Proposed new wet tyre rule

[Kickaha]

At a MNZ meeting today and they are looking at bringing a new rule in regarding wet conditions

Rather than declaring a meeting wet and leaving it the riders to choose what tyres they will run they will look at it by a "Race by Race" situation and declare individual races "wet"

If a race is declared "wet", then wet tyres must be used (no grooved slicks)

This will apply to all classes from F1, Sidecars, to Buckets and all classes in between

Personally I am not in favour of it,any thoughts from the rest of you?

[k14]

Argh, why can't they just leave it as is. This is so annoying. All the other places in the world seem to be able to function with the same set of rules MNZ has in place fine so why do we need to change it?? If its slightly damp and someone wants to take a risk going out on slicks then thats their decision.

[Ivan]

Yip I agree with K14

[Moss 16]

So what would hapen if the track dries out on the warm up lap? like what hapend at the nationals at Teretonga when all the 125's went out on wets and raced in the dry? I cant remember the meeting being declared wet but the race before the 125's certainly was!

This will just cause more problems, because of some one falls off in a race like the above all they have to say is "you said I had to go out on wets" and the person who made the call would be responsible!

[k14]

So what would hapen if the track dries out on the warm up lap? like what hapend at the nationals at Teretonga when all the 125's went out on wets and raced in the dry? I cant remember the meeting being declared wet but the race before the 125's certainly was!

This will just cause more problems, because of some one falls off in a race like the above all they have to say is "you said I had to go out on wets" and the person who made the call would be responsible!
Yep exactly, this also happened again to the 125's at Ruapuna. Meet was declared wet and it was still a 50/50 call as to wets or slicks. In the end slicks would have been the proper choice, I decided to take a gamble and went front wet and rear slick (everyone else on the track were on full wets). Co-incidentally I lost the front on the last corner because the wet was totally torn to shreds. Those 10 laps were horrible, I lost count of the times I nearly lost the front (including a big near miss at the back straight kink doing 150 odd). The rule has the potential to be even more dangerous than the current percieved danger.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Wont someone PLEASE wrap me in bubble wrap!!

Are they soon going to be telling all 125 riders what jet to run in what conditions? because we might make a bad choice go lean and have a nasty highspeed crash.

MNZ SORT IT OUT!

-Glen

[Kickaha]

Well get on to MNZ and tell them, lobby your clubs as well, tell those who you think haven't seen this to get onto MNZ as this rule could be in very shortly, check the MNZ website to see when it's posted up and put in submissions against it

This rule has the potential to see a lot of people sitting on the sidelines at meetings or simply not bothering to take a chance at turning up if the weather is a bit dodgy

[oyster]

At this meeting we asked why MNZ would want to deviate from FIM rules.
It seemed MNZ were unaware of the FIM rules, they have also been asked on several occasions in the last month to define "wet race". There has been no reply until this meeting yesterday.

FIM have a definition of "Wet Race" and "Dry Race", whereas MNZ (at least recently) haven't. It states
"Rule 1.20.1.2
WET RACE - A race classified as wet, usually commenced in varying or wet conditions, will not be interrupted for climatic reasons and a rider who wishes to change tyres or make adjustments must enter the pits and do so during the race"

Commonly, worldwide, FIM and it's affiliates approve cut slicks at a tyre suitable for wet use. About 8 weeks ago a Superstock bike in the AMA got third on hand cut slicks, in the wet. Good enough for them surely the same for us.

The real crux of it is that MNZ is responsible for a safe environment, management, technology choice and then the rider makes THEIR decisions.

SUGGESTION
Lobby MNZ for alignment to FIM on these matters, don't mess it up with "home grown" rules.

[TonyB]

I'm surprised that MNZ are putting so much responsibility in the hands of the Steward. As far as MNZ and their responsibilities go, I thought the best situation from the 'cover-your-arse' point of veiw, would be to allow the rider to choose and be responsible for the consequences of their own choices.

From what I can make out, it looks like MNZ are making the choice for you, and are perhaps opening up a nice big can of worms.

[sidecar bob]

Possibly what MNZ are trying to do is create a level playing field where everyone is on the same tyre, & remove the skill & luck factor of choosing a tyre in fickle conditions, i dont really know.

[Shaun]

At a MNZ meeting today and they are looking at bringing a new rule in regarding wet conditions

Rather than declaring a meeting wet and leaving it the riders to choose what tyres they will run they will look at it by a "Race by Race" situation and declare individual races "wet"

If a race is declared "wet", then wet tyres must be used (no grooved slicks)

This will apply to all classes from F1, Sidecars, to Buckets and all classes in between

Personally I am not in favour of it,any thoughts from the rest of you?


This new proposed rule is total RUBBISH! The rule that has been used has worked perfectly! and there is not the experience in the race clubs to make this decision safely! They the clubs and offifuals do NOT know what the riders and teams no.

This proposed rule, is totally against the nature of our sport, and is totally against what MNZ is supposed to be doing for the riders and racing, once again time is being wasted on an issue that is NOT an issue, untill now!


please ignore and read following post

[Shaun]

MY ABOVE POSTING WAS MADE WITH OUT ME DOING ANY PROPER HOME WORK ON THIS MATTER, THIS IS MY TRUE OPINION ON IT!

I think you will find that this new suggested tyre rule is based at the 150cc learner class, where there is a lack of knoledge and set up skill involved.

This is not to say that the fantastc people that are working so hard to keep this class going, do not know what they are saying or doing, just that perhaps an out side opinion is required on this issue!

PERHAPS, a rule like the new proposed one is the safest way of dealing with this issue, it is a safety issue, and we do want to make our racing as modern and safe as we can have it for our riders and the future.

I think we will all find out in the future, that MNZ are required to look at rules based on a LEGAL aspect as well ? What if a rider ( Young and with a lack of knoledge or common sense) was to enter a race with totally the most un safe tires on his bike, and he was to be severley injured? the police and ACC and others would be involved in the investigation of this crash, and IF the rider did have non appropriate tyres for the conditions, where is the blaim going to be laid? who was at fault for allowing this to happen etc?

I now think that this conversation re this rule has good merrits, but still think the CORE classes should be allowed to make there own call re tyres to be used.

[Kickaha]

I think you will find that this new suggested tyre rule is based at the 150cc learner class, where there is a lack of knoledge and set up skill involved.


They said and they were very clear about this, that it will cover "all classes" up to and including Proddy Superbikes, 600 Supersport, Sidecars etc

[Brian d marge]

You know that feeling that you have when you see a small child stuffing things up and you just want to take charge and put it right


( Theres so much I want to say about the state of Road racing in NZ that It wont fit into this Sentence)

Stephen

[Tim 39]

so are 150's allowed to use cut slicks now? (I'm not up to date on the matter)
secondly, that rule is a load af crap in my view. At club level not everyone has spare wheels with wets, and I think this will see fewer people turning up to meetings in case it's wet.
I thought MNZ's wee line was "fostering the sport of motorcycling..." their rules dont fit with their objective.

all their new found authority over riders tyre choices is getting worse and worse.

[dangerous]

They said and they were very clear about this, that it will cover "all classes" up to and including Proddy Superbikes, 600 Supersport, Sidecars etc

I to was at the MNZ meeting as F4 president for the BRMC.
Kick is 100% correct... John Hepburn stressed very strongly and repeated himself (altho he admmitted it was a draft copy he was reading from) All classes and its the Stewards decision.


It will be one big fuck up IMHO and will mean if declared a wet race (each race will be declared separately) then there will be a lot of people sitting on pit wall.

[Rashika]

They said and they were very clear about this, that it will cover "all classes" up to and including Proddy Superbikes, 600 Supersport, Sidecars etc
and yep, that was exactly what was said at the meeting, this rule will apply to ALL classes.
The 150s are NOT allowed (at present) to run on anything except treaded tyres, and hense the reason the tyre subject has come up, down here they wish to run on Slicks/cut slicks or wets (to be the same as the other classes).

IMHO MNZ are setting themselves up EVEN in a legal sense. In the present state riders choose, hense the decision rests with them. They (MNZ) are worried that due to the 'Le Race' outcome where the event coordinator was charged and at first convicted on criminal nuisance charges, that they (or their rep the steward) could be similarily charged because they haven't taken enough resposibility to control hazards to their riders.
BUT if they tell a rider what to use (i.e. MUST use wets if race deemed wet) then if someone crashes cos the track dries too quickly, they are (I would guess?) even more liable cos they said you MUST do this.

What ASTOUNDED me at this meeting was the fact that VERY few of the dirt/trail rides EVER scrutineer gear or bikes. Too many bikes they said... WTF? In road riding down here anyway, we are getting everything checked, and now even having tyre choice taken away, and the trail/dirt riders dont even get a helmet check??????????????????? How dangerous is that? and how open to being sued/prosecuted is MNZ for knowingly allowing that to happen?
(Auckland clubs were the exception to this nonscrutineering....On ya guys!!)

As far as I can see (and I'm just a pleb) not scrutineering is far more dangerous than tyre choice

ok that enough from this chick, back to you boys... :Punk:

[TonyB]

Agree with you there Rashika. How can someone who makes so much sense end up with Dangerous?

[Rashika]

Agree with you there Rashika. How can someone who makes so much sense end up with Dangerous?

cos he needs someone to fix his spelling? :shutup:

and there are other reasons :innocent:

[dangerous]

well said Rashika, we should rig up a date or something to dicuss this more, I think we would get on well :Punk:

As the Bucket Motorcycle Racing Club President I am going to ask all members and other F4/F5 riders to send an email in of your thoughts on this subject and to say what out come you would prefer. ie; for me it should remain the riders choice and/or side with FIM rules.

I ask that any other racing clubs that are reading this thread do the same, as it will affect those that dont use or cant afford two sets of wheels... and what happens if the day is patchy and one race is declared wet the next dry... a fucking lot of time will be spent on wheel changing, I'd sooner be racing.

