Project Sprinter, What Bike??

[Paul in NZ]

This is probably in the wrong forum but it's too general to be in the specific one (yet)

With the FZR400 pretty well sorted and a clear understanding of what has to happen to the Moto Guzzi next (basic stuff = no drama) my mind is wandering to 'other' things...

Roadracing is cool but I have neither the time, build, budget nor the interest to do much there... Moto Cross - I'm too old and banged up... Sprinting?? Well now, that 'could' be fun as long as you don't try and top 300kph which is when it get werry wexpensiph!

So - why not consider, how fast could something daft like a GN250 be made to go?

This train of thought leads to several questions.

1. Could i run a non street legal bike at the wairarapa sprints?

2. Could I run a purposed degined bike with a one off or modified frame?

3. Could anyone suggest a suitably laughable project starting point. It would need to be common, cheaply availiable, SIMPLE, have a relatively solid bottom end and chain drive and probably 250cc or 400cc would be the limit.

Multi's like the FZR could probably be made to go too fast too easily - I want a semi streamliner, Burt Munro kinda creation.....

So - if anyone has any ideas... Or a donor machine.... Post away....

[tri boy]

Personally, I'd base it around a four stroke single of the 70s-80s era. Strong bottom ends that could handle maybe a Methanol breathing overbored engine that could be flowed and cammed to within a mm of its life.:headbang:
If something goes "Bang", generally the cranks could take it, and there should be enough cheap parts around.
TT/XT/DR/XR etc. Fixing one cylinder is alot cheaper than a multi, plus a finely tuned single gains much respect IMHO.:first:

[merv]

Yeah well if you follow Burt's example you would start off with something like a GN and set an intial target of say let's make the real ton - which you should be able to achieve with a warmer engine and a better (read lowered) chassis. Then you can iron out the bugs and then start thinking of streamlining and set a target of say the old 150mph and sure I doubt you'd quite aim for the 200 club.

Whatever you are getting close to legend status already given what you did with the FZR.

[Paul in NZ]

Personally, I'd base it around a four stroke single of the 70s-80s era. Strong bottom ends that could handle maybe a Methanol breathing overbored engine that could be flowed and cammed to within a mm of its life.:headbang:
If something goes "Bang", generally the cranks could take it, and there should be enough cheap parts around.
TT/XT/DR/XR etc. Fixing one cylinder is alot cheaper than a multi, plus a finely tuned single gains much respect IMHO.:first:

Thats pretty much what i was thinking!

I'd hope to go with something with a degree of relative interchangability.. ie all those engines came in various sizes meaning you could (with a bit of machining) build short stroke, long stroke, big bore etc... Down side is trail bike stuff costs a fortune as it's always getting busted and there is a big demand.

The plan is to start basic and try and improve it every year. I reckon it would be a hoot...

I notice there are a few two stokes becoming availiable these days but they just don't have the appeal of the worls fastest GN250 or honda postie bike

[imdying]

I notice there are a few two stokes becoming availiable these days but they just don't have the appeal of the worlds fastest GN250 or honda postie bikeTotally feeling ya... people who think bike start and end with the latest and greatest are totally missing out on a lot.

[tri boy]

One or two other considerations for me, would be,
Two valve heads. (standard valves can be binned, and theres more "meat" available to reshape to your requirements).
Heaps of work has already been done on such engines, and knowledge is readily available.
Single, or twin maybe, but if your changing carbs, ignition systems that can deliver the go that you desire, then less is best cost wise.(old smooth bore yz/IT carbs were a favourite as they adapted well to the extra flow rate of Methanol, Krober Igns were Ok, but I'm sure there are better ones now.
(Hell, I'm getting half a mongrel just thinking about such a project):drool::crazy:

[Paul in NZ]

Wow... Sounds like there is a lot of info out there already...

I just need to find a donor now.... Anyone got any clues on a suitable hulk?

OR....

Really - what we are talking about is bucket sprinting isn't it?? We could be onto something here....

[riffer]

Feeling brave?

What about this?
(http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Classic-vintage/auction-119891875.htm)

[Paul in NZ]

I'll check when i get home mate - no trademe at work...

[riffer]

I was pushing it a bit. It's a 1984 Darmah, mostly in pieces.

However, there's another on the site which may be a good starter.

$3700 though, its probably more than you want to pay, but heck its a good place to start:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-119941135.htm

MUZ Scorpion Sport 660cc
Asking price: $3700, Or Near Offer
Closes: Wed, 10 Oct

Award winning, liquid cooled, 5 valve Yamaha Xtz660 engine.
Economical commuter or sport single,
Paioli 41mm front forks, preload-adjustable rising rate rear shock, Grimeca dual opposed piston brakes with braided steel lines.
One owner, excellent condition, always garaged with service history,spares including stainless steel exhaust and bar end mirrors.

I reckon this is damn close to what you need to be building. Especially with the XT660 engine.

