle opening, that's quite plausible.

[Delphinus]

Yep, that would be high.

My F100 is 11:1 and pinks even on 98.

Funilly enough it didn't do so on the old 'leaded' Super.

I've been running my Triumph on 91 and seems fine so far.. Will give 98 a try.

[Mr Merde]

....
Maybe you might have less of a throttle opening, that's quite plausible.

Thats what I meant. sorry busy day, fat fingers and slow brain.

[jrandom]

My F100 is 11:1 and pinks even on 98.

The factory spec compression ration on the FXR150 engine is 10.7:1. I found that 98 octane in summer made a noticeable difference to the way my one ran.

[fireball]

The factory spec compression ration on the FXR150 engine is 10.7:1. I found that 98 octane in summer made a noticeable difference to the way my one ran.

i noticed my FXR runs better on 98 in summer but starting in winter is alot harder so i drop to 95 in winter very tempted to run it on racing gas just for a giggle im sure that will clean the cobwebs out :yes:

[scumdog]

i noticed my FXR runs better on 98 in summer but starting in winter is alot harder so i drop to 95 in winter very tempted to run it on racing gas just for a giggle im sure that will clean the cobwebs out :yes:

Put my F100 on race/av gas and hoo-boy does it run well! Can advance the timing another 2-3 degrees and still doesn't pink (much)
Even idles smoother (well, as smooth as the cam will let it)

[fireball]

Put my F100 on race/av gas and hoo-boy does it run well! Can advance the timing another 2-3 degrees and still doesn't pink (much)
Even idles smoother (well, as smooth as the cam will let it)

im amused tho i can get top speed **blush** of 130 red lining of course on 95 octane but the 98 puts my top speed **more blushing** at 140
not that i speed or anything im a legal rider :lol:

[Kendog]

im amused tho i can get top speed **blush** of 130 red lining of course on 95 octane but the 98 puts my top speed **more blushing** at 140
not that i speed or anything im a legal rider :lol:

I am sure these 'tests' were conducted on a track ;) so no worries.

I took my FXR onto Manfeild years ago and it was reading 150 down the back straight using 91.

[fireball]

I am sure these 'tests' were conducted on a track ;) so no worries.

I took my FXR onto Manfeild years ago and it was reading 150 down the back straight using 91.

i am curious as how you managed to get such speed out of it even after a good full on service it only pulls 140 struggling and shaking as only the FXR does. :scooter:

[Kendog]

i am curious as how you managed to get such speed out of it even after a good full on service it only pulls 140 struggling and shaking as only the FXR does. :scooter:

The bike would have been fairly new (maybe 2 yrs old) and had a very gentle life.
Not sure what the wind was doing that day but a tail wind would have helped, especially on these bikes.

To be honest the FXR does the job well enough on the open road (except passing up hill into a head wind) so I would not worry about 140 vs 150.

Once you get onto a bigger bike you will laugh when thinking back to these speeds being fast. Just remember the road is not a track.

[fireball]

The bike would have been fairly new (maybe 2 yrs old) and had a very gentle life.
Not sure what the wind was doing that day but a tail wind would have helped, especially on these bikes.

To be honest the FXR does the job well enough on the open road (except passing up hill into a head wind) so I would not worry about 140 vs 150.

Once you get onto a bigger bike you will laugh when thinking back to these speeds being fast. Just remember the road is not a track.

with a teacher like big dog i know when it is time to go fast and slow i dont like to speed that often as its ment for the track! but still sometimes id like to keep up! but will be trading up to my next bike in a matter of weeks but dont know what to get yet any suggestions?

[Pancakes]

I used to run mine on 98 only, have used race gas too but not much octane/$ really eh. Use 95 all the time now and seat'o'the pants meter says no difference from 98 and cheaper. The manual for said mighty Ho'sack says min 86 octane or something stupid! I want a turbo diesel single 250. When I win lotto I'm into production! (hehehe, won't hold ma breath!)

[Kendog]

will be trading up to my next bike in a matter of weeks but dont know what to get yet any suggestions?

Thats another thread right there.

Not knowing anything about your riding style, size, bike preferences etc it's impossible to recommend a next bike for you. Some advice I can give is to test ride as many bikes as you can, it's the best way to find a bike that is right for you.

[90s]

This was discussed a while back, and quite a few engineerig types got on board and gave some details as to the determinants of whether higher octan fuels would benefit different engine types / bikes. I seem to remember that it was not recommended for certain bike types.
Also there was some discussion as to the real as opposed to marked ron or octane ratings at different garages.

As for me, 98 is hard to get but I run the GSX on 95. The cage - a 2L v6 sucks in 91 and hardly moves, but the higher the octane the better the performance AND economy.

