Drugs in sport

[Robert Taylor]

Marion Jones admission that she used drugs while competing at international track and field events prompts me to raise the issue with relevance to motorcycle racing.

A high profile road racer got rightly nailed for drug abuse some years back. Employers are increasingly ( and painfully ) aware of the widespread use of illegal mind and mood altering substances.

Is it therefore a dangerous cocktail to have people with a fatal weakness for drug use entrusted to preparing a racing motorcycle? I know that I would absolutely forbid it myself.

[merv]

Drugs don't belong anywhere near anything where safety is an issue.

[Goblin]

Is it therefore a dangerous cocktail to have people with a fatal weakness for drug use entrusted to preparing a racing motorcycle? Absolutely! I think comparing it to a track and field sportsperson is like comparing apples and bananas though. The drugs they use are more performance enhancing and only endanger themselves, whereas a doped out mechanic is putting other's lives at risk.

[riffer]

Performance enhancing drugs in sport are cheating - pure and simple.

Mind-altering drugs in motorsport are a safety issue.

It comes down to how much you value your own life, integrity and honesty.

If you don't give a shit about yourself you sure as hell won't give one about others.

Drug abusers (whether performance enhancing or recreational) are losers.

[Grahameeboy]

Yep agree drugs are bad.

Funny world sport though, if an athelete is not fit enough they can turn to performance enhancing drugs which is illegal, in snooker if your eyesight fails with age it is okay to be prescribed glasses to enhance vision and carry on competing at same level, possibly higher level..............maybe a silly take on things but has always struck me.

[riffer]

There's a big difference.

No amount of glasses will give you better than the best vision you can have as a normal person.

Drugs however (especially steroids) can make the body perform better than a normal (sports)person.

[ajturbo]

have ANY of you even tried these preformance drugs???


do you know what they do and HOW they work???

i would bet $$ you haven't or don't!!!....

but what robert is on about has been used by so many of us, that we know what the effect it has on our ablity to comprehend the task at hand...

therefore i agree...drugs are a big no no!!! when it comes to getting on the racetrack!!!!

[Disco Dan]

I agree drugs are cheating. However I dont agree they are bad.

Why not create a class within each sport where drugs are allowed, thus taking away the 'secret drug taking' aspect?

Makes sense to me.

[SlashWylde]

Drugs don't belong anywhere near anything where safety is an issue.

Tell that to the guys who get boozed the night before a track day.

[SlashWylde]

Performance enhancing drugs in sport are cheating - pure and simple.

Mind-altering drugs in motorsport are a safety issue.

It comes down to how much you value your own life, integrity and honesty.

If you don't give a shit about yourself you sure as hell won't give one about others.

Drug abusers (whether performance enhancing or recreational) are losers.

So having a cup of coffee before an event is out then?

[boomer]

It comes down to how much you value your own life, integrity and honesty.

If you don't give a shit about yourself you sure as hell won't give one about others.

Drug abusers (whether performance enhancing or recreational) are losers.

That shit, quoted above, that you just spouted is simply bollox.

What would you class as an abuser? SKIN UP YA Co0nT!

[Paul in NZ]

What would you class as an abuser? SKIN UP YA Co0nT!

A rude, stoned guy is a drugged abuser, in sport, a drug abuser is either a cyclist or and olympic champ in track that isn't ethiopian that got caught...

In my day, a drug abuser was the prick that hogged the joint...

[Finn]

Marion Jones admission that she used drugs while competing at international track and field events prompts me to raise the issue with relevance to motorcycle racing.

A high profile road racer got rightly nailed for drug abuse some years back. Employers are increasingly ( and painfully ) aware of the widespread use of illegal mind and mood altering substances.

Is it therefore a dangerous cocktail to have people with a fatal weakness for drug use entrusted to preparing a racing motorcycle? I know that I would absolutely forbid it myself.

NZ riders need all the help they can get. Until one of them makes it on the real international circuit, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

[peasea]

Drugs don't belong anywhere near anything where safety is an issue.

Needles are dangerous, but without them how would you inject yourself?

Seriously? Drugs and motorvehicles shouldn't mix, be they legal or otherwise. I've had some real drowzy moments on hay fever pills and I'm really glad I wasn't riding/driving at the time.

Again, it's about education, not legislation.

[peasea]

Performance enhancing drugs in sport are cheating - pure and simple.

Mind-altering drugs in motorsport are a safety issue.

It comes down to how much you value your own life, integrity and honesty.

