Luigi's Chroming Skills. [Archive]

tri boy

10th October 2007, 17:11

Six month old rim on a new Triumph Scrambler.
Italian made.
One of several faults of the wheel assembly including:
Hub poorly machined. (Manufacturer unknown).
Easily warped discs. (Malaysian I think).
Poor chrome finish on spokes.
Cheap brake calipers/hoses.
Triumph UK warranty back up. Hopeless. (I feel sorry for NZ franchises. Their reputation will suffer).
Will I buy another Triumph? Never again. (bike has been off the road for 4 weeks, with no progress, so I will dip into my pocket again):(
Photos show rust damage after wire brushing the flakes away.

Mr. Peanut

10th October 2007, 18:27

This is pretty shocking considering what UK winters are like, you'd expect finish to be top notch :mad:

Paul in NZ

10th October 2007, 18:34

Feck - my 37 year old Triumph rims (Dunlop) are better than that... miles better...

Crisis management

10th October 2007, 18:41

tri boy

10th October 2007, 18:41

Did a bit more research.
Rim manufacturer is " CMR ", formerly "Borrani Wheels".
Established in the 1920s, makers of car/motorcycle wheels for many companys, ie Ferrari, Rover, triumph bikes, and harleys.
You would think after 80 years of making wheels, that the f**kers would get it right.:spanking:
Working on better options, like Excel rim, after I get the hub remachined. (.3mm run out at the disc carrier face on the hub. That equates to about .5-6mm at the pad contact area.
Re lace the wheel, and try to use the standard disc.(need a new one maybe).
The thrills of buying non Japanese.:(

tri boy

10th October 2007, 18:52

Geez Brent, and here I was looking at Daytona's and Sprint's
earlier this week trying to decide whether they were worth buying! :eek5:

I am always amazed that we can still get crapy product foisted on us by manufacturers, the only reason can be cost saving. How long have bloody spoked rims been around? 40 years ago my Healing (top of the line, 3 gears even!!) had the bleeding things and I don't remember them rusting.

I hope they pull finger and get the rim replaced now!!

Iain

I'm a bit testy at the moment, as this has been a trying experience. I can't go into too much detail, as I not here to cause the NZ agents greif, but the UK has nil stock even if they finally process my claim.
My only reasoning to their nil stock, is that they have been flat out replacing wheel assemblys. (I have checked on other forums, and these wheels/brakes have been common faults).
I can't wait for the UK to get its act together, I got riding to do, so I will fix it myself.
If you plan to buy Triumph, ask the sales man about Warranty turn around times.....he might just faint.:thud:

Crisis management

10th October 2007, 18:53

The thrills of buying non Japanese.:(

Hey, I've owned Ducati's remember........one of my first GT750's had Borrani rims, they were bloody good then (1974).

Hang in there, we need youre guidance around the Waikato soon!

tri boy

10th October 2007, 18:58

Funny how Borrani rims were fine back then.
Thats about when the company was bought out, and became CMR.
Me thinks cost cutting has increased, and quality has suffered.

Pancakes

10th October 2007, 19:00

Ay thats a bit shit mate, from a big manufacturer and one of the ones that people would associate with being at the priceyer end of the market but more quality than some. Doesn't matter where or who they get to make parts for them, they should be made to spec a. And on an off road bike too.

Conquiztador

14th October 2007, 23:36

tri boy

15th October 2007, 08:32

Bit of an update.
John at Wheel and Frame NZ in Cambridge has trued the disc to the axle angle as best as possible.
After discussing the general state of build quality etc, he is of the impression that any other wheel assy supplied from Triumph may be as bad, if not worse.
He has noticed a general decline in quality standards over the years, and has his own contacts for quality electroplating. Expensive he admits, but its true triple chroming, with that deep, almost blue hue to it.
The wheel is back on the bike, (we used Fishalene to halt the corrosion), and there is still a slight pulse, and grab/release feel to the front brake, but much better than before.
Can't get a replacement rim, as Triumph UK has nil stock, and I'm not holding my breath re the warranty claim,(even if it gets processed by Xmas):angry2:
2/10 for customer support Triumph. Well done.....NOT!

