MotoGP ***SPOILER*** conspiracies... [Archive]

riffer

2nd October 2004, 22:54

Slim

2nd October 2004, 23:22

Strangest racing I've ever seen! :blink:

No crowds around the circuit at all
No scantily clad females for the camera crew to occupy themselves spotting, and zooming in on, during lulls in the racing <_<
The pit "chicks"!!! :gob: :buggerd:
The main stands on the start/finish straight are just about empty
No champagne for the podium finishers to spray around

James Deuce

2nd October 2004, 23:33

So Rossi has to start from the back of the grid as Jeremy Burgess and crew were caught doing burnouts (with a scooter of all things) on Rossi's start position on the grid...

What were they thinking?

And now I hear Biaggi's team were scrubbing his start position and now Biaggi has to start from the back as well as Rossi...

Or is it just that Repsol Honda are just a pack of snitches?

What gives with the MotoGP?

I sniff a conspiracy.... ;)

Sete Gibernau joked that he was going to clean the sand off his grid position, so a couple of teams posted spies and busted the "evildoers". Rumour has Fortuna laid the protest so that Careless Chucker, oops, Carlos Checa wouldn't over ride trying to get away from Rossi and Biaggi.

No conspiracy, and Jeremy Burgess admitted that the team tried to lay rubber on Rossi's start position. No word from Biaggi's team yet.

riffer

2nd October 2004, 23:37

I know there's no conspiracy, but gee, what's next - lawyer sessions and protests a la America's Cup.

And those brolly "girls" - the ugliest I've ever seen...

Oh well, on with the racing - game on...

k14

3rd October 2004, 00:53

Well he managed to get up to 4th before crashing. I reckon if that is the case that he should start from the back every single race. Would definately be good watching then.

TonyB

4th October 2004, 07:44

Has anyone in Chch got a tape of this that they could lend me? Been kinda busy and didn't realise it was on Saturday :o

vifferman

4th October 2004, 08:20

I'm not in Chch, but I can post you one if you don't have any luck. (Slim did the same for me, so it's only fair.) PM me if you get stuck.

What a crap circuit! What were they thinking, letting them join the GP circus? Bad enough having ripple strips that are too short, and such a weird layout, but having it in the middle of the desert, so it's constantly getting covered in sand and dust? Probably ferks up their engines too, sucking in all that crap. No wonder there were so many retirements and crashes. And the heat? 51C!!

If the organisers were smarter, instead of penalising Rossi and Biaggi, they would have just cleaned the grid so everyone was on the same footing. They could've still penalised them if they had to, but been a bit less harsh about it. Potentially pharking up someone's title chances for something so trivial? :spudwhat:

Well he managed to get up to 4th before crashing. I reckon if that is the case that he should start from the back every single race. Would definately be good watching then.Yeah, we were laughing about it at home: Rossi: "At last - the monkey god gets to have a proper race! Wheeee!!"
Others: "Phark! They've put The Doctor behind us?!?! What were they thinking!?!"
Barros: "No stopping The Doctor. Not even my special body block could put him off!"
Rossi: "Sorry! My bad..."

Blakamin

4th October 2004, 08:39

What a crap circuit! What were they thinking, letting them join the GP circus? Bad enough having ripple strips that are too short, and such a weird layout, but having it in the middle of the desert, so it's constantly getting covered in sand and dust?

That was exactly what I thought... It should be scrapped from next years calender NOW!

jrandom

4th October 2004, 08:42

That was exactly what I thought... It should be scrapped from next years calender NOW!

Anyone know which one they're scrapping to make way for Laguna Seca next year?

riffer

4th October 2004, 08:48

Anyone know which one they're scrapping to make way for Laguna Seca next year?
Probably Donnington. After all, the F1 cars are disappearing from England...

jrandom

4th October 2004, 08:53

Probably Donnington. After all, the F1 cars are disappearing from England...

Noooo. Really? Donington is one of the best (if you don't count the reported state of the track amenities, anyway). Surely they wouldn't can it from the schedule.

vifferman

4th October 2004, 08:56

Probably Donnington. After all, the F1 cars are disappearing from England...Nup - it's still in. I think they're adding one, and Shanghai is in as well!

http://motogp.tiscali.com/en/motogp/news_info/news_info_12658_1.htm

riffer

4th October 2004, 09:18

I just don't know - can't see a future for Donnington unless they spend heaps of money making the journos happy...

At Qatar they couldn't stop going on about how great the facilities were - they didn't give a shit about how the track was not good for riding on...

