Wire barriers TV3 NEWS TONIGHT

[Draco]

Hi all,

Zapf & I have just been interviewed by TV3 for the news tonight regarding the recent death involving wire barriers. Zapf has been interviewed as a close friend of the deceased and his experiences in the aftermath of such a horrible accident. I was interviewed to express the opinion/concerns of motorcyclists regarding wire barriers.

The reporter has done her best to represent the facts but has indicated that she is at the mercy of her producer. So fingers crossed nothing we say will be edited incorrectly.

I hope I represented NZ's motorcycling community articulately. I talked about the poor safety record internationally, and that we would like to see them removed or have safety covers fitted to the base in the meantime as they have done in countries like france.

This was done at very short notice and rather quickly so we had little time to prepare. I was rather nervous but hopefully that doesn't come across on camera too much.

TV3 would be interested in covering a protest ride. The reporter would like a date as soon as possible as in the world of today's media once a story goes cold they are less likely to cover it. So guys & gals if we wanna do this let's get it organised.

The reporter also works for 60minutes and is approaching her producer about the possibility of covering a story about wire barriers. Let's make our voices heard folks.

Regards, Draco (Jen)

[Disco Dan]

AWSOME!!!!!!

Im free wednesday for a protest ride??!!! :banana::2thumbsup:2thumbsup

[raster]

I'll record it.

[_Gina_]

Well done Jen & Zapf!

Let's rark this unacceptable risk to motorcyclists up and use every possible avenue to highlight.

All I need for the protest ride is a time and place.

Gina

[skidMark]

time and place for protest ride...i'm there and i can drag along some mates....

[Quasievil]

Thats great I got a phone call from TV3 Simone Theron this am wanting to find out numbers of family members, I didnt know but gave her a couple more numbers to get her going, hope I dint offend anyone by that but I dont know the family to understand the situation, However I said to her I can get over 100 bikers blocking the motorway whenever she likes as a protest to cheesecutters, personlly I reckon thats the only way, a protest randomly until action is taken, its unacceptable that we as tax payers and road users are singly affected by such a inhumane crash barrier !
makes me mad actually............bikes are the solution arent they ?

Anyway, whatever happens Me and my little website www.sportsbike.co.nz (http://www.sportsbike.co.nz) is RIGHT behind any action

:2guns:

[Maha]

Either yourself Jen or Zapf should grab this oppotunity by the balls and do it!...(protest ride that is) im positive there will be a huge turnout...

[_Gina_]

...100 bikers blocking the motorway whenever she likes as a protest to cheesecutters, personlly I reckon thats the only way...



I concur.

Block the motorway with motorbikes, one would expect that all motorcyclists would attend considering the risk that cheese cutters pose to us all.

[Gremlin]

Could the protest ride wait until after the service for Dan?

Zapf and I have a lot to organise (along with a convoy of bikes for it) and don't have a date for that yet, so would be terrible for it to clash.

So glad that the momentum is building against them, but so terrible it took the loss of a life to get it. It will not be in vain.

[_Gina_]

Could the protest ride wait until after the service for Dan?


With respect, would it be okay to time it after Dan's service?

[0arbreaka]

Id be willing to take some time off work for the protest.

[xgnr]

Could the protest ride wait until after the service for Dan?

Zapf and I have a lot to organise (along with a convoy of bikes for it) and don't have a date for that yet, so would be terrible for it to clash.

So glad that the momentum is building against them, but so terrible it took the loss of a life to get it. It will not be in vain.

Indeed, time for mourning then a time for action to save this happening again.
Provides some time for reflection and rallying of any Bikers that want to get involved.

Is BRONZ involved ??

Cheers

Stu

[Quasievil]

I think its a powerful thing to do it after the actual funeral,

But Im wondering if we should consider it on a weekend as we will get more numbers, its about NUMBERS NUMBERS NUMBERS, get only less than 100 bikers it will look stupid,get 2000 and thats a EVENT and YES we can organise it !!
Dont rush, organise it properly, contact all the bike shops get flyers out, talk to bike clubs, it doesnt actually have to be disruptive to others to achieve a result (that can come later)

Im keen to organise the Hamilton Crew

Lets make Daniels death not be in vein but lets not rush, lets really make it a event to knock these pricks around a bit

[xgnr]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=59344

Hope I got it right this time

[MotoGirl]

Dont rush, organise it properly, contact all the bike shops get flyers out, talk to bike clubs, it doesnt actually have to be disruptive to others to achieve a result (that can come later)

Im keen to organise the Hamilton Crew

Bloody good idea Brett. I'll make dad aware of this and see if he's interested in rallying any of the Tauranga Ulybods.

Protest organiser: Please keep us updated with potential dates etc - weekends are most convenient. Cheers MG

[DMNTD]

Onya's...will definitely be there with all the bod's I can find :yes:

[Swoop]

Don't forget that you are able to phone TV3 to express your opinion on items that are screened.
If they feel that a news item has generated feedback, it might make a further investigation happen. 20/20 item perhaps?

[Draco]

I agree that our first priority is to respect Dan and his family/friends. This definately will not happen until after his funeral. I also agree that this needs to be done properly. We need NUMBERS! I also feel that if we make a nuisance of ourselves it will just piss the public off and we will lose support for the cause. We must keep it about the cause and get these barriers banned/removed or modified. Dan's family are also determined to get this campaign going.

I will be talking with Spank & other senior members to ensure we co-ordinate this well. If you are keen to help with organising then please put your name forward and one of us will be in touch in due course once it is decided who will be co-ordinating this.

Thanks to all of you who have indicated your support so far, we have our strength in numbers.

[skidMark]

just came up now...looks like 3rd story... watching to see ...this will be interesting.

[Dave-]

The reporter has done her best to represent the facts but has indicated that she is at the mercy of her producer. So fingers crossed nothing we say will be edited incorrectly.


lol

you've watched far too many Simpson's episodes where they show an interview with an analogue clock in the background changing as they edit the interview to portray their own juicy story.

it's actually an illegal act and so unprofessional

[deanohit]

Who else thinks it sick that the world cup coverage is on before a murder and the story about a young mans death? They need to get their fucken priorities right.