[Bass]

I run the sprint on the highest octane fuel that I can get at the time.
It detests 91 and behaves accordingly.

[fireball]

i will be testing race gas in the FXR this weekend thanks to one of my buddies :rockon: here is hoping high octane doesnt let me down

[Grub]

I maintain records of every fill in the '90 and get 98 when I can.

the results are that 98 gives me 1 km per litre better economy and the costs work out the same as 91 or 95.

Therefore 98 is better as it runs cleaner and better

[Kwaka14]

Is the 98 Octane sold in NZ a true 98 octane ie. Ron+Mon readings /2? this is the Octane rating that[B] most manufacturers specify. Usually the advertised rating on Pumps (definitely when I've seen it in Northland) is the RON reading which is typically a few points hicgher than MON. The 12 is supposed to be fine on 91 octane but it pinks badly on NZ 91 as it's actually more like 89 i've been told so I always use 98 or as close to as I can get. It definitely is better for me as I don't get problems with preignition.

[TRAINING WHEELS]

98 octane is more effective in high performing vehicles although it wont hurt anything it burns best in these. Its cool to go up in octane i.e 91 to 95 to 96or 98 however going down in octane is not normally recomended (yea i know :innocent:).
As mentioned some bikes will run better, smoother, further etc with 98 but others wont even notice the diff as 98 burns cooler so high compession engins may notice more fuel economy. Low compression engins may burn cleaner under heavy loads....Let me know if someone knows more or different :yes:
Even though i get discounted fuel :shutup: i still run my Bike and Cage on 91...some times i will run 98 (in the cage) just to clean pipes and injecters a little more.
FYI: 91 & 98 do not mix to make 95 or 96. 98 will float above 91 (as far as i am awear i could be wrong)

[dangerous]

Its not just about Oct rating... down here we can only get 98 from BP, unlike all other fuels its NOT NZ made ie: shitest crap fuel money can buy... but Aussie made and modified for NZ ie: its a far superior fuel and thats the main reason most engines prefer it.
Remember Chalange? 100% imported and a much all round beter fuel than the shit here.

If ya want to go one beter use AvGas (not legel on the rd) ok so in the average engine theres no more HP infact you can often get a lesser Hp reading, but a beter start, beter idle, smother power etc, its about quality and NZ fuels sure as hell have none of that. :scooter:

[vifferman]

Remember Chalange? 100% imported and a much all round beter fuel than the shit here.

That's because although the group (Todds) that owned Challenge had the biggest single shareholding of the Marsden Point Oil Refinery (27%?), the "Gang of Four" got together and voted to stop them using fuel from the refinery, so they had to import it all, or buy it from the other companies at a hiked-up rate. Eventually they gave up and sold Challenge to Caltex.

[Coldrider]

Av gas is illegal on the road because it is leaded, but we are happy to have it spread by air all over the landscape aren't we.
Challenge imported their petrol from Singapore, octane was generally higher than stated, but a few tests indicated some batches had substandard additives for protection & easy starting, but quality still good.

[scumdog]

Av gas is illegal on the road because it is leaded, but we are happy to have it spread by air all over the landscape aren't we.
.

Wrong.
It's because there has no road tax been paid on it.

[Coldrider]

Wrong.
It's because there has no road tax been paid on it.
ohhh.... I stand corrected.

[Pancakes]

and it burns out catalytic converters, thats why the box where my pipes join rattles now:innocent:

[Coldrider]

and it burns out catalytic converters, thats why the box where my pipes join rattles now:innocent:
Leaded fuel corrodes exhaust pipes as well, lead free allows exhaust pipes to last far,far longer.

[dangerous]

Leaded fuel corrodes exhaust pipes as well, lead free allows exhaust pipes to last far,far longer.

Dont cear, lead is a beter coolent/lube and the toxens aint as bad as all that shit they shove in unleaded... but try n tell the greenies that :rockon:
But above all Avgas is a beter fuel with a more accurate oct.

[Coldrider]

Wrong.
It's because there has no road tax been paid on it.
Wrong, Right, Maybe, Maybe not, as well as, lead cannot be added to imported petrol, nor can lead be added to NZ refined petrol, further more it is illegal to supply leaded petrol.
It is allowed for aviation, jetboats, competition car & motorcyle sport.
http://www.knowledge-basket.co.nz/regs/regs/text/1995/1995270.txt
http://www.mfe.govt.nz/publications/ser/ser1997/html/chapter6.9.html
We are a greeny country remember.
Apparently no lead petrol has about 0.003g lead contamination.
Interesting is the onus is only the supply of.