It's a bit like Carisbrook down in Dunners. Fantastic atmosphere but crap pitch and even more crap journo facilities. End result - no test matches next year in Dunners.

merv

4th October 2004, 10:13

Well he managed to get up to 4th before crashing. I reckon if that is the case that he should start from the back every single race. Would definately be good watching then.

Interesting thing was how he made so much ground at the start including passing Colin Edwards who said he had a duff start, but Colin passed him back and in pursuit of Colin is when Rossi decked it. Colin seemed a bit tongue in cheek in the interviews and by all accounts was the man with the pace on Saturday but didn't challenge Sete in the end and said that for the team it was the best result i.e. Sete got the points.

Coldkiwi

4th October 2004, 11:29

Nup - it's still in. I think they're adding one, and Shanghai is in as well!

http://motogp.tiscali.com/en/motogp/news_info/news_info_12658_1.htm

from what I saw of the last F1 round, shanghai could be a darn good circuit for the bikes. Lots of run off areas, plenty of corners and hairpins at the end of ridiculous straights. classy buildings too (Still can't believe it went from rice paddy to A-grade circuit in 1 year)
The chinese Govt are sure throwing some money into western sporting events leading up to the 2008 Olympics!

TonyB

4th October 2004, 11:31

I'm not in Chch, but I can post you one if you don't have any luck. (Slim did the same for me, so it's only fair.) PM me if you get stuck.

Cheers- very generous of you. I'll let you know. I'm going to have to stop reading this thread- gives too much away. I'll say this though- they should've red flagged the Japan round, what a crap race that turned into! Surely if most of the top contenders are taken out at the first bend they should have another crack at it.

gav

4th October 2004, 15:04

Where are you Tony? I've taped it on Long Play.
Not sure about all the Pit Chicks, but where was this honey hiding??
http://moto.racing-live.com/photos/2004/qatar/diapo_050.jpg

vifferman

4th October 2004, 15:22

Cheers- very generous of you. I'll let you know. No worries, Matey.

I'm going to have to stop reading this thread- gives too much away. I'll say this though- they should've red flagged the Japan round, what a crap race that turned into! Surely if most of the top contenders are taken out at the first bend they should have another crack at it.Yeah, it did rather put a damper on things, and take some of the excitement out of it.

gav

5th October 2004, 07:20

See that bit that says SPOILER ??? what do you think that means? :doh:

riffer

5th October 2004, 07:45

See that bit that says SPOILER ??? what do you think that means? :doh:
Gav - you took the words outta my mouth....

Ghost Lemur

5th October 2004, 15:49

TonyB

5th October 2004, 16:00

Where are you Tony? I've taped it on Long Play.
Not sure about all the Pit Chicks, but where was this honey hiding??

Heathcote. I work in Marshlands. My mate did tape over it, so if you've still got it let me know and I'll come and grab it. Firestormer, looks like Gav has saved you a lot of hassle, thanks again for offering!
As for the spoiler thing- fair call, doesn't matter if I do know the result though, it'll still be good to watch. :banana:

merv

5th October 2004, 17:35

Well that had me spewing.

Still think Rossi will do it though. And making up as many places as he did in the time frame he did, just shows the sort of rider he is.

My second choice for Rossi team mate after Edwards (supposedly they get along fantastically after being team mates in the Suzuka 8hr) would be Tamada. If Yammy could pinch Tamada to team with Rossi would be heavenly. He's had a good season this year but think he'll be even better next. Dunno if Edwards is good enough to truely be great.

I'm an Edwards fan because to me he is one of the best. As I said back further, remember he actually passed Rossi once he got going properly and Rossi crashed trying to stay with him. Edwards had been fastest all weekend except when it counted in qualifying because his #1 bike shit itself and he had to ride #2 with old chassis until they fixed his #1. By then it was too late for QP2 and he was down in 10th. Next day back on #1 he was quickest in the warmup, only Rossi came close, and in the race he set the lap record. I reckon he could have passed Gibernau but played the gentleman and sat in 2nd for the team, and presumably his contract negotiations. Couldn't do much better than that. Now he finally has a bike with a chassis to match the new wider tyre the boy is getting going. Motegi was no measure for him because Lynda's boy Cap knocked them all off in the first turn. Rumour has it he is going to join Rossi next year but we have to wait and see. Honda may finally come to their senses and give him the right deal.

Here's the best the man can tell us so far http://ceracing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4426&start=0&sid=00db23f6b0e8d23858dcb9a94de7678f

merv

5th October 2004, 17:53

... and what I like about Edwards is his down to earth style. He does a reasonable interview and so did Sete and Ruben then they let Sete do a Spanish version. Colin thinking "I'm next" says "can I do mine in redneck?" Bugger they just laughed and passed over to Ruben to do his Spanish version.

Here's the latest comment from the man as he was passing through Hong Kong airport http://ceracing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4535&start=0&sid=00db23f6b0e8d23858dcb9a94de7678f

Remember too he is 4th in the championship while suffering the problem of riding a Honda well down the pecking order. The other ex-superbikers aren't close.

If anyone has a bike over in Aus after the GP Colin is doing a ride day at Eastern Creek on Wed 20th according to this http://ceracing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4399&sid=00db23f6b0e8d23858dcb9a94de7678f

merv

5th October 2004, 18:08

I liked this comment too about Bayliss crying http://ceracing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4532&sid=00db23f6b0e8d23858dcb9a94de7678f but what the guys on that forum don't know is that he's upset because Lynda wears Capirossi Ducati gear and has Chili's number 7 on her bike and he just found that out.

6th October 2004, 04:06

Ghost Lemur

6th October 2004, 12:15

.
Holy shit, the secret's out!

.

Hate to tell you Lynda, 'twas ever a secret. :whistle:

badlieutenant

6th October 2004, 20:47

Interesting thing was how he made so much ground at the start including passing Colin Edwards who said he had a duff start, but Colin passed him back and in pursuit of Colin is when Rossi decked it. Colin seemed a bit tongue in cheek in the interviews and by all accounts was the man with the pace on Saturday but didn't challenge Sete in the end and said that for the team it was the best result i.e. Sete got the points.

ok theres no doubting colins skill as a rider but i have to say Im not a big fan of his. I found his comments after the qatar round when asked if he'd have over taken sete if he had caught up. His reply was (something like this) "you should be asking if I wanted too. We are on the same team". Wonder what aaron slight would have to say about this? Can anyone remember the incident to which Im refering ? Involving a collision between colin and aaron in WSB 1999, they were both on the same team and colin was at fault. If hed done the team thing they would have secured a 2nd and 3rd positon for castrol honda. Fogarty was gona win the championship either way.
I know accidents happen but I remember the commentators remarking on what bad form it was for colin to go in hot on slight and tap out his rear wheel. Edwards should have, at that point in his career, known better.
Aaron looked pissed as he stood in gravel shaking his fist at edwards. :stoogie:

TonyB

7th October 2004, 15:52

If hed done the team thing they would have secured a 2nd and 3rd positon for castrol honda. Fogarty was gona win the championship either way.
I know accidents happen but I remember the commentators remarking on what bad form it was for colin to go in hot on slight and tap out his rear wheel. Edwards should have, at that point in his career, known better.
Aaron looked pissed as he stood in gravel shaking his fist at edwards. :stoogie:
I remember that incident as well- highly pissed I was. I also recall it wasn't the only time Edwards made Slights life difficult.
I guess the issue was who was going to be second and who was going to be third. Honda didn't do Slighty any favours, so I can't imagine they ever told Edwards to let Slight stay in front.
I reckon Edwards is a very good rider, but back in those days at least I don't think he was much good at developing a bike. I remember it being obvious that Slight was the driving force behind the development.

When Edwards and Bayliss went to MotoGP I was sure they would do well. Haga too. They've looked pretty ordinary, but the problem is they're not necessarily getting the best bikes or even tyres- look what's happened in the WSBK just because they're all on the same rubber. Top level racing is never a level playing feild. Tis a shame. Perhaps someone should come up with a champions series or something to be run after the MotoGP and Superbikes- everyone gets the same bikes, same tyres for three or four races. I'd love to see that. I recall Slight beating Mick Dohan in a similar situation- vaaaary interesting.

Big Dog

7th October 2004, 16:31

It's a bit like Carisbrook down in Dunners. Fantastic atmosphere but crap pitch and even more crap journo facilities. End result - no test matches next year in Dunners.
Aye, but Carisbrook has had more than one year to get it right could it be that the commentators where just cutting some slack? commenting on what was good and giving just the briefest mention of what sucked? My opinion of the quality of the tack is firmly reserved until we see wehter they have learnt anything from this years fiasco next year. eg will they give us some pit chicks or will they continue to expect the commentators to fill the dead air with the same comments over and over? How come there was no non alc champers like F1 had for Bahrain?

badlieutenant

7th October 2004, 17:13

I remember that incident as well- highly pissed I was. I also recall it wasn't the only time Edwards made Slights life difficult.
I guess the issue was who was going to be second and who was going to be third. Honda didn't do Slighty any favours, so I can't imagine they ever told Edwards to let Slight stay in front.
I reckon Edwards is a very good rider, but back in those days at least I don't think he was much good at developing a bike. I remember it being obvious that Slight was the driving force behind the development.

When Edwards and Bayliss went to MotoGP I was sure they would do well. Haga too. They've looked pretty ordinary, but the problem is they're not necessarily getting the best bikes or even tyres- look what's happened in the WSBK just because they're all on the same rubber. Top level racing is never a level playing feild. Tis a shame. Perhaps someone should come up with a champions series or something to be run after the MotoGP and Superbikes- everyone gets the same bikes, same tyres for three or four races. I'd love to see that. I recall Slight beating Mick Dohan in a similar situation- vaaaary interesting.

I was pretty sure I wasnt the only one who remembered that, and your right honda didnt treat slight very well at all. I think the real burn came when he'd spent alot of time developing the new bike and then had his operation on his head. When he came back Edwards had his bike and no-one even acknowleged his contribution to honda, I recall hearing rossi had similar treatment. I sometimes wonder what if Slighty hadnt been so loyal to honda and had joined fogarty on a duke on the same team. Would have been interesting :D. I hope Rossi sticks it to honda.
Read a recent interview with Wayne Rainey. They asked him why he never went to Honda. He replied that he loved watching the frustration of the HRC boss after a win.
That would be very interesting racing (Id put my money on Rossi :D) and as for WSBK's I used to watch it all the time, I dont bother now. which is a shame, I really used to enjoy it.
Maybe a top rider bucket race ? :D

merv

7th October 2004, 18:23

ok theres no doubting colins skill as a rider but i have to say Im not a big fan of his. I found his comments after the qatar round when asked if he'd have over taken sete if he had caught up. His reply was (something like this) "you should be asking if I wanted too. We are on the same team". Wonder what aaron slight would have to say about this? Can anyone remember the incident to which Im refering ? Involving a collision between colin and aaron in WSB 1999, they were both on the same team and colin was at fault. If hed done the team thing they would have secured a 2nd and 3rd positon for castrol honda. Fogarty was gona win the championship either way.
I know accidents happen but I remember the commentators remarking on what bad form it was for colin to go in hot on slight and tap out his rear wheel. Edwards should have, at that point in his career, known better.
Aaron looked pissed as he stood in gravel shaking his fist at edwards. :stoogie:

Yeah I remember the incident well. I am a great fan of Slight too and was a paid up member of Slight Advantage at the time. However, I think you are bagging Colin a bit over the top for that incident because unfortunately around that time Slight started tangling with all sorts of people. Unbeknownst to all of us, the man himself included, he was heading towards his head problem and I think he was getting very frustrated, wasn't always qualifying well, and was tied up in battles he perhaps shouldn't have been.

Earlier of course all of this pales into insignificance compared to his days with Kocinski as a team mate (1997). Aaron could have got 2nd that year if it wasn't for Kocinski's behaviour at the end, but then he wanted to win 10 races that year so he had his own goal - got 9 if I remember rightly.

Aaron wasn't clean of these sorts of incidents either as Lynda will remember when he took out her beloved Chili near the end of a race when passing him.

Overall, remember the main team mates Aaron had at Honda in WSBK - Polen, Fogarty, Kocinski, Edwards. In the end I am sure he would say Edwards was the best of them. The others certainly never treated him well, that's if they even spoke to him. Him and Edwards were quite close but in the end the pressure probably did separate them a bit.

badlieutenant

7th October 2004, 19:24

Yeah I remember the incident well. I am a great fan of Slight too and was a paid up member of Slight Advantage at the time. However, I think you are bagging Colin a bit over the top for that incident because unfortunately around that time Slight started tangling with all sorts of people. Unbeknownst to all of us, the man himself included, he was heading towards his head problem and I think he was getting very frustrated, wasn't always qualifying well, and was tied up in battles he perhaps shouldn't have been.

Earlier of course all of this pales into insignificance compared to his days with Kocinski as a team mate (1997). Aaron could have got 2nd that year if it wasn't for Kocinski's behaviour at the end, but then he wanted to win 10 races that year so he had his own goal - got 9 if I remember rightly.

Aaron wasn't clean of these sorts of incidents either as Lynda will remember when he took out her beloved Chili near the end of a race when passing him.

Overall, remember the main team mates Aaron had at Honda in WSBK - Polen, Fogarty, Kocinski, Edwards. In the end I am sure he would say Edwards was the best of them. The others certainly never treated him well, that's if they even spoke to him. Him and Edwards were quite close but in the end the pressure probably did separate them a bit.

your right and Im a little bit guilty of baiting a fellow viffer rider :D I read your post on edwards and had a pang of "that bastard! I remember...". I dont think many of those guys can be painted as saints. Competitive people under pressure make mistakes (rossi on sunday knocking out carlos i think it was).
Always thought Slight would one day be champ but circumstances just never quite went his way. Any theories why he was treated badly by his team mates?

White trash

8th October 2004, 07:22

Aaron wasn't clean of these sorts of incidents either as Lynda will remember when he took out her beloved Chili near the end of a race when passing him.

A frequent misconception. I've seen a series of stills from another angle and although they were close, they never touched. There was about a foot between them. Chilli lost the front, plain and simple.

After a cooling off period, apparently Chilli retracted his coments of being taken out.

manuboy

8th October 2004, 08:45

merv

8th October 2004, 09:15

A frequent misconception. I've seen a series of stills from another angle and although they were close, they never touched. There was about a foot between them. Chilli lost the front, plain and simple.

After a cooling off period, apparently Chilli retracted his coments of being taken out.

So it was the antigravitational karma force of Aaron then!!

merv

8th October 2004, 09:20

Just to add to all the comments above, earlier the journos kept saying every time Rossi got near Max, Max would bin it under pressure. Lately of course Max tangled with Capirossi a couple of times.

The classics of all time in WSBK to me though were the times Fogarty crumbled under the pressure from Kocinski and he fell often that year whether or not it was Kocinski he was tangling with. Simon Crafar was the unfortunate in some of those occasions.

This thread started on conspiracies. I guess mainly these things always happen when the stakes are high - reference to rules, protests, crashes, blame, accusation of bias on the part of the officials and all that stuff.

Big Dog

8th October 2004, 14:13

Always thought Slight would one day be champ but circumstances just never quite went his way. Any theories why he was treated badly by his team mates?
I reckon it was because (according to a lot of stuff I have read) he would refuse to listen to advice from his senior rider then promptly tell the techs what was wrong with the bikes and go out for another lap just to be sure. By all accounts (including his own) he got on better with his bikes and his pit crew than the rest of the team.

badlieutenant

8th October 2004, 15:32

I reckon it was because (according to a lot of stuff I have read) he would refuse to listen to advice from his senior rider then promptly tell the techs what was wrong with the bikes and go out for another lap just to be sure. By all accounts (including his own) he got on better with his bikes and his pit crew than the rest of the team.
LOL sounds like the behaviour of a kiwi, only respecting people who actually DO stuff :D

badlieutenant

8th October 2004, 15:36

sort of back to topic. I missed the racing this year where, in the 125 cc class, the leader raised his hand to call the race off and the field ignored him and racing continued. Apparently this happened a few times and the racing officials never intervened. Something to do with time management and broadcasting times for the main races. Are the guys on the smaller bikes getting screwed safety wise ? whats the story ?

TonyB

8th October 2004, 20:24

Nobody has mention so far Rossi's amazing "whoops - i hit you on the entry, so while still doing a zillion miles per hour at the apex i'll take a hand off the bars and say sorry, then on the exit while laying into the gas, i'll turn fully round and say sorry again" move!!!

or is this something you regularly expect from a freak like Rossi?

AND Who was the guy i watched in the superbikes last week(?) who crashed during the warm up lap, got a ride back from either team mate or a competitor, and then managed to ride from 16th or 18th to 6th on a scary scary looking circuit??????? (i had the sound down)... :no: :no:

Totaly agree about Rossi. I can never decide:
1) if he's just trying to pass by completely stuffing the other guys line,
2) if he out braked himself and made a mistake
3) if he's trying to put the other guy in the sand trap

That said, I think he's a rare talent.

The WSBK dude is Chris Vermulen, track was Imola. He had to ride from the pit lane and was dead last (27th I think). He had to hop to his bike after getting a lift from a Ducati rider. It's a shame (I haven't seen the final round yet) I really thought he would win the championship- I would've loved that: a guy on a non factory backed bike that is based on a standard approx $20K road bike beats a hole heap of factory backed bikes based on a approx $40K homolgomation special.... :killingme