Run for your lives! Here come the vegans.

[Hitcher]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4185210a20475.html

As if the Gummint hasn't got enough to worry about with regulating the weather, people's pets, giving gold plastic cards to pensioners and providing perks for those with kids, now they're after my dinner.

Soon it will be illegal to eat meat, non-organic vegetables and anything that isn't grown within 5km of your dung-fuelled stove. Fast foods will be banned, as will anything that contains animal fat or any other material derived from a sentient being.

"Obesity epidemic" my arse. It's not a disease. A propensity to being overweight may be heritable. But guess what? It's nothing that eating less and exercising more won't ameliorate.

What's next. Compulsory calisthenics at day-break, with everybody wearing matching gym gear, giving all hail to our Dear Leader? Food stamps issued on BMI? Compulsory health warnings and punitive taxes applied to non-sanctioned products?

Tuck into those steaks while ye may, for the tofu surely cometh.

[Ocean1]

And they wonder why I’ve got a problem with authority.

If the great unwashed aren’t behaving in a manner we approve of it must be because they’re stupid. Best we educate ‘em eh? I mean, god save we should ever be drawn to conclude that they might actually have a right to make such choices all by themselves. Thin end of the wedge ‘an all that, next they’d start to wonder if they need our guidance a’tall a’tall.

[Steam]

Quit your bloody whining. "Your lot" will soon have their chance to fuck it all up in their own special right-wing way.
Think hospital waiting lists will be any shorter under a National government? Oh really?
Think harsher jail-terms are the solution to crime? Aha.
Think New Zealand won't follow Australia and US foreign policy like a stupid puppy? Okaaay.
Think the rich won't get richer and the poor get poorer? Pfft!
Think they have any better idea on how to tackle domestic violence, infanticide, etc etc?

I saw some stencil art in central Wellington, and it sounds like a good choice as the motto of the soon-to-be national government;
"I'm John Key. I'm rich and you're poor so shut the fuck up."

[Jantar]

I don't see what the problem is. I am a vegetarian in that the only animals I eat are ones that only eat grass.

(except for chickens that eat whatever we have left over; oh and fish... we can't be sure waht they eat; and.....)

On second thoughts, maybe I'm not a vegetarian. But I do sometimes have vegetable with my meat. :sweatdrop

[James Deuce]

Quit your bloody whining. "Your lot" will soon have their chance to fuck it all up in their own special right-wing way.
Think hospital waiting lists will be any shorter under a National government? Oh really?
Think harsher jail-terms are the solution to crime? Aha.
Think New Zealand won't follow Australia and US foreign policy like a stupid puppy? Okaaay.
Think the rich won't get richer and the poor get poorer? Pfft!
Think they have any better idea on how to tackle domestic violence, infanticide, etc etc?

I saw some stencil art in central Wellington, and it sounds like a good choice as the motto of the soon-to-be national government;
"I'm John Key. I'm rich and you're poor so shut the fuck up."

I require the help of our Central Government. I make no bones about it. They can't and won't. Don't give me the great lefty lecture. It matters not who is in "power", ordinary people with ordinary needs will not get anything except an ever expanding tax burden.

Now back to the point.

What I eat, or my kids eat is my decision. No one else's. They already get 54% of my income. Yes I know what the income tax says it is supposed to be.

The easiest way to fix the obesity epidemic is to stop the ranting, feminist, vegetarian scaremongers who BELIEVE (Hallelujah Sister!) that every man is a pedophile and a rapist, from insisting that it is unsafe for kids to walk to school and play in a bush reserve with their mates and go to the park or school for a bit of bullrush.

Compulsion is never an answer for anything.

[Ocean1]

But I do sometimes have vegetable with my meat. :sweatdrop

A vestage of Vegemite on your deep fried double cheese meat lovers pizza does not a vegetarian make dude, as you well know.

[Karma]

Hmm... it's a tough one...

On one hand, I like eating what I like and don't wanna be told what to do...

On the other hand, if it'd turn a lot of fat chicks into thin chicks... well that's all good by me.

[Ocean1]

They already get 54% of my income. Yes I know what the income tax says it is supposed to be.

You lucky lucky bastard. :dodge:

Anyone happen to know what the best-guess current total tax take is as a % of GNP? (I say "best guess" because I suspect there's a couple of minor contributions other than mine).

[Drum]

Have you discovered a new tax bracket J2?

I thought 39% was bad enough!

[James Deuce]

Sit down and figure it out one day.

GST

Fuel tax

Sundry fees for Education, and so on and so on.

[Ocean1]

Have you discovered a new tax bracket J2?

I thought 39% was bad enough!

Add GST, fuel sercharges, ACC, and the hundred other under-the-counter taxes and I think a fair few would be looking at 54% and more.

[Jantar]

Have you discovered a new tax bracket J2?

I thought 39% was bad enough!

39% of gross for paye plus 1.5% of gross for ACC leaves you with 59.5% of gross.

Then take off 12.5% of the nett for GST leaves you with 52% of gross. Now take off government levies for acc on vehicles, licence fees, etc, and depending on where you live the rates can be anywhere from 3% - 6% of your gross income.

If Jim2 is left with 46% he is about average.

I'm lucky: Because of where I live I only pay 52% in tax.

[Drum]

Are you telling me to sit down?

You've got a bit of a chip on your shoulder haven't you.

Edit: Maybe, in my scotch riddled state I didn't put 2 and 2 together - but do you have to talk down to people all the time? It gets quite tiresome.

[Magua]

Is this really the government's business? Surely it should be down to personal choice if you eat like a pig and end up the size of one. Thinking of the bigger picture, fat people = unhealthy people, a further burden on the tax payer?

Traffic light labelling sounds good, though a little simplistic.

[James Deuce]

Are you telling me to sit down?

You've got a bit of a chip on your shoulder haven't you.

Edit: Maybe, in my scotch riddled state I didn't put 2 and 2 together - but do you have to talk down to people all the time? It gets quite tiresome.

I'm gobsmacked. I wasn't intending to be patronising.

Yes I do have a chip on my shoulder. I can't get a single fucking thing right.

[Drum]

I'm gobsmacked. I wasn't intending to be patronising.

Yes I do have a chip on my shoulder. I can't get a single fucking thing right.

In which case I apologise. Text is not the best medium for expressing tone.

[Karma]

Yes I do have a chip on my shoulder. I can't get a single fucking thing right.


Well you've managed to get that chip on shoulder routine down well... that's one thing at least.

[MisterD]

Tuck into those steaks while ye may, for the tofu surely cometh.

What was it Charlie Heston said about cold, dead hands? Same goes for my bacon & brown sauce butties...

It's about time Home Economics went back on the curriculum, what is the point in making maori compulsory if kids can't even cook a meal from real ingredients?

[ManDownUnder]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4185210a20475.html
....
What's next. Compulsory calisthenics at day-break...?

I'm pleasantly surprised Pete Hodgson has time to do this AND accuse John Key of the various bits and pieces he may or may not have been personally involved with.

As for the exercise at daybreak comment, that's already partly in place. Schools are now tasked with exercise and dietary controls (my little boy does "Jump Jam" as part of his morning schooling). Apparently Parliaments looking to place learning responsibilities into CYPS' control... (p/t)

[Grahameeboy]

I am lucky, I don't like politics and don't eat steaks...........life is wonderfull.

[Grahameeboy]

I'm pleasantly surprised Pete Hodgson has time to do this AND accuse John Key of the various bits and pieces he may or may not have been personally involved with.

As for the exercise at daybreak comment, that's already partly in place. Schools are now tasked with exercise and dietary controls (my little boy does "Jump Jam" as part of his morning schooling). Apparently Parliaments looking to place learning responsibilities into CYPS' control... (p/t)

Pete is my mate, he has no idea about health and I am still 2-0 up against him at the moment.............

[Grahameeboy]

Well you've managed to get that chip on shoulder routine down well... that's one thing at least.

He likes tomato ketchup with his chip too.....

[Grahameeboy]

Actually do you guys know what a vegan is??

[Skyryder]

Actually do you guys know what a vegan is??



Yes I do. And considering the amount of money that is going into the dairy industry veganism would be the last lifestyle this government would be advocating.

As for all the scaremongering...................all the government is proposing is giving information on healthy food. Red light Green light. No ones 'forcing you to buy it. .............so what's the fucking problem.


Skyryder

[Grahameeboy]

Yes I do. And considering the amount of money that is going into the dairy industry veganism would be the last lifestyle this government would be advocating.

As for all the scaremongering...................all the government is proposing is giving information on healthy food. Red light Green light. No ones 'forcing you to buy it. .............so what's the fucking problem.


Skyryder

Remember a true Vegan will not wear anything produced from a dead animal, leather shoe etc. Otherwise they are not a true vegan. A lot of people claim to be vegan and often it is a fashion statement....

I agree that as usual the knee tremblers are out thinking the Govt is taking away their rights. We take away our own rights too often eh?

[Skyryder]

Remember a true Vegan will not wear anything produced from a dead animal, leather shoe etc. Otherwise they are not a true vegan. A lot of people claim to be vegan and often it is a fashion statement....

I agree that as usual the knee tremblers are out thinking the Govt is taking away their rights. We take away our own rights too often eh?


Vegan is a food thing. It is not as you say to do with clothing. There are many vegans who do not use animal products in apparel but those vegans who do are no less a vegan by doing so.

Skyryder

[Grahameeboy]

Vegan is a food thing. It is not as you say to do with clothing. There are many vegans who do not use animal products in apparel but those vegans who do are no less a vegan by doing so.

Skyryder

Sorry have to politely disagree.............Kiwi's think being a vegeterian means they can eat fish................

Definition - vegan:
strict vegetarian: using no animal products, dairy or eggs; animal derived products (leather, silk, etc.) not used.

[MSTRS]

Definition - vegan:
strict vegetarian: using no animal products, dairy or eggs; animal derived products (leather, silk, etc.) not used.

You are correct....(this time);)

[McJim]

Sorry have to politely disagree.............Kiwi's think being a vegeterian means they can eat fish................

Definition - vegan:
strict vegetarian: using no animal products, dairy or eggs; animal derived products (leather, silk, etc.) not used.

So....not just a dyslexic Vogon then?
I'm surprised they're not going for the same kind of 'Social Outcast' tactics they used on smokers.
No eating in public places - fatty foods taxed heavily - pictures of obese people on fatty food packaging. Discrimination against fat people on public transport (since smokers were heavily discriminated against in so many areas ti's obviously acceptable to use discrimination innit?)

[Skyryder]

Sorry have to politely disagree.............Kiwi's think being a vegeterian means they can eat fish................

Definition - vegan:
strict vegetarian: using no animal products, dairy or eggs; animal derived products (leather, silk, etc.) not used.


The kiwi vegetarians that I know certainly do not believe that they can eat fish.

Vegetarians and vegans are both food choices. Vegetarians do not eat flesh.

Vegans do not eat any animal product whatsoever. I will admit that today there is a belief that Vegans do not use any product whatsoever that is a derivitive an an animal process. Leather silk etc. This lifestyle is now associated with vegans. 'Bout as close as I can come to an agreement.:calm:

Skyryder

[Laava]

Oh.....I like where this is all going.....:jerry:

A friend of mine who was a vegetarian, explained what extra lengths he had to go to just because they gave up eating meat. No big deal really but then he explained how much more difficult it would be to be vegan, mainly just to get the huge protein intake that we humans need. Esp if you are a hardworking male, ie tradesperson. Way I understand it, if you're allergic to nuts, you're fucked!
Oh and then said friends pregnant wife, vegetarian of some years, asked me to go to the gasser and get her some bacon to satisfy her cravings! She ate it straight from the packet like a ravenous wolf and they have never looked back!

[McJim]

Way I understand it, if you're allergic to nuts, you're fucked!

There's always lentils. But they make you fart.

I've made a food choice - I will only eat the meat of Vegitarian animals.

[Grahameeboy]

The kiwi vegetarians that I know certainly do not believe that they can eat fish.

Vegetarians and vegans are both food choices. Vegetarians do not eat flesh.

Vegans do not eat any animal product whatsoever. I will admit that today there is a belief that Vegans do not use any product whatsoever that is a derivitive an an animal process. Leather silk etc. This lifestyle is now associated with vegans. 'Bout as close as I can come to an agreement.:calm:

Skyryder

Okay.....Vegans tend to start for moral issues and for some vegeterians it is too. In other words they start by deciding that it is wrong to kill animals for our consumption.

I was a vegeterian for 15 years for health reasons. Started eating chicken when ex was pregnant but have not intentionally eaten red meat or lamb for 20 years.....sometimes my friends forget so I don't impose my taste on them and eat to be polite.

[Skyryder]

There's always lentils. But they make you fart.

I've made a food choice - I will only eat the meat of Vegitarian animals.

Guess that make you a vegetarian once removed.:bash:

Skyryder

[Grahameeboy]

You are correct....(this time);)

Bling bling bling bling :hug:

[MSTRS]

The kiwi vegetarians that I know certainly do not believe that they can eat fish.

Vegetarians and vegans are both food choices. Vegetarians do not eat flesh.

Vegans do not eat any animal product whatsoever. I will admit that today there is a belief that Vegans do not use any product whatsoever that is a derivitive an an animal process. Leather silk etc. This lifestyle is now associated with vegans. 'Bout as close as I can come to an agreement.:calm:

Skyryder

Vegetarians do not eat meat. (apart from fish, in some cases). Byproducts (eg. leather, eggs, dairy) are fine.
Vegans will have nothing to do with any part or byproduct of an animal. (I wonder what sort of glues they will use, since so many are created from the likes of horse hooves etc)

[Mr Merde]

If its so wrong to eat animals then why are they made of meat?

[jrandom]

Ho hum.

Personally, I feel privileged to live in a society where obesity has become an 'epidemic'. It's a rare blip on the chart after thousands of years of misery, starvation and rampant infant mortality.

Bring on the motherfucking cheeseburgers and shiraz, I say. Bring 'em on!

And could we please stop electing idiots and then whinging about them?

[Aitch]

I require the help of our Central Government. I make no bones about it. They can't and won't. Don't give me the great lefty lecture. It matters not who is in "power", ordinary people with ordinary needs will not get anything except an ever expanding tax burden.

Now back to the point.

What I eat, or my kids eat is my decision. No one else's. They already get 54% of my income. Yes I know what the income tax says it is supposed to be.

The easiest way to fix the obesity epidemic is to stop the ranting, feminist, vegetarian scaremongers who BELIEVE (Hallelujah Sister!) that every man is a pedophile and a rapist, from insisting that it is unsafe for kids to walk to school and play in a bush reserve with their mates and go to the park or school for a bit of bullrush.

Compulsion is never an answer for anything.

This lot in power (for now) cannot stand the fact that grownups (and some kids) can actually think for themselves, and,even worse, sometimes make good decisions without Aunty Helen and all the other aunties telling us what to think!!!!!

[Mr Merde]

From reading a lot of books, watching a lot of documentarys etc

I understand that the emergence of our species coincided with the development of our brain and all the higher functions that came from that development.

I also understand that the consumption of large amounts of red meat can be directed linked to this growth and development of the brain.

Could this movement towards not eating meat be some sort of longing for a simpler less complicated way of life where one doesnt have to think, be responsible for ones actions. Could this be a yearning for regression rather than progression.
?

My major objection to the food we eat today is the simple fact that it is not what our bodies were designed to exist upon.

As a species we have been on this earth for about 3 million years. Only in the last 500 have we had food production on a scale leading up to what we have today.

Our foods are mass produced facimilies of what almost 3 million years of evolution has decided is best for us.

We are hunter gatherers by selective breeding although so called progressive people would love to argue this point and denythat basic urge in our very nature.

Personall I prefer to eat wild food or what is fashionably coined "organic" food where ever possible as i see it as more in tune with the nature of my body and its needs.

I have listened to the arguments that it is wrong to kill animals for food. What a lot of crap. Animals kill and eat animals, are we any better than them? We have developed higher brain function and therefore can moralise about the fact that we do have to kill to survive, this is what marks us as different from other animals.

We all have the same basic need to survive and pass on our genes as every living thing on this planet. if it takes the fact that to do so it is at the expense of another species then so be it.

Its all very well to pontificate, to expouse your theories, to preach but when it comes down to it the survival instinct is very strong in all of us. How many of these vegans or vegitarians would rather die by starvation rather than make use of any means of survival, including the consumption of animal products. Very few I would guess.

As part of my army training we were given a pet chicken to look after. We fed it, looked after it, kept it well and healthy and when the time came we killed it and ate it. Survival is the name of the game.

A person can choose not to partake of animal products but if everyone followed in their example we would soon be extinct as a species.

Would you turn down the services of a plumber, a doctor, a bikre mechanic because he/she ate meat or used animal products. i doubt it very much.

Hypocracy is very blind.


Merde

[Magua]

I have listened to the arguments that it is wrong to kill animals for food. What a lot of crap. Animals kill and eat animals, are we any better than them? We have developed higher brain function and therefore can moralise about the fact that we do have to kill to survive, this is what marks us as different from other animals.

We all have the same basic need to survive and pass on our genes as every living thing on this planet. if it takes the fact that to do so it is at the expense of another species then so be it.

Moralise that fact that we have to kill to survive? What are your morals for eating red meat? Do we actually need to kill to survive? (I'm not a vegetarian btw).