[dogsnbikes]

I've been running my Triumph on 91 and seems fine so far.. Will give 98 a try.
I run my Triumph on BP Ultimate and have done so for the last six months and have notice a huge difference in milage and performance where as now get 18-19Ks/litre on the BP ultimate where as with the 95/91 was about 12-14
and unlocking the ECU and rewriting helps

[Delphinus]

I run my Triumph on BP Ultimate and have done so for the last six months and have notice a huge difference in milage and performance where as now get 18-19Ks/litre on the BP ultimate where as with the 95/91 was about 12-14
and unlocking the ECU and rewriting helps

Good to know :D
At the moment I'm getting about 16.5KM/L if I'm not TOO heavy on the wrist ;)

If I whip out the spread sheet and use 10L fill at current pricing.
16KM/L on 91 = 9.6c/KM
18KM/L on 98 = 9.2c/KM

So even if I just get another 2KM/L out of it the extra cost pays for itself... Theory works now to try the practise ;)

What do you mean unlocking the ECU and rewriting?
I've had the fuel mapping updated to latest from Triumph...

[laRIKin]

We use BP 86 in our Guzzi's, as it helps stop the pinking and they run better.
Mainly because of the shape of their combustion cambers as other big twins seem to get away with it.

And come to think of it, the KTM 640 single runs better on it, but does not pink.

[dogsnbikes]

What do you mean unlocking the ECU and rewriting?
I've had the fuel mapping updated to latest from Triumph...

basically by unlocking the Ecu means you can talyor the bikes computer programe to your spec's etc which makes power commander's and factory programes look very basic.......i:e I can get upto a extra 20hp without touching the engine etc

Not only does it change the fuel mapping but by setting your own fuel maps ie you could rewrite the ecu to run on just AV gas adjust the rev range up the red line limit, shorten or lengthen gear shifts so if you like to send your bike down the drag strip you could at the stroke of a key set your bike up just for the drags so really your opening up a lot of doors but you need to know someone that can unlock of where to get the programme to unlock your ecu:innocent:

[JT.]

All Jap vehicles are designed for 91

Wrong, they may run on it but they aren't designed for low octane crappy fuel. The factory manual for my old car, an '84 toyota levin recommends 100 octane. High performance NA cars and all turbo cars should be run on the highest octane possible. The timing should be set to make use of it other wise you are robbing power and economy.

[Deviant Esq]

Not all Japanese / high compression cars are designed to run on 100 octane gas. The Honda S2000 has pretty high compression and 240bhp extracted from a 2.0 litre four pot NA engine, and it's designed to run just as well on the 89 octane supplied in California. Not bad for a car with a 9000rpm redline and high compression.

For me? After reading a thread here a while ago saying the higher cost and octane of 98 or 95 fuel was of questionable benefit, I switched the NZ to 91 after having always used 98 in the past (as the engine has done high mileage). I've found that it runs better on 91 that it did on 98, and on top of that I get better economy as well. So with the bike running better on 91, as well as it costing less, I'd be sily to bother using higher octane fuel. On my next bike I'll be trying a few tanks of each pump fuel to decide which it runs best on and which I get the best economy out of, since it seems everything has a different preference.

[Coldrider]

By the way, Avgas is being looked at to the view of being unleaded some time soon.

[dangerous]

By the way, Avgas is being looked at to the view of being unleaded some time soon.

Ill beleive that when I see it.

[scumdog]

I have a feeling the 89 octane in California is better than our '91' at least.

(Thanks for pointing out there was a word missing Delphinus!)

[5cotty]

Can only run my GL1200I on 91 when I have no load or I dont use much throttle. It pinks like a bitch otherwise. :angry:

I have to say I cant tell ANY difference from 91 and the shell 95 as I still get the pinking:mellow:... But... The BP 98 makes a big difference and the old girl only pinks 2 up fully loaded uphill with the throttle wide open.

I love the BP98 because my bike loves it!:love:

From an economy point of view, I have noticed I get better milage on 91 but I think that may be because it limits the amount of "Twist in the wrist" :innocent: as opposed to the fuel doing anything.

[Pancakes]

Not all Japanese / high compression cars are designed to run on 100 octane gas. The Honda S2000 has pretty high compression and 240bhp extracted from a 2.0 litre four pot NA engine, and it's designed to run just as well on the 89 octane supplied in California. Not bad for a car with a 9000rpm redline and high compression.

