Zaoui's back in town.

[caesius]

And I for one never saw the need for the protests and various other hippie activities calling for his release.

He had convictions in France and Belgium for participating in and leading terrorist networks; had been deported from Switzerland, and excluded from the UK. Never mind all that, NZ will take you... Well over $3 million of taxpayers' money has been spent on his attempts to jump the queue and bypass NZ security. Not to mention how his release will show New Zealand as a soft touch for illegal immigrants.

Anyway, it may be time for my first red rep? But I am still dying to know what people think. P.S. I'm no racist - only a realist.

Cheers.

[JimO]

achmed zaoui for pm.............just what NZ needs

[Steam]

How could a man with a smile like this possibly be dangerous?

[jimbo600]

And I for one never saw the need for the protests and various other hippie activities calling for his release.

He had convictions in France and Belgium for participating in and leading terrorist networks; had been deported from Switzerland, and excluded from the UK. Never mind all that, NZ will take you... Well over $3 million of taxpayers' money has been spent on his attempts to jump the queue and bypass NZ security. Not to mention how his release will show New Zealand as a soft touch for illegal immigrants.

Anyway, it may be time for my first red rep? But I am still dying to know what people think. P.S. I'm no racist - only a realist.

Cheers.

Green rep from me mate. Should have booted him at the fist opportunity. Now all his freeloading terrorist family will move here. NZ is a real soft touch and one day it'll backfire.

[young1]

Have you ever read Robert Fisks book - The history of civilisation - the Middle East (or something like that) If Zaoui had anything to do with what went down in Algeria he deserves a bullet. BUT if he is a true refugee get his family over here asap.

[riffer]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

I still don't think we've heard anything near the truth.

[caesius]

Have you ever read Robert Fisks book - The history of civilisation - the Middle East (or something like that) If Zaoui had anything to do with what went down in Algeria he deserves a bullet. BUT if he is a true refugee get his family over here asap.

No I have never, off to google it now.

He destroyed his documentation on arrival - he has now been let it. Going by precedent his family should now be allowed here without documentation also.

And every other person of Algerian consent - NZ wouldn't want to be biased would we?

[Skyryder]

And I for one never saw the need for the protests and various other hippie activities calling for his release.

He had convictions in France and Belgium for participating in and leading terrorist networks; had been deported from Switzerland, and excluded from the UK. Never mind all that, NZ will take you... Well over $3 million of taxpayers' money has been spent on his attempts to jump the queue and bypass NZ security. Not to mention how his release will show New Zealand as a soft touch for illegal immigrants.

Anyway, it may be time for my first red rep? But I am still dying to know what people think. P.S. I'm no racist - only a realist.

Cheers.


Yea next the Greens will be seeking compensation for him. Any takers that he will not be on their 'List' seats.

[Drum]

How come I have to pay his dental bills as well as mine? Can I go to his country and they will pay my bills?

What a load of old toss.

[caesius]

Yea next the Greens will be seeking compensation for him. Any takers that he will not be on their 'List' seats.

Or maybe we'll be seeing him on "Dancing with the Stars"?

[xwhatsit]

Can I go to his country and they will pay my bills?

Yeah, sure. Maybe not dental, but I'm sure they would have some kind of public healthcare/social security system.

Become a citizen/resident like Zaoui and Bob's your uncle.

[SPman]

I, for one, am glad he has finally been vindicated. The whole farce has been a government and media cockup, if not stitchup from the start!

Before all you NZ first supporters really get your knickers in a twist, perhaps it would be a good idea to find out a bit of real information about the whole debacle - Gordon Campbell is doing a good series about him here.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00174.htm

But then - it's always better to just shoot yr reactionary mouths off, with opinions based on half baked, onesided, knee jerk, self serving distortions, currently served up as fact, by most politicians and their media cronies!

All the better to control you, m' dears..............

[caesius]

Yeah, sure. Maybe not dental, but I'm sure they would have some kind of public healthcare/social security system.

Become a citizen/resident like Zaoui and Bob's your uncle.
I see you've deleted your first post.

I'm all up for an open debate but in this case...you've got to be kidding?

[caesius]

I, for one, am glad he has finally been vindicated. The whole farce has been a government and media cockup, if not stitchup from the start!

Before all you NZ first supporters really get your knickers in a twist, perhaps it would be a good idea to find out a bit of real information about the whole debacle - Gordon Campbell is doing a good series about him here.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00174.htm

But then - it's always better to just shoot yr reactionary mouths off, with opinions based on half baked, onesided, knee jerk, self serving distortions served up as fact, by politicians and their media cronies!

All the better to control you, m' dears..............

I'm reading.

I see a lot of conspiracy theories against the British government and their "racist" agendas but no evidence.

No ones shooting off their reactionary mouths as far as I can see. Can I offer a contradictory argument SPman? What if a *European* arrived in our country and immediately destroyed their documentation? What then? What would be your opinion? Let them in?

[Mr. Peanut]

How could a man with a smile like this possibly be dangerous?

Hey works for me! :eek:

[caesius]

For history's sake I've found an old (and I mean old) thread on this matter - when it first arose.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/archive/index.php/t-43764.html

[SPman]

I'm reading.

I see a lot of conspiracy theories against the British government and their "racist" agendas but no evidence.

No ones shooting off their reactionary mouths as far as I can see. Can I offer a contradictory argument SPman? What if a *European* arrived in our country and immediately destroyed their documentation? What then? What would be your opinion? Let them in?
If they were genuine refugees, yes. I see no problem, as long as they check out.
What is the hangup with destroying his documents? That has been a legitimate procedure for refugees, recognised as such by the UN and most countries around the world, including NZ, for decades!

Obviously, you haven't read much!

[Nasty]

I listened to the news this morning .. and had to giggle ... "he won't be seeking an apology from the NZ government" .... bloody oath ... what would they apologise for. Come in illegally and pose security issues ... he knew that would pose issues .. the guy is not a moron ... and then have NZ pay his room and board for a few years .... now we welcome him to bring his family over ... interesting ... what work is he going to do to pay for everything ... is he employable ... or is he like most politicians a teacher, a lawyer or a farmer .... oh well .... Apologise ... hehehehe

[caesius]

If they were genuine refugees, yes. I see no problem, as long as they check out.
What is the hangup with destroying his documents? That has been a legitimate procedure for refugees, recognised as such by the UN and most countries around the world, including NZ, for decades!

Obviously, you haven't read much!

I completely disagree there. I'm not arguing ad hominem SPman, I just can't see why this man should get so many tax dollars spent on him (more than most NZers) when they've been living here and paying taxes all their lives.

I can't see how destroying docs is a legitimate procedure - but yes, maybe I haven't done enough reading. But then I could say the same about a good proportion of the population that think NZ detained an innocent man for no reason.

Cheers.

[sisterecho]

Trouble is, most NZers are basing their opinions on the snippets they see through the media. They don't have the full history but are happy to jump on the bandwagon anyway.

[Mr. Peanut]

Talk is talk, I don't see anyone getting of their arses and doing anything.

I agree with the above sentiment, never met the guy, don't know the full story. My opinion has no weight.

[caesius]

Trouble is, most NZers are basing their opinions on the snippets they see through the media. They don't have the full history but are happy to jump on the bandwagon anyway.