[scrivy]

This proposed rule is a big load of f@cken crap!! :yes::yes:

So if it rains during a dry race, who currently decides if its too dangerous to continue? - the rider does!
I've won races in the rain on slicks, and only been 3 -5 seconds slower a lap than in the dry. I've finished 2nd twice in the GP at Ruapuna on full slicks when most of the top ten were on wets, in the pouring rain.
Certain tracks have more grip than others in the wet.
I for one would rather leave the judgement up to the riders. We are big boys. If we go down in bad conditions, then we should have our butts kicked. We know the consequences. To finish first, you must first finish .... you all know the saying. Ride to the conditions.
For some people/teams that do not have the luxury to be able to change tyres at the drop of a hat, it will just limit them out of various races.
Realistically too, how many people can say they've done extensive testing in the wet? Do the majority of riders feel 100% confident on wet tyres?? I bet if you do a survey of them, they will say NO!! Also, if an 'inexperienced' person was to put on wets, do they then think that they can go harder than another experienced competitor on slicks?? And how many warm-up laps do we give them if all the practices were in the dry??
It wouldn't look any better legally for MNZ either, if someone was killed with wets on but they had never used them before, or were going too hard for their own inexperience!!

Lets leave the rule alone. Surely sensibility must prevail??!! :shit:

[dangerous]

Lets leave the rule alone. Surely sensibility must prevail??!! :shit:

Sort it out with ya 3 wheeled mates, and send a email to MNZ before it is settled on.

[scrivy]

Sort it out with ya 3 wheeled mates, and send a email to MNZ before it is settled on.

Mates........??????? Divvo and dickless wonder?????? :shutup::shutup::shit:

[dangerous]

Mates........??????? Divvo and dickless wonder?????? :shutup::shutup::shit:

hahahahahaha... you noticed that aswell :Punk:

[ajturbo]

on the note about tyres...
one of our vic riders ( steph..who is 20)... has been given a bike to learn on.. she is using it with TT900's on... on sat, she went down twice on the same corner,... read her report...
i am now going to get rid of these tyres...

they will still pass a WOF!!!!!!!!
but they are past thier best.. and yet they are still legal to be used.....

[Tim 39]

when they're new tt900's are shit (in my view) and then when they get old i'd almost rather race on knobblies. They are so unpredictable it's almost impossible to race on them.
That's why I think MNZ were being short sighted when they enforced that rule, and as for this new one they just never cease to amaze me. For the likes of buckets it is absolutely rediculous forcing them to go out on wets rather than slicks, it will almost kill bucket racing because people will turn up and not be able to ride

[scrivy]

Maybe when it rains, we should let the whole field of only novices go out on wets and watch the carnage. That would make MNZ realise that this rule is bollocks!!
My wet tyres were over 11 years old when I stopped racing in '99!! But, I would still be allowed out on them. Would I feel safer on them than having a new sticky slick tyre on? Hell no!!

[Blondini]

.These seem like genuine concerns and I feel you should be heard(But I could be biased)A petition to MNZ expressing your thoughts. perhaps?

[ajturbo]

it will almost kill bucket racing because people will turn up and not be able to ride


unless you come up here and race with us fella's......

we sign a bit of paper that says..
I, andy...XXX take full repsonsiblitly for my choices.....or along those lines...


in other words..

I AM AT FAULT.. if something goes wrong...(if someone crashes into me and i get a sore foot... it was my fault for getting in his/her way...)

I DO NOT blame anyone but MYSELF

(unless i can put the blame onto luke.....:innocent:)

is that so difficult to understand???

WTF is wrong with the MNZ?.. that they have to be BUTT kissing the lawyers/acc/police... ?

they want to make it harder for us to hoon ....

[scrivy]

Tyre choices now, what's next??

Oh no sir, you must run 34 PSI in your front tyre as its getting colder now..... if you fall off and hurt yourself, we have to have told you to do the right thing...... OK sir????

Or, please make sure you're running a 130 on the front for these conditions...... We have told you.......

Or, your brake fluid must not be more than two meetings old.... very dangerous if not followed......

FFS!! Let us decide ourselves!!

[Blondini]

Jump up and down and make a noise where it matters If you do nothing you will change nothing but if you make yourself heard to mnz they have to listen...Or Plan B..Protest and call me They sound like the SYSTEM and I LOVE to deal with the systems..sing out if you want a loud voice:yes:

[Kickaha]

well where were we? Damn, a couple of days of posts lost

still nothing up on the MNZ site

[scrivy]

Shall we go slotcar racing Kick??
Nice and safe.............

[sidecar bob]

Shall we go slotcar racing Kick??
Nice and safe.............

Or soggy biscuit racing??

[Tim 39]

oh gutted! we lost almost two pages of shit talk, we better make up for it then.:laugh:. lol

[Kickaha]

Or soggy biscuit racing??

I heard you're unbeaten at that:girlfight:

keep it on topic please gentleman (and scrivy)

[dangerous]

keep it on topic please gentleman (and scrivy)
OHHHHHHHHHHH naughty boys, the Kick has spoken... now pull ya farking heads in and lets sort this shit, whos in charge of you three wheeled lot?
get something togeather and send it to MNZ, or are ya all as ball less as that grumpy coke drinking mod?

[budda]

What a shame that the "lost" pages have disappeared from public viewing ...... was just starting to build up a head of steam !!!!! Still, the apparent PRIVATE e-mail campaign launched by certain members against those who openly disagree with them will keep me amused, I'm sure. Knock yourself out !

For the benefit and edification of all those who DID read the "roswell pages", let me make my position on the 150 tyre issue crystal clear......

I am NOT on an anti-150 crusade .... I have been saying for years that I believe the vast majority of the 150 class goings-on are great. Good Grief, its resulted in 40+ new kids on bikes having fun - how the hell can THAT be a bad thing ? Those who have worked so long and hard to get it to this level have rightly been applauded in the past.

Re the wet tyre debate - My PERSONAL preference is that those who ride should decide. PERIOD......
However, I do NOT apologise for believing that the insistence that 150's are somehow automatically faster AND safer in the wet on slicks is based on mis-information, slanted stats, and a sad lack of common sense.

This IS a safety issue, the concerned parents are RIGHTLY concerned that incorrect tyre choice may impact on the ability of their child to effectively control their bike. The old axiom that "the WISE winner only goes as fast as he NEEDS to to win" bears repeating to some of these crash prone kids - to go from SLICKS back to TREADED tyres DOES require adjustment to how you ride ... if you are already going fast on slicks ( and some of these wee buggers are NOT slow ! ) and then try and match that pace on treaded rubber , you increase your chances of a crash. Simple.

If all riders were on rubber that gave no performance advantage, isnt it likely that the best racers would still place at the front ?

I'd like someone to explain, in simple terms even I can understand, how it is that if the majority of the competitors in what was DESIGNED AND BUILT to be the nursery class for our chosen sport really DO have the tyre and set-up nouse, the experience and the wisdom to make the best tyre choice for conditions that can be treacherous at best, WHY THE HELL DO WE STILL NEED TO BE TRAINING THEM ?

Sorry Guys, SAFETY FIRST

Yours in Motorcycling

[Kickaha]

Re the wet tyre debate - My PERSONAL preference is that those who ride should decide. PERIOD......

Agreed


However, I do NOT apologise for believing that the insistence that 150's are somehow automatically faster AND safer in the wet on slicks is based on mis-information, slanted stats, and a sad lack of common sense.

So you've read the stats and analysed how they were gathered?

I've raced on slicks in the wet at the SI cup (and various other meetings) on a bucket and my wet pace would be 95% of my dry, I've had guys on treaded tyres crash in front of me and gone on to win the race, slicks work in the wet there is no doubt in my mind about that

[gav]

And is there a tyre on the market to suit 150's that is better in the wet than a cut slick, apart from a full race wet?
Do you, Buddha, have any personal experience of riding a 150 or bucket in the rain on slicks?

[Sketchy_Racer]

When someone else Is going to put the effort in to 'fix' the problem with 150 tyres then great. good on them.

BUT at the moment the only person i see pouring a shit load of HIS time and effort into this i Pete Jones. He has put together statistics and all sorts of crap to make it easier and SAFER in his eyes for these kids to race without huge cost. Why would you want to screw that up? WHY. The statistics PROOVE that they slicks are safe in the rain. Just as safe as ANY tyre (actually safer) on a streetstock 150 in the rain.

I know from personal experience that the slicks do work well in the wet. I am a Horrible wet racer and i know it, but i felt as safe as houses learning a new track on a unfamiliar bike, in pissing rain. ON SLICKS (I qualifyed 8th in the wet if i remember correctly, got second in the first race, and won the last)

I don't like the fact that MNZ want to slap a rule on ALL the classes and expect everyone else to 'deal with it'


My PERSONAL preference is that those who ride should decide. PERIOD

So let the rider decide for themself then.

That statement goes against everything this 'new' rule is about. You want to change the rules so that the rider CAN'T choose and that one dude thats just watching the track and isn't acctually riding or has a full understanding of the track conditions is making the call. Sounds stupid to me.

Don't Fix What Aint Broken!

If there is any saftey concerns.. mine would be the amount of Paint that is on the track at manfeild. Myself and 3 other riders hit the paint and crashed.. some avoidable, some not. How about fix that.

[oyster]

Want to read the minutes of 90 minute meeting? Gonna be long and boring? No way, the first 90% of this meeting is simply minuted as:
"discussions when both parties had presented material for and against"
Then, what MNZ wants is minuted in full detail, (including alterations!)
To cap it off, a vote that was taken BEFORE this submission does a time warp to after it so we arrive happy ever after with unanimous agreement...

My next post will have what WAS voted on, unanimously.

