For you 125 GP Fans

[Ivan]

Well this is starting to take off I cant view the pics for some reason but I seen em else were

Moriwaki GP Mono, I heard Harc Pro and also by the looks HRC
are developing the future of the 125 class, using a 250 cc Four stroke single engine,

Its basically the same as what happened in moto x the 125 2 strokes had 250 4s allowed and now you dont see a2 stroke line on the grid

The day the 2 stroke Scream goes from the track It will be a sad day indeed

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=135726

[Ivan]

I wouldthink HRC are just using a CRF engine for testing the bike and actually build a genuine road race engien???

[Romeo]

Sick, lets hope they make a road legal race replica for the future L-platers like me ;P.

[Ivan]

I doubt it,


I mean the RS doesnt corner to well if you dont crank it over, itd be shit on the road haha

[Ivan]

Hmmm i Have a thought of using TZR250 rims same width as RS, on my 93 Rolling Chassis and running a 250 engine in it in formula 3 for some fun and a bit more track time.

[Buddha#81]

Hmmm i Have a thought of using TZR250 rims same width as RS, on my 93 Rolling Chassis and running a 250 engine in it in formula 3 for some fun and a bit more track time.

Fark you can't even finish your bucket what makes you think you can build a Mini mono. Send the frame down here and let me do it.

[gav]

Seen this? Its pretty cool, 450 four stroke single road race bike, whats neat is it uses the standard MX bike frame rather than reframed into a GP chassis.
http://www.kawasakilive.com/lagunaseca/blog/post.aspx?t=a&id=37

[Brian d marge]

Seen this? Its pretty cool, 450 four stroke single road race bike, whats neat is it uses the standard MX bike frame rather than reframed into a GP chassis.
http://www.kawasakilive.com/lagunaseca/blog/post.aspx?t=a&id=37

Not sure about the frame .. Geometry's and all that ( would have to check )

But that exhaust is a clever idea , thats nice ,,,I like that

Stephen

[k14]

Not sure about the frame .. Geometry's and all that ( would have to check )

But that exhaust is a clever idea , thats nice ,,,I like that

Stephen
Yes very cool indeed but I wouldnt want to ride it. A mx frame isn't designed to cope with doing 200+ kph etc. The swingarm would be a piece of crap and the geometry would be all up the wack. Good on them for making it though, probably be the norm in a few years time.

[Sully60]

Yes very cool indeed but I wouldnt want to ride it. A mx frame isn't designed to cope with doing 200+ kph etc. The swingarm would be a piece of crap and the geometry would be all up the wack. Good on them for making it though, probably be the norm in a few years time.

Why wouldn't that frame and swingarm handle 200 kph? Big Motards get pretty close to 180 kmh as is and thats when the rider is hanging out in the breeze. You have to remember the stresses that MX bikes are designed to cope with. The engineering of MX frames has come a long way since alloy frames were first conceived.
From the picture the geometry looks pretty good and the things looks pretty short.

I'd buy it tommorrow! If I had any money!

One more thing, Roland Sands built it, nuff said

[k14]

Why wouldn't that frame and swingarm handle 200 kph? Big Motards get pretty close to 180 kmh as is and thats when the rider is hanging out in the breeze. You have to remember the stresses that MX bikes are designed to cope with. The engineering of MX frames has come a long way since alloy frames were first conceived.
From the picture the geometry looks pretty good and the things looks pretty short.

I'd buy it tommorrow! If I had any money!

One more thing, Roland Sands built it, nuff said
So you can tell the rake, trail, swingarm angle etc all from the photo? Woah, you're good.

Mx frames are designed to cope with going over bumps and jumps, absorbing big impacts and lowish speeds. Comparing that frame to what its trying to emulate (a 250GP bike) is like apples and oranges. Not one aspect of the frame geometry, flex etc will be the same. First of all the swingarm is a little matchstick, look at the 250 gp ones. The aprilias are full carbon fibre (read: stiff and rigid) and the hondas are quite big and chunky alloy. Even the swingarm and frame on my 125 is beefier and that doesn't have to handle half the power and 1/4 of the torque of the 450.

