Where does gears come from?

[degrom]

I love SEEING how things work!!!

V2NOHWKqqi8

[peasea]

Very cool.
Years ago I saw a black 'n' white video of Chevrolet casting up a row (yes a row) of their small block V8 cylinder blocks. It went through all the machining processes, then assembly and final fire-up. I'd love to own a copy of that now.

[degrom]

Very cool.
Years ago I saw a black 'n' white video of Chevrolet casting up a row (yes a row) of their small block V8 cylinder blocks. It went through all the machining processes, then assembly and final fire-up. I'd love to own a copy of that now.

Sounds very interesting!!! I saw a thing about the Ferrari factory on Sky the other night...

No wonder they are so freaking expensive!!! But its just a bit sad to see that everything is made by CNC machines these days... No skills involved in pressing a button... LOL

(Then again I must respect the people that creates the blueprints for the CNC machines)

[imdying]

No wonder they are so freaking expensive!!! But its just a bit sad to see that everything is made by CNC machines these days... No skills involved in pressing a button... LOLWhat happens, do you think, if you misplace the tooling in their holders, or set the work up wrong, on a half million dollar CNC mill? I'm guessing there's a little skill left in CNC other than the programmers.

[ManDownUnder]

Anyone care to share the calculations behind that "simple machining" of the gear?

I always laughed when I was assumed to be a bit thick because I wore overalls... underpaid is a better description. Pure bloody magic that is.

[NighthawkNZ]

I love SEEING how things work!!!


Spacely Sprockets :blink:

[degrom]

What happens, do you think, if you misplace the tooling in their holders, or set the work up wrong, on a half million dollar CNC mill? I'm guessing there's a little skill left in CNC other than the programmers.

Yes,but its not like you need a scientist to run or set it up(When last did you watch OCC).

Proper hand made stuff use to be done by people with 30years of experience in the field,where has that gone? (Please don't say China!!!)

[imdying]

Proper hand made stuff use to be done by people with 30years of experience in the field,where has that gone? (Please don't say China!!!)It was replaced by technology that does it faster, cheaper, and more consistently :D

[degrom]

Anyone care to share the calculations behind that "simple machining" of the gear?

I always laughed when I was assumed to be a bit thick because I wore overalls... underpaid is a better description. Pure bloody magic that is.

Maths mate!!! But its a step higher than + and - ... LOL

[peasea]

Spacely Sprockets :blink:

By George!

[ManDownUnder]

Maths mate!!! But its a step higher than + and - ... LOL

Sure is... here's some now (http://www.pic-design.com/tech/gear_form/gear_form1.htm).

Tell me again machinists are morons? (Not you degrom - a general comment at anyone assuming tradesmen are stupid)

I mentioned to a guy I was thinking of doing a degree after I finizhed my trade and I got "But you're only a tradesman - are you sure you could handle it?"

After not being put off (I nearly was), I hit Uni doing business, but my first glance at the engineering papers told me I'd comfortably fit into a year 3 class...

... sorry - it's a sore point... I'll back off.

[degrom]

Sure is... here's some now (http://www.pic-design.com/tech/gear_form/gear_form1.htm).

Tell me again machinists are morons? (Not you degrom - a general comment at anyone assuming tradesmen are stupid)

I mentioned to a guy I was thinking of doing a degree after I finizhed my trade and I got "But you're only a tradesman - are you sure you could handle it?"

After not being put off (I nearly was), I hit Uni doing business, but my first glance at the engineering papers told me I'd comfortably fit into a year 3 class...

... sorry - it's a sore point... I'll back off.

Thats what I am talking about!!!

Put a "real" tradesman behind a big CNC machine and you will end up with master peaces at the end of the production line.

I get the feeling now a day they don't properly train people anymore and some of the beginners start with CNC machines and don't have a clue how the basics behind the screen works.(Thats what you get in a fast paced world where you don't have time to wait 10years for a person to gain the needed skills.(You just pre-order them from another country!!!))

[ManDownUnder]

Thats what I am talking about!!!

Put a "real" tradesman behind a big CNC machine and you will end up with master peaces at the end of the production line.

I get the feeling now a day they don't properly train people anymore and some of the beginners start with CNC machines and don't have a clue how the basics behind the screen works.(Thats what you get in a fast paced world where you don't have time to wait 10years for a person to gain the needed skills.(You just pre-order them from another country!!!))

Blinged - 500% agreement from this end.

[sAsLEX]

Very cool.
Years ago I saw a black 'n' white video of Chevrolet casting up a row (yes a row) of their small block V8 cylinder blocks. It went through all the machining processes, then assembly and final fire-up. I'd love to own a copy of that now.

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From http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=52513&highlight=mechanical+porn

There was a good article about a "tradesman" Honda used to use rather than all its scientists to feddle with there RC30 engines, in a shed with simple lathe and tools, but he had the experience and the "Eye" to get those motors doing things the boffins couldn't.

[ManDownUnder]

There was a good article about a "tradesman" Honda used to use rather than all its scientists to feddle with there RC30 engines, in a shed with simple lathe and tools, but he had the experience and the "Eye" to get those motors doing things the boffins couldn't.

That's my dream job - programming those things...

[Steam]

Is that how they make engines??? Wow, I thought it would be faster, more mass-produced. Is that how Mitsubishi, for example, would make an engine, with a milling machine like that? How many milling machines would they need for one engine factory?

EDIT: Oh, so 99% of engines are cast, only 1% are actually milled like this. Oh well.

[Angusdog]

There was a good article about a "tradesman" Honda used to use rather than all its scientists to feddle with there RC30 engines, in a shed with simple lathe and tools, but he had the experience and the "Eye" to get those motors doing things the boffins couldn't.

I remember that guy, it was an article in Perf Bikes from memory. He ordered boxes of shell main bearings and measured them and got a couple from a box that were to his spec, which is remarkable for parts from a japanese manufacturer.

I've ordered one of those 5 axis mills. I'm going to type "Ferrari 250GTO Motor" into it, hit the "60% size" button (which it probably has) and pop a whole lot of coke cans in the hopper at the top (which it almost certainly has). Then I'm going to wait until my new engine for my M50 pops out the other end.

[Ocean1]

Yes,but its not like you need a scientist to run or set it up(When last did you watch OCC).

I'm reliably informed they can't set it up/run it. And it's a really simple interface on a very basic machine.

Proper hand made stuff use to be done by people with 30years of experience in the field,where has that gone? (Please don't say China!!!)

China.

Sorry, but the economic environment for manufacturers here is impossible, they've all gone.


That's my dream job - programming those things...

You don't usually work directly on a CNC interface dude, you can do but for more than very simple jobs you'd use a 3D CAD app like Pro-E or SolidWorks. I use Rhino, got a plug-in for that called Involute which makes gears a piece of piss. When you've finished the model you usually export it in a format a CNC can read, (typically IGES143 but it varies heaps).


Is that how they make engines??? Wow, I thought it would be faster, more mass-produced. Is that how Mitsubishi, for example, would make an engine, with a milling machine like that? How many milling machines would they need for one engine factory?

EDIT: Oh, so 99% of engines are cast, only 1% are actually milled like this. Oh well.

Yup, CNC work from fukcing great blocks of solid tooling alloy like that isn't really production friendly, too many opperations. Similar machine does the work on a cast block though, just less material to remove.


I've ordered one of those 5 axis mills. I'm going to type "Ferrari 250GTO Motor" into it, hit the "60% size" button (which it probably has) and pop a whole lot of coke cans in the hopper at the top (which it almost certainly has). Then I'm going to wait until my new engine for my M50 pops out the other end.

Let me know how that works OK dude?

The next wave of cute CAD/CAM tricks is almost here. If you've seen a rapid prototyping machine you'll see it build up (or "print") thousands of layers of plastic. You can make almost any shape you want like that, (got a multi-coloured ball bearing around here somewhere, actually "works") but only in a limited range of plastic. Until now. There's machines that work the same way, only they use microwaves to fuse some of each layer of material, slowly building up a 3D shape. The technology is reasonably new, so far the only available materials are tool steel and Titanium. Cool eh? for the first time there are no constraints on the shapes you can make. You don't have to worry about if it's machinable or fabricatable or how to mix techniques to optimise the design. You just model exactly what you want, with whatever cavities and wall thickness you want, and pull the trigger. New super-lightweight Ti racing bike anyone?

[ManDownUnder]

You don't usually work directly on a CNC interface dude, you can do but for more than very simple jobs you'd use a 3D CAD app like Pro-E or SolidWorks. I use Rhino, got a plug-in for that called Involute which makes gears a piece of piss. When you've finished the model you usually export it in a format a CNC can read, (typically IGES143 but it varies heaps).

Whoaaaa... you... you... do this stuff...???

Where do I learn...?

[Ocean1]

Whoaaaa... you... you... do this stuff...???

Where do I learn...?

Sometimes, I like to mix it up as much as possible, (I get bored). I don't have my own CNC shop, I sub out what I need. Mostly what I do is industrial mech design, sometimes that involves 3D CAD work and sometimes it means my system needs to talk to A CNC machine.

Weltech here do a great range of courses, you could ask Auckland Uni if they do intro courses.

If you want to play some to get a feel for it go here: http://download.mcneel.com/eval/?p=25 and download the evaluation version. It's close to the one I use, fully functional. Don't be skeered by all the buttons eh? it's probably got the best on-line support network on the planet, bar none.

Edit: check this out: http://gallery.mcneel.com/?language=en&i=22098

[degrom]

Right I found what I was looking for!!!!

Loved the music that went with it!!!(Must be as old as gear making... LOL)

VHTXaU7GZC0

[El Dopa]

I remember that guy, it was an article in Perf Bikes from memory.

If it's the same one I'm thinking of, it was 'Superbike' magazine. Pretty sure it was the July issue.

[Pancakes]

There was a good article about a "tradesman" Honda used to use rather than all its scientists to feddle with there RC30 engines, in a shed with simple lathe and tools, but he had the experience and the "Eye" to get those motors doing things the boffins couldn't.

Yeah Tony Scott. The guys amazing! Used to have 10 or 20 engines in the back garden shed at any one time plus all the spares! Used all normal tools, no computers, just line bores and micrometers etc. Milling everything and knowing what good looked like.

[sAsLEX]

That's my dream job - programming those things...

Most of the programming is done automatically in certain software packages, the main thing to ensure is that the correct tools are in the "magazine" so when the arm spins around to grab a 5mm drill bit it gets that , or when it goes to place a tool in an empty slot it doesn't bash a filled hole.

[degrom]

Most of the programming is done automatically in certain software packages, the main thing to ensure is that the correct tools are in the "magazine" so when the arm spins around to grab a 5mm drill bit it gets that , or when it goes to place a tool in an empty slot it doesn't bash a filled hole.

Setting up the material must also be important... As I know it, you calibrate the CNC program(Zero the axses) with the material dimetions and then it will go from there.

Amazing to think that a machine can pick up tools and continue on its way. I have mostly seen hobby CNC mills(First generation machines) and they need lots of supervision or they will hurt them selfs... LOL

[sAsLEX]

Setting up the material must also be important... As I know it, you calibrate the CNC program(Zero the axses) with the material dimetions and then it will go from there.

Amazing to think that a machine can pick up tools and continue on its way. I have mostly seen hobby CNC mills(First generation machines) and they need lots of supervision or they will hurt them selfs... LOL

Yeah Zero them wrong and they self destruct and grind the bed plates and clamps etc to pieces!