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Joni
5th October 2007, 15:02
I don’t often write about personal stuff on KB… but I wanted to get some thoughts, as I am really mulling over something.

About a year ago I joined a company after they head hunted me quite aggressively. In the beginning all was ok, as it always is as everyone is at their best behaviour…

However slowly but surely the Director and her husband (the Financial Manager) started to fight, until after a few months very personal stuff was being aired in the office. This has never settled down… however a few months ago they started treating me like that as well… slightly aggressive, abusive and quite personal which I feel is way above the level of standard professional courtesy.

Through being upset about it and mulling of a career change, I eventually started looking for another position and have now been offered something that will open the doors for me in what I want to do in the future.

However, now all of a sudden I feel so stink… when my boss is not fighting, she is a damn nice lady and I get on with her really well… its just at times she is a genuine bully. But I feel so guilty about telling her about my decision… that I am trying to get out of doing it Monday.

Phew!

So my loyalty is something that I pride myself in… but when does loyalty need to step back for self preservation??

Oh dear… I feel like a traitorous shit!
Am I being a big softie again?
:cry:

jrandom
5th October 2007, 15:05
Yup, you're being a softy.

Resign immediately and move on.

I could give you a long, motivational paragraph in support of those statements, but you're smart enough to not need it. :)

Maverick
5th October 2007, 15:07
Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Even if its not easy.

JimO
5th October 2007, 15:09
move on, my wife was in a similar situation and really agonised over leaving she has been in her new job 3 years and is way happier she cant believe she put up with the shit for so long

idleidolidyll
5th October 2007, 15:09
it's only a job; get the hell outta there

an employment agency fella told me recently that employers nowdays don't expect to keep their staff beyond 2 years anyway (we were discussing opportunites for advancement)

Coldrider
5th October 2007, 15:10
And remember, you can't bank 'thanks', but you can bank experience & growth.

Usarka
5th October 2007, 15:10
They'll understand, and if they dont then they're not the sort of people you want to be loyal to in the first place! :)

fireball
5th October 2007, 15:11
put yourself first, open your own doors and step on through.....

loyalty is important but sounds like its time for you move on life is to short to be stuck in an uncomfortable situation

but only you know whats best let us know what you decide!
good luck!

Ewan Oozarmy
5th October 2007, 15:11
Life's too short and it's just a job.

Goblin
5th October 2007, 15:13
Through being upset about it and mulling of a career change, I eventually started looking for another position and have now been offered something that will open the doors for me in what I want to do in the future.


Am I being a big softie again?
:cry:
Yes, you're a big softie. :hug:
I think you've answered your own question there. If it upset you enough to look for another job, it's not worth continuing working where you are not happy. If you've been offered something that will open doors in the future then go for it! Dont fall into the guilt trap.

vifferman
5th October 2007, 15:15
Your first responsibility is to yourself - do what's best for you.
You don't owe this "damn nice lady" anything - you've given them your time and skills, and they've paid you for that.

It's always hard when personal and business life get mixed up, Joni. It happened with my wife - her ex-boss ran a kind of a girls club, treated everyone nice (to their face), but they weren't performing and doing what they were paid for. When Karen started there, the rest of the team didn't like her, because she was efficient and did what she was paid to. It ended up being difficult, as her boss had created a nice "easy job until I retire in 10 years", and had worked hard(ish) to make her job look more complex than it was, so they wouldn't get rid of her. Oh dear - they did! So she sabotaged a lot of things for Karen before she left (and kept trying to after she left!)

Happened with me too - I moved to Chch in 1995, partly because I was friends with a guy there, and wanted to work with him. Took a $7k pay cut to do so. He was so busy being seduced by this ratbag there that he didn't do his job right. He was supposed to be my boss, yet I had to learn everything without his help, and nearly chucked it in after 3 weeks. He ended up leaving his wife (and brand-new baby!) for this scheming bitch. He stopped being my friend in 1996, and I moved back north.

Look out for yourself, Joni - it's not selfish, just sensible.

Trudes
5th October 2007, 15:15
I know what you're saying Joni.
I work in a profession where I end up becoming very involved in people's lives (part of the family almost, or is that furniture??), and when you have to move on, you feel a fair amount of guilt, or betrayal.
However, if the job, or their personal stuff, or their attitude towards you is affecting you, making you miserable, then it's best to do what is best for you. Especially if there is a better position on offer, why not.
At the end of the day, you are an employee, they are your employers, and that's what it would no doubt come down to if the shoe is on the other foot.
Good luck luv.

Jantar
5th October 2007, 15:16
If you are certain that your new position is confirmed, then resign at the first opportunity. Put your resignation in writing, and state the reasons. Namely: Your future advancement, and their behaviour.

Its too late for them to correct their behaviour in front of you, but it may make them a little more considerate with their next employee.

Scouse
5th October 2007, 15:43
Why is resigning showing disloyalty, as long as you have given them your loyalty while you have been working there in the past, and you are upfront about your reasons for moving on, then there is not a lot more that you can do. They certainly seem to have not treated you with the respect that you require and should be treated with. By the way your first post read if you were to stay on you will end up being depresed

Grahameeboy
5th October 2007, 15:48
Yep you need to decide what is best for you, not what is best for your employers.

avgas
5th October 2007, 15:52
I'm actually going to break the trend here a little and ask you some very simple questions:
a) Do you not like your work at all?
b) Can your current position not lead where you would like to go? Or have you simply not asked?
c) Have you questioned the problems in your current job?
Answer yes to all them then i say jump, otherwise im sorry but you have added no value to your company.
You are office furniture and expendible.
You feel bad for a reason, rather than ignore it, question it.
Its not always "US" and "THEM", if your cant work with your workmates, who can you work with.

MSTRS
5th October 2007, 15:54
Understand where you are coming from BUT the only loyalty you 'owe' is to yourself.

LilSel
5th October 2007, 16:01
Do whats best for you...

I feel a bit hypocritical in saying that though... I was offered a position (+5k) & turned it down because of my loyalties to my current job... (that & the fact that I was 1/3rd of the department at that time, have 5 incl me now)... oh that & I really like my current job...

