Power vs Handling (another biased poll)

[GSVR]

Two brand spanking SV650s identical in every way. Brakes, Power, Weight. For the sake of this poll we will assume riders are of the same weight and using the same tyres. The race to see which bike is quicker will be around the Manfeild long track which favours a better handling bike over one with more power.

Owner of the first bike (Glen Williams) takes his to Robert Taylor and gets the works no expense spared suspension without changing the forks for GSXR ones. So its a TTX shock and racetec emulators and Ohlins springs. All set up taking into account
the riders weight. Robert has done a few of these now and reacons this is the best yet and apart from putting in a GSXR front can't get any better! Its also had a steering dampner fitted to further help the handling.
The Williams bike weighs 172kg (Suzuki lied about the weight) and hes been on the pies and chocotate and now weighs 75kg and is making 72HP (Put a standard SV on a dyno and his is about what they make)

Owner of the second bike (Drew Mair) removes his motor and sends it to Ray Clee instructing him that he wants as much reliable horsepower as Ray can get from the motor. While the motors away Drew being the mechanically talented soul he is builds some light subframes and removes as much weight from the bike as a man with his talents can. The motor comes back and is making an incredible 8 more ponys. Drew has managed to pull 15 kgs off the bike (He's not as talented as I thought)
The Mair bike weighs 155kg plus 75kg for the rider ( Vicsters had him on a strict diet) and is making a wooping 80HP its a bit of a handful doing a bit bit of a headshake coming onto the front straight almost every lap (front wheel may be a bit out of balance). Suspension is bog standard.



Both bikes line up on the start finish in perfect conditions having had a whole days practice to get used to the bikes. Both riders are feeling like they could beat Valentino. Both bikes have identical brakes and pads.

[HDTboy]

Glen beats Drew every time.

What about if Frosty went and put down lap times for each bike? Then there would be no bias for rider skill and preference.

[Patch]

Whose Frosty??

[FROSTY]

What about C- STANDARD bike is given to SHAUN HARRIS
Who takes the engine and optimises what its got with cam timing exc takes the standard suspension and optimises what it has -then fits a second hand gsxr600 shock to the back.
WITH THE MONEY NOT SPENT the rider invests in race training a and as many race meetings as possible both within New Zealand and overseas

[codgyoleracer]

The One lap race goes like this:
Drew takes full advantage of his lighter weight & higher horsepower machine & gets the jump of the line at Manfield. At the same moment another silver K3 SV650 is spotted starting at the pitlane track entrance & tipping into the first corner (its Gary H, pulling a sneaky on the boys). Gary leades into the esses with drew 100m behind & Glen still incredibly trailing another 15 behind that after being sidetracked by drews missus standing on the outside of turn one & flashing him. Gary makes a hash of the infield left hander & Drew runs to far to the inside & looses the front on the white line. Fortunatly he is so full of pure & unadulterated talent (just like his brother) he manages to catch it on his knee for about a 20ft front end slidee. Williams sneaks up another 5mtrs on him. Gary H enters the hairpin but cant carry the corner speed because he's got both tyres fitted backwards (to save a few bucks). Drew & Williams get within 25mtrs of him. The sheer power of the Drew bike now takes control & he pulls most of this gap back on Gary by Higgins. The sly fox Williams has managed to catch Drews slipstream & Drew unbeknown has dragged Glens old arse along with him up the same straight. Drew goes for the big "up the inside pass" on Gary H into Higgins, but screws it up - because his mostly stock front forks bottom out & he skips past Gary & runs wide. (whilst up at the top of the corner - he takes the opportunity to check the trench that Jimmy dug there a few months ago in the dirt). Gary H, see's this as his opportunity & is already reading the headlines in the paper about his big win. The codgy old fart Williams is yet to make a mistake though & waits (for what seems an eternity) for Gary H to get on the gas (& get out of the way through Higgins) & then passes him easily on the inside exiting Higgins. (this is due to the sheer drive provided by the best god-damm shock absorber ever made in the entire known universe - The Trex Ohlins of course & has ABSOLUTLY nothing to do with rider abilty). In the meantime Drews wide line has actually allowed him to run a very quick high exit line & he blows by Gary H with smoke pouring of the rear tyre , whilst being sideways & on one wheel, + taking time to flick GaryH the bird.
Williams has a 7 mtr lead out of higgins over Drew - whilst Gary with tears in his eyes "does a Biaggi" & starts looking down at his machine (hoping to find a fault or excuse for later on).
Drew's stonking engine rails him up behind Williams & he passes him on the outside into the final sweeper, its the type of move made by the young & exuberant - however it sticks & he cuts back across the front wheel of Williams with inches to spare. (or so he thinks.....) . Williams saw the move early enough to shut the gas & run himself up a little wider in the corner & go for the supreme drive out of the corner. (once again taking advantage of the best god-damm rear shock absorber made in the entire univ.........that only spoilt rich fucks can afford.) Drew has to pay the price for his wide entry & starts to run wide from the apex & thus limits his ability to put down his prodigious horsepower (& talent) to the ground. Williams is apexing later & has it pinned to the stops. Williams sneaks the lead by a bike length on the exit & runs "un-intentionaly wide" to screw up Drews exit line, - but Drew's seen these sneaky tricks from Williams before & stays on the gas whilst riding the white line on the edge of the track with gay abandon. Drews 80hp is now paying back bigtime & he's hauling up on williams at a great rate of knots, The finish line looms & ....................................


