Good stir = DomPost Pg4 (7 Sept 07)

[Grub]

It's all KB's fault of course. I came across the older cheescutter threads one day and had a bit of a read. Then as I had to pass the roadworks installing even more twice a day, I wondered if ACC knew about the amputation stats around them. I dropped them an email and BCC'd it (hehe) to the DomPost.

Faced with the overseas evidence, DomPost have taken it up as a cause and today's article is I understand just a tickler.

The stuff that got me motivated was
- Norway has banned them altogether
- Belgium is ripping a section out every year until they're all gone
- Victoria is looking at banning them
- The Netherlands has banned them
- In France they alll have to be filled in with a plastic tube called "Moto-tub"
- 85% of motorcyclists hitting these bariers at over 70kmh loose a limb

There's lots more but that's the stuff I passed to ACC and DomPost and it seems they've started doing their own research too ... maybe it'll do some good.

[Swoop]

Nice work!:niceone:

[Macktheknife]

Well done Grub, bloody good effort there mate, let's hope they get the message and get rid of the bloody things.

[ajturbo]

but they look so cheep....
why get rid of them?....
they stop nothing but limbs

[janno]

Oh good job that man! :2thumbsup :2thumbsup Thank you for being so proactive.

They scare the crap outta me, them cheesey things. They are going in at a rate of knots around Brisbane.

As I understood it, they weren't even that good at stopping cars from getting in to on coming traffic. Isn't it reasonably easy for the car to get over the top and keep going?

[Grub]

but they look so cheep....

Yeah they are, that's prolly why they do them.

Wire rope Barrier = $5/m
Concrete Barrier = $20/m

But guess what ... the UK has just finished a study which has led to them making the decision that concrete is cheaper in the long run because of maintenance and repair issues.

[KoroJ]

I noticed yesterday...and it's a bit disconcerting, that they appear to be replacing the armco barriers on the harbour side of the Hutt Road with this stuff.

[WRT]

There are quite a lot around now that haven't been repaired after an accident either, especially on SH1. I would imagine that a second vehicle hitting a previous crash site wouldn't be stopped all that effectively.

[Nasty]

... It's all KB's fault of course.

You make me so proud .. you stirring git ... LOL ... weird to see your real name in print .. but I guess it ain't gonna be the last time :)

[clint640]

I noticed yesterday...and it's a bit disconcerting, that they appear to be replacing the armco barriers on the harbour side of the Hutt Road with this stuff.

Damn right, They're popping up on the edges of some South Is roads too, Choosing between one of these barriers & oncoming traffic is one thing, but if it's choice between tumbling down a bank or hitting a cheesecutter, I'll take my chance with gravity every time thanks.

Clint

[Albino]

For those without access to a Dom Post: http://www.stuff.co.nz/4192789a11.html

Nice work that man.

[sunhuntin]

read the article at work today... didnt know it was a kber! well done! up here between wangas and palmy, they are putting in more armco barriers on the sides. some are nothing more than the wooden stakes at the moment.

[merv]

I can't find reference now but I thought I read somewhere that Transit thinks these wire rope barriers are far superior (for cars and trucks that is) because they arrest an out of control vehicle by bringing it to a slower hault and keeping it at that side of the lane instead of a hard crunch against armco or concrete and the chance of it bouncing back into traffic on that side of the road (not as important here as on a mulitlane highway). Bikes I am sure are totally forgotten in this equation.

Rule number one team - don't bother crashing along that highway - it might hurt.

p.s. I guess Grub knows that Brett guy quoted in the paper pretty well then.

[R6_kid]

I've seen what they do to a car, and lets just say i'm not too keen on meeting one at any speed of walking pace.

I'd say the french idea is the best we'd get though, although ACC/LTSA likes to make it obvious that bikes are dangerous, they certainly don't mind making it more dangerous for us by not taking us into consideration when designing such median "barriers" (it's more of a fence!)