[Skyryder]

Okay.....Vegans tend to start for moral issues and for some vegeterians it is too. In other words they start by deciding that it is wrong to kill animals for our consumption.

I was a vegeterian for 15 years for health reasons. Started eating chicken when ex was pregnant but have not intentionally eaten red meat or lamb for 20 years.....sometimes my friends forget so I don't impose my taste on them and eat to be polite.

At last someone who knows what they are about. It is precisely becasue of the moral issues that some vegans do not use animal products in their clothing. However a vegan and the original meaning of the word was associated with food, not clothing or anything else.

Skyryder.

[Skyryder]

Vegetarians do not eat meat. (apart from fish, in some cases). Byproducts (eg. leather, eggs, dairy) are fine.
Vegans will have nothing to do with any part or byproduct of an animal. (I wonder what sort of glues they will use, since so many are created from the likes of horse hooves etc)

There is a misunderstanding that vegetarians can eat fish. This is not true. The misunderstanding arose because some people get confused between meat and fish. They assume that because vegetarians do not eat meat then they can eat fish. Both are flesh. You can not be a vegetarian if you eat animal flesh. Period. There are no in-betweens on this.

Skyryder

[The Pastor]

actually the new system has a few very good points. It would be a good way of finding out on what is healthy - so much "healty food" is really bad for you, but you don't know because its 99% fat free and "5 essentail vitams etc etc.

cuts through the advertising bs. You can still buy what ever you like, just now you know if its bad for you or good.

The food industy hates it because you will see how bad items really are for you.

[MSTRS]

So a 'vegetarian' who chooses to eat fish is just 'playing at it'. I didn't define the terms. There are those that choose not to eat meat (mammalian) because they do not like the texture/flavour, but fish is OK by them. They still call themselves vegetarian.

[MSTRS]

... It would be a good way of finding out on what is healthy ....

Says who? It's not so long since the anti-fat brigade were telling us not to eat eggs, butter, potatoes etc 'because they are fattening' HA!!

[The Pastor]

i ment on pagaked foods with all the "good for you" adverts etc.

[Skyryder]

So a 'vegetarian' who chooses to eat fish is just 'playing at it'. I didn't define the terms. There are those that choose not to eat meat (mammalian) because they do not like the texture/flavour, but fish is OK by them. They still call themselves vegetarian.


Well they can call themselves what they like but as I said they are not vegetarians. They just don't eat meat.

It's a bit like people who go on a fast and take sugared water to reduce the headaches. They believe that they are fasting but they are not.

Skyryder

[Grahameeboy]

So a 'vegetarian' who chooses to eat fish is just 'playing at it'. I didn't define the terms. There are those that choose not to eat meat (mammalian) because they do not like the texture/flavour, but fish is OK by them. They still call themselves vegetarian.

They are called a Pescaterian

[Grahameeboy]

At last someone who knows what they are about. It is precisely becasue of the moral issues that some vegans do not use animal products in their clothing. However a vegan and the original meaning of the word was associated with food, not clothing or anything else.

Skyryder.

Okay, like an Arsenal v Man Utd game..... 1 - 1

[Skyryder]

Okay, like an Arsenal v Man Utd game..... 1 - 1

Spooky. There are times when I really do question de ju vue and the mental telepathy thing. I'm an Gunners fan from way back. Like I said of all the UK football teams you pick my one............spooky.


Skyryder

[ManDownUnder]

Actually do you guys know what a vegan is??

A vegetarian with the tar kicked out of them?

... sorry - as you were...

[The Pastor]

I thought a vegan was somone who said they don't eat or use animal products but in reality they do.

"its ok if i don't buy it"

MESSED!

[Hitcher]

They are called a Pescaterian

And people who drink bubbly wines are methodeists? Frothy coffee drinkers are, perhaps, latte-day saints?

Anyway, the point of this thread was supposed to be about the endless march of the thought police who seem hell-bent to make the world conform to their joy-less norms, communism of the soul, where life's pleasures are deemed evil and to be eradicated, less anybody derive pleasure from them. If a bunch of frigid bitches in positions of political influence have forgotten how to cook food and enjoy life, then why should the rest of us be forced to eat raw vegetables and wear organic hemp underwear hand-knitted by unionised labour?

[Flatcap]

I saw some stencil art in central Wellington, and it sounds like a good choice as the motto of the soon-to-be national government;
"I'm John Key. I'm rich and you're poor so shut the fuck up."

Sounds perfect to me, although I would suggest "...you're poor and stupid..." as that is a more accurate discription of the average voter.

The sooner we get rid of the communists the better

[Mr. Peanut]

I don't mind, the government knows what's best for me! :doctor:

[Flatcap]

As for Vegetarians - will you please just shut the hell up while I am trying to enjoy my feed of offal


Mmmmm, kidneys....

[Skyryder]

wear organic hemp underwear hand-knitted by unionised labour?

My knickers are crotcheted silk. Pure white and very airy. Misted with Intoxication/D'orsay.

[MSTRS]

My knickers are crotcheted silk. Pure white and very airy. Misted with Intoxication/D'orsay.

Stop it! My eyes are doing odd things....

[Ocean1]

Ho hum.

Personally, I feel privileged to live in a society where obesity has become an 'epidemic'. It's a rare blip on the chart after thousands of years of misery, starvation and rampant infant mortality.

Amen, we don't know how lucky we are Mate...:shifty: "Oh we don't know how lucky we are..." :laugh:


And could we please stop electing idiots and then whinging about them?

You first.





"We don't know how propicious are the circumstances..." :whistle:

[Ocean1]

And people who drink bubbly wines are methodeists? Frothy coffee drinkers are, perhaps, latte-day saints?


Oh that's damn good, bit sick-making but good.

[Ocean1]

My knickers are crotcheted silk. Pure white and very airy. Misted with Intoxication/D'orsay.

:Oi: Stay on topic, are thay or are they not edible?

[Swoop]

Soon it will be illegal to eat meat, non-organic vegetables and anything that isn't grown within 5km of your dung-fuelled stove. Fast foods will be banned, as will anything that contains animal fat or any other material derived from a sentient being.
Tuck into those steaks while ye may, for the tofu surely cometh.
I am rather concerned with the hippys. If a dope smoker in the South orders/purchases his/her weed from a grower in the North... Have they considered the "carbon footprint" of the transportation required to get their weed to them!!! I seriously doubt it!

There's always lentils. But they make you fart.
Why do vegitarians' farts smell so bad?? If the gubbinment is worried about cows farting and causing the ozone layer to implode, why not deal with the REAL problem...

I've made a food choice - I will only eat the meat of Vegitarian animals.
Possibly the solution right here. If I were a cannibal, would the eating of a vegitarian be classed as kosher? Hey, he/she has only grazed on herbacious materials!
As one cannibal said to the other, whilst eating a clown, "does this taste funny to you"?

[Skyryder]

:Oi: Stay on topic, are thay or are they not edible?

You will never get to munch on the goodies down that way.

[sunhuntin]

im a vegetarian, and yes, i do eat small amounts of fish. i was full vege from the ages of 17 through to 21. i did it due to reading several articles put out by safe [safe.org i think] i cant recall why i went back to eating fish, since it was my least favourite meat as a kid.

when i was flatting, the day before i moved out, i was told i wasnt a true vege cos i wear leather. vegans dont wear leather. had i been more on the ball she would have been told she wasnt a true christian due to having a child out of wedlock. plus, all my leather is second hand, so im not supporting the industry at all.
that taught me that what i believe is fine. i dont give a rats what ideals others would have me fit into, cos that is my business, not anyone elses.

i could say that people who only ride on sunny sundays are not true bikers, but i wont cos who am i to say what makes someone true?

[davereid]

Most vegetarians that I have met have chosen it as a "healthy" choice, to help control weight etc. Not sure it's true, I have met plenty of fat vegetarians, and I have a paddock full of fat lambs and cattle. Certainly seems a hard way to be hungary!

[Skyryder]

im a vegetarian, and yes, i do eat small amounts of fish. i was full vege from the ages of 17 through to 21. i did it due to reading several articles put out by safe [safe.org i think] i cant recall why i went back to eating fish, since it was my least favourite meat as a kid.

when i was flatting, the day before i moved out, i was told i wasnt a true vege cos i wear leather. vegans dont wear leather. had i been more on the ball she would have been told she wasnt a true christian due to having a child out of wedlock. plus, all my leather is second hand, so im not supporting the industry at all.
that taught me that what i believe is fine. i dont give a rats what ideals others would have me fit into, cos that is my business, not anyone elses.

i could say that people who only ride on sunny sundays are not true bikers, but i wont cos who am i to say what makes someone true?