The end of this story will be provided at some later date.

[skelstar]

I think Drew has already proved what he can do on a standard bike (with Ohlins rear and front missing some suss parts) against Glen. I thought you were there too Garry? ;)

[GSVR]

Glen beats Drew every time.
He didn't beat him in the Cliffhanger Hillclimb


Whose Frosty??
I think he mans Crusty (Australian Superbike rider)



What about C- STANDARD bike is given to SHAUN HARRIS
Who takes the engine and optimises what its got with cam timing exc takes the standard suspension and optimises what it has -then fits a second hand gsxr600 shock to the back.
WITH THE MONEY NOT SPENT the rider invests in race training a and as many race meetings as possible both within New Zealand and overseas

Robert Taylor wont be sending you any comission. Know anyone that wants a GSXR shock?

[GSVR]

[QUOTE=codgyoleracer;1271521
The end of this story will be provided at some later date.[/QUOTE]

The pretend race is actually a 10 lapper around the full circuit.

Seems people might be voting on the fact your riding the handling bike and ignoring the fact it actually doesn't handle that well as its carrying round a sack of spuds and accelerates like golden syrup from a tin in winter.

[skelstar]

BTW - I chose Mair bike, but not because of the big power, but because it was his first meeting on a bike he hadn't ridden before.

[Deano]

He didn't beat him in the Cliffhanger Hillclimb


Glen wasn't there so the jury is out on that one..........



Seems people might be voting on the fact your riding the handling bike and ignoring the fact it actually doesn't handle that well as its carrying round a sack of spuds and accelerates like golden syrup from a tin in winter.

Ummm, I might respectfully suggest that Drew weighs more than Glen.....


BTW - I chose Mair bike, but not because of the big power,

I should hope not - I think Glen has shown that HP is not the be all and end all. (Greymouth street races)

[koba]

What about C- STANDARD bike is given to SHAUN HARRIS
Who takes the engine and optimises what its got with cam timing exc takes the standard suspension and optimises what it has -then fits a second hand gsxr600 shock to the back.
WITH THE MONEY NOT SPENT the rider invests in race training a and as many race meetings as possible both within New Zealand and overseas

Said like a man who runs trackdays :Pokey:

[GSVR]

Glen wasn't there so the jury is out on that one..........