[RantyDave]

Transit's general manager network operations, Roly Frost, said Transit had taken motorcyclists' concerns seriously - but international research showed wire rope median barriers were no more dangerous to motorcyclists than other types.
Perhaps we should cut one of his arms off?

Good work Grub!

Dave

[Dodger]

Good work.
Those things give me the heebies when riding past.

[Grub]

Transit's general manager network operations, Roly Frost, said Transit had taken motorcyclists' concerns seriously - but international research showed wire rope median barriers were no more dangerous to motorcyclists than other types.
... {sigh} ...


Perhaps we should cut one of his arms off?

Hehehe ... well in my lit search I came across the "international research" he was talking about. It was done with crash dummies on motorcycles that hit the wire rope barriers while still upright. Not one test was done with the bike and rider sliding along the road which is how limbs get all mangled.

It's a worry isn't it.

[Usarka]

Hehehe ... well in my lit research, I came accross the "international research" he was talking about. It was done with crash dummies on motorcycles that hit the wire rope barriers while still upright. Not one test was done with the bike and rider sliding along the road which is how limbs get all mangled.

It's a worry isn't it.

fuck are you serious? pm me the references and i'll raise some f834723874ing shit myself....... :incredible hulk flexing smilie:

[RantyDave]

It was done with crash dummies on motorcycles that hit the wire rope barriers while still upright. Not one test was done with the bike and rider sliding along the road which is how limbs get all mangled.
Halfwits. If I was still upright I'd be working my arse off to avoid the bloody thing.

Dave

[oldrider]

Thank you Grub, thats really a good thing that you did. :niceone: John.

[Grub]

fuck are you serious? pm me the references and i'll raise some f834723874ing shit myself....... :incredible hulk flexing smilie:

Here ya go ... there's heaps more too ... just Google "research motorcycle barrier"

http://www.fema.ridersrights.org/crashbarrier/index.html

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-01/esv/esv19/05-0095-O.pdf

[banditrider]

Congrads - top man! They're nasty looking bits of kit.

Have stuck a couple of links on my blog - might get the story to 1 or 2 more people.

[Dodger]

There's a follow up in today's Dompost on Page A9

Linky here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/4198973a23918.html

[sunhuntin]

"But it is saving lives, and riders would rather hit that than an oncoming truck."

o really??

[yod]

"...a motorcycle safety consultant..."

my arse...

[ceebie13]

It's only going to take one tragic and horrific accident involving a biker and a cheese-cuttter median barrier for Mr Kirk to eat his words.

What yod said above....Who is this bloke anyway??

[peasea]

It's only going to take one tragic and horrific accident involving a biker and a cheese-cuttter median barrier for Mr Kirk to eat his words.

What yod said above....Who is this bloke anyway??

Bloke? More of a big hairy woman's front bum I'd say. Who the hell hired that tosser? Still, like everything else, nothing will be done coz lazy-arse kiwis will just sit there and moan instead of doing something.

Anyone writing to Transit? The minister of transport? LTNZ? Their MP? Or even Kirk himself?

I doubt it. Prove me wrong please.

[ajturbo]

good point there peasea!...
this is Allen kirk's email addy nzmscon@paradise.net.nz
and this is thier moto..

The NZMSC's slogan is "We Will Save Your Life".( but not your limbs)






but also could we sue them for knowingly put up maming barriers? ( sorry about the speeeling:()

[peasea]

good point there peasea!...

but also could we sue them for knowingly put up maming barriers? ( sorry about the speeeling:()

Not in this country (maybe the 'o' is superfluous) coz they'll hide behind ACC or something.

Ahh, Bastille Day, such fondness for the vox populi.

[Wannabiker]

I wonder how many head on accidents along that stretch of road were caused by cagers re-tuning their car radios? Is it just me, or does anyone else who (it's OK to admit it here) drives a cage along that stretch find that radio reception from Wellington stations drops off, and similar heading the other way? Or do all the cages that I own (or have owned) have crap radios.