[imdying]

Really - what we are talking about is bucket sprinting isn't it?? We could be onto something here....There's a good multipurpose plan :yes:

FXR150... just like the Britten... minimal bodywork for bucket racing... 3 layers of 95gm dual twin carbon dustbin bodywork for sprints :yes:

[Paul in NZ]

MZ's are seriously cool but too expensive - too 'factory'.... As for the ducati? bwahahahaha.. oh gawd... no.... please..... I'm a moto guzzi guy - you trying to get me assasinated?

Nah - THIS tickles me fancy - a Honda Rebel 250...... Needs a longer chassis, add a fairing.....

[skelstar]

Something like this Paul would be good for the event even.

<img src="http://www.motosolvang.com/images_new/large/1955_Moto-Guzzi-V8.jpg" />

What can you buy GB400's for these days?

[tri boy]

Really - what we are talking about is bucket sprinting isn't it?? We could be onto something here....

Sensible expenditure "CAP", then RUN what BRUNG.:woohoo:
(Kannys Volty may mysteriously disappear. lol

[Drew]

I used to own an A100, that I was gonna try and get the ton out of. Figured an expansion chamber, and a real carburator would do the trick, given that an rg150 does it out of the box with reletive reliability.

The four stroke single is definately the way to go, not sure how many of you have been at Manfield the last two rounds, but there's a guy in post classics on what used to be an XR500, mixing it with the front three bikes, a methonol burning GS1000, a tickled GSXR1100, and methonol Z1R.

Theres power to be had, in employing more recent engine technologies.

[riffer]

You know the concept of bucket sprinting is a seriously good one.

A cap of say $2500 and 500cc/single, 350/twin and we could be on to something indeed.

[Drew]

You know the concept of bucket sprinting is a seriously good one.

A cap of say $2500 and 500cc/single, 350/twin and we could be on to something indeed.


A competition you say, now I really wish I had more time!:2guns:

[skelstar]

A cap of say $2500 and 500cc/single, 350/twin and we could be on to something indeed.
Cool idea. The cap would be a hard one to administer though...

[Paul in NZ]

The trick is to limit the power a bit via engine design otherwise the spend on the chassis goes nuts... I talked to the chap up the road that races a GS1000... It owes him $25,000 to $30,000..... erm.... no thanks.... $2,000 shocks on the back.. gulp... (Vicki would kill me and that's what would make it dangerous)

the 400 twins seem to be cheap enough or the GB's....

[Fooman]

John Robinson of Performance Bikes built up a Suzuki GP100 to do 100 mph. I'm sure that woulda made a good bucket sprinter. Might even fit into the F4 rulebook!

Cheers
FM

[Drew]

The trick is to limit the power a bit via engine design otherwise the spend on the chassis goes nuts... I talked to the chap up the road that races a GS1000... It owes him $25,000 to $30,000..... erm.... no thanks.... $2,000 shocks on the back.. gulp... (Vicki would kill me and that's what would make it dangerous)

the 400 twins seem to be cheap enough or the GB's....

My pick...hmmmmm...I think an SRX600 Yamaha would be the go.

I really want to get in on this, but racing\kids\work leave me no money and little time. Perhaps a partenership could be struck. Anyone???

[riffer]

I really want to get in on this, but racing\kids\work leave me no money and little time. Perhaps a partenership could be struck. Anyone???

:weep: I share your pain... I can offer some spanner time but bugger all else. Having four kids means I'm perpetually skint.

Definitely sounds like a plan. All we need is someone with money now LOL.

[tri boy]

Tard Me has a 81 XL500s for approx $600
And a IT490 for about the same(very quick over short distance:devil2:)
Change the wheel sizes, lower and dust bin it, tickle the engine and give it some.:clap:

[Drew]

I NEED TO DEVELOPE AN P HABBIT!!!! To let me use all twenty four hours in the day.

I've got LOADS of Ideas flowing through my head already:argh:

[skelstar]

I've got LOADS of Ideas flowing through my head already:argh:
...and I think we all know where the bottle-neck is there don't we folks?

I can help with electronic gadgets Drew :yes: Playstation GPS anyone? :banana:

[riffer]

So who's got some money!!!!

[tri boy]

So who's got some money!!!!


BIO FUEL companies:sunny:
Great exposure for them if it's done right.:done
Own the fastest 500cc bike running on poo farm scum.
Greenies would love it.:clap:

[skelstar]

Thats a great idea TB. Buckets'n'Bits if they were still in business.

[F5 Dave]

Have to pick something intrinsically cheap but common & not fragile. Old GN250 may sort of fill that need, but they did tend to kill themselves by rattling their heads to death, maybe that is more a symptom of the owners & maintenance.

XR500s are expensive & kill cranks & crankcases when hotted up. Pete has been modifying his for well over a decade & is a very experienced tuner & owns a wrecking business so has a handle on the spare parts avenue.

