New Triumph Street Triple suspension conundrum

[Devil]

Hey suspension guru's. I've taken the Street Triple for a blat and love it to bits... well... everything except the suspension. I've had a quick check, Ohlins doesn't have anything listed (except for stuff for the Daytona 675) and WP only have a 2006 guide up, and the Street Triple isn't included.

Does anyone know who might be offering suspension solutions for this bike?

The stock suspension is completely unadjustable except for preload on the rear and thats it. Both the front and rear felt a bit underdamped to me...

[vifferman]

According to the reviews, the Street Triple uses the 675's frame and swingarm (with the pivot for the latter mounted 2mm lower), so shocks for the 675 should fit.
If so, the Ohlins ones for the 675 should work. Also, Elka do shocks for the 675 (http://www.elkasuspension.com/products/motorcyclesmodels-triumph.html) at a reasonable price.

[TDC]

Hey suspension guru's. I've taken the Street Triple for a blat and love it to bits... well... everything except the suspension. I've had a quick check, Ohlins doesn't have anything listed (except for stuff for the Daytona 675) and WP only have a 2006 guide up, and the Street Triple isn't included.

Does anyone know who might be offering suspension solutions for this bike?

The stock suspension is completely unadjustable except for preload on the rear and thats it. Both the front and rear felt a bit underdamped to me...

Your right! Like many Triumph models the stock suspension solution leaves rather a lot of room for improvement.

While there is no "official" Ohlins listing for this model, it is relatively easy to build one from genuine Ohlins parts.

[TDC]

According to the reviews, the Street Triple uses the 675's frame and swingarm (with the pivot for the latter mounted 2mm lower), so shocks for the 675 should fit.
If so, the Ohlins ones for the 675 should work.

I'm quite sure that the suspension linkage has some subtle differences, but no matter the difference in seating position and resultant changes in weight distribution ensure that a shock from the 675 would be a poor choice for this model indeed, even though it would seem to be very close.....

[El Dopa]

I'm quite sure that the suspension linkage has some subtle differences, but no matter the difference in seating position and resultant changes in weight distribution ensure that a shock from the 675 would be a poor choice for this model indeed, even though it would seem to be very close.....

Would you mind expanding on that a bit? I would have thought it would be a half-decent upgrade, but I don't know much about it. Talk me though it slowly.

[TDC]

Would you mind expanding on that a bit? I would have thought it would be a half-decent upgrade, but I don't know much about it. Talk me though it slowly.

Sorry for the slow reply, been rather a bit busy the last few days.

I like your phrase "half-decent" a lot of things get done half-pie / decent etc usually in the name of cost, which is usually just the perceived cost and not the real cost anyhow.

In this case the 675 Daytona has a quite aggressive riding position with a large proportion of the riders weight forward, all in all quite a light weight package where the riders weight is a considerable chunk of the laden machines total weight.

The Street Triple may or may not have a different suspension linkage or lower swing arm pivot, I have not been able to reliably confirm any of these currently contradictory statements, but it seems likely that the swing arm pivot is down by 2mm, and the rocker is changed to accommodate this change and provide a different linkage ratio. The dynamics of the bike are quite different, the dry weights are close, but importantly the weight distribution is changed quite a lot and changed more if you like for bigger riders.

These changes in weight distribution should be reflected in quite different spring rates (softer in the front, stiffer in the rear) and valving changes both front an rear reflective of the spring and weight distribution changes. If this was not done you would expect that the bike will have an over sprung front end that will prove to be vague at best, and probably quite harsh in action, the rear will be over soft in action and prone to wallow with little provocation in bumpy corners.

Also any changes to the swing arm pivot height and or linkage will require damper changes to manage the very different inputs to the dampers and chassis as a whole.

From the amount of inquiry I have fielded in the last couple of days on this very model it seems fair to assume that the cost monitors have been out in force and it would seem very possible / likely that the daytona suspenders have made their way to the new bike with little if any change. This means what was average on the daytona could well be approaching horrid on the new machine because of the different weight distribution, chassis geometry etc.

Given the colorful descriptions about the suspenders of this model, and the rest I have heard about this bike which in all other ways seems to attract a fairly high amount of praise I would think its only a matter of time until Ohlins have a solution for this machine. In the mean time it is very possible to build a custom damper to meet the needs of this bike and rider.

So buying any another lower end damper designed (hopefully) for a different machine will more often than not have poor to dangerous consequences. Its either the right thing for the job, or its not! Close enough when your life is at stake should never be considered.....

[El Dopa]

Excellent. Thankyou.

[HenryDorsetCase]

all of the tests Ive read (Cycle World, Performance Bikes, online, and I think Two Wheels) comment about exactly the same thing...

Now, riddle me this:

You've bought a Street triple for the RRP of $15k. By the time you have a new shock in it (say $1600), and have rebuilt the forks (say $1200) plus gotten rid of the pipe (heavy as) with the "available" Arrow low pipe (not to mention the full titanium Akrapovic which is apparently in the works), all of a sudden you've spent $20000.

Look at what else you can buy for that money: including a Speed Triple (almost). a brand new Buell. various Moto Guzzis: any Jap litrebike.

it made me think anyway.

as Ive said elsewhere, Im so conflicted about my new bike its unbelievable

[TDC]

all of the tests Ive read (Cycle World, Performance Bikes, online, and I think Two Wheels) comment about exactly the same thing...

Now, riddle me this:

You've bought a Street triple for the RRP of $15k. By the time you have a new shock in it (say $1600), and have rebuilt the forks (say $1200) plus gotten rid of the pipe (heavy as) with the "available" Arrow low pipe (not to mention the full titanium Akrapovic which is apparently in the works), all of a sudden you've spent $20000.

Look at what else you can buy for that money: including a Speed Triple (almost). a brand new Buell. various Moto Guzzis: any Jap litrebike.

it made me think anyway.

as Ive said elsewhere, Im so conflicted about my new bike its unbelievable

Yea that true, BUT! At least you will have a safe and enjoyable bike that doesn't eat tyres that you want to ride every chance you get.

The alternative is a more expensive bike that still needs suspension work....

[Devil]

I've spoken with Ohlins Sweden. They will be providing suspension for the Street Triple from 2008 (they could not be more specific with dates/models).

From riding the thing, you dont need to ditch the exhausts (low priority for me) because it sounds damn sexy as is.

Now, to screw a deal on a trade...

[El Dopa]

Sorry for the slow reply, been rather a bit busy the last few days.

[snip]

...for the job, or its not! Close enough when your life is at stake should never be considered.....

OK, another hypothetical question for you as you seem to know what you're talking about re the striple:

What are your thoughts on swapping a daytona 675 front end onto the striple? As far as I know the front end geometry is the same, and you're arguably getting better brakes and adjustability if you make the sawp.

Thoughts?

[TDC]

OK, another hypothetical question for you as you seem to know what you're talking about re the striple:

What are your thoughts on swapping a daytona 675 front end onto the striple? As far as I know the front end geometry is the same, and you're arguably getting better brakes and adjustability if you make the sawp.

Thoughts?

Ummm, Aside from the mechanical fitting assumptions (diameters lengths spacings etc) if you are prepared to have the front end revalved and resprung to suit the new requirements, why not

[HenryDorsetCase]

cost a bunch of money wunnit?

and you would need the forks rebuilt to take account of the weight changes and no fairing and different riding position, surely?.

would be interesting to get a rider on a St triple and two sets of scales, and the same rider on the same scales on a Daytona: just to see what difference it made (and thats only static sitting there weight distribution.) dynamic would be different again.

plus if you did that you would have to do the shock as well.

[TDC]

cost a bunch of money wunnit?

and you would need the forks rebuilt to take account of the weight changes and no fairing and different riding position, surely?.

would be interesting to get a rider on a St triple and two sets of scales, and the same rider on the same scales on a Daytona: just to see what difference it made (and thats only static sitting there weight distribution.) dynamic would be different again.

plus if you did that you would have to do the shock as well.

You observations re static and dynamic weight distribution are right on the money!

If the forks were a bolt in?? it would be no worse that fixing what is already there.

Triumph tends to be one of those brands that really responds well to suspension upgrades, as stock there is quite some room for improvement.

[Big Dave]

There is not 'that' much wrong with the rear Kyaba, apart from the fact that they are usually shagged under 20,000km, by which time an ohlins will surely.....Big C spanners to adjust the pre-load.

On the front you would get away with Ohins or Race Tech springs and cartridge emulators.

Turn it into a gem under a $K.

The stumpy exhaust sound brilliant.
My bit is in the KR out today.

[Devil]

My bit is in the KR out today.

I shall seek it out, just incase you've inadvertantly hurt my feelings.

Besides, how the hell did you get your XL carcass on a Street Triple?

[Robert Taylor]

I've spoken with Ohlins Sweden. They will be providing suspension for the Street Triple from 2008 (they could not be more specific with dates/models).

From riding the thing, you dont need to ditch the exhausts (low priority for me) because it sounds damn sexy as is.

Now, to screw a deal on a trade...

Its important to note several things here

1) All enquiries from private customers are channeled back through the recognised distributor, correct etiquette. In this case I was forwarded the e-mail enquiry whilst in transit overseas and was able to respond with the answer that Ohlins gave me

2) There will indeed be a listing but this depends on availability of a bike for Ohlins to measure, develop on dyno and on road, ensure that there are at minimum hundreds of sales etc etc. Ohlins are very pedantic about the shock working properly to their high standards, as opposed to manufacturers of budget shocks that do little better than fit the bike. ''Reasonable price'' shocks dont always deliver reasonable performance. Accessing donor bikes is not always that easy because the bike manufacturers dont like to admit that oem suspension is often woeful

3) WP in all fairness make some good shocks but their supply is to be polite not that good. This is likely to get worse as they appear to be retrenching towards oem supply only to their owners KTM. Even given that the new up-spec KTM racing ATV has Ohlins standard, as do their 125 and 250cc road race teams.

4) I have just returned from an Ohlins distributor conference in Italy. Present was the CEO of Ohlins Germany ( a subsidiary of Ohlins AB Sweden ) one Mr Wim Peters, the man who started WP suspension and subsequently sold out to KTM. This is an absolute coup.

5)Sorry, I just dont rate Elka, they have failed to gain traction in the road market as there is not enough depth of historical knowlege / experience. And what is the backup?

5) While all and sundry will speculate about quick fixes for this model sometimes it is just better to wait for properly developed and tested product. It is not that a company like Ohlins drags its heels, there has to be enough worldwide demand, production capacity etc in amongst a plethora of models. Everything is not as simple as it seems to many casual observers.

[Devil]

I, for one, will be happy to wait for the ohlins goodies. Best to let someone else do all the research work instead of trial and error myself!

Oh and Robert, I sent that query straight to ohlins because I knew you'd have to ask them anyway! Saving you a step!

[Robert Taylor]

I, for one, will be happy to wait for the ohlins goodies. Best to let someone else do all the research work instead of trial and error myself!

Oh and Robert, I sent that query straight to ohlins because I knew you'd have to ask them anyway! Saving you a step!

No problem, I was away and as it worked out I received the message more quickly in this instance than if you had sent to my standard e-mail address

[El Dopa]

Ummm, Aside from the mechanical fitting assumptions (diameters lengths spacings etc) if you are prepared to have the front end revalved and resprung to suit the new requirements, why not

I am assuming (cos I haven't read otherwise) that the fork diameter (and spacing in the triples), the front wheel and front tyre size are exactly the same. The frame is as far as I know exactly the same.

For precision, my question should really have been: Assuming all the mechanical variables (sizes, etc) are identical, is there anything that you as a suspension guru can point up to a know-nothing munter such as myself that I would not otherwise have thought of? Much the same as you flagged up for the rear shock.


cost a bunch of money wunnit?

Yep. And we are curently in El Dopa's private fantasy land. Where the ohlins rear shock I order with my imaginary money (same account as I used to pay for the bike) is delivered personally by the Swedish volleyball team. All of whose dads own breweries.

[TDC]

For precision, my question should really have been: Assuming all the mechanical variables (sizes, etc) are identical, is there anything that you as a suspension guru can point up to a know-nothing munter such as myself that I would not otherwise have thought of? Much the same as you flagged up for the rear shock.


Its really just a matter of balance. That is balance of the front and rear ends set in keeping with the dynamics of the bike.

So what we would do in this case (assuming you were happy with the average budget priced fork internals) is revalve them to provide the correct response given the weight of the bike and rider, and weight distribution of the same. Pretty much the some job as is required in the rear, just different parts and processes

[Big Dave]

I shall seek it out, just incase you've inadvertantly hurt my feelings.



Pretty much the same as you - in 750 words. I'll be out at Big Boys Toys next 2 afternoons - I'll sling you a copy.




Besides, how the hell did you get your XL carcass on a Street Triple?

Comedy.

Actually not too bad. Strap a motor to your butt and go, type stuff.
Couldn't tour - could stunt.