What's with the lack of gear?

[breakaway]

Recently, on the way to uni (Mt Eden Rd / Symonds St / Queen St) I've see heaps of riders on 250s not wearing CRITICAL bits of kit like gloves. Everytime when I'm crossing Queen streets, I see bikers pulled up to the lights without jackets or gloves.

No Jacket? .... that's not on.
No Gloves? That's just stupid.

What's gonna happen to your hands when you come off? You will instinctually put them out to break your fall.

I never used to see stuff like this earlier (In winter - :rolleyes: Anyone see a connection here?)

What's with the large influx of squids off late? One of these munters on a VTR or similar, without gloves / jacket tried to race me even.

Pull your heads in before something bad happens to you. I know it seems like it won't happen to you, but you WILL come off. Not a matter of if, but when and how hard. Some cager will not see you, or you'll hit a manhole cover in the wet. I personally used to believe It would 'never happen to me'. Next thing I knew I was sliding down the road with my bike falling down a 2m bank. I walked away from it with nothing more than a few bruises and a scratch on my elbow - all because I was wearing gear. See photos.

Sort your shit out kids, before you end up dead or worse.

[pzkpfw]

Not just 250's but scooters too.

Feaks me out.

[0arbreaka]

I did see a guy riding a recent R1 the other day with no gear apart from a helmet, it even looked as though he was wearing jandals.

[Blue Bandito]

I couldn't agree more.

A wise man once told me "dress for the accident not the ride"

Here's something to think about. Try diving onto the road while running as fast as you can in shorts and a tee shirt.

Who would be stupid enough to do that?

Even 50kph is a lot faster than most of us can run so if you have an accident without wearing proper gear it's gunna hurt.

[beyond]

Dumb arses.

I've said it heaps as well. Run as fast as you can on a standard chip road and throw yourself up in the air coming down on your knees and elbows and hands.

No one in their right mind would do that but they take the chance of doing it at heaps more the speed where they are going to slide for seconds.

Each second sliding down a chip road will take 5mm of skin and muscle from off the bod. Now we all know there isn't 5mm of skin and muscle covering knees, elbows and hands, so what's next. Welcome to the bone grinder :(

[klyong82]

I once saw a short chick riding a 2005 R1. She was wearing a casual red designers leather jacket (no padding) and three quarter jeans with sort of ballet shoes. Tried following her but she was so fast heading down Mt Eden Road.

2 or 3 days ago when I was riding with Breakaway headed for the motorway for a lunch ride we saw someone riding a bike and the pillion had a helmet but not the rider on Symond St. I just dont think that was wise.....

[James Deuce]

Don't forget that speed kills you!

Oooo, no gear. The Humanity!

Won't someone think of the children!

[sprag]

Coming back from a meeting heading north just before new market saw a guy (heading towards greenlane) in a t-shirt and 3/4 jeans and tennis shoes, all he had was a helmet.
He was on some sports bike but did not see what type, must have been doing about 90 - 100ks as he was keeping up with the other traffic.

Just bloody mad if you ask me.

[davereid]

Yeah. We should make all that gear compulsory like helmets.
And we should make bikers wear pink fluro jackets so we can see them.
And we should restrict their top speed to 50 km/hr for their own safety.
And should should ban all motorbikes except trikes, cos the two wheeled ones are too unstable.
And we should ban motorbikes cos they are just too dangerous.

Or we could just live and let live !

Edit.. before I get a page of moans from the safety experts I say wear your gear all the time, but be aware that motorcycles are much more dangerous than cars. The decision to ride a bike made you 31 times more likely to die than driving a volvo. The quality of your helmet and gear changes those odds only a little....

[swbarnett]

Or we could just live and let live.
Exactly, who are they going to hurt when they come off? Themselves. The pain is theirs so the decision is also theirs. Respect their right to that decision. Stop trying to run everyone else's life for them. Next thing you'll be telling me I can't ride a motorcycle at all because of how dangerous it is (or climb a mountain, bungee jump, skydive, ...)

This does not mean that I don't agree with you. Anybody riding without the gear is asking for trouble in my book, but they have a right to ask.

[0arbreaka]

Oh, but it is our taxes which pay for the months in which they spend in hospital getting skin grafts or other forms of surgery.

[davereid]

Oh, but it is our taxes which pay for the months in which they spend in hospital getting skin grafts or other forms of surgery.
Yeah thats why we should just ban bloody motorbikes.

[0arbreaka]

So your saying we should ban alcohol as well?, due to the amount of deaths and injuries that causes each year as well, what about cigarettes? last I heard they caused more deaths than motobikes could have.

[davereid]

No, you were the one who wanted to ban stuff cos it was dangerous not me !

[swbarnett]

Oh, but it is our taxes which pay for the months in which they spend in hospital getting skin grafts or other forms of surgery.
I used to think like you until it occurred to me that this very argument leads to the banning of anything that has the slightest possibility of costing the taxpayer a cent. What price freedom?

Remember that what is considered stupid today was considered perfectly acceptable yesterday.

Try to educate if you will but I will never support legislation that enforces particular behaviour in regards to personal safety (where the safety of others is concerned is a different matter). For example, Even though I wouldn't drive/ride without one I would like to see the removal of the seatbelt/helmet laws. It's my choice based on my own judgement. I will gladly contribute tax money to ensure that our society remains free. Really, the only inalienable right we have is the right to be stupid i.e. human.