The GP PB did was a 125. To reach 100mph you need about 25bhp in a std small bike. Probably a GN with 18 real bhp could hit this in a streamliner/kneeler arrangement.

[tri boy]

Can see the flyer now.
"The (insert company) Bio Fuel NZ Summer Bucket Sprint Champs"
:woohoo::sunny::woohoo::sunny::woohoo:

[deanohit]

Hhhhmmm, got me thinking how fast my bike could go now. 200cc of chinese crap. Maybe a hotted XR250 motor could be the go. Dunno bout streamlining though. I think your onto a good idea though, should be alot of fun.:niceone:
Ya could streamline this. GN250 motor and already stretched long and low. Just get rid of those handle bars first.:devil2:

[Drew]

Thats a great idea TB. Buckets'n'Bits if they were still in business.

I'm not sure Bryce would be into it, he's a hands on kinda guy, and I think the last thing he wants to do, is piss about with a bitsa in his spare time. Having said that, if somebody is serious about doing this, I consider Bryce a mate, and I'll ask him on your behalf. (Dunno if that's how he sees me, but I'm not that well liked anyway, so I can handle being told to sod off:bye:)

[skelstar]

Was thinking more in the sponsorship/donation area I guess.

[Drew]

Was thinking more in the sponsorship/donation area I guess.

Dunno how long I'd be allowed to scavenge through the warehouse before he did the maths on what it's potentially costing him, but again, I can ask.

Having said that, I wont be asking, if it's for a halfarsed backyard cowboy who's never finished a project in there life. Ergo, that counts me out as team leader:(

[Paul in NZ]

Have to pick something intrinsically cheap but common & not fragile. Old GN250 may sort of fill that need, but they did tend to kill themselves by rattling their heads to death, maybe that is more a symptom of the owners & maintenance.

XR500s are expensive & kill cranks & crankcases when hotted up. Pete has been modifying his for well over a decade & is a very experienced tuner & owns a wrecking business so has a handle on the spare parts avenue.

The GP PB did was a 125. To reach 100mph you need about 25bhp in a std small bike. Probably a GN with 18 real bhp could hit this in a streamliner/kneeler arrangement.


Pretty much my thinking thus far....

Of course.....

There is the mighty CB450 that lives in my garage.......... hmmmmmmmm, I wonder... (oh gawd)

OK - lets look at it differently then.. FZR400/250 or anything similar that you can buy race fairings for that has an alloy beam frame with a rooted engine. Find GN250 / trail bike / CB250/400, KH400/440 donk and voila??

The std twin shock type tube frame would be easier to modify though...

[Drew]

The std twin shock type tube frame would be easier to modify though...

And lighter\able. The only reason you cant make a GN handle is because of the weak as piss frame, luckily, corners are not the aim here, so it will do for the job.

My understanding is you wanna drop whatever to the ground, steel is easiest to work with for this purpose. A couple of pit bike wheels should be thin enough to create less drag, yet stable enough since it's unlikely to break 200ks without a serious budget blow out.

[F5 Dave]

Dunno how long I'd be allowed to scavenge through the warehouse before he did the maths on what it's potentially costing him, but again, I can ask.

Having said that, I wont be asking, if it's for a halfarsed backyard cowboy who's never finished a project in there life. Ergo, that counts me out as team leader:(


Ask him what he has in his pre-burnt section. May luck upon a cheap R1 engine.:lol:

[Drew]

Ask him what he has in his pre-burnt section. May luck upon a cheap R1 engine.:lol:

Might find an MV Augusta too, mbut lets not get our hopes up eh

[merv]

I used to own an A100, that I was gonna try and get the ton out of. Figured an expansion chamber, and a real carburator would do the trick, given that an rg150 does it out of the box with reletive reliability.

The four stroke single is definately the way to go, not sure how many of you have been at Manfield the last two rounds, but there's a guy in post classics on what used to be an XR500, mixing it with the front three bikes, a methonol burning GS1000, a tickled GSXR1100, and methonol Z1R.

Theres power to be had, in employing more recent engine technologies.

Nice one, back when I had more hair and rode an A100 myself my hero of the day was Tony Burrell (RIP) from Napier who was NZ 125 champion on his worked over A100.

The Honda 500 as F5Dave has mentioned is Pete Sales bike and he goes very well at Wanganui.

Man Paul you have a lot of options really, just got to find the right donor to start on. The CB450 might be a goer but I don't remember them ever really cutting it very well as a race engine unlike the CB77 before them.

[skelstar]

Koba (Malcom) has a big thumper in an NSR (?) chassis which he is selling soon I think.

[Bonez]

How about a gb400 chassis with NX650 donk?

[Deano]

Paul, the bike doesn't need a WOF to compete in the Cliff Hanger sprints, but it must pass scrutineering. I will double check the MNZ rules on hybrid bikes also but I don't believe it is an issue.

I can also attest to the big single theory - Chris Sales is #1 in Post Classic Junior on an old XR500 (VMCC) - I have heard it is quite highly strung but it sure has some poke.

[merv]

Deano doesn't Chris ride the Suzuki TM400 not the Honda? Pete is on the Honda isn't he or does Chris have one too or is it the same bike?

[limbimtimwim]

Suzuki TS185ER engine. Plenty of poke. And simple.

[tri boy]

Stripped back a XR500RB? (one with the reed block in the throat),
Lighten it, kitted the top end with wiseco slug, ground cam, ported head, and a Old CR smooth bore.
27" headers into a supertrapp muffler.
Oooweee that thing would get up. 860Gt Ducati of Jimmy "the Lizard" couldn't pull away in a straight line.(Av gas helps:cool:)

Sorry bout the pic quality, it was back in 86.

[Drew]

Was thinkin tonight on the way into work, the GB500 is probably the cheapest way to go. There are hundreds of them around, the wiseco XR kits would be findable around the world, and steel frame makes it chopable.

[skelstar]

Apparently KB one went for about $600. Could be wrong though.

[klingon]

Kannys Volty may mysteriously disappear. lol

:nono:The Volty police are watching you... :Police:

[F5 Dave]

Deano doesn't Chris ride the Suzuki TM400 not the Honda? Pete is on the Honda isn't he or does Chris have one too or is it the same bike?
Sometimes Chris rides his Dad's bike but Pete built them both.
Speedpro had quite a hot CB450, think he sold it on not long ago, but would be worth asking if one went that way. really I think one would want to start a spreadsheet & say ok if we go this way we could use all these aftermarket parts, or ok who is paying for this? Maybe we'll just get out the grinder & get that 250 Rebel singing?

Some confusion, I thought you were talking straightline sprint, Deano is assuming hillclimb. Changes the structure somewhat & the tyre/suspension budget.

[Drew]

Some confusion, I thought you were talking straightline sprint, Deano is assuming hillclimb. Changes the structure somewhat & the tyre/suspension budget.

Nope, Dean is talking about the sprints, run by Cliffhanger promotions, the same people that do the hill climb. He was just answering the question about bike requirments.

[F5 Dave]

Daww! that makes more sense.

I must run my 50 sometime & see what it is capable of. Would be kinda fun to chase the 50cc record. Happens to be owned by aforementioned Pete Sales. -Clever chappie.

[skelstar]

There was a prize handed out for the fastest under 50cc run on Sunday (27 secs flying I think?).

Hmm...

[Drew]

There was a prize handed out for the fastest under 50cc run on Sunday (27 secs flying I think?).

Hmm...

I've got a couple pit bikes here, wonder if I could streamline one and take that title in November.

I'd expect an RG50 to cane it tho.

What other obscure classes could be entered?

[Deano]

Yeah I was talking straight line sprints.

Chris Sales has a TM400 and XR500. The XR is shitloads faster than the TM...otherwise I would be sitting in first place in PC Junior.

[xwhatsit]

How about a gb400 chassis with NX650 donk?

Did you see that German website (in English), they put two of them together. Really beautifully done. Sounds absolutely mint. Will try and track down the link... the name `Schottmeier' keeps coming into my head?

EDIT: Yep, I was right -- http://lovik.tripod.com/Clubman6-schottmeier.html

[skelstar]

...otherwise I would be sitting in first place in PC Junior.
Ya just have to lean forward and grit your teeth more Deano ;)

[F5 Dave]

Yeah the TM is of course Period 72 eligible & the XR period 82.

If I ever have kids I'll make sure mine is faster too:clap:

Hmm, maybe a crashed VT250 would be the go. Steel frame, perky thin engine, prolly not too expensive if largely destroyed (ie: uneconomic to fix to road form). Would easily be 100mph capable if in the right frame, maybe an ambitious 120 target.

[koba]

I was pushing it a bit. It's a 1984 Darmah, mostly in pieces.

However, there's another on the site which may be a good starter.

$3700 though, its probably more than you want to pay, but heck its a good place to start:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-119941135.htm

MUZ Scorpion Sport 660cc
Asking price: $3700, Or Near Offer
Closes: Wed, 10 Oct

Award winning, liquid cooled, 5 valve Yamaha Xtz660 engine.
Economical commuter or sport single,
Paioli 41mm front forks, preload-adjustable rising rate rear shock, Grimeca dual opposed piston brakes with braided steel lines.
One owner, excellent condition, always garaged with service history,spares including stainless steel exhaust and bar end mirrors.

I reckon this is damn close to what you need to be building. Especially with the XT660 engine.

I have looked at that bike as a potential purchase, and it well...
Too good!

Its a real minter aye, well worth it for someone upgrading from a 250.

Would be great start but It 3700 is a fair bit if ya just wana muck around and have fun with somthing on closed roads. IMHO of course...

What a great idea Paul! have been thinking of trying somthing like that myself, was thinking GN/DR 250 based machine as it would be cheap and easy to play with compared to somthing bigger and all the old school brit bike hot up knowledge floating around this country is still FAIRLY relevant.