Had a run in yesterday with the boss... (she later apologised to me tho!?!)...
Now I am considering moving on from here (been over 3 years) however if I want to stay in this area, it will be another company who is in direct competition with mine. If I was to go to a competitor, with my knowledge/experience etc... my current workplace could lose the title of 'the best in the industry', as I am confident that I could waltz into the competitors area & sort things out... im not sure if I could do that tho... the whole... bring down what you helped make so great... (maybe bring down isnt the right word... but overtake in terms of 'the best'...)

Its tough aye Joni... I can understand your prediciment...

Whatever decision you make... think it through... & dont act on impulse...

I felt like walking out yesterday... but was level headed enough not to (even tho my boss made me cry!!?...) had I have walked out... wouldnt have been a good look for future employment etc.

Am going to look around... I know im worth more than im currently paid... but its not all about the $$ either... if it was... when more people came onboard, I would've taken the other job that paid extra 5k to current salary quick smart

pzkpfw
5th October 2007, 16:02
Good on you for feelings of loyalty - but if you want to move, do it.

My wife works for a small company, and has similar issues - the boss being the guy who owns and runs the place; ends up having his "personality" affect everyone.

You don't need that.

Just yesterday an employment agent (!) told my wife "priority one is you and your family, second is your job."

Cheers,

Paul in NZ
5th October 2007, 16:06
Seriously - does your boss, if push came to shove, demonstrate the same loyalty to you? Ie - what would they sacrifice to keep you? Its usually an unequal amount.

Its your life, you decide and judging from your post you KNOW what you want. Resign - take the new job..

Joni
5th October 2007, 16:06
Hmm to complicate things the new company are not being very flexible... I suggested a start date, the basically said if you cant start by 5 November then they cant do it... their way or the highway basically.

Huh!

I told them my manager is not here today?? that I would like to read over the contract etc etc... they said ok, they will give me until Monday morning to resign.

Damn all I dont want is to jump from one hot pan to another... I have 2 more roles that could be great for me as well! All pointing my in my new career direction... so I am not forced to take the first thing that comes to me.

If they start this hard and inflexible, how will it end?

mstriumph
5th October 2007, 16:07
....................................... mulling of a career change, I eventually started looking for another position and have now been offered something that will open the doors for me in what I want to do in the future.

isn't THIS what is the heart of the situation?

- in the words of the Rabbi "all the rest is commentary"

you will do what suits your own agenda - irrespective of who says what either at work or on this forum

and there's nothing wrong with that.

Mr Merde
5th October 2007, 16:08
You only have yourself to look after. In the long run do whats best for you and screw the rest.

I bet if they had to make cuts for financial reasons and you were ijn the frame they would have no hesitation in cutting you.

Loyalty is a two way street. It must be earned by both sides.

Go for the new job. If you conscience is bothering you then go and buy yourself a bar of chocolate or some other treat.

My 2 cents worth.

Scouse
5th October 2007, 16:10
Hmm to complicate things the new company are not being very flexible... I suggested a start date, the basically said if you cant start by 5 November then they cant do it... their way or the highway basically.

Huh!

I told them my manager is not here today?? that I would like to read over the contract etc etc... they said ok, they will give me until Monday morning to resign.

Damn all I dont want is to jump from one hot pan to another... I have 2 more roles that could be great for me as well! All pointing my in my new career direction... so I am not forced to take the first thing that comes to me.

If they start this hard and inflexible, how will it end?Dam and I thought that you were in HR if so you know the drill you are or should be entitled to at least one week to read and get advice on a contract.

Joni
5th October 2007, 16:11
Dam and I thought that you were in HR if so you know the drill you are or should be entitled to at least one week to read and get advice on a contract.Exactly.... they are forcing my hand, and I am not sure if I am comfortable with that.

And no, not making excuses... just a bit nervous.

avgas
5th October 2007, 16:14
My last job i quit because i was sick of it, and hung on to a job offer for 2 weeks (1 before i quit, 1 after).
Sounds like you need to do the same, it makes things interesting and more competitive on their part.
At the end of the day your changing jobs to make your life better, if it all seems to hard then that tells your whether you are making wrong move.

Joni
5th October 2007, 16:19
Yeah, from a purely emotional point of view (and yes might not be rational), I feel like I am being bullied into making a decision...

Better the bully you know??

Ah well, I will see what the contract says, as no they have not sent it to me yet, but want a decision by Monday morning... however one more warning bell and I will rather wait and see what the other 2 options bring.

SVboy
5th October 2007, 16:26
Sounds like your current workplace sees you being bullied and manipulated at times-never condusive to a happy employee-and not an example of employer loyalty either. However, hardball from the new place cant be making this an easy decision. Sounds like you get job offers easily. Would a possible strategy be to wait until you are sure and even sit down with the managerial team and discuss your concerns....[the hardest choice!]

avgas
5th October 2007, 16:27
Oh an Joni, if your new job doesnt mean about you getting a new bike.........You have made the wrong move ;)
Stew

Joni
5th October 2007, 16:29
Would a possible strategy be to wait until you are sure and even sit down with the managerial team and discuss your concerns....[the hardest choice!]You are 100% right - I have however discussed my concerns in an open and honest forum more than once... 2-3 days its great, then it pops back to the same Modus Operadi!

I would like to be able to think about it and be sure and leave with my heart feeling happy and confident that I have mde the right decision, but I cant, I have not seen the contract yet, and I have until Monday to make this call. So now feel like I am being pushed tight against the wall.

Joni
5th October 2007, 16:30
Oh an Joni, if your new job doesnt mean about you getting a new bike.........You have made the wrong move ;)
StewIm not allowed to ride to work... does that count? I asked and they scoffed at me...

Mom
5th October 2007, 16:34
Resign immediately and move on.




Your first responsibility is to yourself - do what's best for you.
You don't owe this "damn nice lady" anything - you've given them your time and skills, and they've paid you for that.


Why is resigning showing disloyalty


the only loyalty you 'owe' is to yourself.


Do whats best for you...