[ynot slow]

[QUOTE=beyond;1266919]Dumb arses.

I've said it heaps as well. Run as fast as you can on a standard chip road and throw yourself up in the air coming down on your knees and elbows and hands.

Tried it a couple of times but usually pissed to the hilt,did it one time after step daughters wedding,ran ok across the road it was the kerb which stuffed me,woke up with bandage on hand and wondering why my elbow was saw,opened bandage and went shite,it the reason for hurting lol.
Stuffed if I'd ride with jandals and shorts,maybe to the dairy in summer but thats only 250mts and then probably not,maybe up the road and back if changing oil and checking levels.

[0arbreaka]

I was not saying that things should be banned, What I was trying to say was that because of some peoples stupidity of not wearing any gear it costs us the tax payers.

[swbarnett]

I was not saying that things should be banned, What I was trying to say was that because of some peoples stupidity of not wearing any gear it costs us the tax payers.
I agree that there is a cost to the taxpayer. As a taxpayer I choose to see the cost as the inate cost of a free society where the state is not running every aspect of my life (or anyone else's). I too would be pleased if everybody wore the proper gear all the time. However, I respect their right to make their own decisions. The fact that I pay to pay for the repairs is my decision, not that of the rider without gear. You can say "I'll not pay for that because you were a dumb ass!" and that's your right. What is not your right is to tell them that they must live by your particular set of beliefs, in some circles this is called "bible bashing".

To address the specific issue of who picks up the tab for injuries of any sort: In NZ it's the taxpayer because we have a no fault public medical system. In Switzerland they had a private system with compulsory medical insurance. This way the taxpayer does not foot the bill (and by all accounts they've got damn good hospitals).

[scracha]

Leave them be. Means more cheap motorcycles and accessories when they get spat off and never breathe/walk/get on a bike again.

[Oakie]

Oh, but it is our taxes which pay for the months in which they spend in hospital getting skin grafts or other forms of surgery.

Next time you get your annual rego form, check out how much of the $224 it is ACC levy. It's a huge part. We may pay once as taxpayers but we also pay again as motorcyclists and that is why it our business when riders don't wear the proper gear.

[davereid]

Its about 1/5th the actual cost to ACC of motorcycle accidents. Go to the ACC website and make a submission on ACC vehicle levies. Then they will send you a summary of accident costs. The real motorcycle ACC fee should be about $1500.

Start playing the "safest transport" game and we will lose. You will drive home in an eco friendly, ABS, airbag equipped Volvo at 50 kh/hr.

[onearmedbandit]

I wear 'all-the-gear-all-the-time' with the exception of maybe wearing jeans in town instead of my leather pants, but still believe in the right for people to choose for themselves.

[swbarnett]

Next time you get your annual rego form, check out how much of the $224 it is ACC levy. It's a huge part. We may pay once as taxpayers but we also pay again as motorcyclists and that is why it our business when riders don't wear the proper gear.
Consider this:

The risk of a motorcyclist WITHOUT gear costing the taxpayer $x is greater than one with gear so you feel justified in telling them how to live their life (what gear to wear).

Similarly:

The risk of a motorcyclist WITH gear (presumably you) costing the taxpayer $x is greater than a car driver so they feel justified in telling you how to live your life (how to get from A to B).

Are you happy about car drivers telling us that we shouldn't ride at all because it's dangerous and will cost them money? So what gives you the right to tell another motorcyclist what to wear (no matter how stupid we think it is)? Put yourself in their shoes.

[EJK]

was he riding a Scorpio? :innocent:

[Defiant]

I find it a bit annoying when i see the rider wearing all the right gear then on the back pillion seat you see a female in a tank top and shorts or so........whats up with that....are they not bothered that if they come off they are protected, but there pillion isnt??? or are they not thinking???.....maybe the chick on the back isnt thinking and forgets its a motorbike not a fashion runway?? (just my 2 cents worth.....)

[homer]

if it wasnt getting taxes dont you think they actually would ban everything

[Oakie]

Are you happy about car drivers telling us that we shouldn't ride at all because it's dangerous and will cost them money? So what gives you the right to tell another motorcyclist what to wear (no matter how stupid we think it is)? Put yourself in their shoes.

True, but part of riding is that we accept we are much more vulnerable than car drivers and we mitigate that danger by wearing appropriate gear in the same way that car drivers are supposed to mitigate their danger by wearing a seatbelt. I wouldn't tell another motorcyclist what to wear unless they asked ... but I do have the right to go "tut tut" to myself when I see someone wantonly exposing their body to additional and unneccesary harm.

[Dave_G]

[QUOTE=swbarnett;1267056]However, I respect their right to make their own decisions

I guess this means then that you also respect the right of the next car driver who changes lanes and knocks you off to walk away as well. After all thats his decision, and he's free to make that decision Right???? Spare me the the individual freedom crap, thats only an argument when no one else is affected by an individuals actions. Fact is the dick heads who dress like this, ride and have accidents are affecting the rest of us. They are affecting your insurance, your ACC levies, your taxes, and the availability of medical treatment for those who actually deserve it, and you never know, that might be your one day.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Exactly, who are they going to hurt when they come off? Themselves. The pain is theirs so the decision is also theirs. Respect their right to that decision. Stop trying to run everyone else's life for them. Next thing you'll be telling me I can't ride a motorcycle at all because of how dangerous it is (or climb a mountain, bungee jump, skydive, ...)


