Oh Great! More good news...

[vifferman]

There was a short article in The Harold this morning saying that a British insurance study had shown that the death / serious injury prospects for motoryclists were increased by the trend towards wider, stronger 'A pillars' in cars (the ones either side of the front windscreen). These make the passenger compartment stronger and help cars to achieve better crash-test ratings, but I guess when a motorcylist hits the car there's less deformation to cushion the impact.

This raised a thought in my puny brain: There have been many advances made in improving car safety, but how many improvements in motorcylce safety have there been?

Brakes, suspension, handling, lights and tyres have all improved (though not really for safety reasons, just as part of normal model evolution), and 'anti-idiot devices' such as sidestand cutout switches have been widely adopted by manufacturers, but what else has been done to make bikes safer? I know they are inherently dangerous, but there are still things that can be done to make them a bit safer, like ensuring the rider has better leg protection in a slide or lowside (frame sliders, robust footpegs), having break-away handlebars (via cotter pins) so that impact with the bars in a collision isn't so likely to result in serious leg injuries (or leaving your goolies behind on the top of the triple clamp :eek: ), making the top of the tank lower to reduce lower abdominal injuries, shifting the gas tank to keep weight lower, etc etc.

I know that safety is almost never a factor in bike purchasing decision-making, otherwise we'd all ride those dreadful BMW C1s (blow that for a joke).
Is 'bike safety' just an oxymoron? Should we just go, "Meh! Bikes are dangerous - that's part of the attraction!" ?
Do manufacturers have a responsibility to follow car makers and make our toys safer instead of just more eco-friendly?
Do I need to post another meaningless poll?
Should we petition the Gubmint, and get them to ban our dangerous weapons from the roads?
{rant / worry mode off}

Can I go back to sleep now?

[James Deuce]

Oi! You!

Stop smoking herbal cigarettes and get back to work.

[jrandom]

Is 'bike safety' just an oxymoron? Should we just go, "Meh! Bikes are dangerous - that's part of the attraction!" ?

Yes.


Do manufacturers have a responsibility to follow car makers and make our toys safer instead of just more eco-friendly?

Yes.


Can I go back to sleep now?

Yes.

[Midnight 82]

:calm: Do all these studies like NZ do show that 80% of bike accidents in NZ are from off road users. They dont have rego/warrent ACC that we pay. Im not having ago at off road bikers, but wheres the fairness we pay for off road accidents. :whistle: :sweatdrop

[kerryg]

:calm: Do all these studies like NZ do show that 80% of bike accidents in NZ are from off road users. They dont have rego/warrent ACC that we pay. Im not having ago at off road bikers, but wheres the fairness we pay for off road accidents. :whistle: :sweatdrop


Really? Is that right? If so it's very interesting bit of information. Tell me more

[Midnight 82]

:yeah: Ask ACC for a copy of bike accident reports each year :ride:

[AMPS]

Bike magazine did an article on this recently. The risk arises from the 'A' pillars obscuring visibility far more than the old 'unsafe ones. Tests showed that these pillars can completely obscure a bike on a roundabout as a car is entering, right until impact.
Maybe they really don't see us.
Lou

[NC]

Bike magazine did an article on this recently. The risk arises from the 'A' pillars obscuring visibility far more than the old 'unsafe ones. Tests showed that these pillars can completely obscure a bike on a roundabout as a car is entering, right until impact.
Maybe they really don't see us.
Lou


They don't see us, cause they are looking the other way :weep:

[Ms Piggy]

What about factoring in that safety gear has improved? Well I assume it has, being a new rider I can only guess at that. Anyone? Although I still lots of lunatics rding with t-shirts, shorts, sneakers & undone helmets. :shit:

[jrandom]

What about factoring in that safety gear has improved? Well I assume it has...

Helmets probably have.

The rest o'it is all just leather, really, innit. Cows have always been much of a muchness, skin-wise.

The whole nylon, goretex and CE foam armour thing has certainly helped the comfort factor, but I'm not sure whether it's contributed much to safety, apart from getting riders to wear full protective gear where they would otherwise not have bothered.

[Mr Skid]

What about factoring in that safety gear has improved? Well I assume it has, being a new rider I can only guess at that. Anyone? Although I still lots of lunatics rding with t-shirts, shorts, sneakers & undone helmets. :shit:

My ID has always thought it'd be a nice idea to push them off at 30km/h, so they'd learn about the need for safety gear before they got the chance to fall off in sneakers at 100km/h.


But my super ego always gets in the way of fun.

