sportsbikes-useable?

[carver]

a few of the mormon few were talking about how we smoke so many sports bikes in the twisties..
is it true that to use 80 % of a sportsbikes cornering potential is relatively easy, but to use the last 20% is quite hard, and requires real dedication, so most sports bike rides use the point and squirt approach....
i did on my CBR 600!
i find i can take a naked bike to 90-95% with ease, so does that make a naked bike faster around a tight road?

[tri boy]

The tighter the road, the more challenging it is to stay "on the edge" on the sports bike. Thats why supermotards are such a booming market.
My XR500 could leave Ducatis behind on the Kuranda Range nth of Cairns, and the Atherton Tablelands. Think of a really tight Parapara type of road and thats wear Sportbikes start to lose out. Lightness rules.:cool:

[carver]

The tighter the road, the more challenging it is to stay "on the edge" on the sports bike. Thats why supermotards are such a booming market.
My XR500 could leave Ducatis behind on the Kuranda Range nth of Cairns, and the Atherton Tablelands. Think of a really tight Parapara type of road and thats wear Sportbikes start to lose out. Lightness rules.:cool:

allright!
your dead on i think...

[DMNTD]

...I find i can take a naked bike to 90-95% with ease, so does that make a naked bike faster around a tight road?

Easy quick answer is YES.

[madbikeboy]

Naked bikes are fun for the twisties, but just hard work on long rides and at less than legal speeds. I went past a fool on a crusier yesterday while in the cage, he had an open face and couldn't ride past 90 klicks without his face distorting. Looked like he was wishing he was somewhere else. Sitting with my chin on the tank, throttle pinned, with a violent maelstrom of wind rushing over the top - second best feeling in the world.

[DMNTD]

Sitting with my chin on the tank, throttle pinned, with a violent maelstrom of wind rushing over the top - second best feeling in the world.

3rd or 4th best maybe.
But personally cleaning up a set of corners whilst those with their chins on their tanks are trying to catch up does it for me :sunny:

[TLMAN]

It all comes down to the individual rider and how much experience he/she has on a particular bike.

[White trash]

On most roads that are sealed I'd put my K7 against any naked bike.

Round a Count Down car park I'd put my minimoto (sportsbike) up against any bike :D

[cowpoos]

a few of the mormon few were talking about how we smoke so many sports bikes in the twisties..
is it true that to use 80 % of a sportsbikes cornering potential is relatively easy, but to use the last 20% is quite hard, and requires real dedication, so most sports bike rides use the point and squirt approach....
i did on my CBR 600!
i find i can take a naked bike to 90-95% with ease, so does that make a naked bike faster around a tight road?
nah!! get me a road legal sports bike and we'll do any twist road of your choice!

Its more about a riders ability to mentally break through their riding barriers...a sportsbike in tight twisties requires a fair bit of precise physical input...the leverage on the bars needs to be very firm and precise...high speeds limit alot of peoples ability to mentally take in the surroundings,things are percived to be much faster than reality as your brain rushes to translate all the info into something that makes sence..often over whelming the rider that pushes beyound their abilities...and small mistake occurs...hello ditch etc!! and all the while there will be a faster more skilled rider that will easily make the said rider look slower and unskilled...naked bikes are genrally more up right with better leverage on the bars...and they are a more natural machine to ride...the height at which your head sits is higher...so your vanising point is genrally further down the road than the dude on the sportsbike...and there is alot of comfort in that,as you can judge your line and speed correcting sooner and there for safer...the sportbike rider who is lower...will not see the vanising point as far away...and would to a degree be possibly traveling quicker...creating a overwhelming situation for their senses to deal with...often and hopefully with them backing off and not to tempt fate...I personally believe the smoother quicker riders that make things look so effortless...have the ability to process only relivant information...has a focused mind on all vanishing points...moving eyes and brain to the next one as they appear...and the riding is reactive of whats seen rather than pro-active...alot of people say you have to go slow at times to learn to go fast...and its very true...the brain adjusts...and the more we practise positive techniques the more a brain learns them in a instictive way...so if your not practising or trying to improve your riding evertime you go out for a ride...you probally won't get better...just more rehershed and instictive at your current level.

[carver]

nah!! get me a road legal sports bike and we'll do any twist road of your choice!

Its more about a riders ability to mentally break through their riding barriers...a sportsbike in tight twisties requires a fair bit of precise physical input...the leverage on the bars needs to be very firm and precise...high speeds limit alot of peoples ability to mentally take in the surroundings,things are percived to be much faster than reality as your brain rushes to translate all the info into something that makes sence..often over whelming the rider that pushes beyound their abilities...and small mistake occurs...hello ditch etc!! and all the while there will be a faster more skilled rider that will easily make the said rider look slower and unskilled...naked bikes are genrally more up right with better leverage on the bars...and they are a more natural machine to ride...the height at which your head sits is higher...so your vanising point is genrally further down the road than the dude on the sportsbike...and there is alot of comfort in that,as you can judge your line and speed correcting sooner and there for safer...the sportbike rider who is lower...will not see the vanising point as far away...and would to a degree be possibly traveling quicker...creating a overwhelming situation for their senses to deal with...often and hopefully with them backing off and not to tempt fate...I personally believe the smoother quicker riders that make things look so effortless...have the ability to process only relivant information...has a focused mind on all vanishing points...moving eyes and brain to the next one as they appear...and the riding is reactive of whats seen rather than pro-active...alot of people say you have to go slow at times to learn to go fast...and its very true...the brain adjusts...and the more we practise positive techniques the more a brain learns them in a instictive way...so if your not practising or trying to improve your riding evertime you go out for a ride...you probally won't get better...just more rehershed and instictive at your current level.

im with you on that...

[FROSTY]

I think one reason a naked or motard type bike is easier to punt around the tight stuff is the same reason the high barred buckets are easier to ride-leverage on the bars and upright riding position

[Ixion]

It is not a matter of naked versus 'sports'. It is a question of size , power and weight. Other things being equal, a small light bike will be faster through a corner than a bigger heavier one. It is a matter of physics. And as a given corner has a maximum speed, which will almost always be much less than the top speed of either bike, the only factor remaining is how fast the bike can power out of the corner.If comparing, say a 650 twin with a 1000 four , the extra exit speed of the four may not be enough, if the straights are short enough, to compensate for the faster speed of the smaller lighter bike through the corner. And on a poor surface the need for precise throttle control on the power engine may be an impediment.

But something like an RGV250 would be faster than either of them.

Until the straights get longer. And the 1000 blasts past.

[Scouse]

a few of the mormon few were talking about how we smoke so many sports bikes in the twisties..
is it true that to use 80 % of a sportsbikes cornering potential is relatively easy, but to use the last 20% is quite hard, and requires real dedication, so most sports bike rides use the point and squirt approach....
i did on my CBR 600!
i find i can take a naked bike to 90-95% with ease, so does that make a naked bike faster around a tight road?Nah you and your mate on the 250 are just freeks please dont get a sportsbike

[Scouse]

It is not a matter of naked versus 'sports'. It is a question of size , power and weight. Other things being equal, a small light bike will be faster through a corner than a bigger heavier one. It is a matter of physics. And as a given corner has a maximum speed, which will almost always be much less than the top speed of either bike, the only factor remaining is how fast the bike can power out of the corner.If comparing, say a 650 twin with a 1000 four , the extra exit speed of the four may not be enough, if the straights are short enough, to compensate for the faster speed of the smaller lighter bike through the corner. And on a poor surface the need for precise throttle control on the power engine may be an impediment.

But something like an RGV250 would be faster than either of them.

Until the straights get longer. And the 1000 blasts past.Ixon these two boys just ride with the throtle stuck in the open position and dont button off unlest there is an intersection ahead

[carver]

Ixon these two boys just ride with the throtle stuck in the open position and dont button off unlest there is an intersection ahead


Nah you and your mate on the 250 are just freeks please dont get a sportsbike

harden up man...my last bike was a CBR 600..i button off heaps, but i dial it on even more...
we both just ride at our own pace-and we ride alot...the mormon few dont really care if other want to ride faster or slower.
it was fun riding with ya though

[Pancakes]

I've got some Renthal SM bars on the Hyo now and while it's still heavy (and feels it) I've taken it good and low thu some low speed corners (the right heading down the hill at the Albany end on the Coatsville H'Way and the right afetr the rollercoaster bit on Old Nth Rd) I haven't taken any of my favourate lefts yet but I'm better at lefts than rights. I think the leverage gives nice feedback and more precise input. I feel like I'm turning less and countersteering more too.

EDIT, added pics of the bars now I found the camera my wife seems to like losing

[carver]

I've got some Renthal SM bars on the Hyo now and while it's still heavy (and feels it) I've taken it good and low thu some low speed corners (the right heading down the hill at the Albany end on the Coatsville H'Way and the right afetr the rollercoaster bit on Old Nth Rd) I haven't taken any of my favourate lefts yet cos I used to be better at lefts than rights. I think the leverage gives nice feedback and more precise input. I feel like I'm turning less and countersteering more too.

ah..yours is the yellow hyo aye?

[Supermoto Junkie]

Since moving to the dark side and joining the supermoto troop, i have ridden twistie alot quicker, I think the riding position of a Moto or naked bike gives you confidence in the tight stuff, also i think the old brain is reasonably comfortable with the fact is I do go down the cost of repair of a Motard is going to be a lot less.

Jujst my $0.02 worth

[Pancakes]

ah..yours is the yellow hyo aye?

Yeah man, but the gold bars don't look gay cos it's the same colour as the forks.

[jade]

this reminds me of an article in superbike once,
Is the aprilia rs250 the best road bike ever ?
imo and reading your guys perceptions of speed I think that in NZ it is

[Pancakes]

...imo and reading your guys perceptions of speed I think that in NZ it is

I'm not about speed cos my bike can't really! I love getting those nasty corners with the 15kmph warning signs that double back on themselves in what feels like a 20 meter radius dialled and then thinking how much further down the Moto GP guys are.

[carver]

this reminds me of an article in superbike once,
Is the aprilia rs250 the best road bike ever ?
imo and reading your guys perceptions of speed I think that in NZ it is

hmmm..horses for courses eh...

[boomer]

I'm not about speed cos my bike can't really! I love getting those nasty corners with the 15kmph warning signs that double back on themselves in what feels like a 20 meter radius dialled and then thinking how much further down the Moto GP guys are.

then you wake up and have ya cornflakes...remembering that in reality you own a hyobag and can't corner for shit?

[Pancakes]

then you wake up and have ya cornflakes...remembering that in reality you own a hyobag and can't corner for shit?

The bikes got more in it than I have, which is the same for most people I recon. Not many people are being held back my their machine, it's the thing on top that does the riding. I just like being in full control and going that bit further each time, keeps me happy. Good on you your a good rider and have a sweet bike or two, I can climb things you couldn't see a route on and would give you $50 if you could keep me in sight on ski's or a snowboard.

[boomer]

The bikes got more in it than I have, which is the same for most people I recon. Not many people are being held back my their machine, it's the thing on top that does the riding. I just like being in full control and going that bit further each time, keeps me happy. Good on you your a good rider and have a sweet bike or two, I can climb things you couldn't see a route on and would give you $50 if you could keep me in sight on ski's or a snowboard.

i'll take that bet on a snowboard and/or a wake board..?? I can do better backwards somersaults on a board than dover can do on his bike :niceone:

i was only joking .. a bikes a bike and your love and joy is loved as much as anyone else's

[DEATH_INC.]

then you wake up and have ya cornflakes...remembering that in reality you own a hyobag and can't corner for shit?

Good on you your a good rider and have a sweet bike or two,
:laugh::laugh::laugh: bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaha!

[tri boy]

Cowpoo's post was about as complete as I could imagine.
I always felt more in control on the XR500/KLX650, and a smattering of other big chook chasers.
The visibility and upright style gave a heap of confidence heading into, through, and out of tight corners.
The new Yamaha Tenere that should hit our shores next year looks like a good
package for Adv, hooning, and touring on.
Gotta love big trailies:2thumbsup

[Pancakes]

...i was only joking .. a bikes a bike and your love and joy is loved as much as anyone else's

I wouldn't say I love it. It's kinda like the girlfriend I'm cheap enough to keep while I lust after other peoples bikes! Does the trick in the meantime.

[carver]

I wouldn't say I love it. It's kinda like the girlfriend I'm cheap enough to keep while I lust after other peoples bikes! Does the trick in the meantime.

thats the spirit-bling awarded

[scracha]

is it true that to use 80 % of a sportsbikes cornering potential is relatively easy,

Bwhahahahaha. Try umm 50%. Hell, half the guys racing would struggle to use 80% on the track.



i find i can take a naked bike to 90-95% with ease, so does that make a naked bike faster around a tight road?
No, it just means the pegs touch down waaaaaay earlier than on a proper sportsbike. It also means you've got less in reserve when you fark up a corner or find something unexpected when you're cranked over.

[boomer]

:laugh::laugh::laugh: bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaha!

i'll see you on Sunday:Pokey:

[R6_kid]

There is an article in one of the recent british bike mags about 'space' - or the riders ability to percieve it, this being the main difference between being fast and being a winning racer.

IMO a sportsbike somewhat limits anyones ability to percieve their space, that and the fact that motards *feel* much easier to ride i would agree that I personally am faster on a motard/naked bike than a sportsbike.

[cowpoos]

There is an article in one of the recent british bike mags about 'space' - or the riders ability to percieve it, this being the main difference between being fast and being a winning racer.

IMO a sportsbike somewhat limits anyones ability to percieve their space, that and the fact that motards *feel* much easier to ride i would agree that I personally am faster on a motard/naked bike than a sportsbike.
yeah..I agree...and thats kinda of what I was eluding too.

[Harry the Barstard]

This is all very intersting,

I sold my 05 6RR an got a 05 900 Hornet due to a few speeding issues. The other day i rode the Tahuna road and stoped to look at my tyres in morrinsville to see how the they were scrubbing in, I found i had hit the little michellin man right on the edge of the pilot powers without even knowing it.

Now on my 6RR i had to realy try to scrub that lil bugger, In fact i went out for a ride with the sole purpose to tickle him with some seal.

So it seams un consiously im carving the corners way better on my naked than on the fully faired.

[Pancakes]

I got the naked version of my bike cos it's more comfy being up more but also cos there's more wind at the same speed, more wow for less tickets.

[cowpoos]

This is all very intersting,

I sold my 05 6RR an got a 05 900 Hornet due to a few speeding issues. The other day i rode the Tahuna road and stoped to look at my tyres in morrinsville to see how the they were scrubbing in, I found i had hit the little michellin man right on the edge of the pilot powers without even knowing it.

Now on my 6RR i had to realy try to scrub that lil bugger, In fact i went out for a ride with the sole purpose to tickle him with some seal.

So it seams un consiously im carving the corners way better on my naked than on the fully faired.
ground clearence sounds like the reason most likely.

[Edbear]

I could scrape the pegs on the old GSX600F and now on the C50T it's even easier, but I'd say I'd probably still be slower than most whether I wuz naked or not...;)

[cowpoos]

I could scrape the pegs on the old GSX600F and now on the C50T it's even easier, but I'd say I'd probably still be slower than most whether I wuz naked or not...;)
**notices sexual undertones** maybe you should buy a set of the backside-less leather chaps quasi's bringing in for a customer??

[Motu]

It is not a matter of naked versus 'sports'. It is a question of size , power and weight. Other things being equal, a small light bike will be faster through a corner than a bigger heavier one.

I think in the real world of New Zealand back roads a sports bike is at a disadvantage....anything away from the perfect surface has the rider bleating about Councils and contractors.A less hard edged bike copes a lot better....and so is just as fast point to point.

Having ridden the exact same bike with 3 or 4 different capacities - I have to say I was faster and more confidant on the smallest capacity.I was able to push the bike to it's absolute limit (OK,in my mind anyway) by having higher entry,corner and exit speeds,being harder on entry and getting harder on the gas earlier.Point to point most likely faster on the biggest capacity....but I would ride harder all the way on the smaller capacity.Obviously enjoyment for me comes from being able to ride hard without getting into problems caused by power.

[steveb64]

It is not a matter of naked versus 'sports'. It is a question of size , power and weight. Other things being equal, a small light bike will be faster through a corner than a bigger heavier one. It is a matter of physics. And as a given corner has a maximum speed, which will almost always be much less than the top speed of either bike, the only factor remaining is how fast the bike can power out of the corner.If comparing, say a 650 twin with a 1000 four , the extra exit speed of the four may not be enough, if the straights are short enough, to compensate for the faster speed of the smaller lighter bike through the corner. And on a poor surface the need for precise throttle control on the power engine may be an impediment.

But something like an RGV250 would be faster than either of them.

Until the straights get longer. And the 1000 blasts past.

And that's why I LOVE my Ducati. The puny hp rating coupled with nice sticky tyres (which also last longer), means I can get on the gas WAY earlier than the guys on R1's GSXR's etc - and really launch up the shorter straights. The we get to the longer ones, and I wave bye bye to them as they blast back past... Ah well, the longer starights are where the cops like to hang out, so they can catch the tickets...:whistle:

[clint640]

The thing to realise is that like any bike, sportbikes are a compromise. Motard ergos are undoubtedly the shizz through the twistys, Sportbikes aren't made like that because of aerodynamics & are quite simply not as easy to ride fast around tight corners.

More stable power delivery from a single or twin & longer travel suspension that suits real world NZ roads also make a bike less suitable for most racetracks but much better for dusting Mr 1000RRR on a lap of the Coromandel.

Cheers
Clint

[Chrislost]

I ride a sport bike and the corro that i rode on was fine! didnt see any motards passing me, but that may just be that there were none or that they were all traveling at the speeds the signs said.
on saying that i havnt actually ridden a motard around the coro yet and i was still going around a a few bigger bikes on the hills.

[Supermoto Junkie]

The thing to realise is that like any bike, sportbikes are a compromise. Motard ergos are undoubtedly the shizz through the twistys, Sportbikes aren't made like that because of aerodynamics & are quite simply not as easy to ride fast around tight corners.

More stable power delivery from a single or twin & longer travel suspension that suits real world NZ roads also make a bike less suitable for most racetracks but much better for dusting Mr 1000RRR on a lap of the Coromandel.

Cheers
Clint

My thoughts exactly:2thumbsup

[merv]

I think in the real world of New Zealand back roads a sports bike is at a disadvantage....anything away from the perfect surface has the rider bleating about Councils and contractors.

Then there are the gravel roads, no good trying to go fast around corners then when in the foetal tuck.

Being a an old dirt biker from way back even riding my VFR you won't find me bleating about Councils and contractors I'm happy to rely on my eyes (with glasses these days) and read the surface so I guess I don't ride it fast enough then eh!

[DMNTD]

The thing to realise is that like any bike, sportbikes are a compromise. Motard ergos are undoubtedly the shizz through the twistys, Sportbikes aren't made like that because of aerodynamics & are quite simply not as easy to ride fast around tight corners.

More stable power delivery from a single or twin & longer travel suspension that suits real world NZ roads also make a bike less suitable for most racetracks but much better for dusting Mr 1000RRR on a lap of the Coromandel.

Cheers
Clint
:niceone:



I ride a sport bike and the corro that i rode on was fine! didnt see any motards passing me, but that may just be that there were none or that they were all traveling at the speeds the signs said.
on saying that i havnt actually ridden a motard around the coro yet and i was still going around a a few bigger bikes on the hills.

I've currently own and have owned both styles of rides...take my word for it when I say it's a lot easy to not only keep up in the twisties but pass if I so desire whilst riding my SD-R :eek:

[Edbear]

**notices sexual undertones** maybe you should buy a set of the backside-less leather chaps quasi's bringing in for a customer??



Mmmmmm! Mebbe I could get the Missus to model them for me...:love:


:Offtopic: Ahem! As you were...

[Sidewinder]

On most roads that are sealed I'd put my K7 against any naked bike.

Round a Count Down car park I'd put my minimoto (sportsbike) up against any bike :D

your on then!

[Sidewinder]

Nah you and your mate on the 250 are just freeks please dont get a sportsbike

yea and the back tryer wouldnt say on the road!