That would be fine. Except when they come off they expect ME to pay for expensive stuff like Ambulances, A & E's, trauma units and skin grafts. Why the hell should I if they are too stupid to do the right thing in the first place.

Lots and lots of people bleat on about "personal freedom" and all that shit, but concomitant to that is "personal responsibility": the obverse of the coin if you will.

Sure, be a tool, dont wear a helmet, eye protection. In fact you can pull a wheelie at 150 kph wearing only a divers mask and a pink G string, and your ballet slippers. Just dont expect me to pick up the pieces if it all goes to shit.

People thing "Oh the gummint will sort it out" or "the gummint will pay": the problem is that the gummint has no money except what they coerce from you and me. Look up "coerce": then look up the penalties in the various tax acts and tell me it isnt coercive. Reduce every question of public expenditure to one of "would I pay for that with my own money" because in fact that is what you are doing:

So: trauma units for sensible people: or unfortunate victims: of course.

more money for better roads: absolutely.

more money and better enforcement for driver training? about bloody time.

hospital care for the terminally stupid? not on my dime.

[HenryDorsetCase]

True, but part of riding is that we accept we are much more vulnerable than car drivers and we mitigate that danger by wearing appropriate gear in the same way that car drivers are supposed to mitigate their danger by wearing a seatbelt. I wouldn't tell another motorcyclist what to wear unless they asked ... but I do have the right to go "tut tut" to myself when I see someone wantonly exposing their body to additional and unneccesary harm.

car drivers are required by law to wear seatbelts.

riders are required by law to wear helmets. Given the reasonably foreseeable nature of injury if riding while wearing only a helmet, and your implied acceptance of that, why would you have a problem with a legislated requirement to wear appropriate gear at all times?

[DUCATI*HARD]

maybe they cant afford any:stupid:

[Dave-]

I don't care about compulsion, it's against common sense that irks me.

[James Deuce]

Common Sense?

The most Commonly Sensible people I know wear army greatcoats, gaiters, and cork helmets.

Neither speed nor accident has exploded them, despite the Governmental policy that speed shall kill, and the manufacturers propaganda that only leather, kevlar, and lorica styled armour shall provide the necessary protection to prevent all and any damage in the event of a bin m'lud.

Commenting on other people's riding attire is the same as standing on a step ladder and ranting over the fence at the neighbour about their messy back yard. You may not like what comes back over the fence.

Look ye first to thine own back yard.

[discotex]

What's with the large influx of squids off late?

I think it's the sunny weather. Seems to increase the number of scooters and they rarely wear any protective gear other than a helmet.

But get this...

On Friday I was walking down Ponsonby Rd to get lunch. Saw this scooter rider sitting at the lights with a funny looking flip face helmet. I'm standing waiting to cross thinking "fuck that's a really weird looking fliptop...!"

As he took off an got closer I saw why it looked so odd. Turns out the dumbarse had a full face helmet undone and pulled up so the chin guard was above his eyes!!! :wacko::blink:

[FruitLooPs]

Heh yeah I saw a fellow riding down Ilam road the other night with shorts sneakers and a tshirt on, just a helmet..

I'd cringed instinctivlely, hate to go for a skate wearing only that stuff. I've come off my pushbike at probably 25 or less and skinned myself up real well and thats enough to put me off..

Had an 18yr old lass living with me from wisconsin earlier this year, enjoyed going pillion but it was always an uphill struggle to get her to wear protective gear.

No gear, no ride - try telling that to a teenage chick who wants to go to the beach on a hot summers day.. rather be in a skirt and hatler top or something I dunno :crazy: Still i'm not going to be the sucker that explains to her mother why shes skinned down to the bone tho .. :angry2:

I don't know, some people just aren't that fussed with personal safety. She had also been in three car crashes back in the states with rolled vehicles etc, no seatbelts - wouldn't wear one here in NZ without me in the car to tell her to.. her parents don't wear em either etc . I'm thinking those big yank tanks won't save you forever..

[jim.cox]

Recently, on the way to uni (Mt Eden Rd / Symonds St / Queen St) I've see heaps of riders on 250s not wearing CRITICAL bits of kit like gloves. Everytime when I'm crossing Queen streets, I see bikers pulled up to the lights without jackets or gloves.

No Jacket? .... that's not on.
No Gloves? That's just stupid.

What's gonna happen to your hands when you come off? You will instinctually put them out to break your fall.

I never used to see stuff like this earlier (In winter - :rolleyes: Anyone see a connection here?)

What's with the large influx of squids off late? One of these munters on a VTR or similar, without gloves / jacket tried to race me even.

Pull your heads in before something bad happens to you. I know it seems like it won't happen to you, but you WILL come off. Not a matter of if, but when and how hard. Some cager will not see you, or you'll hit a manhole cover in the wet. I personally used to believe It would 'never happen to me'. Next thing I knew I was sliding down the road with my bike falling down a 2m bank. I walked away from it with nothing more than a few bruises and a scratch on my elbow - all because I was wearing gear. See photos.

Sort your shit out kids, before you end up dead or worse.


Hey Breakaway

what's with Safety Nazi attitude?

