Buy Probitas (all you farmers, that is)

[Manxman]

60 minutes just ran an article on Probitas, which was developed by a Joe Average farmer trying to to make his - and others - lot better.

Commerce Commission get whiff of it (no one who bought it has actually complained about the product) and decide to do the 'justify some joker's job in Wgn' thing by trying to close him down...because "scientifically, it just cannot work as advertised".

Farmers say it works.

Commerce Commission Scientist (who has mates at Ballance, et al - competitors to Joe Average incidentally - but who is 'absolutely' independent) says it doesn't, therefore this seems to give him the right to bring all the power and resource of our nanny state against the producer of the product.

It's basically Commerce Commission guy's word, against the 1000 farmers who use it (remember, no complaints).

WTF.

There must be another side to this story, but I'm buggered if I can see it.

I cannot believe that I'm saying this, but: Go Melanie Reid (the reporter). This is the best piece of journalism I've seen in a veeeeeerrrrry long time.

Outcome of this story (hopefully):
1) Probitas sales go through the roof;
2) Commerce Commission guy loses credibility (already achieved, I think).
3) journalism starts to make small inroads to repair its credibility

[Biggles41]

Yep I watched that aswell mainly because I work in that industry myself, this is a classic case of some dimwit type scientist who most likely has shares in these solid fertiliser companies, not actually understanding any thing about mother nature, energy fields, Ley lines, (Or Dragon paths whatever you like to call them)
theories of ancient farming practices, because it it just not the accepted way of doing things in the modern age.

If scientifically it does not add up - but it works then one could reasonably ascertain that the science is wrong, because a 1000 or so farmers can't be wrong.

NZ losing $5 million a year, yea right more like Ravensdown and Balance losing $5 million a year.

And I know what you mean about nanny state constantly telling and controlling peoples lives.

[Laava]

I love a good conspiracy, me!

[Swoop]

Nice to see that the experts from Wellytown had not bothered to step foot onto the farms involved.
How does one spell "backhander"?

It smells of something other than cowshit.

[oldrider]

One of my personal interests is soil, I missed the programme but googled "Probatis".

Found the Commerce Commissions site on the subject.

Interesting how they came by their information and who their expert was. :Pokey: John.

[Romeo]

Was just listening to the NewsTalkZB and a farmer phoned up, seemed to know his stuff and claimed that it worked wonders. Interestingly he said that he had insider knowledge that there was a fertiliser company backing the enquiry - so that adds to the conspiracy theory.

I guess joe farmer forgot to put all the necessary small print on his product, a costly mistake. Just another case of big business shitting on the little guy via any means necessary.

[Drum]

Reporter to Scientist: The farmers say it works.
Scientist to Reporter: So? People thought the world was flat.
Reporter to Scientist: So are you saying that the Farmers are wrong when they say it works?
Scientist to Reporter:The farmers can't know if it works. It takes scientific tests to prove if it works.


Did anyone notice how defensive that scientist was? What a laugh!

[Krusti]

One of the most interesting statements was that this false advertising was not only costing farmers money due to lost production as well as the cost of having to fix their soils but it was taking sales away from normal fert suppliers!

Competition sucks eh?

[Steam]

I'm still a skeptic, until I see some indpendent tests.
I don't think the anecdotal evidence can be trusted.
Wasn't it just a few years ago that farmers were swearing black and blue
that the Moon method of weather forecasting worked too? And that's just utter bull.
And some farmers used to dowse for the best spots to dig wells!
Hell, a lot of people believe there's a God, just goes to show how wrong people can be.

I'll believe it when I see some double-blind trials.

[doc]

I'm still a skeptic, until I see some indpendent tests.
I don't think the anecdotal evidence can be trusted.
Wasn't it just a few years ago that farmers were swearing black and blue
that the Moon method of weather forecasting worked too? And that's just utter bull.
And some farmers used to dowse for the best spots to dig wells!
Hell, a lot of people believe there's a God, just goes to show how wrong people can be.