[DUCATI*HARD]

will be there to support this campaign,,,HARD,,,along with other bikers i know.

[Coyote]

The reporter has done her best to represent the facts but has indicated that she is at the mercy of her producer. So fingers crossed nothing we say will be edited incorrectly.

That angers me so much. That's why I'm so cynical towards the media, you can't trust much of what you here from them. For example, rugby world cup, do the french really care? I'm sure there's been plenty of world cups of abstract sports that are a big deal too some countries but I haven't heard anything about.

Watching TV3 news currently

[skidMark]

thankyou for that guys...and thanks tv3 for getting us heard.

[cowpoos]

well done jen and felix!! you guys did a great job!!

[chanceyy]

thought it was well done .. great job guys ... now a visable protest to lend weight behind everyone concerns will be a great follow up ..

[deanohit]

Great interveiw guys, got the point across great, just gotta keep the pressure on now.

[SpankMe]

Bloody brilliant Zapf and Draco. Did an awesome job of getting the point across. :niceone:

[xgnr]

Hi all,

Zapf & I have just been interviewed by TV3 for the news tonight regarding the recent death involving wire barriers. Zapf has been interviewed as a close friend of the deceased and his experiences in the aftermath of such a horrible accident. I was interviewed to express the opinion/concerns of motorcyclists regarding wire barriers.

The reporter has done her best to represent the facts but has indicated that she is at the mercy of her producer. So fingers crossed nothing we say will be edited incorrectly.

I hope I represented NZ's motorcycling community articulately. I talked about the poor safety record internationally, and that we would like to see them removed or have safety covers fitted to the base in the meantime as they have done in countries like france.

This was done at very short notice and rather quickly so we had little time to prepare. I was rather nervous but hopefully that doesn't come across on camera too much.

TV3 would be interested in covering a protest ride. The reporter would like a date as soon as possible as in the world of today's media once a story goes cold they are less likely to cover it. So guys & gals if we wanna do this let's get it organised.

The reporter also works for 60minutes and is approaching her producer about the possibility of covering a story about wire barriers. Let's make our voices heard folks.

Regards, Draco (Jen)

Just watched you guys on TV3... well done.

[Maha]

Thanks to all of you who have indicated your support so far, we have our strength in numbers.


Both you and Felix came across on TV awesome Jen...i will keep and eye on this thread as to when/where the protest ride will be....

[Coyote]

Cor, the chick with the R6 was a cutie

Waist down??!!? Holy fuck, I expected arms getting torn off by those barriers, I didn't expect anything as grusome (and morbidly awesome) as that

[skidMark]

bloodey old bugger from LTNZ though....

oh eweve proven these have been effective at stopping vehicles crossing over...

well yeah but so does concrete u fucking toss.....

i note he ddnt go onto the topic of what happens when a motorbiker fits it...there are solutions that will work for both bikes and cars....

the wires are lethal.

SM

[Kelem]

Very well done.

[Filterer]

This was done at very short notice and rather quickly so we had little time to prepare. I was rather nervous but hopefully that doesn't come across on camera too much.


Came across really well :niceone:

[skidMark]

Cor, the chick with the R6 was a cutie

Waist down??!!? Holy fuck, I expected arms getting torn off by those barriers, I didn't expect anything as grusome (and morbidly awesome) as that


that was draco lol reow ;)

[deanohit]

bloodey old bugger from LTNZ though....
oh eweve proven these have been effective at stopping vehicles crossing over...
well yeah but so does concrete u fucking toss.....
i note he ddnt go onto the topic of what happens when a motorbiker fits it...there are solutions that will work for both bikes and cars....
the wires are lethal.
SM

Too bloody right, I noticed the same thing. :blink:

[MotoGirl]

This was done at very short notice and rather quickly so we had little time to prepare. I was rather nervous but hopefully that doesn't come across on camera too much.

Good job there! I recognised that bike in the picture behind Felix too :2thumbsup

[Dave-]

I'm sorry for his death but I oppose your argument.

clearly I am out numbered.

so I'm not going to post my reasons, and like a proper minority, will just be quiet.

best of luck with your campaign.

[gijoe1313]

Points well made and excellent presentation of your views (and naturally the rest of us).

:no: to think it had to have an incident like this to have the issue raised with authorities to address concerns we already had with the wire barriers...

[skidMark]

Hi all,

Zapf & I have just been interviewed by TV3 for the news tonight regarding the recent death involving wire barriers. Zapf has been interviewed as a close friend of the deceased and his experiences in the aftermath of such a horrible accident. I was interviewed to express the opinion/concerns of motorcyclists regarding wire barriers.

The reporter has done her best to represent the facts but has indicated that she is at the mercy of her producer. So fingers crossed nothing we say will be edited incorrectly.

I hope I represented NZ's motorcycling community articulately. I talked about the poor safety record internationally, and that we would like to see them removed or have safety covers fitted to the base in the meantime as they have done in countries like france.

This was done at very short notice and rather quickly so we had little time to prepare. I was rather nervous but hopefully that doesn't come across on camera too much.

TV3 would be interested in covering a protest ride. The reporter would like a date as soon as possible as in the world of today's media once a story goes cold they are less likely to cover it. So guys & gals if we wanna do this let's get it organised.

The reporter also works for 60minutes and is approaching her producer about the possibility of covering a story about wire barriers. Let's make our voices heard folks.

Regards, Draco (Jen)



hmmm but whats a base safety cover going to do....it's the wires that would be a bigger problem than the post i would suspect.

[deanohit]

hmmm but whats a base safety cover going to do....it's the wires that would be a bigger problem than the post i would suspect.

Go and have a look in the other thread on wire barriers, there some good facts and articles in there.

[Coyote]

that was draco lol reow ;)
Tis the joke

Stand by my comment anyway

[devnull]

I agree with Mark... The TNZ guy came across as a complete tosser.
Doesn't seem to realise that it's more than just CARS that use roads...

Draco & Zapf put the point across really well - great job. You guys rocked!!!

