Now I've heard it all

[Grub]

Needle exchange programmes urged for prisons
By JENNY LING - The Dominion Post | Tuesday, 28 August 2007

Needle exchange programmes in prisons and counsellors in police cells are being touted as solutions to drug use in jails.

And here was I thinking that the way to solve the problem was not to let prisoners have drugs and/or needles in prison in the first place. :nono:

This will gladden the hearts and give the do-gooders something to feel all warm and fuzzy about. Perhaps they could also knit nice little needle covers so that the needles don't get dirty when not in use? I think that would be a very useful and caring thing to do.

[Nasty]

Ya see i have to disagree with you darling ... have you ever tried stopping a man trying to get what he wants ... with that crap its damn near impossible! :bash:

[Grub]

Nah, I still think that the prison service could stop the transfer of contriband, it's just not very "nice" to do so - so they don't.

The world has gone bloody mad.

[karmakillernz]

You're never going to stop them using while in prison, I agree, but I don't think you should make it easy or 'acceptable' either.

Besides, they have nothing else to do while they're in there except smuggle in contriband - don't take away their fun. ;)

[Ocean1]

Sick ain't it. Actually I don't have an issue with them doing drugs, I do have a serious problem with how they're paying for it. It demonstrates that they've still got a hugely negative impact on society, not what most of us would hope a prison term would allow.

[Albino]

It's like cellphones - lets put in all this technology that costs huge dollars into prisons to block cellphone reception.

If they can stop people taking things onto aeroplanes then why the #$#*%& can't the stop people taking drugs and phones into prisons.

[Her_C4]

It's like cellphones - lets put in all this technology that costs huge dollars into prisons to block cellphone reception.

If they can stop people taking things onto aeroplanes then why the #$#*%& can't the stop people taking drugs and phones into prisons.

How do you propose they stop all this contraband? you are of course aware that Prison staff have to abide by law/legislation?

There is currently NO legislation in NZ that authorises the use of body cavity searches (including the mouth) to search for said contraband... Do you have any imagination? Are you aware of the lengths that inmates (and visitors) will go to bring in said contraband??

[Albino]

Well change the law then.

Jeez that taxed the imagination.....

[Ocean1]

Are you aware of the lengths that inmates (and visitors) will go to bring in said contraband??

Pretty much the same lengths that put them there in the first place, we obviously didn't do a real good job of enforcement there either. Fer gawds sake, it ain't rocket science, ifn' ya going to have a law ya really need to be able to enforce it. Otherwise just don't bother wasting everyone's time.

[Her_C4]

Well change the law then.

Jeez that taxed the imagination.....

Exactly - now good luck getting some support and consensus from all the lobbyists for that :buggerd:

[Grub]

Do you have any imagination? Are you aware of the lengths that inmates (and visitors) will go to bring in said contraband??

Yeah of course we're aware of the lengths they go to. The answer is obvious and simple. Put perspex barriers up between inmates and visitors and make the fences too high to throw stuff over and put netting over the exercise yards to stop things dropping in.

If nobody likes that as an idea, that's tough. The crims and their friends want to break the embargoes, then they are the authors of their own inconvenience - nobody else is. If they abuse the trust that the system gives them to have physical contact with inmates then the preventative consequences are just.

[ManDownUnder]

Drugs are bad, and I understand going cold turkey's a bitch... but then so's life and they'll save so much money after they're no longer addicated... not to mention the fact they might not have to resort to crime to pay for their fucked up habits.

No drugs, isolation for anyone testing positive, have liufe support handy in case they need it while sweating shitting and cursing themselves silly over the next .. 2 days 5 days 4 weeks - whatever the hell.

If they're dumb enough to go back onto drugs while inside they get to do it all over again...

WHY is this so hard????
*ding* next

[imdying]

No drugs, isolation for anyone testing positive, have liufe support handy in case they need it while sweating shitting and cursing themselves silly over the next .. 2 days 5 days 4 weeks - whatever the hell.

If they're dumb enough to go back onto drugs while inside they get to do it all over again..I would prefer if the test positive, their sentence restarts. If they're not clean, then we don't need them back.

[007XX]

Drugs are bad, and I understand going cold turkey's a bitch... but then so's life and they'll save so much money after they're no longer addicated... not to mention the fact they might not have to resort to crime to pay for their fucked up habits.

No drugs, isolation for anyone testing positive, have liufe support handy in case they need it while sweating shitting and cursing themselves silly over the next .. 2 days 5 days 4 weeks - whatever the hell.

If they're dumb enough to go back onto drugs while inside they get to do it all over again...

WHY is this so hard????
*ding* next

Why is it hard??? Because your arguments would (possibly) work on people with a shred of normal and reasonable mental capacity...We are talking of individuals that do not live on the same standard as ours, who no longer feel integrated or a part of society and therefor do not give a crap whether they conform or not...

Saving money is a foreign concept to them and would not be a valid weighing factor...

And yes, most of them are dumb enough to go back on drugs! how smart can you be in the first to end up in prison??? I mean c'mon, these people DO NOT think like you and I...

Also, do you seriously think that prison staff would want to be stuck as Detox nurses? they are neither trained for this or paid to do such a dirty job...

I have helped a friend going cold turkey while in Paris, and trust me, that is way bigger a task than it seems...You have to be monitoring that person 24/7.

Anyway, rant over...

[Her_C4]

Yeah of course we're aware of the lengths they go to. The answer is obvious and simple. Put perspex barriers up between inmates and visitors and make the fences too high to throw stuff over and put netting over the exercise yards to stop things dropping in.

If nobody likes that as an idea, that's tough. The crims and their friends want to break the embargoes, then they are the authors of their own inconvenience - nobody else is. If they abuse the trust that the system gives them to have physical contact with inmates then the punishment is just.

How naive .... where there is a will there is a way.

By all means lets make the prisons staff job a WHOLE lot easier. And make sure that all children are included - even babies, in terms of non-contact visits.

I strongly suspect that there would be no argument from any quarter within Prisons on any or all of these as a part measure... after all, they have been mooted for the last 20 years that I know of - (and I suspect a whole lot more).

Do you think these ideas are new?

The key I am trying to get at here, is that we can reinvent the wheel until the cows come home but unless we get some REALLY strong champions to change the legislation and address those lobbyists that care so profoundly for the inmates individual rights - regardless of their penchant for crime, drugs or other activities that push the boundaries of 'acceptable' society rules - then you are pushing shit uphill.

[Her_C4]

Also, do you seriously think that prison staff would want to be stuck as Detox nurses? they are neither trained for this or paid to do such a dirty job...

I have helped a friend going cold turkey while in Paris, and trust me, that is way bigger a task than it seems...You have to be monitoring that person 24/7.

Anyway, rant over...

Agree with everything you have said here - it is a HUUUUUGE task that has to be fitted in amongst a number of other unseen HUUUUUUUGE tasks.
:gob:

[Ocean1]

Why is it hard??? Because your arguments would (possibly) work on people with a shred of normal and reasonable mental capacity...We are talking of individuals that do not live on the same standard as ours, who no longer feel integrated or a part of society and therefor do not give a crap whether they conform or not...

Hard or easy don't matter. What matters is the the law says "Thou shalt NOT..." So what'ryagunado? Just figure "Oh well, we tried."

Sorry, it don't matter how normal or reasonable they are, they don't get to continue to fuck the rest of us around.


You have to be monitoring that person 24/7.


Sooo... bit like doing proper poridge then?

[007XX]

Agree with everything you have said here - it is a HUUUUUGE task that has to be fitted in amongst a number of other unseen HUUUUUUUGE tasks.
:gob:

Thanks, and yes, most definitely...that was one of the most interesting and terrifying conversation I ever had: with a prison guard from the States, who transfered here and kept in the same line of work...I won't go into details, but I am not an easily impressed person, but some of the stories that were recounted were truly mind boggling!

It's a different world we law abiding folks can't even start to comprehend...:nono:

[sAsLEX]

I understand going cold turkey's a bitch...

I will go cold turkey tomorrow ....... no skin off my neck.



imho thats a weak excuse for the majority they have got themselves in that situation, get themselves out!

[ManDownUnder]

Why is it hard??? Because your arguments would (possibly) work on people with a shred of normal and reasonable mental capacity...We are talking of individuals that do not live on the same standard as ours, who no longer feel integrated or a part of society and therefor do not give a crap whether they conform or not...

Saving money is a foreign concept to them and would not be a valid weighing factor...

And yes, most of them are dumb enough to go back on drugs! how smart can you be in the first to end up in prison??? I mean c'mon, these people DO NOT think like you and I...

Also, do you seriously think that prison staff would want to be stuck as Detox nurses? they are neither trained for this or paid to do such a dirty job...

I have helped a friend going cold turkey while in Paris, and trust me, that is way bigger a task than it seems...You have to be monitoring that person 24/7.

Anyway, rant over...

LOL uh huh. I guess I'm lucky not to have been there, but then I think it's something I bring to the conversation.

I'm not saying put prison staff on watch as detox nurses - this is (as I understand) a life and death situation, meaning specialised staff are needed. So supply them. My previous rants about how to save money on prisoners by minimising their luxuries, as well as making them earn their keep cover the cash side of things.

I'm not sorried about their ability to save money either. My point is if they are clean they will not need to steal/sell drugs/prostitute themselves in order to find cash to pay bad bastards for drugs. They'll have money for kids, food, power and bettering their own life. whether they think like I do or not is secondary. If there is an opportunity to show someone how to live a better life, and to make the bad life more undesirable - I'm saying we take it.

The simple fact is if they are on drugs they need help off them, and if they're in prison and on drugs I want to know how that's possible. The system has failed, and those on drugs have failed. Lets fix 'em both.

[007XX]

Hard or easy don't matter. What matters is the the law says "Thou shalt NOT..." So what'ryagunado? Just figure "Oh well, we tried."

Sorry, it don't matter how normal or reasonable they are, they don't get to continue to fuck the rest of us around.

Oh c'mon...I'm not saying throw in the towel and put your head under the blanket (no dutch oven please! :whistle:), but we have to be reasonnable with the expectations, and throwing it all on prison staff is kind of dismissive and irresponsible...Prisons are the "ambulance at the bottom of the cliff" method...what happened to nipping things in the bud, eh? Stop these people before they get as bad as they are...

Let's be responsible before bad things happen...or is that too harduous a task to contemplate?

Sooo... bit like doing proper poridge then?

Its porridgeto start with...:innocent::dodge:...
and I was more thinking of guacamole myself, but Ok! whatever works for you :bleh:

[Her_C4]

Needle exchange programmes urged for prisons
By JENNY LING - The Dominion Post | Tuesday, 28 August 2007

Needle exchange programmes in prisons and counsellors in police cells are being touted as solutions to drug use in jails.

........

Perhaps they could also knit nice little needle covers so that the needles don't get dirty when not in use? I think that would be a very useful and caring thing to do.

Yes please - as long as it means I am not going to get a needle stick injury during a cell search or be menaced / attacked by an inmate with HIV or Hep then I am all for it. :doctor:

The management of the illicit trade of contraband through (over and under)the prison walls is another story altogether. :spanking:




It's a different world we law abiding folks can't even start to comprehend...:nono:

You got that right - in so many ways.... :rolleyes:

[Ocean1]

How naive .... where there is a will there is a way.

By all means lets make the prisons staff job a WHOLE lot easier. And make sure that all children are included - even babies, in terms of non-contact visits.

I strongly suspect that there would be no argument from any quarter within Prisons on any or all of these as a part measure... after all, they have been mooted for the last 20 years that I know of - (and I suspect a whole lot more).

Do you think these ideas are new?

The key I am trying to get at here, is that we can reinvent the wheel until the cows come home but unless we get some REALLY strong champions to change the legislation and address those lobbyists that care so profoundly for the inmates individual rights - regardless of their penchant for crime, drugs or other activities that push the boundaries of 'acceptable' society rules - then you are pushing shit uphill.

Yup, definitely cart before the cow. The "service" in question is called "Corrections", which aught to be a clue about where the problem is. I figure a system called "Incarcerations" is what the taxpayer probably wants. IE: Keep the fuckers away from me and mine, and don't spend too much doing it.

[007XX]

IE: Keep the fuckers away from me and mine, and don't spend too much doing it.

Exactly...so why does it never seem to happen? It's a simple enough concept, isn't it?

[Grub]

- then you are pushing shit uphill.

No argument, but then so were Einstein, Madame Currie, Da Vinci, Sir Alexander Fleming, Pasteur, Isaac Newton, Pons and Fleischmann, Duesberg, Nitse, Carthage Perpetua, J J Rowling and George de Mestral the guy who invented velcro...

Didn't stop them did it?

[ManDownUnder]

Yup, definitely cart before the cow. The "service" in question is called "Corrections", which aught to be a clue about where the problem is. I figure a system called "Incarcerations" is what the taxpayer probably wants. IE: Keep the fuckers away from me and mine, and don't spend too much doing it.

Yeah - I'm a fan of second chances, but for those wanting to stay in the crime lifestyle I need a system that keeps them out of mine.

[007XX]

No argument, but then so were Einstein, Madame Currie, Da Vinci, Sir Alexander Fleming, Pasteur, Isaac Newton, Pons and Fleischmann, Duesberg, Nitse, Carthage Perpetua, J J Rowling and George de Mestral the guy who invented velcro...

Didn't stop them did it?

These were individuals, we are asking for a complete governement to change its policies and become responsible...(Tui, anyone?)

[ManDownUnder]

Exactly...so why does it never seem to happen? It's a simple enough concept, isn't it?

The PC brigade have take the conversation too far to the left. I think we're looking a range of options for corrective help that don't seem to really work keeping people from re-offending, but they cost more.

We must be getting close to the time where we (as a society) simply say "ENOUGH".

We have the options of
a) Spending $75,000/prisoner and have a reoffending rate of 70%
or
b) Spending $30,000/prisoner and have a reoffending rate of 70%

I vote b - and put the cash saved into longer sentences, better working conditions, pay and staff numbers for essential servicesd (Police, Nursing, teachers) etc and start building society from the ground floor. Teaching people right from wrong, keeping people in good health, keeping the bad bastards off the street and making life enjoyable and more comfortable for those of us in society.

The problem is people are too scared to question the rights of prisoners. I'm not saying don't respect them, I'm saying recognise the fact they have less rights than the rest of society... and move on.

I'd love to hear the thoughts from the prison officers/police on that one.

[Grub]

These were individuals, we are asking for a complete governement to change its policies and become responsible...(Tui, anyone?)

To a point, but eventually they managed to change collective wisdom, science, governments and the way people live.

I guess this is getting a little off-topic but I've never thought that "too hard" is a valid reason for not trying.

[007XX]

The PC brigade have take the conversation too far to the left. I think we're looking a range of options for corrective help that don't seem to really work keeping people from re-offending, but they cost more.

We must be getting close to the time where we (as a society) simply say "ENOUGH".

We have the options of
a) Spending $75,000/prisoner and have a reoffending rate of 70%
or
b) Spending $30,000/prisoner and have a reoffending rate of 70%

I vote b - and put the cash saved into longer sentences, better working conditions, pay and staff numbers for essential servicesd (Police, Nursing, teachers) etc and start building society from the ground floor. Teaching people right from wrong, keeping people in good health, keeping the bad bastards off the street and making life enjoyable and more comfortable for those of us in society.

The problem is people are too scared to question the rights of prisoners. I'm not saying don't respect them, I'm saying recognise the fact they have less rights than the rest of society... and move on.

I'd love to hear the thoughts from the prison officers/police on that one.

Can you run for Prime Minister?:2thumbsup..Honnest, I'd vote for someone who thinks like that and ACTUALLY carries it out, not just says that to get the votes, then lines their pockets and just forgets about all promises made...:mad:

[Ocean1]

Exactly...so why does it never seem to happen?


unless we get some REALLY strong champions to change the legislation and address those lobbyists that care so profoundly for the inmates individual rights - regardless of their penchant for crime, drugs or other activities that push the boundaries of 'acceptable' society rules - then you are pushing shit uphill.


It's a simple enough concept, isn't it?

I'm often suspicious of "simple", but in this case I believe the solution's tactically easy. Prisons in isolated areas, one well controlled means of access. No physical contact with visitors. Shit I get worse treatment in any airport, and I pay good money for it.

The policy changes required? Ditch the lot and start again.

[007XX]

To a point, but eventually they managed to change collective wisdom, science, governments and the way people live.

I guess this is getting a little off-topic but I've never thought that "too hard" is a valid reason for not trying.

Don't get me wrong, I am not entirely cynical about trying...But I am a bit jaded as to the lack of collective action of a nation such as ours...

I would honnestly love for us to be able to say :ENOUGH, and something actually happens. But I have been hearing ramblings for so long, and nothing coming off it, that I am despairing a bit...And the individual gets treated as an undesirable rather than a clear thinker...:(

[ManDownUnder]

Can you run for Prime Minister?:2thumbsup..Honnest, I'd vote for someone who thinks like that and ACTUALLY carries it out, not just says that to get the votes, then lines their pockets and just forgets about all promises made...:mad:

I hate to say it but I'm seriously starting to think about that. I'm so annoyed with the current self serving, bickering set of Pollys... Problem is too much time away from home and family... and I really can't be arsed with politics. It's bullshit.

[007XX]

I'm often suspicious of "simple", but in this case I believe the solution's tactically easy. Prisons in isolated areas, one well controlled means of access. No physical contact with visitors. Shit I get worse treatment in any airport, and I pay good money for it.

The policy changes required? Ditch the lot and start again.

Oh, how I do like the way you think!:yes:

[Laava]

My neighbour was one of the prison guards at Club Ngawha. He was telling me about the whole corrupt way the prisons operate, quite an eye opener! CN IS run by the Black Power and my neighbour[X] reckons they do a good job, keeping order etc! Isn't that interesting? Anyway, one day when the drug and cellphone use was getting way out of hand they organised a general full cell search with extra staff bought in, unbeknownst to the inmates. X reckoned it was really interesting to see who didn't show up for work that day! So apparently these staff members are told what they will be doing and bringing in by the BP, and they have no choice. So not only are drugs rife, they are actively used to control the prison population.
Me, I'm all for zero physical contact with visitors and less privileges.
But that's just my opinion.:2guns:

[sAsLEX]

I hate to say it but I'm seriously starting to think about that. I'm so annoyed with the current self serving, bickering set of Pollys... Problem is too much time away from home and family... and I really can't be arsed with politics. It's bullshit.


“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”


See above MDU........ but I see your point.

I love it when the lefty shit heads question my serving my country... go fuck yourselves.


Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few

lest they forget that.......

[Her_C4]

The PC brigade have take the conversation too far to the left. I think we're looking a range of options for corrective help that don't seem to really work keeping people from re-offending, but they cost more.

We must be getting close to the time where we (as a society) simply say "ENOUGH".

We have the options of
a) Spending $75,000/prisoner and have a reoffending rate of 70%
or
b) Spending $30,000/prisoner and have a reoffending rate of 70%

I vote b - and put the cash saved into longer sentences, better working conditions, pay and staff numbers for essential servicesd (Police, Nursing, teachers) etc and start building society from the ground floor. Teaching people right from wrong, keeping people in good health, keeping the bad bastards off the street and making life enjoyable and more comfortable for those of us in society.

The problem is people are too scared to question the rights of prisoners. I'm not saying don't respect them, I'm saying recognise the fact they have less rights than the rest of society... and move on.

I'd love to hear the thoughts from the prison officers/police on that one.

Interesting view and one that has been around for a long while now in different sectors of our illustrious society. I would be very surprised if you didn't get support for your views from a range of different groups, including prison and police staff..

I feel it is worthy of note however that it pays to remember that a lot of us are not angels, and have had times in our lives where for whatever reason we have deliberately chosen to live a more law abiding life at some point or another rather than continue down the well trodden path of our peers and 'mates' ... (now where was that thread about the rambunctious teenager????)

For me? - I am NOT perfect, and for many inside our prison walls they are just like me - or just like I could have been but for the grace of God. Despite my previous headlong path into obliteration (from which I am long recovered) I would like to think that society would see that 'me' as someone who 'hiccuped' and was worthy supporting and helping to change and had the means to provide it. Am I the only one?

So distinguish between those that have erred / lapsed and those who need to be habilitated (for how can you rehabilitate someone who has never been habilitated in the first instance?) and then again those recidivists who never will be and (whether through nature or nurture) have become all they ever will be.

There is a LOOOOT of work being carried out inside prison walls that you are obviously not aware of - both from individual staff who are committed to make a difference, to the wider forum - to address your comments about "Teaching people right from wrong, keeping people in good health."

I don’t think that anyone is ‘too scared’ to question the rights of prisoners and I am surprised by your statement as it has come across as unnecessarily emotive. The PC brigade has done its work well if that is what you believe.

Legislation has been passed that provides for longer sentences but in my mind we do not make use of the Preventive Detention option in this country and we allow hard core recidivists to be released out into the streets to associate and influence our loved ones.

THREE STRIKES AND YOU ARE OUT seems to be a rather good and fair option to me. And hey – here is a thought - lets use the legislation that we already have to the fullest extend before we try and reinvent the wheel.

[Ocean1]

I hate to say it but I'm seriously starting to think about that. I'm so annoyed with the current self serving, bickering set of Pollys... Problem is too much time away from home and family... and I really can't be arsed with politics. It's bullshit.

Yup, it’s a fallacy that they’re there to serve “us”. They’re just the major pieces in a grubby war over resources. So rather than wasting your time and fucking up your own life to take your designated place on the board take a leaf out of the lobbyists handbook. What do we know about these dudes?: http://www.safe-nz.org.nz/


Oh, how I do like the way you think!:yes:

Only 'cos you can watch the perdy ickle gears moving.

[007XX]

THREE STRIKES AND YOU ARE OUT seems to be a rather good and fair option to me. And hey – here is a thought - lets use the legislation that we already have to the fullest extend before we try and reinvent the wheel.

And all of the above content before that...massive :niceone:! I couldn't agree more, even if I tried...*oh and yeah, must spread myself around before giving it to Her_B4 again...:o*

[007XX]

Only 'cos you can watch the perdy ickle gears moving.

Oh yeah:first:...And probably because the clunking noises from them echos in my own head! :laugh:

[ManDownUnder]

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”


See above MDU........ but I see your point.

OUCH - a good point but there's only so much one good man can do - and with respect I'm probably doing more than most (just the facts - at the risk of a public autostimulation session)

Just wish i could do more, but as I say - self serving pollies piss me off... I'll save that rant for a more appropriate thread.



... very reluctant snip...

THREE STRIKES AND YOU ARE OUT seems to be a rather good and fair option to me. And hey – here is a thought - lets use the legislation that we already have to the fullest extend before we try and reinvent the wheel.

Yes! I like the three strikes rule. I'm sure it needs defining more (i.e. does theft of a packet of gum at age 10 count as a strike?)

And there but for the grace of God goes I too. Been there, done that and a fgew know some of my stories. I'm no angel either. I was lucky enough to see where my bread was buttered and chose to learn to feed myself.

My mother's quote on my 16th birthday is typical of the support I got.
"Son - you're legally responsible now. From now on, if you end up in prison I promise to visit".

It put a lot of things in perspective for me real quick. I am accountable for my actions. And in being accountable, I am entitled to hold others accountable for those actions of theirs that affect me.

All the good work and research being done inside prison is not to be poo pood. My underlying concern is that the best system available needs to be in place. My concern is that we'll never know if it's not there... how long do we keep looking, and pouring money in - at the direct expense of the very society we're supposed to be protecting?

And being too scared to question the rights of prisoners? The PC brigade would have them dressed well, confortable, accepted and hugged 3 times a day before they go watch their TV or play with a playstation (God forbid they get bored or feel victimised). I'm a HUGE fan of restorative justice. I see no restoration happening when the bastard gets comfortably locked down and the wife of an attack victim goes on the struggle eeking out a living after their loved one was killed by the P addicted junkie.

[Her_C4]

OUCH - a good point but there's only so much one good man can do - and with respect I'm probably doing more than most (just the facts - at the risk of a public autostimulation session)

Just wish i could do more, but as I say - self serving pollies piss me off... I'll save that rant for a more appropriate thread.



Yes! I like the three strikes rule. I'm sure it needs defining more (i.e. does theft of a packet of gum at age 10 count as a strike?)

And there but for the grace of God goes I too. Been there, done that and a fgew know some of my stories. I'm no angel either. I was lucky enough to see where my bread was buttered and chose to learn to feed myself.

My mother's quote on my 16th birthday is typical of the support I got.
"Son - you're legally responsible now. From now on, if you end up in prison I promise to visit".

It put a lot of things in perspective for me real quick. I am accountable for my actions. And in being accountable, I am entitled to hold others accountable for those actions of theirs that affect me.

All the good work and research being done inside prison is not to be poo pood. My underlying concern is that the best system available needs to be in place. My concern is that we'll never know if it's not there... how long do we keep looking, and pouring money in - at the direct expense of the very society we're supposed to be protecting?

And being too scared to question the rights of prisoners? The PC brigade would have them dressed well, confortable, accepted and hugged 3 times a day before they go watch their TV or play with a playstation (God forbid they get bored or feel victimised). I'm a HUGE fan of restorative justice. I see no restoration happening when the bastard gets comfortably locked down and the wife of an attack victim goes on the struggle eeking out a living after their loved one was killed by the P addicted junkie.


I agree with sAsLEX – and there is plenty one can do if one is prepared to move from the comfy couch of apathy. Lobbyists are not all the ‘PC Brigade’ but because they are the ones that jump up and down and make the most noise and are also mostly responsible for the ‘selective’ or partial reporting of truths, then they are the ones that the NZ Public most readily identify with.

You want to make a difference? Then get the hell out there and make a noise (thats everyone not just YOU :bleh:) – the Sensible Sentencing and Restorative Justice Trusts are but two avenues available for people to add their weight (and voices) to.

PS – You are very fortunate indeed to have such a supportive parent – not everyone has / had one that would be prepared to state that in such a clear and concise manner – the point being that some people learnt the lesson of responsibility by themselves and often later than their teenage years – if at all.

[Shadows]

I know.... The fuckers should be locked up. That'll fix 'em.

[candor]

It's not about the PC brigade - just pure greed.

Who owns the methadone factory - the PMs former advisor owns about a half share.

Who else has shares - people very influential in the health sector eg Ministry of health and two eccentric Texan ornithologists!

How much profit are they making - 500% increase in exports to Oz last 5 years customs tell me, and now trying to crack the new Asian market.

How do they justify giving it to inmates - they got some studies done elsewhere that show lower mortality on the few weeks after release for addicts given methadone - as their tolerance hasn't dropped by the time they get hard out back into it.

But - this doesn't help us - it means more addicts running round killing us on the roads.

I have a parole hearing in couple weeks to attend for my Mums killer (he crossed centreline on methadone - yet again - to kill her and our dog in oncoming car).

Well because they had him on methadone inside of course when he giot early release (after serving 6 mths for Mums homicide) he of course reoffended. WHAT A TOTAL SURPRISE.

So he got recalled to jail a few weeks ago, and as is his right he has applied for home release again. Because the prison has maintained his addiction his IQ will remain lowered from the methadone, and he will reoffend yet again and WON'T THAT BE A SURPRISE.

But at least he won't OD within weeks of his release since his drug tolerance won't be lowered. Just remain a lethal weapon - how very civilised.

Methadone has replaced the option of recovery from addiction in NZ - as years ago the Govt (including the PMs right hand advisor) decided that rehabs don't work. Once an addict...

It's called greed. Biodone factory puts nice 60 year olds like my Mum and nice old men like the guy a methadonian hit in CHCH lately... in painful graves.

On the roads these people the system has given no chance to are causing havoc. It wouldn't be so bad if they just took methadone which is not so intoxicating on its own (if not injected)- the requirement of civilised foreign programs.

But here patients can't be kicked off so 70% continue with regular polydrug use. Most sell part of their dose to P freaks to help them come down or sell it to others (who die) for pin money.

Many also use P to try and get rid of the lethargy from the drug so its kinda ironic that methadone manufacturers in Oz and the U.S. are now trialing treating P addicts with methadone (as it's a less harmful addiction than P for foetuses - call it social engineering).

It's all just about greed... but the pharm companies are adept at convincing governments it's all very rational and cost effective - versus addicts (classified incurable by definition) doing bulk burgs to pay for expensive opiates.

Only thing is that (hidden away) studies show the offending doesn't drop much as they soon develop P habits to maintain. Methadone is not rehab how our system works it.

[The Pastor]

wait a minute, 30 000/prisoner? thats what i earn a year!

[Swoop]

The world has gone bloody mad.
No, it hasn't. New Zealand has gone fuc*ing mad though!
People wonder why NZ is less competitive in the world market. It is because we are tying ourselves up with bullshit paperwork and waste of time "consultation process".:angry:

Can you run for Prime Minister?:2thumbsup..Honnest,
MDU is far too open, honest and intelligent to be a politician in NZ.

[007XX]

MDU is far too open, honest and intelligent to be a politician in NZ.

yes, I know...but that kind of goes with the point I was trying to make: wouldn't it make a nice change to have someone like that running the country?

Ideallistic I hear you say? Yeah well, I've been called worse...

[pritch]

A guy I know ended a considerable stretch in recent years (don't ask!).

One day while we were talking about his recent experiences he mentioned being drug tested regularly. I told him that I was surprised to hear he was interested in drugs. He said he wasn't, neither were his mates, but they were all tested everytime there was "random" testing.

The prison authorities have a good idea who is into drugs, and who isn't, so when "random" testing the inmates they test the ones they know are *not* users.

Now you will not be surpised to see the Minister reporting on TV that our "random" testing figures indicate low drug use in the prison system...