For me? After reading a thread here a while ago saying the higher cost and octane of 98 or 95 fuel was of questionable benefit, I switched the NZ to 91 after having always used 98 in the past (as the engine has done high mileage). I've found that it runs better on 91 that it did on 98, and on top of that I get better economy as well. So with the bike running better on 91, as well as it costing less, I'd be sily to bother using higher octane fuel. On my next bike I'll be trying a few tanks of each pump fuel to decide which it runs best on and which I get the best economy out of, since it seems everything has a different preference.

In the US they normally have "smog states" cars and other cars in other states, I would think the ECU's are set differently to run on different gas.





Wrong, they may run on it but they aren't designed for low octane crappy fuel. The factory manual for my old car, an '84 toyota levin recommends 100 octane. High performance NA cars and all turbo cars should be run on the highest octane possible. The timing should be set to make use of it other wise you are robbing power and economy.

They kindof are designed for crappy fuel in that most new cars have knock sensors that will retard timing until the knock stops. You just aren't made aware the CPU has altered the timing. You can play with your computer to allow more advance and leaner running and wire in a knock sensor unit too. The most basic ones are a piezo speaker (tiny one) wired to be used like a mic' and the cumputer interprets the "noise" the engine is making. Like a persons ear but trained and reliable!

[delusionz]

On my 2007 Ninja 250R the manual states minimum 91 RON. For reference I'm running a compression ratio of 12.4:1 with stock intake, ngk iridium sparks & stock exhaust. 91 gives me the best acceleration, doesn't ping even at the redline of 13,000. I mostly use 95 because I ride at the redline for long periods. Have been thinking of filling up with 91 and adding a couple drops of octane booster, 92 or 93 would be perfect.

[Pancakes]

Dude, save your money on the iridium plugs and side-cut the std ones. You have to change them sooner but it's cheaper and it'll go better.

[Brian d marge]

Wrong, they may run on it but they aren't designed for low octane crappy fuel. The factory manual for my old car, an '84 toyota levin recommends 100 octane. High performance NA cars and all turbo cars should be run on the highest octane possible. The timing should be set to make use of it other wise you are robbing power and economy.

Yes sorry bout that My Royal Enfield also states a higher octane , but modern bikes ( and Ill stand corrected on cars ) are designed for 91 .

CBr250 can cold foul , and other problems , . It all depends on the pressures at flame edges , so if you dont have a standard Engine , or cannot change timings then yes 98 may be the answer ,

but as a rule Jap bikes ( cars , Ill stand corrected ) run 91.

Stephen

[NighthawkNZ]

I am running all my cars,and my Suzuki 1400 Intruda on the BP Ultimate 98 Octane and thay run a lot "sharper" and smoother an it. What are your views and experences??

I have started to run the VTR on 98 in the last couple of weeks so far she seems to run smother and idles better, and a few of noises and rattles are not as prominent… I don’t know if it the fuel or not but I will be sticking to it little longer any how

[saltydog]

Only ever use BP's 98 octane, suposed to be the best. The outboard also gets 98 but both the cages get just 91. Bikes are just a big toy so why bother putting weak fuel into them I say.

[zx10ruser]

definitly GULL 96, i think its labeled that but its 99. Running motocross i can definitly tell the difference when running this burns so clean.

[Mikkel]

Any performance engine will benefit from a higher octane rating.

As stated above the rate of combustion remains the same - I believe it's the temperature of the combustion that is lower for higher octane ratings. As such it's very very important for turbo and supercharged engines running high boosts since it'll help to keep everything nice and cool and reduce knocking.

While not crucial for NA engines, there will be less engine wear for high revving engines. I wouldn't bother with 98 octane for a normal family car or low performing motorcycle. At most I'd give it a tank of 98 every month or so to clean the system out a bit.
As a rule of thumb I guess you could say that if the displacement specific power output for a NA engine exceeds 80 hps/L then 98 wouldn't be a bad idea. For turbo cars I'd say go for it when you can.

I always try to run our vehicles on 98 octane - every now and again that's not possible though if we get out in the rural areas. Then 96 will have to do.

[homer]

Its not just about Oct rating... down here we can only get 98 from BP, unlike all other fuels its NOT NZ made ie: shitest crap fuel money can buy... but Aussie made and modified for NZ ie: its a far superior fuel and thats the main reason most engines prefer it.
Remember Chalange? 100% imported and a much all round beter fuel than the shit here.

If ya want to go one beter use AvGas (not legel on the rd) ok so in the average engine theres no more HP infact you can often get a lesser Hp reading, but a beter start, beter idle, smother power etc, its about quality and NZ fuels sure as hell have none of that. :scooter:

you will get lesser horsepower on a high octain fuel if your engine is low compression
if you engine is lower compression you are better and will get more horses from 91
Thats why when you put avgas in SOME bikes theres little difference
Wouldnt every one put 98 in other wise
after all its at least 8 oct difference
avgas is only 100 .....unless its changed actually its 100/130
100 is on the lean side 130 is the rich side

theres good info on the net

[JMemonic]

I have been biting my tongue over some of the posts here and seeing as this has been dredged up again.