Paul in NZ

15th October 2007, 09:02

I dunno how you guys that buy new bikes keep your cool in situations like this. I'd throw a major spaz.... Are you seriously suggesting a major manufacturer thats cultivated a 'quality' image is NOT going to step up and sort that out for you? What possible excuse could they have? If it's not a rude question, what in $$ terms has this cost you personally? I guess if you have just retrued the wheel and killed the rust its less than $500 but rebuilding the wheel and rechroming the rims not going to be cheap.

I'm astonished......

tri boy

15th October 2007, 10:17

I'll give you a bit of an overall costing Paul, involving only the mods that I felt were required to make the Scrambler worth the $16000 odd that it was sold for. At that price you would think major components would be, if not top of the range, at least of a high standard.(Swallows hard to ignore financial sting).

Suspension: Rear shocks changed as the originals were bottom barrel cheapies. $1400 approx.

Front forks: Set up by RT, with springs/Emulators, because the 1950s designed Dampner Rod assys were terrible off seal. $800 approx.

Front wheel: One disc supplied under warranty to try to solve brake fault. (It didn't, so then it was assumed that a dent in the rim that was quite minor was the cause, WTF:scratch: and they wouldn't warant the claim).
Note; Mechanic's 101 says the disc/hub is in direct relation to the AXLE, not the rim. Plus with the dent removed (at my cost) the fault remained.
So far the wheel has cost me $350 aprox.
Further costs of bash plate.$250. (should be on a off seal m/cycle maybe etc), and a few smaller costs that amount to another $200 aprox.
I know this will not be the end, as the bike comes into its second year of warranty, and hopefully I will get a smoother run.
Should of bought a KTM or a higher spec bike as the total cost will be around the $20,000 mark for a inferior product. Ya live and learn.

Paul in NZ

15th October 2007, 10:34

$20K ???? Blardy heck... I don't think I can afford motorcycles much longer at this rate..

Cheers

imdying

15th October 2007, 11:05

I'm with Paul... no satisfaction, then we're off to court :yes:

merv

15th October 2007, 12:06

Cripes the wheels should have had alloy rims like any decent trail/adventure bike. That looks worse than my XL175 did when it was over 26 years old.

tri boy

15th October 2007, 14:26

Thanks for the support guys.:msn-wink:
Yes, i have been tempted to go down the route of Consumer affairs claim, or Motor trade tribunal. I have needed to use litigation in past incidents with employment law, and Injury Claims in both Aus and NZ, and have never lost yet.
But it can be a long slow process that nowadays I think I would only use in claims of a higher dollar value. The sleepless nights, and disruption to general living just barely make it worth while.
I will continue to hope for some satisfaction from Triumph, and I'm picking the NZ end are feeling a bit embarrassed. (I know of claims over 5mths old that haven't been sorted due to the UKs system). Plus at this stage they have no wheel assys available. I'm just hoping Bajaj, (Indian company) buys Bloor out. At least then people will may get better customer service. I have found Asians, and Indians to have a much higher work ethic, and be willing to solve problems quickly. Rule Britania? It hasn't for 50+ yrs, and is rapidly dissapearing beneath the waves. GOOD FUCKIN RIDDANCE!:shit:
Appologies to RT and those that still support the place.:done:

Pancakes

15th October 2007, 19:14

So you buy a "quality not quantity" bike for $16k, spend $3g on a brand new bike to get it rideable and people hassle Hyosungs! Buy one new for $6k and spend $13 thousand on it, holy crap that'd be a machine!