Ummm, I might respectfully suggest that Drew weighs more than Glen.....

I should hope not - I think Glen has shown that HP is not the be all and end all. (Greymouth street races)

1/ Sorry HDTboy was right Glen beats Drew every time.
2/ Did you read the post. For the sake of this poll they both weigh 75kg. But Drew is on a much lighter bike with a wooping 8 more horses.
3/He also won the F2 race in the first round of the Vic series.

I'm not trying to point out that handling doesn't matter I'm saying that having a bit more power than the opposition will have the same effect.

Example: Stoner in Round1 of this years MGP at Quatar. Rossi was killing him around the corners and Stoner just blew past him on the straights and went on to win easy.

[codgyoleracer]

Example: Stoner in Round1 of this years MGP at Quatar. Rossi was killing him around the corners and Stoner just blew past him on the straights and went on to win easy.

My best guess on the Stoner/Ducati advantage is that it is mostley down to the superior traction control electrickery & Bridgestone tyre grip on corner exit. The momentum from this early gain in the corner exit speed & the resultant gains down the straight were clear to see.
A good example of this in New Zealand is "castrol corner" onto the backstraight at Pukekohe - where a 2kph increase in exit speed - results in a 10kph higher top speed on the same HP bike(this is on a 600).
Interesting aye !

[GSVR]

My best guess on the Stoner/Ducati advantage is that it is mostley down to the superior traction control electrickery & Bridgestone tyre grip on corner exit. The momentum from this early gain in the corner exit speed & the resultant gains down the straight were clear to see.
A good example of this in New Zealand is "castrol corner" onto the backstraight at Pukekohe - where a 2kph increase in exit speed - results in a 10kph higher top speed on the same HP bike(this is on a 600).
Interesting aye !

Ok maybe not the best example then. I was always having trouble with the back wheel on the SV lighting up coming out of the corners so the massive HP I had I couldn't put down on the track also.

Drew would have the same issue getting drive out of corners with his bike?

[codgyoleracer]

Hi Gary
That woul dbe because you were always running those dodgy second hand tyres...........Who was it that was giving them to you ?, Oh Yeah - that was me......

[GSVR]

Hi Gary
That woul dbe because you were always running those dodgy second hand tyres...........Who was it that was giving them to you ?, Oh Yeah - that was me......

I thought they were good and I always freshened them up with plenty of CRC and Diesel before racedays.

[Drew]

I want the handling bike!!! Only cos Glen's ridden it tho, he's my hero:yes:

[GSVR]

I want the handling bike!!! Only cos Glen's ridden it tho, he's my hero:yes:

Drew I put you on the bike on the wrong bike? What can I say. Do you want the injection remapped and some nitro for another 6 horses?

[Drew]

Drew I put you on the bike on the wrong bike? What can I say. Do you want the injection remapped and some nitro for another 6 horses?

Given the short comings of my riding style, it doesn't matter what I'm riding till I've got my shit in one sock.

[Storm]

Maybe you could lose another couple kg by shaking the shit out of your socks? :bleh:

[Nicksta]

I choose the Mair..... only cos the Mair blood harnesses super powers that cannot be defined.... its that something else... you put a Mair on a bike... i put my money on that Mair... simple!

[codgyoleracer]

I want the handling bike!!! Only cos Glen's ridden it tho, he's my hero:yes:

I want the Drew bike, - but only because I wanna pull the engine apart & find out how much more Clee knows about engines than me. (better have a pretty big notebook handy) ;)

[cowpoos]