Which bandwagon? Going by readers responses on theherald.co.nz there are quite a few people who think he should have been turned away in the first place.

[Goblin]

All would be ok if he were a wife beating overstayer in need of dialysis tho.

[Finn]

This Government is hell bent on making sure NZ is the laughing stock of the world.

[tri boy]

I'll just wait to read his overpriced book, and the dozens of Womans Day/New Idea interviews, then I, like the rest of NZ will focus on the next sensationalised issue.
Legal, or illegal immigrant, buggered if I know. Welcome aboard mate.
Don't take excess cockles, and you'll fit right in.:yes:

[doc]

He had convictions in France and Belgium for participating in and leading terrorist networks; had been deported from Switzerland, and excluded from the UK.

If that is true, what are we doing let him in ? The system is stuffed .

[Skyryder]

I, for one, am glad he has finally been vindicated. The whole farce has been a government and media cockup, if not stitchup from the start!

Before all you NZ first supporters really get your knickers in a twist, perhaps it would be a good idea to find out a bit of real information about the whole debacle - Gordon Campbell is doing a good series about him here.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00174.htm

But then - it's always better to just shoot yr reactionary mouths off, with opinions based on half baked, onesided, knee jerk, self serving distortions, currently served up as fact, by most politicians and their media cronies!

All the better to control you, m' dears..............


This man has cost the taxxpayer over two million dollars and still climbing. And he has not contributed one cent to our economy. Money that could have been better spent on those that realy need it. Go figure.


Skyryder

[Magua]

I'd like to know why he's no longer considered a risk, but perhaps we'll never know.

Since he has been classed a genuine refugee, welcome aboard.

[Skyryder]

I'd like to know why he's no longer considered a risk, but perhaps we'll never know.

Since he has been classed a genuine refugee, welcome aboard.

It might have something to do with the fact that two of his collegues with the same political ties as Zaoui's have been allowed to settle in the USA. Whatever the reason something has changed. He will still be under survaliance by the SIS. That's the worrying bit. There is still some doubt.

Skyryder

[Ewan Oozarmy]

I wouldn't mind but I got well vetted by the NZ immigration brigade before I got residency and I'm a law abiding British citizen married to a Kiwi :)

And to make matters worse they gave Michael Barrymore residence without any fuss at all :blink:

[Albino]

This Government is hell bent on making sure NZ is the laughing stock of the world.

That implies that they are intentionally trying to fuck up the country. Which also implies that they know what they are doing. I think it's just that their deluded, corrupt and incompetent.

Does anyone else think that Wowies lawyer has the hots for him? Every photo I see she looks like she's infatuated....


This man has cost the taxxpayer over two million dollars and still climbing. And he has not contributed one cent to our economy. Money that could have been better spent on those that realy need it.
Like dole bludgers.

[Coldrider]

So now we are going to have a terrorist as a NZ citizen, cool, gives NZ a citizen with balls. Maybe it is territorial, like possums and cats.

[riffer]

How about some evidence for the terrorist accusation Coldrider?

Perhaps you should be working for the SIS? Or Winston Peters? :whistle:

[Pixie]

Well,you live in a country of hippy wannabe's
what are you gonna do?

[riffer]

Well,you live in a country of hippy wannabe's
what are you gonna do?

10-4 I read you.
My handles gorgeous, pretty vacant, eh
Subvert normality
Fuuuuuck you!
Punk is not sexual, its just aggression
10-4 old buddies
Destroy, kill all hippies
Anarchy! disco sucks
Subvert normality

REF: Primal Scream - Kill All Hippies

[Coldrider]

How about some evidence for the terrorist accusation Coldrider?

Perhaps you should be working for the SIS? Or Winston Peters? :whistle:
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh... It's classified, but as another thread reads, 'KB is being watched'.......what's that noise outside..

[avgas]

Welcome to New Zealand Ahmed, land of the free....stuff.
Import all your friends and family - fuck bring your goats if you want.
If this country is going to be the global dumping ground its good to put a foundation of nappies first.
Sorry im just a bit bitter about this, i know how f'ed up the immigration dept is in NZ. If i'd known then what i know now i would have just called my girlfriend a terrorist/refugee/scammer and it would have made the whole immigration thing easy. As it stood NZ didn't want to keep a hard working skilled migrant.
NZ isnt going to the dogs - its looking for the mange.

[Grahameeboy]

Welcome to New Zealand Ahmed, land of the free....stuff.
Import all your friends and family - fuck bring your goats if you want.
If this country is going to be the global dumping ground its good to put a foundation of nappies first.
Sorry im just a bit bitter about this, i know how f'ed up the immigration dept is in NZ. If i'd known then what i know now i would have just called my girlfriend a terrorist/refugee/scammer and it would have made the whole immigration thing easy. As it stood NZ didn't want to keep a hard working skilled migrant.
NZ isnt going to the dogs - its looking for the mange.

We seem to be allowing 1 man to get to our freedom.........our views of NZ's policy.............plus there is no way this place is a global dumping ground.....just take a look around the world and what happens elsewhere...........

[caesius]

Welcome to New Zealand Ahmed, land of the free....stuff.
Import all your friends and family - fuck bring your goats if you want.
If this country is going to be the global dumping ground its good to put a foundation of nappies first.
Sorry im just a bit bitter about this, i know how f'ed up the immigration dept is in NZ. If i'd known then what i know now i would have just called my girlfriend a terrorist/refugee/scammer and it would have made the whole immigration thing easy. As it stood NZ didn't want to keep a hard working skilled migrant.
NZ isnt going to the dogs - its looking for the mange.

avgas you've hit the nail on the head. How many skilled migrants are turned away every year?

I'm sorry for your situation - cases where people who arrive here illegally and are not only allowed to stay, but are branded as heros must p*ss you off royally.

[riffer]

Good points guys.

So why are we turning away skilled migrants? Is there any particular policy those of you who've faced this first-hand can explain to me?

Because it doesn't seem to be reported that way in the media.

What's really happening out there?

[Grahameeboy]

Good points guys.

So why are we turning away skilled migrants? Is there any particular policy those of you who've faced this first-hand can explain to me?

Because it doesn't seem to be reported that way in the media.

What's really happening out there?

I know the points system is quite high and depends on many factors like age as well as qualifications / experience.

My Sister had to reach 100 points before getting the 'Expression of Interest'

[caesius]

I know the points system is quite high and depends on many factors like age as well as qualifications / experience.

My Sister had to reach 100 points before getting the 'Expression of Interest'

Mr Zaoui must have scored real high in one of the sections then...

[Ewan Oozarmy]

Good points guys.

So why are we turning away skilled migrants? Is there any particular policy those of you who've faced this first-hand can explain to me?

Because it doesn't seem to be reported that way in the media.

What's really happening out there?

I came over on the "defacto relationship" (missus is a kiwi) which scores 100 points if you can prove you've been together over 18 months (no probs - 10 years in my case) but still took over 2 years from start to finish.

I must admit I had no problems with this as it seemed at the time to prove NZ immigration were doing their homework.

Take my word for it - they're more strict here than in the UK. No points system in place and a pre-requisit that the applicant is a dole bludging menace to society....

[peasea]

Green rep from me mate. Should have booted him at the fist opportunity. Now all his freeloading terrorist family will move here. NZ is a real soft touch and one day it'll backfire.

On the button!
He should'a been gone the day they found him. How many by-pass op's can you get for 3mil? Hip joints? It makes my blood boil.

[SPman]

This man has cost the taxxpayer over two million dollars and still climbing. And he has not contributed one cent to our economy. Money that could have been better spent on those that realy need it. Go figure.

Skyryder

And why is that? He was cleared by the RSAA back in August 2003 after a thorough investigation. The government could have then either accepted he was a genuine refugee or spat the dummy because the SIS looked like a pack of amateur keystone cops with a knowledge of recent Algerian history you could put on a pinhead. They chose the latter, which is what ultimately led to the vast expense. The SIS could not possibly be seen to be incompetent! The only difference now is that they have a new head, who is actually able to look at the whole scenario and then act on what is fully put before him - and he is willing to talk. A compromise agreement was reached - which is totally meaningless, but, face was saved.

I agree the money could have been better spent, but, when governments refuse to accept that they may have made a mistake, what do you expect - humility!

As to the - "he should have got in the queue" bleating.
Regardless of what Peters will bleat on about to his bigotted constituency,
there is no queue! Never has been. Refugees normally have to move fast, or else! It is normally a situation where there is serious threat to your life if you don't. No queue exists when people are applying for political asylum and Zaoui followed the procedures to a T. He declared who he was the moment he landed at Auckland airport and he identified the FIS political movement to which he belonged. He did not enter New Zealand illegally – he applied for political asylum under the rules of the UN Refugee Convention that New Zealand claims to recognise.

[Grahameeboy]

On the button!
He should'a been gone the day they found him. How many by-pass op's can you get for 3mil? Hip joints? It makes my blood boil.

How was the $3million calculated though....did it actually cost the Govt an extra $3million over budget or has someone just done a costing based on what was provided. I mean did they draft extra staff to deal with him or was it just normal immigration service etc...if you get my drift.

To my mind the only extra would have been accomodation, food and any legal aid would not explain the $3million

[Scouse]

This parasite should have been put straight back on the very plane that brought him here fuckin no ifs or buts

[SPman]

On the button!
He should'a been gone the day they found him. How many by-pass op's can you get for 3mil? Hip joints? It makes my blood boil.
It should be making your blood boil!
Government incompetence, (because, that's what this is, ultimately, about - they are now drafting immigration regulations which will let them get away with virtually anything, Zauois case is set to be repeated), has cost a damn sight more than $3mil!

[Scouse]

I, for one, am glad he has finally been vindicated. The whole farce has been a government and media cockup, if not stitchup from the start!

Before all you NZ first supporters really get your knickers in a twist, perhaps it would be a good idea to find out a bit of real information about the whole debacle - Gordon Campbell is doing a good series about him here.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00174.htm

But then - it's always better to just shoot yr reactionary mouths off, with opinions based on half baked, onesided, knee jerk, self serving distortions, currently served up as fact, by most politicians and their media cronies!

All the better to control you, m' dears..............Its alright for you, you dont live here.

[Goblin]

Interesting to see how many of you "The War Against Terror" (T.W.A.T) has sucked in!

[Grahameeboy]

Have read the Campbell stuff and he was a simple refugee trying to escape a Country where his life was endangered. He was a religious leader and well known for his tolerance and moderation and looks like the Govt decided he was a terriorist and the press went along with it. One could argue this has not helped his safety.

He did not intend to be a parasite. The Govt turned him into one.

He has been here 4 years.

Plenty of immigrants get into NZ by other means accepted by Govt.

Lot worse in the UK so NZ is a paradise in comparison.

[ynot slow]

You have got to wonder though when our SIS dept say things about his history and can't be reported on,if he is a saint and salt of the earth why suppress this info,I still stand by my personal beliefs that religion had and will cause more wars and secterian violence,under the umbrella of so called ethnic cleansing.

[SPman]

You have got to wonder though when our SIS dept say things about his history and can't be reported on,if he is a saint and salt of the earth why suppress this info,I still stand by my personal beliefs that religion had and will cause more wars and secterian violence,under the umbrella of so called ethnic cleansing.
They suppress info because they try to build a case to fit their scenario, and, having the power to keep everything as secret as possible, they can say whatever they want and, they being official government sources, most people swallow what they say without thinking - cos they're the gummint and they wouldnt lie to us!
Zaoui is about as fundamentalist a Muslim, as an Anglican cleric is a raving fundamentalist Christian
He should now be able to get a job and start supporting himself - which is all he wanted to do in the first place!

[Scouse]

Dont get me wrong Im not prejudiced against ragheads I just prefer the ones that stay in there own country

[peasea]

How was the $3million calculated though....did it actually cost the Govt an extra $3million over budget or has someone just done a costing based on what was provided. I mean did they draft extra staff to deal with him or was it just normal immigration service etc...if you get my drift.

To my mind the only extra would have been accomodation, food and any legal aid would not explain the $3million

3mil, 3-hundred, it could have been three cents, whatever the figure it was wasted.

[peasea]

They suppress info because they try to build a case to fit their scenario, and, having the power to keep everything as secret as possible, they can say whatever they want and, they being official government sources, most people swallow what they say without thinking - cos they're the gummint and they wouldnt lie to us!
Zaoui is about as fundamentalist a Muslim, as an Anglican cleric is a raving fundamentalist Christian
He should now be able to get a job and start supporting himself - which is all he wanted to do in the first place!

Not to mention doing so under false pretences.

[peasea]

Lot worse in the UK so NZ is a paradise in comparison.


and a soft one at that.

[Coldrider]

Universities are eyeing him up with jobs. Doors opening already and he will be far better off while most NZers can only watch.

[Dafe]

How was the $3million calculated though....did it actually cost the Govt an extra $3million over budget or has someone just done a costing based on what was provided. I mean did they draft extra staff to deal with him or was it just normal immigration service etc...if you get my drift.

To my mind the only extra would have been accomodation, food and any legal aid would not explain the $3million

If you calculate nearly 4 years worth of paying for the services of NZSIS lawyers & the Director, Crown Law Lawyers, Stuart Grieves QC, Deborah Manning and her defence team (incl Dr Rodney Harrison QC) and the Inspector General of Security for NZ, not to mention the masses of support staff behind each organisation that are involved in preparing case documents, transporting & escorting classified materials etc, the cost builds nicely.

I imagine guys like Stuart Grieves would cost around $500 hourly. Thats why he owns the most expensive house in Auckland.

[Dafe]

It should be making your blood boil!
Government incompetence, (because, that's what this is, ultimately, about - they are now drafting immigration regulations which will let them get away with virtually anything, Zauois case is set to be repeated), has cost a damn sight more than $3mil!

New policy has been written so that a repeat situation will not occur in future. The NZSIS now have the ability to turn similar situations away when they arrive at NZ airports. Something that should have been in place long ago.

[Grahameeboy]

3mil, 3-hundred, it could have been three cents, whatever the figure it was wasted.

Is that your 3 cents worth?

[Grahameeboy]

and a soft one at that.

Better a soft paradise than a soft rat race like UK

[Grahameeboy]

If you calculate nearly 4 years worth of paying for the services of NZSIS lawyers & the Director, Crown Law Lawyers, Stuart Grieves QC, Deborah Manning and her defence team (incl Dr Rodney Harrison QC) and the Inspector General of Security for NZ, not to mention the masses of support staff behind each organisation that are involved in preparing case documents, transporting & escorting classified materials etc, the cost builds nicely.

I imagine guys like Stuart Grieves would cost around $500 hourly. Thats why he owns the most expensive house in Auckland.

True but I am talking about extra costs. Some of the costs you mention are fixed costs so they get paid like we do so would have been incurred in any event and some are variable, like private legal costs.

[jimbo600]

They suppress info because they try to build a case to fit their scenario, and, having the power to keep everything as secret as possible, they can say whatever they want and, they being official government sources, most people swallow what they say without thinking - cos they're the gummint and they wouldnt lie to us!
Zaoui is about as fundamentalist a Muslim, as an Anglican cleric is a raving fundamentalist Christian
He should now be able to get a job and start supporting himself - which is all he wanted to do in the first place!

Wrong wrong wrong. The SIS are scrutinised thoroughly. They suppress info because to disclosing sensitive information would disclose methodology which in turn would be defeated by harmful entities. They cannot do whatever they want and are actually bound very tightly. But as its a clandestine government agency its easy to fill the gaps of ignorance with fantasy and conjecture. Just like MI6 killed lady Di, the Americans didn't land on the moon, 9/11 was actually done by the CIA etc.

[peasea]

Better a soft paradise than a soft rat race like UK


But if they keep letting people in under false pretences we'll have our own rat race. It's already started...........

[Grahameeboy]

But if they keep letting people in under false pretences we'll have our own rat race. It's already started...........

Nah, you guys are getting paranoid.

The population in UK in 1800 was 10 million and in NZ it is around 4 million.

In 200 years population has increased to 60 million and in 150 years NZ increased by 4 million. We are not in world terms a migrant located area and there are more single people over 30 and I think our population growth is not keeping up ie births v deaths.

In 200 years time I guess the population here will still be low.

[caesius]

The population in UK in 1800 was 10 million and in NZ it is around 4 million.

In 200 years population has increased to 60 million and in 150 years NZ increased by 4 million. We are not in world terms a migrant located area and there are more single people over 30 and I think our population growth is not keeping up ie births v deaths.

I'm yet to have my coffee, could you explain what you mean by this? In 1800 we had how many people? 4 million? Now we've increased by 4 mill? Or did we have 0 population in 1800?

[peasea]

I'm yet to have my coffee, could you explain what you mean by this? In 1800 we had how many people? 4 million? Now we've increased by 4 mill? Or did we have 0 population in 1800?

What he said was "The population in UK in 1800 was 10 million and in NZ it is around 4 million." It IS, not it WAS.

Anyway, I don't have any problem with importing workers with the right paperwork, who meet all the criteria. I just have a problem with those who come here under false pretences and then scream 'refugee!'

If you don't have the right papers, fuck off.

[u4ea]

Does anyone else think that Wowies lawyer has the hots for him? Every photo I see she looks like she's infatuated....



yup..I see that in her too..maybe when his four sons grow up they may be trained by a New Zealand pilot school and fly into her living room and make her day:shit:!!!!Shows NZ is a soft touch and we are bound to suffer the consequence from other countries.:nono:Switzerland is pretty nuetral and they didnt want him ....:done:

[SPman]

Wrong wrong wrong. The SIS are scrutinised thoroughly. They suppress info because to disclosing sensitive information would disclose methodology which in turn would be defeated by harmful entities.

I understand the reasons for suppressing info and it is logical, however when, as in this case, they initially, basically fucked up, the "suppressing info because of disclosing methodology" becomes a method of trying to keep egg off your face. The fact they would then persist, regardless of the outcome, right or wrong, is the worrying factor, as in all secret establishments and power bases.
With secrecy, comes (or should come), the responsibility to act correctly, with fairness, insight and morality, facets that don't exactly leap out from powers around the world that conduct everything in secret...
I don't think the SIS have been scrutinised as thoroughly as they should have been in the past and perhaps, they should have a good look at their methodology in future, as well.
With the new Director, perhaps there is hope that this will happen. He seems to recognise that talk and diplomacy can achieve more than the current trend of blind naked aggression!


Shows NZ is a soft touch and we are bound to suffer the consequence from other countries.
What a load of baloney. What is this bullshit about "being a soft touch"! Do people actually think, before they spout this garbage! How many people get into the US every year on reasons far less than Zaoui has - tens of thousands!
Would you call the US a "soft touch"?
NZ's refugee allocation is 750 a year! - not very fucking many on a world scale. Zaoui was seeking political asylum, which does not come under the refugee quota. Spending several years in detention, 12 months in solitary and the amount of shit Zaoui had to go through to get in, (and there are others who have spent several years in detention in NZ), would not be sending the message that NZ is a soft touch! Quite the opposite, I would have thought. When you are desperate (have you ever been really desperate), you will try whatever you can to stay alive and in good mind. To deny even the possibility of that, makes you less than human, in my books!

[Sanx]

This parasite should have been put straight back on the very plane that brought him here fuckin no ifs or buts

That's an argument that would automatically exclude all refugees, regardless of whether their claims were genuine or not. Does this mean you think that no refugees should ever be allowed in the country?

In Zaoui's case, he was declared a genuine refugee by the Refugee Status Appeals Authority. Now, I haven't sat through an RSAA appeal, but my other half has sat through tens of them. She's listened very closely to every word spoken by both sides. These appeals are not a quick interview. The appellant (the person applying for refugee status) can be represented by a lawyer and can call witnesses. The 'prosecution', usually the Immigration Service, is usually present also and can also call witnesses. The appeals are conducted by two judges and can last up to three eight hour days. They ask questions from every angle, about every conceivable topic. They have the ability to consult outside opinions on the workings of other countries (for instance, how the judicial system in Iran works, and how easy it is to bribe officials). The judges are not stupid, by any stretch of the imagination.

If Zaoui convinced the RSAA he was genuine, then a) he is genuine, or b) he's a fucken good liar.

So when the government starts talking about crucial national security issues but won't reveal what they are, even to Zaoui's lawyer, you do have to wonder what the hell it is they're hiding. Sure, an enormous amount of money has been wasted on this case, but you can't necessarily blame Zaoui for that. If the government has simply accepted his refugee status (and therefore trusted the body - the RSAA - they appointed to determine such status), the money wouldn't have been wasted.

[SPman]

Never mind - haven't the Gov. decided to abolish the RSAA (perhaps because they actually looked at everything in an unbiased and even handed fashion), and give the Immigration Dept, and SIS new, "improved", even more secret powers, so they can turn away these hordes of refugees without having to explain anything to anyone, on even more dubious and spurious reasons?
This way - they can never be wrong!

It's another part of a worrying trend that bodes, yet again, no good for our society or the ordinary citizens within.

