Harley model history

[swanman]

Does anyone have some links to Harley sites that give the model histories in detail with pics. I am looking to buy one and am trying to get a grip of the 2nd hand hd market models. Cheers

If I had the money tho definitely a fat bob. :yes:

[sunhuntin]

theres heaps out there dude! flatheads were the first, then knucks, then pans [my personal favourite!] then shovel, and then evos... i dunno what the new ones are called, lol.

google will help you. personally, id love my partners 65 panhead decker *drool* but failing that ill take either a heritage softail classic or a springer of some kind... love the springer!

[Headbanger]

This site ain't bad, If your willing to get familiar with how it works.

http://www.hdfxr.dk/public/misc/CompareModels.aspx?ModelId=965

It concentrates on the FXR and FXD (DYNA) range, so if your after Sportsters or the big fat ones you will have to look elsewhere. Likewise with Softtails.

Start with the drop down menus under FXR and DYNA

[swanman]

That's a good start cheers. Having probs finding good site on google which surprises me.

[popelli]

Do you want to ride or do you want to pose?

If you want to pose the answer is simple, buy a softail, they don't handle too clever but they look great

If you actually want to ride the bike look for an FXR, a far better bike than the dyna glide that replaced it.

If you want to ride long disatnce but a Electraglide or a road king

Money wise the evo's are cheap at the minute and the evo is a better motor than the twin cam that replaced it, the evo is good for well over 100,000 km without any major work, the twin cams don't have this reputation

[Headbanger]

I could disagree with every point in that post.

[Omega1]

Yeah well, I like the bit about the engines lasting over 100.000kms

[sAsLEX]

I could disagree with every point in that post.

Well do and add your thoughts we would like to know.


But what I was wondering is the last time I was on a ride with you Swan you were on the R1! It did go home on a trailer with two other bikes that day though I suppose!?

Wasn't Zed following you through that tightening special corner on 22 that day!?

[Headbanger]

Simply that softtails are no more poser machines then the FXR, sure they may have a potentially slower maximum cornering speed then some other bikes in the line up but so what? Hell, Everyone I ride with that has a softtail can take some mean lines, It has more to do with ya balls then the orientation of the rear shocks.

FXR, too long in the tooth, and too expensive compared to the later Dyna models, I have spent many years on an an FXRS and my last two bikes have been Dyna models, all of them have been brilliant, Though while the earlier models came from the factory with more horsepower they all needed a bit of bolt-on to make em breath.

I've seen people claim the FXR frame handles better then the FXD, I think they are talking out of their arseholes, It always seems to be people sticking to their FXR till death that make these claims, so no surprise. Not that I think they should upgrade, ride what suits, Enough shit talking though.

The Twin-Cam doesn't have a bad rep, no matter what some non-owners would have you believe, They simply can't handle change.

My next bike will be a V-Rod, How do ya like them apples?

[sunhuntin]

fuck, v-rods are ugly as sin... sorry, but YICK! and they dont sound like a harley either... first experience i remember having with a harley, the exhaust had my insides moving like i was standing next to a concert speaker. v-rods, i feel like my hearings been muted.

i love softails for the looks, but im a rider. as such, ill likely get a decker with hardbags and tourpak.

i think i pissed off a local decker rider yesterday... asked him what year his bike is "2000. getting a bit old now though!" well, fuck me!! i shot back with "old? shes only 7, still a baby!!" he wasnt too impressed i dont think. but he, i consider a poser. 7 years aint old. shoulda asked what the milage is on her... lol. :jerry:

[pritch]

fuck, v-rods are ugly as sin...

Well I guess beauty is in the eye of the beerholder. For my money The original VRod is not just by far the best looking Harley, it's on my short list of best looking bikes of all time.

[popelli]

Yeah well, I like the bit about the engines lasting over 100.000kms

my evo has 250,000 kms on it

[swanman]

Do you want to ride or do you want to pose?

If you want to pose the answer is simple, buy a softail, they don't handle too clever but they look great

If you actually want to ride the bike look for an FXR, a far better bike than the dyna glide that replaced it.



Wanna ride and pose really. I like the look of the new fat bob, or the supa glide sport. Don't like apehangers and tassels, sequins etc.