You seem to be confused as to what constitutes a vegetarian. One is or one is not and that is defined on one single issue of food. In saying this I should add that vegetarianism is not about ideals or a philosophy although many become vegetarians because of their own ‘personal’ ideals and philosophy. It’s what you put in your mouth. I hope that this difference is understood. The eating or not eating of flesh. There are no half measures in this. Those who criticise vegetarians or for that matter vegans on the basis of what they wear have no knowledge of the subject, and I suspect that you have been hurt by your ex flat mates comments. But I digress. You imply that there is a difference between ‘full’ and ‘true’ vegetarian and a ‘vegetarian’ as you call yourself. As an analogy to reinforce the use of full and true as a prefix you use the word ‘true biker’ and make the same mistake of defining the word true as a prefix where there should be none. By adding a prefix you alter the meaning of both biker and vegetarian to one of you own interpretation. One is a biker or one is not. It has nothing to do with being a ‘true biker’ by how often that you ride. The same applies to vegetarian. It is not about being true or full. Both these words as a prefix have no value other than allow you to define your own interpretation of how you see yourself. A vegetarian is a person who abstains from animal flesh as against animal products of dairy, eggs etc. I know people who also call themselves vegetarians solely on the basis that they do not eat red meat. They eat chicken and fish. Are they vegetarians?

I could call my self an astronught but that does not make me one.

sKYYRDER

[sunhuntin]

You seem to be confused as to what constitutes a vegetarian. One is or one is not and that is defined on one single issue of food. In saying this I should add that vegetarianism is not about ideals or a philosophy although many become vegetarians because of their own ‘personal’ ideals and philosophy. It’s what you put in your mouth. I hope that this difference is understood. The eating or not eating of flesh. There are no half measures in this. Those who criticise vegetarians or for that matter vegans on the basis of what they wear have no knowledge of the subject, and I suspect that you have been hurt by your ex flat mates comments. But I digress. You imply that there is a difference between ‘full’ and ‘true’ vegetarian and a ‘vegetarian’ as you call yourself. As an analogy to reinforce the use of full and true as a prefix you use the word ‘true biker’ and make the same mistake of defining the word true as a prefix where there should be none. By adding a prefix you alter the meaning of both biker and vegetarian to one of you own interpretation. One is a biker or one is not. It has nothing to do with being a ‘true biker’ by how often that you ride. The same applies to vegetarian. It is not about being true or full. Both these words as a prefix have no value other than allow you to define your own interpretation of how you see yourself. A vegetarian is a person who abstains from animal flesh as against animal products of dairy, eggs etc. I know people who also call themselves vegetarians solely on the basis that they do not eat red meat. They eat chicken and fish. Are they vegetarians?

I could call my self an astronaut but that does not make me one.

sKYYRDER


a vegetarian abstains from animal flesh. a VEGAN abstains from animal by products like egges etc. and yes, those people you know are vegetarians because that is how they describe themselves. honestly, sky, what you think doesnt really bother me. i am what i am, and you cant change that.

[Skyryder]

a vegetarian abstains from animal flesh. a VEGAN abstains from animal by products like egges etc. and yes, those people you know are vegetarians because that is how they describe themselves. honestly, sky, what you think doesnt really bother me. i am what i am, and you cant change that.

Obvously it has otherwise you would not have responded to my post. Well I tried to give the corrct meaning of the word, but in your books a pedaphile is not a pedaphile until he call himself one.

Now don't go throwing the Tui's at me..............yea right.

Skyryder

[jazbug5]

Sorry Sunhuntin'- but you are not a vegetarian. You eat flesh. If you must give yourself a label, then the correct one to apply is 'pescetarian'.

I personally don't care what other people choose to eat, the whole subject bores the hell out of me- but I do get fed up of being told by restaurants that the only 'vegetarian option' they have is fish- and after all, all the 'vegetarians' they know eat them!

As for the lazy stereotypes- no, I do not own a hessian skirt or weave mung beans into baskets. Did you know that Hitler was a vegetarian, by the way?
Heil Mung Bean!


PS Re the original post- seems a bit of a leap from a simple labelling improvement to help people make an informed choice, to troops of limp, anaemic vegenazis forcing innocent citizens to consume tofu under menaces.

[jrandom]

... seems a bit of a leap from a simple labelling improvement to help people make an informed choice, to troops of limp, anaemic vegenazis forcing innocent citizens to consume tofu under menaces.

Hitcher is all about the leaps.


the whole subject bores the hell out of me

Are you implying that the hell within you is now completely excised, or just slightly reduced?

[McJim]

As for the lazy stereotypes- no, I do not own a hessian skirt or weave mung beans into baskets. Did you know that Hitler was a vegetarian, by the way?
Heil Mung Bean!


Aaaargh! the curse of the Mung Bean! Is your name Gillian McKeith?

Sheesh - the number of burgers I had to buy to get my wife to stop reading that wummin's books! :rofl:

[merv]

My daughter is a full blown vegan and she is due home Friday for the weekend. While one can perhaps admire her commitment to the cause what is always interesting is pop on down to Porirua New World with her and fill the trolley with the stuff she wants and we have a $400 trolley compared to about $200 - $275 if me and mrs merv just fill it with the stuff we normally want (trolley filled with about the same volume). So the commitment is an expensive business compared to the usual cheap anything goes food that you get fat on of course.

[u4ea]

I am going to assume all the green labeled foods will double in price as all the real good food(organic etc) is already way out of my buget anyway!!!!:weep:

I cant afford takeaways ,they are a treat not a staple .:whistle:
The local NZ garlic growers can't import decent seed :mad:so the imported chinese garlic is flooding the market.Bannanas aren't being grown in the same capacity(even though I have them growing in my back yard:banana:) so they will either be non existant or a "green" luxery item.:(

So I doubt it will alter what I already budget for in my weekly groceries and make me any healthier anyway.. DUM POLITITIANS..:argue:

and I aint no trendy arsed vegan vegetarian ..I am a leather wearing biker who loves meat pies

[mbazza]

Oh well, at least we'll understand the traffic light system 'they' intend to use to clasify our tucker! :rolleyes:

[Hitcher]

PS Re the original post- seems a bit of a leap from a simple labelling improvement to help people make an informed choice, to troops of limp, anaemic vegenazis forcing innocent citizens to consume tofu under menaces.

Governments set targets. When passive measures fail to produce the "desired" results, stricter interventions and regulations surely follow. Today voluntary food "traffic lights", next thing there will be "fat" taxes and other constraints on "non-complaint" foodstuffs. Mark my words. The chippie aisles at supermarkets will soon be filled with sliced organic carrots and tofu kebabs. Illicit drug dealers will be able to replenish the shelves now burdened with party pills with Eta's range of coronarys in a foil bag until these evel products are banned in their entirety. This issue is nothing to do with "informed choice". It's about dietary facism.

[imdying]

So what has being a meat eater go to do with the government wanting to reduce obesity? Apart from vegos being undernourished?

[devnull]

I didn't get to the top of the food chain by eating nothing but veges....

And the biggest target the govt has is Helen, though I think a few others would probably look good through a set of sights as well... :-)

[Ocean1]

So what has being a meat eater go to do with the government wanting to reduce obesity? Apart from vegos being undernourished?

Having removed much of the natural consequences of poor lifestyle choices by the judicious redistribution of funds via ACC the system now finds it necessary to artificially modify our behaviour to minimise those costs.

Artificial markets are always transient, they modify consumer behaviour which eventually renders the original intervention pointless, a natural (unregulated) supply and demand is ultimately the only tenable system.

Public funded health and safety insurance at a nominal price for everyone simply isn't affordable given increasingly sedentary lifestyles, convenience foods and overburdened expectations of what a health system can and can't do. Either you restrict access to health services or you attempt to modify behaviour which contributes to poor health. Or you give up and hand the problem back to the private sector, and immediately and comprehensively loose your mandate to govern.

Jeez, who'd be Helen huh?

[kro]

Whole foods ftw. Man was never meant to eat vegetables alone, and meat is good. GOOD !!!

[jazbug5]

Are you implying that the hell within you is now completely excised, or just slightly reduced?

Unfortunately, the hell within remains roughly the same, what with the regular 'topping up'.
*Sigh*


Hitcher- have you got foil lining in your helmet yet...?

[Mr Merde]

......, and immediately and comprehensively loose your mandate to govern.

Jeez, who'd be Helen huh?


This will never happen as those who dictate to those of us who follow, will never give up and admit they dont know everything that is good for us. Or even that their opinions and beliefs are not as important to the world as they thought.

[Ocean1]

This will never happen as those who dictate to those of us who follow, will never give up and admit they dont know everything that is good for us. Or even that their opinions and beliefs are not as important to the world as they thought.

It'll likely happen at the next election. And we'll trade one syllabus for another.