The minutes MNZ style:

"near the conclusion of the discussions when both
> parties had presented material for and against rule 22-12-10,
> Mr J Hepburn put to the meeting the following.
>
>
> He proposed that a Dot /European approved tyre or slick could
> be used for the dry, however if the race was declared wet then
> a Dot/European tyre or a full race wet should be used for that
> race. (No grooved slicks).
>
> The proviso being that for the tyres whether they be road,
> slick or wets that these tyres would be in line with the tyre
> manufactures specifications of tyre too recommended rim
> measurements.
>
> Specifications to be sourced from tyre distributors these will
> be gazetted when available.
>
> All person present, by a show of hands unanimously approved
> this rule proposal.
>
> This rule will only apply to the 150cc street stock class."
>

[oyster]

This is the Otago club submission as read out and discussed at the meeting.
The discussion "kicked around" for a while so a parent said, "let's vote", and MNZ approved that. About 70% for it, no one against it. The chairman asked why did people abstain. They explained they weren't Streetstock riders or supporters, so not eligible.


This the Otago Submission:

"We propose the tyre rule for streetstock be open as per classes (F3,F4 and F5) where the tyre choice is open and a rider can choose to use a variety of tyres including slick, grooved slick, DOT approved road legal or full race wet tyres.



The rule 22-12-10 would read:



The choice of tyre is optional, tyre warmers are not allowed. If the race is declared wet then the choice of tyre is at the discretion of the rider. A full race wet tyre marked “not for highway use” may be used.



As the MNZ rule book does not have any rule or guidelines on a regarding a race wet I have included below rule 1.20.1.2 from the FIM rules which I suggest should be added into our rule book.



"A race classified as wet, usually commenced in varying or wet conditions, will not be interrupted for climatic reasons and riders who wish to change tyres or make adjustments must enter the pits and do so during the actual race"



Our reasons for suggesting the proposed rule (22-12-10) is as follows:



Other racing classes with open or optional tyre rule such as Production Superbike and Formula Three and for that matter 125GP allow the rider to make his or her choice based on the conditions and what they believe is the best racing decision. In the event of a rider making an incorrect choice of tyres for the conditions they ultimately take the responsibility for that decision and the organisers, Stewards, Club or MNZ are not held to account.

After this submission MNZ was asked, directly to it's lawyer, if there were any objections to this. "does it leave any legal problems?" This question was not answered.

This is still what the Streetstock riders want, and if others support us, it'll be appreciated. Thanks

[Sketchy_Racer]

Im in support.

Especially because i want to have a set of grooved slicks for intermediates at the nationals. (along with wets and slicks obviously)

[Maido]

I know from personal experience that the slicks do work well in the wet. I am a Horrible wet racer and i know it, but i felt as safe as houses learning a new track on a unfamiliar bike, in pissing rain. ON SLICKS (I qualifyed 8th in the wet if i remember correctly, got second in the first race, and won the last)



Im in support.
Especially because i want to have a set of grooved slicks for intermediates at the nationals. (along with wets and slicks obviously)

Can you clarify why would you need a set of intermediate's AND wet's when you just stated that you think slicks are "safe as houses" "in pissing rain"?

Disclaimer: this isn't a personal attack, I am just interested to know.

[Sketchy_Racer]

For me its national level on a 125GP bike.. I want every inch of compeditivness as possible. some times (like the last two rounds of VIC) it's been too cold for slicks to work perfectly, but too dry for wets.. so you want a happy medium. therefore Cuts

For street stock i believe that grooved slicks (which is what they have) would be the best bet. But even straight slicks are fine. The reasoning is that they are Cheaper and easier and perform 10 time better than street tyres.

The idea is that YES, wets would perform better than a slick in the rain, and intermediates would, but a slick in the rain is FAR better than any of the current grooved road tyres for the streetstock bikes.

125GP and streetstock are significantly different, you have to compare apples with apples :)

Streetstock is an introduction class, which is supposed to be safe.
125GP is a full compeditive class. If i wanted to just pootle around a track, i'd still be in streetstock. :)

-Glen

[Rashika]

... If i wanted to just pootle around a track, i'd still be in streetstock. :)

-Glen

hate to say it but there are quite a few SS guys/gals who do a bit more than pootling these days and would be quite comfy in the 125 class :niceone: down here anyway

[Kickaha]

This rule will only apply to the 150cc street stock class."

Yet on the day they said it would apply to all classes

The submission from Otago would be the one to support

[dangerous]

This thread was not put up as a SS150 only debate... it is infact about ALL racers and their choice to race on what tyre they feel safer on.

I dont race a F1, F2 so I will not comment on slicks in the rain as far as they go, I will however say as far as I am concerned F4 and F5 bikes handle bloody well in the wet on slicks.

I believe that all racers should have a chance to say their bit on this before the decision is made. :apint:

[Sketchy_Racer]

hate to say it but there are quite a few SS guys/gals who do a bit more than pootling these days and would be quite comfy in the 125 class :niceone: down here anyway

Yes i more than understand that! (and know from experience)

But for me personally, i wouldnt be wasting my money with 125gp if i didnt believe i was truely compeditive. I would rather spend less money, and have more fun on a streetstock with out the huge cost increase to 125gp. :Punk:

[Sketchy_Racer]

This thread was not put up as a SS150 only debate... it is infact about ALL racers and their choice to race on what tyre they feel safer on.



I can't comment on 600s etc.

But from my experience on streetstock bikes on slicks in the wet, They are more than adequate, and would out perform 99% of grooved road tyres when run on these types of machines.

As for 600etc, I believe that they should have thier own choice as to what they wish to run. Remember, they're the ones twisting the throttle

[budda]

OK, let me try one MORE time.

YES, I HAVE ridden MANY MANY HUNDREDS of laps on my buckets, big and little, WITH slicks AND with road tyres. Even done more than a few races on Oysters own weapon.
YES, I HAVE ridden ( and thoroughly enjoyed ) 150's - not with slicks fitted though.
YES, I've probably done more laps in the rain than some of you have in the DRY.....and I STILL dislike it !!!!!!!

Re the 150's, let me state it plainly AGAIN .... I fully support the 150 idea as the ideal place to learn the ropes and hopefully get hooked on a fantastic sport. Jonesey and his crew have done a sh1tload of work getting the class to where it is now - this is NOT an anti-Jonesey issue.

My "problem" is simply that the 150's is where we put those new and inexperienced to learn in a controlled environment ...... correct ?

Is it then fair and reasonable to expect these same riders to have the tyre knowledge and the experience to make an informed choice when confronted with shitty track conditions ? How is it OK for their OWN organisation to mandate how and what these young guns ride, what they must wear when riding etc ( all viable safety issues ) and then a disaster when MNZ tries to ensure that these very same kids are not put in an unsafe situation due to their inexperience with tyre and set-up issues? Am I wrong in thinking that more than just a couple of these kids dont have ex-racer parents back in the pits, ready to give the benefits of THEIR experience ? Not the kids fault, not their folks fault ...... like most things in life, you get experience by getting experience !

Strikes me as amusing that some posters in this thread who are extolling the fantastic performance of slicks in the wet actually have spare wheels, with wets, ready and waiting for the next wet race
One even tells us on his own website that he intends to take a second MACHINE to the races, complete with a "wet weather set-up"! For my benefit, as I'm obviously the only one who doesnt understand, would you please let us know just what the differences ARE, and WHY they are better than dry settings ?

At the risk of repeating myself, this IS a safety issue ....

Cheers
Budda

[Kickaha]

Strikes me as amusing that some posters in this thread who are extolling the fantastic performance of slicks in the wet actually have spare wheels, with wets, ready and waiting for the next wet race


Not me after my first wet race on slicks I decided I wouldn't bother with spare wheels as they're not needed

They had a bit on risk mangement at the start of the meeting, now what happens if someone on treaded tyres has a serious crash or a fatality and it could be proved the crash rate on slicks is lower and that this was bought to the attention of MNZ but they pushed through a "treaded tyre rule"

ps was it you that had the bike wreckers in Timaru?

[budda]

Hi Kick ... no, I'm not THAT one. If memory serves me correctly, THAT guy has a wee bit of experience on buckets, all the Proddy racing classes, Kiwi Superbikes ( think he was first Kiwi in the World Superbikes - have to check with him ), raced and Team Managed internationally, even put in a few years with MotoGP teams, so not exactly inexperienced.

Give HIM a ring, and ask HIS opinion ! Then come back and tell us what he said......

[dangerous]

Strikes me as amusing that some posters in this thread who are extolling the fantastic performance of slicks in the wet actually have spare wheels, with wets, ready and waiting for the next wet race

Not me, think the post was lost where I said I won a race in the pissing rain at Teratonga and only slid once, which was controlable, were as my post classic on treaded tyres was moving all round the show... the diff being a F4 dosnt have the power thing nor the weight thing and has skinny tyres, its not on planning like J Hepburn is to ban us F4/F5 people from using what we want.

As far as a 150SS bike goes they are a bit grunter but same basice apply.. SS is Street Stock give them the non option not every other racing class.

[Kickaha]

Give HIM a ring, and ask HIS opinion ! Then come back and tell us what he said......

If he's as good at answering his phone as he is his emails I'd never get a hold of him :lol:



its not on planning like J Hepburn is to ban us F4/F5 people from using what we want.

As far as a 150SS bike goes they are a bit grunter but same basice apply.. SS is Street Stock give them the non option not every other racing class.

Well going by what PJ posted further up they're now only aiming at SS150

[dangerous]

Well going by what PJ posted further up they're now only aiming at SS150ohh really... missed that, what you are saying is that MNZ are NOT looking at ALL classes now? Ill wait till I hear that from MNZ?

[Tim 39]

Well going by what PJ posted further up they're now only aiming at SS150

that's a lot more reasonable than making it for all classes

[ajturbo]

If he's as good at answering his phone as he is his emails I'd never get a hold of him :lol:




Well going by what PJ posted further up they're now only aiming at SS150


ohh really... missed that, what you are saying is that MNZ are NOT looking at ALL classes now? Ill wait till I hear that from MNZ?


you two sort ya shit out eh!!!..
sounds ( reads ) like the MNZ ... not know what is going on!!...

i just want to get out there and have a good go at hooning around the track..... and try and not fall off tooo often:niceone:

[Shaun]

As I said in my posting, number 12! This tyre rule issue, is really only for the 150 class!