I'll believe it when I see some double-blind trials.

We have a fertilizer locally called "Biophos", but he gets clamped down pretty hard by the big boys.
Few years ago a woman around Paeroa I think use to treat her sheep with zinc for FE . MAF use to discredit her all the time. And what do they do now ?

[Dooly]

I was watching the programme and thought what an arrogant tosser that so called scientist was.
Started looking thru the mail at the same time, and the first thing I picked up was a pamphelt that was in our rural box advocating a fertiliser firm and lo and behold, it was forwarded, and editted by the same fuckwit 'scientist' on the programme, extolling the virues of said fertiliser!

[Pixie]

Reporter to Scientist: The farmers say it works.
Scientist to Reporter: So? People thought the world was flat.
Reporter to Scientist: So are you saying that the Farmers are wrong when they say it works?
Scientist to Reporter:The farmers can't know if it works. It takes scientific tests to prove if it works.


Did anyone notice how defensive that scientist was? What a laugh!

Brings to mind the pro man made climate change industry

[sAsLEX]

Brings to mind the pro man made climate change industry

But he got the Nobel prize...... he cant be wrong? Can he?

[MSTRS]

Reporter to Scientist: The farmers say it works.
Scientist to Reporter: So? People thought the world was flat.
Reporter to Scientist: So are you saying that the Farmers are wrong when they say it works?
Scientist to Reporter:The farmers can't know if it works. It takes scientific tests to prove if it works.


Did anyone notice how defensive that scientist was? What a laugh!

I'd go a step or ten further and state the man proved scientifically that he has no credibility. I mean, what was with all the 'umms' and the looking over the top of his glasses. Yes sir mister professor who knows everything sorry to have wasted your time.
Too right this is BigFert crapping on the competition.

[terbang]

Yup saw that, the commerce commission guy not only shot himself in the foot, but he blew his whole leg off! He looked like a right chump there admitting that he had close contact with his old university buddies who were now with the large fertilizer companies that had his personal endorsements on their brochures... Science is always right of course and there was a time that they said the earth was flat too.

[peasea]

Yup saw that, the commerce commission guy not only shot himself in the foot, but he blew his whole leg off! He looked like a right chump there admitting that he had close contact with his old university buddies who were now with the large fertilizer companies that had his personal endorsements on their brochures... Science is always right of course and there was a time that they said the earth was flat too.

Agreed. If ever there was a conflict of interest there it is! Conspiracy theorists unite. (Smacked of the same ethics and modus operandi as the PCA actually....)

[Skyryder]

I only picked up half of it but considering there have been no complaints about the product I was struck by one farmer saying he operates a multi million dollar buisiness and if it did not work he would know by the results.

Seems to me the fert companies have enlisted the commerce commision to close this guy down and boost their sales.

Skyryder

[klingon]

I'm still a skeptic, until I see some indpendent tests.
I don't think the anecdotal evidence can be trusted...

Yep, I'm sceptical too. But that doesn't mean I agree with the Commerce Commission in this case.

There are all sorts of bizarre claims made about products ("this shampoo will breathe new life into your hair!") but they really seem to have gone after this guy in a big way without any evidence that his product/technique doesn't work.


...Did anyone notice how defensive that scientist was? What a laugh!

Yes I did notice. His body language became more and more defensive as the questions got sharper. Whatever the truth of the fertiliser issue, I would NOT trust that guy to advise me on it.

[ManDownUnder]

Reporter to Scientist: The farmers say it works.
Scientist to Reporter: So? People thought the world was flat.

Reporter to Scientist: Weren't those people scientists?


Reporter to Scientist: So are you saying that the Farmers are wrong when they say it works?
Scientist to Reporter:The farmers can't know if it works. It takes scientific tests to prove if it works.


Did anyone notice how defensive that scientist was? What a laugh!

LOL... just one amendment I'd like to suggest.

I'm not knocking science - I personally think it is the way the truth etc... but even science admits it doesn't know it all...