[MSTRS]

.... evel ...
Hitcher - I am shocked

.... .... This issue is nothing to do with "informed choice". It's about dietary facism.
Absolutely. The 'red light' is only an interim move...soon it will be replaced with images of 500kg+ naked men or women, checkouts will be segregated into healthy/unhealthy and the PC brigade will relax a little by insisting that the cool, healthy, 'standardsize' people laugh and point at the Fatties...

[idb]

I don't see what the problem is. I am a vegetarian in that the only animals I eat are ones that only eat grass.

(except for chickens that eat whatever we have left over; oh and fish... we can't be sure waht they eat; and.....)

On second thoughts, maybe I'm not a vegetarian. But I do sometimes have vegetable with my meat. :sweatdrop

What about those yummy whales?

[McJim]

What about those yummy whales?

Mmmm yeah, I wouldn't mind trying whale meat.....for research purposes only you understand.....:rofl:

[Mr Merde]

...the PC brigade will relax a little by insisting that the cool, healthy, 'standardsize' people laugh and point at the Fatties...

Thereby laying those persons who are above the accepted norm open to ridicule, resulting in a lowering their self esteme and creating a whole new field of employment for the PC brigade.

Support groups for the downtrodden and persecuted "large person".

Of course they (the PC brigade) will need a budget with which to implement their regime. They will write copious numbers of reports and the occasional thesis. All pointing to the fact that there is discrimination directed at those persons.

A self perpetuating industry for those who know what is best for us.

[Mr Merde]

Mmmm yeah, I wouldn't mind trying whale meat.....for research purposes only you understand.....:rofl:

Start off gradually, go for those delicious dolphins.

Do they count as red meat?

[jazbug5]

So... if, say, I was to join this 'PC brigade'... would I get a free computer?
That would be cool.
(But not if there's marching, or epaulettes.)

[Dilligaf]

A self perpetuating industry for those who know what is best for us.

10 characters

[Hitcher]

Hitcher - I am shocked...

Have you never watched Austin Powers and noted that "evil" is mere milquetoast in comparison to the more sinister and brooding "evel"?

[MSTRS]

Have you never watched Austin Powers and noted that "evil" is mere milquetoast in comparison to the more sinister and brooding "evel"?

Mere self-aggrandising justification for what was a simple spelling error...:bash:

[Mr Merde]

Mere self-aggrandising justification for what was a simple spelling error...:bash:

But surely in the light of todays modern thinking its not the actual spelling thats important but the fact that you convey a semblance of your meaning.

One should not be judged upon the exactidudes of ones work but on the work as a whole entity.

[ManDownUnder]

But surely in the light of todays modern thinking its not the actual spelling thats important but the fact that you convey a semblance of your meaning.

One should not be judged upon the exactidudes of ones work but on the work as a whole entity.

Not according to Freud... anything that could be construed as Anal obviously has a serious under pinning demonstrating an unrealised longing to aquaint one's self with the paternal botty hole... or something.

Or, you could take my approach and simply take horse shit as something fun to shoot at.

[Mr Merde]

Not according to Freud... anything that could be construed as Anal obviously has a serious under pinning demonstrating an unrealised longing to aquaint one's self with the paternal botty hole... or something.

Or, you could take my approach and simply take horse shit as something fun to shoot at.

Point taken.

Shooting at horse shit. Would need a large bore as a .17 wouldnt even make a splash.

Nice one MDU

[ManDownUnder]

Point taken.

Shooting at horse shit. Would need a large bore as a .17 wouldnt even make a splash.

Nice one MDU

An M107 manure spreader... sounds like fun....:eek::stupid:

[Bass]

Right,
Just to get back to somewhere near the topic.........I have worked in and around the meat industry for several years and I do enjoy a good steak. However, I strongly suspect that the ranks of vego's of all sorts would be considerably swelled if, before we were allowed to partake of said flesh, we were obliged to spend a couple of hours in a beef slaughterhouse. I say a beef slaughterhouse because it is just so much more graphic. However if you want poignant, then nothing beats an old-style pork slaughterfloor. Old-style because nowadays they gas the beasts and it's a relatively quiet affair.

[MSTRS]

An M107 manure spreader... sounds like fun....:eek::stupid:

In our metricated land of oppurtunity, perhaps http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_XM109,,00.html would be better?

[Ocean1]

True, it's hypocritical to eat meat if you’re not prepared to do what’s necessary to get it. A lesson I was taught early (and graphically) by a farming uncle.

Doesn’t mean you have to slaughter all you eat, just that you can.Those that can’t can sneak up on whatever shrub takes their fancy and call that dinner.

[Dilligaf]

True, it's hypocritical to eat meat if you’re not prepared to do what’s necessary to get it. A lesson I was taught early (and graphically) by a farming uncle.

Doesn’t mean you have to slaughter all you eat, just that you can.Those that can’t can sneak up on whatever shrub takes their fancy and call that dinner.

Eh? I can't build a house either, does that mean I am not allowed to live in one?
I can't build a motorbike or a car... again should that preclude me from owning one?
I could go on and on about the things that I can pay someone else to make for me but what's the point?

Disagree with your idea totally...

[Ocean1]

Eh? I can't build a house either, does that mean I am not allowed to live in one?
I can't build a motorbike or a car... again should that preclude me from owning one?
I could go on and on about the things that I can pay someone else to make for me but what's the point?

Disagree with your idea totally...

No worries mate, fill yer boots.

I also procure such services, although I did build my house and have built bikes and cars. Like you I'm free to pursue what ethical behaviours my concience can afford, I won't ask someone else to do what I won't.

[Bass]

Eh? I can't build a house either, does that mean I am not allowed to live in one?
I can't build a motorbike or a car... again should that preclude me from owning one?
I could go on and on about the things that I can pay someone else to make for me but what's the point?

Disagree with your idea totally...

I think that you completely miss the point.

I have no doubt that you have walked around a building site.
You may even have spent some time in a car plant or more likely, an engineering workshop. As a consequence, it is quite likely that you have some personal experience of what must be done to build a house or a car.
At the very least, you will have seen samples of these activities on television.

This is true for for a great many people - perhaps even a majority.

Have you any personal experience of what must be done to put meat on your plate? Have you ever walked down a slaughterfloor? It's a completely different type of activity - production line dismantling of animals. It is different enough that for some people, it has moral ramifications.
You are choosing to ignore that. It could be said that (mind, I don't know you and so am not making any accusations here) your attitude is, you are happy to hire someone else to do your dirty work - work which you don't have the guts (pardon the pun) to do yourself.

[007XX]

True, it's hypocritical to eat meat if you’re not prepared to do what’s necessary to get it. A lesson I was taught early (and graphically) by a farming uncle.

Doesn’t mean you have to slaughter all you eat, just that you can.Those that can’t can sneak up on whatever shrub takes their fancy and call that dinner.

I like the point you're making here...Funnily enough, my granfdfather had a similar mentality as your uncle.
If you're not prepared to kill it, gut it and clean it, then you really should consider sucking on grass...

So I have killed bunny wabbits, young deers and broken the neck of a chook or two...

Is it PC for me to state this so bluntly? Definitely not...

But what i can say is this: I did not take any pleasure in doing it, I did it as humanly as I could and treated the animal with respect.

And if tomorrow our society goes down the gurgler, and humanity goes back to Caveman days, the odds are my family and I will know how to survive without cheeseburgers.

[Dilligaf]

I think that you completely miss the point.


Have you any personal experience of what must be done to put meat on your plate? Have you ever walked down a slaughterfloor? It's a completely different type of activity - production line dismantling of animals. It is different enough that for some people, it has moral ramifications.
You are choosing to ignore that. It could be said that (mind, I don't know you and so am not making any accusations here) your attitude is, you are happy to hire someone else to do your dirty work - work which you don't have the guts (pardon the pun) to do yourself.

No you're right, I have never been in a production slaughter house. I have however, been there when pigs have been butchered (wild pigs, already dead, hanging from trees butchered).
What I don't get is I gather from your posts that you either think that most meat buyers don't know how the meat got into those packages in the supermarket or you think they do know but shouldn't eat it if they don't have the guts (there we go again lol) to do it themselves...
Your linking the idea that if people wouldn't slaughter an animal themselves, then they shouldn't eat meat seemed a bit odd. I enjoy many things that I could not or would not do myself.
I'm not trying to argue or be difficult here, but I see no difference in not having the skill or inclination to knit a jumper but happy enough to pay someone else to have done it, or loving bacon but not going out to watch the piggy personally give his body for my enjoyment or indeed kill the thing myself... that's all. I sometimes use public toilets but wouldn't want to clean them myself either... lol

[Hitcher]

For many reasons it makes no sense for people to be required to kill and butcher meat for themselves and their family's consumption or even to have "hands on" experience of such practices. It's a bit like arguing that people should know how to grow their own vegetables.

Do people have a "moral" responsibility to be reminded where their food comes from and the basis by which it was produced? Only if they so choose. It's a personal choice.