Its not just about Oct rating... down here we can only get 98 from BP, unlike all other fuels its NOT NZ made ie: shitest crap fuel money can buy... but Aussie made and modified for NZ ie: its a far superior fuel and thats the main reason most engines prefer it.
Remember Challenge? 100% imported and a much all round better fuel than the shit here.

Challenge I will comer to a bit later, the majority of fuel used in NZ is imported, Marsden point can not produce enough petrol to satisfy our needs, we import fuel from a variety of locations, mostly Indonesia and Australia, here in Christchurch (Lyttelton to be precise) the same ships discharge fuel to all the different companies, on very rare occasions two companies may purchase fuel from the middle east the the parent owners of the other two will not accept but this is rare. There are only 2 grades delivered 91 RON and 96 RON plus other goodies like bitumen, avgas, and jet fuel.

In fact one of the points you make is the fuel is not NZ made, thank god the refinery here was never up to international standards and could not on the day of completion process most the crude we find around our shores into petrol you could use in you vehicles.

As I understand it (from what I could understand when the industrial chemist told me) it is possible to make Kerosene 100 RON with additives, it wont run your car well but it will be 100 RON, thus it is very conceivable that BP can alter 96 or even 91 to 98 with an additive (good ol Wynns octane booster here).

Dangerous is right "Its not just about Oct rating"



By the way, Avgas is being looked at to the view of being unleaded some time soon.

A huge safety issue with this and I suspect many of the piston engine aircraft in operation around NZ would have to be pulled from service, jet engines would not be affected.


That's because although the group (Todds) that owned Challenge had the biggest single shareholding of the Marsden Point Oil Refinery (27%?), the "Gang of Four" got together and voted to stop them using fuel from the refinery, so they had to import it all, or buy it from the other companies at a hiked-up rate. Eventually they gave up and sold Challenge to Caltex.

Challenge was called so because it was owned by Fletcher Challenge, it was an investment nothing more, a way to make money, and yes they could not get fuel from Marsden Point, which might have been a good thing, all of their fuel was imported directly out of refinery's in Australia, and was a better quality fuel, not blended and the 96 would often reach the pump with an MON of 97-98, they went under as such when Fletcher's decided petrol was not a core business and spun it off out into Rubicon a subsidery company that in turn decided it was not part of its core and then offered the whole organisation up as going concern, Caltex (Texco) paid up end of story, remember all Challenge stations were originally independent operators who spent a lot of their own money converting to carry that product, some of them got royally screwed in the end.

[motorbyclist]

All Jap vehicles are designed for 91


my dirt bike manual specifies to run on 95 octane RON, seeing as "91" here is closer to 86, i run that on "98"

dirtbike runs 12.5:1 - kickstart only, manual decompression, and it likes to kick back:buggerd:


The factory spec compression ration on the FXR150 engine is 10.7:1. I found that 98 octane in summer made a noticeable difference to the way my one ran.

same here, on my old one and my little brothers one. noticable differnce in power

on my vfr400 i get a 10% better mileage running 98 rather than 91

last time i bought mobil (ran out of gas outside station) i only took 5 bucks (and had to go inside to prepay despite the eftpos at pump). later that day and next morning i had serious starting problems, seemed like water was in the fuel or something.



ALSO, and this is interesting, i used my dirtbike as a good test, along with my riding mate to find the best fuel. i've got a '98 yamaha yz400f and he has the '03 yz426f. we did fiddle with the mix a bit to try to improve performance on different fuels. ran on CR8E plugs, clean UNI filter on mine and twin air on his. to memory, here's the results:

shell: needed to clean sparkplug in 3 hours it was so filthy, 9 hours and they were buggered:crazy:
caltex: 15 hours before problems emerged - i would like to know what "techron" is
GULL: we would try it, it ran well on my road bike, but since the ethanol addtion, fears of water content and rubber lines/plastic tank damage have scared us off it
BP 98: we get about 30 hours or more to a plug:yes:

little brother's '04 yz250f fares similarly

bonus is that there is a bp on our way to the motorway, but it sucks when we go out for a few days and have to use lesser fuels


oh, and final ad for BP, the guys at the two stations i frequent on my commute both told me to ignore prepay and just hit the fill button. never taken my helmet off either - just pump, pay and go:cool: (to be fair, one of them was a fellow biker)