Using the front brake...

[Matt]

I've been riding bikes for 20 years (gosh I feel old!), but only had a road bike for the last year and I'm really struggling to use the front brake enough - most of the time I'm adjusting my speed using both brakes but when it comes to an emergency (like the pratt in an Astra who pulled out on me this morning in Petone) I'm locking up the back pretty quickly - still in control but definitely not stopping as quick as I could!

I guess it comes from riding trials bikes so much (you'd go over the bars if you squeezed the front brake as hard as you need to on a road bike), but I'm half tempted to disconnect the back brake to make me use the front!

So, how do you force yourself to use the front brake? Guess it's just a case of practicing in an empty car-park? (but there's a big difference between doing it on purpose and then doing it in a panic!)

Matt

[degrom]

Practice... Go for a slow ride on the Rimataka's and concentrate on using your front brake more than your back one.

The best braking method is to use both brakes but with a 60/40 ratio with the front brakes being used 60% or more...

[MSTRS]

Yep. Practice. Then practice some more. You need to retrain your brain to use that front brake automatically.

[ManDownUnder]

Practice straight line stopping... clear piece of tarmac, straight line, squeeze on the front brake (use both...) and when you get to the point of the rear lifting off or drifting slightly from a lack of weight you know you're getting there.

Best done under an experienced eye (no insult - I recognise the 20 years expereince) but I'd hate you to try too hard and hurt yourself/ destroy valuable machinery

[Coldrider]

Put the ball of your feet on the footpegs where they should be anyway, you then have to shift your foot forward to get to the brake lever, and it is lazier then not to use it at all.

[avgas]

Run ya back tyre bald - it teaches you alot of riding skills.
(before people flame me - try it, i shit you not)
It teaches you the following:
rear wheel steering
expect the unexpected
front brake usage
mantaining a loose back under power
weight loading etc

[James Deuce]

80-90% of your maximum potential braking power is coming from the front brakes of your ER6.

Practice just using the front until you get comfortable with it.

Then add the rear in, remembering that as the weight transfer to the front increases as you slow, you'll need to let the rear off.

Blackbird posted a really good braking article I was involved in writing almost 20 years ago. It discusses breaking your braking, especially using the front, into 4 stages.

1. Initial application
2. A progressive squeeze to bring you to a halt. Normal brake use to come to a stop at an intersection for instance.
3. A harder, quicker squeeze to decrease your stopping distance in the event that someone squeezes in front of you at the head of a queue.
4. As hard as you can squeeze.

All braking should follow the progression: On, Squeeze, Squeeze harder, Jam lever against grip. It avoids yanking the brakes on and losing the front and the progression can be as quick or slow as you like.

But you need to practice.

[Coldrider]

I did a ride school run by Freddy Merkle & Brian Bernard a few years ago, we had the front wheels smoking and the rears up in the air, the back wheel cannot do much elevated and takes your concentration away from the front.

[Sparky Bills]

Go find a road where your not going to bother anybody.

Then practise braking hard. Using only the front brake, then using only the rear brake. Think about how much difference between the 2.

Then find a mark on the road. Speed up to a comfy speed, when you get to your mark start braking as hard as you can! (Using only the front brake)
You will be surprised how hard you can actually brake. Just squeeze the lever in smoothly, dont jam it on, squeeze.

Give it a go.
If you do it right, the rear will probably lift off the ground a bit. :clap:

[sAsLEX]

I have the opposite problem..... I tend to use only the front.

Stops it just fine, but learning to use the rear could help settle the bike a bit more, if I started pushing my riding a bit more......

[07fatboy]

I find on the later model bikes they have a dial setting on the front brake lever,might pay to check it out,dial settings 1-5. I've had a bit of a play on my in-laws bike you can set it so you can sqeeze as hard as you like and not lock the bike up from a set speed...Personally i like full power in the brakes and always use front brakes 90/10 compared to the rear...Practice,practice,practice this will come naturally ,Expect the unexpected at all times,Keep your eyes peeled but most of all enjoy your ride....Stay safe

[Sparky Bills]

I find on the later model bikes they have a dial setting on the front brake lever,might pay to check it out,dial settings 1-5. I've had a bit of a play on my in-laws bike you can set it so you can sqeeze as hard as you like and not lock the bike up from a set speed.

Mate.....
Thats not what that is for!!

[James Deuce]

I find on the later model bikes they have a dial setting on the front brake lever,might pay to check it out,dial settings 1-5. I've had a bit of a play on my in-laws bike you can set it so you can sqeeze as hard as you like and not lock the bike up from a set speed...Personally i like full power in the brakes and always use front brakes 90/10 compared to the rear...

Umm, that's a span adjuster. It's for adjusting how close the lever is to the grip. You know, depending on whether or not you are a Dwarf or a Giant.

[Griff]

The Rear Brake pedal is Factory Set-Up to be Horizontal to the floor. This allows you to place shit-loads of pressure on it and lock your rear wheel up, due to the amount of travel in your ankle joint.

Try adjusting the brake pedal so that it is pointing SLIGHTLY Lower than horizontal. That way it should NEVER lock up.

BUT do the adjusting in small decrements and check that your rear brake light comes on (and off) when it should.

[kevfromcoro]

Iam a bit the same.dont like using the front brake.
I have been riding for a few years..and remeber the old shitters we used to ride
.BSA ,,MATCHY.TRIUMPH, shit hitting the front brake was a diaster,
Also done a lot of offroading ,,were dont use the front brake much,,(well dont use brakes at all)
LIKE others have said in here..60% front and 40% rear.
well it does add up.still gives me the shits grabbing a right handfull
Practise more i suppose

[James Deuce]

LIKE others have said in here..60% front and 40% rear.
well it does add up.still gives me the shits grabbing a right handfull
Practise more i suppose

Nope, it's more like 80%-90% front/20%-10% rear on a modern bike, even one with a linked brake system.

If you don't master front brake use you are really limiting your options in an emergency. The key to stopping quickly is controlling the balance between weight transfer and front grip and being able to modulate brake force right on the limit. You can stop 10s of metres quicker in an emergency if you know what you are doing.

Try this in a deserted carpark early one Sunday morning.

1. Accelerate to 50 km/hr, brake at a preset point and then measure how far it takes you to stop rear brake only.

2. Accelerate to 50, then measure how far it takes you to stop front brake only (trust me, this will be a LONG way shorter than the rear by itself).

3. Accelerate to 50 and then try both. Again this will be a little bit shorter than either of the other methods.

Then work on shortening that distance. I bet you hardly make a dent in the rear brake only option distance to stop, while you improve a lot on lessening the distance from the front, and then make huge gains on using both brakes.

Remember that getting a metre off your stopping distance at 50 km/hr could mean the difference between parking your front wheel in the lap of driver that just pulled out of his driveway without looking, and you safely coming to a halt to savour the , "OMGWTFBBQ" look on the muppet's face.

Do not underestimate how important your front brake is. It is the majority of your stopping power by a huge percentage.

Oh yes, I recommend using two fingers on the front brake for adjusting your speed, and four for stopping. You have both more leverage and more sensitivity with four fingers.

[wendigo]

A more extreme measure would be to get a set of high rear sets.

What I've found with both the TL and Duke, the high rear sets make rear wheel braking require more of a conscious decision.

This is coz they make the body lean forward, hence ergonomics dictate that the most comfortable position is when the balls of the feet rest on the pegs as opposed to the bridges of the feet. Hence you have to think of moving your foot before you brake.

The other advantage is that if you're resting on the bridges of your feet, your foot will always be under the gear lever, hence changing up is a subconscious doddle.

The disadvantage of course, is that you have to think to foot brake, hence you may lose a bit of braking potential in the event of an emergency. Then again this is probably not so bad, as virtually all the braking will come through the front in a situation like this, hence the chances of locking the rear up will be reduced.


My 2c

[Matt]

Appreciate the advice :niceone: - had a good run over to Greytown yesterday with a few mates and really practiced using just the front brake over the 'takas - once I'd remembered to keep it smooth and not brake too hard/late it seemed alot better than the last time I went over there.

Also got half an hour in an empty carpark (behind the Racecourse in Trentham) on the way home - I'm still amazed how hard you can actually brake with the front and not wash out! Guess I just need to practice a few more times until it becomes second nature in an emergency :cool:

Matt

[90s]

I'm still amazed how hard you can actually brake with the front and not wash out!

Sure. In fact if you carry on looking up and forward and even lock the front there is no reason why you should go down. You will front wheel skid and this is totally recoverable as long as you don't panic / aren't canted over. Just let the brake pressure off a little.

If you search on here there's loads of threads on this, plus a link to a high-level report where they tested scientifically to get some idea of optimal braking strategy (using both a cruiser (Valkyrie) and Sport bike (Fireblade)). Emphasises again that most braking is, of course, front brake on the road, but for sport bikes this pretty much is all their braking.


Nope, it's more like 80%-90% front/20%-10% rear on a modern bike, even one with a linked brake system.

Try this in a deserted carpark early one Sunday morning.
1. Accelerate to 50 km/hr, brake at a preset point and then measure how far it takes you to stop rear brake only.
2. Accelerate to 50, then measure how far it takes you to stop front brake only (trust me, this will be a LONG way shorter than the rear by itself).
3. Accelerate to 50 and then try both. Again this will be a little bit shorter than either of the other methods.
Then work on shortening that distance. I bet you hardly make a dent in the rear brake only option distance to stop, while you improve a lot on lessening the distance from the front, and then make huge gains on using both brakes.


This is exatly the methodology used at RRRS, which I recommend for anyone, however much experience they have. And this exercise is a real eye opener.
With a little practice I reduced my initial braking from front only 2.5 cones, rear only 3 cones to a best of both brakes 1/2 cone lenght. It was so fast I almost dropped the bike in shock. And I still could have improved this.


You have both more leverage and more sensitivity with four fingers.

I am sure this is the punchline to a popular joke ...

[90s]

Oh, and could do 1/2 cone on front brake only too with a little 'faith' of course.

[F5 Dave]

I'm surprised some of you blame Trials & dirtbike past for not using the front brake. OK I've gone the other way but all that has made me do is start using the rear brake on the roadbike a bit more. Trials bike esp I use the front brake a heap, severe down hills etc, amazing the grip you have.

I'm always amazed that experienced riders get all antsy at riding courses when the plan is to practice braking from 100kph. Yet they are happy to go that speed on the open road. In the wet. I've taken courses (not for some time) & it is surprising how much improvement even 'experienced' riders make over the course of 1/2 a dozen practise runs. While you are about it practise looking up as most common bad habit is looking down at the speedo or the ground meaning any locked wheel will not be countered for (ie if you are looking ahead & up you will tend to save a skid.

[terbang]

80-90% on the front brake on most bikes except cruisers where you tend to use the rear more. Cruisers can generally stop quicker than Sport bikes because they are low and don't have the tendancey to rotate around the front axle (do a stoppie). Take a look at bike design, huge big multi pot twin disks on the front and a small single pot disk on the rear. The people who make them are sending a loud and clear message as to where your braking is to be done.

[F5 Dave]

. . . Cruisers can generally stop quicker than Sport bikes because they are low and don't have the tendancey to rotate around the front axle (do a stoppie). . . . .

I'd like to see that proven:bleh:.

Maybe to say " IF the forks were short travel with decent damping AND there was a modern 120 tyre on the front AND there was a proper set of brakes AND the weights were equivalent then. . . see above.

[terbang]

I'd like to see that proven:bleh:.

Maybe to say " IF the forks were short travel with decent damping AND there was a modern 120 tyre on the front AND there was a proper set of brakes AND the weights were equivalent then. . . see above.

There have been magazine test comparisons often made and it is, surprisingly, the cruisers that do well with the braking.

[90s]

I'd like to see that proven:bleh:.

Maybe to say " IF the forks were short travel with decent damping AND there was a modern 120 tyre on the front AND there was a proper set of brakes AND the weights were equivalent then. . . see above.

Find that article I mentioned earlier.
I was amazed that the valkyrie and the fireblade had almost the same times (from what I remember).

Reasons prob. because 100% of the blade's braking on the front as the rear lifts, but awesome front pots and weighs less than the cruiser; cruiser heavy but keeps more traction on the ground and braking effort split more between f & r (most f of course).

Overall it all seemed to even out. I was surprised too.

[sAsLEX]

There have been magazine test comparisons often made and it is, surprisingly, the cruisers that do well with the braking.

Just change it to a 0 - 100 - 0 test.... that will get the sprotbikes back up on top.... except for maybe the Rocket.....

[07fatboy]

Mate.....
Thats not what that is for!!


Umm, that's a span adjuster. It's for adjusting how close the lever is to the grip. You know, depending on whether or not you are a Dwarf or a Giant.

Weeeellllll!!!! ya learn a new thing every day eh!.Shows ya how much I know about the nu bikes(fark all).I'm glad no one come to serious harm taking that bitta advice...I rang the bro and told him thanks for letting me know about the trick no lock brake thingy he told me about:scratch::mega::ar15:...stay safe

[terbang]

Just change it to a 0 - 100 - 0 test.... that will get the sprotbikes back up on top.... except for maybe the Rocket.....

This thread is about braking.
I'm not a cruiser rider either (though they are all bikes) but have to concede that the geometry of such bikes often affords better braking. The stoppie as we know it, whilst fun and a bit of showmanship, is actually the limitation of a sportbikes braking as the CofG tries to pitch itself around the front axle..
Once again you can look to design trends to show us how front braking has evolved. There was a time when there were reasonably complex anti dive type arangements fitted to bikes that stiffened the front forks when you applied the front brake. This supposedly allowed for a more even spread of front/rear braking. My 82 GSX1100 has it, though it also has a powerful rear brake. However you will notice that modern bikes have gone away from this and tend to let the bike dive onto the front wheel during braking. They have well developed front brakes and just a token on the rear. The theory being that as the bike dives, the CofG shifts forward thus loading the front wheel more, offering better traction and naturaly more braking. This is done with the tolerance and, in some cases, advantage that the bikes steering will sharpen as well. The limitation to this configuration is, as mentioned before, the stoppie.

[Krusti]

Then.................take up adventure riding and you really have to start thinking. Seal, front brake. Gravel, rear brake.

One of the reasons I love mixed road surfaces. Keeps your mind working. :niceone:

[terbang]

My Cagiva 1000 is the Navigator which they class as an "all road bike". I too have been giving my rear brake a hiding lately.

[sAsLEX]

This thread is about braking.
I'm not a cruiser rider either (though they are all bikes) but have to concede that the geometry of such bikes often affords better braking. The stoppie as we know it, whilst fun and a bit of showmanship, is actually the limitation of a sportbikes braking as the CofG tries to pitch itself around the front axle..
Once again you can look to design trends to show us how front braking has evolved. There was a time when there were reasonably complex anti dive type arangements fitted to bikes that stiffened the front forks when you applied the front brake. This supposedly allowed for a more even spread of front/rear braking. My 82 GSX1100 has it, though it also has a powerful rear brake. However you will notice that modern bikes have gone away from this and tend to let the bike dive onto the front wheel during braking. They have well developed front brakes and just a token on the rear. The theory being that as the bike dives, the CofG shifts forward thus loading the front wheel more, offering better traction and naturaly more braking. This is done with the tolerance and, in some cases, advantage that the bikes steering will sharpen as well. The limitation to this configuration is, as mentioned before, the stoppie.

The BWMs etc still use there telelever front end which is meant to stop brake dive is it not?


The idea is sound, but I think most struggle to get it to work right, they reckon the Brittian would of been soo much better with a set of Ohlins forks in it rather than its unique front end...... but then it wouldn't of been a Brittian would it!?

[Blackbird]

If you search on here there's loads of threads on this, plus a link to a high-level report where they tested scientifically to get some idea of optimal braking strategy (using both a cruiser (Valkyrie) and Sport bike (Fireblade)). Emphasises again that most braking is, of course, front brake on the road, but for sport bikes this pretty much is all their braking.

I presume you're referring to the attachment.

Cheers

Geoff

[F5 Dave]

Well cover me in honey & throw me to the lesbians. Most Cruisers I've seen have had pathetic brakes & skinny front tyres designed in the 80s that lock & push + forks that are so soft they bottom locking the front wheel (GN250s were good at this trick back when I used to help instructing this didn't help the learner riders stop safely). Antidive braking was a nice theory if we never encountered any bumps. Obviously we do & it makes the whole situation worse, although Telelever/Hossack/Hub systems sidestep this in another manner but not really in this thread's scope.

Am well aware of the rotate issue. My race bikes are based on early RS125s that were made for midgets. I've raised the seat ~ 50mm so I could ride it, but it does make for stoppies into hairpins. But I'd still be fairly confident lining up against someone on an average cruiser, say a Hardley or a Virago.

Can't remember if it was Twist of the Wrist or Kevin Camerons book where someone was saying a racer really needs 4 bikes, one for braking where weight is moved back and low, one for turning in, one for cornering & one for accelerating.

[Matt]

I'm surprised some of you blame Trials & dirtbike past for not using the front brake. OK I've gone the other way but all that has made me do is start using the rear brake on the roadbike a bit more. Trials bike esp I use the front brake a heap, severe down hills etc, amazing the grip you have.

Have you ever ridden a JCM SR though?! makes the head angle on a Buell look like a cruiser! Think it's also a speed thing, I'm usually going quite a bit faster on the roadbike (and sat down, which still feels wierd!).

Great advice though guys, I just need to put it into practice :)

[cbr guy]

i remember going from road to dirt bikes using the front brake, ouch lol, after time you should just click and it will be natural, i guess. im a bloody noob though! good luck anyway

[90s]

I presume you're referring to the attachment.

Cheers

Geoff

That's the bunny - thanks.
I think I remembered it all correctly.

As a study its major flaw is that in an attempt to homogenise the testing by fitting the bikes with stabilisers they undermined a major factor in braking - that bikes are not stabilised.

This shows itself in the 'clutch in' result, which gives best times. However, in real life the lack of control 'clutch in' creates is more of a problem and - contraversial advice here - is probably best avioded.

[Chrislost]

i find the back brake helps stop the back from sliding side to side when braking into a corner.
i also find it useful when the front wheel is above the ground.