Not trying to cut the guy down, its an awesome machine and probably very cool to ride. At the moment however it wouldn't be within a mile of a 250GP bike, I'm sure in years to come they will become more and more common though. This is pretty much how the RS125 honda came to existence. In the early to mid 80's it started with putting CR125's in roadracing frames and racing them. Then the two engines took their own paths into what they are today. The same thing is happening at the moment and its only a matter of time before the factories start producing these themselves in road race form.

[Ivan]

Yeah I cant view it can someone upload a pic of it???? not a link an actual saved picture please?

HOnestly I dont think the Moto x engine will cope,

The Motard guys at the momment are complaining that the straight at manfield is to much for them and these are the 450 guys,


But then again Jason Easton is doing it perfectly well

[Sketchy_Racer]

The motor should cope just fine so long as engine temps are keeps good (which also should be fine)

remeber even as MX racers.. these motors ar on the limit the whole race.. sure the straights aren't as long, but the amount of revs are still the same. I recon it would be a pig to ride though... can anyone say FLEX

[HenryDorsetCase]

I think it would go surprisingly well. remember they are light and only 60hp or so.

If you look at the youtube video linked in the other (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1174101#post1174101) thread, they talk about rotating the thing forward and using a lowered shock. so a long swingarm and road forks gives good geometry.

Roland Sands says he liked it, and he doesnt just build choppers on TV: he won the AMA 250GP series one year and competed for many years: he can ride, AND he knows what a racebike should go like.

Like someone else said, Id buy one like a shot.

[Brian d marge]

The use of a road bike front end would allow the tipping forward of the frame , moving the COG ,

the length of the swingarm may then become an Issue ...

I think Easton has the right Idea ,, ,,, though I doo like that exhaust !!!

It would be a great entry class ...

Stephen

[Sully60]

So you can tell the rake, trail, swingarm angle etc all from the photo? Woah, you're good.

Mx frames are designed to cope with going over bumps and jumps, absorbing big impacts and lowish speeds. Comparing that frame to what its trying to emulate (a 250GP bike) is like apples and oranges. Not one aspect of the frame geometry, flex etc will be the same. First of all the swingarm is a little matchstick, look at the 250 gp ones. The aprilias are full carbon fibre (read: stiff and rigid) and the hondas are quite big and chunky alloy. Even the swingarm and frame on my 125 is beefier and that doesn't have to handle half the power and 1/4 of the torque of the 450.

Not trying to cut the guy down, its an awesome machine and probably very cool to ride. At the moment however it wouldn't be within a mile of a 250GP bike, I'm sure in years to come they will become more and more common though. This is pretty much how the RS125 honda came to existence. In the early to mid 80's it started with putting CR125's in roadracing frames and racing them. Then the two engines took their own paths into what they are today. The same thing is happening at the moment and its only a matter of time before the factories start producing these themselves in road race form.

Where did I make a comparison to GP bikes? I was only stating it would probably handle the speed issue well and be a good start for a pretty fun to ride roadrace bike.

I know you'll probably wont like it but unless they can make them clean and green and hippy friendly cool little two smokers won't be here for too much longer -that would be a sad day-


You don't have to be a genius to figure out the thing would turn okay, look at the angle of the forks and how short it looks.

[Sparky Bills]

My boss saw those bikes last time he was in Japan. Id own one in a heart beat!

Think how good it would be at Taupo!

:rockon:

[k14]

Where did I make a comparison to GP bikes? I was only stating it would probably be a good start for a pretty fun to ride roadrace bike.
No where, I made the comparison with a GP bike.

I know you'll probably wont like it but unless they can make them clean and green and hippy friendly cool little two smokers won't be here for too much longer -that would be a sad day-
Yep I know, they are slated to be phased out from 2010 in the world champs, will be a sad sad day indeed

You don't have to be a genius to figure out the thing would turn okay, look at the angle of the forks and how short it looks.
There's no way to tell unless you rode it. Its probably light but as I said to go fast is another thing. If those engines only put out 60hp it would struggle quite badly to keep up with a 125.

