Michelin Pilot Power warning!

[k1w160]

Gidday,

I was out riding the SV yesterday and it just wasn't handling right.

I was beginning to wonder if the front tyre had lost some air pressure (I had checked the pressures at the beginning of the ride, like I do everytime I go out on the bike), so I stopped in Helensville and had a look

WHAT I FOUND REALLY CONCERNED ME

There is a faint line around the entire circumference of the front tyre, just off the centre line, and the tyre is slightly raised when you rub your finger over it from side to side!!!!!!!

A VERY slow ride back home followed and I will be going into the dealer that I purchased the tyre from to see what they think.

The tyre is about 1/3 worn, and I am more of a cruiser on the roads so it hasn't been punished in any way.

The tyre is a Pilot Power 120/70 ZR17 Made in Spain

Here is a photo of the tyre and the line, a couple of mm from the arrow, note the way that the line moves around the tread showing that this is not the result of something scoring the tyre.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/kiwi60/tyreline.jpg

I strongly recommend, that in light of the failures that Michelin has been having with both road tyres and the high profile Rossi MotoGP front tyre problem, that all Michelin users check your tyres immediatley.

I'll keep you posted with the response of the tyre shop and Michelin.

Cheers

[cowpoos]

did you run up a curb or hit a hard object?

[k1w160]

Good thought, but no I didn't hit anything, it was a beautiful day with excellent visability on well maintained roads.

Even if I had hit something, if this line had appeared around the entire tyre because of it, I would still be very concerned.

[NinjaNanna]

Are Pilot Power's dual compound???

[k1w160]

Gidday,

The Michelin Pilot Power 2 CT are dual compound (and I'm running one of those on the back with no problems), however this is not a 2CT, just the std Pilot Power.

Cheers

[dogsnbikes]

Are Pilot Power's dual compound???

the 2ct powers are

that line looks like where the wear line should be ......... when it disappears time for a new tyre discovered that when looking at my rear last month had a mark like that ....where a green rubber beed use to be :blink:

[k1w160]

Gidday,

I do know what you mean about the wear line on the rear tyre, I'm on my third Pilot Power on the back and am familiar with it, but I'm not sure if I agree on that in this situation...why would a manufacturer desgin a wear line that produces a raised profile on the front tyre and uspests handling to such a degree that it becomes unstable?

As posted, I check my tyres everytime that I ride, and there was no evidence of this previously, and if it is a wear line, then it became noticable in 60km of legal speed open road riding.

If this is a wear line, then shouldn't these tyres should come out with a clear warning about instability when they are about 1/3 worn?

It may be my scottish ancestors coming through here, but I would like to think that a premium tyre would be good for more than 1/3 wear before replacement.

It will be interesting to see what the experts at the shop say.

All opinions on this tyre are welcomed.

Cheers

[k1w160]

Will do, thanks for that.

[slowpoke]

All opinions on this tyre are welcomed.

Cheers

Hmmmm, I'd want to be waaaaay more sure of my facts before I put up a thread called 'michelin warning!!!!!!!!!".
I'm not saying this isn't the problem, but I've seen tyres with much greater distortion than this (check any regular commuters' tyre) that still rode reasonably well. Unless something is breaking down within the tyre I can't see how this relatively minor looking "defect" would have such a sudden dramatic effect at cruising speeds.
In what way is the bike not handling as per normal?

[k1w160]

Gidday,

The 'warning' bit was put there for a reason, as was this thread.

If there is a 'potential problem' with the Pilot Power front tyre, then it is better to lean to the side of caution until a clear answer can be found.

The front felt like it had started to go flat, as per a previous post above, and was enough of a detrimental change in handling that I felt it best to stop and check it out.

As Michelin has had documented delamination issues with their front road tyres recently, I am quite happy to be seen as waving a cautionary warning flag to other riders.

This may even be a one off and I am happy to admit it if it is, and if it is a normal wear characteristic of these tyres, then I want to know that as well, as it will influence my buying decision on tyres for both of my bikes in the future.

I am not new to motorcyling, I am a rider of 32 years continuious experience, and with a little road racing under my belt as well (3rd place in the 06-07 NZPCRA pre'89 senior class chamionship), I am used to tyres sliding, spinning up and generally mis-behaving, but this was definately a first in my experience.