[rainman]

I'm sorry for his death but I oppose your argument.

clearly I am out numbered.

so I'm not going to post my reasons, and like a proper minority, will just be quiet.

best of luck with your campaign.

Curious approach. Are you in disagreement with the dispute around the barriers in general (if so I would be keen to understand your point, and I suspect others would too), or is your disagreement related to this specific case (if so I may be able to guess why you would want to remain silent)?

Oh, and to Zapf and Draco - awesome job. Way better than I woulda done, and I've been media trained n'all :)

[MSTRS]

Arrived home too late to watch the interview...damn, sounds like you two did us proud as spokespersons for the vulnerable. :2thumbsup Well done. Does someone have a link to the online video?

[RiderInBlack]

Bloody brilliant Zapf and Draco. Did an awesome job of getting the point across. :niceone:
Ditto:not:

My thoughts are with ya Felix

[DEATH_INC.]

hmmm but whats a base safety cover going to do....it's the wires that would be a bigger problem than the post i would suspect.
Not according to all the studies I've read, it's actually the legs that do the damage...

[DEATH_INC.]

Cor, the chick with the R6 was a cutie

Yes, and yes I own a gun...:2guns:

[HungusMaximist]

Is Zapf the asian dude named 'David' ?

And I stand behind Coyote's comment on Draco, she looked fit...

But then again I got a bit of static on my aerial (like it always does) during that section and her face kept cutting into 2 sections... but you still looked nice ok?

[Draco]

Thanks for the positive feedback guys, it was a big responsibility to be speaking for such a large community. It was important to me to get the job right. Your feedback is important if this is to gather any momentum. That includes all views for or against.

I was very pleased with the sensitivity they showed towards zapf in his time of grieving for his friend. We made it very clear to the reporter that we did not want to say anything that may offend his family, and that our issue was about the barriers not the crash details. I feel she acted with great integrety and much was discussed that they respectfully did not air.

As for the transport guy????? Don't think I should to go there.......
Cheers to spank for throwing me in that one.... NOT!

[car]

This was done at very short notice and rather quickly so we had little time to prepare. I was rather nervous but hopefully that doesn't come across on camera too much.

On the contrary. You both came across as sane, sensible and extremely human. It's too easy for non-bikers to see lid and leathers and not think about the human inside. You did us proud, and under painful circumstances.

I thought the report was fairly effective. I would have liked to have heard the obvious response to old beardy's "these things have proven very effective at saving lives" -- i.e. "not at saving motorcyclists' lives" -- but at least they didn't start tarring us all with the speeding lunatics who deserve what they get brush.

But the point was made that they're killers, and that plenty of other countries are getting rid of them. Good stuff, well done to both of you.

[Racey Rider]

Someone could remind 'Cambell live' that we emailed them about this issue last time a *biker died in Wellington in these circumstances.

*if I remember correctly

[Skyryder]

Just watched you guys on TV3... well done.

Is this likely to be repeated? I watch One.

Skyryder

[marty]

I'm sorry for his death but I oppose your argument.

clearly I am out numbered.

so I'm not going to post my reasons, and like a proper minority, will just be quiet.

best of luck with your campaign.

this is the attitude that resulted in the barriers being put there in the first place.

[Draco]

Someone could remind 'Cambell live' that we emailed them about this issue last time a *biker died in Wellington in these circumstances.

*if I remember correctly

This is one of the questions the reporter asked us. We didn't have time unfortunately to research kb and confirm (we only had about an hour's notice of filming). She said she would like to know this type of information, especially if this goes further.

Keep this stuff coming guys, it's a big help.

[skidMark]

video here skyrider...

http://www.tv3.co.nz/VideoBrowseAll/NationalVideo/tabid/309/articleID/37392/Default.aspx#video

[Bullitt]

http://www.tv3.co.nz/VideoBrowseAll/NationalVideo/tabid/309/articleID/37392/Default.aspx#video

Seems like a decent report for once.

[raster]

You guys did a fantastic job, thankyou.

[cowpoos]

This is one of the questions the reporter asked us. We didn't have time unfortunately to research kb and confirm (we only had about an hour's notice of filming). She said she would like to know this type of information, especially if this goes further.

Keep this stuff coming guys, it's a big help.
and I noticed that theres a new membor on KB call stheron ??? maybe a good place to PM info on the wellington incident if it pans out...

[Riff Raff]

Well done Jen and Felix - I thought the report was very well done. Felix this must have been particularly hard for you - thankyou.

[MSTRS]

Thanks whoever for the video link. Well done Draco and Felix. Rational and empathic. Good work. As for the bearded dork - perhaps he could personally 'stand by' one of these barriers....enough said.

[Coyote]

Yes, and yes I own a gun...:2guns:
Don't think you'll find competing against a 17 year old a problem :lol: Besides, I'm taken anyway

[The Pastor]

very good job Jen and Felix, you guys came across like normal sane nz'ers. lets hope we get these cheese cutters removed.

[Chickadee]

Glad there was a follow up story - well done Jen and Felix.

The general public at large probably hear motorbike crash and think 'bikes are dangerous' or all sorts of other things.

These fences need to go or be modified, it's just not on saying they save lives - when they can maime and kill bikers.

Hope Dan gets a good send off and a decent number can be rallied for a protest ride after the funeral.

[Swoop]

Nicely presented guys! Difficult circumstances but you both did well!!!


As for the bearded dork - perhaps he could personally 'stand by' one of these barriers....enough said.
He gave me the impression of a man who fully enjoys his pocket protector and his pen collection. He was probably in the office today, sorting paperclips or something else useful to the taxpayer, when the media called.

[BarBender]

You spoke well Jen. Thanks
Lets hope something postive comes from all of this.

[mbazza]

Thanks for the work you did on this Felix. Both you and Jan came across as concerned riders who put our case across very well.
Thank you for your bravery in appearing and telling us about Daniel's death.
A very sad occassion for you and all Daniels's friends and family. My thoughts go with you this week. Regards.

[MacD]

Bloody brilliant Zapf and Draco. Did an awesome job of getting the point across. :niceone:

Well done guys.

