Advice needed on purchasing first scooter!

[Scooter Girl]

:scooter:

Hello everyone

I'm thinking about purchasing a scooter and need some advice. I currently ride a bicycle and am looking to upgrade for those longer trips and wet days.

I don't know much about scooters, other than that you need a car license for a 50cc and a bit about 2 and 4 strokes. Can anyone give me some advice as to what would be a good scooter for a 'newbie'? What do I need to look out for when purchasing? I want something with a lot of storage space as I tend to lug around a lot of stuff. I also need something that can handle hills, as Tauranga has a fair few of them. I'm also a bit worried about having an accident or falling off, as cycling is a lot more controlled. I have a learners license, but can't drive a car. I've had some experience driving tractors and ATV's though.

Thanks for any advice anyone can offer!:clap:

[NighthawkNZ]

:scooter:

Hello everyone

I'm thinking about purchasing a scooter and need some advice. I currently ride a bicycle and am looking to upgrade for those longer trips and wet days.

I don't know much about scooters, other than that you need a car license for a 50cc and a bit about 2 and 4 strokes. Can anyone give me some advice as to what would be a good scooter for a 'newbie'? What do I need to look out for when purchasing? I want something with a lot of storage space as I tend to lug around a lot of stuff. I also need something that can handle hills, as Tauranga has a fair few of them. I'm also a bit worried about having an accident or falling off, as cycling is a lot more controlled. I have a learners license, but can't drive a car. I've had some experience driving tractors and ATV's though.

Thanks for any advice anyone can offer!:clap:

Please... Please for gawd sake stay away from the Chiness models, buy at least a Japaness Suzuki, Honda, Yamaha etc... you won't regret that bit of advise

As for falling off, ride as if nobody has seen or heard you even if they have looked you right in the eye. Ride as if every one is out to get you and think ahead .

With the scooters you probably won't be able to go over 55k's any way so speed won't be a problem, unless you are down hill with tail wind while farting for a turbo boost... :lol: then sometimes they are prone to speed wobbles but you just ride to your skill and ability and have fun and take care.

[mdooher]

Possibly get a motorcycle learners licence and a slightly larger scooter, at least 80cc. This will allow you to at least pretend to keep up with the traffic and you can even do your full licence on it in 6 months
Apart from that ..... everything NighthawkNZ said

[canarlee]

i agree, a slightly larger scooter would be better. spesh if you are going uphills! you dont want to have to push the bugger up em do ya?

[Scooter Girl]

Can't you ride in the cycle lanes though? Will a 50cc not get you up hills?

[El Dopa]

you need a car license for a 50cc :

You need a CAR LEARNER licence (the scratch and sniff test) to ride up to 50cc. You need a motorbike licence for anything bigger.


and a bit about 2 and 4 strokes.:

2-stroke motors are virtually indestructible in scooters. If you are not mechanically-inclined, a 2-stroke is recommended.

My wife had a 50cc 2-stroke Honda Pal for some years. It was left outside in the rain throughout six months of the winter one year without being ridden or started (her scoot, her problem). Come spring, I charged the battery, drained a bit of water from the carbs, et voila - started first time.

She also crashed it twice with only minor scuff damage.

So, a 50cc Honda Pal (or equivalent) is recommended. They are indestructible.

However, they will only do about 45kmh. Which is fine on the flat in the city, but will not be fine if you're intending to ride out on the open road in the country. In fact it will be actively dangerous.

But if you need more power, you will need a license.

Also, all scoots are a bit limited luggage-wise. How much do you mean by 'a lot of stuff'? A couple of steamer trunks?

[Scooter Girl]

Hi El Dopa

Well on my bike, I normally have a large backpack and one of two pannier bags. I have a learners car license, but can't drive a car. What are 4 stroke motors like? What is equivilent to a 'Honda Pal'?

[kaz]

Can't you ride in the cycle lanes though? Will a 50cc not get you up hills?

It will get you up the hills but you may hold up traffic behind you. A 2-stroke will give you more power for hills than a 4 stroke (but they smoke) so a good and well-priced 2-stroke Yamaha Jog (which I tried out once up a very big hill in Wellington) would be ok.

However if you can stretch to a slightly bigger engine, it will ensure you can keep up with traffic.

You will need proper protective gear - jacket (with armour), gloves, pants, boots, helmet. I started on a 50cc 4-stroke which I absolutely loved, then pinched my partner's Vespa 150cc, and now have a 250cc which allows me to go on the motorway very comfortably.