[avgas]

We seem to be allowing 1 man to get to our freedom.........our views of NZ's policy.............plus there is no way this place is a global dumping ground.....just take a look around the world and what happens elsewhere...........
Yeah im just biased as my mate had his zzr400 totalled by a Somalian Rufugee who wasnts suppose to be driving (no nz license), then when the court case came around she split to Aussie (She had been a NZ refugee for 5 years so this allowed her into up to 5 other countries).
Then there was the case with my misses when she paid NZ $10K for a 'job offer' (which fell through) to a Korean business man, who's work permit existed as he $100,000 in the bank (which gave him half the points for citizenship) - Oh and FYI people our Hon John D. is also in this "Job" market.
Also there are dodgy immegration case handlers (one of my friends is STILL on work permit due to not paying a bribe)
Having seen the other side of NZ's dark fence, i no longer think that we are the friendly, sweet, innocent country that the brochures have people to believe.
Not to mention that i hear more horns in Auckland in 1 day, than i heard in New York in 1 week.
Attitudes are very wrong in some people in NZ.
I feel that NZ isnt quite a dumping ground yet - more the 4 square for rest of the world (convenient). Stepping stone to Australia, UK and US for alot of people who do not have choices due to the people they are.

[avgas]

Does this mean you think that no refugees should ever be allowed in the country?

Not really - i dont believe in Refugees.
We have enough bludgers here as it it.
Imigrant workers (and their close families) i believe in.
Why import stuff that doesn't work. Not even Hyosung is that low.

[Sollyboy]

And I for one never saw the need for the protests and various other hippie activities calling for his release.

He had convictions in France and Belgium for participating in and leading terrorist networks; had been deported from Switzerland, and excluded from the UK. Never mind all that, NZ will take you... Well over $3 million of taxpayers' money has been spent on his attempts to jump the queue and bypass NZ security. Not to mention how his release will show New Zealand as a soft touch for illegal immigrants.

Anyway, it may be time for my first red rep? But I am still dying to know what people think. P.S. I'm no racist - only a realist.

Cheers.

He should have been shot thru the neck and his body harvested for organs , that sandy little butt crack has cost the tax payer about 200 bypass surgerys or 150 hip operations or untold full courses of herceptin , fuck his rights his liberty cost us too much, Id pull the trigger ,Id happily shoot him in his smug face

[oldrider]

He should have been shot thru the neck and his body harvested for organs , that sandy little butt crack has cost the tax payer about 200 bypass surgerys or 150 hip operations or untold full courses of herceptin , fuck his rights his liberty cost us too much, Id pull the trigger ,Id happily shoot him in his smug face

Interesting point that, if he was shot, who could be blamed, if he is a non person?

It would be a good point to challenge the law on.

Just as well I am not terminally ill!

It would be worth it! :yes: John.

[Grahameeboy]

Yeah im just biased as my mate had his zzr400 totalled by a Somalian Rufugee who wasnts suppose to be driving (no nz license), then when the court case came around she split to Aussie (She had been a NZ refugee for 5 years so this allowed her into up to 5 other countries).

And how many NZers, including some KB members ride when their licence is breached?

A reason for compulsory Insurance both ends.


Then there was the case with my misses when she paid NZ $10K for a 'job offer' (which fell through) to a Korean business man, who's work permit existed as he $100,000 in the bank (which gave him half the points for citizenship)

Why did she pay $10,000?

- Oh and FYI people our Hon John D. is also in this "Job" market.
Also there are dodgy immegration case handlers (one of my friends is STILL on work permit due to not paying a bribe)

Fair enough.

Having seen the other side of NZ's dark fence, i no longer think that we are the friendly, sweet, innocent country that the brochures have people to believe.

Well we are the 2nd least corrupt country in the world. Corruption has been vogue for centuries sol not new.


Not to mention that i hear more horns in Auckland in 1 day, than i heard in New York in 1 week.

You counted them?


Attitudes are very wrong in some people in NZ.

Like the rest of the world?

I feel that NZ isnt quite a dumping ground yet - more the 4 square for rest of the world (convenient). Stepping stone to Australia, UK and US for alot of people who do not have choices due to the people they are.

And Kiwi's do not use their family to get a UK passport to work in Europe etc.

Look I know what you are saying, however, it is no where near doom and gloom.

........................

[SPman]

He should have been shot thru the neck and his body harvested for organs , that sandy little butt crack has cost the tax payer about 200 bypass surgerys or 150 hip operations or untold full courses of herceptin , fuck his rights his liberty cost us too much, Id pull the trigger ,Id happily shoot him in his smug face
So much anger about someone you obviously have little knowledge or thought of.
Still, it's good to slag off about someone else, because then we don't have to look at ourselves!
Makes us feel all superior and self righteous!

[Sollyboy]

So much anger about someone you obviously have little knowledge or thought of.
Still, it's good to slag off about someone else, because then we don't have to look at ourselves!
Makes us feel all superior and self righteous!

I dont give a shit about him or his rights just the precious resources hes consumed , the reality is the money spent on him could have saved NZ tax payers lives , no ifs no buts ,no maybes thats just a fact, i would have prefered to see him dead , now its Ali Panahs turn , fuck me wheres the ending for this Pandoras box, Nz should hard line these fuckers , no paper work no entry no excuses

[jimbo600]

So much anger about someone you obviously have little knowledge or thought of.
Still, it's good to slag off about someone else, because then we don't have to look at ourselves!
Makes us feel all superior and self righteous!

Sollyboy has a point. If Zaoui didn't come here the money wasted investigating, and then defending him could have been spent on NZers

[klingon]

Sollyboy has a point. If Zaoui didn't come here the money wasted investigating, and then defending him could have been spent on NZers

Yep. If the SIS hadn't wasted all that taxpayers' money on trumped-up charges, the money could have been spent on NZers.

At some point (very early on I suspect) they knew they had got it very, very wrong. Since then they have been wasting our money on trying to save face and not look incompetent. They failed.

[oldrider]

Yep. If the SIS hadn't wasted all that taxpayers' money on trumped-up charges, the money could have been spent on NZers.

At some point (very early on I suspect) they knew they had got it very, very wrong. Since then they have been wasting our money on trying to save face and not look incompetent. They failed.

But we don't know if the charges were trumped up, we, the public and payees, don't really know anything, that's the problem.

The whole thing is a fiasco, NZ is a joke because of it. :o John

[peasea]

I dont give a shit about him or his rights just the precious resources hes consumed , the reality is the money spent on him could have saved NZ tax payers lives , no ifs no buts ,no maybes thats just a fact, i would have prefered to see him dead , now its Ali Panahs turn , fuck me wheres the ending for this Pandoras box, Nz should hard line these fuckers , no paper work no entry no excuses


Bingo, bling your way.

[peasea]

Sollyboy has a point. If Zaoui didn't come here the money wasted investigating, and then defending him could have been spent on NZers

Like I said earlier; how many hips or by-passes?
Shoot the fuck and be done with it.

[Sollyboy]

Yep. If the SIS hadn't wasted all that taxpayers' money on trumped-up charges, the money could have been spent on NZers.

At some point (very early on I suspect) they knew they had got it very, very wrong. Since then they have been wasting our money on trying to save face and not look incompetent. They failed.

Since when has the security and world perception of our country been a waste of money? believe it or not NZ needs other countrys to get by , Id like to call the aussies and yanks friends how they perceive us is important to the security and well being of this isolated turd of a country floating somewehere in the pacific, the SIS shoulda stuck to their guns and said no sandy you cant live here just cause we said so.
besides how does this piece of shit benefit our country??

[Grahameeboy]

Since when has the security and world perception of our country been a waste of money? believe it or not NZ needs other countrys to get by , Id like to call the aussies and yanks friends how they perceive us is important to the security and well being of this isolated turd of a country floating somewehere in the pacific, the SIS shoulda stuck to their guns and said no sandy you cant live here just cause we said so.
besides how does this piece of shit benefit our country??

How do you know he is a piece of shit??

[Lias]

Does this mean you think that no refugees should ever be allowed in the country?


We should only accept refugees if they meet the skilled worker and english literacy requirements. Otherwise fuck em all.

The DIA, SIS, police, etc should also have carte blanche to "just say no" to any migrant who is even suspected of ties to terrorism, organised crime, etc.

[Lias]

Bingo, bling your way.

Ditto.. I'm damn near blinged out from this thread lol.. awarded more blind in this one thread than I think I've ever given out before hehehe.

[Ewan Oozarmy]

We should only accept refugees if they meet the skilled worker and english literacy requirements. Otherwise fuck em all.

The DIA, SIS, police, etc should also have carte blanche to "just say no" to any migrant who is even suspected of ties to terrorism, organised crime, etc.

I believe all "western" countries are obliged to take a certain quota, based on it's population size, of genuine refugees. I do agree that with a population the size of NZ this has to be controlled tightly.

[Lias]

I believe all "western" countries are obliged to take a certain quota, based on it's population size, of genuine refugees. I do agree that with a population the size of NZ this has to be controlled tightly.

Bugger that sort of obligation.. The 3rd world has an obligation to keep their citizens out of our country but they fail miserably at that!

[jimbo600]

Yep. If the SIS hadn't wasted all that taxpayers' money on trumped-up charges, the money could have been spent on NZers.

At some point (very early on I suspect) they knew they had got it very, very wrong. Since then they have been wasting our money on trying to save face and not look incompetent. They failed.

Trumped up charges? You must know something we don't then. You must be either a. employed by the SIS or b. be the prime minister.

I suppose all the other countries that issued security notifications also colluded to originate "trumped up" charges too.

[caesius]

Trumped up charges? You must know something we don't then. You must be either a. employed by the SIS or b. be the prime minister.

I suppose all the other countries that issued security notifications also colluded to originate "trumped up" charges too.

I've got to agree there. The fact remains:


He had convictions in France and Belgium for participating in and leading terrorist networks; had been deported from Switzerland, and excluded from the UK.

What do you think the purpose of the SIS is? If this doesn't justify investigating then what does? Shall we dissolve the SIS? They are obviously in existence without purpose if they were not meant to make something of this.

Oh wait forget it, he has a lovely smile and to top it off he's forgiven the NZ government! Forget all the legitimate immigrants with skills that are turned away. Maybe if they destroyed their docs and shouted at the top of their voices "REFUGEE" they'd have a better chance of getting in.

Its a sad day when you have a better chance getting into NZ illegally than legally.

[SPman]

But we don't know if the charges were trumped up, we, the public and payees, don't really know anything, that's the problem.

The whole thing is a fiasco, NZ is a joke because of it. :o John

Sorry - I don't think NZ is a joke, because of this. The SIS and certain members of the Government have been seen to be the joke that they are.
People who have bought in to the whole US Neocon led "War of/on terror", might think NZ is a joke. People who beleive everything that the media and Gov. tell them, might think NZ is a joke. If you rely on your ego being maintained by macho posturing, you may think the same way.
The perceptions of many NZ'ers, of anyone from the Middle East as useless, fanatical lousy scumbags, who shouldn't be given the time of day, let alone allowed anywhere near Godzone, as people who are intent on causing murder, mayhem and mass destruction, an attitude continually (it seems) pushed, primped and postulated by sleazebag politicians and the media, is counterproductive and ultimately weakens the community.

Perhaps if "the West", stopped continually meddling greedily in Middle Eastern affairs and stopped continually playing God, we wouldn't be in the situation that has developed, but, it has and we are, so the only way to handle the situations that develop is with understanding of ALL the factors and intelligence (of BOTH types) - something that seems to have been lacking in this (and other) situations.

Zaoui was a University professor, who became an elected member of parliament in a government ousted by a military coup. As a member of a government in exile, of course he was portrayed as a subversive and attempts made by the Algerian Junta were made to discredit him and his compatriots. The fact that all the charges against him were token "slap on the wrist" quality, seems to have escaped the notice of most people, as does the fact that most of his "terrorist" compatriots have obtained residency in the USA!
As for being useless - I don't think so - he should have no trouble getting a decent job - he is intelligent and skilled.

[SPman]

Its a sad day when you have a better chance getting into NZ illegally than legally.

Sorry -as a person claiming political asylum - he came in legally!

[caesius]

Sorry -as a person claiming political asylum - he came in legally!

Cooleo. Would you suggest this to anyone you know trying to become a NZ citizen? If it's a "legit" way, why not?

[caesius]

Zaoui was a University professor, who became an elected member of parliament in a government ousted by a military coup. As a member of a government in exile, of course he was portrayed as a subversive and attempts made by the Algerian Junta were made to discredit him and his compatriots.

OK, I'll do some research...


Ahmed Zaoui (Arabic: أحمد الزاوي) is an Algerian member of the Islamic Salvation Front[1] who was convicted on terrorism-related charges in Belgium and France.

Now for more information of the Islamic Salvation Front.

Divorce Laws:

- A woman who wishes to be divorced usually needs the consent of her husband. However, most schools allow her to obtain a divorce without her husband's consent if she can show the judge that her husband is impotent. If the husband consents she does not have to pay back the dower.

- Men have the right of unilateral divorce. A divorce is effective when the man tells his wife that he is divorcing her. At this point the husband must pay the wife the "delayed" component of the dower.

Theft:

- In accordance with the Qur'an and several hadith, theft is punished by imprisonment or amputation of hands or feet, depending on the number of times it was committed and depending on the item of theft.

Adultery:

- In accordance with hadith, stoning to death is the penalty for married men and women who commit adultery.



Oh and this list could go on.

Great! Welcome him and his policies to our country!

I don't.

[Grahameeboy]

Cooleo. Would you suggest this to anyone you know trying to become a NZ citizen? If it's a "legit" way, why not?

You have to actually be a refugee silly billy.

somebody seeking safe place: somebody who seeks or takes refuge in a foreign country, especially to avoid war or persecution

Sounds like he was a Refugee.

[Grahameeboy]

OK, I'll do some research...


Now for more information of the Islamic Salvation Front.

Divorce Laws:

- A woman who wishes to be divorced usually needs the consent of her husband. However, most schools allow her to obtain a divorce without her husband's consent if she can show the judge that her husband is impotent. If the husband consents she does not have to pay back the dower.

- Men have the right of unilateral divorce. A divorce is effective when the man tells his wife that he is divorcing her. At this point the husband must pay the wife the "delayed" component of the dower.

Theft:

- In accordance with the Qur'an and several hadith, theft is punished by imprisonment or amputation of hands or feet, depending on the number of times it was committed and depending on the item of theft.

Adultery:

- In accordance with hadith, stoning to death is the penalty for married men and women who commit adultery.



Oh and this list could go on.

Great! Welcome him and his policies to our country!

I don't.

Don't criticise the Laws of other Countries.........those who cast stones.

Geeze the amount of recent complaining about our legal system and that we are going to the dogs..."lets shoot the bastards"..."lets castrate the bastards" etc..."we are too soft"...............

You may find that crime is lower because of these Laws.

Sorry, must go and enjoy living in NZ.

[mstriumph]

.............

You may find that crime is lower because of these Laws.

..................

yes - i agree - they prevent recividism

someone who has been stoned to death is NEVER likely to commit adultery again :first:

[Grahameeboy]

yes - i agree - they prevent recividism

someone who has been stoned to death is NEVER likely to commit adultery again :first:

Well they get a chance to throw some back though.

My view is that you live in a Country, you abide by their Laws so if you know that if you commit adultery, you will get stoned to death and you commit adultery then it's you own bloody fault.

Over here you commit adultery and get half the relationship property......

Now personally stoning is a waste of stones but you get my drift.

[oldrider]

Sorry - I don't think NZ is a joke, because of this. The SIS and certain members of the Government have been seen to be the joke that they are.

So many men so many opinions, I don't have enough knowledge to dispute your claims, either way, NZ looks a joke.

Perhaps if "the West", stopped continually meddling greedily in Middle Eastern affairs and stopped continually playing God, we wouldn't be in the situation that has developed, but, it has and we are, so the only way to handle the situations that develop is with understanding of ALL the factors and intelligence (of BOTH types) - something that seems to have been lacking in this (and other) situations.

The problems between Islam and the "West" (everyone else) began with the birth of Islam but I agree the USA has not been without sin in their involvement in "Middle Eastern" affairs.

As for being useless - I don't think so - he should have no trouble getting a decent job - he is intelligent and skilled.

I made no such claim!



I think you have used my quote to vent further observations on this topic, fair enough, I don't object. Cheers John.

[caesius]

Don't criticise the Laws of other Countries.........those who cast stones.

Geeze the amount of recent complaining about our legal system and that we are going to the dogs..."lets shoot the bastards"..."lets castrate the bastards" etc..."we are too soft"...............

You may find that crime is lower because of these Laws.

So do you agree with these "laws"?

Ahmed Zaoui supports these. I don't. NZ doesn't. Why is he being given preferential treatment?

Why the heck does he have to be a refugee? As SPman pointed out (I haven't checked) he is a Uni lecturer. Surely he can't be that bad off. Unless he's been participating with some particularly bad groups...Oops I think I just answered my own question...

[klingon]

So do you agree with these "laws"?

Ahmed Zaoui supports these. I don't. NZ doesn't. Why is he being given preferential treatment?

Ahmed Zaoui does not support those laws.


Why the heck does he have to be a refugee? As SPman pointed out (I haven't checked) he is a Uni lecturer. Surely he can't be that bad off. Unless he's been participating with some particularly bad groups...Oops I think I just answered my own question...

He is, indeed, a university lecturer. He is a refugee because Algeria held elections, he was elected, the ruling party refused to give up power and imprisoned and tortured him.

His case has been looked into extensively by our authorities and in 2003 they found him to be a genuine refugee - if he had returned to Algeria he would have been killed.

Personally, I'm proud of New Zealand for showing humanity to those in genuine need, regardless of what country they come from. I am glad to welcome genuine refugees to this (relatively) peaceful country, and I do what I can to help them to settle and become a productive member of society.

Having read extensively about Mr Zaoui's case, and having put my own doubts to him and his lawyers and had all my questions answered to my satisfaction, I believe he is a genuine refugee and I'm happy to welcome him here.

I would be pleased to have him and his family as neighbours, and I would be pleased to have him as a colleague if the opportunity arose.

[klingon]

Since when has the security and world perception of our country been a waste of money? believe it or not NZ needs other countrys to get by , Id like to call the aussies and yanks friends how they perceive us is important to the security and well being of this isolated turd of a country floating somewehere in the pacific, the SIS shoulda stuck to their guns and said no sandy you cant live here just cause we said so.


The security of our country is not a waste of money - it is extremely important. Which is why I get annoyed when money that should be spent on protecting us from genuine dangers is spent on keeping people like Ahmed Zaoui in prison. What a waste! Spend it on finding and stopping the real terrorists!

[avgas]

A wise person said that corruption is when someone does something, and people fight against it. Everything else is just free game.

[jimbo600]

Ah, the inevitable retort of the intellectually challenged...

Inevitable retort of those who are getting pissed off at free loading, cajoling manipulating, dangerous dickheads who view NZ as a free lunch.

Biggest threat to security is the belief that no threat exists folks.

[Jantar]

Cool it a bit you guys. I have already infracted one member for excessive and inapropriate language, and moved half a dozen posts to PD. Keep it on topic and ease up on the language please.

[SPman]

OK, I'll do some research...

Now for more information of the Islamic Salvation Front.

.....

I wouldn't rely on Wiki, too much........the entries often seem to change by the hour on most subjects, these days.......

On his religious affiliations -"Zaoui’s religious background is as a religious moderate, from three generations of Sufism on his paternal line. Politically, Zaoui and his colleagues at Algiers University were of a generation heavily influenced by the writings of the Algerian sociologist Malek Bennabi ( 1907-1973) who had sought to create a modern fusion between Islam and democracy grounded in Algerian culture.. Bennabi’s life work was to promote a form of Islamic democracy grounded in Algerian values and history. His work stands consciously apart and consistently opposed to the pan-Islamic radicalism of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, which became the wellspring of jihadism and the Wahhabi extremism of Bin Laden."

[caesius]

Quote:
Originally Posted by caesius View Post
So do you agree with these "laws"?

Ahmed Zaoui supports these. I don't. NZ doesn't. Why is he being given preferential treatment?
Ahmed Zaoui does not support those laws.

He supports them insofar as he belongs to a group that supports them.

SPman, Islam is Islam. Whichever spin you put on it the Koran contains a lot of stuff most westerners would strongly disagree with. They just don't know it.

[SPman]

He supports them insofar as he belongs to a group that supports them.

SPman, Islam is Islam. Whichever spin you put on it the Koran contains a lot of stuff most westerners would strongly disagree with. They just don't know it.
One could argue, that the Bible contains a lot of most westerners would disagree with - or certainly don't practice. The Koran also contains a lot of stuff that should be practised, but is often not. I guess, like all religions, it often all comes down to the way it is practiced. It could be said that the brand of Islam being bandied and threatened at the West, is the Islamic equivalent of Bible belt Baptists, but, lets not go there - the Scottish thread looms........:shit:

[riffer]

The thread wasn't ruined by the removal of your post Steve. In fact I think the post ran the risk of ruining a topic which its important to discuss.

Try posting your opinion again using less than three expletives in the sentence and it will stay in the thread I'm sure. Your opinion is certainly valid and I'm sure you've got a point.

[Scouse]

The thread wasn't ruined by the removal of your post Steve. In fact I think the post ran the risk of ruining a topic which its important to discuss.

Try posting your opinion again using less than three expletives in the sentence and it will stay in the thread I'm sure. Your opinion is certainly valid and I'm sure you've got a point.Thanks Riffer for your wise opinion I still dont think that it waranted an infraction from jantar though like I said an infraction for swearing smacks of jantar trying to impose his own beliefs on to me and is disopointing to see.

Cheers

[riffer]

LOL. wise. Don't let my mother hear you say that. She's still telling me I'm gonna kill myself one day on "that stupid thing you ride"!.

Seriously though mate, the rules are quite clear on the whole swearing thing. Unfortunately we all break them. You know if you swear in a bar-room conversation and the police overhear it you can still be done for offensive language... and your post was a bit dodgy. :)

Back to the topic at hand though. I'm so in two minds over the Zaoui thing. I'm sure we are not hearing everything about this story.

On the one hand the SIS look stupid. But heck, they can't say why they were worried in case they show their hand...

and someone will use that very thing to get in for really bad reasons.

I like my safe little country.

[oldrider]

I like my safe little country.

That belief in it's self took on a whole new meaning after 1999! (IMO) :mellow: John.

[Lias]

He's an immigrant from a "non-western" country
He's a muslim with ties to terrorism
He doesnt posess particualrly good english language skills
He's a member of a political party that advocates barbaric sharia-esque laws
He's been excluded from several first world countries
He's been convicted of using false passports, and arrived in NZ on yet another false passport.
He's been convicted of belonging to a group which commits terrorist acts
Zauoi _personally_ didnt commit any terrorist acts, but his associates were terrorists
Zauoi's death sentence in Algeria has been withdrawn under an amensty, which no longer makes him a genuine refugee

Any of those reasons should by themselves be reason enough to refuse to accept him.

[caesius]

He's a member of a political party that advocates barbaric sharia-esque laws

Quite right.

[riffer]

A similar claim could be made against Brian Tamaki, but this country allows him to get rich and set up his own political party.

[caesius]

A similar claim could be made against Brian Tamaki, but this country allows him to get rich and set up his own political party.

Born and breed here. On second thoughts who cares lets chuck him out too.

[riffer]

Born and breed here. On second thoughts who cares lets chuck him out too.


My point exactly. You have no idea how many I'd like to get rid of.

Perhaps the SIS could start at home first.

[caesius]

My point exactly. You have no idea how many I'd like to get rid of.

Perhaps the SIS could start at home first.

If you're born in NZ it's your right to live here. No matter how much of an asshole you are. But if you're an asshole from overseas...

[avgas]

"(1)And how many NZers, including some KB members ride when their licence is breached?
A reason for compulsory Insurance both ends.

(2)Why did she pay $10,000?

(3)You counted them?

(4)Attitudes are very wrong in some people in NZ.
Like the rest of the world?

(5)Look I know what you are saying, however, it is no where near doom and gloom."

(1) Agreebly yes - but in saying that, most kiwibikers would not skip the country to pay for repairs to a vehicle. Being NZ and all.....Somalia must be a different place altogether i believe.

(2) For a job offer, due to having a qualification, she had to get a job in that area (Commerce/Economics). At the time no one was giving her a job as there was too much effort to organise a work permit, and it was easier to hire a NZ citizen graduate. We got desparate - and i had a moral standing on marriage. So that only left the underground of NZ immigration.

(3) Not really - it was actually obvious. Its kinda sad really as there were atleast 3 times the volume of traffic as well. Seemed the only people who were agro and used the horns in NY were the yellow cabs.

(4) NZ used to pride itself as being the top of the table for this kind of stuff. Its interesting to know that we are now level with the rest of the world

(5) Doom and Gloom, No.........But neither is a 5mm Melanoma.

[SPman]

He's an immigrant from a "non-western" country
True
He's a muslim with ties to terrorism
False
He doesnt posess particualrly good english language skills
particualrly?
He's a member of a political party that advocates barbaric sharia-esque laws - barbaric to Berbers? - not particularly
He's been excluded from several first world countries - which ones?
He's been convicted of using false passports, and arrived in NZ on yet another false passport. - not unusual
He's been convicted of belonging to a group which commits terrorist acts
He's a Republican?
Zauoi _personally_ didnt commit any terrorist acts, but his associates were terrorists - according to the people who were opposed to them
Zauoi's death sentence in Algeria has been withdrawn under an amensty, which no longer makes him a genuine refugee - an amnesty that isn't worth the paper it should be written on

Any of those reasons should by themselves be reason enough to refuse to accept him. - Point no 3 would exclude half the population of NZ for a starter!

Enough of this thread. Zaoui is out, people won't change their opinions, and I've got another brew to put down - need to lay in all the stocks I can before summer - it's gonna be long and hot!

[avgas]

Has he applied for a Job yet? how can he afford to live???
To me that makes the difference between an immigrant and a loser who shouldn't be here.

[peasea]

particualrly ??????
Ahahahahahaha, rofl, crying, it hurts.........:rofl:

Arrgh! It still fuckin' hurts.

[peasea]

Has he applied for a Job yet? how can he afford to live???
To me that makes the difference between an immigrant and a loser who shouldn't be here.

What would he want one of those for, there's the state to fork out for all the expenses.

[Sanx]

What would he want one of those for, there's the state to fork out for all the expenses.

Ignoring Zaoui as an individual, not all refugees are dole bludgers. Many refugees do take a little while (by which I mean a few months, max) to find their feet - they arrive with absolutely nothing in most cases - but after that, they feel honoured to be accepted by the host country and then do work their little foreign socks off.

Yes - I do know a few refugee families. And all of them are extremely hard workers who after a few years have saved up enough to buy their own houses, put kids through college and so on. The dole bludgers by and large are the ones born in this country or those boen in countries that have an automatic right to lice and work in this country (i.e. the islands).

[avgas]

Mate is so common they have their own unemployment group:
"Regional employment initiatives can be targeted at priority client population groups,
which differ from region to region and may include Māori, Pacific peoples, clients
with a disability or illness, youth, migrants and refugees, mature, and sole parents."
Rest can be seen here (http://www.ssc.govt.nz/upload/downloadable_files/MDS_-_Briefing_paper_-_Regional_Employment_Services.pdf)
I'm not say that every Refugee is the devil, but like i mentioned earlier.....work or leave. There are plenty of Jobs here for even unskilled migrants

[caesius]

Well his family are here now, quite a few of them by the looks. He (and they) are here to stay now, if they integrate into NZ society and contribute to it then good on them.

Saw a good post about this on the PCWorld forums though;

This whole case exposes the hypocrisy in many people.

The Algerian government of which Mr Zaoui was an elected member was overthrown by a military coup; yet so-called supporters of democracy seem to think that is OK.

Well done the Zauoi's - you win. Lucky the daddy Zaoui tried ditching his stuff here and not Australia though. I think that would have been an entirely different outcome.

[caesius]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10472424
Here's the article.

Just had a good read, bits that pissed me off though:

Mr Zaoui and his wife Leila Tidjani have been apart for 11 of their 23 years of marriage.


The last time Ahmed Zaoui hugged his son Youssef, the little boy was 4. Yesterday, Youssef, now 9, could not stop hugging his father and beaming.

No one was stopping him seeing them, he was free to leave NZ, makes it sound like (and a lot of people will believe) he was being held "captive" by NZ.