If they start this hard and inflexible, how will it end?

I cant add too much to the sage adivce above, apart from saying I read your post and heard how miserable you are where you are the moment, and you want a change. You dont seem to me to be a "retiring wall flower" kind of gal, not afraid to put your case! Take the job (as long as the contract stacks up of course)

Resign your current position and look forward!

To pinch a line........Just Do It!

pzkpfw
5th October 2007, 16:45
Im not allowed to ride to work... does that count? I asked and they scoffed at me...

How do they get to tell you that?

MotoGirl
5th October 2007, 17:21
You might feel bad for resigning, but you'll feel a lot worse if you stay there and they continue to bully you. When you do resign, tell them why you're doing it and give them the chance to stop all of the other staff leaving for the same reason.

Guitana
5th October 2007, 17:29
So my loyalty is something that I pride myself in… but when does loyalty need to step back for self preservation??

Oh dear… I feel like a traitorous shit!
Am I being a big softie again?
:cry:[/QUOTE]

Fark em Joni!! Wer'e all pay check mercenaries you dont need these people arguing in front of you and getting personal! Dont take their abuse :argue:they've crossed the line!!!
Get out of there and find another company to give your loyalty to! Think of your career,:clap: you come first!!!:clap::first:

Joni
5th October 2007, 17:33
How do they get to tell you that?I will have to go and see clients, and they dont want me arriving on a bike... It is apparantly in the contract, which arrived 20 minutes ago, but I have not read, that I need to look polished and professional at all times...

riffer
5th October 2007, 17:39
Im not allowed to ride to work... does that count? I asked and they scoffed at me...

You what? Is that ACTUALLY in your contract? Good reason to leave I reckon. How dare they dictate what method of transport you are allowed to use. edit: I just read your post. Bollocks. I ride to work and I have my suit at work if need it. There's always a way around it. If they don't like your method of transport they can bloody well provide a car for you.

Go over the contract with a lawyer. It is unreasonable, however to get a contract at 6.30 Friday and have to sign it by the Monday.

If its a better deal (and they let you ride to work and still moderate at work too) and it's a better career move I would take it. You need a decent amount of time to look at a contract though. Any company that pushes you to make a decision too quick isn't thinking things through properly.

Remember they'll be nice to you at the new job for a while and if YOU don't like it you can always look for another one too.

Do what makes you happy Joni. God knows you get enough shit in your life. Even though you're only little, you shouldn't let anyone push you around.

Unit
5th October 2007, 17:46
If the new job opportunity is a better move for you personally, do it. I have been with my employer for four years and suddenly got made redundant, after planning a career with them I expected to last up to 10 years. Its been quite a sobering experience, and has pushed me to look at my professional life a little differently. Business is business, they will find someone else and it will no doubt be a new opportunity you are passing on to the new incumbent in your current role.

Nasty
5th October 2007, 18:51
My take is current situation sucks .. headhunted ... etc etc ... new situation is pressured .. and unreasonable .. you have other irons in the fire .. they may or may not be as good as this one ....

Quite seriously I think that the offer that has been made and the tactics used, e.g. resign now, are unreasonable - and completely unacceptable. in other words - crap. They may be better or worse than your current stuff .. but the truth is they are unreasonable now they will continue to be so .. also what is this about a bike .. I am a professional and I ride all the time .. I also dress like a professional ... if its in the contract ... its probably CRAP too ...

The other irons may be more reasonable .. and if they also head you in the right direction ... wait may just be the answer ....

geoffm
5th October 2007, 19:08
Beezness ees beezness as they say.
I have this problem with loyalty as well, but I am on a self help course..
My first job I had for 4 years, which was 2 years to long. I was young and green and they screwed me over royally. I could have nailed them in teh employment court if I had known better at the time. They got loyal service, but it wasn't rewarded. Company also had a high staff turnover, which I doubt has improved. No payrise for 4 years, and I got $8k a year by moving on.
Last job I was at for 7 years. Pay was crap, but it was great fun and we parted ways when the owners decided they wanted to retire, and I needed more money than the company could afford to pay me. It was all very friendly, and I am still in contact from time to time. Loyalty there cost me around $5-7k per year, but I don't regret it. It was time to move on when we split up. i miss the flexi hours though and company car.

In short, check out the options. You need to do some research on the players in the market you are going to or staying in. What is the reputation they have - NZ is a small place and word gets around? Can you find someone who worked there? Do a secret shopper thing and get a feel of the atmosphere?

This job where they give you the contract for the weekend is not on. I would tell them that you want to take advice on it. If they insist, you don't want to work for them anyway. Job flexibility has value, and it is a 2 way street. If they want it all their way, then it won't last. If they want the right people, they have to be flexible. We have had to wait 3 months before one of draftsmen could start - and it was well worth the wait.
I am assuming you aren't going for a McJob as a burger flipper, so I doubt if they will have lots of people lined up.
If they want to say you can't commute on the bike, tell them they have to pay you accordingly (and provide a parking space) or provide a car. Outside working hours they should have no say in the matter, unless they are going to pay.
Don't use your vehicle for work - you won't be insured. If you do, make sure they pay you generous mileage to pay the costs and risk - i get 65c/km.

Geoff

Macktheknife
5th October 2007, 19:18
As far as the current position goes, get out. You're not happy, you have spoken up and not got what you require to be happy there, so get out.

As for the offer on the table, don't bother with them, if they are not prepared to deal with you reasonably when you are not employed yet, you can guarantee it won't get better when you are working for them.
I do have one caveat to that, is the person who is putting the pressure on you to quit an agent of some kind or a full representative of the new company? If they are an agent, ignore them and take your time. If they are representing the company, tell them to go to hell and you can find a better position.
Mack

NZsarge
5th October 2007, 19:20
If you are being made to feel uncomforable in your work place by behaviour that is unprofessional (personal things alway manage to creep into the work place but there is a limit) I would'nt have any qualms about moving on to a better job if I were you, if you can get some happiness in your job take it with both hands and run I say! Besides if there is one thing i've learnt about such things is just because someone is employing you does not mean you owe them anything as they are paying you to do a job (particularly when they are treating you badly), simple as that really. Money for services rendered.

pritch
5th October 2007, 19:27
Give your application for the new job your best shot.
If you get the job tell the current amateurs all about it and give them the chance to buy your soul.