It's funny how there is still a UK/USA/China/India thing going on. If you want a shit part cheap as made on a place with a dirt floor, Chinese manufacturers can do it. Macpac go and take designs that are amazing with high tech materials to China, things that would have priced themselves out of a market if made here and they can make those too. The Chinese could make any bike they wanted as good but cheaper if that was the goal but they wouldn't move enough units!

tri boy

15th October 2007, 19:41

Ummm, I'm not getting your point.
I'm losing something in translation.:no:

Paul in NZ

15th October 2007, 20:09

Well of course - quality aint always quality is it? (Never mind the quality madam, feel the width)

A few years back Moto Guzzi Quotas suffered from cracked rear rims (alloy excel brand) and there was all kinds of hoo ha! The reality is that all manufactured goods that rely on assemblies / components from third parties will suffer from these kinds of issues. The thing that makes a difference is the quality of the response from the manufacturer and how serious they are about their 'quality'.

Having said that - it's difficult to deal with these issues from the other side of the globe, not impossible but difficult. The key issues to me would be;

1 Is this a common fault?

2 Is it a safety issue?

3 Is it a useability issue?

I guess all of the above would determine the response but lets face it, dodgy electrics, peeling paint, crap suspension etc etc and all the makers have suffered from issues eh? The good ones sort it out and move on.....

geoffm

15th October 2007, 20:23

merv

15th October 2007, 20:30

I guess that rust has character.

Pancakes

15th October 2007, 20:42

Ummm, I'm not getting your point.
I'm losing something in translation.:no:

I promise I had a point but yeah, probably my least coherant post!

Conquiztador

15th October 2007, 22:15

Shoulda bought a Jappa...
Why do people put up with this sort of crap from Euro bike and car makers? It is totally unacceptable.

You have more patience than me - my first stop would be the District COourt to get some of the paperwork for the Disputes Tribunal and affadavits from the wheel and frame people. Don't protect Triumph NZ - they represent the brand - they were happy enough to take yourmoney and the profit from the sale. Nail them with the CGA and tell them you want a new bike. Under the CGA, they have to have part support. IF they cannto supply parts, then maybe an aftermarket wheel or rim. I have seen better quality on a Chinese trailbike.
A few letters to the papers, fairgo, etc would be worthwhile.

Totally agree here. They have a responsibility to put this right.

I have never purchased a new bike. Always s/h ones that I then fix up and make worth more then when I puchased. Can not think of one I have lost money on. And your story here shows me that what I am doing is right for me. There is no way in hell I would allow this to happen to me. I have owned some old Trumpies. Bonnies, Tigers etc. But they were the "real deal". Never really warmed to the new ones. And this info was the nail in the coffin for me re "modern" Triumphs.

Hope they come to the party (and fast). This kind of info will spread like wildfire...

tri boy

16th October 2007, 07:46

I guess that rust has character.

:clap: Smells like "Fish"..elene now also.:killingme

I guess we can all live with component failures etc. Its normally not a huge issue in most mechanical sectors. I can recall many examples in heavy mining/machinery that really showed customer support. ie An O&K Face shovels Slew ring failed under warranty at a mine site that I was working on.
O&K Germany flew one out on a Russian Antonov to Aus (the only plane that the ring could fit inside. We are talking 8mtr+ Dia), at a freight cost of $45000.
The Machine needed 3 50 tonne cranes, and a work force of 20 guys around the clock to get it going in under 70hrs.
Extreme example I know, but it highlights product support. If your willing to market a product, you MUST be able to support it, and the clients, or sink to the swamp that supports "fly by night" dealers.
Interestingly, Triumphs Sales Manager was waxing lyrical about their customer service in Bike Rider magazine only two issues ago, and slagging out independent dealers also. Gee Ms Beckhaus, I bet you feel a bit embarrassed at the moment:oi-grr:

zaq

19th October 2007, 22:34

My front rim (Bonnie Black) is buggered too... a year and a half old. I got a bit of a fright at tyre change time to see how bad it actually was.

Dealer put in a warranty claim for me earlier this week. I guess I'll find out what the deal is next week. I'm really not looking forward to a warranty scuffle... just wanna ride!

The rust goes all the way around. Here are some dodgy rim pics:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/zaqtronic/rims/82c6cee9.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/zaqtronic/rims/8eb3b9a1.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/zaqtronic/rims/f36d2d85.jpg

I'm thinking of getting the rims (hopefully new replaced under warranty) coated from someone like HPCoatings (www.hpcoatings.co.nz - found the link here on kb), but I'm certainly not looking forward to the hassle (not to mention cost).

Ride safe,
ZAQ

tri boy

20th October 2007, 07:35

Like your blog write up zaq.:2thumbsup Looks like the Bonnie is getting you around the country comfortably.
Those Italian wheel assys are a disappointment, and Triumph UK need to do a safety recall soon as.:argue:
Who can recall the Firestone tyre debacle a few years back. Pretty well cost them their reputation and customer base. And Chrysler spent millions in damage control after a component failure caused a fatal accident in the US.
If nothing has changed from TriumphNZ by next warrant time, I'm letting LTSA, Consumer affairs, MTA, and possibly the media know about this.:2guns:
The rim shouldn't fail while its under warranty, but I'm thinking 5yrs down the track. Those rusty areas WILL fail and the front wheel WILL collapse.

GET IT SORTED TRIUMPH>:angry2:

Bonez

20th October 2007, 11:49

Bummer guys. Good luck with the claims.

Any cast wheels available for them yet? They'd look sweet with Lester style wheels.

Bonez

20th October 2007, 11:53

I guess that rust has character.Gingas are everywhere mate.................

tri boy

20th October 2007, 15:23

Bummer guys. Good luck with the claims.

Any cast wheels available for them yet? They'd look sweet with Lester style wheels.

Only option I'm considering is Lacing Excel alloy rims to the hubs. But that isn't an option at the moment. Need to stop spending $ on sickles....:yawn:yeah as if thats gunna happen:soon:

merv

20th October 2007, 16:59

Gingas are everywhere mate.................

The crack I was really trying to make was that people say how these "foreign" bikes have character compared to our beloved Japanese bikes. Usually its about how they run roughly or won't idle or break down or some such so I thought premature rust fitted the "character" mould as well - kinda rustic wouldn't you say.

Your CX500 or GB just couldn't possibly have this amount of character.

Bonez

20th October 2007, 18:05

The crack I was really trying to make was that people say how these "foreign" bikes have character compared to our beloved Japanese bikes. Usually its about how they run roughly or won't idle or break down or some such so I thought premature rust fitted the "character" mould as well - kinda rustic wouldn't you say.

Your CX500 or GB just couldn't possibly have this amount of character.

Definately not. Psss I did get get your meaning btw.

"Character" appears to be a rather subjective thing though. Cb550fs don't have "character" because the rims last more than 20 years before you replace them ;), but it does leak oil, brakes squeal, the new oem headers I fitted 20 years ago are still in good shape, and its "old". The CX smokes, vibrates, things fall off it, keeps falling over, it leaks oil and it's "old". The GB is simple and fun to ride dispite being under powered but does not leak but it's not so "old". It vibrates and rattles like hell at 7500rpm-red line though. But none of them has "character" bud.

Started a thread a while back on the subject- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=41087&highlight=character

Edit- sorry for being completely off topic.

zaq

1st November 2007, 23:03

Like your blog write up zaq.:2thumbsup Looks like the Bonnie is getting you around the country comfortably.
Those Italian wheel assys are a disappointment, and Triumph UK need to do a safety recall soon as

Hi mate... well, the folk at Triumph UK rejected the warranty claim that I asked my dealer to put in on my behalf to Triumph NZ, who then forwarded the claim to Triumph UK. So Triumph NZ suggested putting a claim in again... ??? I really wasn't interested in taking part in all this finger-up-the-arse business, so I decided to forget about it. I then got a rear wheel puncture, and took the opportunity to clean up the rims and paint them. Incidentally the rear rim was rust-free, and looked new - like it should!

Anyway, here are the rims after cleaning, scuffing, priming and painting. They better bloody well stay like this now!

Hope your claim was successful.

Ride safe.

PS - thanks for your comments on my blog. NZ sure is a fantastic place to explore :woohoo:

Devil

2nd November 2007, 07:52

Just noticed this thread and thought i'd stick my oar in.

I've NEVER had to wait more than 3 days for a part after a warranty claim was processed with Triumph (I always find it hilarious when people talk about 6 weeks for stuff from Japan!). Always had incredible service by Triumph NZ. I find the claim process lacking, with everything having to be approved by Triumph UK. This has taken as long as 5 days.

Holeshot motorcycles has always made it bareable with providing great loaners whenever I had an issue. Even going ahead and straight away fitting parts before Triumph had approved it (in cases where it was an obvious fault).

I will be buying Triumph again.

In your case it seems that a large production fault has really fucked things up when it came to the logistics of fixing a widespread problem (being out of stock etc).

Pixie

2nd November 2007, 10:07

Buy Japanese.

Pixie

2nd November 2007, 10:14

I have owned some old Trumpies. Bonnies, Tigers etc. But they were the "real deal". Never really warmed to the new ones. And this info was the nail in the coffin for me re "modern" Triumphs.

What? The old ones weren't Crap?

Must've been just bad luck that made their bike industry go down the crapper in the sixties

PS "Tommy" would have specified what standard of chrome "Luigi" applied to the rims.

"We putta da best triple choma plate on dees rims.Yes?Magnifico!
"Na,mate,Too expensive.Just once over lightly,the punters won't know the difference."

Conquiztador

2nd November 2007, 14:09

What? The old ones weren't Crap?

Must've been just bad luck that made their bike industry go down the crapper in the sixties

One word: Unions.

tri boy

2nd November 2007, 15:09

Bit of an update. Triumph Uk has approved the Rim Claim from what I have been told.:2thumbsup
Thanks to Mike at Hamilton M/Cycles for his efforts. I'm sure the Kiwi Dealers feel frustrated by the Big Brother approach that Bloor (triumph Uk) insists on using with regards to warranty claims, as I guess time is lost with triplicate + paper work. However, I can look forward to next week, getting the front wheel changed. I will see if they can Fishelene the new one also.
With regards to the brake operation fault......Even after the truing of rim/disc etc, it has resurfaced, and seems to be more noticable when the brakes get warmer, rather than cold.:scratch: This could be a Red Herring, but over this Summer I will try Stainless Hoses, Different Pads, A different brake fluid, and if that fails, I will think about aftermarket Disc/Caliper/Master Cylinder.
Its kind of fun, tracking down faults, like being back in the bike industry all over again.
Stay tuned.

tri boy

8th November 2007, 16:42

So, I've got the bike back, with the new front wheel assy.:msn-wink:
All good, (still with a bit of brake fluctuation, but I plan on further mods to that at my own pace).
Mike and the boys were as helpful as usual, so good result all round.
Got home, and out of interest I checked to see who made the new wheel.
Seems Triumph has changed suppliers, as it is a "Union Manufacturing Rim"
So did a wee search on them, and this what I found:
Est 1982. 98% owned by Okaya + co Japan.
Head office, and main plant is based in Thailand. Plant also in the Phillipines.
Suppliers for: Honda, Kawasaki,Ducati, Yamaha, Triumph.......most except for maybe BMW, but the company is German "TUV" certified, so that may change.
They are also a huge electroplating company, so hopefully the rust issue has gone (at least up front).
So it seems Triumph has either run the Borrani stock down to zero, and are using what ever they can get, or are consolidating more manufacturing in Asia. I pick it is the last. Either way things are looking up.:niceone:

Bonez

9th November 2007, 05:03

Stay tuned.Waiting in anticipation. Its good to get feedback from owners about upkeep/problems/issues of their various machine.

Good to see Triumph came through with the warrenty claim.

Max Preload

10th November 2007, 21:27

In your case it seems that a large production fault has really fucked things up when it came to the logistics of fixing a widespread problem (being out of stock etc).

They're already got the tooling, so another manufacturing run to fix a known and clearly common problem should not be an issue at all, especially considering that it appears to be more of a preparation or finishing problem than a flawed design. It's not like they have to start from scratch.

Anyone know where the rims are actually made?