[swanman]

But what I was wondering is the last time I was on a ride with you Swan you were on the R1! It did go home on a trailer with two other bikes that day though I suppose!?

Wasn't Zed following you through that tightening special corner on 22 that day!?

Yes that was a couple of years ago now. Turning 40 next year time to move into a different mode.

[Hailwood]

Whatever..:Playnice: And there are no posers on FXRs and Dynas????? I chose my Softail because it was one of only two Harleys that I enjoyed riding..the other being the V-Rod but there was not enough room for a pillion to rode comfortably on....rode Dynas, Wideglides, not my cup of tea.....but then each to their own...I believe that you buy the bike that you like not what anyone else thinks...go and ride all the models you can and then make a decison on what floats your boat.....

[klink]

If your not thast keen to apply yourself to the tools then anything later than about 83 evo through to tc88 and on.

If your good on the tools then shovel, but try and avoid anything slapped together in the AMF years. My personal fav is the PAN as well. You need a chunky wallet for a good one tho..

Klink

[swanman]

I am ok with tools, but would rather have something as maintenance free as possible.

BTW what are the "AMF years"?

[scumdog]

AMF years?
That's when Harley was owned by AMF (the company that still makes 10-pin bowling alleys) and they were more concerned with manufacturing out-put than quality.

Not sure of exact start of AMF years - about 1978 but H-D took back the reins in 1981.

BTW I had a AMF year Sporty, it was waayyy tired when I got it but once I sorted it out it continued to run strong for years without more than oil changes, chain adjustment etc - normal stuff.

FXD Dynas need a little gadget to make them handle - the whole engine/trans/swing-arm are bolted together as a unit - and then rubber mounted to the frame, it does nothing to instill confidence in the handling so there is a kit you can get (I'm making them for my bike) that includes a few heim-joints and mounting plates, these stop the side to side wallow but still allow the engine etc to 'rock'.

If I had my way I would solid mount the engine etc to the frame, what's a bit of vibration??

Twin-cams (the latest H-D 'big' engine) DID have a few problems with the cam-bearings sacking-out when they got to 25,000km or so - but that was the early one, i.e. 1999 -part of 2000.

Google: cyclespot, it you can blunder your way around the interwebby thing you'll stumble on a site re H-D models.
PM me if you need the exact address.

[Headbanger]

The weak cam bearings have been in use since about 1994, In all Evo's and 88's.

[scumdog]

The weak cam bearings have been in use since about 1994, In all Evo's and 88's.

Never heard of it being a problem in the Evos and the post- 2000 Twin-cams (88's) are meant to be ok. It was just the early 88's with a ball type bearing (from memory) that were the problem.

Here 'tis:
"On December 14, 1999 a running change was made in the design and production of the rear cam bearing in Twin Cam 88 and Twin Cam 88B engines. The change replaced the ball bearing style bearing in the rear cam with tapered roller bearings. The Motor Company is aware of the publicity this change has received and the concern some customers may have with the performance of cam bearings.

In order to ensure our customers' satisfaction, the Motor Company extended a 5 year/50,000 mile warranty on the rear cam bearings to owners of certain 1999 and 2000 vintage Twin Cam 88 and 88B motorcycles. The affected motorcycles have ball bearing style bearings in the rear cam and were manufactured between July 1998 and December 14, 1999. "

Hope this helps.

[Headbanger]

Interesting, I'll find the info I have been reading on the subject and get back to ya.

[Headbanger]

Righto, The theory being the standard INA bearing is prone to collapse but more likely to happen once the cam has been upgraded. I have seen plenty of reports from people saying theirs have fallen apart, but for all I know this number may fall into what ever failure rate is designated as acceptable by HD.

Up until 1992 HD used a Torrington bearing before switching to the INA in all its engines. The replacement Torrington bearing can be purchased for about $30NZD and it is generally recommended to upgrade this item if that area of the engine is ever opened up.

Torrington B-138 cam bearing to give it full name

This thread has some solid info in it, Especially from Springer who is obviously a HD mechanic.


http://www.hdforums.com/m_874385/tm.htm




Anyway, While it may not cripple every bike, Its accepted as something that needs attention, and for the sake of $30 bucks, Ya can't go wrong. I ordered one in to go with my new cam....