[Nasty]

That was good work guys .. your points came accross really well ... and the transit NZ ones were shown to be weak .. as they did not indicate that it is cars that are better off not motorbike riders.

[one-speed]

Well done Jen & Zapf!

Let's rark this unacceptable risk to motorcyclists up and use every possible avenue to highlight.

All I need for the protest ride is a time and place.

Gina

yep time and place

[_Shrek_]

well done Zapf & Draco you got the point across well

as for the protest ride could we have one in the 4 main citys same time & day? (might get the point across loud & clear)

cheers Keith

[Maha]

as for the protest ride could we have one in the 4 main citys same time & day? (might get the point across loud & clear)

cheers Keith

Thats the very point i made earlier to my wife, TV3 seem to be onto it, its in their headlines leading into the News, strike while the irons hot ! so to speak..:cool:

[JMemonic]

Well done on the interview both of you, clear and concise.

[Mr Merde]

:(Put me down for any protest.

I have hated these bloody things ever since seeing my first on the M4 in the UK.

I'm watching this thread. So just post details and I'll be there.

Mr Merde

[trumpy]

Jen and Felix you made your points clearly and succintly under very difficult
circumstances.
Despite probably having my life saved by the fence when some idiot thought his formula one Nissen cornered on rails. It didn't. Thankfully the fence stopped his car reaching my side of the road.
However like many of the others I am willing to be part of any actions that will move our venerebal all knowing public service into action to find and install something more bike friendly....... they do after all work for us (or more correctly WE pay their wages).

[crshbndct]

my bike is down at the moment, but i can try organise acouple fo guys from here to join in.

i might bring my big bad v8 along and maybe follow at the tail wth an advertisement trailer with the slogan on it (i can get it from work, and just leave it white and stick letters on it.)

if that helps?

maybe something along the lines of "save lives not money - wire barriers must go"

[Toaster]

:(Put me down for any protest.

I have hated these bloody things ever since seeing my first on the M4 in the UK.

I'm watching this thread. So just post details and I'll be there.

Mr Merde

Have they still got them on the dual carriage highways over there? A-roads I think they called those roads if I recall correctly? Or have they been upgraded to concrete barriers?

[Headbanger]

Just watched the vid, Heavy stuff, Respect all round. Doubt I would have the strength to talk about it so soon if I were in that position.

The bearded git needs to look at the situation before jumping to the defense of a shitty fence.

[Sanx]

That bearded git needs to be thrown down the road, wearing the best leathers and armour money can buy, into one of those fences. Then, maybe we'll get some honest opinions from him.

Not so long ago, as a result of being bored at work, I wrote a letter to Harry Duynhoven, Minister for Transport Safety (i.e. Minister for blaming everything on speeding). In that letter, I mentioned the cheese-cutters and the danger they posed to motorcyclists. Maybe now would be a good time, in addition to doing something very public, to start writing letters to this Minister as well as your local MPs and the National party as well. Maybe BRONZ can help with the wording, but I can try to draft something up if necessary. I can also help with organisation, and a protest / petition website if needed.

Felix. What you said was very powerful. I'm not sure I'd have enough composure to do it so soon. Jen - good work, girl.

[terbang]

I've often looked at those things and had shivers down my back at the thought of a motrcyclist tangling with them. Bloody murderous if you ask me and yes we should have our say even if it is a protest. Someone or something needs to get their cost cutting attention. I'm up in Saudi at the moment and wont be back till towards end of NOV so will more than likely miss out. I feel that doing something like this would be better done earlier rather than later while the public are still thinking about it

[Sanx]

From http://mraa.org.au/forum/modules/issues/index.php?pagenum=7

The Dutch parliament, after lobbying from MAG NL (Motorcylist Action Group - The Netherlands), banned cable barriers on December 13th 2005.

January 2006 - MAG Belgium have been promoting the motorcycle friendly crash barriers. They managed to get a slot on Belgium TV promoting this issue and now the Belgium government is planning to fix some 10 kilometres of motorcycle friendly barriers per year.

On Friday 4th August 2006, the Norwegian Minister of Transport, Mrs. Liv Signe Navarsete, announced a ban on the use of cable barriers. She did so after years of lobbying by FEMA´s member organisation, the Norwegian Motorcycle Union (NMCU). “Finally, we see an end to the egg slicers”, said NMCU chairman Jan-Fredrik Moller.

Other links:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/concern-over-wire-rope-crash-barriers-sparks-eu-review-1138376.html
Irish viewpoint, including reporting of the EU decision to review technical guidelines for carsh barriers.
http://epubl.ltu.se/1402-1617/2005/233/
Study carried out by the Luleå Tekniska Universitet (Lulea Technical University - I think) in Sweden on the effect of the wire-rope barriers on motorcyclists. Download the PDF for the full report (in English).
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-01/esv/esv19/05-0095-O.pdf
A study carried out by DEKRA Accident Research for the German Federal Highway Research Institute (but hosted on the US National highways Transit Safety Authority website) on real-life motorcycle crashes into barriers of diferent types. Report concludes that more research is necessary, but that the wire-rope barriers present a significantly higher injury risk than concrete barriers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/F?thread=3341147
A progress report (dated August 2006) from the UK's MAG on efforts to ban use of wire-rope barriers. Contains a useful draft of a letter to send to various bottom-feeders in parliament (I'll post it up later).
http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page10977.asp
A response from the UK government to an online petition from the UK's MAG calling for all crash-barriers to be made motorycycle-friendly and for wire-rope barriers to be removed. Response, typically, says little and promises nothing. Petition attracted just 478 signatures.
http://www.roadsonline.com.au/article.php?id=460&issue=29&section=1
An article claiming Tasmania's foremost motorcycle body is actually calling for wire rope barriers to be installed. Article also quotes the results of research carried out at Monash University's Accident Research Centre (of which speed nazi, self-publicist and liar Prof. Ian Johnston is a research fellow) stating that wire-rope barriers are just as safe as other types.
http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/muarc210.pdf
Another report carried out by Monash University's Accident Research Centre, comissioned by Vic Roads, on why flexible (i.e. wire rope) barriers are a good idea. Specifically covers motorcycles, but cites a lack of available evidence in drawing a negative conclusion.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Great job zapf and draco pete and i will be in for any protest action that is decided on.