I have read a couple of comments on this thread, where people have said that there is NO benifit to wet tyres over cut slicks or treaded tyres, TOTAL RUBBISH FOLKS! Sorry, NO direct attack, just my oppinion after 23 years of racing myself.

There really is nothing to argue about my above comment, just take a look at any rules in any country and the availabillity of tyres to riders and teams, V Rossi could not even ride as safe as he normally could in the wet on dry tyres! FACT.

I am not trying to attack any one or put any one down here, I am really trying to get you to all look at this from a safety,logical, management point of view.

J hepburn, and many others involved in this subject have so much true full on racing history behind them, that we all need to read and listen to what they have got to say, not required to agree with them, but please, give them some room to move, so they can continue to help our sport grow. It is not fair, nor intelligent, or even true KIWI like to get on the internet and bag people, but this is what seems to happen these days, when it comes to issue's like this, and that really is a shame, because it takes the true focus off the main point of issue, and also makes a few people with some thing worth while to say, refrain them self from posting, as they cannot be bothered getting involved in internet war of words.

Come on team, lets try to keep to the issue on this subject, and try to remember what this class is truly all about, and it is all about helping the future of our great sport.

Perhaps a simple rule like, a controll tyre is required to race in this class, some kind of treaded tyre! and please do not complain about how much these tyres may cost, it will still be a huge lot less than a funeral bill.

What MNZ is trying to do here ( In my oppinion) is to help this class grow and SURVIVE! if the safety side of it is ignored ( Because we are Kiwi's and have to give it a go mate!) MNZ will always have there knockers of what they do, they are a company that finds itself between a rock and a hard place all the time! And this tyre rule discussion going on at the moment is just another case of trying to do the best thing, but they cannot please every one all the time, as well as a choice of words at the beggining of it all, where it appeared that this rule would apply to all classes.

There are some riders who could go and race in the rain all day long using slicks and live to tell the tail, but, there are also a lot of very young riders in this class, who only understand one thing, stretch the throttle cable now and try to win now, it is this bunch of future talent ( and some ones child) that this rule is being taked about.

I think there should be an age limit put on this class, 15 Years old MAX!

This would make it a definate learners class, NO OLDER WANTABEES, ( Again, NO attack on anyone ) and would also make the rule making for it, a lot easier, FACT, an under 15 year old with bugger all race experience, know's a lot less about safety and machine set up than the people trying to make it safer. It would also possibly show to parents, that this class is all about building a safer foundation to get there children into motor cycle racing.

The 150 class is a learners class! designed orriganally for KIDS! so lets try and agree to make it as safe and cost effective as possible, to help bring on our future hero's in our sport:Punk:

[Rashika]

As I said in my posting, number 12! This tyre rule issue, is really only for the 150 class!
sorry Shaun but at that particular meeting they specifically said the new WET tyre rule would apply to ALL classes and that is was a NEW ruling and was only being nutted out at present... we asked several times to confirm and were told yes that the rule would apply to all classes including F1,2,3,4,5 and sidecars. The SS tyre ruling was a different issue and under discussion at that meeting. We were there as F4 riders, not as part of the SS group, and really just to see how it went for them. Most of us where surprised at MNZ's new wet tyre rule, and maybe MNZ have had a change of thought since the meeting.


I think there should be an age limit put on this class, 15 Years old MAX!

This would make it a definate learners class, NO OLDER WANTABEES, ( Again, NO attack on anyone ) ...

..The 150 class is a learners class! designed orriganally for KIDS! so lets try and agree to make it as safe and cost effective as possible, to help bring on our future hero's in our sport:Punk:
actually I think this is a bloody good idea. At present (down here anyway) there is a HUGE difference in the skill levels of the SS class, which can have over 40 people at times, some are really too advanced to still be racing in it, altho not sure what ages they are tho.

[Shaun]

sorry Shaun but at that particular meeting they specifically said the new WET tyre rule would apply to ALL classes and that is was a NEW ruling and was only being nutted out at present... we asked several times to confirm and were told yes that the rule would apply to all classes including F1,2,3,4,5 and sidecars. The SS tyre ruling was a different issue and under discussion at that meeting. We were there as F4 riders, not as part of the SS group, and really just to see how it went for them. Most of us where surprised at MNZ's new wet tyre rule, and maybe MNZ have had a change of thought since the meeting.

You are correct in what say here BUT, if you read through the whole thread, you will see where others agree with what I say, about this only being an issue with the 150 class, it was a bad choice of words from the get go, that tagged all classes with this new rule idea.

Honestly, this tyre rule is only about the 150 class! And good to read that you agree about my age limit idea.

[Rashika]

You are correct in what say here BUT, if you read through the whole thread, you will see where others agree with what I say, about this only being an issue with the 150 class, it was a bad choice of words from the get go, that tagged all classes with this new rule idea.

Honestly, this tyre rule is only about the 150 class! And good to read that you agree about my age limit idea.
I'm really hoping they have changed their mind about the wet tyre rule for all classes, and that it dies a natural death (altho at that meeting they specifically stated it was for all classes and was a separate issue to the SS tyre issue).
IMHO streetstock should be just that 'street stock' and run road tyres, although the main issue seems to be finding a treaded road tyre that will suit track conditions.
My bucket runs slicks, but I've never raced in the wet... in the ferkn cold 0 degrees yes, but not pissing down rain so i cant say how it would or wouldn't go, I would probably be very tentative at first anyway. Having said that I have seen both Kick and dangerous racing on their slicks at Teretonga in the rain, and doing well... I dunno, leave to you blokes with the experience to decide :yes:

[Sketchy_Racer]

All in all, My Humble opinon is DON'T FIX WHAT AINT BROKEN

I've give up on it. Hope it all goes well

[Rashika]

And good to read that you agree about my age limit idea.

I think this has a lot of merit really... :yes:
maybe one of the reasons they want/ or feel they need to use slicks is cos some are riding/racing beyond the scope of the SS class which is really is, as you say, a beginners/learners class.

[dangerous]

Honestly, this tyre rule is only about the 150 class! Well I hope so Shaun... I heard Hepburn say and repeat, that it was proposed for all classes... Im hoping it was just to shut PJ up (didnt work) and that what you are hearing is and has changed for the beter.

[Kickaha]

As I said in my posting, number 12! This tyre rule issue, is really only for the 150 class!

As Dangerous and Rashika have already pointed out, this is not what was said at the meeting


I have read a couple of comments on this thread, where people have said that there is NO benifit to wet tyres over cut slicks or treaded tyres, TOTAL RUBBISH FOLKS! Sorry, NO direct attack, just my oppinion after 23 years of racing myself.

Yes but racing what? there's a big difference in the power to weight of a 600-1000cc bike and a SS150 or a Bucket and how they'll behave on slicks in the wet


J hepburn, and many others involved in this subject have so much true full on racing history behind them, that we all need to read and listen to what they have got to say, not required to agree with them, but please, give them some room to move, so they can continue to help our sport grow.

Quite true and I've watched John, yourself and others like them at race tracks all over the country but I don't see that necessarily make our experience and opinions any less valid and going by my own and some others on here experience Johns blanket statement that slicks don't work in the rain isn't accurate because on my buckets ( and a few other members) at least they work very well, maybe it's a power to weight thing


What MNZ is trying to do here ( In my oppinion) is to help this class grow and SURVIVE! if the safety side of it is ignored ( Because we are Kiwi's and have to give it a go mate!) MNZ will always have there knockers of what they do, they are a company that finds itself between a rock and a hard place all the time! And this tyre rule discussion going on at the moment is just another case of trying to do the best thing,

I think another issue (which should secondary to safety) is also the cost benefit of running used slicks, if a lot of cost is added with running treaded tyres and they aren't lasting as long then that may be detrimental to the classes survival



I think there should be an age limit put on this class, 15 Years old MAX!

While I agree in principle, what about if a 16-17 yr old turns up never having raced before and wants to give racing a try? it would still be the ideal class for him to start in, perhaps new riders only with no experience and a maximun amount of races or seasons they can do



The 150 class is a learners class! designed orriganally for KIDS! so lets try and agree to make it as safe and cost effective as possible, to help bring on our future hero's in our sport:Punk:

I think we're all pretty much agreed on that one

[ajturbo]

I think there should be an age limit put on this class, 15 Years old MAX!

This would make it a definate learners class, NO OLDER WANTABEES, ( Again, NO attack on anyone ) and would also make the rule making for it, a lot easier, FACT, an under 15 year old with bugger all race experience, know's a lot less about safety and machine set up than the people trying to make it safer. It would also possibly show to parents, that this class is all about building a safer foundation to get there children into motor cycle racing.

The 150 class is a learners class! designed orriganally for KIDS! so lets try and agree to make it as safe and cost effective as possible, to help bring on our future hero's in our sport:Punk:

hey shaun...
i am one of those "OLDER WANTABEES"....( and NO i don't take ANY offence by that satement!:scooter:!)

i am a "little" older than 15....:innocent:
i enjoy this class of racing.....it is at my level and i am happy there... the speeds are ( at the moment) fast enough, i am not interested in the points and infact, old billy has put his money where his mouth is and put up prizes for the first 3(think it's first 3 ?) place getters, that are UNDER 17...on a RG150 (excluding the 250's!!:Punk:)

now, if a young one can set his/her sights on beating me... i should be their FIRST step...and if in some way this will help them, great!
:love:

[oyster]

Sorry to say this, but after about 4 years of dealing with mNZ and more recently the last 8 months over this tyre matter, I confirm MY OPINION that MNZ are not motivated to condider safety as a priority. In this recent instance there are all the signs of the priority being safety of the butt covering type, distorted further by personality conflicts, egos and "I know best cos I'm a champion" arrogance.
If MNZ were really interested in safety they'd study what's happened down here in the last 4 years, consult with the HUGELY experienced peoiple who have led and developed it and then make decisions. Ask the people the recent meeting in Christchurch about how much listening was done by MNZ.
Some very real statistics and hard questions were asked, and we were given no answers. The minutes of the meeting really confirmed it (my belief) by excluding the first 90% of the meeting, only noting the final submission by MNZ. The whole behaviuor of MNZ is disgusting, I would have walked away long ago but I remain for the welfare and safety of the young riders I enjoy being with.
As Sketchy says "It isn't broke so why fix it" Yes, we still haven't been told what's broken by MNZ, and why they're obsessed with "fixing' it.