The One lap race goes like this:
Drew takes full advantage of his lighter weight & higher horsepower machine & gets the jump of the line at Manfield. At the same moment another silver K3 SV650 is spotted starting at the pitlane track entrance & tipping into the first corner (its Gary H, pulling a sneaky on the boys). Gary leades into the esses with drew 100m behind & Glen still incredibly trailing another 15 behind that after being sidetracked by drews missus standing on the outside of turn one & flashing him. Gary makes a hash of the infield left hander & Drew runs to far to the inside & looses the front on the white line. Fortunatly he is so full of pure & unadulterated talent (just like his brother) he manages to catch it on his knee for about a 20ft front end slidee. Williams sneaks up another 5mtrs on him. Gary H enters the hairpin but cant carry the corner speed because he's got both tyres fitted backwards (to save a few bucks). Drew & Williams get within 25mtrs of him. The sheer power of the Drew bike now takes control & he pulls most of this gap back on Gary by Higgins. The sly fox Williams has managed to catch Drews slipstream & Drew unbeknown has dragged Glens old arse along with him up the same straight. Drew goes for the big "up the inside pass" on Gary H into Higgins, but screws it up - because his mostly stock front forks bottom out & he skips past Gary & runs wide. (whilst up at the top of the corner - he takes the opportunity to check the trench that Jimmy dug there a few months ago in the dirt). Gary H, see's this as his opportunity & is already reading the headlines in the paper about his big win. The codgy old fart Williams is yet to make a mistake though & waits (for what seems an eternity) for Gary H to get on the gas (& get out of the way through Higgins) & then passes him easily on the inside exiting Higgins. (this is due to the sheer drive provided by the best god-damm shock absorber ever made in the entire known universe - The Trex Ohlins of course & has ABSOLUTLY nothing to do with rider abilty). In the meantime Drews wide line has actually allowed him to run a very quick high exit line & he blows by Gary H with smoke pouring of the rear tyre , whilst being sideways & on one wheel, + taking time to flick GaryH the bird.
Williams has a 7 mtr lead out of higgins over Drew - whilst Gary with tears in his eyes "does a Biaggi" & starts looking down at his machine (hoping to find a fault or excuse for later on).
Drew's stonking engine rails him up behind Williams & he passes him on the outside into the final sweeper, its the type of move made by the young & exuberant - however it sticks & he cuts back across the front wheel of Williams with inches to spare. (or so he thinks.....) . Williams saw the move early enough to shut the gas & run himself up a little wider in the corner & go for the supreme drive out of the corner. (once again taking advantage of the best god-damm rear shock absorber made in the entire univ.........that only spoilt rich fucks can afford.) Drew has to pay the price for his wide entry & starts to run wide from the apex & thus limits his ability to put down his prodigious horsepower (& talent) to the ground. Williams is apexing later & has it pinned to the stops. Williams sneaks the lead by a bike length on the exit & runs "un-intentionaly wide" to screw up Drews exit line, - but Drew's seen these sneaky tricks from Williams before & stays on the gas whilst riding the white line on the edge of the track with gay abandon. Drews 80hp is now paying back bigtime & he's hauling up on williams at a great rate of knots, The finish line looms & ....................................


The end of this story will be provided at some later date.

Still waiting Glenn......

[gixerracer]