[mdooher]

I just sent this to Mr kirk....

I note your comment in the Dominion Post today that motorcyclists would rather hit the wire rope barrier than an oncoming truck. Perhaps this is true, but since the wire rope barrier will not stop an oncoming truck the motorcyclists on the road in question will now hit both.

I for one would rather take my chances with a car than the barrier.

Matthew

[ajturbo]

I just sent this to Mr kirk....

I note your comment in the Dominion Post today that motorcyclists would rather hit the wire rope barrier than an oncoming truck. Perhaps this is true, but since the wire rope barrier will not stop an oncoming truck the motorcyclists on the road in question will now hit both.

I for one would rather take my chances with a car than the barrier.

Matthew

cool one down.. how many more have the gall to send coments?

[Skunk]

I just sent this to Mr kirk....

I note your comment in the Dominion Post today that motorcyclists would rather hit the wire rope barrier than an oncoming truck. Perhaps this is true, but since the wire rope barrier will not stop an oncoming truck the motorcyclists on the road in question will now hit both.

I for one would rather take my chances with a car than the barrier.

Matthew
What's his email address? He's not helping us and I'd like to point that out to him.

[mdooher]

this is Allen kirk's email addy nzmscon@paradise.net.nz
and this is thier moto..




...apparently

[mdooher]

Fuck....... you really have to check out this site http://www.graphologyguru.com/Tree_results.htm This really is the same Allan Kirk, check out the email at the bottom of the page.

[Matt_TG]

Same guy?! A tree and handwriting analyst, AND a motorcycle safety consultant in his spare time. I was going to email Greer McDonald, author of the article, for credentials of their 'expert', but after finding the links below, think I'll email Kirk direct.

edit:

Yep, it's the same guy:

http://www.megarider.com/nzmsc.html <-- same pic as on the tree site
http://www.capitalletters.co.nz/Motorcycle.html <-- He's written a few books

[Rhino]

He is the man behind www.megarider.com and has been involved in motorcycle safety issues for years.

I have to disagree with his "acceptance" of the wire rope barriers though.

[mdooher]

I just got a reply to my email to Allan Kirk, Hey I'll give him his due at least he responded. (From his personal email as well) He said that in 2005 the wire rope barrier stopped a truck crossing the centre line into the path of 2 bikes and 3 cars.... Doesn't say how far away the vehicles were from each other etc.... perhaps we should send him links to real overseas research, who knows we might change his mind on the subject

[davereid]

Set a date. Bikers block the road. I'll show up with my generator and metal cut off saw, and in 20 minutes the danger will be gone.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Rick Barker is a motorbike rider: he has or did have a Triumph Rocket 3 (the behemoth one, not the old cool one)

http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/MPP/MPs/MPs/a/7/9/48MP171-Barker-Rick.htm

unfortunately Annette King (http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/MPP/MPs/MPs/0/0/6/48MP1341-King-Annette.htm) is presently Minister of Transport. Because she is also food safety, she is too busy eating all the frigging pies to give a shit about cheesecutter barriers in Wellingtron.

a better bet might be Harry Duynhoven (http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/MPP/MPs/MPs/e/1/6/48MP691-Duynhoven-Harry.htm) who is minister of transport safety.... its down to him this shit happens. He gets the big bucks, he ought to take some shit. He also might be something of a kindred spirit though:

Leisure activities
Enjoys motor sports, restoring classic cars and motorcycles, running, soccer, theatre


election year next year so theyll be even more twitchy about bad publicity, the fuckers.

[HenryDorsetCase]

He is the man behind www.megarider.com and has been involved in motorcycle safety issues for years.

I have to disagree with his "acceptance" of the wire rope barriers though.


I went to a motorcycle riding course he organised in Wellington years ago (1983?).. so he has been around for years... he was very much the "organiser" type back then,

I concur with your second point

[Skunk]

I've had a response from Allan Kirk. He says he "has laid a complaint with the Chief Editor over the editing of his comments in that article."