Aint you heard of personal responsibility? = you get to choose

Me, I'd never ride without gloves, but that's MY choice

They'll learn (and the hard way is probably the only way they will for some)

[Usarka]

I was out a few weeks ago and a nutter came the other way smoking into a corner far too hot, onto my side of the road, almost had a head on.

It's ok though, he had all the gear on.

[breakaway]

They'll learn (and the hard way is probably the only way they will for some)

Exactly. Just trying to talk some sense into these guys before something bad happens. I'm not a "ALL GEAR ALL THE TIME" advocate myself, but I never ride without helmet / jacket, and NEVER EVER without gloves. I don't want to end up in a position where I can't even hold my dick when I need to take a piss.


I was out a few weeks ago and a nutter came the other way smoking into a corner far too hot, onto my side of the road, almost had a head on.

It's ok though, he had all the gear on.

Where was this?

[jrandom]

I used to take the position that those who rode without gear caused trouble and expense for the rest of us.

Then I highsided a few months ago and smashed my thumb up, wearing full gear. My (very high quality) surgery and treatment would have taken at least several grand out of the ACC kitty.

In the end, motorcycling itself is risky. We pay the premiums to insure the bikes and ourselves, and we should consider ourselves fortunate to live in a society that allows us to make our own choices to the extent that it does.

[imdying]

Aint you heard of personal responsibility? = you get to chooseIf paying for cleaning you up after you shred your skin was your personal responsibility, then sure. You sign away your ACC rights, and then nobody will hassle you for riding around in your birthday suit if that's what suits you.

[Usarka]

Who do you really think costs this country more money?

1. The people who ride around sensibly without any safety gear

OR

2. The people who have all the gear and "push" their riding a little harder.
(hint: number 2)

I'm guessing all you safety nazis at one time or another have ALL done number 2.

[imdying]

Oh oh I know! You've obviosuly made some numbers up in your head though, so you might as well make up which one I was gonna choose too!

[Mikkel]

I used to take the position that those who rode without gear caused trouble and expense for the rest of us.

Then I highsided a few months ago and smashed my thumb up, wearing full gear. My (very high quality) surgery and treatment would have taken at least several grand out of the ACC kitty.

In the end, motorcycling itself is risky. We pay the premiums to insure the bikes and ourselves, and we should consider ourselves fortunate to live in a society that allows us to make our own choices to the extent that it does.

Spot on!

I'm still waiting for my leathers... Bloody annoying! Almost got myself hurt yesterday as well - would have been nasty wearing my non-abbrasive-resistant clothing. But what can you do? I've been waiting for 3 weeks now... :(

[imdying]

Where did you order them from? 3 weeks? For leathers? Let them keep them, plenty of shops selling leathers :yes:

[Usarka]

Oh oh I know! You've obviosuly made some numbers up in your head though, so you might as well make up which one I was gonna choose too!

Based on discussions with emergency staff at north shore hospital four years ago. Most riders they saw at the time were sports bike riders.

Got any contrary information to back up your sarcasm and hypocracy?

[jrandom]

But what can you do? I've been waiting for 3 weeks now... :(

I, personally, would tend to pass the time engaged in doggy-style sexual intercourse.

:dodge:

[Mikkel]

I, personally, would tend to pass the time engaged in doggy-style sexual intercourse.

:dodge:

No, YOU wouldn't... I am ;)

[90s]

I will never support legislation that enforces particular behaviour in regards to personal safety (where the safety of others is concerned is a different matter). For example, Even though I wouldn't drive/ride without one I would like to see the removal of the seatbelt/helmet laws.

This is really evolution in action.

[jrandom]

No, YOU wouldn't... I am ;)

Good chap.

Now, where did you order your leathers from?

Are we talking a cheap deal on a high quality one-piece being shipped from overseas, or something of that nature?

A three-week lead time from a local shop, paying local retail prices, is unacceptable.

[imdying]

Based on discussions with emergency staff at north shore hospital four years ago. Most riders they saw at the time were sports bike riders.

Got any contrary information to back up your sarcasm and hypocracy?Bahahaha, nope, by the sounds of it, I'll stand by my statement.

[davereid]

Some seem to have clued up to how it works. For those who havent look at it this way.

Some of the motorcyclists in this thread are saying "Those who ride without protective gear, do so because they don't understand the risks, or they understand them, but enjoy the wind in their hair. Should they crash, they will cost the taxpayer more. This is justification to ban riding without protective gear"

But there are many many more New Zealanders who see it like this:

"Those who ride motorcycles, do so because they don't understand the risks, or they understand them, but enjoy motorcycling. Should they crash, they will cost the taxpayer more. This is justification to ban motorcycling."

[imdying]

"Those who ride motorcycles, do so because they don't understand the risks, or they understand them, but enjoy motorcycling. Should they crash, they will cost the taxpayer more. This is justification to ban motorcycling."Yep, that's always a risk... fortunately, we have them about screwed on that front... it's impossible to build a mass transit system to move everyone, and they're screwed as far as building more roads go... they need scooters and motorcycles, as much as it gauls them. Can you imagine the Asian cities without bikes? Can you say total and utter grid lock?

[Usarka]

Yep, that's always a risk... fortunately, we have them about screwed on that front... it's impossible to build a mass transit system to move everyone, and they're screwed as far as building more roads go... they need scooters and motorcycles, as much as it gauls them. Can you imagine the Asian cities without bikes? Can you say total and utter grid lock?
Now I'd love to see the source of that information.