Sell to the highest bidder.

But above all, remember it really is better if it's fun :-)

Am I a management consultant? Am I fuck!! But Hey! I am 63 and it all seems rather distant somehow.

Best of luck girl

Virago
5th October 2007, 19:27
Is resignation betrayal?

Only if you are part of the Team New Zealand America's Cup team. Otherwise no.

fireliv
5th October 2007, 19:48
It sounds like it time to leave..........

MyGSXF
5th October 2007, 19:48
Joni.. have a read..

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1229358&postcount=1

Jen :rockon:

Joni
5th October 2007, 20:00
Well kick and I had a chat…. And without me telling him what my decision was, his call was the same as mine.

Analysed:
So I currently work for a company that I am not happy in.
I have a few options that I can look at, no guarantee that I get them, but at least I know there is potential.

The offer I got:
-The have given me a weekend to think it over, with no opportunity to consult Greg Jones, my personal business mentor.
- I might have to give up Kung Fu, as they don’t allow Flexi time and won’t let me come in early and leave a little earlier on a Monday and Wednesday.
- I have to wear a suit everyday/all day, my desk has to be spotless at all times. (pfft)
- I have to take a pay cut
etc etc etc and there are many etc's

Basically I will say thank but no thanks. I want to join a company where I can stay for a while and grow. They have showed no flexibility, and it seems its their way or no way…. I would rather listen to my boss fight and throw things around the office for a while longer, until I find people who appreciate the talent I have to offer and show that its give and take… flexibility is a great thing.

So I keep on looking… at least now I have worked through the feelings of guilt about leaving… and am ready to accept the right position, not just any position.

Thank you, quite a few of you have helped, and I have taken your advice on board.

NZsarge
5th October 2007, 20:07
Perhaps you need to give your current employers the learn on how uncomfortable their fighting and bullying is making things so they can make a choice as wether or not to modify their behaviour or you'll be off!

chanceyy
5th October 2007, 20:10
good on ya Joni .. still have to weigh up the options & bide ya time .. like all things in life.. good things do come to those who wait ..


gawd knows I have been waiting a long time .. but things are looking umm interesting at the moment :whistle:

Joni
5th October 2007, 20:11
Perhaps you need to give your current employers the learn on how uncomfortable their fighting and bullying is making things so they can make a choice as wether or not to modify their behaviour or you'll be off!Done that several times hun... and it does not change things.

However they are flexible, so I am prepared to wait till the right one comes.

Nasty
6th October 2007, 06:20
However they are flexible, so I am prepared to wait till the right one comes.

I have stayed in roles waiting for the right one ...and it does happen ... one thing you said in the last post was a 'pay cut' if I had seen that earlier I would have added inflexibility and less money .... take your job and @(#*$ it.

I think you have made a good well thought out decision .. even if you needed the KBers to help with the process.

MSTRS
6th October 2007, 08:26
The offer I got:
-The have given me a weekend to think it over, with no opportunity to consult Greg Jones, my personal business mentor.
- I might have to give up Kung Fu, as they don’t allow Flexi time and won’t let me come in early and leave a little earlier on a Monday and Wednesday.
- I have to wear a suit everyday/all day, my desk has to be spotless at all times. (pfft)
- I have to take a pay cut
etc etc etc and there are many etc's

Basically I will say thank but no thanks.

The right decision. With one rider...'thanks etc' is not the term to be using.

Wolf
6th October 2007, 09:37
I will have to go and see clients, and they dont want me arriving on a bike... It is apparantly in the contract, which arrived 20 minutes ago, but I have not read, that I need to look polished and professional at all times...
Haha.

One morning, one of the more immaculately-attired professional women where I work (2-i-C, no less) remarked that my hair "always looks" better presented than hers.

I replied that as I wear a helmet to work, I arrive with a serious case of helmet hair, so the first thing I do after clambouring out of my riding gear is comb my hair.

Occasionally (OK, rarely) I have to dress up above "Corporate Casual" level - I have a suit jacket at work and it's a small matter to arrange to change clothes when I get to work (the OTHER use for the toilets).

I know far more professional guys than me who ride bikes to work and look the picture of Corporate Elegance when at work.

Brett
6th October 2007, 09:42
I have just been through a similar experience when I resigned 5 weeks ago from a company that was absolutely brilliant. The understanding that I came too was that you need to do what is right for you in your situation and not to be guilty about it or worry about your career. Do your best not to burn bridges, who knows...it may only be a season and when things settle down you could end up back there? Having a shot at a new career is always exciting and fun and we all need a change every now and again.

Don't put up with them offloading their personal garbage into your life. If you have to spend a 3rd to half your day at work...make it something that you enjoy! You owe them no loyalty when they don't show you due respect.

Joni
6th October 2007, 09:42
Exactly Wolf!!!

I agree.

Just as clarification - Its in the contract that I have to look 100% at all times, however the bike bit was told to me face to face, that its not a good look for me to arrive at clients on a bike... they want all staff to be polished and presentable at all times! So i.e. a woman on a bike is not polished in her opinion.

carver
6th October 2007, 09:50
I don’t often write about personal stuff on KB… but I wanted to get some thoughts, as I am really mulling over something.

About a year ago I joined a company after they head hunted me quite aggressively. In the beginning all was ok, as it always is as everyone is at their best behaviour…

However slowly but surely the Director and her husband (the Financial Manager) started to fight, until after a few months very personal stuff was being aired in the office. This has never settled down… however a few months ago they started treating me like that as well… slightly aggressive, abusive and quite personal which I feel is way above the level of standard professional courtesy.

Through being upset about it and mulling of a career change, I eventually started looking for another position and have now been offered something that will open the doors for me in what I want to do in the future.

However, now all of a sudden I feel so stink… when my boss is not fighting, she is a damn nice lady and I get on with her really well… its just at times she is a genuine bully. But I feel so guilty about telling her about my decision… that I am trying to get out of doing it Monday.