Glen is a very good rider and drew sucks the arse of dead animals and also he is a shit rider so i dont see the point of this poll!
The One lap race goes like this:
Drew takes full advantage of his lighter weight & higher horsepower machine & gets the jump of the line at Manfield. At the same moment another silver K3 SV650 is spotted starting at the pitlane track entrance & tipping into the first corner (its Gary H, pulling a sneaky on the boys). Gary leades into the esses with drew 100m behind & Glen still incredibly trailing another 15 behind that after being sidetracked by drews missus standing on the outside of turn one & flashing him. Gary makes a hash of the infield left hander & Drew runs to far to the inside & looses the front on the white line. Fortunatly he is so full of pure & unadulterated talent (just like his brother) he manages to catch it on his knee for about a 20ft front end slidee. Williams sneaks up another 5mtrs on him. Gary H enters the hairpin but cant carry the corner speed because he's got both tyres fitted backwards (to save a few bucks). Drew & Williams get within 25mtrs of him. The sheer power of the Drew bike now takes control & he pulls most of this gap back on Gary by Higgins. The sly fox Williams has managed to catch Drews slipstream & Drew unbeknown has dragged Glens old arse along with him up the same straight. Drew goes for the big "up the inside pass" on Gary H into Higgins, but screws it up - because his mostly stock front forks bottom out & he skips past Gary & runs wide. (whilst up at the top of the corner - he takes the opportunity to check the trench that Jimmy dug there a few months ago in the dirt). Gary H, see's this as his opportunity & is already reading the headlines in the paper about his big win. The codgy old fart Williams is yet to make a mistake though & waits (for what seems an eternity) for Gary H to get on the gas (& get out of the way through Higgins) & then passes him easily on the inside exiting Higgins. (this is due to the sheer drive provided by the best god-damm shock absorber ever made in the entire known universe - The Trex Ohlins of course & has ABSOLUTLY nothing to do with rider abilty). In the meantime Drews wide line has actually allowed him to run a very quick high exit line & he blows by Gary H with smoke pouring of the rear tyre , whilst being sideways & on one wheel, + taking time to flick GaryH the bird.
Williams has a 7 mtr lead out of higgins over Drew - whilst Gary with tears in his eyes "does a Biaggi" & starts looking down at his machine (hoping to find a fault or excuse for later on).
Drew's stonking engine rails him up behind Williams & he passes him on the outside into the final sweeper, its the type of move made by the young & exuberant - however it sticks & he cuts back across the front wheel of Williams with inches to spare. (or so he thinks.....) . Williams saw the move early enough to shut the gas & run himself up a little wider in the corner & go for the supreme drive out of the corner. (once again taking advantage of the best god-damm rear shock absorber made in the entire univ.........that only spoilt rich fucks can afford.) Drew has to pay the price for his wide entry & starts to run wide from the apex & thus limits his ability to put down his prodigious horsepower (& talent) to the ground. Williams is apexing later & has it pinned to the stops. Williams sneaks the lead by a bike length on the exit & runs "un-intentionaly wide" to screw up Drews exit line, - but Drew's seen these sneaky tricks from Williams before & stays on the gas whilst riding the white line on the edge of the track with gay abandon. Drews 80hp is now paying back bigtime & he's hauling up on williams at a great rate of knots, The finish line looms & ....................................


The end of this story will be provided at some later date.

[codgyoleracer]

Poo's - are you back on the dole agian ?, I can only assume so as you have time to dredge up stuff this old.............

[Big Dave]

Nice dredge.

I say we hock 'em both, take the proceeds down sky city and let it ride on red long enough to buy a F4 1000.

[wharfy]

The One lap race goes like this:
Drew takes full advantage of his lighter weight & higher horsepower machine & gets the jump of the line at Manfield. At the same moment another silver K3 SV650 is spotted starting at the pitlane track entrance & tipping into the first corner (its Gary H, pulling a sneaky on the boys). Gary leades into the esses with drew 100m behind & Glen still incredibly trailing another 15 behind that after being sidetracked by drews missus standing on the outside of turn one & flashing him. Gary makes a hash of the infield left hander & Drew runs to far to the inside & looses the front on the white line. Fortunatly he is so full of pure & unadulterated talent (just like his brother) he manages to catch it on his knee for about a 20ft front end slidee. Williams sneaks up another 5mtrs on him. Gary H enters the hairpin but cant carry the corner speed because he's got both tyres fitted backwards (to save a few bucks). Drew & Williams get within 25mtrs of him. The sheer power of the Drew bike now takes control & he pulls most of this gap back on Gary by Higgins. The sly fox Williams has managed to catch Drews slipstream & Drew unbeknown has dragged Glens old arse along with him up the same straight. Drew goes for the big "up the inside pass" on Gary H into Higgins, but screws it up - because his mostly stock front forks bottom out & he skips past Gary & runs wide. (whilst up at the top of the corner - he takes the opportunity to check the trench that Jimmy dug there a few months ago in the dirt). Gary H, see's this as his opportunity & is already reading the headlines in the paper about his big win. The codgy old fart Williams is yet to make a mistake though & waits (for what seems an eternity) for Gary H to get on the gas (& get out of the way through Higgins) & then passes him easily on the inside exiting Higgins. (this is due to the sheer drive provided by the best god-damm shock absorber ever made in the entire known universe - The Trex Ohlins of course & has ABSOLUTLY nothing to do with rider abilty). In the meantime Drews wide line has actually allowed him to run a very quick high exit line & he blows by Gary H with smoke pouring of the rear tyre , whilst being sideways & on one wheel, + taking time to flick GaryH the bird.
Williams has a 7 mtr lead out of higgins over Drew - whilst Gary with tears in his eyes "does a Biaggi" & starts looking down at his machine (hoping to find a fault or excuse for later on).
Drew's stonking engine rails him up behind Williams & he passes him on the outside into the final sweeper, its the type of move made by the young & exuberant - however it sticks & he cuts back across the front wheel of Williams with inches to spare. (or so he thinks.....) . Williams saw the move early enough to shut the gas & run himself up a little wider in the corner & go for the supreme drive out of the corner. (once again taking advantage of the best god-damm rear shock absorber made in the entire univ.........that only spoilt rich fucks can afford.) Drew has to pay the price for his wide entry & starts to run wide from the apex & thus limits his ability to put down his prodigious horsepower (& talent) to the ground. Williams is apexing later & has it pinned to the stops. Williams sneaks the lead by a bike length on the exit & runs "un-intentionaly wide" to screw up Drews exit line, - but Drew's seen these sneaky tricks from Williams before & stays on the gas whilst riding the white line on the edge of the track with gay abandon. Drews 80hp is now paying back bigtime & he's hauling up on williams at a great rate of knots, The finish line looms & ....................................


The end of this story will be provided at some later date.

A ripping yarn !!! - Love it :)

[Robert Taylor]

The best power, best handling, best rider and best reliability is the most preferable cocktail.

Theres more than an element of truth in Pirellis clever slogan ''power is nothing without control'' Having power and control is great.

[Robert Taylor]

An interesting sidebar to this thread is that we have now built in excess of 20 TTX36 for SV650s , on the strength of Glens request to custom build one in the first place. I am not aware of any other market in the world that uses these for racing SV650s, ( they dont exist in TTX format ex Ohlins for that model ) Having said all that we have a really good spec for the ''conventional '' Ohlins listing or donor Ohlins shocks from GSXRs etc, better again with the installation of a top out spring for more rear end stability under braking. Riders such as Rob Berrington Smith and Dean Bentley have been going well on the latest renditions of internal valving settings.
In the States it will be predominantly Penske that is used and they do a few things in their designs that are quite clever. Does anyone know what is used in other markets that race SV650s?
Development on the emulators has gone about as far as it can go and they definitely work a lot better if you ditch the stock damper rods and replace them with Traxxion rods. These rods are actually straight and are tighter toleranced so that there is rather less uncontrolled bleed. Its awful to look down a lot of forks and see just how badly aligned many damper rods are.

[AllanB]

Got a couple of questions before I can comment:

1. what type of oil are they running - synthetic or dino?

2. what type of pies are we talking about here?

(OK just quietly I think bike A. will end up over the start line first due to superior cornering speeds, but if I'm honest I'd rather be entertained by 20 bike B's on the grid head-tossing and pulling wheelies to the end of the race!)

[cowpoos]

An interesting sidebar to this thread is that we have now built in excess of 20 TTX36 for SV650s , on the strength of Glens request to custom build one in the first place. I am not aware of any other market in the world that uses these for racing SV650s, ( they dont exist in TTX format ex Ohlins for that model ) Having said all that we have a really good spec for the ''conventional '' Ohlins listing or donor Ohlins shocks from GSXRs etc, better again with the installation of a top out spring for more rear end stability under braking. Riders such as Rob Berrington Smith and Dean Bentley have been going well on the latest renditions of internal valving settings.
In the States it will be predominantly Penske that is used and they do a few things in their designs that are quite clever. Does anyone know what is used in other markets that race SV650s?
Development on the emulators has gone about as far as it can go and they definitely work a lot better if you ditch the stock damper rods and replace them with Traxxion rods. These rods are actually straight and are tighter toleranced so that there is rather less uncontrolled bleed. Its awful to look down a lot of forks and see just how badly aligned many damper rods are.

Canada race SV 650's

I wonder if you could cram a 20mm traxxion cartridge inside a sv 650 fork?? with a little clever modification?

[Pussy]

I wonder if you could cram a 20mm traxxion cartridge inside a sv 650 fork?? with a little clever modification?

It's been done.... even here in NZ!
Watch this space, Poos..... seen another neat little SV mod in the making.....

[Drew]

Perhaps apt timing for the dredge Poos, since I'm on an SV again now. It has a standard motor that has done 70,000 k's, and all the suspension done up short of sticking in the TTX.

[codgyoleracer]

An interesting sidebar to this thread is that we have now built in excess of 20 TTX36 for SV650s , on the strength of Glens request to custom build one in the first place. I am not aware of any other market in the world that uses these for racing SV650s, ( they dont exist in TTX format ex Ohlins for that model ) Having said all that we have a really good spec for the ''conventional '' Ohlins listing or donor Ohlins shocks from GSXRs etc, better again with the installation of a top out spring for more rear end stability under braking. Riders such as Rob Berrington Smith and Dean Bentley have been going well on the latest renditions of internal valving settings.
In the States it will be predominantly Penske that is used and they do a few things in their designs that are quite clever. Does anyone know what is used in other markets that race SV650s?
Development on the emulators has gone about as far as it can go and they definitely work a lot better if you ditch the stock damper rods and replace them with Traxxion rods. These rods are actually straight and are tighter toleranced so that there is rather less uncontrolled bleed. Its awful to look down a lot of forks and see just how badly aligned many damper rods are.


Lotsa differnet stuff is banged into the back of the SV's overseas Rob, - But Ohlins, Penske , WP tend to dominate.
The TTX was a step forward in bike control for the SV , but oddly enough the old 46 series Ohlins (if it was dialled in right) was still very very good. It was just a little harder to find "the zone" on the 46 series for any given track/condition.
IMO , the TTX is more forgiving 'generally' in this respect and thus has stayed on my F3 bike pretty much ever since it went in.
For folks building any trick SV's there might be some worthwhile gains in playing with linkage ratios to optimise the rear absorber performance, certain tracks appear to highlight this and its tricky for (any) absorber to work in those conditions.
Comments Rob ?

[cowpoos]

Perhaps apt timing for the dredge Poos, since I'm on an SV again now. It has a standard motor that has done 70,000 k's, and all the suspension done up short of sticking in the TTX.

To behonest...I had this thread saved in my favorites...and I couldn't remember wy till I clicked on it....it was where my signature came from :)

[Robert Taylor]

Lotsa differnet stuff is banged into the back of the SV's overseas Rob, - But Ohlins, Penske , WP tend to dominate.
The TTX was a step forward in bike control for the SV , but oddly enough the old 46 series Ohlins (if it was dialled in right) was still very very good. It was just a little harder to find "the zone" on the 46 series for any given track/condition.
IMO , the TTX is more forgiving 'generally' in this respect and thus has stayed on my F3 bike pretty much ever since it went in.
For folks building any trick SV's there might be some worthwhile gains in playing with linkage ratios to optimise the rear absorber performance, certain tracks appear to highlight this and its tricky for (any) absorber to work in those conditions.
Comments Rob ?

We have actually never mapped the link curve on the SVs and they seem to like a fairly agressive valving spec on compression and lots of ride height in the rear, in part to stop too much acceleration squat but also to ''decommuterise'' the lazy steering.

Yes indeed the old 46PRCL /PRX still works very well on those as long as apples fpr apples they have a top out spring and the valving is very specific , in that instance we now have a very well developed spec for those older models of shock.

And yes its a little more time consuming to revalve ( etc ) the old 46mm shocks compared to the TTX36. We can revalve these in as little as 10 mins but realistically the old 46mm ones 20 mins if you really go for it and have everything ready , more like 30-40 minutes inclusive of a PROPER bleed job. That includes time to allow the bubbles to disperse out of the oil, that dosent happen instantly, unless you are happily sloppy in your work. Show me the man who says he can do it in 15 to 20 mins ( and do a PROPER job) and Ill walk on water as well.

But apples for apples the TTX36 is the better weapon in your armoury in terms of overall performance and ease of setting changes.

We do have some more refined valving specs and also some new and better pistons that we successfully developed with Geoff Booth and Terry Fitz over the season, available to CKT customers. We pretty much used two alternate valving specs and 3 spring rates all season to optimise as much as possible.

For god knows whatever perverse or self serving reasons I get criticised by some for forever having shocks and fork cartridges apart, in fact a great part of the reason why is we are forever trying new settings and also new stuff that the factory sends us. We also race with new stuff before anyone else in the world and one example was NIX30 front fork kits.

The settings were less than ideal for our low grip bumpy tracks when we got them but we relentlessly worked on them andconsequently have a base setting that works very very well. Andrew Stroud raced on NIX25s up to and including the last South Island round. He was very very happy with them and the results confirmed that. We then installed well tested / developed NIX30 in his forks and he immediately said they were better again and raced on them at Manfield and HD.

I have been told that there is some negative feedback on overseas forums about NIX30 ( although there is much more very positive feedback generally ) This sort of thing always happens when they are sold by outlets and there is zero trackside backup to optimise, especially in the States and many European countries. Trackside backup is neccessary to unlock the full potential of any suspension units.

[Peter Smith]

A good handling bike will do quicker lap times, but a more powerful bike is hard to pass if it gets in front. And you'd need to have a good gap once past to prevent him sneaking past again on the straights.

Go GLEN!!!!!

[suzuki21]

A good handling bike will do quicker lap times, but a more powerful bike is hard to pass if it gets in front. And you'd need to have a good gap once past to prevent him sneaking past again on the straights.

Go GLEN!!!!!

I agree Peter, remember the v-twin Aprillia gp bike? Done fast qualifying times but come race time the 500's were holding it up in corners and puffing it on the straights, it couldnt quite get close enough for out braking.

[scracha]

Drew goes balls out, pulls a wheelie until the first corner and backs it in blocking Glens bike. He maintains his lead whilst powersliding through turn two. Glen being the wise old fox follows right up his chuff until he gets the chance to pounce. Drew then :-

a) kills the bike by turn 4
b) lowsides on the final turn and comes in blaming his forks
c) coasts to the side of the track before turn 4 complaining of a hangover
d) highsides so badly out of higgins it flies over the tyre wall but Drew manages to remount and wobble back into the pits to a huge cheer.
e) has brake failure at the end of the back straight
f) continues to whip his ass :innocent:

Oh...can we have a vote?

Fuck...there's so many possibilities but I could never see Drew simply setting for 2nd.

[FROSTY]

Of course all of this is happening well BEHIND the Ozzie 450 carefully prepped to suit the conditions and ridden by a certain young wellytown racer.

[scracha]

Of course all of this is happening well BEHIND the Ozzie 450 carefully prepped to suit the conditions and ridden by a certain young wellytown racer.

Oh shit. I forgot
g) they get black flagged and booted from the meeting for burgling pro-twins instead of entering F3.