Another thing they do in asian countries is to tax the hell out of any bike over 125cc. After all you don't need a big bike to commute.

In thailand a 250cc bike is twice as expensive to (compulsory) insure as a 125.

[imdying]

Funnily enough, my big bike is twice as expensive to insure than my little one! You won't need a source for that, logic says a rail system or buses ain't gonna go everywhere... although to their credit, Chch has a pretty damn good bus service.

I ain't got a problem paying tax, I'm already paying it... I would however like to be able to have a single plate registered though, that I can move among my bikes.

[jim.cox]

If paying for cleaning you up after you shred your skin was your personal responsibility, then sure. You sign away your ACC rights, and then nobody will hassle you for riding around in your birthday suit if that's what suits you.

Nah, its too cold down here to go riding nude (much)

But I still dont think harping on like a Safety Nazi is going to save those squids from themselves - it just gets people's backs up

[skidMark]

in regards to gloves...

i came off at about 50 -60 kph...got knocked off

it's not lack of skill uve gotta worry about it's other idiot drivers....only had one glove on as i was running late and could not find my other glove....

i always usually wear gloves...

hand with glove was fine my right hand which was without a glove was all road rashed.....hurt like hell for 2 weeks.....

may i also mention boots are great..instead of sneakers!

[Cynos]

Recently, on the way to uni (Mt Eden Rd / Symonds St / Queen St) I've see heaps of riders on 250s not wearing CRITICAL bits of kit like gloves. Everytime when I'm crossing Queen streets, I see bikers pulled up to the lights without jackets or gloves.

No Jacket? .... that's not on.
No Gloves? That's just stupid.

What's gonna happen to your hands when you come off? You will instinctually put them out to break your fall.

I never used to see stuff like this earlier (In winter - :rolleyes: Anyone see a connection here?)

What's with the large influx of squids off late? One of these munters on a VTR or similar, without gloves / jacket tried to race me even.

Pull your heads in before something bad happens to you. I know it seems like it won't happen to you, but you WILL come off. Not a matter of if, but when and how hard. Some cager will not see you, or you'll hit a manhole cover in the wet. I personally used to believe It would 'never happen to me'. Next thing I knew I was sliding down the road with my bike falling down a 2m bank. I walked away from it with nothing more than a few bruises and a scratch on my elbow - all because I was wearing gear. See photos.

Sort your shit out kids, before you end up dead or worse.

I fully agree, my first off left me with a small bruise thanks to my gear - most of the impact was on my knees, but I've got the same brilliant pants as you.

[skidMark]

Bahahaha, nope, by the sounds of it, I'll stand by my statement.

J5pECaW-VMI

[Mole_C]

I saw a guy riding around in Surfers in just a helmet and boardies. No shirt, no shoes. Gave me a chuckle before I remembered that i still had a 20min walk in the oven.

[breakaway]

I saw a guy riding around in Surfers in just a helmet and boardies. No shirt, no shoes. Gave me a chuckle before I remembered that i still had a 20min walk in the oven.

Take out the thermal liner then :dodge::Oops:

[Oakie]

1. The people who ride around sensibly without any safety gear

Isn't that an oxymoron?

[Raelynn]

Who do you really think costs this country more money?

1. The people who ride around sensibly without any safety gear
OR
2. The people who have all the gear and "push" their riding a little harder.
(hint: number 2)

I'm guessing all you safety nazis at one time or another have ALL done number 2.

Mmm false dichotomies...

in the latest ACC report it said in 75% of motorcycle accidents the rider was not at fault... really, any biker who chooses not to wear gear is the greater cost, no matter the reasons or their IQ, because it's unlikely to be your ~choice~ that you binned.

I guess you could try to argue the rest of the accidents caused by riders are all number 2's, but I would hazard a guess that the connection between "No gear" and "being a retard" are more closely related than any of the other options.

At the end of the day it's blind ignorant cage drivers costing this country money - more if they hit someone who's chosen to not wear gear, not as much if they hit someone wearing some decent protection.

I would fall into a "all gear, all the time" category - I have confidence in ~my~ ability (minus the odd mishap :D), but none in 99% of other road users. Isn't that how everyone is taught how to drive/ride these days? Assume everyone else on the road is blind, deaf and stupid?

[breakaway]

I have confidence in ~my~ ability (minus the odd mishap :D), but none in 99% of other road users.

Yep. I really get a bad case of the shits when I have to stop quickly - I just start praying that the guy behind me is paying attention and doesn't shunt me.

[sunhuntin]

in the summer, and on nice winter days, i often ride around town with nothing more than jeans, helmet and fingerless gloves. the rest of me is covered in either a tshirt or singlet and sneakers.

i have come off once after being hit by a car that ran a stop sign. i was wearing:

steelcap cowboy boots
socks
jeans
singlet
helmet [open face]
sunglasses.

i hit her front right and sailed over her bonnet. i dont remember hitting the ground, but i must have done. rolled a few times and came to a rest on my back. i got to my feet very quick, though with pain, and took my helmet off. my givi topbox missed my head by less than a meter [it came off the racking, as did my back pack, which was sitting on her bonnet. it had been bunjied to the racking.] the box had all my kit in it: jacket, fingerless gloves etc.

it has been 2 years this month. my upper body came away with a small knick on the knuckle of my thumb. my lower body didnt fare so well.