Not sure about the cycle lanes (does someone else know?) I can't imagine that bicycles and scooters would go well together. Usually those lanes really are for cyclists and they need them coz they can't travel at the speed of the rest of the traffic or get out of your way easily (I used to cycle commute for a while). Bus lanes, yes you can travel in those (unless they are "Bus Only" bus lanes). But the appropriate way to ride is to ride in more or less the middle of your lane, as you would if you were in a car. If you hug the gutter, you will only encourage cars to treat you badly, or you will send out confusing signals about your intentions, and you will run into problems. So you need to ride like you're a vehicle that deserves to be on the road - which is why others (and I) encourage you to choose something that allows for that.

[kermit63]

I'd go for a scooter that had enough power to go a bit faster than the traffic. I see some appalling driving round Wellington with car driver either tailgating scooters, or trying to muscle them off the road. It's nice to be able to create a bit of space between yourself and whatever's behind you. I had a 50cc scooter in Dunedin a long time ago and it was pretty weak on the hills. I had to push a couple of times and even a wee scooter is pretty heavy.

Don't skimp on the protective gear either - all the stuff Kaz says. You only have to hit the road once to understand how important it is.

Whatever you get, I hope you enjoy the riding.

[Warren]

Stick to one of the better brands with reputation for reliability and proper dealers with parts that will still be there in 10 years time. If you wanted more power you could get your motorcycle learners and get a 125cc 4 stroke, they have more than enough power around town but cost a bit more to buy and need more expensive llicencing and WOF's.

[Scooter Girl]

Thanks guys. I've been reading that you can do something to the engine to make it go faster, but I also know it's illegal, cause it then has to be registered as a motorcycle, but apparently the cops aren't very up with the play about this. Could you not get a 50cc and do this instead of getting a faster engine?

[Steam]

Could you not get a 50cc and do this instead of getting a faster engine?
Yip, and it's quite easy. There are step-by-step instructions on the internet detailing how to remove the different restrictions.
And there are heaps of dorky guys out there who'd love to help a girl de-restrict her scooter.

I had a 50cc suzuki scooter in Taiwan, it had been derestricted by a previous owner, I got it up to 70 on the flat fairly regularly. And I weigh nearly 100kgs.

[Scooter Girl]

So is that just the same as getting say a 100cc engine?

[Steam]

So is that just the same as getting say a 100cc engine?

Definitely not that much.
Go for the 50cc now anyway, and you can see if you like riding, and start getting your real motorbike license while you are riding the scooter. Plenty of time for more cc's later.

[kaz]

Well on my bike, I normally have a large backpack and one of two pannier bags. I have a learners car license, but can't drive a car. What are 4 stroke motors like? What is equivilent to a 'Honda Pal'?

Hi Scooter Girl, if you carry that much stuff you'll probably need a Top Box as well as the seat compartment to fit everything. You'd easily get the contents of 1 pannier, plus a bit more into a scooter seat compartment but you would not also get your backpack's contents in unless you get a Top Box.

4 stroke motors are generally very reliable and robust and tend to last longer. You don't need to add oil when you put in petrol as you do with a 2-stroke. 2-stroke sound high pitched and whiny; 4 strokes make a lower more gruntier sound. 2 strokes put out smoke which is kind of uncool for the environment. But you get more power output from a 2 stroke for the same engine size (I won't attempt to explain the mechanics of combustion here; someone else will do a better job at that than me!)

To give you an idea of the difference when riding...
I used to have a 50cc 4-stroke Sym Mio (Sym is a well respected Taiwanese brand). Derestricted it would do 62km max on the flat and 46km up a big hill. I tried a 50cc 2stroke Yamaha Jog on the same route and it did 75km on the flat and 60km up that same hill.

A 100cc or 125cc engine would get you to a maximum of around 90km which probably sounds like too much as you might just be thinking of 50km zone travel. However when you're heading up hills, the bigger engine would mean you can easily do 50-60km, not hold up other traffic, and not feel like you're ringing the guts out of the scooter. But it would require a motorcycle learners license (you do a 1/2 day course, which is worthwhile, and a written test for this). Equally a 50cc Yamaha Jog or other 2 stroke would probably give you enough power for what you want - and they're cheap at around $2000 new.

[Scooter Girl]

Should I go for a 50cc or larger? Does anyone know whether I can ride a scooter in a cycle lane? I don't think the hills in Tauranga are as steep as those in Wellington or Dunedin, but there are quite a few of them. To start with I'll be commuting to and from tech and possibly work, possibly doing some longer trips when I gain confidence. The 4 stroke engine, minus the speed factor seems to be the better engine overall. Would it make any difference to the speed if this was derestricted?

[UberRhys]

Okay Scooter Girl, this is how it is (in Auckland anyways...).


Should I go for a 50cc or larger?

In my humble opinion, you should go for something a little larger than a 50cc but this will mean getting a motorbike licence (testing and scratching then further testing...). A bigger scooter will get you everywhere with the flow of traffic no worries, but if a 50cc is all you want, need and desire then do it. 2stroke and derestrict it (talk to the shop about it) to get the most from it.


Does anyone know whether I can ride a scooter in a cycle lane?

In Auckland you can't ride in cycle lanes as it is stated that you can't take motorised vehicles in cycle lanes - but hey I see them all the time. Guess it's just a matter of not getting caught...


I don't think the hills in Tauranga are as steep as those in Wellington or Dunedin, but there are quite a few of them. To start with I'll be commuting to and from tech and possibly work, possibly doing some longer trips when I gain confidence.

Hills are hills and will be mountains on a 50cc scoot. But a little patience will go a long way. This is where a bigger scoot will come into play and you will certainly notice the difference, espically on longer trips. Comfort factor is also determined by size. Generally 50cc scoots are small and get larger through the ranges etc... Bigger scoot, more room.


The 4 stroke engine, minus the speed factor seems to be the better engine overall. Would it make any difference to the speed if this was derestricted?

Again, IMHO 2T is much better on a small scoot (50cc-125cc) and then after that engine size the 4T will become the better option. Also as far as mods go, there are way more available to make 2T's go faster.

And some final advice - stay away from anything made in China. The build quality and the finish is not up to scratch and although they appear cheap and affordable, once you start taking it to the shop for repairs it can add up quickly.

Hope this will help, anyone else?

[kaz]

Hi Scooter girl, I see that you currently ride a bicycle (and I used to commute that way too) and I'm curious about why you are so keen to ride a scooter in a cycle lane? Are the cycle lanes not well used in Tauranga? Or do you think cyclists won't mind sharing their lane with scooters? Is it that you really don't want to ride amongst other motorised traffic? Just curious in a friendly way :)

[Scooter Girl]

Ok, so 2 stroke is better, i've got that. I'm a bit worried about it making heaps of noise and smoking though and aren't 4 strokes better for the environment? I'm a bit confused about whether to get a 50cc or higher. The costs associated with more cc's is a lot higher, wouldn't it be almost equivilent to a car? Minus fuel costs of course. The fact that engines with more cc's have more room and can keep up with traffic better is appealing, but I'll only really be commuting short distances to start with, albeit up a few hills. However, I could make the scooter go faster by derestricting it, which kind of defeats the purpose of getting an engine with more cc's solely because of speed. Is it better to get the scooter new or secondhand? Is riding a scooter similar to an ATV? I've done that a few times. In answer to your question Kaz, I'm enquiring about riding in cycle lanes because I'm a bit apprehensive about riding with all the other traffic and figure it will be safer, plus it's something I'm used to doing with my bike. And yes, I have seen scooters in cycle lanes here. You guys are so helpful, keep up the good work!!

[UberRhys]

Ok, so 2 stroke is better, i've got that. I'm a bit worried about it making heaps of noise and smoking though and aren't 4 strokes better for the environment?

Worried about noise and smoke? Don't be. Be proud, thats how they are designed to work. As for the environment, bicycles are best for the environment. No smoke, just the constant squeak of a rusty chain...


However, I could make the scooter go faster by derestricting it, which kind of defeats the purpose of getting an engine with more cc's solely because of speed.

Derestricting a 2T will make it go faster, but it ain't going to make it a V8. The change is marginal but noticeable. Hills will still be an issue and the only way to overcome this is to get more cc's.


Is it better to get the scooter new or secondhand?

Both have there advantages, new means it will be fresh off the showroom floor with dealer warranty, support and all the things that come with a new purchase. The second hand market is by far cheaper, but seriously lacking (depending on whom you purchase from) in after sales support.


Is riding a scooter similar to an ATV? I've done that a few times.

Similar in that they have handle bars and a motor. More like riding a funny weighted bike (which you do already).

Scooter Girl, I think the best thing for you to do is go to a few different bike shops and test ride a few 50cc scoots (try different brands. Honda, Yamaha, TGB, PGO, Peugeot, Vespa...) and see how each one handles and performs. Then you will know what you really want.

Bike shops can be the nicest people to deal with (although there are a few dodgy dealers out there...) as they want you to buy from them and will do quite a bit to win your money.

After this though (bike testing) you may want to go through the second hand market and find something yourself as you will have a better idea of what you are after. Hope this helps.

[Scooter Girl]

How do the on road costs of a scooter above 50cc compare to a car?

