Advice on engine size...

[Speedo-cop]

Hey

I'm hoping for a bit of input into what size I might need.

And engine suitable for:
- carrying about 350kg including riders, gear, and fuel.
- over mixed terrain ie seal to dirt
- comfortable cruising between 80-100kph on a good road
- something light and very economical.

I'm planning on breaking something in well before a long-ride - ten thousand k plus.

I was happy with a 250 before - carrying gear and extra fuel over mixed terrain, but this time I'd be carrying a bit more...

Do you think I could get away with 250?

Should I consider about 500 a minimum?

:) input very welcome

[Edbear]

Well, three candidates come to mind. The Suzuki DL 650 V-strom, the Kawasaki 650 Verseys and the Honda Transalp 650. For what you describe I'd be looking at either of these. The GS650 BMW is also good but as a single cyl. bike may be a bit limited. Owners can correct me as I haven't ridden one.

Kawaskai have also released the new version of the KLX650, also a single cyl. but apparently a good dual purpose tourer.

All these bikes are well suited to NZ roads and will handle gravel and limited off road. An alternative could be the Triumph Scrambler? Ask Big Dave about those, he's a fan of them!

[merv]

How dirty is the dirt you are talking about? If just gravel roads go for something like a V-Strom or BMW traillie, anything more hard out get a proper trail bike like a DR650. 350kg is a lot of weight for a small bike.

[tri boy]

350kg seems like a fair bit of weight. Add a bike weight of, say, 150kg, and your rolling 1/2 tonne down the road.:gob:
Leg length, expected terrain, and expenditure are some bits of info required.
Sounds like a big Adv bike (GS,Tiger) may be needed.

[Speedo-cop]

Hey :) thanks for the input.

I'm hearing I should consider 500 more of a minimum?

re: weight - more than I'd like - I was thinking ball-park, couple people, enough fuel... could probably shave it down to 200kg if two bikes, or 280 on one...

[merv]

Where are you intending to ride?

Are you wanting to do something lke Bartman10 and Fraggle which they did on DR650's http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=48490

[dino3310]

BMW gs1150:2thumbsup

[Speedo-cop]

Where are you intending to ride?

Are you wanting to do something lke Bartman10 and Fraggle which they did on DR650's http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=48490

I've been offered a 'job' riding from "somewhere in Asia, to Russia".

I was happy with a 250cc around South Africa ages ago, but I may have a passenger and camera gear for this one.

I like the fuel economy of a 250, but suspect I'll need more for the terrain, distance, and weight...

And I've never done much of the maintenance-side of bikes - hence the break-in plan - so I can pull it apart and put back together. Will be taking a few key spare parts.

[McJim]

Be warned that Kiwi motorcyclists (like kiwi motorists) believe they need around 14 times the power they actually need :rofl: Ever seen pictures of those old despatch rider's bikes during WWII and the sidecar outfits with machine guns? Those old bikes would probably be lucky to pump out 25hp - less than a modern 250 V-Twin.

A 650 will be more than adequate unless you plan on racing or being chased by local cops :killingme

[The Tazman]

What kind of job is that and where do you get one :D

I'm not very good at keeping up with details of everything biking but wasn't there recently those two English guys that did a huge tour on a couple of BMW Dakar's wasn't it?

Just a thought and I'm sure the wise ones on here will know what I'm talking about and fill in all the details :yes:

[tri boy]

Be warned that Kiwi motorcyclists (like kiwi motorists) believe they need around 14 times the power they actually need :rofl: Ever seen pictures of those old despatch rider's bikes during WWII and the sidecar outfits with machine guns? Those old bikes would probably be lucky to pump out 25hp - less than a modern 250 V-Twin.

A 650 will be more than adequate unless you plan on racing or being chased by local cops :killingme

I don't think dispatch riders ever carried 350kg on their bikes day in day out.
Horse power is irrelevant in this case. Carrying capacity would be my main concern.
A basic F650 or similar bike would struggle to keep its sub and mainframe intact under such weight.
European tourists used to load up XT250s and try to ride them to Cape York in Queensland, and then grizzle about broken frames.
Big is good.:2thumbsup

[clint640]

Hey :) thanks for the input.

I'm hearing I should consider 500 more of a minimum?

re: weight - more than I'd like - I was thinking ball-park, couple people, enough fuel... could probably shave it down to 200kg if two bikes, or 280 on one...

If you are looking at dirt capable touring motorcycles there are two main classes: the 600ish singles & the 1000ish twins. There are also a few mid size twins out there but most are the same weight as the big twins.

280kg is a lot to ask from any bike, I think even a Goldwing would need a suspension upgrade for that. Good comments above, ya may not need the power of a big twin adv tourer, but it sounds like you'll definitely need the luggage capacity. Huge loads & 'light & economical' just don't go together.

Cheers
Clint

[Ruralman]

From memory the manufacturers recommended weight limit for the Transalp is about 180kg - after this expect it to start to effect handling etc. The other 600 class machines will be similar.
An overloaded Transalp will use more fuel than the same weight on a GS1150 so smaller doesn't always mean less fuel consumption. The most Frugal is probably the GS650 but your weight target is a bit much for one of them with out some major mods.
How come so much weight - can't you get it down? How much do you weigh?

[Zukin]

I just checked on my F650GS and it recommends that you don't overload the bike with more than 350kg Maximum :gob:

So that is pretty good I thought, but what would break after a few kms of gravel!!

[Speedo-cop]

Hey :) Thanks for the input.

The weight was for two average adults, camera and related gear, fuel, and essential supplies, spares, and food. - I though of 350 as a something like a maximum - including 160 for two adults, 40 litres fuel @ 40kg, 20kg cameras, and 60kg essentials.

I'm more of a camera person - the other guy's more audio - but he doesn't really ride, so...

Looks like I really need to rethink the scenario - previously I'd ridden around on a 250 - myself, food, clothing, and fuel, a few extras - probably about 130kg, but through far easier country...

I'm seeing one bike just isn't realistic with two people... probably a little obvious if the terrain is any rougher than a graded gravel road :p

[clint640]

Hey :)

I'm seeing one bike just isn't realistic with two people... probably a little obvious if the terrain is any rougher than a graded gravel road :p

Yep, sounds like ya need either 2 DR650s, or a Suzuki Jeep.

Or maybe a Ural outfit?? :2thumbsup (not real quick on the road tho...)

Cheers
Clint

[Speedo-cop]

Yep, sounds like ya need either 2 DR650s, or a Suzuki Jeep.

Or maybe a Ural outfit?? :2thumbsup (not real quick on the road tho...)

Cheers
Clint

Were you thinking of one of the side-care jobs? :)

[tri boy]

Yep, sounds like ya need either 2 DR650s, or a Suzuki Jeep.

Or maybe a Ural outfit?? :2thumbsup (not real quick on the road tho...)

Cheers
Clint

Nice call Clint. Go for a Ural sidecar, with the two wheel drive option. (drive on the chair wheel).
May not be the fastest beastie, but damn cool. Camouflaged and forward mounted machine gun.:woohoo:

[tri boy]

How bout these?

[cooneyr]

Just slightly :Offtopic: but check out this harley V twin powered home built Dakar racer (http://www.hogwildracing.com/bike.shtml). They had ago at the Lisbon Dakar rally but took too long during the first stage in north africa so got kicked out. The gearing was all naffed up cause of the rear wheel size, harley gearbox ratios and CS size so made there own front sprockets only to wear the teath off in very short order and didnt have spares with them.

Made for really interesting reading and vids to watch (be warned there are lots of them) when you are at home recovering for 6 weeks.

Seriously though - go the Ural Patrol (http://www.imz-ural.com/patrol/) with a couple of "extras" like cammo paint and pop gun. Lots of vids on the web as well including some very cool ones of drifting in snow on the Ural web site

Cheers R

[avgas]

DR650, bmw650, xr400 would be my pics

[Speedo-cop]

How bout these?

I hope other readers took a look at those - especially the big-cargo-version :)

I've been reading around on the Urals - a couple very good accounts of the mechanical endurance aspects of them.

- Sounds like they've a problem with crud stuffing up the intakes - or at least :p people wonder why the engine fills with water when they're riding through rivers, etc ;)

But that's easily sorted.

I was a little leary of them as I'd heard little but bad about the quality of manufacture and overall reliability...

But both are going to be issues when throwing bikes off cliffs and swimming deserts :doctor:


Just slightly :Offtopic: but check out this harley V twin powered home built Dakar racer (http://www.hogwildracing.com/bike.shtml).

Cheers R

That's pretty interesting :) Cool to see someone on the Dakar who doesn't just buy something off the shelf with 'dakar' in it's product title :p

[NordieBoy]

Just slightly :Offtopic: but check out this harley V twin powered home built Dakar racer (http://www.hogwildracing.com/bike.shtml). They had ago at the Lisbon Dakar rally but took too long during the first stage in north africa so got kicked out. The gearing was all naffed up cause of the rear wheel size, harley gearbox ratios and CS size so made there own front sprockets only to wear the teath off in very short order and didnt have spares with them.

And they use a 520 chain on the beastie.

[Moki]

I'd suggest that the KLR650 might be pretty close to what you would be looking for. :cool:

[RedKLR650]

I'd suggest that the KLR650 might be pretty close to what you would be looking for. :cool:

My sentiments exactly.... :2thumbsup:

Stu