[koba]

How about a gb400 chassis with NX650 donk?

Yeah, make an offer, It will go for cheaper if I dont have to paint it again first.

Aint really a speed bike but probably could be with the ammount the previous owner spent on the bottom end (KLR600)

Im really loving the Idea of a GN based one and becuae they are so common it would open the door to others following, would be the easiest and cheapest way to begin a dedicated class, that or FXR150.

With the GN you could add SR250 yamaha aswell tho..

[Fooman]

Yeah the TM is of course Period 72 eligible & the XR period 82.

If I ever have kids I'll make sure mine is faster too:clap:

Hmm, maybe a crashed VT250 would be the go. Steel frame, perky thin engine, prolly not too expensive if largely destroyed (ie: uneconomic to fix to road form). Would easily be 100mph capable if in the right frame, maybe an ambitious 120 target.

Do a Supermono conversion job on the VTR250 - turn it into a high revving S(X?)R125!

FM

[F5 Dave]

Someone grafted a head on top of a CB125 years back before FXRs. Lot of work & why, but would be a laugh.

[Hitcher]

"The World's Fastest Volty" has a kind of anarchic charm about it...

[Bonez]

"The World's Fastest Volty" has a kind of anarchic charm about it...Volty Volocity Vortex anyone?

[Paul in NZ]

Oh deary me.... A project has been purchased (sight unseen) and the only question is, will Miss Vicki see the hidden beauty and accept it as a Raumati learner / hack bike or will it go straight into sprinting....

Standby for more news after this weekend.....

[tri boy]

Ohh, this will be a good thread now:clap:

[Paul in NZ]

Oh - a sister bike to this marvel has been sighted and could be purchased.... Christ I hope someone buys the FZR soon...... (before Vicki realises that there seems to be suddenly less space in the garage.

[Paul in NZ]

Ohh, this will be a good thread now:clap:

Mate - I'm really quite excited about this (OK, classic manic / depressive behaviour I know) - the weird thing is, when I started riding bikes in the the very early 70's on a 500cc AJS I mocked bikes like this... Bloody hell..... Times have changed....

[deanohit]

Yay, I'm so glad I subscribed to this thread or I probaly would have missed this.
Sounds like your gonna be having fun in the future, regular updates PLEASE!!!!!


So what have you bought? Or is it a big suprise?

[koba]

So bike like it were around in the early 70's.... a clue?

[Str8 Jacket]

So bike like it were around in the early 70's.... a clue?

I know something ya'll dont! naanaanananaaa! :D

[koba]

I know something ya'll dont! naanaanananaaa! :D

:argh:





The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[deanohit]

C'mon Straightjacket, out with it pretty pleeeeeeease with a cherry on top!!!











:jerry::corn:

[Paul in NZ]

I'll tell all on sat once phase 2 is decided.... heh heh...

Besides - if you thought about it - there is a clue in this thread.....

[merv]

I know something ya'll dont! naanaanananaaa! :D


I know you arranged to get the A100 sold to him coz Paul just likes doing up bikes that you've ridden.

Don't mock the A100, I've said on other threads Tony Burrell from Napier used to be the NZ 125 champion on one of those back in the 70's.

[skelstar]

Bet (knowing nothing about bikes in the 70's) that its a GB (not old enough?) or CB something or rather. Something that any die-hard Bonnie rider wouldn't be caught dead on.

[Str8 Jacket]

I know you arranged to get the A100 sold to him coz Paul just likes doing up bikes that you've ridden.

Don't mock the A100, I've said on other threads Tony Burrell from Napier used to be the NZ 125 champion on one of those back in the 70's.

Actually Im buying the A myself.... Fucken love that bike! :D

Anyway, I know and you guuy's dont! :p

(sorry Paul, I cant help myself..... )

[Paul in NZ]

(sorry Paul, I cant help myself..... )


Fill yer boots Helen... :laugh:

[Paul in NZ]

Oh crap! This has blown up in my face! This little bike has turned out to be very rescuable - quite tidy in places, it runs, its as cute as a button, is HILLARIOUS to ride and Vicki can managed it... Shit - looks like another intervention rather than a sprint bike project.....

It looks like an AC50 but its actually an A100..... Bwahahaha Its really very funny to ride and people just fall about laughing when they see it....

It has a few personality disorders (some stuff already fell off)

Welcome to KB Kermit ....

I reckon Vicki and I will look right styly headed to the Cafe' on this.... (well OK I might take the Trophy but they are both green)

[deanohit]

Haha, cool mate, look like it's reasonably tidy, should be a real hoot!

[merv]

Well I was half right - got the A100 part, just its not the motor from Str8's bike - ha ha lol!!

Pity that poor engine though breathing through the AC50 exhaust. You'll need to get a new chamber made up for it to unleash all the power.

[Paul in NZ]

Well I was half right - got the A100 part, just its not the motor from Str8's bike - ha ha lol!!

Pity that poor engine though breathing through the AC50 exhaust. You'll need to get a new chamber made up for it to unleash all the power.

Yeah - thats on the plan merv.. Few other issues to consider first but I need to learn about chambers and where to get em assuming I can't make one... ;-)

[riffer]

Shit, that's a blast from the past!

I sat my full licence on one of those, as my main ride at the time was a 1969 Honda CB350.

Should be good for 130-140 km/hr do you reckon if you work it?

[merv]

I keep mentioning how fast the A100 could be with Tony Burrell winning NZ championship races on his so one would make a good flying sprinter but by the time you've ported them, fiddled with the disc valve and given them a decent chamber and geared them for speed just forget the standing quarter part of the equation unless you can somehow get more gears in the box. Back in the late 60's and early 70's of course races were still started with riders pushing their bikes to fire them up.

[Paul in NZ]

Worked it will go faster than that!!! Stopping could be an issue....

[merv]

Target for one of those would be a real "ton" but AC50 chassis :( gulp!!

[Paul in NZ]

Target for one of those would be a real "ton" but AC50 chassis :( gulp!!

It turns in quick Merv and has light steering

[merv]

This was my 1970 A100 http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37965&d=1153898055 - quite a demon in its dayI thought, but one of my memories after taking it to Christchurch was racing down Evans Pass towards Sumner with a mate on a GT380 and another on a Ducati 450 - me leading and getting away of course but Paul you'd know that kink in that road towards the bottom and man did the A100 flex taking that left hander at the speed I was going that day. Good back shocks were not their forte and here you have the AC50 to contend with.

:eek5: :eek5: :eek5:

[skelstar]

Thats awesome! Looking forward to seeing in 'worked' form :niceone:

[Paul in NZ]

Thats awesome! Looking forward to seeing in 'worked' form :niceone:

Not so fast - Its too nice to slice up and Vicki thinks she might like it as a street bike.. drat.. Once I sus out its issues we will see but it IS kinda what I've been looking for.. Jepers it's LOUD!

[F5 Dave]

Hmm, did I pass you sunday arvo coming back from racing in the Van I saw one of those on a trailer with a Red CBR or something (brief look at the suzi in case it was a T125 & then back to the road).

PS: could be keen on the headlight etc for my T125.

[Paul in NZ]

Hmm, did I pass you sunday arvo coming back from racing in the Van I saw one of those on a trailer with a Red CBR or something (brief look at the suzi in case it was a T125 & then back to the road).

PS: could be keen on the headlight etc for my T125.

1: Yes you did you bloody hoon! Still had a bit of adrenalin left eh? :Police:

2: It was red and a victim of an unlucky choice :crybaby: but not a CBR - poor bike spotting skills there Dave but you were probably driving too fast (refer to point 1 above) - speed kills Dave

3: Find your own headlamp ya bludger :bleh: - like I said - Vicki kinda fancies Kermit, the kids like him, one of the girls boyfriends wants one now - I'm setting a trend here...

[F5 Dave]

1. I wasn't towing a trailer you cheeky upstart.

2. It was a CBR or a Ducati with a pipe sticking out the back they both look the same & of little interest atm. 'Course now you'll say it was a 675, but as I said I was concentrating on the road with a limited time to observe the mighty 'suzi.

3. So you've lost the battle to make it a sprinter already? If you sold off the street bits it would settle the argument. Well I have one, just a little rust.

[Paul in NZ]

1. I wasn't towing a trailer you cheeky upstart.


Upstart? I've been promoted then? Yeah - I can see why you have a van, people don't like following trailers at 90kph do they?


2. It was a CBR or a Ducati with a pipe sticking out the back they both look the same & of little interest atm. 'Course now you'll say it was a 675, but as I said I was concentrating on the road with a limited time to observe the mighty 'suzi.


It's not my story to tell - I was giving the rider and bike a lift because they got weary and needed a little lay down and I happened past with a convenient trailer in tow.


3. So you've lost the battle to make it a sprinter already? If you sold off the street bits it would settle the argument. Well I have one, just a little rust.

I didn't fight too hard actually - it was hillarious fun riding it around our place - Vicki is placing bets with the kids to see which bone I break first...

[koba]

I was kinda hoping you would get somthing cheap because it would be awesome to follow the trand and have a few people playing the same game.

All I would need is an old A100, I wonder where I could get one of those from...... :shifty:

[Str8 Jacket]

All I would need is an old A100, I wonder where I could get one of those from...... :shifty:

hmmm, I wonder..... Touch it and you die! I cant wait until I have a whole family of 2 smokers! :D

Paul - If you do manage to be able to get it to the sprints then I will bring the A as well.

[xwhatsit]

Oh crap! This has blown up in my face! This little bike has turned out to be very rescuable - quite tidy in places, it runs, its as cute as a button, is HILLARIOUS to ride and Vicki can managed it... Shit - looks like another intervention rather than a sprint bike project.....

It looks like an AC50 but its actually an A100..... Bwahahaha Its really very funny to ride and people just fall about laughing when they see it....

It has a few personality disorders (some stuff already fell off)

Welcome to KB Kermit ....

I reckon Vicki and I will look right styly headed to the Cafe' on this.... (well OK I might take the Trophy but they are both green)

Woohooo!!!!

Wish you were my Uncle, Paul. You're the coolest :D

I am falling about laughing. Just a bit.

I will be totally pissed if you can out-drag my bike. Which sounds likely.

There's a bloke on KB called Bass -- he lives up here in white-shoe land, at a workshop night he was discussing expansion chamber design (for GiJoe1313's RZ250 cum 350) and he certainly knows his stuff. Might be worth flicking him a PM.

[koba]

Today, 15:22

All I would need is an old A100, I wonder where I could get one of those from......

Today, 15:24
hmmm, I wonder..... Touch it and you die! I cant wait until I have a whole family of 2 smokers!


That took 2 minutes!

[F5 Dave]

I have 9 bikes, only 2 are 4-strokes. The Van I admit is also a 4 stroke, but I'd hate to pay for petrol otherwise.

One has to ask at what point does one modify an old beater for a laugh & at what point is it hacking up a future classic?

My take is I guess is how many were there of them & how many are left?

Always remember the BIKE cartoon with the guy knocking on the door with the lynch mob waiting around the corner "Are you the one advertising a Chopped Vincent?":eek5:

[Drew]

Not so fast - Its too nice to slice up and Vicki thinks she might like it as a street bike.. drat.. Once I sus out its issues we will see but it IS kinda what I've been looking for.. Jepers it's LOUD!

Hold on a minute yo self, you got us all excited about this project sprinter, ya cant deny us watchin it come to fruition!!!

You'll get the ton from it easy, wont even need to put a proper carb on it for that, I got 100kph out of an A50. All I did was take the cover off the carb to get it air, and took the jet needle out alltogether. Instant top end power. A large chunk is attainable by taking a few thou off the top of the barrel, (about 5mm would be a good start with the A) and chucking packers in under the critter. Cos they are tuned to try and acheive low end useable power.

Expansion chambers are quite the art form, but the man you wanna ask about them is Robert Taylor, he made his name building stupidly fast two stroke engines. It is a fairly complex equation, that involves bore and stroke, port timing, and exhaust temp.

[Paul in NZ]

One has to ask at what point does one modify an old beater for a laugh & at what point is it hacking up a future classic?

My take is I guess is how many were there of them & how many are left?

Always remember the BIKE cartoon with the guy knocking on the door with the lynch mob waiting around the corner "Are you the one advertising a Chopped Vincent?":eek5:

Very true but this has already been hacked at which is one reason why I purchased it. A nice AC50 would be kept as an AC50, this bike has had the tank mounts changed and all sorts of other stuff done to make it look like an AC50. My theory is to now make it look like a 1970s dream machine - mudflaps, green striped seat cover (the insulation tape has to go) when I cut the seat down for Vicki..

Its a hybrid already so it's never going to be collectable, original or worth much so it may as well be FUN!

edit - ya know the funny thing is.... When they were new - there were hundreds of them parked at every highschool in NZ and we couldn't wait to cut the beggars up! hence the irony in having something that looks like one now..

[Paul in NZ]

Hold on a minute yo self, you got us all excited about this project sprinter, ya cant deny us watchin it come to fruition!!!.

Easy big fella - there is every likelyhood that there will be some sprint action from it - just not sure when as it has a bit much personality and a bit too little reliability at the moment and who says I've stopped looking for a more suitable candidate...... :whistle: I do have a little medical issue front of mind right at the moment though, it's a matter of priority....:angry2:

Imagine 2 AC50's joined together...... oh hang on, that could be the meds..

[Pancakes]

So sprints, this is beach drags or a flying quater? Whats the format. This sounds cool. Most classes want to be fast which means power and $$'s, frames, suspension and it goes on. If it was up to 200cc singles, safety check but no WOF etc that'd be a bit of me. I don't recon I'm cut out for racing, would like to tinker tho and you don't "tinker" on a competitive race bike these days. (well, not with my limited knowledge). An old quad single, solid rear and some stolen forks. where's the beach!

[Drew]

I do have a little medical issue front of mind right at the moment though, it's a matter of priority....:angry2:


How on earth will you make the project work after you've had a lobotomy?

[rwh]

If someone wants to make a go of a dead VT250F, let me know ... I have a bunch of stuff (including a complete bike, and a spare incomplete one) cluttering up the garage.

Richard

[Paul in NZ]

How on earth will you make the project work after you've had a lobotomy?

Frankly I'm thinking it will help... Besides - being brainless didn't slow you down much? :whistle:

[Drew]

Frankly I'm thinking it will help... Besides - being brainless didn't slow you down much? :whistle:

It helps alright, gets rid of that pesky self preservation instinct.:wari:

[Drew]

If someone wants to make a go of a dead VT250F, let me know ... I have a bunch of stuff (including a complete bike, and a spare incomplete one) cluttering up the garage.

Richard

If it runs, I'll be round to pick it up Saturday!

[Paul in NZ]

If it runs, I'll be round to pick it up Saturday!


Wow - you really DID have a lobotomy didn't you?

[rwh]

If it runs, I'll be round to pick it up Saturday!

Depends what you mean by 'run'.

Last time it arrived here, I was riding it. It was, however, making an ominous knocking noise, reminiscent of the noise made by the previous engine before it died, and was diagnosed by Boyles as having run a big end bearing. Neither engine (the replacement that's still in it, or the one I took out) has actually seized; the old one ran noisily as well (but had cut out on my way home from a long trip, and didn't want to go at the time).

It seems these engines (older than the current VTR 250, and probably an older design than the spada as well) have a reputation for soft crankshafts.

Oh - and the electronic ignition gizmo is currently not plugged in either, since I took it round to Colapop's to help diagnose the bike he was fixing up.

But if it's for a non-road-legal purpose, I figured you could probably mount something else (maybe a newer VTR motor? Hyosung motor? Ducati motor?) with a bit of chopping and welding.

The other thing about this Saturday in particular is that I'm off to the Suzuki day at Manfeild, so picking it up then would be a bit impractical.

Richard

[rwh]

Wow - you really DID have a lobotomy didn't you?

Fond memories of this bike from the top of the Takas in October last year?

:)

Richard

[Paul in NZ]

Not really Richard... It was pretty frustating for you though!

Potentially great bikes but horribly flawed and expensive to sort out when they go pop - and they all go pop....

[Drew]

I was just kidding guys. I dont have room or time to play with any more bikes.

[koba]

So sprints, this is beach drags or a flying quater? Whats the format. This sounds cool. Most classes want to be fast which means power and $$'s, frames, suspension and it goes on. If it was up to 200cc singles, safety check but no WOF etc that'd be a bit of me. I don't recon I'm cut out for racing, would like to tinker tho and you don't "tinker" on a competitive race bike these days. (well, not with my limited knowledge). An old quad single, solid rear and some stolen forks. where's the beach!

www.cliffhanger.org.nz

The sprints are there, a few of us who go often want to do silly things.
Coyote has taken a minimoto thin down there, 23 second flying quarter or somthing silly like that.

[koba]

I was just kidding guys. I dont have room or time to play with any more bikes.

Thats a shame, i know a guy with a newish vtr motor he may want to sell...
Just used for pissing off neigbours with a 2 into one into mufflerless air exhaust, crash damage and lots of little balls of black rubber around the place :clap:

[rwh]

Thats a shame, i know a guy with a newish vtr motor he may want to sell...

Any idea how much?

Richard

[koba]

Any idea how much?

Richard

Really probably wont fit into a VT250 without lots of work.
Will ask if ya really wanna know.

[Drew]

Really probably wont fit into a VT250 without lots of work.
Will ask if ya really wanna know.

Not that much work. The VT has a removable steel engine cradle, so it just requires a pipe bender and welder to make a new one.

[Paul in NZ]

Not that much work. The VT has a removable steel engine cradle, so it just requires a pipe bender and welder to make a new one.


If you go this way get all the electrics, wiring and switchgear plus the headers as well...

[Drew]

Was just down at TSS, and they had a VTR parked beside an old VT250f, the f had its plastic off. Trust me when I say, I think the VTR motor will fit. THERE'S NO BLOODY DIFFERENCE. I shit you not, the motor is exactly the same, the VTR just doesn't use half the engine mounts that are still there from the f.

[Paul in NZ]

I think the firing order is different - not sure but make sure you get the ignition module etc.

[merv]

I think the firing order is different - not sure but make sure you get the ignition module etc.

What instead of going 1 - 2 it goes 2 - 1 haha lol? Or do you mean different crank pin settings?

[deanohit]

What instead of going 1 - 2 it goes 2 - 1 haha lol? Or do you mean different crank pin settings?

:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme

Ooohh, I needed that laugh, pure brilliance.

[Paul in NZ]

What instead of going 1 - 2 it goes 2 - 1 haha lol? Or do you mean different crank pin settings?

Ho Ho... The firing order in degrees of crank rotation was changed to try and resolve cank failures - working from memory which is currently on overload...

[koba]

this could be very interesting...

[Fatjim]

Just saw the heading and after your "not fun" thread I thought this said "project sphincter..."

[Pancakes]

Ho Ho... The firing order in degrees of crank rotation was changed to try and resolve cank failures - working from memory which is currently on overload...

If it's being done for fun two coils and a hall effect sensor cleverly placed should do the trick? yeah? nah? and give the builder some more room to try their own tuning too?