Phew!

So my loyalty is something that I pride myself in… but when does loyalty need to step back for self preservation??

Oh dear… I feel like a traitorous shit!
Am I being a big softie again?
:cry:

ah..been here before!
leave, you will be a better person for it..
once you have left you will see what you left behind..

Wolf
6th October 2007, 10:03
So i.e. a woman on a bike is not polished in her opinion.
Fah! just need to choose the right accessories to go with the riding leathers...

Coldrider
6th October 2007, 10:13
Exactly Wolf!!!

I agree.

Just as clarification - Its in the contract that I have to look 100% at all times, however the bike bit was told to me face to face, that its not a good look for me to arrive at clients on a bike... they want all staff to be polished and presentable at all times! So i.e. a woman on a bike is not polished in her opinion.
The prospective employer is already pushing you into the mould they want you in.
I ride my bike to work, receptionists reckon I look like a gladiator ready to do battle, with helmets, armour & such. I am 'pristine' underneath.
If you work for small companies you get small time bitchiness, if you work for large companies you get politics, you have to work out what you can handle or deal with, with me it's multi nationals all the way, there is always something to develop, improve or adapt, it gives something positive to focus on when all the crap flies around.
We spend far too much time at work to be unhappy.
Look after number one.

Joni
6th October 2007, 13:50
NOw the new company have sent me a lovely bunch of flowers - saying they hope i join the team as I would be an awesome team member...

I feel stink all over again now :confused:

Scouse
6th October 2007, 14:04
NOw the new company have sent me a lovely bunch of flowers - saying they hope i join the team as I would be an awesome team member...

I feel stink all over again now :confused:Tell them to shove their flowers up their arse

Joni
6th October 2007, 14:09
Tell them to shove their flowers up their arseYou know mate... I am fully aware that I am too soft, and that my concern for others is at times not my best asset, as it has caused my downfall... but damn, not sure how to shake it, and not sure I want to be as tough as people like you anyway :bleh:

Ah well, One step at a time...

Scouse
6th October 2007, 14:20
Tell them to shove their flowers up their arse


You know mate... I am fully aware that I am too soft, and that my concern for others is at times not my best asset... but damn, not sure how to shake it, and not sure I want to be as tough as people like you anyway :bleh:

Ah well, One step at a time...Ok so tell them to do it in the nicest posible way with icecream and a cherry on top

Goblin
6th October 2007, 14:22
Tell them to shove their flowers up their arse

:clap: Ever the Diplomat eh. :laugh:

BarBender
6th October 2007, 14:36
Some industries are pretty cut-throat in terms of 'demanding' when people need to make their decisions by....especially if you're good and they think there are other players wanting to recruit you ...OR if they have other candidates waiting in the wings OR if the companies recruiting are in the middle of a RFP and need to put names into the proposal. Advertising and IT are examples where this situation is commonplace. However Im surprised that you were only given a short amount of time. Standard is usually 5 working days.
Flowers?? Shhhiiitt! Sounds like these guys could tear your head off and smile while they do it. Just my $.02 but Id pass. You just got a good look at how these guys operate when trying to recruit. Id hate to think what their management style is like. If they really wanted you they would have given you the time.
End it nicely though. Chch is a small place.

Husband and wife management teams??? Thats almost as bad as drinking buddies going into business. Dont get me wrong some work. But its a given that the dirty laundry is going to get aired. Part and parcel of the dynamic of that type of business partnership...
Question is Joni...Have you had enough?

Best of luck babe.
R

Wolf
6th October 2007, 14:36
Tell them to shove their flowers up their arse
Ooh! Hope they were roses - "old fashioned" roses...

Virago
6th October 2007, 14:41
Tell them to shove their flowers up their arse

...But tell them to do a flower-arranging course first - as they must look 100% at all times...:banana:

Brett
6th October 2007, 15:37
Some industries are pretty cut-throat in terms of 'demanding' when people need to make their decisions by....especially if you're good and they think there are other players wanting to recruit you ...OR if they have other candidates waiting in the wings OR if the companies recruiting are in the middle of a RFP and need to put names into the proposal. Advertising and IT are examples where this situation is commonplace. However Im surprised that you were only given a short amount of time. Standard is usually 5 working days.
Flowers?? Shhhiiitt! Sounds like these guys could tear your head off and smile while they do it. Just my $.02 but Id pass. You just got a good look at how these guys operate when trying to recruit. Id hate to think what their management style is like. If they really wanted you they would have given you the time.
End it nicely though. Chch is a small place.

Husband and wife management teams??? Thats almost as bad as drinking buddies going into business. Dont get me wrong some work. But its a given that the dirty laundry is going to get aired. Part and parcel of the dynamic of that type of business partnership...
Question is Joni...Have you had enough?

Best of luck babe.
R

Always full of solid comment and advice aren't ya Rona? Good words.

Edit - cant give you bling...gotta spread the love around a bit first!

sunhuntin
6th October 2007, 21:32
...But tell them to do a flower-arranging course first - as they must look 100% at all times...:banana:

LOL. i suggest cutting the heads off and sending back the stems...

the new company are not willing to allow you breathing space now, when you are not even on their payroll... imaging what theyd be like if you were! youve made the right choice in tolerating the husband/wife team until something more suitable comes along.

yeh, having a couple working together always ends up bad. both of my jobs ive had co workers that were married... if one has a day off, so does the other, so all of a sudden you are two staff down instead of one. my current job, the husband had a heart attack, so he was off. his wife then had "a breakdown" and hello, shes off as well! not good. at a time when staff were already stretched thin, with many pulling double shifts.

sweetp
6th October 2007, 21:55
Hey Joni, sounds like you are making some tough decisions at the moment. I know people have said it before but you need to put yourself first and also to trust your intuition. Neither your current job or the new one sounds right for you, so if you have the courage hold out for what is going to work for you.

It is really hard to leave a job and even harder to turn one down when you are not happy, but be assured if you want it to happen it will.

I know it sounds soppy but I am HR and have been through a very similar thing recently. I acutally turned down a job and ended up in a role that I didn't think was going to offer me much but am now the 2IC....

Good luck to you - and I have to say a weekend is not long enough to review a contract especially if you want to seek external advice. They need to give you at least until Wednesday......

howdamnhard
6th October 2007, 22:02
Good decision,bide your time until you find one that suits you,at least now you have the luxury of time and flexibility:2thumbsup


Well kick and I had a chat…. And without me telling him what my decision was, his call was the same as mine.

Analysed:
So I currently work for a company that I am not happy in.
I have a few options that I can look at, no guarantee that I get them, but at least I know there is potential.

The offer I got:
-The have given me a weekend to think it over, with no opportunity to consult Greg Jones, my personal business mentor.
- I might have to give up Kung Fu, as they don’t allow Flexi time and won’t let me come in early and leave a little earlier on a Monday and Wednesday.
- I have to wear a suit everyday/all day, my desk has to be spotless at all times. (pfft)
- I have to take a pay cut
etc etc etc and there are many etc's

Basically I will say thank but no thanks. I want to join a company where I can stay for a while and grow. They have showed no flexibility, and it seems its their way or no way…. I would rather listen to my boss fight and throw things around the office for a while longer, until I find people who appreciate the talent I have to offer and show that its give and take… flexibility is a great thing.

So I keep on looking… at least now I have worked through the feelings of guilt about leaving… and am ready to accept the right position, not just any position.

Thank you, quite a few of you have helped, and I have taken your advice on board.

NighthawkNZ
6th October 2007, 22:04
I don’t often write about personal stuff on KB… but I wanted to get some thoughts, as I am really mulling over something.

About a year ago I joined a company after they head hunted me quite aggressively. In the beginning all was ok, as it always is as everyone is at their best behaviour…

However slowly but surely the Director and her husband (the Financial Manager) started to fight, until after a few months very personal stuff was being aired in the office. This has never settled down… however a few months ago they started treating me like that as well… slightly aggressive, abusive and quite personal which I feel is way above the level of standard professional courtesy.

Through being upset about it and mulling of a career change, I eventually started looking for another position and have now been offered something that will open the doors for me in what I want to do in the future.

However, now all of a sudden I feel so stink… when my boss is not fighting, she is a damn nice lady and I get on with her really well… its just at times she is a genuine bully. But I feel so guilty about telling her about my decision… that I am trying to get out of doing it Monday.

Phew!

So my loyalty is something that I pride myself in… but when does loyalty need to step back for self preservation??

Oh dear… I feel like a traitorous shit!
Am I being a big softie again?
:cry:

Is the pay and conditions better... (go with the money) if your not being treat in a professional manner then don't put up with...

Its with your right to move on to bigger and better places... write down the good and bad points of staying and do the same with your offered position. Do they (your employee) need you more than you need them???

At the end of the day if you are not happy where you are then simply move on.

ManDownUnder
6th October 2007, 22:21
No - it's not betrayal although I can see how it feels that way especially if they went out of their way to find you.

Look at it clinically, employment is an exchange of convenience, your expertise and time for thier resources (cash perks etc). If that's not working either of you has the rights and abilities to change it although it's a lot harder for the employer to do it.

Employment contract is an egreement for that exchange to take place ongoing. If something in the office is making it horrible for you to work there then don't.

Be clinical about it - if I were in your shoes, what would you tell me? I'll bet it would be
1) Look after yourself first
2) Make sure they know why you're leaving
3) Move on to something that gives you opportunities in the future.

No?

Ocean1
6th October 2007, 23:05
I am fully aware that I am too soft, and that my concern for others is at times not my best asset,

If that's not your best asset I'd quite like to explore the rest...

You didn't need to ask about the job though did you?

You feel bad about how others are behaving, and you can't change it? Well, if you've been assertive about your expectations of their behaviour towards you and it's made no difference then you shouldn't feel that you lack loyalty in leaving. Simple as that really.

Same deal with the new job offer. Any new appointment process requires some flexibility in negotiation. If you calmly call their bluff about the proposed conditions then you've clearly demonstrated that you won't be unreasonably treated. It is possible they are looking for exactly such a response, in which case you've demonstrated your worth and set a precedent. Flick them a brief but well constructed Email saying that you feel their concerns with regards to your personal transport are perhaps innapropriate, and that you'll let them know Wednesday. If they stick to their position, wanting you there Monday and bikeless then what does that tell you about their culture? You can walk away happy that you missed nothing.

Right, think that's the standard male advisory response to the standard female request for support out the way eh?

Oh, one more bit of free advice: Don't toughen up too much m'dear, we still expect the normal female response to the usual male fuckups and general social ineptitude.

Finn
6th October 2007, 23:22
Don't forget how accommodating your employers have been about you spending so much time on KB. That would have cost them big time.

However, they seem weird. I say sleep with the husband then leave.

Hitcher
7th October 2007, 14:06
Life isn't a dress rehearsal. You've got to do what's best for Joni. The only opinion here that matters is yours.

Joni
7th October 2007, 16:21
I agree Hitch 100% - however some people on KB have helped me gather my thoughts and thier input has helped me, so I am gratefull.

imdying
13th October 2007, 09:06
Stress can give you all sorts of fun fun physical illnesses if you let it get too high... if they can't leave their personal crap at home, and the tension in the office is making you uncomfortable on a regular basis, kick em to the curb sweetie :yes:

Joni
13th October 2007, 09:49
Thanks hun... strange how when you make a decision... then situations will always test you...

Turned the other offer down, then last week was one of the worst weeks in the office... makes a person think wtf have I done...

Colapop
13th October 2007, 09:51
I accepted the offer and it has been (so far) the best decision I've made in a long time!!

imdying
13th October 2007, 10:23
Yeah... well don't kill yourself working, there's mighty 2 strokes for that sort of nonsense :yes:

MisterD
13th October 2007, 10:25
Turned the other offer down, then last week was one of the worst weeks in the office... makes a person think wtf have I done...

The funny thing about regret is, it is always better to regret something you did do, than something you didn't...(and if you see your mother, be sure to tell her SATAN! SATAN! SATAN!)

Joni
13th October 2007, 10:28
Nah, no regret mate... I spoke with a good friend of minel ast night, she is one of the HR managers for Postie Plus, she made me realise that my decision to turn it down was the right one...

It just gets frustrating... I hope the right one comes soon... then I can be happy like Cola! :msn-wink:

why are you cussing my mother?

riffer
13th October 2007, 11:07
It's a quote from a Butthole Surfers song Jo. I think he's trying to be funny. :wacko:

Joni
13th October 2007, 11:10
Sorry, did not sleep much last night... Im a tad slow today! :yawn:

Finn
13th October 2007, 11:22
It just gets frustrating... I hope the right one comes soon...

Why don't you live the New Zealand dream and leave your job, get pregnant and go on welfare? A quarter of the population can't be wrong.

MisterD
13th October 2007, 11:32
It's a quote from a Butthole Surfers song Jo. I think he's trying to be funny. :wacko:

Well spotted that man, but I actually think it's a pretty reasonable mantra for all that (apart from the Satan bit)...translated into Kiwi, it would be "Don't die wondering.." I suppose.

Ocean1
13th October 2007, 11:38
Why don't you live the New Zealand dream and leave your job, get pregnant and go on welfare? A quarter of the population can't be wrong.

Wonder if she's not onto that already dude...


Sorry, did not sleep much last night... Im a tad slow today! :yawn:

Joni
13th October 2007, 11:58
Some people on here can be very boring out of sheer predicability!

Nice reminder why I dont usually discuss things of a personal nature on KB.

Finn
13th October 2007, 12:14
Nice reminder why I dont usually discuss things of a personal nature on KB.

In technical talk, your Humour.exe had a fatal error. This appears to be a common fault and it might pay to get the code de-bugged or re-written. Lighten up Joni.

Getting back on the topic of a personal nature, I've got a hot date tonight. Would it be too presumptuous to take a 12 pack of condoms and a litre of KY? What do you think...

Joni
13th October 2007, 12:20
I think its your style 100% Finn... go for it!!! Maybe she will tell you to fuck off... maybe she is a great lay... but hey with that appraoch you will solidify your rep as a smooth ladies man! :spanking: *swoon*

PS - Thanks for keeping the thread on track... your help/approach is great as always :rolleyes:

007XX
13th October 2007, 13:26
Oh dear… I feel like a traitorous shit!
Am I being a big softie again?
:cry:

Hi Joni...i'm sorry, I can't be bothered to read the whole thread, so I'll just jump in here and give my 0.00003 cents worth.

Firstly, I hear you when it comes to feeling guilty...I've felt the same way every time I've had to give my resignation. It's nothing to be ashamed of, it's perfectly normal as it just means you are someone with ethics and loyalty to the hand that feeds you.

However, in this instance, you should not let this detract you from the fact that the hand that feeds is also the one that bites...your employers are behaving in a less than professional manner towards you and each other, giving you undue stress in the process... no one should have to put up with these sorts of work conditions. They have broken their contractual engagement with you the minute they started including you in their marital bickering, therefor one could justifiably argue you do not owe them anything and are quite justified in wanting to get out of the situation.

So, where you are finding yourself in what sounds like a highly emotional environment, I would personally get very business like about this problem...It is a workplace, nothing more, nothing less and so if the working conditions are below the standards you expect, then make the move to a more suitable one. Remove yourself emotionally from the situation.

I truly hope you will find something you really like.

Finn
13th October 2007, 13:39
PS - Thanks for keeping the thread on track... your help/approach is great as always :rolleyes:

I do my best. Perhaps the answer to your question is in your signature.

Joni
15th May 2008, 08:55
Perhaps the answer to your question is in your signature.As usual you are right babe :sunny: The nail has been struck on the head once again...

Checked into this thread to see how long it actually took me to make a move. Almost 7 months... damn I’m becoming a wimp...

Handed in my resignation, feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders... can’t really remember why I rationalised working for such an abusive group of people... my leaving could not have happened sooner!

Onwards and upwards....

Have a nice day people :spudwave:

Str8 Jacket
15th May 2008, 09:01
Congrats chick! I handed in my notice to my shitty bosses last week. Its amazing how much all the usual shit just doesnt bother you once you've resigned. That and I can now be blunt (not to rude) to the people that caused me the most grieve and there isnt anything they can do! :sunny:

Enjoy doing as little as possible for the next few weeks! :wari:

Joni
15th May 2008, 09:08
Congrats chick! I handed in my notice to my shitty bosses last week. Its amazing how much all the usual shit just doesnt bother you once you've resigned. That and I can now be blunt (not to rude) to the people that caused me the most grieve and there isnt anything they can do! :sunny:Good on you too babe....

What I don’t understand here in NZ, is that people feel it’s ok to treat their staff however they see fit, just as long as they feel happy about it. Happy, longstanding staff produce more quality work and in turn increases the bottom line... but they seem to think the sausage machine approach works well! Strange...

I told her yesterday, that the mark of a good manager is not what they think of their own management style, but how their staff sees it... I am now in the Dog box, not that the silent treatment is that bad... peace at f***en last.

Lissa
15th May 2008, 09:35
When do you leave Joni, and have you got another job to go to? Good on you for handing in your resignation, you shouldnt have to put up with crap from anyone at work, esp your boss. Some people have Powertrips and think they own you, and they dont, everyone deserves to be treated with respect. Good luck babe.

avgas
15th May 2008, 09:43
Haha well - I'm starting to eat my words a bit.
But i still feel guilty.
I'm starting to look 'overseas', as i think i have hit my financial limit of what people are willing to pay me here. Could go back to my old job and get a good pay increase.........but that job is crap.
Just out of interest guys - what is the average time you spend in one job?

Trudes
15th May 2008, 09:46
I used to work for a company whose motto was "A happy worker is a producive worker", they kept us happy, we had fun and as long as our work was done they didn't mind how much "fun" we had!! Was an awesome place to work for!! Pity more employers and corporations don't think like this!!

Wolf
15th May 2008, 10:46
Congrats to Joni and Str8!

Good on you both.

When I handed in my resignation from my last job I felt so free - despite having no idea of where I was going to go from there. Took a lot of delight in the fact I'd taken steps to move on while so many around me were still moaning about how crap their jobs were and they "wished they could do what I was doing."

So many bosses seem to think they're doing you a favour - giving you employment and paying you a wage. They seem to forget that you are likewise doing them a favour by getting their work done and keeping their clients happy.

It's a fucking PARTNERSHIP - something that so many bosses forget.

All the best to you both with your new endeavours.

Joni
15th May 2008, 13:04
When do you leave Joni, and have you got another job to go to? Thanks babe... yes I do have another position.

I think when you are in an abusive/ suppressive place, your confidence gets chipped away a little bit at a time, and eventually you wonder if you can actually do what is needed. However I was reminded about who I am once I actively went into the market place... I had 3 positions I was looking at, and I was in the comfortable position to be able to choose what I wanted to do. Me with my slightly battered confidence was taken back that a company would create a new division to accommodate me, and give me complete freedom to run it as I see things... They recognise my skill and what I have done in the past and have the confidence in me to let me apply it to their business. It’s a huge step for me, as I have taken a few steps back and feel a little broken at the moment... but am sure I will get my mojo back once I’m into things again.


I used to work for a company whose motto was "A happy worker is a producive worker", they kept us happy, we had fun and as long as our work was done they didn't mind how much "fun" we had!! Was an awesome place to work for!! Pity more employers and corporations don't think like this!!I agree, but also feel it’s not just about fun, it’s about feeling heard and valued as a member of their staff, that they appreciate what you do and not as if they are holding you to ransom because they pay you a salary. All companies pay salaries, but only a few manage their staff right, so they can get out of them what they need to make their business successful. If I recall correctly money is only the fourth reason why people resign or stay at a company... it’s about all the other things that are on offer... and they forget that. So they lose $’s upon $’s finding new staff... training new staff... loosing new staff... instead of valuing the ones they have and supporting them so prosper, because in return they prosper.

Anyway, end of my rant... I obviously feel very strongly about this... and will hopefully apply the valuable lessons I have learnt over the last 2 years or so...

:niceone:

Big Dave
15th May 2008, 13:07
It's a fucking PARTNERSHIP - something that so many bosses forget.


Never work for me. 'Team' I can live with.

Big Dave
15th May 2008, 13:10
Good luck Joni.

Remember it's just a job huh. I've had three careers now.
When you feel like changing just do it. Meet your obligations then it's ALL about you.

FROSTY
15th May 2008, 13:19
When you are going through life working out your personal assets your best and biggest asset is YOU.
If your best asset is being chipped away at by other peoples actions then its worse than like letting someone take to ya bike with a hammer.
Getting away from that situation can only be a good thing

sunhuntin
15th May 2008, 13:21
well done, joni and str8!

ive chucked it in as well. gave them a months notice... give me time to look, and them to replace me. its nice... i no longer give a rats about anything beyond not fucking up a petrol sale. ive also started getting sharper with some people, specially the lazy ones. how hard is it to unscrew a petrol cap for someone in their 20s? or even push the flap open?
im there till 9pm every night cos we are apparently busy with gas bottles. guess they are invisible. lol. i asked to go home early last night cos we didnt have a single one, and got told to see what happens. pfft. i was gone at 8.30. kinda nice to see my partner awake and vertical for a change.

Wolf
15th May 2008, 13:21
Never work for me. 'Team' I can live with.
A believe a team is just another form of partnership (one can have more than one business partner, can they not?)

From my viewpoint, the partnership relationship I and others in our team have with the employers is: we keep things running for them so their clients are happy thus keeping food on their tables and rooves over their heads, they pay us wages/salaries to keep food on our tables and rooves over our heads.

We do need them but they also need us.

Therefore the respect should be mutual, and we should be valued by them and value them (the company) in return.

SPman
15th May 2008, 13:23
I agree, but also feel it’s not just about fun, it’s about feeling heard and valued as a member of their staff, that they appreciate what you do and not as if they are holding you to ransom because they pay you a salary. All companies pay salaries, but only a few manage their staff right, so they can get out of them what they need to make their business successful. If I recall correctly money is only the fourth reason why people resign or stay at a company... it’s about all the other things that are on offer... and they forget that. So they lose $’s upon $’s finding new staff... training new staff... loosing new staff... instead of valuing the ones they have and supporting them so prosper, because in return they prosper.

A lot of people would sympathise and agree with you on that one.

Mind you - the Fun Factor is good too..........



=Wolf.....

Rooves???????

Big Dave
15th May 2008, 13:32
A believe a team is just another form of partnership (one can have more than one business partner, can they not?)

From my viewpoint, the partnership relationship I

Yeah - Obligations both ways might define partnership I agree - but it also infers a degree of equality in the arrangement....until you have your arse in the sling, for liability, right through to caring for your bosse's own personal development I'm calling it a team. And I'm the captain. Fair play will ensue.
All my men follow me.

Wolf
15th May 2008, 13:53
Yeah - Obligations both ways might define partnership I agree - but it also infers a degree of equality in the arrangement....until you have your arse in the sling, for liability, right through to caring for your bosse's own personal development I'm calling it a team. And I'm the captain. Fair play will ensue.
All my men follow me.
Yeah, fair call.

Big Dave
15th May 2008, 14:07
Yeah, fair call.

For a Self employed bolshey capitalista bastard.

Do you know of Bill Parcells? American football coach. I heard him talk about 'entitlement' once.
Changed my ways.

MIXONE
15th May 2008, 14:10
Someone once told me that a business' greatest asset is it's staff.Do you think that still holds true.
Not you Big Dave as you are the only asset?

Big Dave
15th May 2008, 14:26
Someone once told me that a business' greatest asset is it's staff.Do you think that still holds true.
Not you Big Dave as you are the only asset?

Half a billion is a swiss account trumps four aces.

Happy productive staff is a big asset.
Nobody is irreplaceable.