[nudemetalz]

I just watched the interview on the TV3 website.
Very well done and as been said here but I'll echo, very clear and precise.
As usual, Transit spokesperson said the cheesecutter were sucessful, blah blah.

[Firefight]

Thank you Jen and Felix, top effort, you both made your point in a clear and precise manner, I am proud that you represnted us .





Felix, not many would have been strong enuff to do what you did, Dan would have been proud of the way you spoke .

Jen, a professional, calm, and well balanced point of view delivered in a way that hopefully non bike riders may understand what we are talking about.

Respect to you both.


F/F


ps Jen, great choice of bike for the back ground of your interview.

[Mountlocal1]

Top effort guys. Im there just give me a time and place.

[Mountlocal1]

Anyone in Hams that wants to ride up to this PM me.

[Mr Merde]

Have they still got them on the dual carriage highways over there? A-roads I think they called those roads if I recall correctly? Or have they been upgraded to concrete barriers?

I havent been back for 4 years but I seem to remember them being replaced on the motorways. This was a few years before then as prior to leaving the UK I had been sick for about 3 years and physically unable to ride or even move.

As to the A roads, I couldnt say.

One of the UK based members may be able to help answer this question.


Merde

[janno]

I was devastated to hear of this young man's death last night on the news. The two people who spoke were very eloquent and composed, and put a very human and sane face to the "scary, mad bikers" idea that some members of the public have.

I'll travel up to Aucks or down to Wellington for a protest ride.

As regards to what form the protest should take, my thoughts are blocking the motorway will get a lot of people seriously pissed off, and not help the cause at all.

What about using the emergency lanes on the side of the motorway as a parking spot for half an hour, if possible near some cheesecutters, making sure to pick the appropriate time and place for maximum safety during the day.

If everybody rode as a group and pulled over as a group there would not be much anyone could do about it.

You will have to make damned sure that it's a place where people can safely stop and gather without being hit by 110kph traffic though.

That way cars will see us and wonder what we were up to, (hold a few banners perhaps - "wire barriers maim and kill!" - and recognise what we were trying to say when they watch the news that night, without being held up and got seriously offside for our cause.

Or the usual slow ride up Queen st en masse or past parliament. We'll need some serious numbers for that one to make it effective.

I hope this will not be yet another issue that everyone complains about but is busy on the day . . .

[Deano]

I'm keen to be part of a Welly protest.

[BMW]

Who else thinks it sick that the world cup coverage is on before a murder and the story about a young mans death? They need to get their fucken priorities right.

I do also think that

But we all need to do something. get hold of the radio stations as well as they will bring this all attention. Also there is a bike rally on this weekend in Rotorua..

So I can do it this week in AK but am away this weekend.

[Scouse]

As regards to what form the protest should take, my thoughts are blocking the motorway will get a lot of people seriously pissed off, and not help the cause at all.

What about using the emergency lanes on the side of the motorway as a parking spot for half an hour, if possible near some cheesecutters, making sure to pick the appropriate time and place for maximum safety during the day.

If everybody rode as a group and pulled over as a group there would not be much anyone could do about it.

You will have to make damned sure that it's a place where people can safely stop and gather without being hit by 110kph traffic though.

Nice Idea Janno but Motorways are a very dangerous place to stop on even if it is on the emergency lane I personaly would not do this I would rather ride with hopfully 2,000 other bikers say from Bombay Hills to Queen street on mass.
By the way Jen and felix you both did us proud good skills guys.

[MSTRS]

I'm not sure that a protest stop on the side of the motorway is a good idea. Highly visible but only to the motorists passing that spot at the time. Not to mention how dangerous it could be to bikes and riders....
A campaign on multiple fronts would be good tho. Queen St/Parliament/Media. Perhaps some here with 'contacts' could convince a wealthy person or organisation to fund full page ads in all the dailies, with suitable imagery for full effect.
Failing that....plasma cutters, anyone??

[Mountlocal1]

I'm not sure that a protest stop on the side of the motorway is a good idea. Highly visible but only to the motorists passing that spot at the time. Not to mention how dangerous it could be to bikes and riders....
A campaign on multiple fronts would be good tho. Queen St/Parliament/Media. Perhaps some here with 'contacts' could convince a wealthy person or organisation to fund full page ads in all the dailies, with suitable imagery for full effect.
Failing that....plasma cutters, anyone??

Prehaps at some stage in the future we should set up an account for donations to help this cause if its needed? To pay for flyers or newspaper adds etc.

[Shadows]

That bearded git needs to be thrown down the road, wearing the best leathers and armour money can buy, into one of those fences. Then, maybe we'll get some honest opinions from him.


The fundamental error in that is that it is very hard to get an opinion from a dead man.

[Paul in NZ]

Bloody brilliant Zapf and Draco. Did an awesome job of getting the point across. :niceone:

Agree'd - totally awesome job - very impressive and under such difficult circumstances as well. You did a good job!

[rainman]

Just seen this article (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10471320) on the Herald's site. Complete with links to these threads, under "Related Web links" at the bottom.

[paturoa]

But Transit's national operations manager, Dave Bates, denied there was much difference in cost between wire and steel barriers and said the main reason for using wire was its greater effectiveness in protecting most road users.

He could recall no previous deaths of motorcyclists hitting wire barriers and did not believe they would have much more of a chance against traditional W-section steel guard-rails.

Asked whether Transit might now review plans to extend the barriers, Mr Bates said it investigated every fatal crash on its network "to see whether there is in fact anything we can do".

He may have a point about the "W" barriers. I have seen several that go right to ground level with 2 layers of the W stuff.

How has the concrete barrier option dropped out of that?

I've had a look and can't find any cost comparisons between Wire, single row W, double row W and concrete. Would be good to get that in one place.

[Riff Raff]

Just seen this article (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10471320) on the Herald's site. Complete with links to these threads, under "Related Web links" at the bottom.
There's also a link there where they're asking for Your Views on whether Cheesecutters should be banned. I suggest we all reply.

[Disco Dan]

There's also a link there where they're asking for Your Views on whether Cheesecutters should be banned. I suggest we all reply.

Awsome RR, looks like people are starting to hear.

We need to organise this protest pretty quickly - while the media is still hot on the subject.

What about after Daniel's funeral on thursday????

[Skunk]

There's also a link there where they're asking for Your Views on whether Cheesecutters should be banned. I suggest we all reply.
Done. Good article in the Herald too.


But Transit's national operations manager, Dave Bates, denied there was much difference in cost between wire and steel barriers and said the main reason for using wire was its greater effectiveness in protecting most road users.

He could recall no previous deaths of motorcyclists hitting wire barriers and did not believe they would have much more of a chance against traditional W-section steel guard-rails.

Huh!?

[Daffyd]

There's also a link there where they're asking for Your Views on whether Cheesecutters should be banned. I suggest we all reply.

Could somebody post this link?
Don't worry...found it.

[cowpoos]

old lou featuring in the article huh!!! lmao!! was a well writen article I thought... I wonder who tipped the hearld off :whistle:

[Brett]

Count me in for the protect 120%. Part of the public still hold the attitude that it was speed that killed and that if you obey the limit everything will be fine. We need to educate them on that. If a cage knocked a rider off at 60kph into those things they would be badly damaged. Public need to realise that there is more to the issue than a rider speeding that causes crashes. Some still dont get this.
Whatever we do needs to be highly organised (I will put my hand up to help with anything required) and needs to clearly and effectively communicate our stance and issues on this matter.
Perhaps to help fund our campaign we could do a KB collection fund. $10 each would be a good start and go quite a long way.

That twat from transit needs to go stick his head back under the sand, he has no fricken clue.

[janno]

I'm coming down to Wgtn from New Plymouth this weekend for the KB bash - would Saturday be too soon or difficult to organise some sort of protest ride?

But my thoughts are that it would be better to wait a week or three in order to organise maximum numbers rather than rush in and not get the backing from riders.

If enough riders come along, it will override the fact that it may be a few weeks after this latest death.

[cowpoos]

old lou featuring in the article huh!!! lmao!! was a well writen article I thought... I wonder who tipped the hearld off :whistle:
on a side note...in that article the transit spokesman said that hitting a W section steel rail the out come would be much the same...thats bullshit...I hit one of those at about 130-140 back first...and I walked away!! a couple of cracked ribs and small flesh wond in my shoulder and a dent in my ego!! ain't no way in hell would I have walked away from a wire rope barrier,barring devine intervention!!

[deanohit]

There's also a link there where they're asking for Your Views on whether Cheesecutters should be banned. I suggest we all reply.

Done, can some one post a link to where you can read the submissions?

[janno]

Done, can some one post a link to where you can read the submissions?

Yes, have written in as well. I suspect there are no submissions to be read yet because they are still getting checked by mods before publication. I couldn't find any, anyway.

[bugjuice]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10471320

the Herald page also has links back to KB
we might have a voice now

[Riff Raff]

Done, can some one post a link to where you can read the submissions?


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/feature/story.cfm?c_id=1501154&objectid=10471342


Good to see so many replies.

[RiderInBlack]

Veteran Auckland motorcyclist Lou Girardin, a former Ministry of Transport patrolman, said he did not believe the wire barriers were acceptable anywhere and suspected Transit was driven by cost considerations. "If you set out to design something to mutilate the human body, you couldn't do any better.

"It's not a matter of speed - if you're tipped off [a motorcycle] by a driver changing lanes you are dead or at the very least your limbs will be severed. These things are just horrendously dangerous."
(http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10471320)

Totally Awesome:not:

Just a stray thought here re: protest ride. A number of us have "Track-day Bike" vans, and there is bound to be the odd truckie among us. Why not have those trailing the protest rides (if we go ahead with the protest) to provide "safety" for the riders ahead? Would be happy to bring my Hiace LW work van to help with this ("Roxanne" can come along in the back of it, "she'd" love ta be there too).

[Quasievil]

Forums been closed for comments so cant post anymore on Herald site.

[deanohit]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/feature/story.cfm?c_id=1501154&objectid=10471342


Good to see so many replies.

Thanks for that Riff Raff.:niceone:

[Joni]

Im happy to see that this website is contributing towards a call for change! You guys make me proud!

[skidMark]

my views have been submitted under Mark...from auckland....

[deanohit]

my views have been submitted under Mark...from auckland....
Why not under 'Skidmark'? :bleh:



I'm under 'Motorbike rider (Tauranga)'.

[MSTRS]

Forums been closed for comments so cant post anymore on Herald site.

Still works for me. (I don't think hXc will mind me putting 'his' views out there)

[Macktheknife]

Great work there guys, well done.
Felix, kia kaha, my deepest sympathy and respect to you.

[Sanx]

Works for me too, though the link takes some finding.

One of the points raised by the speed nazis in comments is the high speed involved in the accident. True - hitting any barrier at 150km/h is likely to cause death. However, he didn't hit the barrier head-on. Assuming (and it's a big assumption) he hit at around twenty degrees, the velocity at which he would have encountered the barrier (measured perpendicular to the barrier) would be a shade over 50km/h. That's equivalent to a fall from 9.6m, where as a 150 kph impact is equivalent to a fall from 101m. And this calculation doesn't take into effect any deceleration from the friction of leather against tarmac.

A concrete barrier provides a smooth solid surface to bounce off. The cheesecutter barrier legs and thin steel. This is what causes the damage, not the cables. The legs trap limbs (or bikes) and fling the body round. This severs or shatters limbs beyond repair.

[Sanx]

The fundamental error in that is that it is very hard to get an opinion from a dead man.

That was precisely my point.

[mynameis]

Great work there Felix and Jen, thanks a lot.

Do keep us updated and I am putting my hand up as well, in helping out in any tasks relating to any form of protest that will be organised.