I guess a reporter or editor has their own agenda... :shifty:

[clint640]

I reckon the barriers up the middle of the centennial hwy are a lost battle, I don't like 'em either but any other barrier would cost millions more.

I think motorcyclists should direct their energy against the wire rope barriers that are appearing on the sides of roads, & down the middle of really wide roads like SH1 south of Auckland, they're only saving a few $K there, at a great risk to us. If that shit starts popping up around here, I'll be standing next to Dave with my generator & cutoff disc - it's amazing what you can get away with if you wear a hi-viz vest :msn-wink:

Cheers
Clint

[Pixie]

I reckon the barriers up the middle of the centennial hwy are a lost battle, I don't like 'em either but any other barrier would cost millions more.

I think motorcyclists should direct their energy against the wire rope barriers that are appearing on the sides of roads, & down the middle of really wide roads like SH1 south of Auckland, they're only saving a few $K there, at a great risk to us. If that shit starts popping up around here, I'll be standing next to Dave with my generator & cutoff disc - it's amazing what you can get away with if you wear a hi-viz vest :msn-wink:

Cheers
Clint

What you and others don't seem to understand,my friend,is that if the space between lanes is so restricted that only a wire will fit,then the wire rope barrier is the last type of barrier that should be installed.
To prevent vehicles from intruding into the opposing lane,the WRB needs to be installed 3 metres from the lane to allow for the stretch as the vehicle deflects it.
That is 6 metres between lanes.
Anything less and a WRB is not a functional barrier.

They are not magic fucking force fields from Star Trek


PS Motorcyclists should direct all their energy against WRB's - with the exception of their kinetic energy

[UberRhys]

Is this available in the online edition? I don't have access to the print edition at work in Auckland.:confused:

[MSTRS]

This particular thread is ammunition in the "I told you cheesecutters kill motorcyclists" campaign. Shows that the current furore is not a knee-jerk response to Daniel's death.

[Zapf]

Remember Transit on Wednesday says they will be doing a review of the WRB's relation to the accident. And so on Friday Transit's general manager network operations, Roly Frost, said Transit had taken motorcyclists' concerns seriously - but international research showed wire rope median barriers were no more dangerous to motorcyclists than other types.

So do you think they really meant what they said on Wednesday? http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10471713

[Hanne]

The "weekend herald jury" today A13:

People voted 7-5 'guilty' to 'not gulity' for transport officials putting lives at risks by having the barriers installed instead of using sturdier materials.

Their overall verdict: Not guilty...

WTF? Someone can't count, last time I checked 7 was greater than five!

[Grub]

This particular thread is ammunition in the "I told you cheesecutters kill motorcyclists" campaign. Shows that the current furore is not a knee-jerk response to Daniel's death.

Indeed and the most compelling thing I would like to pass onto Transit and their "Road Barrier Symposium" to demonstrate what exposed barrier supports do is this http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1261485&postcount=1

[Sanx]

The "weekend herald jury" today A13:

People voted 7-5 'guilty' to 'not gulity' for transport officials putting lives at risks by having the barriers installed instead of using sturdier materials.

Their overall verdict: Not guilty...

WTF? Someone can't count, last time I checked 7 was greater than five!

Perhaps they work on the court principle. You need a 10-2 majority for a guilty verdict?

[sunhuntin]

i see in the dom today the wire on centennial highway WILL be extended to run the entire length. im gonna have to find a new way into wellington i think!

[Nasty]

i see in the dom today the wire on centennial highway WILL be extended to run the entire length. im gonna have to find a new way into wellington i think!

Hard to avoid .. but straight over paecock hill does it nice and easy!

[sunhuntin]

Hard to avoid .. but straight over paecock hill does it nice and easy!

*fits hovercraft to 250 so she can fly over all the bullshit wires* lmfao

havent done that hill... might have to have a go.