Should food production systems be a part of the core educational curriculum? Absolutely, provided that the curriculum is based on sound science with due regard for welfare and sustainability issues associated with the production of food for human consumption.

Should all food production systems be transparent and subject to scrutiny to ensure compliance with food safety and other standards that society mandates? Most definitely.

And what should those standards be? Only ones that are based on sound science with due regard for the welfare and sustainability of all involved.

[bert_is_evil]

To get back to the original topic, I'm more than happy for foods to be labelled with a traffic light sticker for people who are too uneducated to know what is going to make them fat and what isn't. In fact I'd much prefer it to having to pay for medical treatment for a bunch of people with diabetes and other obesity related illness's. I really don't see why people would have a problem with it, why would you care if your bacon has a red dot on the packet?

I only skimmed the article but I didn't see any mention of enforced veganism.

[Hitcher]

Did putting warning notices on packets and banning point-of-sale advertising reduce cigarette consumption?

Will putting "traffic light" labels on foods stop obesity?

More severe legislation and punitive controls on food consumption will surely follow.

[007XX]

Will putting "traffic light" labels on foods stop obesity?
.

Nope, but running after their food for a while ought to help! :dodge:

Obesity stems (in my opinion, of course) from a number of complacent attitudes:
-food is too readily available: jump in your car to the supermarket...where is the good ol' Mammoth hunting gone?

-daily occupations are limited in the way of exercise. The harduous task seems to turn the knobb on the coffee machine in the morning.

-Foods loaded with sugar and preservatives are often cheaper and more convenient than more wholesome products.

It is a constant battle against the convenience market to stay healthy and fit, deciding against the donut in favor for the healthier (but maybe as flavoursome to some) apple...

Bottom line is: it comes down to the individual to be educated and mindful enough of their own health to make the right choices.
No one is pushing fast food down our gobs...and no government will ever be able to force people being responsible for themselves.

[jazbug5]

I really don't know that it is so expensive to eat less processed foods. My mum used to drill this into us every time we went supermarket shopping. I can barely approach the biscuit aisle without twitching!
Dearest ma was brought up po', and imparted her lessons unto us well; cheap, good food and look after your feet. And teeth.
People seem to have this weird idea that you have to buy these expensive, packaged 'health foods' (though some of 'em are quite nice), when you can so easily get a few basic ingredients and cook something better for far less cash.
'Packaged food' is still an expletive in my mother's house. Bless her.

That reminds me- when I was last up home, we were chatting about slow food (http://www.slowfood.com/)- worth reading about if you care about these things.

[Ocean1]

Did putting warning notices on packets and banning point-of-sale advertising reduce cigarette consumption?


Not as much as taxing the bejesus out of tobaco products.
Which I wouldn't have a problem with if it was health-targeted and ring-fenced.


no government will ever be able to force people being responsible for themselves.

Sure they can, they can require them to pay for health insurance appropriate to their lifestyle, or die. They'd find that politically untenable, but they might tax the bejesus out of unhealthy food, which again I wouldn't have a problem with if it was health-targeted etc...

[007XX]

I really don't know that it is so expensive to eat less processed foods. My mum used to drill this into us every time we went supermarket shopping. I can barely approach the biscuit aisle without twitching!
Dearest ma was brought up po', and imparted her lessons unto us well; cheap, good food and look after your feet. And teeth.
People seem to have this weird idea that you have to buy these expensive, packaged 'health foods' (though some of 'em are quite nice), when you can so easily get a few basic ingredients and cook something better for far less cash.
'Packaged food' is still an expletive in my mother's house. Bless her.

That reminds me- when I was last up home, we were chatting about slow food (http://www.slowfood.com/)- worth reading about if you care about these things.

Oh trust me, your mum and I would get on like a house on fire.

My son having ADHD, I have decided from earlier on to help him via good nutrition and discipline, rather than drugs...

at 10, he goes to all our shopping trips with me now, and is constantly checking the sugar levels, as well as fat and carbs contents. He is not ruled by it, but certainly is knowledgeable on it and makes the decisions that influence his behaviour and health...

But as an answer about the price comparison, for example: look at the price of frozen vegies and the price of fresh vegies. Obviously added to the convenience differences...Trust me, it is not about expensive healthy prepackaged products!:nono:

[Ocean1]

'Packaged food' is still an expletive in my mother's house. Bless her.

That reminds me- when I was last up home, we were chatting about slow food (http://www.slowfood.com/)- worth reading about if you care about these things.

Bless her. I do like to have my cake and eat it though. I don't have time to cook the meals I'd like to, but sometimes it's difficult to find the makings for a quick meal without compromising quality.

[007XX]

Sure they can, they can require them to pay for health insurance appropriate to their lifestyle, or die. They'd find that politically untenable, but they might tax the bejesus out of unhealthy food, which again I wouldn't have a problem with if it was health-targeted etc...

I thought that was more or less already the case? :confused:

Ie: my boss had a 9.6 cholesterol level and got refused insurance because of it. had to reduce it to a more acceptable level of 6 to be able to get his insurance.
But do you think that it stops him from eating chocolate and the likes? and I'm not talking about a couple of squares, but demolishing a whole 160g tablet in one sitting...But then again, the guy is a moron:oi-grr:

What my point was: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink!

[Mr Merde]

All this talk of taking the healthy option is great but the goal posts keep getting moved.

Case in point.

My partners sister manages a number of tuck shops and such at a few schools. They have taken those foods off that are obviously not the most nutricious for the students.

She is rather incensed that it has been decided, by those who decide whats best for us, that they can no longer sell bananas as they contain too much natural sugar.

WTF. Apart from the natural sugar, as opposed to processed, bananas are a rich source of other essential nutriants.

[Ocean1]

I thought that was more or less already the case? :confused:

Ie: my boss had a 9.6 cholesterol level and got refused insurance because of it. had to reduce it to a more acceptable level of 6 to be able to get his insurance.
But do you think that it stops him from eating chocolate and the likes? and I'm not talking about a couple of squares, but demolishing a whole 160g tablet in one sitting...But then again, the guy is a moron:oi-grr:

What my point was: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink!

Yup, you can't subjugate the prerogatives of evolution, at any price. He does still however have access to quite a high (and very expensive) level of publicly funded health service.

[Grahameeboy]

All this talk of taking the healthy option is great but the goal posts keep getting moved.

Case in point.

My partners sister manages a number of tuck shops and such at a few schools. They have taken those foods off that are obviously not the most nutricious for the students.

She is rather incensed that it has been decided, by those who decide whats best for us, that they can no longer sell bananas as they contain too much natural sugar.

WTF. Apart from the natural sugar, as opposed to processed, bananas are a rich source of other essential nutriants.

That is crazy cause a not so ripe banana contains starch so low glycemic and then as it yellows turns to sugar so a really yellow banana is healthy, would be slow burning calories rather than a quick spike which causes hunger later.

[007XX]

Yup, you can't subjugate the prerogatives of evolution, at any price. He does still however have access to quite a high (and very expensive) level of publicly funded health service.

Yes, we weren't down that troublesome road...

All we ended up being advised was Ritalin, which I VERY reluctantly tried for 3 weeks, and it actually made him worse...

I was told this could be the case, so was not disappointed. I prefer the natural alternative, and time has proven my theory and approach successful, not just from my perspective, but also as ascertained by the school and the health professionals...

i guess my son and I were one of the lucky ones as he does not have a very acute case of ADHD.

[Dilligaf]

My son having ADHD, I have decided from earlier on to help him via good nutrition and discipline, rather than drugs...

:

You know it's interesting that you raise this issue... I help out at a boys group where 50% of the kids there are down as being ADHD. Even in my previous life as a teacher I always had suspicions that many (not all okay) but many of the cases of ADD/ADHD kids were a lack of a clip 'round the ear. But after seeing what these same ADHD kids put in their bodies I am convinced that diet has a part to play too.
Can someone please explain why as a parent of a ADHD child, one would think it's a good ideato give your little darling an ENERGY drink?!?!? GAH! Every week we see these kids arrive (8-10 year olds mind - not teenagers) and the utter crap that their parents let them put in their growing bodies really makes me :scratch::weird::scratch::slap::no:

[Grahameeboy]

I thought that was more or less already the case? :confused:

Ie: my boss had a 9.6 cholesterol level and got refused insurance because of it. had to reduce it to a more acceptable level of 6 to be able to get his insurance.
But do you think that it stops him from eating chocolate and the likes? and I'm not talking about a couple of squares, but demolishing a whole 160g tablet in one sitting...But then again, the guy is a moron:oi-grr:

What my point was: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink!

I happily demolish a 500g bar in 20 minutes but have a high metabolism.

Obesity is in some cases generic, like many other vices and whilst it seems easy to do excercise, for many it is due to either their upbringing or their experience of sports at school.

Some people have thyroid problems which does not help.