Hope this helps.

[popelli]

Up until 1992 HD used a Torrington bearing before switching to the INA in all its engines. The replacement Torrington bearing can be purchased for about $30NZD and it is generally recommended to upgrade this item if that area of the engine is ever opened up.
.

yes they used the cheap crap bearing for about 2 years, they have been known to fail with standard cams - if you have no proof that it's been changed, change it

If this bearing fails it will cost a lot more than $30 to fix the damage it will cause

it is a doddle to change if you have the correct puller to get the old bearing out, otherwise you may have difficulty

and whilst you are in there slip in an EV27 cam or something similar, more power everywhere with no adverse side effects

[Defiant]

Yep it all started with a v-twin powered water pump out in a paddock that wasn't bolted down and the farmer tried to sit on it to stop it from moving round the farm...well it ended up bouncing into town up to the closest pub and his mates said that cool, so they all dis-attach'd their pump engines and started to ride them to the pub...:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

JUST JOKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:doh::stupid:

[Troll]

AMF years?
Not sure of exact start of AMF years - about 1978 but H-D took back the reins in 1981.

.


AMF took over late 60's through to early 80's

They made a lot of mistakes but what they did do was pour loads of money into new tooling

Also brought out the 1980 FXWG with flames on the tank

Aparantly introduced quality control around 77, god knows how bad they must have been before this was introduced

[Headbanger]

69 through to 81 if we were going to put numbers to it...

and according to wiki


American Machinery and Foundry (AMF) bought the company, streamlined production, and slashed the workforce. This tactic resulted in a labor strike and a lower quality of bikes. The bikes were expensive and inferior in performance, handling, and quality to Japanese motorcycles. Sales declined, quality plummeted, and the company almost went bankrupt. The venerable name of "Harley-Davidson" was mocked as "Hardly Ableson", and the nickname "Hog" became pejorative.

w00t w00t.

[scumdog]

AMF took over late 60's through to early 80's

They made a lot of mistakes but what they did do was pour loads of money into new tooling

Also brought out the 1980 FXWG with flames on the tank

Aparantly introduced quality control around 77, god knows how bad they must have been before this was introduced

Ah, that's why I thought of the '78 year - the quality control thing.

I believe th big "1" logo with starts&stripes was the AMF logo on H-Ds.

[sunhuntin]

ive only seen one AMF harley in person... frickin ugleeeeeeee! didnt even look like a harley. yick!

[Headbanger]

About the only good thing to come out of the AMF years was the XR-750, If I had the money to be a collector thats what I would have, and probably stop with just that, or maybe a couple of em. Use one for paddock racing.

Anyway, In the wtf are they smoking category, heres an AMF HD, built in Italy, commissioned by crack heads, sold to no one...probably.

Though I suppose if ya mounted a big set of Apes, a drag pipe, some tassels, 2 foot high sissy bar, Then the ladies would come running,..To get a share of the crack....

[Headbanger]

I am ok with tools, but would rather have something as maintenance free as possible.



Buy an Evo, They are rock solid.

[scumdog]

ive only seen one AMF harley in person... frickin ugleeeeeeee! didnt even look like a harley. yick!

What model??:wacko::scratch:
AMF made Sportsters, Supeglides, etc etc just like Harley still make. :ride:

[Troll]

ive only seen one AMF harley in person... frickin ugleeeeeeee! didnt even look like a harley. yick!

Are you a hog member? most of them don't know what a shovel head or iron head even looks like

you have only ever seen one AMF bike in person???? where the hell have you been burying your head for the last 30 years

AMF made some of the best looking harleys ever

the 1980 FXWG wide glide with flames on the tank was a design classic

Shovelheads were always a better looking bike than the FXR evo that replaced them

[Headbanger]

Thats just your opinion, 90 percent of shovels looked like crap in comparison to the bikes based around the EVO.

Hell, The AMF year bikes look like they got their "look" by accident, They just bolted guards and tank to a frame, whack on a tank, There ya go, One pig ugly awkward lookin Harley.


Of course, Thats just my opinion.

Willie G saved HD, even if it was just for the aging yuppies.

Hell, I wonder how many AMF bikes were even imported into NZ?, Bugger all I would expect, Its no wonder most people have never seen one.

[scumdog]

Thats just your opinion, 90 percent of shovels looked like crap in comparison to the bikes based around the EVO.

Hell, The AMF year bikes look like they got their "look" by accident, They just bolted guards and tank to a frame, whack on a tank, There ya go, One pig ugly awkward lookin Harley.


Of course, Thats just my opinion.

Willie G saved HD, even if it was just for the aging yuppies.

Hell, I wonder how many AMF bikes were even imported into NZ?, Bugger all I would expect, Its no wonder most people have never seen one.

Just about all Shovels and Iron-heads left on the roads in NZ nowadays are AMF ones, after all, for a while that was all you could get in NZ (and cost primo).

Hell, go to any rally and there is one or two (or more) there if you look.

Most look like "a Harley" - no uglier, no flasher than any present Harley, a lot looked like the earlier Evos but with a 'funny' looking engine.

[Headbanger]

Just about all Shovels and Iron-heads left on the roads in NZ nowadays are AMF ones, after all, for a while that was all you could get in NZ (and cost primo).

Hell, go to any rally and there is one or two (or more) there if you look.

Most look like "a Harley" - no uglier, no flasher than any present Harley, a lot looked like the earlier Evos but with a 'funny' looking engine.

Jeezus, How am I meant to wind him up if you interject?

Muhahahahaha

there is still bugger all pre-evo Harleys in NZ.

[sunhuntin]

this one... a sprint. couldnt get a decent shot cos it was jammed in amongst a shitload of wrecks at a bike shop just north of welly. it might not actually be an amf... cant recall right now.

troll... given that im only 22, for some of those 30 years i didnt exist, lol. and no, im not a hog member, but my love of harleys and bikes in general isnt any less. my favourite, as previously stated, is my partners 65 panhead decker. i can name any engine [pan, knuck etc] up til evo. then i get fuzzy cos my preference is for the older bikes.

i dont actually think ive seen a shovel on new zealand roads... but then ive seen so many bikes they all blend. seen about 5 flatheads over the last few years though, including one silent grey fellow [my friend who was with me will attest i was nearly in tears at the sight of him... a dream come true. my favourite of all harleys.]

first pic is the sprint, second is my partners two bikes, the front is a last year shovel with custom paint [fell in love with that bike first... and went over most of ontario on the back of it.] the pan is in the back and partly obscured. spent 3 days cleaning it, and found some blue LED under the hardbags caked under several inches of dry mud.

[Headbanger]

Thats well before AMF, early 60's.

And there are a number of Shovels in Wanganui, You have definitely seen a few of them, Though they tend to be from their last few years of production, and hence not AMF bikes, The last of the Shovels was in 85.

Have a look at the pic I have attached, Its in AMF colours, and is I believe the first design they came up with when they took over.

[sunhuntin]

ah well, there ya go then! LOL. so, any of you edumacated lot got pics of amfs then? i prefer the harley harleys, not the half branded.

like the colors... hate the seat, lol.

[scumdog]

The Sprint is not a 'real' Harley - it was made by Aermachii (sp) who also made NZ Airforce trainers and was only marketed by H-D.

Were sort of 125 -350cc range and designed for off-road.

And you SHOULD have seen a few Shovels by now if you look around AND know what to look for:yeah:

[sunhuntin]

saw one at southwards... lol. dont recall seeing one on the road, but, as i say, ive seen so many bikes in the last few years, only the indians and flathead harleys really stand out in my memory. and yes, i know what to look for.

[Headbanger]

The one in Southwards belonged to a good friend of mine, He bought that bike new when he was in Aussie. After that it lived its entire life in Wanganui.

Wasn't even allowed to breath near that bike, Watching him kickstart her was always interesting.

Looked better when it was white with blue flames.

[Troll]

...troll... given that im only 22, for some of those 30 years i didnt exist...

maybe if you are only 22 you should engage your brain before you rubbish other peoples bikes

enclosed is a picture of one ugly shovel as you describe them in this case its mine

[sunhuntin]

maybe if you are only 22 you should engage your brain before you rubbish other peoples bikes

enclosed is a picture of one ugly shovel as you describe them in this case its mine

look here, i said the one ONE i had seen was ugly... that doesnt mean that they all are. and as i turned out, i had my bikes mixed up and the one i thought i saw was aermacchi... get your facts right before commenting, ok? if you would like to prove me wrong on this, go back and find the quote where i said that all of em were ugly?

[Virago]

maybe if you are only 22 you should engage your brain before you rubbish other peoples bikes...

Maybe you should grow some thicker skin...

[Headbanger]

maybe if you are only 22 you should engage your brain before you rubbish other peoples bikes

enclosed is a picture of one ugly shovel as you describe them in this case its mine

Sorry to hear about your ugly bike.

[scumdog]

Sorry to hear about your ugly bike.

Mwahahahah! - you evil man.:bleh:

(Must Spread Rep)

[AllanB]

Funny how reputations for poor quality stick or do not stick. Its pretty much a fact that the AMF HD were junk. The US government saved them in the late 70's or early 80's by introducing import tariffs on imported (ie Japanese) motorcycles. This gave HD the chance to get their shit together (rest is history) - the 4 big Japanese makers got around this tariff by opening USA assembly factories but by then HD had improved and continues to do so.
The Japanese bikes of the 60's were referred to as 'jap crap' (probably started by a American) but quickly improved to the point where Hondas 1969 750 four was the start of the death bell for Triumph, BSA, Norton, almost HD and a host of other names that would not start or run without a engineering degree! The Japanese are now the yard stick for reliability to the point where they are so good that they get called bland and lacking in character!
In addition pick any model of bike made by anyone and you'll find a Google of 'issues' relating to something from a bearing issue to a water pipe clamp that has bee nor may be an issue on some models.
So buy what you like and do what you like with it just don't be a wanker and snub me on the road because you think your ride is better. WTF's with snotty BMW riders eh?

[Headbanger]

Funny how reputations for poor quality stick or do not stick. Its pretty much a fact that the AMF HD were junk. The US government saved them in the late 70's or early 80's by introducing import tariffs on imported (ie Japanese) motorcycles. This gave HD the chance to get their shit together (rest is history) - the 4 big Japanese makers got around this tariff by opening USA assembly factories but by then HD had improved and continues to do so.
The Japanese bikes of the 60's were referred to as 'jap crap' (probably started by a American) but quickly improved to the point where Hondas 1969 750 four was the start of the death bell for Triumph, BSA, Norton, almost HD and a host of other names that would not start or run without a engineering degree! The Japanese are now the yard stick for reliability to the point where they are so good that they get called bland and lacking in character!
In addition pick any model of bike made by anyone and you'll find a Google of 'issues' relating to something from a bearing issue to a water pipe clamp that has bee nor may be an issue on some models.
So buy what you like and do what you like with it just don't be a wanker and snub me on the road because you think your ride is better. WTF's with snotty BMW riders eh?

I really don't see the purpose for any of that rant, Though if its any consolation, I snub people on the road because I think I'm better, The fact that my ride is as well is just icing on the cake.

[Troll]

Maybe you should grow some thicker skin...

maybe I could.......

and maybe some people could think before they rubbish things they know very little about

AMF had very poor quality control, there has never been any doubt about that

but seeing one AMF bike and using that as a basis for a judgement on all AMF bikes is not so clever

changing the subject have you had any problems with the starter motor on your virago, I hear that they give loads of problems or has that been cured yet?

[AllanB]

I really don't see the purpose for any of that rant.

Well shucks there goes 90% of this site then;)

[sunhuntin]

maybe I could.......

and maybe some people could think before they rubbish things they know very little about

AMF had very poor quality control, there has never been any doubt about that

but seeing one AMF bike and using that as a basis for a judgement on all AMF bikes is not so clever

changing the subject have you had any problems with the starter motor on your virago, I hear that they give loads of problems or has that been cured yet?

again, i challenge you to quote exactly where i "rubbished" them all, as i never did any such thing.