my lower left leg, the jeans were shredded, and my skin was scraped up. my right knee left an impressive dent in the tank and swelled up bad. my sunglasses lens popped out, which was easily remedied.
i was carted to hospital against my wishes [wanted to go to work] where i was xrayed and my left leg put in a cast. the wound on that leg was NOT dressed prior to the cast going on. my swollen right knee was then left to support almost all of my weight.
2 weeks later, i went back to hosp for a check up. cast was cut off, and the bandage over the wound had almost been grown over. i was re xrayed, and the decision was the lens must have had a hair on it.

so, therefore, taxpayers money was wasted for a simple hair on the lens. it was not a lack of gear that caused my injuries. i would have been fine to work, maybe not that day, but a few days later.

my right knee was not even looked at by medics, and even as i type, it is aching from lack of movement and the cold. i am 22, and it will only get worse.

i escaped any major injury despite a major lack of gear, so no one can say that someone not wearing "proper" gear will come away badly hurt or worse. i am living, riding, proof of that.

btw, yesterday i went from levin to southwards in jeans and a sweatshirt just for shits and giggles. guess what? im still alive.

[Ixion]

The most Commonly Sensible people I know wear army greatcoats, gaiters, and cork helmets.

Neither speed nor accident has exploded them, despite the Governmental policy that speed shall kill, and the manufacturers propaganda that only leather, kevlar, and lorica styled armour shall provide the necessary protection to prevent all and any damage in the event of a bin m'lud.
..


Did someone mention greatcoats and gaiters. Did y'all notice the dude on Trademe selling most excellent oilskin greatcoats - I shall certainly buy one. And y'all know where to get gaiters, from your friendly Army Surplus store in K Rd, opposite the billboard of the chick with the titanic tits- can't miss them.

As to the 'wah wah you'll cost ACC ' argument. I pay ACC around $2000 a year for the privilege of being insured. So if I am injured, I've paid my way, so piss off. And I pay a shitload more in tax (and then have to pay for private medical insurance on top of that!) to cover not only my own hospital costs, but yours too. So double piss off.

[Usarka]

in the latest ACC report it said in 75% of motorcycle accidents the rider was not at fault... really, any biker who chooses not to wear gear is the greater cost, no matter the reasons or their IQ, because it's unlikely to be your ~choice~ that you binned.

Any chance of linking to that report? i seem to remember that was in relation to multi-vehicle accidents and didnt include single vehicle stats.

[pritch]

Before I had proper gear I didn't miss it. Always wore at least jeans and a jacket though. Normally I wear boots, and a jacket with armour for the daily commute but some of those work trousers are not very robust. Now I feel rather exposed if I'm not wearing the proper protection.

Was sitting in a column of traffic waiting for a green light today and kid went past on a scooter. Wrong side of the road, on the back wheel, sweatshirt, shorts and shoes, no gloves.

I wish him luck, he needs rather more than he should.

Nice style though :rolleyes:

[jigyjig]

its inevitable, once a month, someone will see someone riding who just doesnt give a fuck what the majority of you pc riders think wearing jeans an a t shirt smoking a ciggy, cold beer between the legs, texting away on his phone,

sure he / she might crash an injure 4 people, maybe 10! but this is once a week / month occurence not every hour,

think of the smokers, think of the fat ass's at the local fish an chip shop think of the people drinking at the pub,

shit loads more people causing shit loads more damage that you the goody two shoes pc tax payer are going to have to pay for,

motorcyclists not wearing gear? not breaking the law, not your problem. FUCK OFF.

[ambler]

the idea that anyone should have to pay for somebody else's medical bills at all is wack
perhaps we should pay for each others life insurance as well?

there is no way to truly 'live and let live' while we are digging into each others pockets.

[discotex]

Yep. I really get a bad case of the shits when I have to stop quickly - I just start praying that the guy behind me is paying attention and doesn't shunt me.

I always glance in my mirror when braking. Especially when braking hard!


opposite the billboard of the chick with the titanic tits- can't miss them.

That's such a landmark that billboard eh. Wonder if it's listed as heritage?



think of the smokers, think of the fat ass's at the local fish an chip shop think of the people drinking at the pub,

shit loads more people causing shit loads more damage that you the goody two shoes pc tax payer are going to have to pay for,

Exactly. Everyone does shit that ends up costing everyone else. It generally evens out in the end. Short of ditching the public health system and ACC and going to full private insurance there's not much you can do about it.

[jigyjig]

the idea that anyone should have to pay for somebody else's medical bills at all is wack
perhaps we should pay for each others life insurance as well?


through paying life insurance premiums you are contributing towards my replacement motorcycle i crashed, riding drunk. thank you.

maybe your not as smart as your mum told you

[swbarnett]

I guess this means then that you also respect the right of the next car driver who changes lanes and knocks you off to walk away as well.
If you'd read what I said you'd realise that I was talking about situations where the only person to get hurt was the one making the decision.


Spare me the the individual freedom crap, thats only an argument when no one else is affected by an individuals actions.
Sorry if I didn't explain in clearly enough but this is exactly my point. Where no one else is affected let them make their own choices.


Fact is the dick heads who dress like this, ride and have accidents are affecting the rest of us. They are affecting your insurance, your ACC levies, your taxes, and the availability of medical treatment for those who actually deserve it, and you never know, that might be your one day.
OK, you want no more motorcycling at all (with or without gear)? No car driving either? No getting out of bed in the morning (you might trip up)?