For those who aren't aware of the links in the media:

Dan Media

http://tv3.co.nz/VideoBrowseAll/ExtendedVideo/tabid/315/articleID/37320/Default.aspx#video

http://tv3.co.nz/VideoBrowseAll/NationalVideo/tabid/309/articleID/37392/Default.aspx?articleID=37392#video

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10471320

[ZeroIndex]

time and place for protest ride...i'm there and i can drag along some mates....
Do the Police reinstate your license for important protest rides?

[MSTRS]

No. Can't see them doing licence checks tho.

[Scouse]

No. Can't see them doing licence checks tho.Yup your right there you just become a face in the crowd

[Brett]

this is perhaps the only time i would say bugger the lack of licence and ride. We need numbers behind our voice big time!

[Swoop]

What did TV1 broadcast on this incident?

[RiderInBlack]

Please keep license comments away from here. Distracts from the whole look of the protest. You can bet we are being watched closely at the moment. We can not afford to encourage the view some have of Bikers being "Lawless".

[Skyryder]

Please keep license comments away from here. Distracts from the whole look of the protest. You can bet we are being watched closely at the moment. We can not afford to encourage the view some have of Bikers being "Lawless".

Yep good point RiB. All they need to do is a licence check en mass and you can guess the Headline.............it won't be about the protest or cheesecutters.

If you don't have a licence go pillion.

Skyryder

[RiderInBlack]

Have posted my view on Heralds "Your views: Should 'cheese-cutter' barriers be banned?", but have not seen them on that site yet. Are they just slow, or are they limiting the comments:nono: (promise I was being good, honest).

[Draco]

Hi All,
WOW! This is mind blowing! I wanted to take a moment to update you all as I am being inundated with PM's and I know you are all so keen to get behind this and quick.

Several senior kb members will be meeting shortly to decide on a plan of action. EVERY suggestion made by members has been read and will be carefully considered, your voices count guys.

I am concerned about the possibility of kbers getting carried away about the protest and losing sight of the ultimate goal of Dan's family and us bikers, that of getting cheese cutters banned/fixed.

To acheive this goal will take more than just a protest. We need to be looking at a petition and co-ordinated and constant "hounding" of the appropriate authorities to acheive our goal.

So please bear with us for a day or two while an action plan is established. A date for the protest ride will be set ASAP and members will be informed the second we have it. We do however want to get this right and believe taking a little extra time will be worth it in the end.

We have great interest from more than one media source and feel we will get the coverage we desire, so please don't panic about it.

In the meantime, keep collecting that data. Knowledge is power, and essential if we are to continue this fight with the respect of the public and the authorities involved. Keep responding to the questionaires, and keep those emails going to ministers etc. You guys are doing an awesome job of getting us heard. It's great to see everyone taking such affirmative action. Instead of sitting at your computers bleeting, your out there taking action and helping one another make a difference.

Watch this space for the protest details. Coming as fast as we can.
Regards, Jen

[MSTRS]

According to TV3 News, police estimate this young man was traveling at 150KPH. The death is a tragedy for the victim and his family. But I'm fed up with motorcyclists who think they can operate outside the law. To those who are now grumbling about the safety of median barriers - how about focusing on your own safety and the cars around you. How about sticking to the speed limit. How about showing some responsibility instead of demanding that motorways be turned into drag strips. I'm quite happy with the present arrangement. If motorcyclists don't like the wire barrier, slow down or speed somewhere else. This person had better never identify themselves. Education awaits.

[Draco]

Hi All,

Please please please please pleeeease be careful what you say on here. I have received calls from the media with regards to speed involved in the accident and the potential disruptive action planned by us during protests. Specific comments from kb were quoted to me by the media.

I have assured the media any action taken will be well planned and will not in any way be dangerous, illegal or overly disruptive to the public.

We are in constant danger of losing the respect we need to pull this off. Please think before posting folks, as even the most innocent of comments can be used to paint us as hoodlums with our own set of rules and our own agenda. Believe you me these threads are being watched!

[R6_kid]

Contributors to the Kiwibiker internet forum accused Transit of considering only cars and trucks when installing the barriers and ignoring "an unacceptable risk to motorcyclists", a claim denied by the highways agency.

but


Transit's national operations manager, Dave Bates, denied there was much difference in cost between wire and steel barriers and said the main reason for using wire was its greater effectiveness in protecting most road users

Then who are 'the rest'? Do they not matter? And why are they not using the solution that has a greater effectiveness for ALL road users.

[RiderInBlack]

Believe you me these threads are being watched!Aye. Thanks for all ya trying ta do.

[Unit]

Have only just picked up on this thread and I havent had a chance to ready every post, but my thoughts regardless.
I think a well organised protest ride is a great idea and I would make every effort to attend and support the cause.
I would like to think that everyone who attends are people that should be there, and are genuine motorcyclists who constantly promote safe riding and care about their fellow bikers.
As tax payers, we pay a much higher premium in our rego's for RUC and ACC. That being the case, we have a right to protest against such a lethal piece of equipment being used.
I travel from Tauranga to Whangarei about every three weeks. There is a strip of these 'cheese-cutter' barriers on the way (Im sure those that do the coro loop know which one Im talking about). Every time I travel through there (often at night), it sincerely gives me the shudders. Yes its a straight bit of road, yes there are double lanes either side, but what I often notice is this gives cause for most motorist to speed up, not slow down, and that concerns me. There cars may nicely bounce off them, but if I get caught up in the moment of testosterone, I know I will be the one that comes off worst as an innocent motorist yet I might get the blame being the motorcyclist?
Dont know and only an opinion. As I do over some 20,000kms each year, I feel I am entitled to a voice, or show up as part of a contingent of riders who what to be heard.
This is a most serious matter, and not to loose sight of the most unfortunate event that brought these threads on.
Thank you to all those people working so hard to have our voice heard in the correct way it should be.

[Morcs]

Ditto to most of the thoughts being voiced here.

Another few of perspective:

Cyclists do not pay anything tax wise - they may 'save the environment' and cut down on traffic (ie. nothing beneficial to the government) but they get cycle lanes, and all sorts of facilities for them with their safety in mind.

