FYI - March Against Racism. 23rd October, Wellington.

[Ms Piggy]

Hey All,
This is just for your info. If you want to get into a debate about it go right ahead.


March Against Racism

Date: Saturday 23rd October 2004, 12 midday.

Start Venue: Te Papa, Wellington.
Info about who is organising it: http://mca.enzyme.org.nz/ Multi-Cultural Aotearoa. Personally I don't necessarily agree with their philosophies but I am against racism. It's that "latte sipping, turtle neck wearing, limp wristed, liberal" part of me :whistle:

[rodgerd]

I wonder if we'll get another article from David McClouglin complaining about the "facist liberals" opressing the National Front.

[Blakamin]

awww.... I'm hoping for a march against JAFA's moving to welly.... they're a race arent they?? Jafa's????

[jrandom]

March Against Racism...

Far as I'm concerned, it's all good, so long as they's got some niggas and gooks representin'.


I am against racism

Always ready to take the controversial positions, eh CSL? ;)

[jrandom]

I wonder if we'll get another article from David McClouglin complaining about the "facist liberals"

Well, if you did, you could bet the pedantrists would descend en masse, pointing out that there's no such thing as a 'facist'.

[Hitcher]

Well, if you did, you could bet the pedantrists would descend en masse, pointing out that there's no such thing as a 'facist'.
Without wanting to categorise myself by "descending" on this thread, "facism" is generally a term some people use to categorise other people with political views that differ from theirs...

Arguably the PC (politically correct, in case I offend any geeks) brigade we've all come to know and love practice their own special form of facism.

Lazy journalists often use cliched epithets: e.g. "childless Helen Clark", "ageing rocker Rod Stewart", etc. They should be burned at the stake...

[jrandom]

"facism" is generally...

But "facism" isn't. You did pick up on the fact that I was lowering myself to the level of spelling correction, didn't you?

And yes, I doubt many people are familiar with the particular brand of politics that is rightly branded as Fascism.


Lazy journalists

Redundant adjective.

[rodgerd]

Without wanting to categorise myself by "descending" on this thread, "facism" is generally a term some people use to categorise other people with political views that differ from theirs...


It's a poke at my spelling, not the existence or otherwise of fascists 8).



Arguably the PC (politically correct, in case I offend any geeks) brigade we've all come to know and love practice their own special form of facism.


Can we retire that term? Whining about "political correctness" has become the new political correctness.

And fascism, as a political philosophy is a mile away from anything that might be identified as PC. Ask the man who first put it into practise (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/mussolini-fascism.html).

[Ghost Lemur]

Well, if you did, you could bet the pedantrists would descend en masse, pointing out that there's no such thing as a 'facist'.

Of course you would't be one of those people would you jr? :Pokey: :bleh:

[Ms Piggy]

Far as I'm concerned, it's all good, so long as they's got some niggas and gooks representin'.
You've spotted some National Front posters haven't you...but they're not racists ya know!


Always ready to take the controversial positions, eh CSL? ;)

ALWAYS :2thumbsup

[Hitcher]

But "facism" isn't. You did pick up on the fact that I was lowering myself to the level of spelling correction, didn't you?
Live by the sword, die by the sword...


Redundant adjective.
Oyxmoron or tautology?

[Hitcher]

You've spotted some National Front posters haven't you...but they're not racists ya know!
"Geez, how was I to know that those guys behind me in the photo were wearing swastikas and doing that Nazi salute thing?"

[Skyryder]

I see in the Press that the National Front are going to be there too. They want to hold talks with the Maori Party and see what they both have in common. I wonder if the Destiny Curch will be there.

Skyryder

PS We are all of 'one' race: homo sapien. Hope that is spelt correctly.

[Ms Piggy]

"Geez, how was I to know that those guys behind me in the photo were wearing swastikas and doing that Nazi salute thing?"
Yeah, yeah, yeah. :rolleyes:

[jrandom]

tautology

Thingy. Yes.