[scootnz]

WOF is optional for 'mopeds'. Required for over 50cc. WOFs are annual for the first 6 years from new, 6 monthly after that. WOF costs range from $30-$40 depending on where you go.

Registration: go here http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/vehicle-ownership/registration.html#fees to see the costs for different vehicles.

Fuel: obviously better than cars.

Oil: yes you need to use oil.

Parking costs: There is usually free parking available for 2 wheel vehicles.

Gear: what you think your body is worth. And head. And skin etc.

If you are too timid to ride on the road with cars etc, stick with your bicycle. Not being mean or anything, but its not fair to cyclists to try and share their portion of the road. You should know that as a cyclist surely?

2 wheelers can use most bus lanes (not on motorways or 'bus only' lanes though).

2 strokes are generally perceived as a bit more peppy than 4 strokes. "Mopeds" are supposed to be under 50cc and under 2 kilowatts - so they are 'restricted' to fit within the rules. They can be 'derestricted', but then don't fit within the moped rules.

The smoke and noise is a bit of a stereotype - they do have a distinctive sound, and the 'smoke' depends partly on the quality of the oil you use. Use lawnmower oil and thats what your exhaust will smell like. Nicer than diesel fumes.

Jess

[davereid]

Scootnz has got it right...

Don't underestimate the moped rego bike.

Yes they are only going to go about 50-60 km/hr.

But they cost only 2k 2.5k ish to buy a good one new.

No WOF, and $67 a year rego.

They get 80-120 or more mpg.

If you live in town, or one the outskirts you will beat the car drivers home, park for free, and spend the change you find behind the couch on fuel and running costs.

Buy European if you are rich and smart, Taiwanese if you are poor and smart, and Chinese if you like walking and didn't really want a scooter anyway.

All the good two stroke mopeds will conquer hills with ease. Run 'em on good oil, and change the spark plug on yer birthday and your transport is sussed.

[kaz]

In answer to your question Kaz, I'm enquiring about riding in cycle lanes because I'm a bit apprehensive about riding with all the other traffic and figure it will be safer, plus it's something I'm used to doing with my bike. And yes, I have seen scooters in cycle lanes here.

Ok I see where you are coming from. But there are cycle lanes for a reason - so motorised traffic is not held up by cycles and so cyclists can ride without motorised traffic up their arse or running them over. But you already knew that.

Speaking as a sometime cyclist myself, I wouldn't be too keen on sharing my lane with motorised traffic, even a scooter. If you ride in a cycle lane, you would also be positioning yourself in the gutter where all the road crap that causes punctures or injuries ends up. And it would mean that you, on a scooter, would sometimes need to swerve back out into the traffic in order to get past a bicycle, making your scooter riding somewhat unpredictable to car drivers (I am now speaking as a car driver too). Car drivers will find your behaviour confusing - are you in the cycle lane for good or are you part of the motorised traffic and about to swerve out at any time? Are you wanting to be overtaken or expecting people to treat you as another vehicle? Are you broken down, needing help, or just kinda in the way but trying not to be...?

I do understand that you feel nervous about tangling with motorised traffic but being on a scooter means you are motorised traffic. And I think riding in the traffic, taking a lane to yourself like any other vehicle, is actually safer than what you are proposing.

Take heart though. Even if you feel nervous now, you won't always feel like this. You will ride better and feel more confident with practice. You can practice manoeuvres in empty carparks or other safe spaces, and use the roads to ride cautiously but in the middle of the lane where people know what you're up to and can treat you as another vehicle. Even though you don't need to do a Basic Handling motorcycle course if you're not getting a learners license (you don't need a learners license for 50cc), you might find the doing a short half-day course like this really boosts your confidence and gives you a chance to practice some of the things you are most nervous of with supervision in a safe environment. Good luck!

[adamh]

as alot of people have stated dont get a chinees scooter as i actually have one now and didnt think it was a problem when buying (worst mistake in my life) lol.
my china made scooter was $1650 brand new and i only got it cause it was the only 50cc bike that would fit me cause my legs are long lol.
anyway in having my scooter for about 4 months now ive spent over 1 grand on it mechanically which is f***ing stupid cause ive still got problems with it lol
it cost me $360 bucks to get my tyre fixed!!! that blew me away and now i have to sell it cause i dont like it anymore lol.
anyway dont buy a china made 1 and mine is 4 stroke which is shitty up hills.

[adamh]

a big factor in hill climbing on scooters is dont do wat i did:
- dont buy chinees
- my scooter was designed as 125cc but has 50cc in it ( makes it flappin heavy lol)
4 stroke loses more power uphill than 2 strokes (my friend has 2stroke scooter derestricted and flys up hills.)