But for many it is not so difficult to cut back on food, go for a regular walk and still have a 'treat' day.

[Dilligaf]

Obesity is in some cases generic,.

Hahahahahah yes indeed!!!! Got to be the funniest freudian slip in a while and oh so true too

[Grahameeboy]

Hahahahahah yes indeed!!!!

Do not go any further.....or collect a Wendy's

[Ocean1]

Yes, we weren't down that troublesome road...

All we ended up being advised was Ritalin, which I VERY reluctantly tried for 3 weeks, and it actually made him worse...

I was told this could be the case, so was not disappointed. I prefer the natural alternative, and time has proven my theory and approach successful, not just from my perspective, but also as ascertained by the school and the health professionals...

i guess my son and I were one of the lucky ones as he does not have a very acute case of ADHD.

I was refering to the likely concequences for the moron boss m'dear.

[Ocean1]

You know it's interesting that you raise this issue... I help out at a boys group where 50% of the kids there are down as being ADHD. Even in my previous life as a teacher I always had suspicions that many (not all okay) but many of the cases of ADD/ADHD kids were a lack of a clip 'round the ear. But after seeing what these same ADHD kids put in their bodies I am convinced that diet has a part to play too.
Can someone please explain why as a parent of a ADHD child, one would think it's a good ideato give your little darling an ENERGY drink?!?!? GAH! Every week we see these kids arrive (8-10 year olds mind - not teenagers) and the utter crap that their parents let them put in their growing bodies really makes me :scratch::weird::scratch::slap::no:

Diet does have an effect, no doubt about it. It's not the cause of ADHD though. And as far as "letting" them OD on sugar? Try stopping them once they've left the house, the school certainly doesn't.

It's the same problem as with the rest of the available food choices, sugar and fat taste good, (for evolutionary reasons that are no longer valid), so that's what sells. Knowing this might modify the behaviour of a responsible adult but keeping kids away from sugar and the impulsive and weak away from fat ain't easy when it's dangled in your face every hour of every day.

[007XX]

Can someone please explain why as a parent of a ADHD child, one would think it's a good ideato give your little darling an ENERGY drink?!?!? :

You got to wonder, don't you??? I've seen it before and am always aghast that these parents seem completely oblivious to it...Anyway, rant over for me...it just gets up my goat track, I telly ya!


I happily demolish a 500g bar in 20 minutes but have a high metabolism.


Yes, I know...we saw physical evidence of that! :moon::love:

But in my boss' case, he used to do body sculpting and was quite health conscious...just got lazy along the way and decided that eating himself to an earlier grave was better. Trust me, I'm not just being mean, he is asking for it.



I was refering to the likely concequences for the moron boss m'dear.

Sorry for misunderstanding your meaning Dearest! So then, I agree with you...(like that's unusual! :laugh:)

[avgas]

isnt it ironic that the same number of unemployed = same number of obese = same number of jobs for people with no skills required (i.e. labour intensive, physical work)

[Hitcher]

And it's all very well to whack on about what happened in the "good old days". But only the Green Party wants to wind back that clock.

At-home Mums are becoming fewer and further between, the art of acquiring and preparing food is becoming lost, people and families are becoming cash richer and time poorer. Nobody has the time to faff around in "whole foods" shops or growing their own produce to then spend an age cooking dinner. "Fast" and processed foods fill a need and are not necessarily evel (sic). This whole issue is way bigger than food choices. It's about lifestyles, behaviour change, and acceptance and ownership of the "problem" at an individual level. If mung beans are the answer, I shudder to think what the question is.

[Ocean1]

And it's all very well to whack on about what happened in the "good old days". But only the Green Party wants to wind back that clock.

At-home Mums are becoming fewer and further between, the art of acquiring and preparing food is becoming lost, people and families are becoming cash richer and time poorer. Nobody has the time to faff around in "whole foods" shops or growing their own produce to then spend an age cooking dinner. "Fast" and processed foods fill a need and are not necessarily evel (sic). This whole issue is way bigger than food choices. It's about lifestyles, behaviour change, and acceptance and ownership of the "problem" at an individual level. If mung beans are the answer, I shudder to think what the question is.

H were you molested by a mung bean in your distant childhood? I ask only for information, they seem to feature prominently in your concerns...

Changing food supply and preparation to a mass production footing: good, a belated response to the manufacture and procurement methods which have resulted in the lifestyle we now have.

Dumping 16 teaspoons of sugar into a can of coke and adding fat to otherwise moderately benign foods because that's what sells: not good. I don't know, however if there's an adequate fix for the problem, we’re programmed to eat just that whenever possible. It’s just far more possible now than that programming allowed for. As you originally posted "education" in a political sense is both insulting and ineffective. Seems to me that pricing unhealthy foods accordingly is a good idea, but who decides which to tax, I wouldn’t trust the current crop of dieticians to decide.

As a matter of interest the “original” healthy food triangle much published in the US and which formed the basis for several decades of dietary advice was generated by… the US beef farmers guild.

[idb]

And it's all very well to whack on about what happened in the "good old days". But only the Green Party wants to wind back that clock.

At-home Mums are becoming fewer and further between, the art of acquiring and preparing food is becoming lost, people and families are becoming cash richer and time poorer. Nobody has the time to faff around in "whole foods" shops or growing their own produce to then spend an age cooking dinner. "Fast" and processed foods fill a need and are not necessarily evel (sic). This whole issue is way bigger than food choices. It's about lifestyles, behaviour change, and acceptance and ownership of the "problem" at an individual level. If mung beans are the answer, I shudder to think what the question is.

I whipped up a nice batch of scones last night.

[Pwalo]

Don't know what you're worried about Mr H. It's election time soon, and Allen Clark need to drum up a bit of support and appear to be providing a solution to another no proven problem.

I think the biggest worry is that we'll end up with another piece of ill thought out legislation, or regulation, that will provide endless hours of parliamentary and public debate, and ultimately do bugger all.

I also find it funny that we are getting fatter and living longer. It's also strange that we rely on the BMI which I understand was developed shortly after WW2 (not a time that was well known for it's plentitude).

I'm not too sure that this obsession about what you eat is exactly healthy. Man (oops humankind) has always eaten whatever was around, be it animal or plant. Come on you know it's the green thing to do.

[jazbug5]

Can someone please explain why as a parent of a ADHD child, one would think it's a good ideato give your little darling an ENERGY drink?!?!? GAH! Every week we see these kids arrive (8-10 year olds mind - not teenagers) and the utter crap that their parents let them put in their growing bodies really makes me :scratch::weird::scratch::slap::no:

Tell me about it. Just spent a year working in a school, and saw the same thing time and time again. In my other 'job', helping in a martial arts school with the kids, we ran a summer school this year. The most disruptive kid (a clear 'ADHD' case) came along every day with nothing but packages of sugar and cheese strings and a can of coke or energy drink.
You can imagine the results...



At-home Mums are becoming fewer and further between, the art of acquiring and preparing food is becoming lost... Nobody has the time to faff around in "whole foods" shops or growing their own produce to then spend an age cooking dinner. "Fast" and processed foods fill a need and are not necessarily evel ...

Hmm. And yet, my mother was not a 'stay at home mum'- and she cooked, just as I do after a full day. It isn't difficult. There are lots of quick and easy things to do, it doesn't have to be a quiche or something poncy.. meh.

[007XX]

. The most disruptive kid (a clear 'ADHD' case) came along every day with nothing but packages of sugar and cheese strings and a can of coke or energy drink.
You can imagine the results...

Oh yeah...my son used to complain when younger about how he never was allowed to get the "school lunch order", aka: pies, chips or pizza!!!!
Now, he is proud to have fresh fruits, a yoghurt, muesli bar and a homemade sandwich...yes, it is more time consuming, but it's just a question of being more organised, and the benefits are worth so much...


Hmm. And yet, my mother was not a 'stay at home mum'- and she cooked, just as I do after a full day. It isn't difficult. There are lots of quick and easy things to do, it doesn't have to be a quiche or something poncy.. meh.

I got a great recipe for a quiche that honnestly will not take any longer than 15 mins max to prepare...:laugh:

[Ocean1]

I got a great recipe for a quiche that honnestly will not take any longer than 15 mins max to prepare...:laugh:

You wouldn't be so callous as to feed it to the boy though would you...?

[Mr Merde]

got a great recipe for a quiche that honnestly will not take any longer than 15 mins max to prepare...:laugh:


Make me jealous why dont you.

I havent been able to eat eggs for about 15 years now.

Whole eggs in any form ie fried, boiled, poached, quiche etc make me violently ill.

Can manage cakes etc as the ammount of egg is very little.

Before becoming allergic to them I loved the items

[007XX]

You wouldn't be so callous as to feed it to the boy though would you...?

I haven't got calluses!:blink: Whatever might you mean Dearest???


Make me jealous why dont you.

I havent been able to eat eggs for about 15 years now.

Whole eggs in any form ie fried, boiled, poached, quiche etc make me violently ill.

Can manage cakes etc as the ammount of egg is very little.

Before becoming allergic to them I loved the items

I know the feeling...as a child, I was allergic to antibiotics, eggs, chocolate, dustmites and other interesting things...

I heard there is a product that can replace eggs...ad very successfully so! Ever lookes at your options on this?

[Ocean1]

I haven't got calluses!:blink: Whatever might you mean Dearest???

Real men don't eat it m'dear, it's the law.

You've got to add pastry and bacon and call it pie.

[007XX]

Real men don't eat it m'dear, it's the law.

You've got to add pastry and bacon and call it pie.

Oh yes, lets add more carbs and fat, shall we? :lol::woohoo:

Sorry my friend, but my family leaves the manly BS at the door even if it kills them and eat what they're served...

What do i look like? a freakin fast food cook?? :killingme

[Ocean1]

What do i look like? a freakin fast food cook?? :killingme

How the hell do I know what you look like. Your avatars usually represent nubile young women apparently of somewhat easy virtue. :bleh:


Sorry my friend, but my family leaves the manly BS at the door even if it kills them and eat what they're served...

And if your insistence on this particularly sadistic form of emasculation don't kill them the cooking will huh? A woman blessed with a heritage such as yours has nothing whatsoever to say about low fat diets dear. My favouritest thing is a Burgundy-laced duck liver terrine wrapped in hickory cured bacon, on fresh French bread.

[007XX]

. You usually represent a nubile young woman apparently of somewhat easy demeanour. :bleh:

There, you're getting close...:laugh:


And if your insistence on this particularly sadistic form of emasculation don't kill them the cooking will huh? A woman blessed with a heritage such as yours has nothing whatsoever to say about low fat diets dear. My favouritest thing is a Burgundy-laced duck liver terrine wrapped in hickory cured bacon, on fresh French bread.


Then you are cordially invited to my table at anytime so you can see for yourself the error of your judgement...That invitation is also extended to Pip, of course...:sunny:

[Ocean1]

Then you are cordially invited to my table at anytime so you can see for yourself the error of your judgement...That invitation is also extended to Pip, of course...:sunny:

Cordial yet. Remind me to introduce you to some of the more adult beverages sometime, perhaps during your pending wee visit to Welly. And while I'm sure John's bit on the side will be thrilled with the invite he might be a bit pissed that it wasn't extended to him.

[Paul in NZ]

Damn Vegans - sneakin round here causin trouble - they oughta send em all back to veganland

[007XX]

Cordial yet. Remind me to introduce you to some of the more adult beverages sometime, perhaps during your pending wee visit to Welly. And while I'm sure John's bit on the side will be thrilled with the invite he might be a bit pissed that it wasn't extended to him.

Oh farquartd...I keep on mixing Oldrider and you...:o :laugh: Sorry dearest...

Anyway, for what it's worth, any Kber is welcome to my table...

And I'll have Jamieson and dry thanks...

Now, can we get back on topic before I get rapped ove rthe knuckles again? <_<

[Ocean1]

Oh farquartd...I keep on mixing Oldrider and you...:o :laugh: Sorry dearest...

Anyway, for what it's worth, any Kber is welcome to my table...

And I'll have Jamieson and dry thanks...

Now, can we get back on topic before I get rapped ove rthe knuckles again? <_<

You started it.

Re OT: I wonder if there's any relevance to the fact that women are overly represented amongst the ranks of rabid veggephiles, give that apparently the lot of them are reported to be, in fact, from Venus.

[Hitcher]

And I'll have Jamieson and dry thanks...

Gahhh! Thud. (Even if it is only a vatted malt. And it's Jamesons, BTW)

[Ocean1]

Gahhh! Thud. (Even if it is only a vatted malt. And it's Jamesons, BTW)

Practiced Oirish imbiber H?

Good for making a black tartan I suppose...

[007XX]

Gahhh! Thud. (Even if it is only a vatted malt. And it's Jamesons, BTW)

Yeah, yeah, I know...single malt on the rocks for you, right?

Which, (incidentally going along the lines of this thread :innocent:) is better for you than cut with soft drinks...

So well done, Master Hitch...I'm sure you will tell me all about it when I'm down in Wellie.

Gosh, between you and Ocean1, i'm in trouble...:lol:

[jrandom]

And I'll have Jamieson and dry thanks...

Gah.

Thud.

Not you too.

[007XX]

Gah.

Thud.

Not you too.

Oh FFS...Don't you start giving me shit too?!?:rolleyes:

And what do you mean by "not you too" anyway? Not comparing me to any dodgy ex, are you? :lol:

[jrandom]

it's Jamesons...

It's neither Jamieson nor Jamesons.

The label says 'Jameson'.

It could plausibly be referred to as Jameson's.

[Hitcher]

Yeah, yeah, I know...single malt on the rocks for you, right?

Gahhh!! Thud. Spasm. Twitch.

[Flatcap]

Gahhh!! Thud. Spasm. Twitch.

Sans rocks, neat or sometimes a splash of soft water...?

[Grahameeboy]

It's neither Jamieson nor Jamesons.

The label says 'Jameson'.

It could plausibly be referred to as Jameson's.

I guess after too many it could be either........:apint::apint::apint::(

[Flatcap]

I guess after too many it could be either........:apint::apint::apint::(

Jasimmons......

[007XX]

Gahhh!! Thud. Spasm. Twitch.




A little water helps liberate the volatiles in the alcohol that contain the wonderful aromas and flavours. Drinking neat malt (particularly the cask-strength stuff) will merely cauterise one's palate. Whisky blenders and other professional Scotch "nosers" dilute with 20% water. Personally I think that that's going a bit too far, but it demonstrates value of a little dilution.

And as for ice? Most sipping spirits (malt whisky, cognac, armanac, some rums and fine bourbons, oak-aged tequila) are best consumed at or near body temperature.

Ice, I suspect, has been added to spirits by bartenders for the same reason that McDonald's and others add it -- it makes the measure look bigger.

My apologies Sire McHitcher... I could recall some of your opinion on the matter, but alas not all in this instance.

I stand corrected.:yes:

[Hitcher]

Alas, a ferpectly good food rant thread has become a booze thread.

One wonders what malt whisky made from GM barley tastes like?

[Ocean1]

Alas, a ferpectly good food rant thread has become a booze thread.

Much like the ideal consumption thereof in fact.


One wonders what malt whisky made from GM barley tastes like?

You already know, they've been genetically modifying barley for centuries. More good rant material...

[jrandom]

I stand corrected.

Chilling the snot out of cheap spirits (ie, taking it below 0°C) tends to make the drink more palatable by reducing the obviousness of the acrid flavour.

I like to do this by storing Jameson, vodka and the like in the freezer, rather than faffing about with ice.

My preferred way of consuming cheap whisky is in Rusty Nail form (half and half with Drambuie). Drambuie and blended malt sort of cancel out each others' bad points; it's the perfect recipe for getting drunk on a budget.

:)

[007XX]

Cordial yet. Remind me to introduce you to some of the more adult beverages sometime, perhaps during your pending wee visit to Welly.


Alas, a ferpectly good food rant thread has become a booze thread.

One wonders what malt whisky made from GM barley tastes like?

Ocean1 Started it...:bleh:

Besides, the addition of soft drinks to top shelf alcoholic beverages is very much on topic in my view, as it has been researched for its influence on the softening of the abdominal muscle, leading to the infamous "beer gut" syndrome...

[Ocean1]

Ocean1 Started it...:bleh:

Besides, the addition of soft drinks to top shelf alcoholic beverages is very much on topic in my view, as it has been researched for its influence on the softening of the abdominal muscle, leading to the infamous "beer gut" syndrome...


And pregnancy...

[Ocean1]

Chilling the snot out of cheap spirits (ie, taking it below 0°C) tends to make the drink more palatable by reducing the obviousness of the acrid flavour.

Cheap spirits have acrid snot!!?

[Hitcher]

infamous "beer gut" syndrome...

It's not a beer gut. I am just circumferentially challenged.

[007XX]

And pregnancy...

Now that's an interesting way to put it...:nono:

Anyway, there is also a good angle for this thread...Pregnancy and vegetarians. A friend of mine (being a staunch dietician and vegetarian to boot), had the sense to admit she needed to consume red meat for the wellbeign of her child...

The child is now 2 years old, and she has not gone back to being a vegetarian, for reasons of health as well as preference of satisfaction via the consumption of meat...

Once you go carnivore, you don't go back...:devil2:

[007XX]

Cheap spirits have acrid snot!!?


It's not a beer gut. I am just circumferentially challenged.

You two are impossible :laugh::spanking: