What are the rules exactly?

[GaZBur]

Can anybody point me in the right direction for the rules for road racing. I mean when you can expect to hold your line and when you are required to make room for another rider etc...
I have a hard copy of the MNZ rulebook but can't find where on track rules are
http://www.mnz.co.nz/competitionrules.aspx
OK, so its not as if I am likely to lose a World Championship point in a protest but it would be good to know when I should assert my line or back off.

[Maarty]

Can anybody point me in the right direction for the rules for road racing. I mean when you can expect to hold your line and when you are required to make room for another rider etc...
I have a hard copy of the MNZ rulebook but can't find where on track rules are
http://www.mnz.co.nz/competitionrules.aspx
OK, so its not as if I am likely to lose a World Championship point in a protest but it would be good to know when I should assert my line or back off.

There are no defined rules, the best advise I ever got was "hold your line". You are no required to concede, the onus is on the overtaking rider, in other words, it is their job to get pass you. The worst thing you can do is be constantly turning around looking for the faster guys coming through. you can usually anticipate them by seeing their lap boards coming out as you near the pit staight but don't make any sudden moves as these guys have already sized you up and have a plan to pass, you making an unexpected move could put all of you at risk of an accident. Just hold your line and let them figure out how to get past.

[Grub]

This year MNZ introduced the use of the Blue Flag. This is the same that has been used in auto racing for ever. The blue flag will tell you that there is a faster rder coming at you from behind. As Maarty said, it's the overtaking rider's responcibility to keep clear so just hold your line.

[Sully60]

GazBur your question really brings to light what I think is an issue of lack of instruction of rules and track behavior.
To road race in NZ all you have to do is join a club,fill in the form and send it to MNZ with some money,get your license and away you go.
If you want to drive you need a learners license and to get that you need to demonstrate (some) competence by passing a scratchy test.

At most club meetings I've been at they hold a first timers extra briefing but apart from this, guidance from Stewards during race days and the Mentors of the sport were do people get access to this knowledge?

My involvement in the events of 24 July 2005 at Manfield made me really think about this. Without speculating to much about that incident I think that things may have been different if people were instructed about things like ALWAYS looking as far up the track as possible, not at the guy beside you or your tacho for longer than you should, holding your lines etc etc, all the stuff that guys who have been around a while do without any thought.

I believe MNZ should implement some form of basic race track competency test. Motorsport NZ has such as system I don't know the details of how it works but the test wouldn't have to be any harder than the road learner licence scratchy test.

I know people may react to this negatively and I have no idea if MNZ would have the resources to implement such a thing without increasing fees etc but I do think its worth discussion.

[fatboy1]

I agree that this is an issue that needs to be addressed. I have raised this directly with the MNZ road race commissioner during the great debate on the the street stock tyre rules. Best thing to do is let Paul Stewart (MNZ road race commissioner) hear your concerns and views, more voices may get a basic intro or guidelines book for new comers to the sport and it should cover all facets not just road racing.

Other than the what to do when been passed other issues may be the use of clear hand (or foot) signals to advise other competitors what you are doing, what to do if you fall off or brake down, basic bike set up advice etc etc.

I would be interested in hearing from some people that recently joined the racing game to tell me of what was explained to them and or how they found out what was expected re the issues above. I am happy to collect data and views and forward these with a formal submission to the MNZ board for discussion.

[Paul in NZ]

I have no opinion on this, only a question....

My limited experience fron track days is that mixted types of bikes can cause problems in this regards as well. Old bikes, sports bikes and motards all take a slightly different approach to corners which can lead to a few interesting moments for all parties.... Again, I guess it's up to the overtaking party to make sure and leave enough sea room but really the faster guys feel they have priority and it often gets 'ugly'....

[Goblin]

Nobody knows!!!:no:

[roogazza]

There are no defined rules, the best advise I ever got was "hold your line". You are no required to concede, the onus is on the overtaking rider, in other words, it is their job to get pass you. The worst thing you can do is be constantly turning around looking for the faster guys coming through. you can usually anticipate them by seeing their lap boards coming out as you near the pit staight but don't make any sudden moves as these guys have already sized you up and have a plan to pass, you making an unexpected move could put all of you at risk of an accident. Just hold your line and let them figure out how to get past.

+1 for that Maarty, If you are a beginner take it slow ,think what you're doing, watch what goes on at a couple of meetings. Common sense is a wonderful thing. It takes time , so take the time. Gaz.

[roadracingoldfart]

The best way i can describe what to do when being passed by a faster rider is as follows......

If the faster rider comes past you on the straight then no action needs to be taken but be aware another faster rider may also be about to pass you. Keep your line and dont TRY to move out of the way as that can cause problems as Marty said above. The onus is on the passing rider to make it safe and effect the pass without risk.

If you find you have a faster rider going around or under you in a corner then its safe to assume YOU already have YOUR line established and so does the faster rider. If you both stay with what you are doing then alls well. No action needed.

If the same situation occurs during braking its not a good idea to try and show your braking skills (as has been done many times) and take out another rider in doing it. Just continue as you have been during the previous laps as this is where you are happiest and more than likely safest within your own ability/skill level.

Above all dont slow down and stare back over your shoulder during a corner as you can find the edge of the track in a few seconds and thats messy for everybody, it may cause a red flag if your in a dangerous place at the side of the track. Also you have to repair your bike and thats no fun.

Racing is meant to be fun and thats why a certain amout of it is done under a general guideline and not a hard and fast rule writen for every situation. If we all act with common sense and treat our sport as being able to hurt us if we cock up then im sure we can all learn from others and our own experiances as they occur. Nobody out on the track wants to get hurt or cause hurt to another person.

If you have an issue with a rider that may have passed you or carved you up a bit much , dont go and confront said rider but ask the riders rep of the day to help sort it out. If you do it to somebody else then go and buy the guy / girl a coffee and say ooppps sorry but also learn from it.

Many clubs have an effective BUDDY system running and questions and help can be obtained easily, although every second person may have a differant angle of a given situation / question its still possible to get a balanced informed judgement to answer your original queary, if we cant do that then i feel a definate need to ask "should i be doing this " .

Read up on racecraft ( ie Kieth Code etc) and attend a training course to learn whats expected of you and what you can expect from others.

Stay Safe , Paul.

[Maarty]

I have no opinion on this, only a question....

My limited experience fron track days is that mixted types of bikes can cause problems in this regards as well. Old bikes, sports bikes and motards all take a slightly different approach to corners which can lead to a few interesting moments for all parties.... Again, I guess it's up to the overtaking party to make sure and leave enough sea room but really the faster guys feel they have priority and it often gets 'ugly'....

Just hold your line!
If the fast guys think they have dibs, they don't! You have paid your money like everyone else and you have just as much right to be there.
If you are feeling pressured then you could look at another class, not because you don't deserve to be there but just for you own peice of mind. Clubmans is always a good start as everyone is generally in the same boat.
Lastely, don't think that you carn't ask the faster guys for advice! if the fob you off then they are jerks, if they help you out, thank them! they had to start somewhere too remember! Just be aware that the fast guys are sometimes very busy and picking your moment helps, lunchtime is usually a good time.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I am going to a course this Saturday run by Motorcycling Canty which I hope will cover this sort of stuff. Worst case scenario is I get fast guys giving me tips on Saturday, plus a bunch of laps, best case is I become Freddie Spencer overnight.

[GaZBur]

+1 for that Maarty, If you are a beginner take it slow ,think what you're doing, watch what goes on at a couple of meetings. Common sense is a wonderful thing. It takes time , so take the time. Gaz.
I am sort of a beginner again having raced in the 70's and 80's but getting back into it just for fun. Done some club events this year including a couple of gravel and 5 motard days. Good advise to take it slow - but you know how it is sometimes when you get on the track you leave your brains in the pits. The reason I am asking about the rules is last time I was caught out in the first corner sandwiched between two other bikes all going for the same line so I am guessing I should have backed off before it became crunch time, but as it was a tight Kart track with relatively modest speeds we were all just a bit over aggressive. I will be off to the big tracks (Teretonga and Levels) over the next two months or so and just wanted some clarification so I didn't cause anybody any grief or end up breaking things like bikes or bones when the speeds get higher.
I have learned the "take is slow" lesson the hard way!
Fortunatley the next 2 large track events are 'Have a Go' days with coaching available - so I will be making the most of the advise and coaching I can get there. I think these sort of events are a brilliant idea for us newer riders to ease our way in.

[oyster]

People down south have probably observed that in Streetstock the young and new riders are very carefully introduced to the sport with plenty of coaching, on track monitoring and correction as their skills and understanding develops. As one of the coaches involved I'd love to see the knowledge of a wider group all collated and turned into a manual that benefit's all new riders entering the sport. NZ is probably the ONLY country in the world that just issues a licence and just let's people out there. Unfortuntely make this kind of manual needs money and a lot of time from key people, the same ones that are already overworked (and emptying their pockets) out there doing it. This need has been discussed with MNZ but they can't / won't help so down here we're currently looking for a sponsor to get it done independently. Can anyone help here?

[oyster]

I have a lot of experience of being lapped.....
With our juniors we teach them to observe all their usual lines, keep it as smooth and predictable as possible, at all times. Before the blue flag rule came along, we'd say that after a few laps and then you're likely to be lapped, then alter your lines a tiny wee bit by leaving a metre on the inside, and the same on the entry / exit to the kerb. This allows a passing rider who makes a mistake of speed / distance judgement an "out" with an assurred last minute bit of track. This little gap rarely changes much for the rider being passed.
Now we have blue flags, then same deal. I really think MNZ should make a recommendation along these lines re the correct response to the "blue flagged rider"

[Hoon]

If you are talking racing then ALWAYS hold your line. It's up to the passing rider to try get past you - you are under no obligation to make it any easier for them. If there are three riders competing for the same piece of tarmac then the bravest usually wins. However it can also end in tears so backing down isn't so bad but will cost you places in the long run.

If you are about to get lapped then thats a different story. Having never been in that situation before I can't really comment :clap:........haha yeah I wish but seriously still hold your line. I like to give the guy just enough room to pass me on either side if he wishes as long as it doesn't mess up my line.

On track days you can be a bit more lenient. If a slower rider is holding you up and starting to frustrate you, its better to back off half a lap instead of taking a risk for zero gain.

[mechano]

Stolen from slowpoke, stolen from www.tz250racing.com, stolen from bonelli

Passing as an art
By Gregg Bonelli

If you race very long you inevitably notice a pattern about races: You start, then you pass everyone you can, everyone who can pass you does so, and then you ride to the end and see where you finish. If you are a beginner, almost all your concentration has to be devoted to going fast and dealing with the track, not with other riders.

If you were not expecting to be passed, then when you are it’s somewhat startling, particularly if you were doing all you could and someone comes along and takes away a vital part of the track you had intended to use in just a moment. Passing and being passed in a turn is a moment of supreme risk.

Yet there are those who pass you without regard for your safety and intentionally set out to disrupt your riding just because they can. This was something I saw at AHRMA races this past season, which should worry all of us. The purpose of this article is to see what can be done about it.

Let’s begin at the critical moment of the pass—a faster bike approaches a slower one from behind. The speed differential may be due to rider skill, machine capabilities, track familiarity or any number of other causes. Whatever the reason, one machine is about to overtake another, and the manner in which it is done speaks volumes about the riders.

After a long racing career I am not ashamed to admit to being passed by some of the greatest riders of our time. As an AMA Expert I saw Kenny Roberts come on the scene as a Junior and dominate roadracing. I was on the grid with him and others who made it a habit to pass me at every opportunity. I would gladly have done the same to them, of course, but seldom could.

What I noticed about being passed by them was that I had to do absolutely nothing different than what I was already doing for a safe pass to happen. They came and went without bothering me in the slightest. I did not have to change lines or grab a handful of brake or even let off the throttle, because they had already calculated my speed and line and theirs, and knew it was going to work out. It had better; it was their responsibility to see to it.

Passing, then as now, is one of the skills that makes roadracing continually challenging. My job, as a rider being passed, is to maintain the integrity of their calculations by not changing anything. That’s right, all I have to do is press on as hard as I can at what I was already doing and I will be protected and safe. Of course, there is one factor with two expressions that can make all this go wrong—rider judgement. If the guy being passed changes something during the pass, and contact occurs, then it’s his fault. Changing your line or throttle setting or braking in a turn while someone is in the process of passing you is asking for trouble.

Why? He is faster here than you or he would not be passing. That being true, he has the only view of both bikes as he approaches and he alone can make calculations about where you will be when he passes. If you alter that calculation after he has committed to the corner and the pass, then you caused the consequences that come after. Simple enough: Protect yourself during passes by keeping on doing what you were already doing as if the other rider was not even there.

I know some of you are thinking that this is going to cause trouble because Joker “A” passed you at such and such last year, and if you hadn’t grabbed the brakes and avoided hitting him you both would have gone down. Maybe that is true for you, but this is about what the art of passing should be, not about some failure of it as applied to you.

I want to add here that there is nothing intuitive about this. When I hit the banking at Daytona on a TZ750 the first time and Roberts passed me a mile later at 180, I was petrified. I knew he was good, but I wasn’t sure I was good enough to be on the track with him. If I made some stupid unexpected move we were both going to pay for it, so holding my machine steady (and leaving room at the edges) was a necessity. I also should add that he would pass incredibly close, but we never touched. He just came and went, and I kept doing what I had before he was there. His was a standard I still aspire to today. (continued)

[mechano]

Passing as an art
By Gregg Bonelli

(continued)

Contrast that with my experience at Talladega last season. I’m riding along passing folks as I go, and I come upon this guy and pass him on the inside, nothing close. Instead of keeping his line, he straightens up, gives up on the corner and hits me. Boom. I’m off the track and dealing with the grass while he goes on. So I come back up to him in a few moments and try again. This time I set him up to take the outside first, then go inside. Boom. He hit me again as soon as I am in front of him by going straight off the turn to the edge of the track. I manage to avoid falling, but he’s two for two with me. I let him alone until we come to the straight, and I pass him there.

Now, it’s obvious to me that this rider is either a novice or a hazard. His reaction to being passed was that he must immediately do something different, not to keep doing the same thing he was doing. As a result, my calculations about where he would be were out the window. Add to that his apparent target fixation on the bike sharing the corner with him, and you have a recipe for unnecessary contact.

The point of all this is safety. We at AHRMA have a mixed grid of machines and riders for almost every race. Some bikes are faster than others, and the same is true of riders. Every time we pass someone we should strive to set an example to them and to everyone watching of what an art passing can be. The measure of that art is the degree of disruption you caused when you passed. If the other rider could keep on doing just what he had been doing, as if you had not come and gone, then you have made a masterful pass, and he should appreciate it as much as you should.

It’s a small world for us on the track, and there’s not just courtesy to be considered—some day in some other corner that guy you just passed may be passing you, and if you did a bad job of it and left a bad impression, he may leave one on you as well. That is what we don’t need in this sport.
Secrets of the master passer
We all have corners that seem to match our particular sensibilities. You may be a whiz at flat-out sweeping bends but cannot get out of your own way in a first-gear righthander. That being true, when you pass your way forward in a race to the point that you can no longer catch those in front of you and those behind cannot catch you, you know which corners you have wired and which still need work.

If you are smart, and if you can go to school on the guy in front of you, and if he has faster lines in corners where you are not catching him but you have faster lines in other corners (because you always catch back up to him there), then to get past him just learn his lines and use them. Remember, he hasn’t seen your faster lines, so timing may be a consideration; if you think you may not get much further up in the results, it may be wise to wait until the last lap to make your pass, so he does not have the opportunity to return the favor.

Ever been caught late in the race by someone you thought you had passed and left behind? Wonder how he did it? Now you know.

As a final point, there comes the question of what to do with those who do not subscribe to this orderly view of how we should apply our skills. You know them. They pass any way and any time they can, and call it racing. If someone gets knocked down, that’s just tough and their own fault for being slow.

Here is my solution to that problem. There comes a time in a corner with this sort of rider when he has failed to calculate or even consider your position in the turn and contact is imminent. You have been left with the choice of hitting him or falling yourself. Do you have to save him from his own lack of skill by letting him go on his way at your expense?

I say no, and here is why. Imagine a conversation afterward when you are asked about the resulting crash because you did not take evasive action. In response to being asked what you did when he appeared in the turn with you, you could say either that you kept doing just what you had been doing, or you could say you attempted to take evasive action and lost control. The former speaks of your skill and composure. The fault is his for the miscalculation which caused the contact. The latter puts the blame on you for losing control of a situation that was beyond your control to begin with. There is one additional benefit to the first choice—the onus of the mistake of the passing rider stays with him, and that may mean all the way to the ground. If it is his fault it happened, then better him than you.

Racing is not safe and never will be. Risking the limits of speed has its own hazards and all of us have learned a lesson here or there by falling down while dealing with them. Some of us have also been put on the ground through no fault of our own by some predatory passing. The first is unavoidable, the second unforgivable. Some people die when they fall, some are crippled for life. Nobody wants that to happen to anyone. Let’s clean up our passes and make the effort to demonstrate our skill at every opportunity, not just by running up front but also by how we got there.

[slowpoke]

Haha, I musta posted the link as mechano posted the article, anyway here was the original thread:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=43094

I have done bugger all race meetings but got my race licence in Western Australia where they had quite a well structured introduction to road racing.
It doesn't matter how quick you are you do introductory and advanced Racecraft sessions, which are just trackdays run by the road racing club where very basic tuition is provided. Nothing too heavy just suggested lines, bike prep, things to concentrate on etc. So two trackdays with the last having a basic theory test on flags and what to do and not do and a practical test on the track and you've got your licence. It's nothing to do with speed just demonstrate that you aren't a danger to anyone with your lousy bike control and that you don't freak out when passed etc.
Just basic stuff that has everyone reading from the same page when they enter a race.
It works well for all concerned 'cos the club makes a bit of money from those just interested in the trackday plus get a few who want to go on to get a licence. They have even been proactive and got a sponsor on board (Belray) who get exposure for their product while giving helpful information (and freebies) regarding oils and fluids in a racing environment. It's a winner for everybody.

[roogazza]

I am sort of a beginner again having raced in the 70's and 80's but getting back into it just for fun. Done some club events this year including a couple of gravel and 5 motard days. Good advise to take it slow - but you know how it is sometimes when you get on the track you leave your brains in the pits. The reason I am asking about the rules is last time I was caught out in the first corner sandwiched between two other bikes all going for the same line so I am guessing I should have backed off before it became crunch time, but as it was a tight Kart track with relatively modest speeds we were all just a bit over aggressive. I will be off to the big tracks (Teretonga and Levels) over the next two months or so and just wanted some clarification so I didn't cause anybody any grief or end up breaking things like bikes or bones when the speeds get higher.
I have learned the "take is slow" lesson the hard way!
Fortunatley the next 2 large track events are 'Have a Go' days with coaching available - so I will be making the most of the advise and coaching I can get there. I think these sort of events are a brilliant idea for us newer riders to ease our way in.

Sorry mate I thought you were a learner and obviously you've been at it before ? The take slow was not a go slow, but take your time to learn what goes on . So many seem to be in a hurry to be "Rossi". I've done a bit of this stuff and still have fun in clubmans , thats what its about right ? Gaz.

[NordieBoy]

I love people coming up behind me and yelling "GET OUT OF THE WAY!!!".
a) If you caught me then you can pass me yourself.
c) I'm busy at the moment, please leave a message and I'll get back to you later.
d) If I'm aware of you then I may indicate which side you'd be safer passing on.

My only serious(ish) crash was when I looked behind and ended up in an extremely rocky water table on the inside of a corner.

Some people are great, waiting for a bit of clear track, or acknowledging you if you shake a leg for them to pass on that side.
Others will stuff you up the inside and roost away on a 3 hour cross country to save 5 seconds.

[GaZBur]

Sorry mate I thought you were a learner and obviously you've been at it before ? The take slow was not a go slow, but take your time to learn what goes on . So many seem to be in a hurry to be "Rossi". I've done a bit of this stuff and still have fun in clubmans , thats what its about right ? Gaz.
No offence was taken as I still consider myself a learner. I am usually willing to push the envelope a bit to learn faster though - even though it involves pain sometimes for trying too hard too soon. But as you can see I am not on a competitive machine (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=12194) and closing in on 50 have given up any dream of becomming a Rossi, it just takes too damn long to recover these days. But - I do enter every event I and my bike are eligible for just for the fun of competing.

[FROSTY]

My honest opinion is that everybody who goes racing should try at least one trackday before hand.
Im not pushing my own barrow here just that all the trackdays (other than Pukie open days) are run very close to the same as a race meeting so you get a very good idea of what you are up against