Oyxmoron

Careful where you put that sword...

[StoneChucker]

We are all of 'one' race: homo sapien.
I quote Ali G "I aint no homo.... whatever, but I aint no homo" :killingme

Start Venue: Te Papa, Wellington.
Thanks for the heads up, note to self, stay away from here, traffic jam certainty :sneaky2:
My feelings on protest are somewhat bleak. I wish it did work, but just before the US went to war with Iraq (not a political post here, just an example), 2 million people protested in the US alone, with millions more world wide to stop bush going ahead. And it changed nothing, apart from holding up traffic (like the stupid Hikoi (sp.?) over the bridge recently.
NOW don't get me wrong, I'm not all bitter lol, I just wish it DID something, and I'm all for something that does. I'll be with you in spirit though :) This is ofcourse my current feelings, not necessarily the truth, so don't let me put anyone off please. (I mean, look at Martin Luther King, there's always some hope)

PS: Stay away from the "everyone wears black shirts, and chants with their arms up in the air - It's not a good look (no names mentioned lol)
Dave

[Ms Piggy]

I'll be with you in spirit though :) This is ofcourse my current feelings, not necessarily the truth, so don't let me put anyone off please. (I mean, look at Martin Luther King, there's always some hope)

That's the way I look at it Dave.

There is something cliched saying that goes "If you stand for nothing you'll fall for anything." I guess for me personally it's important to draw lines about where I stand on this issue and what I believe. I think by doing that I will make a difference. Idealistic? Definitely! But I am an avid beliver in equity & equality and it aint gonna change if I do nothing. Not a dig btw, just my belief.

[Jackrat]

Wonder what their trying to soften us up for this time :shifty:

[Ms Piggy]

Wonder what their trying to soften us up for this time :shifty:
Who Jackrat?

[Jackrat]

Who Jackrat?

You and your mates.
It's not an equal world,get over it.

[Ms Piggy]

It's not an equal world,get over it.
No. I can't.

[jimbo600]

I quote Ali G "I aint no homo.... whatever, but I aint no homo" :killingme

Thanks for the heads up, note to self, stay away from here, traffic jam certainty :sneaky2:
My feelings on protest are somewhat bleak. I wish it did work, but just before the US went to war with Iraq (not a political post here, just an example), 2 million people protested in the US alone, with millions more world wide to stop bush going ahead. And it changed nothing, apart from holding up traffic (like the stupid Hikoi (sp.?) over the bridge recently.
NOW don't get me wrong, I'm not all bitter lol, I just wish it DID something, and I'm all for something that does. I'll be with you in spirit though :) This is ofcourse my current feelings, not necessarily the truth, so don't let me put anyone off please. (I mean, look at Martin Luther King, there's always some hope)

PS: Stay away from the "everyone wears black shirts, and chants with their arms up in the air - It's not a good look (no names mentioned lol)
Dave

All the farmers down here protested against the fart tax and managed to stop that being ratified.

[StoneChucker]

All the farmers down here protested against the fart tax and managed to stop that being ratified.
Ok, fair enough, but there is a slight difference in likelyhood of protesting making a difference between these two. If they wanted to put speed bumps all the way up the Taka's, I would hapily go and protest, hell I might even lay on the road and stop the bulldozers.
BUT, would I haul myself out of bed to fight racism, inequality or genocide? No. Does the destruction of the rainforrest, extinction of MANY species of animal, inhumane and uncivilised treatment of animals in asia etc... make me sick? YES, but it's unrealistic, in MY opinion, to protest about it, since it's not going to change until everyone concerned comes to a drastic realisation (through some major event, which I fear may be too late in some cases).

I think one of the main reasons these things won't change until then boils down to money. There's money to be made off these things, people are greedy and as such don't want to stop making money.

But, as I said, don't let me stop anyone going out and protesting, there is ofcourse a chance it will make a difference, and if/when it does, I will be the first to thank those who were more diligent than I.
Dave

[FROSTY]

awww.... I'm hoping for a march against JAFA's moving to welly.... they're a race arent they?? Jafa's????
Bloody hell You're in for it now--Jaffas ar round orange things with choc in the middle--hmm then again :gob:

[jrandom]

... I might even lay on the road and stop the bulldozers.

Just make sure it's not on Thursday.

[Hitcher]

I might even lay on the road and stop the bulldozers.
As my Dad once said to me: "Young Hitcher, if you really want to drive tanks I won't stand in your way!"

[badlieutenant]

I quote Ali G "I aint no homo.... whatever, but I aint no homo" :killingme

Thanks for the heads up, note to self, stay away from here, traffic jam certainty :sneaky2:
My feelings on protest are somewhat bleak. I wish it did work, but just before the US went to war with Iraq (not a political post here, just an example), 2 million people protested in the US alone, with millions more world wide to stop bush going ahead. And it changed nothing, apart from holding up traffic (like the stupid Hikoi (sp.?) over the bridge recently.
NOW don't get me wrong, I'm not all bitter lol, I just wish it DID something, and I'm all for something that does. I'll be with you in spirit though :) This is ofcourse my current feelings, not necessarily the truth, so don't let me put anyone off please. (I mean, look at Martin Luther King, there's always some hope)

PS: Stay away from the "everyone wears black shirts, and chants with their arms up in the air - It's not a good look (no names mentioned lol)
Dave


The protest's that your refering to were the largest ever staged by humanity.
Only the press were all busy and they missed it. lucky for the world we all watch abc, cbs and that really good one fox. (Im sure it was a genuine mistake calling florida's vote count in favour of ol Bushy)(helps to have rely's in the right place tho)
Isnt that the biggest achievment of the news media? We are all cynics now and dont believe bugger all of what we do hear and know that what we think means bugger all as well.

[Ms Piggy]

Ok, fair enough, but there is a slight difference in likelyhood of protesting making a difference between these two. If they wanted to put speed bumps all the way up the Taka's, I would hapily go and protest, hell I might even lay on the road and stop the bulldozers.
BUT, would I haul myself out of bed to fight racism, inequality or genocide? No. Does the destruction of the rainforrest, extinction of MANY species of animal, inhumane and uncivilised treatment of animals in asia etc... make me sick? YES, but it's unrealistic, in MY opinion, to protest about it, since it's not going to change until everyone concerned comes to a drastic realisation (through some major event, which I fear may be too late in some cases).

I think one of the main reasons these things won't change until then boils down to money. There's money to be made off these things, people are greedy and as such don't want to stop making money.

But, as I said, don't let me stop anyone going out and protesting, there is ofcourse a chance it will make a difference, and if/when it does, I will be the first to thank those who were more diligent than I.
Dave
I can see what you are saying Stoney but maybe a example that relates more to the up and coming march against racism is when the blacks in America stopped using public transport. That was started by 1 woman refusing to give her seat on the bus: Rosa Parks. http://library.thinkquest.org/J0112391/rosa_parks.htm

[jrandom]

Rosa Parks

Weeeeell. She didn't exactly create the civil rights movement all by herself, you know. She just became a poster child at the crux and flashpoint of an inevitable flood of societal opinion (I like my metaphors shaken, not stirred). *Someone* had to step into those shoes.

In any case, blacks in the '50s and '60s USA were fighting against an judicially and socially entrenched system of race distinction. We have nothing similar to overturn (unless you consider a country founded on a treaty of subordinated citizenship and/or mutual sovereignty, depending on how much dope you're smoking as you read it, between two ethnic groups to be a racist state).

< puts up sandbags, straps on Kevlar helmet and asbestos longjohns >

[Lou Girardin]

March against racism?
Is that some sort of National Party anti-treaty thing?

[badlieutenant]

isnt israel the worst for humnitarian equality at the moment ? What other country on earth would be allowed to pursue the creation of a "pure israel state"
sounds a bit like.........fas........oops zionism :D
interesting observation made by rabbi
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/020509/2002050924.html

[Ms Piggy]

Weeeeell. She didn't exactly create the civil rights movement all by herself, you know. She just became a poster child at the crux and flashpoint of an inevitable flood of societal opinion (I like my metaphors shaken, not stirred). *Someone* had to step into those shoes.

In any case, blacks in the '50s and '60s USA were fighting against an judicially and socially entrenched system of race distinction. We have nothing similar to overturn (unless you consider a country founded on a treaty of subordinated citizenship and/or mutual sovereignty, depending on how much dope you're smoking as you read it, between two ethnic groups to be a racist state).

< puts up sandbags, straps on Kevlar helmet and asbestos longjohns >
Yeah I wasn't saying she did start the civil rights movement, I was trying to find Stoney an example that maybe, in his eyes, was a little bit more applicable that Jimbo750's fart tax protest one (which I btw, thought was good). Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat for some white folk did make a difference. Therefore she was 1 person who made a difference, that in turn encouraged other blacks not to give up their seats and not to take public transport.

You know what I think about the Treaty my dear Jrandom :buggerd: *siiiiiiiiiigh* As I originally stated:

I am against racism. It's that "latte sipping, turtle neck wearing, limp wristed, liberal" part of me :whistle:

Now I need a packet of Toffee Pops!

[jrandom]

You know what I think about the Treaty my dear Jrandom

As a matter of fact, I don't think we've ever covered your precise views.

My post above was more than 50% trollage, in any case; I don't have a fully formed opinion on the Treaty. Pity you're not in Ocklind, we could do a Treaty-based Galbraiths session.

[Hitcher]

As a matter of fact, I don't think we've ever covered your precise views.

My post above was more than 50% trollage, in any case; I don't have a fully formed opinion on the Treaty. Pity you're not in Ocklind, we could do a Treaty-based Galbraiths session.
Maybe we could morph the Scottish Thread to cover Te Tiriti and other similar matters to which there is no answer...

[Ms Piggy]

As a matter of fact, I don't think we've ever covered your precise views.

My post above was more than 50% trollage, in any case; I don't have a fully formed opinion on the Treaty. Pity you're not in Ocklind, we could do a Treaty-based Galbraiths session.

Ahhhhh - my apologies. See here, here and here. http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=2866&highlight=hikoi

[Drunken Monkey]

PS We are all of 'one' race: homo sapien. Hope that is spelt correctly.

[cue KB patented pedantic rant:]

Actually, 'we' are not. We ARE all of one species, homo sapiens. Race/breed/stock/strain are used to describe differences of phylogney within a species group. The terms are technically interchangeable, but are usually applied in the following context:
race = for humans
breed/stock = usually just for for animals
strain = anything, although often plants

For example: Compare with the domesticated dog. Your average pet dogs are all of the species canis familiaris, but as you probably know, breed differentiates the types, e.g. Labradors, Alsatians, Poodles, etc... All of these types can reproduce viable offspring (hence they are the same breed), but have noticeably different physiological traits.

Race is to humans, as breed is to dogs.

End lecture.

(After spending many years of my academic life in biological sciences, I thought I better clear this up.)

[Ms Piggy]

Just a little reminder for anyone who feels lead. :yeah:

[Ms Piggy]

For those who might be interested the march was really great, it felt like a very positive thing to do. I reckon there was maybe about 2000 people - but don't quote me on that cos I am hopeless at counting numbers.

Anyway we started at Te Papa, walked along the water front, along part of Aotea Quay and then turned up onto Lambton Quay down to Parliament.

By the time we arrive at Parliament all the National Front had gone down to the Railway Station, so there wasn't any sort of confrontation. I was kinda glad of that b/c it could've turned quite nasty and there was potential for violence. And at the end of the day the National Front have as much right to put their point of view across as anyone - freedom of speech.

Apparently a group of anarchists and 'fairies against fascism' had been down at Parliament giving the National Front guys a hard time. I also heard one report that they had about a fifth of the people that were part of the anti racism march.

There were some very creative posters, including: "Fuck white supremacy" (my personal favvy), "Celebrate Diversity", "Skin Heads are so 10 years ago" and others that I can't recall. There were lots of photos being taken so I'm guessing I'll get to see some and no doubt it will be on the news tonight.

[Hitcher]

Power to the people!

[James Deuce]

isnt israel the worst for humnitarian equality at the moment ? What other country on earth would be allowed to pursue the creation of a "pure israel state"
sounds a bit like.........fas........oops zionism :D
interesting observation made by rabbi
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/020509/2002050924.html


I don't actually have any patience for this argument at all. There is NO European derived or influenced culture that has any moral or ethical basis to actually criticise 50 years of Israeli settlement in "Palestine" (there has never been a nation called Palestine or people referred to as Palestinian) or get out the tote board and add up the deaths caused by the modern Israeli state.

We simply cannot take the moral high ground.

We should protest deaths on BOTH sides with equal fervour, and rather than allowing governments to support one "side" over the other we should demand that our governments act like responsible grown ups and work to provide a solution. The first step was taken by a red neck and former Israeli hardliner. If they can work out a treaty between Israel and Egypt, then why can't the leaders of the "free" world, who have been released from the economic shackles of nuclear detterence sort it out?

The middle east in general stands to lose a great deal if they don't sort out the Israeli "issue" as the biggest threat to stability in the middle east isn't oil, it's drinking water, and Israel has developed very efficient methods for desalinating sea water , and storing and piping fresh water.

For those of you who think that Palestinian children being killed in crossfire is horrible, think of the pogroms against jews that raged across Europe for a thousand years. The practice of lining jewish families up next to a trench that they dug themselves and then killing them and pushing the bodies in started with Richard the Lionheart. If you throw rocks or molotov cocktails at a tank after being warned to go away you have to take responsibility for that.

[Ms Piggy]

Power to the people!
Yeah it felt pretty good - although the stuff I saw on the tv tonight wasn't so crash hot! :mellow: That was all stuff that happened before the march participants arrived and then the media were trying to whip up more hysteria by inferring it would be dangerous in the streets of Wellington tonight.

[StoneChucker]

more hysteria by inferring it would be dangerous in the streets of Wellington tonight
There was, but I made sure "the danger" went home round midnight :bleh:

Good on you for marching btw :first:

PS: SO... you wanted to get back early to check KB then :bleh: Same :lol: (not really)

[rodgerd]

Yeah it felt pretty good - although the stuff I saw on the tv tonight wasn't so crash hot! :mellow: That was all stuff that happened before the march participants arrived and then the media were trying to whip up more hysteria by inferring it would be dangerous in the streets of Wellington tonight.

TVNZ seemed to be running adverts for the National Front. I was unimpressed by their coverage, even allowing for the fact that a stoush between two packs of twats sells better than the several thousand folks who ambled along to parliament.

[Ms Piggy]

There was, but I made sure "the danger" went home round midnight :bleh:

Good on you for marching btw :first:

PS: SO... you wanted to get back early to check KB then :bleh: Same :lol: (not really)

:lol: Very funny.

Actually I was up waiting for my dog who had run off :brick:

[Ms Piggy]

TVNZ seemed to be running adverts for the National Front. I was unimpressed by their coverage, even allowing for the fact that a stoush between two packs of twats sells better than the several thousand folks who ambled along to parliament.
Yeah that was my feeling too but, then again the media are gonna want to portray what they consider the "most" newsworthy (i.e. controversial and dramatic) part of any story anyway.

Were you there rodgerd? I saw a guy walking along in the march with a helmet & m/b jacket on, I was gonna say 'Hi' but wasn't sure if I'd just end up sounding like a fruit.