If you don't give a shit about yourself you sure as hell won't give one about others.

Drug abusers (whether performance enhancing or recreational) are losers.


I wouldn't go that far.
I've used heaps of recreational drugs, feckin' heaps, and when I get the chance I still hop on the 'e' wagon when I have some spare cash but I'm a wee bit analytical about it. It's always good fun, doesn't hurt anyone else, I/we always stay put for the night and the only thing that suffers is the sound system.

How does does that make me a loser? Could you please extrapolate?

[Mental Trousers]

If you class participating in sport and also preparing machines/equipment for use in sport as work then taking any performance enhancing or mind altering drugs is unethical and not allowed.
If you class those 2 as recreation then it's down to personal responsibility (lots of eyes seem to glaze over when you mention those 2 words together). Personally, I got over recreational drugs a very long time ago so don't take any and only drink alcohol in moderation when I know I'm going to be doing either of the above activities.

[merv]

Tell that to the guys who get boozed the night before a track day.

Exactly, so why not random test them - piss or drugs?

[merv]

Is it therefore a dangerous cocktail to have people with a fatal weakness for drug use entrusted to preparing a racing motorcycle? I know that I would absolutely forbid it myself.

OK so Marion came out of the closet and I know Robert says he won't name names, but does anyone know who is doing this? if so have you had a quiet word in their ear or do they not give a f...? Probably shame them out of sponsors money is the best way or are they the sponsor? How does the rider of said prepared bike feel? Happy to risk his/her life on it? Or again does rider give a f...?

[Skyryder]

In my day, a drug abuser was the prick that hogged the joint...

Classic. That 'cracked' me up. Pun intended.

Skyryder

[limbimtimwim]

Let 'em take performance enhancing drugs. We could have the "drugged up Olympics" and the "sober Olympics". Let the athletes be sponsored by the drug makers. All those Chinese 'women' swimmers could have the brand names emblazoned on their backs.

[Hitcher]

Drug abusers (whether performance enhancing or recreational) are losers.

Rhetoric. Unfortunately they are not. If these drugs did not work, people would not use them. Marion Jones and other conspicuous cheats have made a lot of money. Despite the tears, she still gets to keep her winnings, titles and records. Perhaps the ABs should have been on drugs...

[riffer]

Yes. Well, you may win the medal, but you lose your integrity in my book. Personally, I think the medals, winnings and results should be voided. However, the fact that people still think they can get away with it is just another symptom of our non-empathetic, egocentric, winner-takes-all society.

If the All Blacks took drugs to win they would lose my support. I'd rather they lost every game.

[MSTRS]

If the All Blacks took drugs to win they would lose my support. I'd rather they lost every game.

But only when it counts, eh? What's that....oh, they do anyway.:devil2:

[riffer]

Nah, seriously mate. Cheating with drugs SO cheapens the whole concept of pushing the body to its absolute limits.

I'm mature enough not to have to base my whole self-esteem on an All Black result, no matter how much I enjoy watching.

[Kickaha]

Exactly, so why not random test them - piss or drugs?

When I was pit crew for Truck racing we used to have random breath testing in the mornings before the racing started

[jrandom]

If the All Blacks took drugs to win they would lose my support.

Do you really think that 'testosterone propionate' is an unfamiliar phrase at the AB's training camps?

[riffer]

Come on mate, they get tested so often they'd be mad to take anabolic steroids.

[jrandom]

Come on mate, they get tested so often they'd be mad to take anabolic steroids.

Can you link to any information regarding the drug testing programme that they are subject to?

[riffer]

Not to hand at present.

Can you link to any evidence proving steroid abuse amongst NZ Rugby players?

AFAIK, the only NZ player to fail a drug test was Anton Oliver at the last World Cup (took flu tablet).

[nodrog]

only users lose drugs.

[jrandom]

Can you link to any evidence proving steroid abuse amongst NZ Rugby players?

No, of course not. I'm not seriously arguing that that's the case. I do remember from 'back in the day' when I was rather involved in the BBing and powerlifting scene that the word amongst the strength coaching community was that carefully-managed anabolic steroid use was not unknown at the top levels of NZ rugby.

But, of course, those rumours would circulate, regardless of whether they were true or not.

Bear in mind that things like fast-release testosterone esters can give a week or a fortnight of seriously boosted recovery, and then leave no trace whatsoever. You'll never stop that sort of off-season augmentation without heavy and continuous randomised testing of all players, all year round.