[Ivan]

My boss saw those bikes last time he was in Japan. Id own one in a heart beat!

Think how good it would be at Taupo!

:rockon:

Yeah aye, THat thing would rule at Taupo, especially the short Taupo circuit as you dont really hit much top speed there, The drive from the torque would be mint out of turn 1,

Up at new years me Sketchy and all that were on track and there was a guy with a 1993 RS125 running a CRF450 engine it, It blew past all us 125s like we were sitting still even Adam Chambers, But It completly destroyed its tires and they were brand new but man It worked well and was fast, But when I was at Manfield nats, He just wasnt therehe was about 7th I think,

Jason Eastons one is perfect but isa custom chassis only running RS running gear eg Forks and shocks

[Ivan]

Where did I make a comparison to GP bikes? I was only stating it would probably handle the speed issue well and be a good start for a pretty fun to ride roadrace bike.

I know you'll probably wont like it but unless they can make them clean and green and hippy friendly cool little two smokers won't be here for too much longer -that would be a sad day-


You don't have to be a genius to figure out the thing would turn okay, look at the angle of the forks and how short it looks.


Hey Craig,

Us 125 guys have clean green 125s unlike you dirty bucket racers:yawn:
And you bucket racers even try get your four strokes like that 2 aye

Especially Fishy his one every now and again puffs some nice blue smoke

[Sully60]

Hey Craig,

Us 125 guys have clean green 125s unlike you dirty bucket racers:yawn:
And you bucket racers even try get your four strokes like that 2 aye

Especially Fishy his one every now and again puffs some nice blue smoke

You could only know this if you were behind us Ivan!
Need I say more?

[Sully60]

Its probably light but as I said to go fast is another thing. If those engines only put out 60hp it would struggle quite badly to keep up with a 125.

Jasons Eastons Tigcraft is an example of using only 50hp to achieve some pretty good results. Top speeds may be similar but getting out of the corner a 450 would just jump a 125. Having raced both 125s and 450 SM's I can vouch for this. So different tracks would see different results.

The thing that limits the ability of this type of engine is they're not designed to run flat out at high revs for any length of time and they also aren't supposed to be positive g loaded for long periods of time which happens a lot on roadrace tracks( relative to a motorcross or offroad environment). Jason has had alot of issues surrounding oil control with his bike and has had to come up with some pretty innovative ways to solve these problems. All these things would have to be addressed by manufacturers if this is the way they want to proceed.

BTW: Does anybody in this thread remember seeing a Ducati Supermono?
One cylinder, two conrods one not connected to the piston, 12000 rpm from 550cc, 70ish bhp

[Ivan]

Yeah, As knowing from owning a high tuned DR350 which aint a racebike I know but it went hard the thing had lotsof outer corner drive real well but struggled when you held it pinned and yeah the engine liked getting REALLY HOT!!!!


OH BTW Craig its when Im lapping you guys

[Sully60]

OH BTW Craig its when Im lapping you guys

You're wasted in your current day job Ivan.(if you actually have a job then so is your employer!) The comedy world could do with more people like you.

Bring on the 26th when I go :bye:

Better get ready to suck down a great big cool can of WHOOPASS!

[Ivan]

Craig Ill get the lead, Stop after lap 1 grab one of Baydens beers, Skull it and keep going and still whoop yo ass

[Sully60]

Craig Ill get the lead, Stop after lap 1 grab one of Baydens beers, Skull it and keep going and still whoop yo ass

Those will be my beers son, and you have to earn them!

[gav]

Pics for Ivan!
Hey K14, you do know who Roland Sands is don't you? He's an ex 250AMA National champ. He builds fast bikes and rides them hard, I'm sure he'd hose off your 125 no problems!
Actually the sooner the four strokes take over from the two strokes the better. At the moment its a Honda vs Aprilia competition with Honda already pulling the pin on their two stroke development. Just imagine the number of manufacturers who'll be looking at running four stroke singles? I'd say most the manufacturers off Supermoto bikes would be a starter as well as privateer teams with factory backing like the Kawi pictured and the Moriwaki effort etc, bring it on!

[Ivan]

Hahahaha

Ok then,

Well Im gonna try

[HenryDorsetCase]

....seeing a Ducati Supermono?
One cylinder, two conrods one not connected to the piston, 12000 rpm from 550cc, 70ish bhp

I sure do. very cool. other cool single cylinder racebikes: Bimota BB1 (mmmm)

[Ivan]

Pics for Ivan!
Hey K14, you do know who Roland Sands is don't you? He's an ex 250AMA National champ. He builds fast bikes and rides them hard, I'm sure he'd hose off your 125 no problems!
Actually the sooner the four strokes take over from the two strokes the better. At the moment its a Honda vs Aprilia competition with Honda already pulling the pin on their two stroke development. Just imagine the number of manufacturers who'll be looking at running four stroke singles? I'd say most the manufacturers off Supermoto bikes would be a starter as well as privateer teams with factory backing like the Kawi pictured and the Moriwaki effort etc, bring it on!



Gav Bling coming your way,

That bike is Sexy as, Wow its awsome,

[Ivan]

Here guys here some GP Monos

[xwhatsit]

Hell yes! The world has come to its senses once again -- mono is mainstream!! :first:

Well if they can run 250 thumpers in the 125 class, does this now mean they can run 500 thumpers in the 250 class? :drool:

[Sketchy_Racer]

YOU GET OUT!!

Why have the friggen eco nazis have to come and ruin a class that cleary has great competion?? because we burn a bit of oil?? Ohh FFS how many friggen race bikes are there?? and how much of a difference is a few little race bikes really going to make. Especially compared to the fucking Yanks and thier over grown fucken SUV pieces of shit with their 10 litre engines

This worlk makes me sick

[Ivan]

I agree with Glen here,

Serious these bikes are cool, But 2 things

What is wrong with a class that is working and having better racing than moto GP????? I meanthe lead changes more? You dont see any smoke really except for initial start up, Then itclears,

The Class works fine then they are going to come in and wreck it???



2nd thing,

These bikes are 125 GP bike chassis EG Honda RS125 or TZ125, With A CRF YZF RMX KXF engine in them. These bikes are nto porpouse built GP racers, They are Hybrids using a GP Chassis, And A production engine,

Really I say Awsome they built these bikes, But give them there own class,
And I still reckon a 125 is going to blow these out the water, The only advantage they have is initial launch, and then outa corner drive no top end advantage, Wereas the standered RS is Lighter Chassis is designed for this engine, Suspension designed for this engine and frame, And is good at top end revs, I still reckon a fast rider on a125 is going to blow these out the water, I bet if you put one of these out at world 125, you wont see them be in the top 5

[HenryDorsetCase]

Ive been thinking about the issues raised about cooling, and oil control.

The guy who built the Aprilia RS250 with the Aprilia SXV550 motor put a larger oil tank in it (dry sump motor): went up by 2 or 3 litres the idea being that the larger oil volume would allow more heat to be shed into it given the change of use. You could do the same with the radiator as well I would think. more coolant volume, larger rad etc, again to try and keep the thing cool.

If this sort of config is to replace existing two strokes, and given the amount of power they want to extract, then high maintenance (it seems to me) is a fact of life. Of course the cost of that maintenance is more, what with all the extra whirly bits whirling around, but its only for one cylinder so that has a limiting effect.

Have a look here (
http://www.spagforth.com/rsxv550_project_log.htm) if you want to see the blog of the SXV into the RS250 and you havent seen it before......


as another point, it seems to me that this sort of conversion would be easier than converting an average street bike to go racing, once you'd assembled the bits. though until you try.....

[Ivan]

Yeah thats cool, Cept these bikes aint GP bikes


And yourgoingtoruin a class with good racing basically to make a world bucket racing championship,


Serious what do you prefer to hear?


A nice Crisp 125 screaming past, or a big ass single thumping by?


I know what I prefer

[HenryDorsetCase]

I agree with Glen here,

Serious these bikes are cool, But 2 things

What is wrong with a class that is working and having better racing than moto GP????? I meanthe lead changes more? You dont see any smoke really except for initial start up, Then itclears,

The Class works fine then they are going to come in and wreck it???



2nd thing,

These bikes are 125 GP bike chassis EG Honda RS125 or TZ125, With A CRF YZF RMX KXF engine in them. These bikes are nto porpouse built GP racers, They are Hybrids using a GP Chassis, And A production engine,

Really I say Awsome they built these bikes, But give them there own class,
And I still reckon a 125 is going to blow these out the water, The only advantage they have is initial launch, and then outa corner drive no top end advantage, Wereas the standered RS is Lighter Chassis is designed for this engine, Suspension designed for this engine and frame, And is good at top end revs, I still reckon a fast rider on a125 is going to blow these out the water, I bet if you put one of these out at world 125, you wont see them be in the top 5

I dont think thats the issue to be honest. the 450 MX conversion bikes we were originally talking about were proposed (and thats important, its only a blue sky exercise at this point) as a cheap way of entry to a race bike that is more suitable to someone going up from entry level racing. Presently those people jump straight onto a (as Roland Sands says) a 450 pound, 100+ BHP 600: given these are young people then thats preceived as too much of a jump. they talk about 125 GP racers also, and the idea is thats fine IF you weigh 52 kg and are 5'2 tall.

So to summarise, its an adjunct to, not a replacement for the 125 class, and given the writing might be on the wall for 2 strokes, a "what if" type of exercise. Bear in mind too, that there is NO US 250GP class anymore. US racing is completely dominated by street bikes/superbikes. Not saying its a good or bad thing, its just how it is.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yeah thats cool, Cept these bikes aint GP bikes


And yourgoingtoruin a class with good racing basically to make a world bucket racing championship,


Serious what do you prefer to hear?


A nice Crisp 125 screaming past, or a big ass single thumping by?


I know what I prefer

big ass single any day.

but I'm not going to do anything... and as I say above, this is a proposal only. and US based at that.

[Ivan]

Yip I agree there,


Well these aint cheap tho.


To buy a chassis is afew grand for a good roller then 3-4 grand for engine, then at least 3 grand for mounting it and making it fit, your looking at well over 10 grand before your completed when you could buy a 125all ready made same horsepower and less moving parts in side

[HenryDorsetCase]

the 45o MX based proposal is the MX bike frame subframe swingarm engine. Graft on forks, new shock rearsets and Motard wheels and a race fairing, go racing. Again, the US situation is quite different to here, but given the parameters above and using mostly new parts then it would be at least price competitve with other forms of racing.

If you havent read it, read the interview with Gavin Trippe which I linked above, he does address most of the points you're raising (which I acknowledge are valid ones, but most can, I think, be answered)


Their proposal is to make it affordable by requiring that the original frame be used. they refer to the junior dirt track class which is also based on these bikes. the rule makers left the frames "open" so now to be competitive they have to use a $12000 Ron Wood or C & J frame, which defeats the purpose of the class.... hence the requirement to use the original frame.

[Sketchy_Racer]

A few points here.

Yes there is still a 250GP class in US. It runs with the USGPRU series and usually have about 20-30 bikes at each meeting. Yes not a lot but there is still a class.

oh, and another myth. I believe that largly why people are moving away from the 2T GP classes is because they have the assumption that they cost millions to maintain and keep compeditive.

YOU ARE WRONG

I am a 17yo apprentice on lousy apprentice wages and i still earn enough to just scrape by paying with my racing (so long as nothing goes wrong!)
And thats with a bike that is compeditive in the nationals. I'd like to see you find any other class (F3 - pro twins etc..) that you could be compeditive in on a wage like mine!!

The reason people are liking these new thumpers is because they can be lazy racers. and tuners. Once the motor is setup it runs pretty much as well as it did on the dyno anywhere else. So what if you have to change a few jets.. stop being so damn lazy and learn a few skills!!

Then there's the riding. People also like them because they can screw things up and get away with it. Stuff a gear change? use the torque of a 4T to fix it.. good rider?? i think not. Lazy!
Screw a gear change on a GP 2T?? your gonna get punished! Don't screw up.

Its fustrating, because 99% of the people that like the idea of changing to 4T haven't even ridden a 2T GP bike! SO most ideas and theorys about them are just peoples imaginations!

I hate inaccurate assumptions on stuff. Be informed, then make a decision!

Rant over
-Glen

[Tim 39]

A few points here.

Yes there is still a 250GP class in US. It runs with the USGPRU series and usually have about 20-30 bikes at each meeting. Yes not a lot but there is still a class.

oh, and another myth. I believe that largly why people are moving away from the 2T GP classes is because they have the assumption that they cost millions to maintain and keep compeditive.

YOU ARE WRONG

I am a 17yo apprentice on lousy apprentice wages and i still earn enough to just scrape by paying with my racing (so long as nothing goes wrong!)
And thats with a bike that is compeditive in the nationals. I'd like to see you find any other class (F3 - pro twins etc..) that you could be compeditive in on a wage like mine!!

The reason people are liking these new thumpers is because they can be lazy racers. and tuners. Once the motor is setup it runs pretty much as well as it did on the dyno anywhere else. So what if you have to change a few jets.. stop being so damn lazy and learn a few skills!!

Then there's the riding. People also like them because they can screw things up and get away with it. Stuff a gear change? use the torque of a 4T to fix it.. good rider?? i think not. Lazy!
Screw a gear change on a GP 2T?? your gonna get punished! Don't screw up.

Its fustrating, because 99% of the people that like the idea of changing to 4T haven't even ridden a 2T GP bike! SO most ideas and theorys about them are just peoples imaginations!

I hate inaccurate assumptions on stuff. Be informed, then make a decision!

Rant over
-Glen

I agree with all of that too, maintenance on a tuned 2 stroke is higher than a tuned 4 stroke, but is far cheaper. on a Tuned 4 stroke (SV's dont count as they are mini tractor motors) maintenance is still required regularly and is very expensive and much more difficult.
125gp bikes are very easy to work on.

[Tim 39]

did I mention half of what makes 125GP so great is the bikes amazing handling. With a big dirty 4 stroke in there they just wouldnt be the same. To be any good at all they'd need to redesign a motor to use and the frame to put it in, rather than just chucking a motox motor into a 125gp bike.

I haven't yet seen someone ride a 125GP bike for the first time without coming in with a huge smile saying "those things are awesome!"
I think putting a 4 stroke in the 250 bikes wouldnt be so bad as they are a lot bigger and heavier anyway, so the difference wouldnt be as noticable

[Sully60]

A few points here.



YOU ARE WRONG

I am a 17yo apprentice on lousy apprentice wages and i still earn enough to just scrape by paying with my racing (so long as nothing goes wrong!)
And thats with a bike that is compeditive in the nationals. I'd like to see you find any other class (F3 - pro twins etc..) that you could be compeditive in on a wage like mine!!

The reason people are liking these new thumpers is because they can be lazy racers. and tuners. Once the motor is setup it runs pretty much as well as it did on the dyno anywhere else. So what if you have to change a few jets.. stop being so damn lazy and learn a few skills!!

Then there's the riding. People also like them because they can screw things up and get away with it. Stuff a gear change? use the torque of a 4T to fix it.. good rider?? i think not. Lazy!
Screw a gear change on a GP 2T?? your gonna get punished! Don't screw up.

Its fustrating, because 99% of the people that like the idea of changing to 4T haven't even ridden a 2T GP bike! SO most ideas and theorys about them are just peoples imaginations!

I hate inaccurate assumptions on stuff. Be informed, then make a decision!

Rant over
-Glen


Some good stuff here Glen
But thats from your perspective. When I was your age all these things applied, now I have responsilbilities such as rent/mortage, wife, child, etc etc I have found the most valuable resource to be time.
I have an amazingly understanding partner who lets me spend an inordinate amount of time fiddling with my stable of highly prepared race machinery:msn-wink: But something somewhere eventually has to give.

I know his name has shown up in this thread more than once but take a look at Jason Easton, surely you don't regard him as lazy?
To race any motorcycle competitively you constantly update/develop/retune so there are skills to be learned regardless of what type of machine you race.
Lazy riding??? Sorry I don't buy this, it takes little effort to change down two,three, four gears going into a corner to keep the revs in the right range.(especially with no back torque) If you come out of a corner in two higher gear on a 125 (and you have a brain) you'll only do it once.
You've probably made an assumption on what its like to ride a big single.
The crank from one of these engines (450cc) would almost weigh the same as an entire 125 gp motor (not the gearbox also) and they spin at close to the same rpm as a 125 so you may be lazier with your left foot but man your gunna have to put the big effort into stopping the thing and turning it compared to a 125.

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups!

ReRant over!

[Ivan]

Good points from both opinions,

Now heres my thoughts,


Yes a 125 rider requires alot of skill to get the gear change crucial, as other wise he just runs outa power, were as a four stroke rider can say slap down 1 gear this is from my experience riding four stroke singles btw

(DR350 DRZ400 with Yoshi kit And a GB500 bored to 600) plus others


You can easily leave a gear, to high and pull good torque from it, were as you cant on a 2 stroke with out clutch,

Cornering on a 125 tip in carry heapsa corner speed apply lots of gas drive out screaming the engine,

Single Button off and try tip in actually is alot more difficult, Once youve got it turning its fine, of road you normally help turn with the back stepped out as it impresses the chicks:nono: but its harder to tip in


Tuning on day


The 125 rider needs to ahve his jettign etc tunedperfectly to barametric pressuresetc were as the 4 stroke guy can through his bike on Dyno slap on some parts jet the carb to suit, Keep going,


Temperature drops,

The four stroke works pretty much the same in this condition,

Were as the 125 jettign goes up the crapper


So really in the long run the 125 requires more but also makes it better racing,

I mean serious on race day tommorow ill set my temp gauge up get the right air pressure alter my jet to suit go out ride it thats it,


A 4T requires Pistons cam chains head gaskets valves oil etc

A 2T requires a piston maybe a Oring in the head if its getting old, some 2T oil in the fuel and Gear box oil changed every few rounds


I mean serious


Do a piston change takes on average an hour yip I know you can do it fast but just checking barrel coating etc,


Thatsit really

500 K's on a piston almost a season
2000 K's on a crank you work the maths out


I mean they not that hard im not insulting him but Sketchy hadnt had a bottom end apart before on a bike he did his RS real fast and got good performance out his engine

I mean its pretty simple


GO THE FUCKEN 2 STROKE FUCKERS

[Pancakes]

SR etc, you are assuming that people have time to service the bikes and stuff too. Some just want to go racing and don't care if they're not competitive. They want to buy something cheap and not have to take time to pull it down regularly and the normal down-side to that is you'll get blown away. The answer is to make a class with stock everything pretty much. Frame, motor etc. Just change shocks (to a class standard?) front forks brakes wheels and tyres. I don't see that this would compete with any other race classes where bike developments play a good part in speed and the stock motor classes where you need to buy a frame at great cost if you want to run well. I really respect people who make the sacriface financially and in time to go racing, what a worthwile thing to do! Fricken awesome! Also with 2 strokes being banned for the environment? I don't doubt you but WTF? 4 strokes still aren't being driven anywhere, you have spectators vehicles, the impact of the actual track and at a higher level the sponsorship $$ are only worth it to the sponsors because they lead to consumers buying mainly electronis and stuff! People are wastefull in general and I'd be suprised if stopping 2 stroke racing/riding will make any difference! What kind of airmiles etc for and Iraq war or two? Should ban those!

[Sketchy_Racer]

If your after a Cheap non compeditive race class, go to street stock

remeber we are talking about RACING here where the goal is to win. What everyone is trying to do it create a class that is cheap enough for most people to be compeditive in.

As for 125s and being high in maintainace??

500kms on a piston will last a season. i can easily do one in 30 mins.. try do an oil change on any other bike that quick!

Changing the oil is a common that relates to ANY bike if it's looked after.

2000kms you have to do a crank. It cost me $600 for ALL the bearings seals and piston kit and crank. It took me 3 hours to do the WHOLE rebuild.

Now tell me if that is excessive??

Again look at the prices. The RS is SO cheap. $600 for a full motor worth of parts?? Good luck finding them anywhere else!

And also if you do screw up and crash.. (like i have just done) I bent forks, tripple clamps...

All the new parts for my forks cost me $500.

Thats both lower fork legs. with all new seals bushes clips etc.
and a new front axel.. and new wheel bearings.. handle bars

You WILL not find anything cheaper than these bike's when it comes to serious compeditve racing!!

[Ivan]

Yeah

Racing is expensive


Serious you run a 450 or similar and your gonna chewtires so fast I know from seeing guys who have done it

[CM2005]

yeah, I'm thinking of saving for a 125GP bike.. Bring back the 250 class!!!!

[Sully60]

Yeah

Racing is expensive


Serious you run a 450 or similar and your gonna chewtires so fast I know from seeing guys who have done it

I think the reason a bike like this "chewtires" would be more of a question of tyre choice and suspension setup. I did approximately five solid hours on a dunlop slick on my old YZ motard and you know how I used to ride that thing Ivan. In simple terms, same motor, different suspension.
As I said earlier development for competition never ends and

[Ivan]

Tru Sully tru,


Sorry dont remember your YZinger motard either lol

[Pancakes]

Massive apology! That sounds way cheaper than I thought! Nice site Sketchy.

[gav]

I prefer my 125's four at a time!


(Haven't I already posted this? What happened to it?)

[CM2005]

That roland sands bike... r u sure it's an MX frame? i watched jace easton at aperon, spectacular, i helped him get his bike off his ute, light as. never touched a 125GP, but i LOVE the 2smokers, (anyone got 2smoker road 250, cash waiting), sad they'll disappear. i remember the robert holden supermono, nice bike. the 4t's should be a separate class, and not associated with the 125/250GP's, which are definitely more exciting than watching stoner win all the time.

bling gav for the PB bike pr0n.

[Sully60]

[QUOTE=CM2005;1179930]That roland sands bike... r u sure it's an MX frame? QUOTE]

Sure is, KX450 frame. Hard to tell from the photos but I wouldn't be surprised if its had a little "chop" job done on the steering head. This thing would be quite a different animal from Jasons bike more 250GP size not like the midget machine 125 size torture device (the opinion of a champion pie eater).

[Racey Rider]

Cheap 93 Rs125 on trademe (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=115075713)at the moment if anyone's keen to give it a go.

Would like to try 125's myself one day, but think my weight (80kgs)would be a big disadvantage compared to you feather weights.

Would the rider weight issue be more or less of a problem compared to riding streetstock bikes?

[gav]

Seems the 450 single concept might be gaining some ground.

http://www.450moto.com/

[k14]

Cheap 93 Rs125 on trademe (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=115075713)at the moment if anyone's keen to give it a go.

Would like to try 125's myself one day, but think my weight (80kgs)would be a big disadvantage compared to you feather weights.

Would the rider weight issue be more or less of a problem compared to riding streetstock bikes?
Thats not cheap, thats a ripoff. He's dreaming. Cheap is what I sold my 91 for ($1000).

[gav]

Or you could buy Jason Eastons Tigcraft, its up for sale!
http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.asp?id=116830853