On the other hand in comparison, we pay tax through fuel (less than cars) but more acc levies through regos.

So I think we do have a right - to demand (not just request) such safety measures. Its hardly going to be costly in comparision to covering auckland in cyclelanes.

Just my 0.02 from outside the box...

[Lteejay]

Count me in for an organised ride as long as it is not disruptive - I agree that we dont want to piss people off as we will get nowhere. We have to put our communities ideas across in a productive way. Good one Jen - nice interview. Lets hope we can change some minds and not have to go through this again.

RIP Back fire. Thoughts with his family.

[MSTRS]

Count me in for an organised ride as long as it is not disruptive - I agree that we dont want to piss people off as we will get nowhere. We have to put our communities ideas across in a productive way.


Yes, a non-disruptive organised ride is a start of visible protest. Should there be no shift in Tranzit's 'attitude' then become more disruptive. Increasingly so. It is all about being taken seriously.

[Pixie]

He may have a point about the "W" barriers. I have seen several that go right to ground level with 2 layers of the W stuff.

How has the concrete barrier option dropped out of that?

I've had a look and can't find any cost comparisons between Wire, single row W, double row W and concrete. Would be good to get that in one place.

There is also another type of barrier,as used on the Mangere bridge / S.H. 20.
It consists of continuous sheet metal box sections,approximately the dimensions of the normal concrete barriers and filled with ballast (fine scoria )

[u4ea]

Pressumably "anonymous" is always checking mirrors before pulling out in front of motorcyclists and using the right hand rule and feels nice and safe in their cage with seat belts and airbags while they say" I never saw you".They probably have no knowledge of the time and money which is poured into fine machinery to keep them as mechanically safe as possible.Probaby doesn't know the research which goes into the best protective riding gear a person can wear.Pressumably like me they never met Daniel but yet put him in a category of menace on our roads.A freind,a brother,nefew,cousin,grandson and son.





R.I.P Daniel

[_Shrek_]

Pressumably "anonymous" is always checking mirrors before pulling out in front of motorcyclists and using the right hand rule and feels nice and safe in their cage with seat belts and airbags while they say" I never saw you".They probably have no knowledge of the time and money which is poured into fine machinery to keep them as mechanically safe as possible.Probaby doesn't know the research which goes into the best protective riding gear a person can wear.Pressumably like me they never met Daniel but yet put him in a category of menace on our roads.A freind,a brother,nefew,cousin,grandson and son.

R.I.P Daniel

:weep:


he is most likley the :tugger: who designed the cheese cutters :mad: :spanking:

[xgnr]

What about the Health and Safety in employment issues regarding the Police Bikers?

What have the cops done in regard to mitigating the risk to their staff that ride bikes?

Have they identified these as a serious risk to staff and if not why not?

Just a thought:sherlock:

[Brett]

What about the Health and Safety in employment issues regarding the Police Bikers?

What have the cops done in regard to mitigating the risk to their staff that ride bikes?

Have they identified these as a serious risk to staff and if not why not?

Just a thought:sherlock:

A very interesting thought. Biker cops care to comment??

[Draco]

Okay people, as promised the meeting of senior kb members to start plans in motion has just concluded. The site will be updated tomorrow. Media, motorcycling organisations, MP's & relevant authorities are all being contacted to ensure this does not lose momentum. First details will be released in the morning and will be followed up over the next few days as proposed plans are confirmed, so keep watching. Requests for assistance with specific issues will be posted on the site and PM'd to relevant members with the skills/contacts required. There will be something everyone can do too. As said before keep emailing those MP's etc to keep the pressure on.

[GTVTR]

First ... may I say I didn't know Dan, but do offer my sympathies to his family and friends.

As one of the middle aged, born again (fair weather) riders I have always looked at the wire barriers with fear. I have always been furious that the government can sanction the use of these devices and yet legislate against so many other things that 'may' cause injury in the private sector. We now all pay more ACC levy on our registration to cover injury costs which are more for motorcyclists. Is it just me that sees the irony here ?

At close to 50 I'd have to say that I have NEVER been in a protest in my life (and have never contributed to a blog !) ... but would be proud to join any protest aimed at getting these death traps removed from New Zealand roads.

[WelshWizard]

First ... may I say I didn't know Dan, but do offer my sympathies to his family and friends.

As one of the middle aged, born again (fair weather) riders I have always looked at the wire barriers with fear. I have always been furious that the government can sanction the use of these devices and yet legislate against so many other things that 'may' cause injury in the private sector. We now all pay more ACC levy on our registration to cover injury costs which are more for motorcyclists. Is it just me that sees the irony here ?

At close to 50 I'd have to say that I have NEVER been in a protest in my life (and have never contributed to a blog !) ... but would be proud to join any protest aimed at getting these death traps removed from New Zealand roads.

First thanks for your thoughts of symphathy for my lad Dan.

Second its a very good point you make about the ACC levy , as motorcyclist we pay a very heavy levy compared to Car user.

Third closer to Summer I am sure we will have another protest ride about these WRBs, perhaps Draco, Mom and co would consider a run closer to October 20th as a lot of people will remember Dan was killed on that day, and maybe by then I will be in a position to issue information about the crash that has not been made public, but will prove that what happened to Dan can happen to any rider even if the they are travelling at 70kph,

[MDR2]

Perhaps we could try and get ACC behind the cause? Though, being government (owned) they have to remain impartial to these kinds of things... but safety is at risk so maybe they could have a stance on it. If not anything else but to say, 'we agree with these guys, the cables are a risk.'

[James Deuce]

The Gubbmint mouthpiece at Transit continues to posit the theory that there is no proof that wire rope barriers are any more dangerous to a motorcyclist than a concrete one, despite a recent death in Australia where a motorcyclist was knocked off by someone being stupid and died when he struck the WRB. There is a significant enough body of evidence for several European and Scandinavian countries to place a moratorium on their installation and to make the barriers safer by enclosing them in recycled plastic covers.

I've struck concrete barriers twice and am still here. Dan isn't. From my perspective it's case closed, but the Gubbmint continues to insist that individual lives aren't important.