[vifferman]

The whole nylon, goretex and CE foam armour thing has certainly helped the comfort factor, but I'm not sure whether it's contributed much to safety, apart from getting riders to wear full protective gear where they would otherwise not have bothered.This may contribute to safety when an 'accident' has occured, but has a possible negative impact on rider safety in that it could (in some circumstances) cause a rider to feel safer and therefore ride more recklessly.
Possibly.
So they say.

Whoever 'they' are. :spudwhat:

[James Deuce]

My ID has always thought it'd be a nice idea to push them off at 30km/h, so they'd learn about the need for safety gear before they got the chance to fall off in sneakers at 100km/h.


But my super ego always gets in the way of fun.My anima can kick your anima's butt.

[jrandom]

My anima can kick your anima's butt.

Well, *my* inner child's daddy can orchestrate hostile takeovers.

Nyaaahhhhh.

[rodgerd]

Is 'bike safety' just an oxymoron? Should we just go, "Meh! Bikes are dangerous - that's part of the attraction!" ?


Well, I always look at the fact that people who do dangerous things for a living - stuntpeople, rally drivers, etc - tend to be anal about doing it carefully, properly, and reducing risk. I think the the whole, "it's dangerous, so why bother" mindset is pretty fucking retarded.



Do manufacturers have a responsibility to follow car makers and make our toys safer instead of just more eco-friendly?


There's only so much manufacturers can do - but ABS appearing on standard bikes and cruisers rather than just sport-tourers would be good (apparently the Aussie Bandits will have it as an option), as an example. Likewise traction control, smarter steering dampers (electronicly regulated ones that vary according to speed are on some Hondas, I believe), and the like. Sure, they're not desireable for many sportsbike riders (well, perhaps traction control), but for bikes aimed at a more mainstream rider less focused on maximising power:weight ratios, they'd probably be a big win.

Consider how many offs would be prevented by a decent ABS system preventing people making the classic newbie "locked up my rear brake, forgot my front, slid into the car" mistake. Or not so newbie cock-ups in the wet on traffic markings...

Better monitoring of critical components wouldn't hurt, either. Wouldn't it be nice if your bike could monitor chain and tyre condition, and bleat about low tyre pressure or worn chains before you found out the hard way? Perhaps a bit much to ask when so many bikes can't come with a fuel gage! Run-flat tyres that cope with punctures and blowouts could prevent some unpleasant experiences.

Bluetooth units on the ECU that can allow helmets to pick up data and run a HUD wouldn't be a bad thing, either - it would be nice to be able to see my speedo without having to glance down. If I wanted real sci-fi territory, a rear camera that can feed a HUD display for my rear view, instead of the useless poxy mirrors on most bikes would be fantastic. Proximity sensors to let you know when some twat in your blind spot has decided to change lanes without looking would be a win.

Better headlights? That would be nice, as would ongoing improvements in tyre technology (think of the pizza courier's active tyres in Snow Crash as the ultimate objective).

Other than that, I think it's mostly down to what riders wear, not what the bike can do. There's some fascinating stuff I've seen on the CE standards (even CE Level 2 is below what many experts think it should be for the level of protection); those airbag jackets Wellington Motorcycles are stocking look really interesting - it would be nice if they had a better deployment trigger than a string to the bike.

Advances in materials technology could be a source of many improvements - foams that offer better deceleration capability, harder helmet and armour shells, better ability to spread impacts around. The ideal would be a material that can be soft or stiff depending on requirement - imagine a flexible liner in your jacket that can become a rigid barrier over the unprotected vitals like kidneys and the lower abdomen.

[Slim]

Survive a Fatal Accident? (http://www.cooperbiketraining.org.uk/news/articles/fatal_crash.html)

This is actually very interesting reading & is relatively short. Certainly something to think about if you're about to crash.

[jrandom]

think of the pizza courier's active tyres in Snow Crash as the ultimate objective

Personally, I would prefer a fairing-mounted Reason unit with helmet HUD controls.

[vifferman]

There's only so much manufacturers can do - but ABS appearing on standard bikes and cruisers rather than just sport-tourers would be good Cetainly, if it wasn't too expensive. Apparently the system fitted to VFR800s is excellent (as is the new iteration of DCBS), but when I last asked, they said the ABS model wouldn't be available here. I guess the market is too small?

Likewise traction control, Easy to link to the braking system, with ABS.

smarter steering dampers (electronicly regulated ones that vary according to speed are on some Hondas, I believe)Yeah, on the new CBR1000. Apparently works very well for all except the expert and those with big egos.

Better monitoring of critical components wouldn't hurt, either. A bit over the top, though. Add too many 'ancillary' components, and the bike starts to turn into a two-wheeled car, and needs outriggers. :laugh:

Bluetooth units on the ECU that can allow helmets to pick up data and run a HUD wouldn't be a bad thing, either - it would be nice to be able to see my speedo without having to glance down. Bluetooth helmets are already a literal reality. There are bluetooth-equipped helmets with speakers/mike, to connect to other bluetooth devices such as cellphones, MP3 players, etc.

