Rattle Guns

[Paul in NZ]

Hmmm... I think I 'need' a rattle gun.... Well OK - I don't need one but I'd really like one anyway... I currently have a cheap as chips, one free with every grandfather clock 2hp compressor from supercheap and they tell me that they have 2 rattle gun options...

Option 1: A $69.99 item that needs a 2.5 hp compressor so apparently my compressor won't do the job (comments please)

Option 2: A $199.99 item thats bigger and can (apparently) run off a 2 hp compressor because it's more 'efficient' (ah hem)...

So - what do ya reckon... Wiil the cheapie be OK or bite the bullet and get Option 2.. My VERY limited experience is that these things are the shiz for removing stuck things but I'd really like any comments based on experience please.

Cheers

[koba]

Got my old man a real cheap yellow one from supershit in a multipack of airtools that was a direct copy of a fancier expensive one available, have used both, the cheapie is cast in steel instead of nice aluminium and has about 1/2 the grunt of the good one. (Cant remember exact numbers)

Cheap one wont undo 217 lb/ft gland nut on Volkswagen flywheel, Good one will just do it...

Cheap one has been used a fair bit for short periods with plenty of oil and seems to have held up fine, but prob not great for extended use.

It is really thirsty on air too so if ya want to undo all the bolts that hold a Volkswagen body down to the floorpan there is waiting periods for air to build up on Daddies compressor. (prob about 2hp)

[bungbung]

I've a cheap chinese fella from supercheap. It's the business.

Paraphrasing Koba, there's nothing on a bike that it won't be able to sort. The compressor capacity isn't an issue unless you need to undo many many items.
Keep it oily.

[vifferman]

No one ever regretted buying good tools.
Cheap tools? Almost always, especially when they either don't work well, or break. (Like the cheap torque wrench I bought years ago).
Expensive tools, yes. (That would be me, with my "Made in England" universal chain wrench filter tool, that's the most useless thing I've ever bought. Looks good though...)

[tri boy]

Go middle price and you should be right if it's mainly for domestic use.;)
Top range is only required if you earn a living using them. Ingersolrand, CP, etc are strong and reliable, but will cost $500+.
Compressor Cubic capacity will need to be up around 14cfm if you are using often. A good air dryer/oiler is a worthy accessory.
Enjoy ya rattl'n.:cool:

[Paul in NZ]

Its just bike stuff like the flywheel bolt on the FZR (don't ask) and coming up the gearbox input nut on the Moto guzzi... I can't see me doing multi bolt jobs like wheels etc.

[Edbear]

Air tools require a minimum of 90PSI to operate properly. The other factor is tank capacity as to how long the tool will operate before running the compressor out of air. Most compressors will easily achieve the 90PSI, but the cheap ones have small air tanks and will run out of air very quickly.

My favourite brand of air tool is SUMAKE, made in Taiwan and well priced.

The best impact wrench, (rattle gun) on the market at the moment in my experience is the SUMAKE composite at 1000ft.lb. of torque! Cost is about $450. You won't need that kind of power and the standard 450ft.lb at about the $200 mark will do all you need for ever and a day.

If you just want to take off wheel nuts, most of the cheaper guns will do that, just questionable as for how long, look for at least 3-400ft.lb torque rating. You'll need at least a 12cfm compressor, (smaller ones run out of air too quick and you'll get frustrated), and if you PM Sarge, or phone 0800 800 488 you can source a range of type and power to suit your needs. :done:

[laRIKin]

Air tools require a minimum of 90PSI to operate properly. The other factor is tank capacity as to how long the tool will operate before running the compressor out of air. Most compressors will easily achieve the 90PSI, but the cheap ones have small air tanks and will run out of air very quickly.

If you just want to take off wheel nuts, most of the cheaper guns will do that, just questionable as for how long, look for at least 3-400ft.lb torque rating. You'll need at least a 12cfm compressor, (smaller ones run out of air too quick and you'll get frustrated), and if you PM Sarge, or phone 0800 800 488 you can source a range of type and power to suit your needs. :done:

What he said, for a short burst the cheap compressors will do it and then you will have to wait for it to recover the lost pressure.
A larger tank does help.
But for longer use you will need a bigger one.
Like if you are painting using a sander or a sand blaster etc.
I bought a small one (2HP? long time ago) and now have 16cfm and sometimes wish I got a bigger one, but that would mean 3 phase I think.

Once you have one you start to use it for more and more things.
So buy as big as you can, I guess.

[Edbear]

What he said, for a short burst the cheap compressors will do it and then you will have to wait for it to recover the lost pressure.
A larger tank does help.
But for longer use you will need a bigger one.
Like if you are painting using a sander or a sand blaster etc.
I bought a small one (2HP? long time ago) and now have 16cfm and sometimes wish I got a bigger one, but that would mean 3 phase I think.

Once you have one you start to use it for more and more things.
So buy as big as you can, I guess.



Yup! Most compressors will only go to 15cfm on single phase, Airforce will do a 16cfm in single phase but you can compensate to some extent by getting a bigger tank capacity. Most smaller compressors have either a 25lt or 50lt tank and for what you want I'd suggest a 50lt as bare minimum. 120lt would be ideal, though. Of course it's all down to $, eh?

[riffer]

I'm running a Project Air 24litre Air compressor with a 2HP motor, and my rattle gun came as a full Fuller Pro Air tools set (http://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/power_tools/air_driven_tools/75_piece_air_tool_accessory_kit_257209.cfm?sid=1&rid=3&orderby=1) from Mitre10. I paid $200 for it two years ago, but I notice it's only $175 now.

You're welcome to borrow mine if you want Paul. I can bring it tomorrow night if you like.

[Paul in NZ]

I'm running a Project Air 24litre Air compressor with a 2HP motor, and my rattle gun came as a full Fuller Pro Air tools set (http://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/power_tools/air_driven_tools/75_piece_air_tool_accessory_kit_257209.cfm?sid=1&rid=3&orderby=1) from Mitre10. I paid $200 for it two years ago, but I notice it's only $175 now.

You're welcome to borrow mine if you want Paul. I can bring it tomorrow night if you like.

Sweet as but I want to test the exisiting alt first Simon... But I know where to get one now ;-)

Thanks for that mate - perhaps you have to bring it over and check out some CD's?? ;-)

[riffer]

I'm desperately trying to find a day I'm not flat out at the moment Paul.

I'm out tomorrow night, and every day thereafter for at least five days.

We do need to get out to 'param though. I'll plead with SHMBO again...

[Paul in NZ]

I'm desperately trying to find a day I'm not flat out at the moment Paul.

I'm out tomorrow night, and every day thereafter for at least five days.

We do need to get out to 'param though. I'll plead with SHMBO again...

I should think tomorrow night is 'out' Simon... ;-) See you there

I'll make a couple of back ups for yer...

[Motu]

We have to think backwards for an electrical dude like you - air is like electricity.Big fat cables,heaps of amps....and that little motor will spin like crazy until it melts.In other words - air flow,not the tool....a cheap and nasty will give as much grunt as a far more expensive gun if you give it enough air.....not pressure (volts) but flow (amps).

Being as I earn my living with these things I'd like to mention some expensive brand names....but as we all know now these are just labels affixed in a production line in China....SnapOn and DeSouta or Ingersol Rand today,Top Hit and Jing Giang tomorrow.Would you like fries with that?

My Matco 1/2 gun was the most powerfull around 15 years ago....and today after a hell of a life as my shop gun it's still in perfect condition,sent back with a clean instead of a rebuild.But is far surpassed these days by lower quality guns,times have moved on.

[Paul in NZ]

Thanks for the info everyone, some good points to ponder...

Given my budget, I can't quite justify the expense of a really good tool for the once or twice a year application I envisage. Its a hobby for me, not a way of earning a living and although I can appreciate nice tools - I can't afford em all... (drat)

I'll look at scoring a deal on tardme I reckon.... There are a few well priced things that if they don't work out - won't cost more than a night on the turps - spending $400 is just out of the question, I'd prioritise a hydralic work bench before that.

Besides - I'm 51 years old and a type 1 diabetic, statistically I'm on borrowed time anyway and i have 3 daughters who definately don't want to inherit and tools... ;-)

[Paul in NZ]

We have to think backwards for an electrical dude like you .


half that setence is right - just think backwards for me... :blink:

[laRIKin]

Yup! Most compressors will only go to 15cfm on single phase, Airforce will do a 16cfm in single phase but you can compensate to some extent by getting a bigger tank capacity. Most smaller compressors have either a 25lt or 50lt tank and for what you want I'd suggest a 50lt as bare minimum. 120lt would be ideal, though. Of course it's all down to $, eh?

After thinking about it, mine is 14cfm that can go to 16cfm by changing the gearing on the belt drive as the motor is big enough to handle it and is a soft start. OTTOMH

[Pancakes]

I have a mate who changed the pulley for more pressure, we thought the pump or something would fail after a while but no leaks yet. It fills slower now but he got a free busted compressor with a massive tank and has that inline with the other one for more volume, he uses it quite often (most weekends) for an air D/A and can do most of a car body before a smoko break to let it fill up again. Air dryer/oiler is a must for your tools lifespan too.

[roadracingoldfart]

Just look around for a used LPG or old CNG cylinder to add to the air volume you have in the pump tank.
I have a 55 litre cng tank and its great , but it still wont power my snapon IM5100 gun as the little pump couldnt feed enough air if you beat it with a hammer.
Supercrap autos has a cute set of tools and a spray gun and all sorts for a good price and it will add to the tool shelf nicely. They are ok for home use (but a guy at work has one , the cheap bitch) so give it a wizz.
PS; the air line to the tool is the secret , if ya can get a 1/2 inch bore hose.
Air tools work better with air volume / flow , not just sheer pressure.

[Edbear]

Just look around for a used LPG or old CNG cylinder to add to the air volume you have in the pump tank.
I have a 55 litre cng tank and its great , but it still wont power my snapon IM5100 gun as the little pump couldnt feed enough air if you beat it with a hammer.
Supercrap autos has a cute set of tools and a spray gun and all sorts for a good price and it will add to the tool shelf nicely. They are ok for home use (but a guy at work has one , the cheap bitch) so give it a wizz.
PS; the air line to the tool is the secret , if ya can get a 1/2 inch bore hose.
Air tools work better with air volume / flow , not just sheer pressure.




Good points! You're right, it's flow as much as pressure. However, unless you're using a 3/4" gun or something really big, the best answer is to switch to high-flow fittings. NZ is somewhat unique in using 1/4BSP tail-pieces and simply changing to high-flow will work wonders. Even a 3/4 gun will work well with high-flow fittings (and a 30cm piece of 1/2" line before the gun to act as a reservior).

[Max Preload]

...it's flow as much as pressure.

Indeed. It's the pressure that creates the flow. The less pressure drop from a larger accumulator, the longer it can flow at a high rate. And unless you're using 16cfm constantly, there's no need to have a compressor that can deliver that. Unless you don't have any accumulation.