[ambler]

through paying life insurance premiums you are contributing towards my replacement motorcycle i crashed, riding drunk. thank you.

maybe your not as smart as your mum told you
The point is that life insurance is optional.
I don't have any life insurance, but if I was paying for a policy which supported 'smart' people who crash their bikes while drunk, I have the choice to dump it. ACC doesn't give you that option.

[swbarnett]

True, but part of riding is that we accept we are much more vulnerable than car drivers and we mitigate that danger by wearing appropriate gear in the same way that car drivers are supposed to mitigate their danger by wearing a seatbelt. I wouldn't tell another motorcyclist what to wear unless they asked ... but I do have the right to go "tut tut" to myself when I see someone wantonly exposing their body to additional and unneccesary harm.
Even riding with gear carries a greater risk than car driving. By your reasoning this is enough reason to ban it.

[swbarnett]

That would be fine. Except when they come off they expect ME to pay for expensive stuff like Ambulances, A & E's, trauma units and skin grafts. Why the hell should I if they are too stupid to do the right thing in the first place.
This is actually one of the points I was trying to make. Don't tell someone what to do because you won't pay for it. Just don't pay for it.


Lots and lots of people bleat on about "personal freedom" and all that shit, but concomitant to that is "personal responsibility": the obverse of the coin if you will.
Exactly, "PERSONAL" responsibility. I'm not responsible for you and you're not responsible for me.


Sure, be a tool, dont wear a helmet, eye protection. In fact you can pull a wheelie at 150 kph wearing only a divers mask and a pink G string, and your ballet slippers. Just dont expect me to pick up the pieces if it all goes to shit.
I wouldn't.


People thing "Oh the gummint will sort it out" or "the gummint will pay"... hospital care for the terminally stupid? not on my dime.
Who's to say what's stupid and what's not?

[Dave_G]

OK, you want no more motorcycling at all (with or without gear)? No car driving either? No getting out of bed in the morning (you might trip up)?[/QUOTE]


The problem with you is that you regard this issue as something that only affects you and no-one else. The individual freedom bullshit was touted by the anti-helmet law brigade when they first came in as well. Likewise the opposition to the 250-cc learners limit, that too involved much bleating on about personal freedoms…blah blah. Its perhaps worth it for you to recognise that motorcycles make up 2% of registered vehicles in this country. That means 98% aren’t bikes, they are something else. Guess what, laws are generally passed to suit the majority, meaning the minority gets screwed (that would be us sport, people who ride bikes). When the majority get pissed off enough, they start passing laws to put the minorities in their place, so if dickheads keep running up avoidable medical and other costs for the rest of the public to pay, the next law will be aimed at stopping that situation e.g. compulsory approved protective clothing. When that doesn’t work it will be horsepower limits, then cc limits and finally bikes all together, that’s the way they think…dollars and cents, reduce their own costs by doing something that doesn’t cost them at all, it costs us. So extract your head from its current dark location and realise you are part of society and as such your personal freedoms also come with a hidden cost, its called personal responsibility. Either you and everyone else who is raving on about “personal freedom” starts showing some or the rest of society is going to deliver a message to you and every other rider, one that no-one wants. Given that I am one and I'd like to continue to ride the machine of my choice, I'd kind of take that very badly, particularly when its a minority of the minority that are the dickheads, if thats you, so be it.

[Usarka]

http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/NewPDFs/Motorcycle-Crash-Factsheet-July-07.pdf

Percentage of accidents
car driver at fault: 38%
rider at fault: 26%
single vehicle (bike): 26%
partial/no fault: 10%

Bikers are responsible for 52% of all bike relates accidents.


For more serious crashes, the motorcyclist was more likely to have the primary responsibility for the crash. The motorcycle rider had the primary responsibility for nearly three-quarters of fatal crashes compared to about half for minor injury crashes.

can we all have a whinge about all the bikers that crash and how they add to our ACC levies?

[Oakie]

motorcyclists not wearing gear? not breaking the law, not your problem. FUCK OFF.

As much as it's everyone's right to wear what they like, it is also everyone's right to have an opinion. Now follow this next bit closely as this is hard to word:
It occurs to me that those here who abuse others for having an 'all the gear' attitude and wishing others had the same ... are doing exactly the same as those of us who have that safety attitude and wish it on others ... so neither party has the moral high ground as both sides are trying to force their values on the other.

And I won't fuck off. I was here first.:bleh:

[Usarka]

It occurs to me that those here who abuse others for having an 'all the gear' attitude and wishing others had the same ... are doing exactly the same as those of us who have that safety attitude and wish it on others ... so neither party has the moral high ground as both sides are trying to force their values on the other.

And I won't fuck off. I was here first.:bleh:

but the atgatt people started it :girlfight:

[Oakie]

but the atgatt people started it :girlfight:

But of course they started it. The 'Right to Road Rash' people couldn't just jump up and down in righteous indignation until they'd actually been provoked.

And in case anyone thinks they have me pegged,...no I'm not an ATGATT. For evidence of that you only need to go here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=53960&page=71 and check out post 1064.

[fergie]

Iv'e had road rash, it bloody hurts!i do not ride my bike without correct gear.full stop, end of discussion, no exceptions.