If I wanted real sci-fi territory, a rear camera that can feed a HUD display for my rear viewAlready available and being marketed.

Better headlights? The latest ones are already very good indeed.

those airbag jackets Wellington Motorcycles are stocking look really interesting - it would be nice if they had a better deployment trigger than a string to the bike. The first ones marketed (not the ones selling here) had a sensor on the bike linked to the actuator on the jacket. If you came off the bike while it was moving, the jacket inflated.

[Riff Raff]

It seems to me that no matter what we do, nothing will stop those idiots in cars trying to take us out. I wonder how hard it would be for bike manufacturers to produce bikes with their own force field, so when cars decide to overtake you in your lane (because we don't need all that space on the road, do we?), on a blind bend with a 1000foot drop over the edge etc, the force field can gently nudge them further away from you... like over a cliff or something!
When I take over the world, all other vehicles will be banned from being on the road when I'm out on my bike ... I just hope that force field will save me when I take a corner too fast!!! :confused2

[James Deuce]

Traction control for bikes is really complicated, because the circumference of your wheel decreases as you roll off centre. If you listen you can hear the revs rise and fall as you bank then straighten up. Also in some cases a spinning rear tyre may be a saviour, and more grip could be a highside. The grip variables introduced by chassis flex as you lean and the effectiveness of suspension decreases would confuse a car oriented traction control as well. Affordable traction control is a way off IMHO.

[vifferman]

It seems to me that no matter what we do, nothing will stop those idiots in cars trying to take us out. I wonder how hard it would be for bike manufacturers to produce bikes with their own force field....My idea is that everyone should serve an apprenticeship on a bike before graduating to larger vehicles. The idiots who couldn't handle this would be removed from the gene pool, and the survivors would have a better appreciation for bikes and be more courteous and careful.
Hopefully.

[rodgerd]

My idea is that everyone should serve an apprenticeship on a bike before graduating to larger vehicles. The idiots who couldn't handle this would be removed from the gene pool, and the survivors would have a better appreciation for bikes and be more courteous and careful.


Road riding hasn't given me a better appreciation for bikes, just a better appreciation full stop. I've always been good at checking blind spots and the like, but it's taken being on a bike to properly appreciate how narrow some Wellington streets (eg Devon Street) really are.

Plus it's been good for my temprament. You can't really afford to get aggro on a bike, and cultivating a calmer demeanor while riding has helped my driving.

[Bonez]

I just hope that force field will save me when I take a corner too fast!!! :confused2
Nope. Will never happen. Force fields are idiot proof :whistle:

[Jackrat]

ABS,Traction control,speed sensitive steering dampers,ect,ect.
All very good as long as somebody still makes bikes for us bikers,if not you can shove the lot.Just more unneeded crap to keep the bike in the shop and guarante most bikers will never work on their own machines.

Maybe as well just buy another car. :rolleyes: :wacko:

[James Deuce]

ABS,Traction control,speed sensitive steering dampers,ect,ect.
All very good as long as somebody still makes bikes for us bikers,if not you can shove the lot.Just more unneeded crap to keep the bike in the shop and guarante most bikers will never work on their own machines.

Maybe as well just buy another car. :rolleyes: :wacko:

You also forgot to add that the more complicated it is the more likely it is to go worng. And cost you at least as much a single debt repayment for a badly managed large council.

[Skyryder]

At the risk of sounding indifferent there is not realy a lot that can be done to make the motor cycle more safe other than better suspension, brakes, wing mirrows etc. Clothing and protective ware are the best option in the event of a bin. When it comes to a serious crash avoidence and prevention are realy where it is at. To take this line to its ultimate if you do not want to crash on a bike stop riding. That is the safest way, but as we all know not much fun.


Skyryder

[Bonez]

ABS,Traction control,speed sensitive steering dampers,ect,ect.
All very good as long as somebody still makes bikes for us bikers,if not you can shove the lot.Just more unneeded crap to keep the bike in the shop and guarante most bikers will never work on their own machines.

Plenty of "depreciated" cikles to choose from thank goodness hah? :msn-wink:

[Midnight 82]

:sick: Well like Jim2 says you might as well by a car. My ole girl is a handful compared to a new bike but I love it. The power well balanced what more do you wont. :yeah:

[badlieutenant]

The first ones marketed (not the ones selling here) had a sensor on the bike linked to the actuator on the jacket. If you came off the bike while it was moving, the jacket inflated.
was thinking of getting one of those, with the string. But could just see the michelin man funnies people would pull, literaly, on you. :banana: