What is it with the scooter mentality?

[Bulldog]

Every time I drive past a scooter rider wearing shorts and tshirt and a soup bowl helmet I cringe. I constantly harp on about it in the car with the mrs but it simply blows me away. Have any of these scooter riders ended up sliding down the tarmac or run into a car yet?! I think the scooter industry is to blame for advertising them as such with chics wearing skirts etc. It would seem this is how they are being sold as a more 'carefree' mode of transport than a motorbike. Check this... http://www.nzgirl.co.nz/articles/8324

If my daughter ever gets a scooter she'll be wearing full kit for when that blind numb nuts pulls out in front of her.

A quick search on the net brings up all the attached images. I think I know where the problem lies. Perhaps I should upload the pics from a couple I know who fell off their scooter two up while in fiji....nasty gravel rash.

Am I the only one who thinks Scooters are portrayed too lightly, as in you don't have to wear protective gear because you're not going as fast. It's MAD!!!

[Grub]

Good point, well made.

I guess the only thing we can do is chat to the riders if we get the chance (usually when parking up). The old "... this person I know who fell off ..."

[Finn]

I think it's called "freedom of choice". Something we are all losing too fast.

[Jantar]

Here in Alexandra, I have often seen a particular young lady riding a 50cc scooter with no gear other than a helmet. It frustrates me so much that I'm tempted next time I see her to suggest she follow me to the bike shop and I'll buy her a pair of gloves. Maybe she'll then see the advantage of gear and start getting herself a jacket etc.

[ManDownUnder]

I love the safety tip - "Just make sure you take all the usual precautions like a brightly coloured scooter to make sure everyone can see you."

Re Finn's freedom of choice. There's choice and ignorance. Choice kinda implies you know the consequences of your actions - the advice given (above being more than typical of the article) limits that knowledge... and ability to choose.

The article is promoting ignorance.

[Grub]

I think it's called "freedom of choice". Something we are all losing too fast.

Or ignorance of the consequences. So when it comes to choice, I choose for my ACC levies to not keep going up because these people need long rehabilitation and skin grafts ... so I choose to try and educate if I can.

[Finn]

Or ignorance of the consequences. So when it comes to choice, I choose for my ACC levies to not keep going up because these people need long rehabilitation and skin grafts ... so I choose to try and educate if I can.

That's lame Grub. How much to you pay in ACC levies per annum.

[Bulldog]

I'm not sure I agree with the freedom of choice. You know we all pay when you grind your knees to the bone and can't work for 12 months with skin and bone grafts. That being by ACC for surgery and taxes for your sickness benefit.

If you're willing to sign away all these things then cool go ahead and have your freedom.

Perhaps that's the answer? We'll give you the freedom to wear no protective gear if you sign a waiver that says you will pay from your own pocket all the costs associated and if you can't work becuase of your injuries that you won't ask for assistance from the government or should I say us? Whadya reckon? :girlfight:

[WarlockNZ]

Perhaps that's the answer? We'll give you the freedom to wear no protective gear if you sign a waiver that says you will pay from your own pocket all the costs associated and if you can't work becuase of your injuries that you won't ask for assistance from the government or should I say us? Whadya reckon? :girlfight:

What he said!!!

[Grub]

That's lame Grub. How much to you pay in ACC levies per annum.

Currently $1,690.88 plus whatever the figure is for a bike as part of the registration fee

[AnotherLeon]

I canned off my nifty 50 when I was 17, with just jeans, sweatshirt, helmet. OUchies.

Now (many years older) I wear full face helmet, gloves, armoured jacket. I might look a bit overkill on a scooter, but I want to remain attached to my skin thanks very much.

[Finn]

Currently $1,690.88 plus whatever the figure is for a bike as part of the registration fee

How do you figure that out?

[Bulldog]

By running a business you get charged ACC levies. It sucks until you need it. :angry2:

[bobsmith]

I'm not sure I agree with the freedom of choice. You know we all pay when you grind your knees to the bone and can't work for 12 months with skin and bone grafts. That being by ACC for surgery and taxes for your sickness benefit.

If you're willing to sign away all these things then cool go ahead and have your freedom.

Perhaps that's the answer? We'll give you the freedom to wear no protective gear if you sign a waiver that says you will pay from your own pocket all the costs associated and if you can't work becuase of your injuries that you won't ask for assistance from the government or should I say us? Whadya reckon? :girlfight:

Someone who doesn't wear a helmet and dies in a crash costs ACC far less than someone wearing a full kit and gets maimed for life....

Just my 2 cents... hang on.. I mean 10 cents....

[RantyDave]

[finn said "losing freedom"] Or ignorance of the consequences.
It's ignorance ... and a cultural thing. Scooters are more viewed as a bicycle with an engine than a modified version of motorbike. Certainly when I had my 50 I rode like a twat, and I rode my mountain bike round London (without a helmet) in an extra twatty fashion. It was only when I started riding bikes and came into contact with something that halfway resembles a safety culture ... in as much as "mate, that's going to hurt like a bastard" can be described a safety culture ... that it struck me exactly how badly I could have been injured doing this.

I think bike shops can be at least partially to blame. Knowing nothing about bikes at all I wandered into Sawyers, many moons ago, asked for a helmet for a scooter and was recommended an open face lid. I think if newbies were at least given cause to consider whether or not some cheap cordura and a proper helmet would be a good idea then many more might take to it.

Dave

[bobsmith]

Now (many years older) I wear full face helmet, gloves, armoured jacket. I might look a bit overkill on a scooter, but I want to remain attached to my skin thanks very much.

Not at all. My Fiancee also rides a scooter and always wears a full kit of safety gear when going out. Of course with the scooter doing 120km/hr on the motorway it really isn't much different than a bike except that it handles worse than a bike and brakes worse as well...

[Chickadee]

Shame they don't make all two wheeled riders do a basic handling and the standard gear should be compulsary.

I see scooter riders wobbling along on the left handside of the lane trying to share with cars, no jackets, no trousers, no boots - just a helmet. You'd think getting bugs splatting on their clothes would make them think twice about wearing something to keep their outfit clean at least.

I'm sure there are a good few scooter riders that do take the right precautions with gear, but I see far too many out there that do the just helmet number.

Whens the govt going to stop with the 50cc okay without a bike license! You can still get mega f*cked up at low speeds if you have an accident. You need greater skill to ride something with 2 wheels (vs 4).

[UberRhys]

Every time I drive past a scooter rider wearing shorts and tshirt and a soup bowl helmet I cringe.

Important to note that it isn't just scooters, it's bikes as well. But yes there are more moped riders out there that are seen commuting in there short skirts, shorts, no jackets or gloves.

The "she'll be right" attitude amoungst us that we grew up with impairs our ability to see straight sometimes, and learning the hard way is usually how the lesson is learnt.

I personally haven't had my big wake-up yet, but I am prepared for it.


Am I the only one who thinks Scooters are portrayed too lightly, as in you don't have to wear protective gear because you're not going as fast. It's MAD!!!

This comes down to owner responsibility I guess. New scooters, motorbikes, quads etc... come with owners manuals which go over personal safety albiet briefly. Maybe the Basic Handling course should be inclusive of all 2 wheeled motorised vehicles and safety can be covered at the same time. In addition this will give the basic skills for all riders, from mopeds to big-ass cruisers and everything between.

[Pogo2]

Those that wear the minimum legal requirement ie helmet and others (like myself) who wear the full kit. Being stupid is not only the perogitive of scooter riders - how many motorcyclists do you also see wearing insufficient or non existant gear. In my mind there is no difference between binning at 50kph on a bike or a scoot, the results are pretty much the same. Also you cannot legislate against lack of common sense -we will all agree that the government had tried that in the past.

Seeing poorly equipped scooter riders is as frustrating for the well equipped scooterist as much as it is for bikers (if in fact they even care). Regardless I do not know what the solution is. Is it the role of the motorcycle industry and others (perhaps even using KB as a channel for example) to educate those new to the fold that a scoot is much dangerous as any other form of motorised travel and not a carefree mode of transport that is currently being portrayed.

Surely better the educate than resusitate!:clap:

[klingon]

I'm sure it us a cultural thing - we have different expectatons of scooter riders than we do of motorbike riders. Yes, you see bikers riding around in T-shirts and shorts in summer... but we tend to look at them and frown or cringe because we can imagine the consequences. With scooter riders it just seems to be accepted as the norm.

I originally intended to get a scooter rather than a bike, but after several conversations with bikers I went for the bike option. The only advantages for getting a scooter were:
a) I could ride it without a license
b) I could ride it in my normal clothes - no protective gear

Then the rational side of my brain took over and I realised I was going to CHOOSE to have proper training and protective gear no matter what I rode, so I got a bike.

[Maha]

Perhaps I should upload the pics from a couple I know who fell off their scooter two up while in fiji....nasty gravel rash.
Am I the only one who thinks Scooters are portrayed too lightly, as in you don't have to wear protective gear because you're not going as fast. It's MAD!!!

Ever tried wearing full leathers while riding a scooter in Fiji ? Having just returned from Rarotonga, there is no way i will post pics of what we were wearing while out and about on scooters. Island open road speed of 40kph....while in Rome bla bla. Heaps riding 2up (tourists) looks uncomfortable and not mention damn funny. There are Thousands od scooters in Raro and a few hundered cars i guess and everyone is shorts/jandels/cap/shirt. Some even tie thier youngsters on the the back....i would not however, ride a scooter to far here in NZ without at least jeans on....:whistle:

[cynna]

most cyclists go faster then scooters - u dont see them wearing leather pants and jackets............

[inlinefour]

I think it's called "freedom of choice". Something we are all losing too fast.

In this case if some twat wants to risk loosing some skin, so be it.

Middle of summer, a young lass rides by in barely more than the crash helmet. I look (you don't?) and think, that a waste.

But then again, I tend to go downhill in my wheelchair at speed at times. Have a t-shirt & shorts on and shoes on. At times while I was in ChCh, I was managing to get pretty close to the speeds that these scooters can do.
Of course I run the risk of getting a bollocking from those who care, thats fine.
But if its coming from those who think they have the right tell me about his/her opinion? They can fuck off.

Edit: This ignorance belief might be true for some, but to believe that everyone who does this is ignorant about the consequences, is truely an ignorant belief in itself. I've had a few small doses and one large dose of road rash. If people here are getting up in arms over that, get a grip and go for a ride. Bunch of whinging safety nazis... :nya:

[Bullitt]

I think its just ignorance of the consequences.
When I had my 250 I never wore anything better than jeans and occassionally shorts. For a couple of years I didnt have a proper bike jacket either, in the end I bought one more cause I was sick of getting wet than cause I was afraid of getting hurt.
All I regularly wore was a helmet and gloves (even with a tshirt:blink:)

Luckily I never came off but that was probably more good luck than good management. When I came back to bikes I realised that attitude was foolish.

I suspect scooter riders often dont realise the consequences, and if they crash and find out it puts them off enough that you wont see them on a scooter again to show theyve learned their lesson.

[Flatcap]

Aah, the old Safety Gear Nannys are out again.

The fact is a 50cc scooter IS a pushbike with a motor. Those twats I see on Tamaki drive of a Sunday morning in garish lycra on their racing cycles go faster, and as cynna says above, you don't see them in leathers.

Wait until it heats up a bit in summer - will all you enlightened, safety conscious Riders put all your leathers on to fetch that icecream from the dairy? Honestly?

I sure as hell don't - Unless I decide to do a big loop somewhere

[Jantar]

I certainly don't wear ATGATT, but I do have a minimum standard of helmet, gloves, leather footwear, and no bare skin. Yes, even for a trip to the shop.

[DougB]

This topic has come up many times before. The last time
it was summer and I counted the number of motorcycle riders in shirts, shorts and jandals. Ther were just as many as scooter riders. Dont be one eyed and dont pick on scooter riders

One who has both motorcycles and a scooter and is not one eyed about either.

[davereid]

No - it IS all about freedom of choice.

If you are a libertarian then you will say - its my life, I own it and I will use it as I please as long as I don't endanger others.

But others will argue that you have a responsibility to the wider community and you can't ride a motorcycle or scooter without a helmet or other safety gear because it may cost others money via taxes or ACC to patch you up if you crash.

So actually, its all about money. They use force to take your money in taxes, offering the carrot that they provide (or claim to provide) welfare.

Now because they have a responsibility for you, they have to restrict what you do, to limit their responsibility.

They offer the combined principle of "public good" and "best safety practice"

Its a great idea - you can ride your motorcycle or scooter as long as you adopt "best safety practice" and wear all your gear.

The trouble with concepts of best safety practice, is that they are moving targets.

Its the very arguement that will be used to take your motorcycle off you.

So you now scoff at the old timers (or "ignorant youngsters") who ride or rode without helmets or other safety gear.

But you will find that the concept of "Best Practice" will be redefined. So instead of being the safest way to ride your motorcycle, it will be redefined as the safest form of transport.

So your motorcycle will be banned, your grandchildren will be horrified you ever rode one, and you will go everywhere in your Volvo with 35 airbags, and a computer to be sure you never speed.

So, for me, I'll make my own choices. Some of them won't be best practice, my shoulders are big enough to cope with the guilt.

So if you don't like the fact that on a sunny day I ride in a "t" shirt, then call me an idiot, a Darwin Award candidate, or whatever.

And when they take your motorcyle off you as its too dangerous to be permitted any more, you can turn the stereo in your new car up (at least to the permissable safe hearing level), slow down to a safe speed, and die of boredom.

[Bulldog]

You can do what you like mate but don't come on here winging about having lost parts or use of parts of your body because you weren't wearing what is the 'current' safety standard.

No one said they were perfect in here but wearing proper kit is a very simple way to stay 'safer' while doing crazy stuff.

AND Why oh why do people still think jeans will do shit when you hit the tarmac? They instantaneously melt to your leg then dissapear...they're useless.

Yes cyclists wear nothing and go as fast....did I ever say cyclists were any better off? They're just as bad!

'THEY' will only deem motorcycles too dangerous if all the people like 'YOU' get hurt while not wearing proper kit.

:Oi:

[Morcs]

In my riding lifetime I must have seen about 7 different people riding Hayabusa's with shorts and t-shirts on.... and thats in 2 different countries too...

Nuts.

[Coyote]

Check this... http://www.nzgirl.co.nz/articles/8324


Skirts: Make sure you invested in plenty of pairs of pants because unless you’re comfortable with flashing your undies and having your skirt up around your face (which is also a potentially hazardous situation) skirts are a no-go when you’re heading out on your scooter.
Haha, skirts aren't bad due to lack of protection but cause they could embarrass you.

[davereid]

I'm not sure I agree with the freedom of choice. You know we all pay when you grind your knees to the bone and can't work for 12 months with skin and bone grafts. That being by ACC for surgery and taxes for your sickness benefit. If you're willing to sign away all these things then cool go ahead and have your freedom.:girlfight:

I agree.

That's exactly what I want.

Stop taking income Tax off me.
Stop charging me ACC.
Stop charging me GST.
Actually don't take any money off me unless I agree.

If I want the service you offer, I'll buy it if I like the price.

And then get out of my life and go and irritate someone else.

So Tonight...

I'll have a couple of nips more than the "Scottish Alcohol Advisory Board" says is safe, at least according to the label on my Scotch.

I'm gonna have a toot on a fine cigar... mmm - but I promise not to inhale, can't have the the taxpayer buying me new lungs.

Friday night, I'll stop and buy fish and chip for tea - shit I'm so reckless with your money, cos I'll feed em to the grandchildren too.

And then on Saturday, if it turns out sunny, I'll put my jeans and my Warriors T shirt on, my missus will wear her heels and a nice short skirt, and we will putt on down to the bar at the beach on the Harley.

Meanwhile, the g'mint will ban another recreational chemical, put petrol and the rubbish tip up, improve the MPs superanuation plan, and then tell me I must wear a dayglow jacket on my scooter in case I crash.

[Bulldog]

Mate, I've just checked out your profile and read over some of your other posts and low and behold on almost all of them you're ranting at people for bringing up safety issues. What's your issue?

How bout we get back to the issue raised instead of dramatising the subject of authority & safety.

:oi-grr:

[davereid]

Its common sense to use safety gear. I don't discourage it, never have, and never will.

I'm never going to show up, and be nasty to someone because they wear safety gear, in fact, I usually wear a full set of gear even when I am just nipping down the shops on my scooter.

But, I want to have choices in my life, and not hand those choices over to "authority". Because that generally means, that sooner or later, if its not "in the public good" it will be banned.

I am sure that if the motorcycle was invented tomorrow, it would be banned. It's just too fast, too unstable and too vulnerable.

Well meaning people like to pass laws to make other people safer.

Perhaps sadly, much of the pleasure I gain from life comes from things that others would consider dangerous or unsafe. Like motorcycling.

So I have to consider those well meaning, caring people as predators who would remove the pleasures from my life.

My grandchilden and great grandchildernwill be very very lucky indeed to ride a motorcycle without power restrictions, GPS tracking, automatic ticket issuing etc.

I feel sorry for them.

[Bulldog]

I understand what you're saying and I do agree with you that society has become so PC that all things 'good' are being deemed bad and I can also see how people saying "you should wear proper kit" on a scooter can take the fun out of it. Point taken.

I like the idea of products like draggin jeans and the likes coming out because I do find it a drag to wear all the kit all the time and I would like to wear some normal stuff on the bike AND be safer. let's hope there's more of it to come.

[kaz]

I ride a scooter and I wear all the gear, even when nipping up to shops. And if I can't be bothered wearing lots of gear, I just walk to the shops instead. But I know I'm in the scooter minority.

I agree that scooter advertising is misleading and I see heaps of scooterists without gear. But I also see quite a few motorbikers without gear - what's their excuse? (the advertising clearly shows people riding with gear).

So hopefully this is not a scooter-bashing thread in disguise - coz it's message belongs equally in the biker section of this forum.

When I first bought a scooter, Carl at Motorad insisted I get a full-face helmet. I might not have known any better if he hadn't.

[boomer]

bloody do gooders.. mind your own business.

right.. im going riding in ma shorts and jandals this weekend and every biker i see i'm gonna flip u the bird!

[Flatcap]

I reserve the right to ride naked if I so desire

Although I do tend to slip about a bit as my arse gets sweaty