[Tank]

I think part of the problem that is causing all the arguments here are that there is more than one reason that people dont were safety gear.

First there is the "Freedom of choice" gang. Personally I dont agree with them - but they are big boys and girls so let them be and should they have an off - well they made the choice - they pay the price.

However Im sure if they get injuries that could have been averted with safety gear that they dont have a little "bugger - I wish I was wearing that stuff" thought or two.

The second group is where I believe the original posters comments were aimed at - New riders, just starting out. For them I believe that its not so much a matter of choice - or an individual statement of freedom, its the fact that they are new and have not thought it out.

Now some of them *may* choose not to wear gear (my neighbour is a case in point), but I believe if they had more training etc that they would at least think it thru and make an informed decision. Most people I believe would choose to wear at least 'more' protective clothing than the aforementioned pink g-string.

[jigyjig]

As much as it's everyone's right to wear what they like, it is also everyone's right to have an opinion. Now follow this next bit closely as this is hard to word:
It occurs to me that those here who abuse others for having an 'all the gear' attitude and wishing others had the same ... are doing exactly the same as those of us who have that safety attitude and wish it on others ... so neither party has the moral high ground as both sides are trying to force their values on the other.

And I won't fuck off. I was here first.:bleh:

You misread, misunderstand and misinterpret.

I am not concerned whether you wear any safety gear or not, Ride in a gorilla suit for the little I care, (it would be quite amusing) When you feel its your solem job to go round telling people they are wearing / not wearing what is your idea of ideal safety gear, then I get annoyed.

do you tell every smoker you see they are ruining there lives and taking your tax dollars, do you post it on internet forums that you saw yet another person smoking today? same with drinking etc.

now fuck off your moral high ground and stay there. you lot are as bad as mormons

[HenryDorsetCase]

Who's to say what's stupid and what's not?

Uh, me. And when I am firstly King of New zealand then Ruler of the world, what I say will go. and if you dont like it you will be free to leave and find another world.

You wouldnt want to get on my list would you? the list of who is against the wall when the revolution comes.

and you will get on that list if I catch you doing wheelies in your pink G string again.

:)

[jrandom]

do you tell every smoker you see they are ruining there lives and taking your tax dollars

Yup!

:D

Now, can I borrow a durry bro?

[PuppetMaster]

[url]can we all have a whinge about all the bikers that crash and how they add to our ACC levies?


Yeah right. And if there were no bike accidents, those fees would be less, I dont think so small puppy......

Forget the no gear argument. Each to there own.
Someone should organise a nude protest ride against fully geared up bikers.

[Oakie]

You misread, misunderstand and misinterpret.

I am not concerned whether you wear any safety gear or not, Ride in a gorilla suit for the little I care, (it would be quite amusing) When you feel its your solem job to go round telling people they are wearing / not wearing what is your idea of ideal safety gear, then I get annoyed.

do you tell every smoker you see they are ruining there lives and taking your tax dollars, do you post it on internet forums that you saw yet another person smoking today? same with drinking etc.

now fuck off your moral high ground and stay there. you lot are as bad as mormons

Mormons! Funny you should mention them. Don't their missionaries wear like an all over underwear thing that's supposed to protect their virtue?

I've never actually told anyone they're wearing insufficient gear and I don't think I ever would without them first asking for my opinion. I can still think it to myself though and express a general feeling that people should wear it even though it is their right not to.

[Oakie]

Someone should organise a nude protest ride against fully geared up bikers.

Refer to my post about 6 posts back.

[jigyjig]

cool keep it that way. no one likes a preaching mormon. or worse those hari krishna's dressed in sheets that hand out books in cuba mall,

[Oakie]

cool keep it that way. no one likes a preaching mormon. or worse those hari krishna's dressed in sheets that hand out books in cuba mall,
Hari Krishnas. I bought one of their books on the street once just out of curiousity. Read about as far as the chapter that said people should have sex only when they want to make a baby and not have sex for any other reason or at any other time.
Yeah right! Even the catholics get to do it for fun!

[avgas]

I find it funny that there is a thread about this - yet i couldn't find any of these people a few weeks ago.....when i was GIVING gear away.
ffs

[breakaway]

Yes, this thread was originially aimed at those on 250s (presumably new riders). I never used to wear proper gear - When I got my RG150, I rode to uni in hoody and shorts. Then I realised how easy it actually is to come off. Now I never go out without gloves / jacket, no matter how short the ride.

If I didn't have gear on when I came off at Port Waikato, I'd be requiring reconstructive knee surgery among other things. Sure tax dollars would pay for it, sweet as, but I'd be out of action for many months and possibly end up with a life long disability. Now THAT is shithouse.

Personally I don't really mind about taxes etc, It's just that it isn't very plesant having skinned knees / hands, fucked kneecaps etc. Just spend 5 minutes of your time gearing up and gearing down and you'll save yourself a world of hurt. Don't see the downside to that.

Each to their own I suppose

[swbarnett]

The problem with you is that you regard this issue as something that only affects you and no-one else. ...
Where do you draw the line? Under your thinking motorcycling itself should be banned. Do you really want that?

BTW: If you'd seen my earlier posts you'd know that I do understand the principle of personal responsibility, you can't have freedom without responsibility and you can't have responsibility without freedom. And I am of the ATGATT brigade, I just don't ram my beliefs down others throats.