[Kickaha]

Ask the people the recent meeting in Christchurch about how much listening was done by MNZ.

The impression I got was they weren't interested and had already made their minds up before the meeting started

[Brian d marge]

I confirm MY OPINION that MNZ are not motivated to condider safety as a priority. In this recent instance there are all the signs of the priority being safety of the butt covering type, distorted further by personality conflicts, egos and "I know best cos I'm a champion" arrogance.
.

I could see that happening , Nz Road racing ... Well this is a touchy subject , On the one hand ,,I dont have to deal with it , and the racing here is just fine , VERy professional if you want and a nice day out if you need

But what upsets me more than anything I suppose is the fact, that there are many future Rossis , Stoners ( and real Stoners ,,me being one ) out there who through the set up / lack of set up cannot get recognized on the world stage without resorting to flying 1/2 way round the world

From a factories point of view I cant see any reason to invest ( racing at the end of the day is a business ,,all parties must make a profit )

( I can see things happening in off road , but I cant see the same in Road racing ,, ( Here in Japan we have a clear path till it starts getting serious ..money ,,, then 2 things happen people club together or are a dealer entry or,,, have support from parent with deep pockets ...finally Businesses who use the racing as development of new product


If there is a prevailing attitude , by people who may very well have the best interest at heart , but havent been exposed to the " Mind set" encountered overseas, then they might be holding the sport back

Paeroa is ( IMHO ) a Jewel in the crown ,,it fronts well on TV , the racing is close and looks good ,, I think its equal to anything the rest of the world chucks out ....

Unfortunately Ruapuna on a Grey day ,,is well ...ummmm yes,,,,,,,,well

Stephen

People on this list who have been here awhile ,,will know my stance on safety . ...Ill leave it at that .

[dangerous]

Righto stand at attention you bunch a moaning wana be racers you too harris

Iv just been yaking to J Hepburn MNZ and I can asure you guys and girls that this tyre ruleing is ONLY now in reguards to SS150.

As JH said at the meeting what he read out was only a 'draft' and that he needed to get legal advice on that draft.
That has now been done and by the end of this week... there well be a new ruleing reguarding 150SS only and the tyre situation

So bugger it all time to crawl back under our rocks till we find something else to bitch about, Oyster... got any ideas :whistle:

[Shaun]

Sorry to say this, but after about 4 years of dealing with mNZ and more recently the last 8 months over this tyre matter, I confirm MY OPINION that MNZ are not motivated to condider safety as a priority. In this recent instance there are all the signs of the priority being safety of the butt covering type, distorted further by personality conflicts, egos and "I know best cos I'm a champion" arrogance.
If MNZ were really interested in safety they'd study what's happened down here in the last 4 years, consult with the HUGELY experienced peoiple who have led and developed it and then make decisions. Ask the people the recent meeting in Christchurch about how much listening was done by MNZ.
Some very real statistics and hard questions were asked, and we were given no answers. The minutes of the meeting really confirmed it (my belief) by excluding the first 90% of the meeting, only noting the final submission by MNZ. The whole behaviuor of MNZ is disgusting, I would have walked away long ago but I remain for the welfare and safety of the young riders I enjoy being with.
As Sketchy says "It isn't broke so why fix it" Yes, we still haven't been told what's broken by MNZ, and why they're obsessed with "fixing' it.

So, you have got on here and managed to rubish MNZ again, well done! What did you actually achieve by making such a post? You are a buisness man, as well as a major part of the youth racing programme, how does making such vicious attacks at our sport council help this cause? You of all people should know, that we are only as good as our last job.

Perhaps, a part of the reason, that some people have trouble listening to others, is that some of the others are to single minded in there projects, that they cannot/ or will not, see others opinions on it?

The Internet is a great tool, if used sensibly! Valid, educated idea's and opinions can be voiced and discussed.

You of all people, should know, that getting onto the internet and bad mouthing MNZ is a total waste of time! They do not play here, there office is in Huntly. Or is this your way of trying to gather more support for the programme you are so involved in, and spend so much time on?

Oyster, you know I respect what you have done in our sport, but I think you should sit down and take a breath before attacking to many more people mate, your name will soon be known as a pain to deal with, and that will take you, and your enthusiasim and commitment away from the sport,which would be a big loss, through your own choice, or by others not wanting to deal with you any more.

You have so much to offer Oyster,and do need other people and organisations there to support you, but helping to teach our future riders to bad mouth there sport council, or clubs, is not a good thing to do! Have you had every rider in this class write a letter as yet, that has been recorded and forwarded onto MNZ giving MNZ the riders point of view, am not sure if that will do any good, but it is the correct/ professional way of dealing with this.

Have a good day, and please take my post as it was intended, for the good of our sport.

[Rashika]

Righto stand at attention you bunch a moaning wana be racers you too harris

Iv just been yaking to J Hepburn MNZ and I can asure you guys and girls that this tyre ruleing is ONLY now in reguards to SS150.

As JH said at the meeting what he read out was only a 'draft' and that he needed to get legal advice on that draft.
That has now been done and by the end of this week... there well be a new ruleing reguarding 150SS only and the tyre situation

So bugger it all time to crawl back under our rocks till we find something else to bitch about, Oyster... got any ideas :whistle:
woohoo Dangerous for president... oh yeah already there ;)

[oyster]

Shaun, I'm sorry I've upset you so much. But I'm upset too, upset because of all the needless effort and and time going in the wrong direction, where it could've been spent on good stuff like training manuals, coaching, training more stewards and suchlike that really progress our sport. And believe me, I am a great supporter of MNZ. Guys like Paul Stewart and Johnny Hepburn
are hard working great people and we'd be right stuffed without them. I have huge respect for them. But imagine how frustrated I felt when MNZ insisted on a meeting where about 40 of the Streestock parents and kids met the MNZ board (for their first time) in conditions where they looked really incompetent, downright silly in fact.
Not my wish at all, and I did everything I could to avert this PR disaster. Believe me.
I hope positive things do come out of my moan, that MNZ realise there are minimum standards. That ignoring well presented and factual concerns, and even sometimes throwing insults back is just not on. A responsive and professional MNZ WILL be the new MNZ and I hope it comes soon.
Again, sorry Shaun. I certainly won't say any more, and definitely won't tackle you on what you've said here.

[Shaun]

Shaun, I'm sorry I've upset you so much. But I'm upset too, upset because of all the needless effort and and time going in the wrong direction, where it could've been spent on good stuff like training manuals, coaching, training more stewards and suchlike that really progress our sport. And believe me, I am a great supporter of MNZ. Guys like Paul Stewart and Johnny Hepburn
are hard working great people and we'd be right stuffed without them. I have huge respect for them. But imagine how frustrated I felt when MNZ insisted on a meeting where about 40 of the Streestock parents and kids met the MNZ board (for their first time) in conditions where they looked really incompetent, downright silly in fact.
Not my wish at all, and I did everything I could to avert this PR disaster. Believe me.
I hope positive things do come out of my moan, that MNZ realise there are minimum standards. That ignoring well presented and factual concerns, and even sometimes throwing insults back is just not on. A responsive and professional MNZ WILL be the new MNZ and I hope it comes soon.
Again, sorry Shaun. I certainly won't say any more, and definitely won't tackle you on what you've said here.

Mate, as I said in my post above, I know you are a good man, and are very good for our sport, you have helped bring on so many riders through your work habits with racing.

I know that issues like this can be very frustrating at times, I have been racing involved for over 23 years now, so have had simillar problems over the years mate.

Please stay involved Oyster, you are bloody good for our sport!

[Joni]

I agree Shaun Oyster is great for the sport.

Maybe someone can step in and help Oyster... when he gets angry and frustrated, be the person who communicates the issues to MNZ and others on his behalf , help out where needed etc etc... then he does not feel all alone and frustrated?? Which means emotions might not get this hightened?

Pete you know I respect you very much, but maybe someone can help with the communication side of things... dont know, just a suggestion. (no offence meant).

:innocent::sunny:

[Tim 39]

I agree Shaun Oyster is great for the sport.

Maybe someone can step in and help Oyster... when he gets angry and frustrated, be the person who communicates the issues to MNZ and others on his behalf , help out where needed etc etc... then he does not feel all alone and frustrated?? Which means emotions might not get this hightened?

Pete you know I repsect you very much, but maybe someone can help with the communication side of things... dont know, just a suggestion. (no offence meant).

:innocent::sunny:
Good suggestion, just need to find someone to do it. Oyster does a lot for streetstock and it'd be good to see people help with the organising. I (and others from the Otago club) have tried running training days that were badly supported. Not only does someone need to do it but also everyone to support what they are doing (what has been annoying oyster at the moment I reckon)

[Shaun]

Good suggestion, just need to find someone to do it. Oyster does a lot for streetstock and it'd be good to see people help with the organising. I (and others from the Otago club) have tried running training days that were badly supported. Not only does someone need to do it but also everyone to support what they are doing (what has been annoying oyster at the moment I reckon)


So perhaps now is a good time, for people that know Oyster and the programme that he is so involved in, to get together, and talk together, about choosing some one to be the spokes person fo this project.

Oyster cannot do all this on his own, and I trully believe that when one person tries to do so much, it becomes so personell, that often things get distorted, and can end up being a negative, rather than a positive.

It is also up to all of us remember that this site is just a M/cycle web site, it is not the place where we can get access to our CEO or race division manager to discuss issue's with.

So what really is the point of getting on here, and making a post under a fictisious name about the sport, I honestly believe that if people were serious enough about the sport or certain issue with it, then that person would spend the $2 it may cost them to make a phone call, or even to write an appropriate letter to the correct dept, to get an officuall awnser to there problem.

I know it is brilliant to be able to discuss idea's with one and all, but most of these race related issue's that come up on this site, are talked about by the same few, and I do mean Few only, as I have been watching this go on for over 12 months now.

[Tim 39]

I have an idea... how about we break down the small tasks that can be handled by anyone (that Oyster doesn't have to do himself) and then just give points for the likes of sportzfotoz cup or some other thing. like say each task is 1 point or something, that way we are getting these people helping their own class and is a good thing to get them doing. The other option is to keep track of the points and have some sort of prize. Basicly just something to encourage these kids to pull their own weight, with a bit of luck it'll carry on up the classes as they do.

is it a good idea? I reckon if we decide on something like this then we can give it to oyster, or someone who can start this off. Most of these guys are keen to help but don't know what to do, so a sheet with tasks and points awarded or something

[oyster]

Yep guys, that's fine. Shoot me, then after a visit to the taxidermist I'll end up in some museum.
The plaque will read:
"HOMO OYSTERIS"
A rare specimen of a culture where straight questions got straights answers, personal insults and sarcasm weren't tolerated, mistakes resulted in apologies, consultation was two way, (along with respect) and when people said things, they meant it.
This breed became extinct in the efforts to find similar creatures to work / live with. This specimen was put out of it's misery while trying to find a successful relationship with a particularly difficult organisation. It only seemed fair.

[Shaun]

Yep guys, that's fine. Shoot me, then after a visit to the taxidermist I'll end up in some museum.
The plaque will read:
"HOMO OYSTERIS"
A rare specimen of a culture where straight questions got straights answers, personal insults and sarcasm weren't tolerated, mistakes resulted in apologies, consultation was two way, (along with respect) and when people said things, they meant it.
This breed became extinct in the efforts to find similar creatures to work / live with. This specimen was put out of it's misery while trying to find a successful relationship with a particularly difficult organisation. It only seemed fair.


Is this you saying,

thanks for trying to help guys,?

or is it you saying bugger off and leave me alone to do this my way and on my own?

Not sure sorry

[Joni]

I am not sure either Pete, because my suggestion was only in an attempt to help you and what you have been doing, by maybe relieving some of the burdens you deal with alone from day to day.

[Shaun]

I am not sure either Pete, because my suggestion was only in an attempt to help you and what you have been doing, by maybe relieving some of the burdens you deal with alone from day to day.



It may well just be his sense of humour? I hope so!

[cowpoos]

Yep guys, that's fine. Shoot me, then after a visit to the taxidermist I'll end up in some museum.
The plaque will read:
"HOMO OYSTERIS"
A rare specimen of a culture where straight questions got straights answers, personal insults and sarcasm weren't tolerated, mistakes resulted in apologies, consultation was two way, (along with respect) and when people said things, they meant it.
This breed became extinct in the efforts to find similar creatures to work / live with. This specimen was put out of it's misery while trying to find a successful relationship with a particularly difficult organisation. It only seemed fair.


Sounds like your giving up a big part of your passion?? hope not...your a big name NZ wide for your efforts in the sport in the south Island!!

I think in this case...if something went to court...it will be easier for lawyers to find so called professionals to be agaisnts your findings...no matter what they are...and for that reason...they are probally covering their arse's...
But that is by no means the end of it...shaun made some suggestions about writing letters in?? and I think I would make a serious complaint about the minutes from the meeting...because that isn't kosher!

We're acctually really lucky for the most part this is a amatur sport in NZ...I would hate to think what could happen to it if OSH got involved!!!

[Maarty]

Hi guys,
I have been following this thread and have finally decided to speak!
Pete, no one was attacking you personally at Teratonga that day, you and I had a frank and open discussion, we spoke to all the same people, shaun, dave, terry, pav,brian, stroudy, and others. The conditions that day this all started we beyond bad. my interest in this whole affair was purely from a safety point of view and I was speaking from a 25 year veteren of road racing!
In spite of what has been said about me in the south, I am basically for what you are trying to do, I have EXTENSIVE experience of 150s and treaded tyres, in fact they are still going slower than times Dennis and I were doing when Tim ran the winter series!
My motivation is from someone who is watching the riders that have come through the 150 system. I have one riding for me now who attended you school! He is a rider that is going to go far and I think that 150 experience has helped.
I am someone who will continue to support young riders get a leg in the door by offering them rides on my bikes.
BUT!
Not at the expense of safety.
These kids are the future of our sport, not you or I or even gremlin.(sorry mate!) We are done and dusted, these young men and women are the very foundation of the future, if we let them throw themselves into the ground for no good reason then we risk losing them altogether, lose enough and soon we have nobody to be the next Sam Smith, Haden Fitzgerald etc.
Some scribes have extoled the virtues of slicks in the wet, I have raced in the rain on slicks, I have raced in the dry on wets! BUT only when the weather conditions have prevailed post race starts! I am damn sure that I would never start a wet race on slick if I had a choice to do otherwise.
I am a little surprised that people would blame paint for crashing! all the while expounding the greatness of slicks in the wet then say they were going to get inters and wets for the nats? Stinks of hypocrisy to me!
The bottom line is, why not let our youth become all they can be by racing safely.
Thats my view for what it is worth.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Hey ya maarty nice to see you on here :)


expounding the greatness of slicks in the wet then say they were going to get inters and wets for the nats? Stinks of hypocrisy to me!
The bottom line is, why not let our youth become all they can be by racing safely.
Thats my view for what it is worth.


My response to a similar question was


For me its national level on a 125GP bike.. I want every inch of compeditivness as possible. some times (like the last two rounds of VIC) it's been too cold for slicks to work perfectly, but too dry for wets.. so you want a happy medium. therefore Cuts

For street stock i believe that grooved slicks (which is what they have) would be the best bet. But even straight slicks are ok. The reasoning is that they are Cheaper and easier and perform 10 time better than street tyres that are a few heat cycles old.

The idea is that YES, wets would perform better than a slick in the rain, and intermediates would, but a slick in the rain is better than any of the current grooved road tyres for the streetstock bikes.

125GP and streetstock are significantly different, you have to compare apples with apples

Streetstock is an introduction class, which is supposed to be safe.
125GP is a full compeditive class. If i wanted to just pootle around a track, i'd still be in streetstock.

-Glen



I am a little surprised that people would blame paint for crashing

Blame the paint? maybe... It was definatly a major contributing factor to my crash.

Bad tyre? Yeah.. i was scrubbing a new slick in damp conditions.. (although only one other rider was on wets, and i qualifyed second. Ahead of him i might add)

I would love to hear you're honest opinion as to what the cause of the accident was. How come i can have a tyre that grips well enough through the turns at a speed that i could slid my knee.. yet down a straight I have a serious lack of traction. Inconsistent grip caused by white paint would be my guess :)

But yeah, I really would like to hear your honest opinon :)

Cheers,

-Glen

[Kickaha]

Some scribes have extoled the virtues of slicks in the wet, I have raced in the rain on slicks,

Me too, and I've won on them more than once leaving bikes with treaded tyres a fair way behind in atrocious pissing down freezing cold conditions at Teretonga and not quite so bad conditions at Ruapuna


I am damn sure that I would never start a wet race on slick if I had a choice to do otherwise.

I would quite happily start a wet race on slicks after racing on slicks in the wet I abandoned plans on having spare wheels with wets on them as I didn't feel I needed them

My experience is on Buckets, but on slicks in the wet we used to clean up 3/4 of the 150 field

[oyster]

At the MNZ appeal meeting some stats were presented, and it was made clear they were to be challenged if anyone wasn't happy with them. No one took up the offer.

Jan 20th at Ruapuna Nat support class Streetstock
RAINING in qualifying
43 riders, (17 on treaded tyres, 26 on Grooved slicks)
Av tread lap time 2.20.8, av slick time 2.17.8
Best tread time, 2.13 (these TT900 tyres were fresh, and the rider got 2nd in the series)
Next best tread time 2.16 (again, fresh tyres, BT39SS. Rider full time rider,
huge experience in small cap and big race bikes. Recently scored 10th in an AMA superbike race in the rain)

Best slick time 2.05 This rider got first in the series (well deserved)

Who says the slicks dont work?

Now for the overall stats
86 000km, 4 years, 80 bikes, 3 circuits, 100 bikes.
22% on treaded tyres, 78% on slicks.
Average crash rate over this time:
304km per crash for treads
2089 km per crash for slicks

Who says the slicks are unsafe?

Before people (including MNZ ) jump to conclusions, they should check the facts first

[dangerous]

Bloody hell maarty... see what ya gone n done, I just got every body to bed, it was nice n quite in here :oi-grr:

[oyster]

Not too good on this quote stuff, hope this makes sense
From Maarty's post


"The conditions that day this all started well beyond bad."
If slicks were so useless, why didn't they all fall off? In fact one fell off on treads, another on slicks, who promptly got back on and qualified second.
Obviously no (slick) tyre problem with that rider, or anyone else that day. And all this prior to our decision to make grooving mandatory.

"in fact they are still going slower than times Dennis and I were doing when Tim ran the winter series!"
Of course you'd go way faster Maarty, I bought your old bike and found it chock full of illegal modifications..... I cost me heaps to restore it (wish I hadn't bought it)

"I am someone who will continue to support young riders get a leg in the door by offering them rides on my bikes.
BUT!
Not at the expense of safety."
An article in Kiwi Rider says you took a 12 year old, who'd never rider any type of road bike, to Taupo and put him on your dangerously unreliable 125GP bike and set about to lap time him. If this is your idea of safe development of young riders, sorry, you and I never going have any common ground.
Yes, we train 12 year olds, on RG50's and strict "on track" coaching for a long time. All per MNZ rules, (in excess of) then they graduate to Streetstock. That's the safe way
[/QUOTE]

[Shaun]

At the MNZ appeal meeting some stats were presented, and it was made clear they were to be challenged if anyone wasn't happy with them. No one took up the offer.

Jan 20th at Ruapuna Nat support class Streetstock
RAINING in qualifying
43 riders, (17 on treaded tyres, 26 on Grooved slicks)
Av tread lap time 2.20.8, av slick time 2.17.8
Best tread time, 2.13 (these TT900 tyres were fresh, and the rider got 2nd in the series)
Next best tread time 2.16 (again, fresh tyres, BT39SS. Rider full time rider,
huge experience in small cap and big race bikes. Recently scored 10th in an AMA superbike race in the rain)

Best slick time 2.05 This rider got first in the series (well deserved)

Who says the slicks dont work?

Now for the overall stats
86 000km, 4 years, 80 bikes, 3 circuits, 100 bikes.
22% on treaded tyres, 78% on slicks.
Average crash rate over this time:
304km per crash for treads
2089 km per crash for slicks

Who says the slicks are unsafe?

Before people (including MNZ ) jump to conclusions, they should check the facts first


Now Please show the ages of these riders for Stat reasons

ie, were the faster riders older people or Young 12-15 year olds that this was origanlly aimed at

My point is, older riders have more knoledge and common sense that the young riders this class is aimed at, so the fact the fast times were done by OLD riders, helps to cancell out the fact that slicks are OK in the wet, as the only way the older riders managed to do so well, was because they have the track time and age on there side to help make the correct desisions.

Tyres are designed by chemists and engineers, racing is a professional sport, if Slicks were actually SAFE in the wet, they would be used by the fast professionals that we are all respect, but they do not, because slicks are actually dangerous in the wet! Proven world wide fact!

[Sketchy_Racer]

Shaun I think your still thinking along the lines of BIG bikes here.

Have you got any expreience in 150SS racing? and on slicks in the wet?

And of course an older rider with more track time -should- be faster. But that isn't the point. we are looking at crash statistics here. The laps times just proove what the slicks are capable on these bikes.

One more question.

Seen as you dont like the idea of slicks in the wet, What is your bright idea to fix the so called 'problem'?

Cause I'm failing to see where the problem is to be honest. So why are you trying to fix it (or critsize it in this case)

Regards,

Glen

[roogazza]

Slicks are now good in the rain !!! ?? Have I been missing something ?
I think I'd rather listen to Shaun than some on here who have been racing
3 minutes ! I was away from bikes for 12 yrs and technology has moved forward in leaps and bounds I know, but really ? Gaz.

[Shaun]

Shaun I think your still thinking along the lines of BIG bikes here.

Have you got any expreience in 150SS racing? and on slicks in the wet?

And of course an older rider with more track time -should- be faster. But that isn't the point. we are looking at crash statistics here. The laps times just proove what the slicks are capable on these bikes.

One more question.

Seen as you dont like the idea of slicks in the wet, What is your bright idea to fix the so called 'problem'?

Cause I'm failing to see where the problem is to be honest. So why are you trying to fix it (or critsize it in this case)

Regards,

Glen


I am thinking about racing in general with my posts here

Yes I have ridden ( Not Raced) a 150, and yes I have ridden in the rain on slicks, but not on a 150

Yes older more experienced riders will have an advantage in this situation, but Peter, ( Oyster) has always talked to me about this class being there for very young riders, so the stats of age of rider is very important! did the young go fast in the wet on slicks, or did the older more experienced rider go faster?

I have not said any time that I have bright idea of how to fix this issue, I have said, that the original post was wrong, after spending my own money and talking to MNZ about it to find out the facts, I have also said that getting on the internet and bad mouthing some one or organisation will not fix this problem, I have also said that slicks are crap in the wet, and they are, just ask any top level rider from any where in the world, or look at any rules any where in the world.

What I have been trying to say and do is, hang on every one and get your facts correct, and please talk direct to MNZ people about it, and please lets get this class back to a young age limit class as it was intended to be.

No where have I been trying to fix it or critisise it, please re read my posts and think about what I have said.

[Shaun]

I will not be posting in this subject any more.

I have just read the latest post by Oyster, and is another typically weak rubbish posting, like the one last week where he just bad mouths MNZ.

This class is an important part of our racing scene, but if it is to be run by people like him, who just get on the internet and attack people, then I will cannot be bothered waisting my time any more on it.

Oyster, pull your head in, and act like a leader, not a child with nothing intelligent to say.

[Kickaha]

because slicks are actually dangerous in the wet! Proven world wide fact!

Thats incorrect, they may well be on the 600 and 1000cc bikes you're used to riding, but you admit yourself you haven't ridden a 150 in the wet on slicks so how would you know how they perform?


yes I have ridden in the rain on slicks, but not on a 150


Slicks are now good in the rain !!! ?? Have I been missing something ?

Yes you have been missing something, just remember we're talking bikes with a considerably lower power to weight ratio than any other class on the track and running narrower rims and tyres than any other class (which brings up another issue)


I think I'd rather listen to Shaun than some on here who have been racing 3 minutes ! I was away from bikes for 12 yrs and technology has moved forward in leaps and bounds I know, but really ? Gaz.

So you'd rather listen to someone (who by his own admission) hasn't ridden one of these bikes in the rain on slicks than others who have either ridden them or similar bikes or been much more involved in the class than he has?

[Tim 39]

looks to me like this thread is going round and round in circles

[dangerous]

Slicks are now good in the rain !!! ?? Have I been missing something ?
I think I'd rather listen to Shaun than some on here who have been racing
3 minutes ! I was away from bikes for 12 yrs and technology has moved forward in leaps and bounds I know, but really ? Gaz.

As Kick said mate, (you will need to read all the thread) we are talking about skinny wee fuker slicks that cut through the wet surface rather than ride up on top of it due to 3 times the contact area and 5 times the power.

[Racey Rider]

Could be stats be influenced by different tyre pressures?

When I first raced, I rode on the standard IRC rubber. heaps of tread. 33psi.
Nobody told me that wasn't a good racing option till after a crash.

Now I feel 'comfortable' with my worn out TT900's as I have by trail and error, learned how to get some heat into them with lower pressers.

Ofcourse, having said that,, I have now put the 'kiabosh' on me for my next race day :weep:


Would it be better to have a 3 year limit to streetstocks racing than an age limit?

Where are us 'old wannabe' first timers suppost to start?
F3 - Too full already.
Clubmans? Rapidly filling up + 1000/600cc bikes passing us.
125's? - Get lapped twice by the young Guns and be too embarrassed to come back again!
Then again - theres plenty of room in Vic Club Streetstocks at the moment.

[Tim 39]

To be honest I cxant see the point in having an age limit, or any sort of limit. Why give them the boot out of the class if we decide they arent going to win GP's? how bout leaving the "have fun" ones in to give the serious ones some passing practice and better racecraft experience

[Kickaha]

Would it be better to have a 3 year limit to streetstocks racing than an age limit?



thats probably the best option suggested

[Tim 39]

why the limiting though? do we want more racers? im failing to see the point...

[ajturbo]

To be honest I cxant see the point in having an age limit, or any sort of limit. Why give them the boot out of the class if we decide they arent going to win GP's? how bout leaving the "have fun" ones in to give the serious ones some passing practice and better racecraft experience

that be me...i'm out there to have fun...

but getting back to this tyre "chat"...

in the early 80's i used to race buckets.... in the wet (rivers) of woodbourn (sp?)... i had a slick on the front...could i get the front to slide???....no it was always the rear ( treaded yoky)....in fact the slick at the end of the year had canvase showing... and still it wouldn't let go!:Pokey:

would i do this on my 750 that i took around ruapuna?? fuck off :jerry::jerry:

[oyster]

Although not in MNZ rules, we've had age limits in place for 3 years now via Supp rules. The Sportzfotoz Cup has an age cap of 16 years old, and competing riders must have no more than 2 race meetings in a more senior class. So, for example, the 13 year old who won it last year who is now on a 125GP cannot "come back" and win it. We may yet add to this to say it can't be won twice, so a 13 year old can't win it everry yuear till he's 17! At the National support class series again via Supp rules we put an age cap of 19 years old, and above that is a separate class "senior". This is now applied in club meetings in the South Island, and the seniors carry red numbers on white to distinguish themselves.
All this is working really great, and I believe has also been informally applied by a sponsor in the Vic series this year.

As for "capping" the class completely. Definitely no, as we are enjoying a great culture of mums amd dads, kids and all riding together at the moment.
Streetstock is excellent for any new rider, or returning one looking for that first step of confidence.

[oyster]

Shaun.
In the South Island over the 4 years I think the average age has not changed, as we've grown from 6 to about 50 riders. Today, and during this period, about 90% under 20 years old. Of this group average age around 14, 15 years old.
The fastest, always, wet or dry, slicks or treads, about 14 years old
Certainly the "top 5" at present comprise 1 x 13 year old, 3x 14 year old and one just 15. Where the fast older ones? As we hoped for, they've graduated thru to Pro twin and 125GP
A current big influence is Young Junior Road Race. It's "feeding in" really good riders on their 13th birthday.

[Tim 39]

As for "capping" the class completely. Definitely no, as we are enjoying a great culture of mums amd dads, kids and all riding together at the moment.
Streetstock is excellent for any new rider, or returning one looking for that first step of confidence.

exactly my thoughts, racing is benefiting with this class so why "cap" it? thats what I couldnt understand. still a touch confused but so long as it doesnt happen im happy!

[Maarty]

Hi Glen, getting back to your crash, it actually made me fell sick, not for any other reason than I hate to see an accident like that. Over the years I have seen plenty and lost some good friends. While we may not agree on certain issues, it doesn't mean I like to see ANYONE hurt and that is the point of my arguement!
What made you crash? probably a combination of things, poor tyre choice (almost certinally), the painted line (probably), poor line choice, (probably) (( although this was probably more caused by the poor tyre choice that affected your line)) Inexperience?,(maybe)
Who knows, you would be the best one to tell that story.
Look, I am not going to bad mouth anyone here and I think that most have actually missed the point of this whole issue, SAFETY.
There is a vast chasim between decades of racing experience and decades of riding experience. That day at Teratonga there was probably more than 150 years of racing experience debating with 30 years of riding (not racing) experience. Which would you choose? For me it was a case of experience over ignorance( not meant in a vendictive way)
I can live with what I have done and will continue to do so.
My agend is not hidden!

Finally, like gremlin, I am out. I have followed this vitriol far enough.

regards to all

Maarty (yep! thats my real name folks!)

Ooops, Hey Pete, as strange as it sounds, those modifications didn't make enough of a differenc to warrent the effort that went into it. Dennis bike was standard and there was no real gains anywhere, appart form the fact my pegs didn't grind so much. So if your bikes are std, great, keep them so as they will probably be more reliable in the end. It was an experiment that didn,t work and was done not long before I sold that bike. FYI

[fatboy1]

MNZ have ruled and here it is. Panic stations for this weekend!

ROAD RACE (SAFETY) RULE CHANGE


The following rules are effective 1 September 2007.

22-12-10
Gazetted Tyres for 150cc Street Stock Class.
Tyres. Applies to 150cc Street Stock only.

The choice of tyre is optional, either a slick or a Dot/European approved road legal tyre on sale to the public. (No grooved slicks, modifications or treatments allowed to tyres)
All tyres fitted must be mounted on a corresponding rim as per the tyre manufactures recommendations of rim to tyre specifications. These shall be gazetted on the MNZ web site and up dated as necessary.
Tyre warmers not allowed.
Should the steward call the race wet then the rider, may use a DOT /European approved road legal tyre or a full race wet weather tyre marked not for highway may be used. (No slicks or grooved slicks allowed).
Wet race: A race if classified as wet, usually commenced in varying or wet conditions, will not be interrupted for climatic reasons and riders who wish to change tyres or make adjustments must enter the pits and do so during the actual race.
Should track conditions change due to climatic conditions after a race has started the steward shall stop the race to enable competitors to change their tyres Rule 6-13 will apply. Conditions for stopping and restarting a race Refer Rule 6-13.
On safety grounds a steward may stop the race should the conditions be considered dangerous.

[Tim 39]

the only way it could've been sorted out realy.
at least now the rules are more open as far as tyre choice

[Maarty]

Hi Team,
Sorry, one last comment re my previous posts.
the time Dennis and I did were relative to that time. It in no way denegrates the efforts of the amazing young men and womens efforts of today. The track at the time was substancially better in surface condition. I simply made a point that was relative to that time so please all you 150ss riders, don't be offended by that statement.
By the way tim, I think you will find that the tyre manufacturers don't support the 150 rim sizes with the current tyre spec's.

Regards

Maarty

[Sketchy_Racer]

Hi Glen, getting back to your crash, it actually made me fell sick, not for any other reason than I hate to see an accident like that. Over the years I have seen plenty and lost some good friends. While we may not agree on certain issues, it doesn't mean I like to see ANYONE hurt and that is the point of my arguement!
What made you crash? probably a combination of things, poor tyre choice (almost certinally), the painted line (probably), poor line choice, (probably) (( although this was probably more caused by the poor tyre choice that affected your line)) Inexperience?,(maybe)


Hey Maarty,

I think your quite correct in that combination.

After plenty of time sitting and thinking, i believe that Inexperience in selecting the right tyre (should not have been out there on that new slick) combined with the paint and possibly poor line chioce (??)

I feel this was one of the true 'racing accidents' where it was a combination of things to cause one big problem.

I guess that hindsight is a wonderful thing, and that I have learned something from it :)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the Tyre rule.

I think the new rule posted above is probably the best way to go about it. Sure it's not perfect, but its about as good as its going to get. Looks like streetstock riders may only be racing in the dry if they can't afford or don't want to buy treaded road tyres.

Cheers,

-Glen

[Kickaha]

All tyres fitted must be mounted on a corresponding rim as per the tyre manufactures recommendations of rim to tyre specifications.

There won't be any slicks being used then

[oyster]

"Gazetted Tyres for 150cc Street Stock Class.
Tyre sizes, 80/90, 90/90, 95/70, 90/65, 110/80, 110/90"

This is straight off the MNZ website, just now. It wasn't there this morning, so I contacted Paul Stewart to get it on.

This matter of tyre to rim matching is new (post July1st) and was first raised at the appeal meeting in Chch. Kick, you were there. The minutes said we voted unanimously in favour of this, which was not true and we refused to "sign off" the minutes re this and other matters incorrectly recorded.

In discussion with Johnny Hepburn, Board Member, Road last week he said this
gazetted list was to prevent extremes of fitment, and our current practices
were fine. I suggested a tolerance for front and rear, based on this, which was agreed to be submitted to the Road Race commisioner, who accepted it.
The tolerance was simple. 80/90min to 90/90 max front, 100/80min to 120/80 max rear.
This has not been accepted (it seems), but is able to be reviewed, so we are applying for a correction.
As it stands, even the popular 100/80 Dunlop tt900 and
Bridgestone BT39 sizes are excluded.
The rear sizes seem to be the problem, as they're only allowing the official manufacturer's "parts book" sizes.
The tyre manufactures, however, do allow 100/80 and 120/80 fitment to the 2.15 and 2.50 rims fitted to the popular 150's
Hopefully some news update tomorrow, we've a big race meeting on Sat!

[gav]

Why is a grooved slick not allowed for dry conditions? Surely a grooved slick should in theory heat up quicker and perform better?

[Sketchy_Racer]

cause appprently grooving tyres is not allowed... even though every other flippen class in NZ is allowed to do it!

[oyster]

I've just had an e-mail from MNZ

120/80 is now allowed, but 120/70 is prohibited.

Can someone help make sense of this?

[Kickaha]

I've just had an e-mail from MNZ

120/80 is now allowed, but 120/70 is prohibited.

Can someone help make sense of this?

As you do down in profile, the optimum rim sizes for the tyre change, it could be to do with that and even a 120/80-17 is meant to go on a minimum 2.5 wide rim

[Tim 39]

are 115 125gp slicks allowed??

[oyster]

Kick, some brands allow 120/80 on a 1.15 rim. See the Dunlop TT900 book, page 17. It's OK. Thanks for explanation re ratio etc, but still, if 120/80 OK,
surely 120/70 OK?

[oyster]

Sorry I mean 2.15 rim
Tim, no the 115 tyes ex the 125's are not allowed. All those years of successfully using these seem to be not enough to deem them OK.

[Joni]

So Pete, how much will the new rule affect your guys/gals? Will your field become much smaller?

Very sad if that is the case.

[oyster]

Thanks for your concern Joni. Whether we're right or wrong in our theories, the big concern is that we might see a skyrocket in accidents. At the last 3 race meetings we logged 7 accidents, 2 quite serious. One was on slicks, but had no connection with tyres. The other 6 were all treaded type tyres. Most were sudden "front tuck" crashes. Not pleasant. And, at present this type of tyre still only represents about 30% of total (the rest slicks or Sport Prod type). Do the maths if they all went to treads. Not too good.

The new rule is workable, but the newly introduced restriction on sizes you can fit rules out slicks or Sport Prod type tyre on the rear. So we're still a bit on the back foot.

Not sure what it'll do to numbers. The irony is that when they get a senior licence they can call their bikes Formula 3 spec and move up to F3 on their "old" ex Streetstock bike. Not an ideal arrangement by any means.

If we can get the rear tyre sizes (115/65 and 120/70) we have tried and proven as safe then it's all good. Just one last step, hopefully not to big!!!!

Thanks again for your support

[skaz]

I got a mate whos tryin to get tyres sorted for this weekend at ruapuna. Hes just put a 90 slick on the back and what looks like a rather shit road tyre on the front. I told him that i think he would be better off puting the slick back on the front and throwing a 120/60 dunlop gpr70 ive got on the back, but hes not sure if it will pass scutineering. Any suggestions?

[Tim 39]

I got a mate whos tryin to get tyres sorted for this weekend at ruapuna. Hes just put a 90 slick on the back and what looks like a rather shit road tyre on the front. I told him that i think he would be better off puting the slick back on the front and throwing a 120/60 dunlop gpr70 ive got on the back, but hes not sure if it will pass scutineering. Any suggestions?
He can't put that GPR70 on, it has to be the back slick im afraid (its a 95), the MT75 (front tyre) is what Ivan thinks are alright. will be interesting to see what everyone else has though

[Tim 39]

125 front slicks can be used on the back ... http://dunlopracing.com/fitment.htm
but they dont make slicks narrow enough for the front (1.85")

[Kickaha]

are 115 125gp slicks allowed??

Radial slicks generally run a wider rim for the same size tyre, even the old 105 wide Bridgestone slicks were meant to be fitted to a 3.00 wide rim, I think you'll find the 115 Dunlop is meant to be on a 3.50 wide rim


Kick, some brands allow 120/80 on a 1.15 rim. See the Dunlop TT900 book, page 17. It's OK.

I hope you mean 2.15? :lol: I checked our own website and it says from 2.15-3.0 with 2.75 being the optimum


Thanks for explanation re ratio etc, but still, if 120/80 OK,
surely 120/70 OK?

I would have thought so however the only info I can find on them is for radial fronts which spec a 3.00-3.50 with 3.50 being the optimum

[Tim 39]

I hope you bucket guys need new tyres because there'll be 60 sets of grooved slicks for sale soon!!!