The 'facts' are as follows:

Pilot Powers front and rear both semingly in good condition with plenty of life left in them.
Well maintained '05 SV1000S with 20,000km on the clock.
Deteriation of handling while riding at legal open road speeds over a very short period of time.
Line on the tyre with a noticable raised area the only visible reason for the deteriation of handling.

I am happy to be proved wrong in this matter, however, until I have professional tyre experts look at the tyre and give their input (and that is not ment to be a dig at any who have posted or will post on this thread), then I am quite happy to caution people to check these tyres (or any other brand for that matter) for any faults or unusual wear patterns, which we should all be doing anyway.

As stated before: all opinions on this tyre are welcome.

Cheers

[Renegade]

ive seen this heaps on car tyres over the years, bubbles forming under the tread and separating from the wire/canvas for what ever reason, its definately a safety issue, i reckon your tyres poked mate, just my 2c :done:

[Cr1MiNaL]

Hello,

Not sure if what ur refering to is the carbon strip that runs down the center line of the tire (as I cant open the pic 4 some reason). But anyhow if it is a thin white line, this just helps transfer the heat from the center of the tire to the outsides so that when your riding in a straight line all of ur tire is heated up, including the edges... (this should not be a raised portion of tire either!, thats just dangerous).

If its causing instability, I'd just demand a replacement. Not worth the risk.

[CBobR]

Interesting, I just got my new issues of Superbike and Performance Bike, both have ads issueing a recall of certain Pilot Power fronts.
Only ones made in France though?

"
Michelin to Recall Pilot Power 2CT and Pilot Power 120/70 ZR 17 Front Motorcycle Tyres
15/06/07


(STOKE-ON-TRENT – 15 June 2007) – Michelin has launched a campaign to recall its Pilot Power 2CT and Pilot Power 120/70 ZR 17 front motorcycle tyres with “Made in France” markings. An examination of these tyres showed a possible defect in the tread due to a manufacturing irregularity. No cases of pressure loss have been reported and no accidents have occurred.

Because customer safety is its primary concern, Michelin has decided as a precaution to replace certain 120/70 ZR 17 Michelin Pilot Power 2CT and Michelin Pilot Power front tyres, which can be identified by the following markings on the sidewall:

a “Made in France” label
DOT 6UCW 980T or DOT 6UCW 979T
Pilot Power: week numbers 2704 to 0406 inclusive
Pilot Power 2CT: week numbers 4505 to 1807 inclusive
These tyres will no longer be sold by dealers.
"

[Fatjim]

Thats a different issue IIRC. They putconflicting direction arrows on the casings I think.

[jrandom]

Proper tyres are designed and made in Germany or Japan.

I wouldn't trust any frog- or spaghetti-eating tyre manufacturers with my motorcycle's traction and my life.

No way, no how.

Metzeler fanboy forever!

:2thumbsup

Edit: Contis are aiight, too. Go the GP4000s (http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/themes/tires/race/gp4000/GP4000_en.html)!

[Fatjim]

Proper tyres are designed and made in Germany or Japan.

I wouldn't trust any frog- or spaghetti-eating tyre manufacturers with my motorcycle's traction and my life.

No way, no how.

Metzeler fanboy forever!

:2thumbsup

Edit: Contis are aiight, too. Go the GP4000s (http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/themes/tires/race/gp4000/GP4000_en.html)!

Aren't metzlers made in Italy?

[jrandom]

Aren't metzlers made in Italy?

Dunno, do they have a factory in Italy? Never seen a Metzeler or a Conti that didn't say 'Made in Germany'.

[nodrog]

every set of pilot powers that i have used has had this line, on both front and rear tyres, with no ill effects on handling. i think you will find that this is how they are manufactured, i would be looking for other causes for your handling problem, ie lost a wheel weight etc.

[robertydog]

every set of pilot powers that i have used has had this line, on both front and rear tyres, with no ill effects on handling. i think you will find that this is how they are manufactured, i would be looking for other causes for your handling problem, ie lost a wheel weight etc.

Agreed. Ive always had the same line on my powers.

[onearmedbandit]

Pilot Powers ftw.

[jrandom]

Would you buy tyres from this man?

<img src="http://skitzzo.com/images/michelin.jpg"/>

[onearmedbandit]

Not directly no. But I'd like to drop a trip and share a spliff with him.

[kiwifruit]

thanks for the heads up

*changes to Avons*

:whistle:

[Leong]

every set of pilot powers that i have used has had this line, on both front and rear tyres, with no ill effects on handling. i think you will find that this is how they are manufactured, i would be looking for other causes for your handling problem, ie lost a wheel weight etc.

Me too....

[puddy]

every set of pilot powers that i have used has had this line, on both front and rear tyres, with no ill effects on handling. i think you will find that this is how they are manufactured, i would be looking for other causes for your handling problem, ie lost a wheel weight etc.
Me too too!

[Matt Bleck]

every set of pilot powers that i have used has had this line, on both front and rear tyres, with no ill effects on handling. i think you will find that this is how they are manufactured, i would be looking for other causes for your handling problem, ie lost a wheel weight etc.
...and mine....

[boomer]

that'll teach you all for using shiiiite tyres :crazy:

the pp's are bung .

[Gixxer 4 ever]

Ummm we had a problem with a Pilote Sport. It delaminated on a road trip last week. We took it to Toney Rees shop and had it replaced. What a great shop by the way. The inside of the case was like new but the tread had delaminated from the case. I know it is not a CT Power but same problem.

[Cr1MiNaL]

Just saw the picture now.... right... thats just the carbon strip that heats up the walls of the tire... ur local tire shop will tell u the same... its a good thing.... PP's are the shite.... but I'm gonna try the 2ct's now ..... (for some reason).

[puddytat]

I love my PP 2ct roads:stupid:

[SlowHand]

You mean a raised profile like this?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=927419&postcount=1

[surfchick]

Would you buy tyres from this man?

<img src="http://skitzzo.com/images/michelin.jpg"/>
I LOVE this man.
I would buy all his rolls. I always thought the duc would look good with white tires to match the pinstripe:devil2:

[k1w160]

Gidday,

I find it informative that so many have seen the lines before, as have I, but no one said that they had also found a raised area over the line, as is the case on this tyre.

As for the handling being caused by something not right on the bike - my bike is in absolute top condition, well maintained with suspension correctly adjusted for my weight and road riding style.

All the sugestions as to the cause problem are great, as combined knowledge will hopefully help find a cause, so keep them coming.

I should get the bike to the shop in the next day or so and will get their input on this as well.

Cheers

[Mrs Busa Pete]

i got a set of powers 3 weeks ago the front end was all over the place tank slaped at 80kms so went back to shop got it re fited the ballance was out by 10 grams and the rear by 15 grams plus they re senterd the front wheel this fixed the problem at the time but now its doing it again so is there a batch problem here

[k1w160]

Gidday busa pete,

That's interesting - take the tyres back to the shop and start asking questions - like I'm going to do.

If there is a problem (and it is still an if), we need to constructively find out, and allow the importer to stand by thier products.

I have excellent performance from previous Michelins, and am looking forward to finding out what, if anything, has changed with this one.

Cheers

[Zapf]

interesting. well its giving me 2nd thoughts about fitting a set of Pilot road 2's on Thursday.... fingures crossed.

[k1w160]

Gidday,

Time for an update.

Between torential rain showers this morning, I took the SV down to the shop who I bought the tyre from, and on looking at it they agreed that something was definatley wrong with the tyre and that further inspection should be carried out by Michelin to determine what has caused the delamination.

Not only was there a raised portion over the line in the tyre, there was also a hollow on another area, showing clear cause for concern.

A new replacement Pilot Power has been fitted at no cost to me, and I will be informed of the test results.

The tyre shop acted with complete professionalism and are to be commended on their action.

The title of this thread is Michelin Warning as that is the brand of tyre involved here, and I hope that this will stimulate all readers to regulary check your tyres - no matter what brand they are.

A tyre is a manufactured item and there is always a possibliy of a random fault occuring during production, and this is what I suspect this it - a random fault. If I was convinced that this brand was 'crook', there is no way that I would have had another one put on.

Look after your tyres guys and inspect them regulary - they are the only thing keeping your rims off the road.

Cheers

[Fatjim]

Has anybody seen these sort of repetitive problems with Pirellis?

[Grub]

The tyre shop acted with complete professionalism and are to be commended on their action.

Ok so we always call for a "name & shame" when we get told of ratbag operators - so to balance the books you need to "name & bling" the shop you refer to

[SlowHand]

geez, am i invisible? this delamination is old news.

[jrandom]

There are just a few too many dodgy stories surrounding Pilot Powers for me to feel completely comfortable riding on them.

I don't buy the squid party line that they're hella awesome. It's not an issue of how well they work when they're still doing what they're designed to do; it's an issue of how likely they are to randomly fail and behave outside their intended design parameters, and once one has heard enough stories from enough different sources, one tends to get twitchy.

[k1w160]

Gidday,


Ok so we always call for a "name & shame" when we get told of ratbag operators - so to balance the books you need to "name & bling" the shop you refer to

Yep, fair enough, I have been dealing with Cycletreads - North Shore.

Interestingly, I picked up the Sept 2007 issue of PB (perfomance bike uk) yesterday and on page 68 there is a full page add recalling the french made Pilot Power 2CT AND the std Pilot Powers - so this is still a probelm over there.

Hopefully this is a one off with the spainish PP's.

Cheers

[k1w160]

Gidday slowhand,

Re:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...19&postcount=1

Gotta be honest, when I checked your thread I initially thought it had been photo shopped - what did Michelin do about that one?

Cheers

[SlowHand]

Same as you, replacement at there cost. Worked out for me, since it was just about due. :D

And to think, a week before the bulge I was wondering why I was getting brake shudder at the end of Taupo back straight. heh

[Cr1MiNaL]

scary stuff, Im gonna use 2Ct's 4m now...

[SimJen]

Proper tyres are designed and made in Germany or Japan.

I wouldn't trust any frog- or spaghetti-eating tyre manufacturers with my motorcycle's traction and my life.

No way, no how.

Metzeler fanboy forever!

:2thumbsup

Edit: Contis are aiight, too. Go the GP4000s (http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/themes/tires/race/gp4000/GP4000_en.html)!

Metzeler are part of Pirelli or the other way around.....Pirelli being "Italian spaghetti eaters"!


There are just a few too many dodgy stories surrounding Pilot Powers for me to feel completely comfortable riding on them.

I don't buy the squid party line that they're hella awesome. It's not an issue of how well they work when they're still doing what they're designed to do; it's an issue of how likely they are to randomly fail and behave outside their intended design parameters, and once one has heard enough stories from enough different sources, one tends to get twitchy.

People who moan on the internet are always heard above the many thousands of happy users!
I've had Michelins all my riding life: Roads, Sports, Pilot Race, Pilot Powers etc. Never a problem with any of them. I've tried other tires, Bridgestones (slap happy), Metzellers (funny handling) etc, these failings aren't indicative of the brands though, just my experiences on the type of bike I had at the time.
Dig deep enough and the dirt will always come out no matter what the product!

[Cr1MiNaL]

Proper tyres are designed and made in Germany or Japan.

I wouldn't trust any frog- or spaghetti-eating tyre manufacturers with my motorcycle's traction and my life.

No way, no how.

I understand your point of view and appreciate your opinion, but the way in which that was worded is sadly discerning mate. Why and how do the food people consume correlate to their abilities as good workmen I cannot understand.:oi-grr:

[jrandom]

Why and how do the food people consume correlate to their abilities as good workmen I cannot understand.:oi-grr:

[vindaloo joke goes here]

[Cr1MiNaL]

Ummmm yummy ! :yes:

[onearmedbandit]

I'm a fan of Michelin rubber, never had any dramas with my Pilot Powers or Races. If they were so bad then why do they come so heavily recommended by numerous testers the world throughout? Surely they are not all on Michelins payroll.

[Cr1MiNaL]

I like sleeping with my bike too... jus cant figure out how to seduce her into bed yet.

[onearmedbandit]

There are just a few too many dodgy stories surrounding Pilot Powers for me to feel completely comfortable riding on them.

I don't buy the squid party line that they're hella awesome. It's not an issue of how well they work when they're still doing what they're designed to do; it's an issue of how likely they are to randomly fail and behave outside their intended design parameters, and once one has heard enough stories from enough different sources, one tends to get twitchy.

Ahhh, the same could be said about GSXR's frames snapping though...

[jrandom]

Ahhh, the same could be said about GSXR's frames snapping though...

Why do you think I'm sticking with a sturdy old SRAD?

I occasionally wake up from nightmares of riding a K6 ;)

Oh, no, hang on, that would be the wet dreams...

Yes, good point.

[simonnn]

The line you mention is a static discharge line.
With silicum based compounds a discharge point is neccessary.
It will have no effect on the handling.
Powers have been on the market several years and there has not been a single structural failure to my knowedge.
Race Riders have lapped Puke on standard R1`s in 60 seconds with standard powers.
Me and my mates have been using for 2 years and found them to be the best allround tyre for wear and traction.
As for your Moto GP comments I suggest you log onto the Moto GP site and
get a few more correct facts.

[onearmedbandit]

Not going to argue with that. Not that I would anyway, having used PP's myself for the last two years.

[Sidewinder]

Gidday,

I was out riding the SV yesterday and it just wasn't handling right.

I was beginning to wonder if the front tyre had lost some air pressure (I had checked the pressures at the beginning of the ride, like I do everytime I go out on the bike), so I stopped in Helensville and had a look

WHAT I FOUND REALLY CONCERNED ME

There is a faint line around the entire circumference of the front tyre, just off the centre line, and the tyre is slightly raised when you rub your finger over it from side to side!!!!!!!

A VERY slow ride back home followed and I will be going into the dealer that I purchased the tyre from to see what they think.

The tyre is about 1/3 worn, and I am more of a cruiser on the roads so it hasn't been punished in any way.

The tyre is a Pilot Power 120/70 ZR17 Made in Spain

Here is a photo of the tyre and the line, a couple of mm from the arrow, note the way that the line moves around the tread showing that this is not the result of something scoring the tyre.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/kiwi60/tyreline.jpg

I strongly recommend, that in light of the failures that Michelin has been having with both road tyres and the high profile Rossi MotoGP front tyre problem, that all Michelin users check your tyres immediatley.

I'll keep you posted with the response of the tyre shop and Michelin.

Cheers

how much would you sell this to me for?

[homer]

i have pilot road on my 1200 am wouldnt buy one again i dont like the feel of 2 different tyres going from cnr to cnr they have a line in them as well but not as notice able as yours

[steveb64]

The line you mention is a static discharge line.
With silicum based compounds a discharge point is neccessary.
It will have no effect on the handling.
Powers have been on the market several years and there has not been a single structural failure to my knowedge.


Static discharge line? That got my curiosity bump working... so I did some searches on "static discharge lines". Found this bit, about forecourt fires (caused by static discharge)...

This second path is from the car body via the tyres to the dissipative forecourt area.
As a consequence, the tyres are to have a sufficiently low leakage resistance. This is the case for the old tyres filled with soot, but not for some silica tyres produced around 1993.
However, after the tyre manufacturers have realised this recommendation, silica filled tyres as are now available are usually sufficiently dissipative. Due to the conductive dirt on our streets (salt, minerals and soot), the tyres of 1993, if still in use, now usually are sufficiently dissipative.


Also found this, from Dunlop, about their Dunlop Sport SP 01 CAR tyres:

n addition a so-called BasePen is integrated in the silica tread. At its base, this ring of a conventional soot mixture just a few millimetres wide that runs round the centre of the tread is linked with the base layer of the two-layer tread, which contains no silica. Functioning as a conductor, it ensures a reliable discharge of static electricity and thereby protects both passengers and vehicle electronics from electromagnetic effects.


But damn me - I couldn't find ANYTHING about static discharge lines on motorcycle tyres. I did find lots about Michelin failures - including this photo: Err bugger - it wouldn't paste - OK This link to a forum thread...
http://sportsbiker.co.uk/forums/permalink/17766/17766/ShowThread.aspx

...which has a photo of the tyre which sparked the recall.

Now, I'm NOT a Michelin hater - In fact I have been running them on the Ducati since I bought it - Hi Sports and Hi Sport race compounds once the original shite M58's needed replacing - but have switched to Pirelli Diablos (currently on second rear, just fitted second new front) - which I've fallen in love with. :niceone: The previous front was a Diablo Corsa, which worked well for me until 2/3 worn, and I started getting some nasty front end slides - culminating in dropping it in the wet at Taupo having a gentle ride around... so back to a regular Diablo, as they are recommended as being a much better wet tyre...

The big difference I found between the Michelins and the Diablos - the chicken strip on the side became a LOT narrower with the Diablos, and I started grinding bits of exhaust on the road...:oi-grr: The Michelins (sorry, can't comment on the Pilots) always felt a little vague in the front - though the difference between the OEM tyres and the Hi Sports was like going from touring tyres to slicks! :cool: ... and they saved my arse once, when I went into a corner WAY too fast, discovered it was a decreasing radius, and all I could do was lay it over (on a seal surface that was all ripped up and missing bits of the top layer - just like on NZ roads - but I was in the UK at the time) - and just sailed around the corner with left boot zizzing along the road surface (still on peg!). Not even a twitch.