I really would quite like to see the drug testing programme that the ABs are subject to.

[deanohit]

Drugs are bad mmm'kay!

Personally, I don't like the drugs anymore and I've got no time for people while they are stoned. After working with some guys who take speed (or something) before work to get them through the day, I've got no patience for people while they're on drugs.

[riffer]

No, of course not. I'm not seriously arguing that that's the case. I do remember from 'back in the day' when I was rather involved in the BBing and powerlifting scene that the word amongst the strength coaching community was that carefully-managed anabolic steroid use was not unknown at the top levels of NZ rugby.

Yes, well, you would have a fair idea of how many times I've been asked by bodybuilders if I had any "spare" insulin then?

If the ABs are taking steroids then its yet another example of why they're not tough enough to win when it counts. :(

[pritch]

have ANY of you even tried these preformance drugs???


Yes! And so have you.

There are a wide range of banned drugs many of which are commonly prescribed, eg asthma medications etc. Even caffeine is banned above certain levels. Some of the substances occur naturally in the body but again are banned above stated limits.

Not all of the banned substances build strength or stamina, some like Beta blockers, slow the pulse which is important to people involved in target sports.

I was prescribed beta blockers but the world championships I was attending were not subject to drug testing. Just as well really, several other guys on the team had experienced "cardiac events" or suffered from hypertension and they were on Beta blockers too.

It isn't just the drugs though, there is blood doping, where the athlete has blood taken off at intevals and then just prior to competition the red blood cells from his/her donations is given back thus increasing the oxygen carying capacity of the blood by increasing the available haemoglobin.

With female athletes there were allegedly planned pregancies which were terminated at the strategic time to facilitate the oportune hormone levels for competion.

It would seem that if national pestige (or dollars) are at issue there are no limits.

[Nasty]

I competed in weightlifting competitions ... as did some of the others here ... I was given a card which explained what was a banned drug ... its quite amazing that sinutab and drugs like that are banned due to containing psuedoepthdrine (sp) .... even in a small amount .. .I was unable to take cold medications etc due to this type of thing. Took me years to get back to taking normal over the counter meds again as i had not taken them for so long ...

When you are talking banned drugs you are talking an extremely wide pool of drugs not just class drugs but common ones. I would not like to take on a rider who is reliant on some of those ones either as it does affect the way that someone may be thinking and their focus level.

[Pixie]

Let the athletes be sponsored by the drug makers. All those Chinese 'women' swimmers could have the brand names emblazoned on their backs.

Shaved into their back hair

[Hitcher]

Sports doping authorities are always in catch-up mode. They are generally very good at locating the last generation of performance-enhancing drugs. Top athletes can afford to stay one step ahead of the law and do so quite successfully.

[SPman]

Once big bucks become involved and not just for the "athletes", it seems anything and everything will be tried, to win.

Ever get the feeling that, once big money comes into a sport and it becomes a business, the fun and enjoyment seem to fly out the window as well as a lot of the sheer grittyness, that people put into it, because they are doing it for themselves, not a trainer, coach, media ravers, sponsors, syndicated organisation or whatever.

I must admit, that the more "professional" a sport gets, the less enjoyable it seems to become, even as a spectator.

[mstriumph]

yeh

watever happened to "it matters not who won or lost but how you played the game .........." :shutup:

[viewer]

Shaved into their back hair

Owwwwwww........... now I'm starting to bar up!!!:lol:

[Pancakes]

Seems to me that a huge number of different substances have been put into the same basket here, in the first post we have "performance enhancing" drugs and the question of having a race bike prepped by someone "on drugs". These are two very different things and even those two groupings are too vast to make a comment on. If there were only two options I'd rather have a bike worked on by someone who'd had a wee toke the night before v.s someone who'd been pissed as and was now hung-over even though booze is legal. In saying that, people should be in a position to perform the job their paid to do in full even if they sweep the workshop floor but where safety is concerned I'd really hope anyone who knows would kick up a fuss.

In regards to "illegal" drugs I think it's really funny that anything that is illegal is viewed (most likely by eye that have never tried anything) as bad when I beleive there can be "a time and a place" just like most on this site agree there is for the odd jaunt past the posted speed limit. The often warned danger in illegal drugs is that some are addictive (and I don't like that, and hate ciggarettes for the grip they get on people but still they are legal. The scaremongers will tell you that you'l like the others so much they'll take a hold on your life which is true for some too) The same people may be binge or habitual drinkers or "neurologically" addicted to crap, fat or sugar filled foods and obese so they can't perform their jobs as well as if they were not obese. Being overweight can cause sleep issues, irregular or imbalenced hormanes and a host of other issues but everyone knows, you gotta leave the wife beating drinkers and pie chompers alone to the detriment of themselves and their families and take out your anger on anyone at all who takes illegal drugs.

[Pancakes]

As for the performance enhancing drugs most of the anti-doping procedures would meant that masking agents would need to be used, or low levels of fast acting and quickly disposed of drugs would be taken. I beleive that the vast majority of performance enhancement in todays sports isn't someone popping a wonder pill then running twice as fast a minute later. Carefully constructed potions are normally used to allow athletes to tailor their growth in the training season and to allow quick recovery. Once they are competing there aren't drugs left as such but the athletes are way better off than they would have been. There are also a whole bunch of things as mentioned before, "blood doping" taking your own blood out, letting your body replace it then having your red cells put back in. In cycling there is an allowed level of blood thickness and riders with a higher level need to proove their geneology back to a mountain tribe etc to show why. The funny thing is the agreed "thickness" is way above the normal level and is almost never found to be natually occuring. Coming from coaching people in rock climbing there were lots of climbers taking Creatine and all the rest. I never let my kids use anythng because they were just kids, even enhancers that were allowed because of the danger to their growing bodies from muscle over development etc.

It's been a massive rant and I've only scratched the surface but you get the idea.

Still weird that people will get drunk and smoke ciggies but not smoke weed, or will take E and reduce the seratonin available in their brain but won't take Cocaine 'cos it's "worse". Only by reputation, not so in actual harmful affects on the body.

Nighty night.

[Mr. Peanut]

Make performance enhancing drugs legal. I wouldn't mind a few of the tested products that filter down, and it would make the sport more interesting.

[pritch]

There seem to be problems with some of the steroids in particular. Some are thought to sometimes damage organs such as the liver and kidneys. Less seriously they can cause massive acne (I'm always suspicious when looking at a sporting champion/zit queen on TV ).

Steroids can also cause violent mood swings (roid rage). If there's an Olympic gold medal or world championship at stake somebody will be tempted.
To risk the associated health problems for no reason at all seems just a little odd.

[jrandom]

There seem to be problems with some of the steroids in particular. Some are thought to sometimes damage organs such as the liver and kidneys. Less seriously they can cause massive acne (I'm always suspicious when looking at a sporting champion/zit queen on TV ).

Synthetic anabolic steroids are all about shuffling carbon bonds around in the testosterone molecule to come up with variants of it that affect different parts of the physiology more than others (you might want something that encourages recovery and hypertrophy even more strongly than natural testosterone, but that doesn't cause hair loss, for instance).

Orally administered steroids have to be designed with a certain configuration (alpha alkylation) to make them resistant to breakdown in the digestive system and liver and allow them into the bloodstream. Unfortunately, being resistant to breakdown in that way also makes them significantly hepatotoxic. Milligram for milligram, the likes of methandrostenolone are actually less damaging than paracetamol, but the fact that one stays on the stuff for weeks on end is what causes damage. Try staying on Panadol for a month, you'll be sick as a dog in no time.

Because of this, injectable esters of testosterone and synthetic derivatives thereof are the usual delivery mechanism for steroids.


Steroids can also cause violent mood swings (roid rage).

Curiously enough, this is primarily due to estrogen. Testosterone and some closely-related steroids break down to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme in the body, and as all married men know, estrogen is a very psychoactive substance! Careful management via aromatisation blockers and inert estrogen receptor antagonists to ensure that levels of estrogen in a man don't exceed normal parameters is necessary to avoid 'roid rage' and other estrogen-related side effects such as gynecomastia (bitch tits).

Anabolic steroids are like any other drug - they have their uses and need to be considered in a holistic system of treatment for any patient. Guys mainly fuck themselves up with the juice by not knowing what they're doing.

[Grahameeboy]

There's a big difference.

No amount of glasses will give you better than the best vision you can have as a normal person.

Drugs however (especially steroids) can make the body perform better than a normal (sports)person.

I agree, however, an athlete's performance declines.....same as a snooker player, their eyesight declines, this is obviously an essential function for playing snooker. They cannot judge so well so get glasses to see better and start winning again....so what is the difference between an athlete who has a permanent problem and takes drugs to solve the problem and a snooker player who gets glasses to solve his problem.

[Hitcher]

so what is the difference between an athlete who has a permanent problem and takes drugs to solve the problem and a snooker player who gets glasses to solve his problem.

Indeed. The next big thing for people to contemplate is the advances made in prosthetic limbs. I predict that within five years the performances from amputees -- particularly in running events -- will exceed those from the "normally abled", and they will want to be able to compete in "real" track and field events (including the Olympics), rather than being relegated to "special" events.

If this first hurdle is cleared (figuratively), will the normally-abled, in pursuit of competitive advantage, then consider amputation and prostheses so that they can leg it on a more even footing?

[Grahameeboy]

Indeed. The next big thing for people to contemplate is the advances made in prosthetic limbs. I predict that within five years the performances from amputees -- particularly in running events -- will exceed those from the "normally abled", and they will want to be able to compete in "real" track and field events (including the Olympics), rather than being relegated to "special" events.

If this first hurdle is cleared (figuratively), will the normally-abled, in pursuit of competitive advantage, then consider amputation and prostheses so that they can leg it on a more even footing?

I like that.......but you are right........I mean a guy with say a prosthetic lower leg in theory uses less oxygen to move the legs......

Maybe the officials will only allow mineral oils rather than synthetic oil to lubricate the parts to legislate for the equivalent of 'Doping'.

Plus these days with the development of prosthetics, is a person with a prosthetic limb actually 'unabled'. I would say "No"

[Pancakes]

There's already more than one person with two prosthetic legs that can run faster than leg-legs, doesn't look like a leg tho'. Is like two curved carbon leaf-springs and the guy has both stumps cut off at the same place, just below the knee so having the joint still there and symmetrical would help. Still not much consolation for having no legs.

[BarBender]

Rhetoric. Unfortunately they are not. If these drugs did not work, people would not use them...

Agreed.
It aint cheating if you've got 9/10 people lined up on the starting line and:
- two are blood packing
- two have got a masking agent
- three are on EPO
- one is possibly an experimental gene splice and
- the last one is the Kiwi who turned up clean as a whistle on a B standard qualifying result.
No point in flexing 'natural' non-drug use crusading muscles in that race.

Performance enhancing drugs work.
And we're wrong if we think its purely a personal decision. Governments, international and national sporting bodies push it and they in turn recruit coaches who have PE degrees with chemistry majors.

[Grahameeboy]

There's already more than one person with two prosthetic legs that can run faster than leg-legs, doesn't look like a leg tho'. Is like two curved carbon leaf-springs and the guy has both stumps cut off at the same place, just below the knee so having the joint still there and symmetrical would help. Still not much consolation for having no legs.

A leg has 2 main bones so the prosthetic legs are not a lot different really.

Well if this guy you mention is faster than legs legs then what consolation does he need. He can walk, run etc just like us so if I was in his 'legs' I would not be too bothered.......better consolation than having the old papiamashe legs....

[Pancakes]

A leg has 2 main bones so the prosthetic legs are not a lot different really.

Well if this guy you mention is faster than legs legs then what consolation does he need. He can walk, run etc just like us so if I was in his 'legs' I would not be too bothered.......better consolation than having the old papiamashe legs....

They were made for running, he had real looking ones for day to day use. I'd miss my legs I recon.

[Grahameeboy]

They were made for running, he had real looking ones for day to day use. I'd miss my legs I recon.

I would miss mine but as long as I could walk I would not complain.

[limbimtimwim]

I would miss mine but as long as I could walk I would not complain.Changing gears would require re-learning however.

[Grahameeboy]

Changing gears would require re-learning however.

Nah I would have Sturney Archer gears...................much easier.

[steveb64]

A rude, stoned guy is a drugged abuser, in sport, a drug abuser is either a cyclist or and olympic champ in track that isn't ethiopian that got caught...

In my day, a drug abuser was the prick that hogged the joint...

Brings back hazy memories (from years back) of post-Manfield piss-up at the pub down the road - about 80% of the F1 (that's what it was called back then) field RIDERS were all lined up for a toke (in shed out back). Included some pretty well known names...

AFAIK there were even a few who'd light up BEFORE they went out racing. Didn't seem to cause any problems... They just went a bit slower. Mostly.

[Timber020]

Drug bans started because it was bad form to have olympic athletes dying in the middle of the event infront of thousands of people. To legalise any sort of performance drug use would be just insane, although the cheats will always be there at least it gives kids the impression that they can succeed through hard work and commitment.